/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11630549]

Just finished pic related. I don't understand the endless praise. This is really just coming-of-age plus entry-level existentialism matched with some pretty silly and conceptually self-defeating aesthetics.
Is this all they have? When will visual media catch up, /lit/?

[Anonymous No.11630563]

>>11630549
Watch Haibane Renmei instead and behold the true potential of anime

[Anonymous No.11630572]

>>11630549
Watch legend of the galactic heroes

[Anonymous No.11630573]

>>11630549
You need to watch the movie to get the real ending. Creators of series ran out of money and thats why it has some random BS ending instead of the real one.
Then they got more money and made the movie that has correct ending.

[Anonymous No.11630578]

>>11630573
Not that the real ending is much better...

[Anonymous No.11630580]

That's about all you're ever going to get from anime. Some mediums just won't ever produce anything great.

[Anonymous No.11630582]

>>11630549
Stop being afraid to connect anon

[Anonymous No.11630585]

>>>/a

[Anonymous No.11630589]

>>11630563
This. + almost anything by Mamoru Oshii. I recomend Gozenzo-sama Babanzai and Angel's Egg.

>>11630572
No.

[Anonymous No.11630591]

>>11630573
>the TV ending is random BS and not a "real ending"
retard.

[Anonymous No.11630594]

>>11630573
>You need to watch the movie to get the real ending.
This is an urban myth within the American fanbase. The real ending is the TV ending. EoE is a retcon.

[Anonymous No.11630595]

>>11630594
retard. Both endings are canon.

[Anonymous No.11630602]

>>11630595
They're alternate timelines, like in a branching storyline in an interactive novel.

[Anonymous No.11630611]

>>11630573
This. End of Evangelion is one of the greatest things ever. But if you didn’t like the regular episodes, I don’t think it would do much.
>>11630589
Seconding Angel’s Egg.

[Anonymous No.11630613]

you watch the series in order to watch end of evangelion in the same way that you watch the first two series of twin peaks in order to watch the movie and the return

[Anonymous No.11630614]

>>11630611
>End of Evangelion is one of the greatest things ever.

wew

[Anonymous No.11630615]

>>11630602
No!
The television ending is Shinji's (and others) personal experience inside Instrumentality and EoE is mostly the physical events before, during and after Instrumentality.
They both fit within the timeline.

[Anonymous No.11630622]

>>11630615
Stop regurgitating moronic fanwank cooked up on evageeks retard.
None of it is true.

[Anonymous No.11630623]

>>11630549

>This is really just coming-of-age plus entry-level existentialism matched with some pretty silly and conceptually self-defeating aesthetics.

Definitely is but I admire the excess. It's like those overwrought blockbusters that almost tanked Hollywood in the late 70s (Heaven's Gate, etc). Or Shohei Imamura's Profound Desires of the Gods in Japan. Conceptual stuff like that isn't allowed money but at some points in time it has been and results have been magnificently self-indulgent.

[Anonymous No.11630648]

>>11630623
Please write in coherent English

[Anonymous No.11630659]

>>11630622
It is though.

[Anonymous No.11630662]

>>11630614
Prove me wrong

[Anonymous No.11630723]

>>11630573
>some random BS ending
Faggot

[Anonymous No.11630776]

>>11630648
fuck off to plebbit moron

[Anonymous No.11630810]

>>11630573
Don't normally watch anime but was memed into NGE. Couldn't bring myself to watch the movie after seeing the TV series. The ending was such a pseud philosophy undergrad clusterfuck it'll take a lot of convincing to watch any more Chinese cartoons lauded here.

[Anonymous No.11630838]

>>11630622
I personally haven't read any fan theories, but it seems pretty obvious that it is the case, given how the last two episodes reference events of EoE.

[Anonymous No.11630872]

>>11630838
You're retarded, and you most definitely got this idea from evageeks, either directly or indirectly through some other stupid /a/non.

[Anonymous No.11630894]

>>11630659
The two narratives are inconsistent at many points. And if that weren't enough, official interviews disprove this retarded idea. This whole concurrency bullshit started in the American fandom when some of the idiots who worked on the localisation came up with a similar angle in order to market EoE ("this is THE REAL ending, you have to see this!"), and the idea was elaborated upon (or more accurately, the fanwank grew in intensity) on evageeks in the early 2000s.

[Anonymous No.11630925]

>>11630563
t. Murakami

[Anonymous No.11630927]

Amazing series, but Gravity's Rainbow is better

[Anonymous No.11630936]

>>11630894
>on evageeks in the early 2000s.
That is, before 4chan even existed. That's where /a/ took it from, and with /a/ the fanwank reached the current state of affairs where almost everyone peddles this bullshit.
All this shit from a stupid AD Vision marketing pitch in the US in the late 1990s.

[Anonymous No.11630937]

>>11630549

[Anonymous No.11630950]

>>11630894
>The two narratives are inconsistent at many points
Not really...

[Anonymous No.11630956]

Can someone explain to me the appeal of entry level existentialism when real existentialism is the go-to shorthand for coding a character as pseudointellectual?
And don't people get sick of every Chinese cartoon telling them the same thing over and over again?

[Anonymous No.11630960]

>>11630956
It's an anime, not a philosophy text...

And it's beautiful

[Anonymous No.11630984]

>>11630614
Yes it is
Nobody can even pretend convincently that EOE is one the greatest audiovisual experiences ever

[Anonymous No.11630988]

>>11630936
Many people interpret the endings in this "fanwank" way without ever reading the fan theories. The inconsistancies you mention aren't too difficult to reconcile if you accept that the show's ending is shinji's subjective and internal experience, while the movie shows all of instrumentality.

[Anonymous No.11631003]

>>11630950
Wrong.

[Anonymous No.11631013]

>>11630988
Many people believe this fanwank because it is now ingrained in the milieu of the English fandom. Almost no one believed this between 1997 and 1999.

[Anonymous No.11631018]

>>11631003
Prove it then

The only thing that comes to my mind is how misato reacts to Shinji watching her and Kaji during instrumentality

[Anonymous No.11631023]

>>11631013
That's because nobody had seen it then

[Anonymous No.11631035]

>>11631023
I and plenty of others had. Almost no one in Japan believes this theory even today, because they weren't exposed to ADV films' marketing.

[Anonymous No.11631043]

>>11630549
Watch Gundam 1979 and Zeta Gundam. Tomino is the Shakespeare of anime.

[Anonymous No.11631046]

>>11631003
As a bystander, you've kind of just been saying "no" this whole time without providing any argument and look like a moron.

[Anonymous No.11631156]

>>11630872
As I already told you, I do neither spend time in anime communities, nor do I go hunting for silly fan theories.
Now, can you explain why those two episodes reference things happening in EoE, e.g. Misato and that other woman laying dead, or souls being united?

[Anonymous No.11631163]

>>11631156
Asuka at the bottom of the bay

[Anonymous No.11631273]

>>11631046
The "TV ending and EoE are different" are just a step above the retardation of the people who obsess over the Christian symbolism. Both the endings are saying the same thing but one can only literally tell it to you where as the other works it into the narrative. The "congratulations" ending is Shinji's acceptance and realizing the people around him don't truly hate him. This is the part in EoE where Lilith starts falling apart and Unit 01 snaps the Lance. The TV ending even has the part that says "To my mother, goodbye" since she's floating off into space.

[Anonymous No.11631309]

>>11630549
Your problem is that your evaluation ends with the narrative. When you process it as a work of animation and not just "a cartoon that tells me a story" your understanding will broaden. No guarantees you'll end up loving if of course.

Number one fucking mistake of everyone watching anything, stop treating it as if the narrative is the only important part. You don't just READ Shakespeare, you watch it and develop an appreciation for it as a stageplay. EVA is a work of animation that poured out Anno's heart and was everything he loved, and the way he shows his thoughts to you is what makes it so great. He showed mastery of his medium in his correspondence with the viewer.

[Anonymous No.11631335]

>>11630549
>conceptually self-defeating aesthetics
what does this even mean

[Anonymous No.11631427]

>>11631335
Pretentious bullshit to throw up a facade of intelligence, I do the same but in the safe arms of irony.

[The Nomad !N8Yn.I/WbM No.11631573]

>>11630549
>/lit/ can’t into expressive direction and clever cinematography

[Anonymous No.11631669]

>>11630956
>pseudointellectual
only retards use this word, prove me wrong

[Anonymous No.11631716]

>>11631156
Similar things happen in similar, but distinct, story-lines.
There's nothing to explain.

[Anonymous No.11631722]

>>11631273
>hurr durr

[Anonymous No.11631740]

>>11631716
>it's different guys, trust me!

lol

[Anonymous No.11631759]

>>11631273
This. The TV ending is internal while the movie ending is showing the external events happening at Nerv HQ. They're the same ending.

[Anonymous No.11631761]

>>11631740
Are you retarded? There are several inconsistencies between the two timelines, like Akagi's death. (She gets shot in the back in one continuity, but in another she's shot in the chest after she tries to shoot first).

You're fucking delusional or inattentive as fuck.

>>11631046
Don't samefag.

[Anonymous No.11631766]

>>11631759
Literally contradicted by Anno and Tsurumaki in interviews, official booklets, you name

>inb4 death of the author because my fanwank > the real story

[Anonymous No.11631772]

>>11631766
prove it then faggot

[Anonymous No.11631785]

>>11631766
Don't care. I don't trust the creator of something if my own view of it makes perfect sense.

[Anonymous No.11631786]

>>11631772
From the Platinum Collection booklets:

>Thus, the story of Eva would branch into two stories with the diverging point being the end of Episode Twenty-Four "The Final Messenger." >The two stories each unfold differently and arrive at their own climaxes.
>It is not that one is the complete version and the other is incomplete. Just like the multiple endings of a game, two different endings were prepared for one story.
>Gendo uses Rei to execute the Human Instrumentality Project and the complementation of man begins.
>Gendo says, “All souls will become one and find eternal peace”. His Instrumentality Project must have been for all human souls to be combined as one and to compensate each other for what they have been deprived of. In the story that follows from Episode 25 “Air” to Episode 26 “A Pure Heart For You”, he was not able to execute the scenario he had drawn up. >It may be that it was in Episode Twenty-Five and Episode Twenty-Six that his wish actually came true.

>The moment that Shinji gains conviction that it is okay for him to be there, the background changes, and the blue Earth spreads beneath his feet. However, there are no continents on this Earth, and it is covered by a gigantic coral reef. It seems this is the Earth that has been transfigured by the Instrumentality Project.
>It is left for the audience to decide whether this ending is the Best Ending or the Bad Ending.

[Anonymous No.11631796]

>>11631785
lol, how predictable.

[Anonymous No.11631801]

>>11631786
The two being alternate timelines also fits in with the Rebuild of Evangelion remake, and how it seems (so far) to allude to multiple timelines (especially in Kaworu's dialogue).

[Anonymous No.11631814]

From the pamphlet that was sold in Japanese theatres when EoE was released:

>Thus, the story of Evangelion branches into two after the last scene of episode 24. There is one ending as shown in TV episodes 25 and 26, while episodes 25' and 26' as shown in "THE END OF EVANGELION" are another ending.

[Anonymous No.11631828]

from an April 14, 1996 radio interview with Anno:

>Hayashibara: So there will be two episode 25s.
>Anno: Right, it will be a multi-ending.
>Hayashibara: So, a dual... ah, a multi-ending. >After episode 24 the endings will diverge.
>Anno: Right.
>Hayashibara: There will be two of them.
>Anno: There will be two of them.
>Hayashibara: Ah, two endings.
>Anno: Yes.
>Hayashibara: In terms of gaming - is it called a simulation game? What do you call it? The ending for that [particular] self changes as you go on [through the game].
>Anno: Right, a multi-ending [game].

[Anonymous No.11631829]

>>11631796
And? So because Anno says something that means I have to view the show that way? Why?

[Anonymous No.11631834]

>>11631829
You're free to be as retarded as you want.

[Anonymous No.11631845]

>>11631761
>like Akagi's death. (She gets shot in the back in one continuity, but in another she's shot in the chest after she tries to shoot first)

Utterly and completely irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.11631846]

More narrative contradictions:

>Rei is never shown to betray Gendo in EoTV, a massive plot element in EoE
>Gendo is shown as both the initiator and controller of Instrumentality in EoTV, whereas whether he even enters it in EoE is ambigous
>Shinji's decisions in EoTV are never shown as affecting anyone other than himself
>Ritsuko seems in favour of Instrumentality in EoTV, but in EoE she is willing to prevent it.
>Shinji communicates with the entirety of the cast in EoTV, but only with Rei and Kaworu (who isn't present in EoTV) in EoE.

[Anonymous No.11631851]

>>11631845
>prove it
>...
>t-the evidence i-is irrelevant
>w-who cares about narrative inconsistencies?

[Anonymous No.11631855]

God, this thread fucking stinks.

[Anonymous No.11631857]

>>11630615
Why does the show end with Shinji smiling and people clapping saying “GOOD JOB!” but in EoE he’s on a beach choking asuka?

[Anonymous No.11631862]

>>11631857
Because they're different endings/different timelines.

[Anonymous No.11631865]

>>11630573
Lol someone asked a member of Gainax who worked on Eva about this and they had no idea what they were talking about
I really despise that people see something unusual in films and chalk up their lack of understanding with it to something faulty on the creator’s part

[Anonymous No.11631866]

>>11631855
Evatards are cancer. I don't know why this thread is even on /lit/.

[Anonymous No.11631884]

>>11631761
That's called a retcon, sweetie

[Anonymous No.11631892]

>>11631884
>That's called a retcon
That's what I said. See >>11630594 and the ensuing discussion with the clueless Evatards.

[Anonymous No.11631895]

>>11631759
I felt like this too when I watched it

[Anonymous No.11631897]

>>11631761
>bullets can’t enter and leave bodies

[Anonymous No.11631903]

>>11631892
no you said all of EoE was a retcon, im just talking about that scene

[Anonymous No.11631906]

>>11631857
Because EoE ends after the moment of self-enlightment

[Anonymous No.11631911]

>>11631897
>in one version she's floating face down
>in another she's floating face up
Also, a 9mm won't pass through like you assume.
And that's not the only difference between the two endings. See >>11631846

[Anonymous No.11631912]

>>11630549
>This is really just coming-of-age plus entry-level existentialism matched with some pretty silly and conceptually self-defeating aesthetics.
Yeah, pretty deep for a medium which usually doesn't goes much deeper then "cute X wants to do cute thing Y but there is obstacle Z".

[Anonymous No.11631918]

>>11631903
Because all of it is a retcon. Here >>11631828 straight from the horse's mouth.

[Anonymous No.11631922]

>>11631911
again, just minor differences that don't actually mean anything in the grand scheme of things.

>>11631918
That's not what a retcon is

[Anonymous No.11631928]

>>11630549
>coming-of-age
except he just comes in his own hand, that doesn't count

[Anonymous No.11631934]

>>11631922
>just minor differences
They're not minor, and even if they were, they're differences, so the two endings cannot happen in the same timeline.
Whether the thematic content of the two endings is in some sense congruent is another matter entirely.

Anyway, I made my point, so it's time for me to bow out.
Hopefully the mods get off their asses and move this to /a/ or something.

[Anonymous No.11631948]

>>11630549
The production and direction is incredible for anime and television in general. It’s an over-rated show but under-rated in the sense that only weebs with weeb interests and tastes appreciate it. The way the aesthetic and style bores itself into your brain... people who criticise the symbolism for being “meaningless” are missing the point. It’s not for analysis or contemplation. It’s soul-rapingly evocative. The show is experience. It leaves you with a memory. Not a set of ideas so much as a montage of images, puddly moments. Childhood recollection. Afterlife anticipation.

[Anonymous No.11631970]

>>11631846
>Rei is never shown to betray Gendo
She starts betraying him all the way back in episode 19, when she kamikazes against the angel.
>Gendo is shown as both the initiator and controller of instrumentality
It’s clear that instrumentality is in Shinji’s control by episode 26
>Shinji’s decisions in EoTV are never shown as affecting anyone other than himself
What about when Misato has an emotional breakdown over him seeing her have sex in episode 25? Just one example
>Ritsuko seems in favor of instrumentality
Did you forget about episode 23, where she’s raped, and destroys all of the other Rei’s? She starts going against Gendo’s plan at that point
>Shinji communicates with the entirety of the cast in EoTV, but only with Rei and Kaworu (who isn't present in EoTV) in EoE.
This is the only one I’ll give you, but it doesn’t do anything to prove that the endings arent complementary. Also, Kaworu is in episode 25, which begins with Shinji having to confront his reasons for killing Kaworu

[Anonymous No.11631973]

>>11631934
>They're not minor
yes they are

[Anonymous No.11631981]

>>11631911
A 9mm wouldn’t knock someone off their feet and send them flying several feet, but it’s an anime

[Anonymous No.11631999]

>>11631857
They both have the same subtext. People other than Shinji see his worst aspects and accept him for the first time in his life.

[Anonymous No.11632015]

>>11631981
also this is The Future. Maybe 9mm guns have more stopping power

[Anonymous No.11632061]

Thinking that EoE and the TV ending are concurrent is small time in Eva fanwank.

Some people think that Shinji is bi, or that it was a show about government conspiracies

[Anonymous No.11632066]

>>11632061
SEELE are Kabbalists and Keel Lorenz is named off a real person

[Anonymous No.11632068]

>>11632061
Turning raw human experience into category pop culture epolitics... pure evil..

[Anonymous No.11632078]

>>11631928
Yes, but the age of Shinji and Asuka is important in that context.

[Anonymous No.11632087]

>>11632061
I mean, he really liked Kawrou

[Anonymous No.11632100]

>>11632087
>all love is romantic
Cmon anon, context

[Anonymous No.11632101]

>>11632100
uh, did you watch the show? :3

[Anonymous No.11632103]

>>11632087
Angry extroverted queers who watch buffy will emphasise it and turn it ugly. Butthurt hetero poltards and insecure weebs will deny it and embarrass themselves.

[Anonymous No.11632109]

>>11632101
Yes, but I took my fujo-glasses off when it started and put them back on after it ended.

If you want gay Shinji watch the Rebuild movie

[Anonymous No.11632118]

>>11632109
I mean, say what you will, but it's hardly a stretch

[Anonymous No.11632124]

>>11631335
If you need this to be explained you are linguistically retarded.

[Anonymous No.11632141]

>that boomer who became christian because of evangelion

[Anonymous No.11632146]

>>11630595
>>11630615
>>11630659

There is absolutely nothing confirming this. The two endings do not match up and there is nothing indicating that they take place "at the same time" or nested within one another.

>The inconsistencies you mention aren't too difficult to reconcile

But why do we have to reconcile them? It's on you to show that they are supposed to be sides of the same coin as opposed to alternative takes on events.

>>11631786
Shit like this is why I can't stand the Eva fan community.

[Anonymous No.11632152]

>>11630549
>"Is this all they have? When will visual media catch up, /lit/?"
>checks some Taiwanese shadow plays instead of some kino

NGE is pretty lit, thou

[Anonymous No.11632153]

I tried watching this series, because my brother is really into anime, and I heard this praised a lot. Holy shit it's trash. I really want to find some anime that I'll actually like, but this literally(literally) made me nauseous.
I do really want to find just one anime that I'll like.

[Anonymous No.11632155]

>>11632153
what's the matter 2deep4u?

[Anonymous No.11632176]

>>11632141
>>11630563
The Protestant NGE, the Catholic Haibane Renmei

[Anonymous No.11632199]

>>11630927
he is so based

[Anonymous No.11632219]

>>11631716
Are you going to explain why or should I take your word for it?

[Anonymous No.11632233]

>>11632153
>but this literally(literally) made me nauseous.

I understand, really. It really is extremely uncomfortable to watch, and it's precisely this excess of 'sickness', this completely lack of willingness to portray things that aren't toxic without irony that makes me despise it.

I genuinely don't understand what it is that makes people like it. This isn't because I don't see what might be called its merits, but because I'm so viscerally affected by them, by the attempts to make me share in the characters' feelings of guilt, regret, jealousy and apathy, that it just repulses me. And, again, it isn't because I cannot stomach works which heavily use negative feelings to drive them, like tragedy does, but it seems to deliberately offer no respite from assaulting you with a confusing mess of occurrences that leave you without any means of escaping the discomfort they naturally produce or converting it into positive emotion or understanding.

[Anonymous No.11632239]

>normal book thread
>2 replies in two hours
>evangelion thread
>100 replies in no time
/lit/

[Anonymous No.11632305]

>>11632219
Are you only pretending to be retarded? Read the thread.

[Anonymous No.11632359]

>>11632233
What you’ve said sounds very similar to a friend of mine who disliked Evangelion (he only watched EoE), as he summarized it as “depression sucks”. On the other hand, I loved NGE and didn’t suffer or even get upset while watching it. I was mostly in awe the entire time by how engrossing the presentation was and I quickly understood that focusing on the plot would make me miss the show’s essence. Even before getting to the positive ending, the sincerity and passion of the series made it feel uplifting for me. The feeling I got from it was that it was about a young man struggling with the self, and that while some of the other characters were far too gone to be saved (Ritsuko, Misato, etc), Shinji’s suffering was always for a constructive purpose. I don’t think the series offers much on suffering itself, but rather, finding meaning

[Anonymous No.11632410]

>Talked about every single day across multiple cultures for the past 20 years

>Meh, I didn't really care for it. Not that good.

Eva and EoE will outlive any of us or any of our works. Very likely it'll be considered an artistic classic of our time. Anyone would be completely delusional to believe otherwise.

[Anonymous No.11632450]

>>11632410
I agree with you, but you could say the same thing about harry Potter

[Anonymous No.11632504]

>>11632450
That's quite true. Though I would suspect that something like Harry Potter will fizzle out of pop culture as generations pass or a new children's book fad shows up, not being remembered as a classic novel or artwork.

I think the difference is EoE will be remembered for its artistic impact on the medium. If Bob Dylan can receive a Nobel then I see no reason why Hideaki Anno could not.

[Anonymous No.11632535]

>>11632176
This

[Anonymous No.11632574]

>>11632410
Nice ad populum and, before you stop me, nice implicit appeal to authority.
Anime is in-vogue right now, it's a cultural phenomenon. Eva is currently the medium's "final boss", or at least share's the title as one of several near-pedagogically selected titles. However, it's the final boss of an easy game.

[Anonymous No.11633187]

I wonder what the consensus on Death Note is.

[Anonymous No.11633297]

>>11632176
I'd read the shit out of that

[Anonymous No.11633456]

>>11630573
If anything EoE is an extended version of the regular ending, with the opposite happening before the very end in EoE.

[Anonymous No.11633463]

>>11631772
If you actually watched both you would have realized that in the series Shinji gets over himself and sticks with instrumentality while in EoE he rejects it.

[Anonymous No.11633481]

>>11630549
brainlet