/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11599849]

>never work a day of your life
>write non-stop about work
was it autism?

[Anonymous No.11599871]

Hegelianism. Tends to make you think if you understand something you understand everything.

[Anonymous No.11599873]

he was an odd duck

[Anonymous No.11599880]

>>11599849
>brainlet who thinks economics is "abstract"
Millions of people have bought his books, ergo socially necessary labour

[Anonymous No.11599887]

>>11599880
>brainlet who thinks doing something for no pay is work
Seethe harder lad.

[Anonymous No.11599894]

>never work
>write non-stop

hmmm....

[Anonymous No.11599897]

He was extremely insecure and had to write endless justifications for why he didn’t want a job

[Anonymous No.11599903]

>>11599887
man you're dumb. what do you do if you feel like making your lawn look better. you WORK in the yard, for no pay. you go WORK outside to improve it without anyone paying you to. work does not imply pay

[Anonymous No.11599906]

>>11599849
>Intellectual work isn't work
huge win in the battlefield of ideas yet again

[Anonymous No.11599908]

>>11599894
His children literally starved to death because he had no income. Writing as a hobby =/= work.

[Anonymous No.11599915]

>>11599903
>you work for free!
Underage retard detected. Doing something for yourself is not work brainlet.

[Anonymous No.11599923]

But he was a journalist that got paid for his articles

[Anonymous No.11599929]

>>11599923
He mostly lived off donations from his friend Engels. A factory owner. Marx was a bit of a hypocrite.

[Anonymous No.11599941]

>>11599915
"i'm working on a project."
the word sure can be used that way

[Anonymous No.11599948]

>tankies rush the thread to debate the semantics of the word work because the facts of Marx's "career" are so embarrassing
every time

[Anonymous No.11599952]

>>11599929
Did he ever inherit it? The the section on his life on the wikipedia only mentions the following.
>Meanwhile, at the mill owned by his father in Manchester, Engels started working as an office clerk, the same position he held in his teens while in Germany where his father's company was based. However, Friedrich worked his way up to become a partner of the firm in 1864.

Also has anyone read The Condition of the Working Class in England? I've never read anything by Engels specifically.

[Anonymous No.11599955]

>>11599941
If someone was to tell me they were working on a project I would automatically assume they were referring to their job.

[Anonymous No.11599968]

>>11599948
>gets BTFO
>b...but much tankies
Embrassing to still see people who can’t separate the man from his work.

[Anonymous No.11600024]

>>11599908
>if someone else doesn't pay you, it isn't real work
Imagine being this classcucked.

[Anonymous No.11600057]

>>11599929
>"""""a bit of a"""""

[Anonymous No.11600061]

>>11599955
hobby type projects exist. You could be working on a painting or working on a novel

[Anonymous No.11600076]

>>11599929
>rich socialists are hypocrites
>poor socialists are just jealous

Fuck off and die

[Anonymous No.11600088]

>>11600024
It is obvious, anon. A CEO that goes to business lunches and decides which action proposed by his subordinate to follow works infinitely harder than a volunteer.

[Anonymous No.11600095]

>>11600076
You sound like a poor socialist

[Anonymous No.11600101]

hurr aren't we super clever for learning that that going to work kinda sucks ? Now here's why your children should be gay

[Anonymous No.11600112]

>>11600101
jesus christ marxism btfo in 2 sentences

[Anonymous No.11600131]

>>11600076
Rich socialists are just schoolmarm concern trolls (savior complex), poor socialists are just cretinous imps consumed by envy (victim complex), both are unstoppable holiness signalers incapable of shame and they must all die.

[Anonymous No.11600146]

I write fallout fanfics for 8 hours a day. Is this work?

[Anonymous No.11600171]

>>11600146
it is according to Karl Marx. If you took 8 hours to write your retarded badly written fanfic you should be paid double for it than a professional who wrote the story in 4 hours

[Anonymous No.11600208]

>>11599849
pretty much

[Anonymous No.11600233]

>>11599849
I don't get this argument, how is non-stop writing not work?
>all you did was write the most influential political book of the next 100 years you bum

[Anonymous No.11600292]

>>11600233
book's are shit for fags

[Anonymous No.11600304]

The majority of Capitalists don't actually work either and just amass capital though inheritance, compound interest, or by skimming labour-value from people who actually do work.

Where did this myth that Captialists somehow work and earn their money come from?

[Anonymous No.11600306]

>>11599952
I’ve read parts of Condition of Tge Working Class in England. It gets a bit repetitive but basically conditions were pretty harsh.
It’s a free download on Project Gutenberg.

[Anonymous No.11600318]

Also he didn't write about work, he wrote about Capital. Labour has value and you can amass Capital from it, but labour and Capital are two different things.

Has anyone here actually read Marx?

[Anonymous No.11600337]

>>11600318
die you fucking bookfag

[Anonymous No.11600338]

>>11599929
Even if Marx was a hypocrite, that has no relevance whatsoever to his theories.

[Anonymous No.11600354]

>>11600304
>labour-value
you mean surplus value

[Anonymous No.11600370]

>>11599849

[Anonymous No.11600392]

>>11599849
go wage and find the time to write anything retard

[Anonymous No.11600399]

>>11599849
His analytical work was revolutionary and profound, and that is undeniable.

His predictive powers less so.

[Anonymous No.11601738]

>>11600171
You're either /leftypol/ false flagging to make anti-coms look bad or you're genuinely retarded and have no clue what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.11602021]

>>11600076
Look at him and laugh

[Anonymous No.11602124]

>>11602021
Why? He makes a solid point.

[Anonymous No.11602184]

>>11599929
Engel paid for food & shelter so he could become accredited in Marx' accomplished books. Engels even acknowledged it in a joking manner.

[Anonymous No.11602200]

>communists
worse than /pol/ I swear

[Anonymous No.11602208]

>>11599849
He wasn't nearly as autistic as the generations of revisionists that tried to retrofit his model to later developments in history and social science instead of coming up with original ideas.

[Anonymous No.11602261]

>>11600233
/lit/ hates communism not because they actually like the current system (the multitude of posts bemoaning the wagie lifestyle and unprofitability of literary fiction show that well enough), but because "socialism" (read: welfare maybe with some small nationalization of things like healthcare) is popular among normie 20-something liberals who they can't stand to share opinions with. You can tell this is the case because no one can actually give a real argument against socialism, they just yell about the soviet union and accuse others of being lazy. At the same time, whenever inherit fixtures of capitalism such as homogenized consumer culture are brought up /lit/ is quick to offer strong and more often than not sensible critiques that non-biased observers would quickly label as leftist. The result is a board that claims to be apolitical or above politics but is really one of the most left-wing boards on the site, at least when it comes to purely economic issues.

[Anonymous No.11602290]

>>11602184
Are you a joke? Engels wrote more than Marx concerning socialism, look at their collected works.
Engels was the true philosopher king here, he valued Marx as a bright mind but Engels was arguably more intelligent than him. He pay get his name on a fucking book. He might deserve more credit than Marx himself.

[Anonymous No.11602297]

>>11602290
>He pay get his name on a fucking book
He *didn't* pay to get his name on a fucking book.

[Anonymous No.11602298]

That's it. I'm becoming a plumber. Fuck this, fuck intellect. Fuck books.

[Anonymous No.11602334]

>>11599849
>studying and writing all day for years in an attempt to effect positive social change
>not work

I'm no Marxist but if you have to be an idiot to think he didn't work. Are you attempting to make the distinction between work and employment? I don't really get your point. Why would you shame someone for finding a way to do what he wants rather than doing some tedious job he doesn't care about?

[Anonymous No.11602379]

>>11599952
Yes. Engels father made him study economics and sent him to England specifically so he would hopefully cut ties with the Young Hegelians he was hanging around with but he ended up forming a lifelong collaboration with Marx who he introduced to political economy. Engels business administration experience played a central role that is often overlooked in Marxology. If you read their correspondences Marx is asking him all the time to look at their internal books to understand current standard accounting practises in enterprise.

>>11602290
>Engels was arguably more intelligent than him
No way and Engels would of never claimed that, quite the opposite. Engels just openly speculated on a lot of things with more confidence e.g. you see him in "Anti-Dühring", "Dialectics of Nature", etc overstepping a lot. He's a lot better of a writer than Marx though.

Marx planned to reorient his entire understanding of socio-economic development on the grounds of the emerging fields of ethnology/anthropology before he died, and you can see from his private ethnological notebooks he was much more critical than what Engels ended up producing in his "Origins of the Family" (largly just reiterating Lewis Henry Morgan uncritically).

[Anonymous No.11602413]

>>11602379
>Marx planned to reorient his entire understanding of socio-economic development on the grounds of the emerging fields of ethnology/anthropology before he died, and you can see from his private ethnological notebooks he was much more critical than what Engels ended up producing in his "Origins of the Family" (largly just reiterating Lewis Henry Morgan uncritically).
Care to elaborate on this? Do you think, had he finished it, that it might have had implications for the development and evolution of communism and socialism?

[Anonymous No.11602425]

>>11602290
I distinctly remember reading a passage from Engels from the collected works concerning why "Marxism" is named after Marx instead of him despite of his contributions to the theory.
It went something along the lines of, "Marx was a genius, and at best we could be considered talented, so I hold no reservations about the theory."

[Anonymous No.11602436]

>>11602298

It's pretty stupid to resign yourself to literal shit work just because you're adopting anti-intellectualism. That's slave morality. You CAN have it both ways, and many do. Plenty of businessmen and managers:

-make decent money,
-don't have to clean up dirty shit all the time, and
-spend their entire private lives following sports, posting on facebook,raising their kids, or any number of other hobbies that never ever involve reading a book or thinking for very long.

[Anonymous No.11602472]

>>11602425
Do you own the collected works?

[Anonymous No.11602476]

>>11602379
Good post.

[Anonymous No.11602485]

>>11602413
The Ethnological Notebooks weren't published until the 1970's. Yes if he had finished it into an actual work I think it would have been significant. A lot of concepts he was developing right before he died, specifically on Russia and populism, were dramatically at odds with Lenin. See: "Late Marx and the Russian Road".

[Anonymous No.11602499]

>>11602379
Marx tried to convince Engels that human races were product of soil types, with "young soils" being producing the most innovative peoples. He thought Tremaux was superior to Darwin, but luckily Engels shut him down there. If he had put Tremaux race theories into his grand theory a lot more people would've died stupidly in some deep-soil-maoist-like shenanigans.

[Anonymous No.11602506]

>>11602436
>>11602298
Plumbing is a good trade. Steady work, you can be your own boss, pay is good enough because not many people are jumping at the opportunity. And an industrial society simply cannot run without plumbers.

[Anonymous No.11602509]

>>11602485
would you mind briefly summarizing?

[Anonymous No.11602563]

>>11602472
Yes.

[Anonymous No.11602595]

>>11602425
I found the passage I was referencing in a footnote on Marxists.org
>The formal declarations of Engels in this respect are too numerous to be recounted here. Let us say simply that there is not the slightest doubt regarding the paternity of the great scientific discoveries, which are all, without exception, attributable only to Marx. Of all his declarations, the most significant is perhaps the note inserted by Engels in a writing which was to demonstrate the continuity of German philosophy in elevating its most dignified inheritor, Karl Marx, to the rank of founder of a system. See Engels, Ludwig Feuerbach and the End of Classical German Philosophy, 1888. It is in this work that Engels made the official gesture of baptising the theory with Marx’s name: “Out of the dissolution of the Hegelian school, however, there developed still another tendency, the only one which has borne real fruit. And this tendency is essentially connected with the name of Marx.” Engels repeated this act in the note where he remarks that “What Marx accomplished I would not have achieved. [...] Marx was a genius; we others were at best talented. Without him the theory would not be by far what it is today. It therefore rightly bears his name.” We should not then be surprised at the conclusion to this critique, which consecrates Marx as both inheritor and founder of a philosophical school: “The German working-class movement is the inheritor of German classical philosophy.” Engels had thus cast the die.

[Anonymous No.11602612]

>marx thread
Stirner.jpg

[Anonymous No.11602613]

>>11602124
no, no he doesn't.

[Anonymous No.11602624]

>>11602563
Nice.

[Anonymous No.11602632]

>>11602563

Serious question from another anon. Do you, in fact, own all fifty volumes, have them all in your possession in some sense, or a partial selection (heh) of them? Print copies, or computer files?

How did you come by your collection?

[Anonymous No.11602688]

>>11599955
You never went to university I take it. I paid them to work on projects.

[Anonymous No.11602724]

>>11602632
I do, in fact, own all 50 volumes physically. I came into possessing most of them from paying out of my own pocket online over a few years, but a few volumes I received as gifts from friends for holidays and the like, however, to be honest, I would say most people interested in Marx can get along just fine reading the texts off Marxists.org, There's a kind anon on /leftypol/ who has a MEGA link to all 50 volumes in pdf if you don't have the time nor money for the sink, which is perfectly understandable.
I wanted the volumes because I consider myself an avid Marxist, and they are the most recent translations still as far as I know. (with the exception of Capital).

[Anonymous No.11602727]

>>11600076
lmaoooooo

[Anonymous No.11602804]

>>11602724
What are your thoughts on everything?

[Anonymous No.11602836]

>>11599887
>>11599915
>>11599955
cringe

[Anonymous No.11602868]

>>11599849
No, it was Judaism

[Anonymous No.11602901]

>>11602804
Well, a lot of the letters, while interesting, don't hold that much value to anyone besides people who already are infatuated with Marx/Engels, and this hold especially true of the juvenilia in the early volumes, but they provide interesting insight into the more intimate parts of their lives that is hard to find elsewhere. The translations, as I mentioned before, are currently the standard for Marx/Engels translations even after decades of some volumes being released, and the price reflects that.
Online, on places like Abebooks, the prices of the volumes vary, with some being around $20-30 used for certain volumes and $70+ for others; If you wish, you can buy the volumes for £50 new each directly from the publisher's website (Lawrence and Wishart).
Ultimately, I would recommend these books to anyone with s serious interest in Marxism and a disposable income, but most won't need these editions to study Marx passively.

[Anonymous No.11602912]

God leftypol is getting absolutely destroyed in this thread. embarrassing tbqh.

[Anonymous No.11602921]

>>11602724

Can you help me to understand the distinctions between the following texts?

"Theories of Surplus Value"
"1861-1863 Economic Manuscripts"
"1861-1864, or '1863-1864 economic manuscripts".

And closely related items from about v. 30-34 or so.

On cursory review, I had a hard time telling where TSV ends and 61-63 begins, based on the notebook intro pages (certain notebooks seemed to be missing?!) Also of interest might be whatever explanatory material accompanied Kautsky's TSV I guess.

What are "the grand six stages" of the overall Capital project?

For context to other anons who may have interest in this dialectic, see https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1863/theories-surplus-value/index.htm

[Anonymous No.11603171]

>>11602912
Communism is simply inferior

[Anonymous No.11603812]

>>11600399
Standard response from someone who has never read a page of Marx

[Anonymous No.11604395]

>>11602612
Only relevant because Engels made stirner.jpg

[Anonymous No.11604455]

>>11604395
it's relevant because Stirner completely BTFO Marx with pure egoism

[Anonymous No.11604460]

>>11602901
No, I own the set too. Allow me to rephrase. I meant it rather literally.
What are your thoughts on life, politics and everything related to those? It is a loaded question, one that cannot be answered with any sort of brevity. I'm genuinely curious.

[Anonymous No.11604917]

>>11599968
>tankie seething after being outed
lmfao

[Anonymous No.11604922]

>>11600370
When you can't refute the point and sperg out on a tangent about the """other side""" it makes your position look worse.

[Anonymous No.11604927]

>>11602688
>I paid them
Anon you just refuted yourself.

[Anonymous No.11604928]

>>11599849
By your logic, virtually every historian and economist was autistic.

[Anonymous No.11604951]

>>11602836
OP proven correct.

[Anonymous No.11604972]

>>11604917
>I am not seething... you are
/pol/fags going into full damage control coz they know they lost the argument lmao

[Anonymous No.11605012]

>>11604972
>coz
Stop

[Anonymous No.11605020]

>>11604972
>tankie literally patrolling the thread in order to respond
SEETHING

[Anonymous No.11605127]

>>11602499
Have you actually read Trémaux? You probably don't even read French. When evolutionary theory was emerging in biology there was little empirical evidence and a lot of speculation e.g. Darwin himself believed in Lamarckian inheritance playing a role alongside natural selection if you actually read him.

http://phylonetworks.blogspot.com/2013/07/pierre-tremaux-unknown-phylogeneticist.html

[Anonymous No.11605136]

>>11602509
On Marxs general developing thinking on Russia see:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1881/zasulich/index.htm

The Ethnological Notebooks is an insight into what Marx was up to in the last 7 years of his life, a period when he wasn't really publishing because he was ill, most of which had to do with the issue of researching "primitive communism". It's extracts and notes on the ethnological literature of his time (which was new and largly still an armchair exercise). He probably also delved into archaeology, inspired by Flinders Petrie in Egypt. (Marx also produced a volume sized manuscript on the Fundamentals of Geology which has yet to published, obviously because the reconstruction of prehistory requires archaeology.) He hypothesized prehistoric society to have begun coming apart into classes in the Chiefdoms stage. He probably then hypothesized that a stratigraphic sequence in Europe or the Near East or Egypt, of the right time and social evolutionary period, should show the transition in the material remains of this cultural evolution. Most of the work on this period of Marxs life is VERY OBSCURE and mostly in Russian academic journals... google translate is pretty good for this though and it's readable enough e.g. see in particular the works of Boris F. Porshnev:
> The historical interests of Marx in the last years of his life and work on the "Chronological extracts"
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://oleg-devyatkin.livejournal.com/234034.html&xid=25657,15700022,15700124,15700149,15700168,15700186,15700191,15700201&usg=ALkJrhjDcxn4vDcVVPkS0jhEUuNau_Qamw

Porshnev is an interesting figure in his own right, he was the central player in academic Soviet bigfootology and took the notion of actual potential living intelligent hominids besides Homo sapien sapiens very seriously:
> The Troglodytidae and the Hominidae in the Taxonomy and Evolution of Higher Primates
http://www.bigfootencounters.com/biology/porshnev.htm

A lot of his ideas are very interesting to summarize some from what I've been reading:

Abstract labour (in the Marxian sense) emerged already when we were pure scavengers... symbolism first emerged in these first concrete situations of joint activity.
All our higher mental functions are internalized social relations.
Hypersuggestivity emerged with speech.
We developed it in a symbiotic relationship with predators - cat and hyena (which is very important).
Fire emerges by accident from stone tools breaking bones for marrow (no other species ate bone marrow).
He claims humans/neanderthals probably ate each other and we probably ate our own excess children. Human history really only began with the emergence of cannibalism.
Fear didn't exist in early humans which allowed global conquest.

[Anonymous No.11605149]

>>11599849
>never read a word of marx in your life
>write non-stop about marx

[Anonymous No.11605168]

>>11605012
>>11605020
>more damage control
So sad

[Anonymous No.11605288]

>>11599849
This seems like a lot of work to me op

[Anonymous No.11605359]

>marx never worked even though he wrote a closet full of books which changed philosophy, economics and history forever
>marx was stupeed because his theories have been used like in cambodia and everyone was genocided so marx literally advocated genocide
durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr