/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11400349]

Muslims of /lit/ is this a good book to start with in my study of the Qu'ran? Non-Muslims, what are you thoughts on this book?

[Anonymous No.11400363]

I don't know myself but I've heard people recommend "The Study Quran" in particular.

[Anonymous No.11400375]

>>11400349
I have 2 pics, this is the first ( mind you so translation do vary based on sects)

[Anonymous No.11400379]

>>11400375
And the second

[Anonymous No.11400405]

>>11400349
>>11400363
Yeah get the Study Qur'an, it's a modern translation with notes done by a bunch of actual Muslim scholars from all the major sects. I assume you can't read Arabic so the lack of Arabic text won't matter. I use Yusuf Ali for worship. Also, don't forget to listen to it when you read it. There are free recitations all around, Quran.com, tanzil.net, random YouTube videos, etc.
I hope you find your journey rewarding.

[Anonymous No.11400406]

>>11400349
There are many translations of the quran. Ive heard pic related ia
be wary of books by western orientalists who havent studied islam and arabic for an extended time.

But if you want, you could listen to Timothy Winter and Hamza Yusuf, both trained in western and islamic philosophy and theology.

I prefer the pickthall translation (A bit archaic in langauge but more poetic)

[Anonymous No.11400415]

>>11400406
pic related is decent*

>>11400405
I also recommend listening to recitation

[Anonymous No.11400416]

>>11400379
>no idries shah

boo

[Anonymous No.11400417]

>>11400363
>>11400375
>>11400379
>>11400405
Thank you; all of you.

[Anonymous No.11400419]

>>11400349
>is The Quran a good book to start with my study of The Quran?
hmmmm let me think about that

[Anonymous No.11400432]

>>11400419
It's a translation. Different translations no doubt hold different merit to different Muslims. I'm not looking to learn Arabic so I wont be studying an Arabic copy.

[Anonymous No.11400447]

You need to read the sira of the prophet too to have a holistic understanding. Of which Martin Lings' is probably the best in the english langauge.

[Anonymous No.11400549]

I wonder how muzzies feel about their prophet fucking a 9 year old girl

[Anonymous No.11400555]

yes, abdel haleem is good

i don't recommend you get the study quran because the commentary will be distracting and take away from the experience as a first time reader of the quran. you can read commentaries later down the line

t. actual practicing muslim

[Anonymous No.11400563]

>>11400549
people have been criticizing the prophet (pbuh) from the inception of islam. christian polemicists in particular liked to focus in on his married life. despite this, not once in the history of islam, until the 20th century, was aisha's age brought up as being a problem by any polemicist.

[Anonymous No.11400565]

>>11400416
idries shah is a fraud

[Anonymous No.11400569]

>>11400549
Wow, what an original post.

[Anonymous No.11400584]

>>11400563
>Christians thought it was ok

[Anonymous No.11400597]

>>11400584
Is that no valid? in 2100 youll be critizing that he didnt marry a man.

[Anonymous No.11400648]

>>11400563
>not once in the history of islam, until the 20th century, was aisha's age brought up as being a problem by any polemicist
i hope you realize this isn't a good argument for anything

[Anonymous No.11400650]

>>11400375
Seriously, thanks for this.

[Anonymous No.11400905]

>>11400349
The only reason to study this shit is to learn how to destroy them or how to convince them to destroy the jews.

tfw god says I can fuck kids and my cousins

[Anonymous No.11400945]

>>11400375
>Nsrv bible
Why God would you recommend this version?

[Anonymous No.11400948]

>>11400905
The bible says that too.. unless youre a pagan or atheist.

[Anonymous No.11400950]

>>11400349
stop stealing Quebec's colors you sand niggers.

[Anonymous No.11400953]

>>11400905
Are you implying there's anything wrong with trying to destroy the jews?

[Anonymous No.11400959]

>>11400953
read my post again my nigga the enemy of my enemy is my friend

[Anonymous No.11400963]

>>11400948
No I am Hindu

[Anonymous No.11401004]

>>11400650
Source?

[Anonymous No.11401021]

I have an intense dislike for Muslims, especially the self-righteous scum who run off to the West and bitch about white people or whatever lights their dimwitted bulbs. There will be war again and you will die.

[Anonymous No.11401082]

>>11400945
>Why God would you recommend this version?
I think as an introductory text; after which you would read KJV, also an introductory text. The next step, I assume, would be the original greek.

[Anonymous No.11401115]

>>11400963
Here you go pajeet. You're more identical to your Muslim counterpart than you'd like to admit

[Anonymous No.11401201]

The chief editor of the Study Qur'an is Seyyed Hosein Nasr, who is a Traditionalist, like Rene Guenon and Frithjof Schuon. I also heard the Study Qur'an has a Sufi bias. So, my question for the muslims here is, are the translation and commentary legit, or is it perennialist trash?

[Anonymous No.11401240]

>>11401201
Yes, major orthodox scholars such as Hamza Yusuf have signed off on it.
Of course, no one is recommending it for in depth study, since only the at Arabic is considered good enough for that. It is good enough if you just want to know what's in the Qur'an and how it's been treated historically, if you want to make your own analyses and study it, learning arabic is the most basic requirement.

[Anonymous No.11401253]

>>11401240
If you want to see why the focus on the original arabic is important, pick up either Islam and Secularism or Prologomena to the Metaphysics of Islam both by Syed Muhammad Naquib al Attas. He explains it very well. Basically, the language is considered perfect, meaning that the associations between words such as grammatical derivations are significant. For example, it's not a valid argument to consider the etymology of a word to argue about the underlying concept in English, but in Qur'anic Arabic and Islamic philosophy/theology, thus is normal, because God has perfected the language. Get the books I mentioned if you want to see a more in-depth discussion.

[Anonymous No.11401257]

The problem is that the Qur'an is very unlike the Bible or other sacred texts, in a lot of ways.
It's difficult for a non-Muslim to jump into it by reading it from the start, which is what you would do with a "translation".
Pic related. It gives translations (sometimes more than one) of some of the earliest suras, which tend to appear closer to the end of the book. These are the suras that kids learn first, and the suras that are more likely to be read at recitations.

[Anonymous No.11401302]

>يقرأ الترجمة

[Anonymous No.11401303]

>>11400349
Holy cow, OP, that is the exact same Qur'an that I have started to read. I recently bought it on Amazon thinking that it was an updated version from the .pdf that I got from the Internet Archive, but turns out that it's the exact same book. But it is nice having access to the specific chapters in the Go To feature of my Kindle Paperwhite. Oh well, not like it was that expensive.

Anyway, I am honestly enjoying my reading of it, but "The Cow" is so overwhelming since it's so long yet it is fairly interesting since it is sort of a recap of what happened in The Bible except revised.

>>11400405
Do you still recommend the book in the OP?

[Anonymous No.11401342]

>>11400349
>>11401257
It better have stories and comparisons to modern cultural references that I don't have to experience first hand. I'm not so keen on strapping homemade plastics to my chest. I cried about a virgin when I was in high school, got it out of my system, and it's been a long time since then.

[Anonymous No.11401347]

If it's not in Arabic it's not valid. So it's a bullshit book imo.

[Anonymous No.11401778]

>>11401004
internet

[Anonymous No.11402007]

>>11400597
Fucking a child is not something to be relativized.

[Anonymous No.11402028]

Heard that version is pozzed to hell

[Anonymous No.11402034]

>>11401201
The commentaries are multiple and largely not from Traditionalists but from Sunni and Shiite scholars that predate them. Also the translation of The Study Quran is the best there is in English. "To have a Sufi bias" means not excluding Sufi esoteric readings, or Ta'wil, besides, most people on /lit/ want to know about Sufism anyway.
My only complaint is that it doesn't contain information on the Qur'an itself (history, transmission, did you know about palm leaves etc.), so to get it you need a book like The Cambridge Companion to the Qur'an.

[Anonymous No.11402048]

>>11402007
Its not moral relativism.

[Anonymous No.11402049]

>>11400597
>in 2100 youll be critizing that he didnt marry a man.

> implying there will still be men in 2100

Look at this misogynist.

[Anonymous No.11402079]

>>11400349
>Non-Muslims, what are you thoughts on this book?
meh. same as others. good point is that it is focused on earthly needs of the community.

[Anonymous No.11402084]

>>11400597
>Is that no valid
majority of people you are talking to are atheists or agnostics who think Christians is a salve for mentally weak people who can't deal with reality

[Anonymous No.11402086]

>>11402048
than what is it? are you admitting that the teaching is outdated and people have outgrown it?

[Anonymous No.11402098]

>700-1900
why did he marry his deceased relatives wife
>1900-2018
why did he marry aisha
>2050
why didnt he marry a women of colour (black)
>2100
why didnt he marry a man
>2200
cant beleive he didnt marry an anima
>2300
csnt believe he didnt marry a transhuman tranny
>2400
cant believe men used to exist

[Anonymous No.11402105]

>>11402007
It is though. Read Ian Hacking. Fucking children only became taboo between 1960 and 1980.
If you want to say that we have just now discovered that consent as well as the inability of children to think for themselves are discoveries of eternal moral values that preceded our discoveries of them then sure.
But the fact is moral values are historically specific fictions.

[Anonymous No.11402108]

Does /lit/ still recommend this version in collaboration with "The Study Qur'an" and who was the author of the latter?

[Anonymous No.11402117]

>>11400375
I have the Chronological Study Bible and it really is a nice book. I highly recommend it.

[Anonymous No.11402122]

>>11402098
what is your point?

[Anonymous No.11402125]

>>11402108
The study quran was a collaborative effort of the students of seyyid hossein nasr. As a Muslim I recommend you only get that. Very thin paper etc but the language is contemporary and the notes give you the full scope of translation issues. The essays at the end of it also include scholars who disagree with them (they are perenialists and thus not in line with orthodox teachings). The notes also are great because they provide you with information/bibliography of classical interpretations. It is up to you to find out whether they are sunni or shia (or even mu'tazilite) sources though.

[Anonymous No.11402136]

>>11402105
>Ian Hacking
what to read from him if I'm interested in what you're saying?

Also, what's a good book on this topic in general? Where do you get the number "between 1960 and 1980" from?

[Anonymous No.11402146]

>>11402122
desu is difficult.

[Anonymous No.11402149]

>>11402136
I get the number from himself, from Rewriting the Soul which is concerned with many things and child abuse is mentioned in passing (I'm just being edgy when saying it -is- relative since morality is a lot more complex than that). Here is an article by him on this topic which I haven't read:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1343837?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

[Anonymous No.11402206]

>>11402149
Great. I'll be reading this!

[Anonymous No.11402836]

bump

[Anonymous No.11403072]

had this surreal moment recently seeing a women in a full burqa and suddenly wishing all women were forced to dress that way

[Anonymous No.11403078]

>>11403072
kek its your perennial nature

[Anonymous No.11403097]

>>11403072
the desire of the primordial father. its in us all anon.

[Anonymous No.11403609]

>>11403072
Seconding this. White women but Islamic levels of modest.

[Anonymous No.11404346]

>>11403072
Based

[Anonymous No.11404838]

>>11403609
>White women but Islamic levels of modest
We used to call this Christian levels of modest.
Feels bad desu

[Anonymous No.11404844]

I thought there was way too much focus on the afterlife and the rewards and punishments.

[Anonymous No.11404912]

>>11404838
Source? I mean a return to Orthodoxy might be just modest enough?

[Anonymous No.11404933]

[Anonymous No.11405100]

>>11404912
In my parish which is Greek Orthodox (not as conservative as Russians or Serbs usually) about half of the women wear a scarf and its almost all of them are the younger women. The boomers don't really care about tradition but the younger ones do. Was a real whitepill when I stopped being a protty faggot.

[Anonymous No.11405232]

>>11405100
no one believes you larper we know there are no orthodox women

[Anonymous No.11405255]

>>11405100
>>11405100
>about half of the women wear a scarf and its almost all of them are the younger women. The boomers don't really care about tradition but the younger ones do.
this is even more apparent in catholic masses because all the boomers stick to the vatican II mass but the traditional minded go to melkite and latin services

[Anonymous No.11405281]

>>11400349
Plagiarised the Alexander Romance which isn't very good to begin with. The rest is derivative of the worst of Judaic texts as would be expected from a desert bandit needing to leap the low level of wowing over other desert bandits.

[Anonymous No.11405857]

>>11405100
>>11405255
So should I become Catholic or Orthodox?

[Anonymous No.11405887]

>>11405857
Compare the Pope to the Patriarchs. Do your research but keep in mind that the church should be a stronghold against modernity and all heresies that come from it. I'm orthodox and obiously I think we are in the right, especially since Vatican II but seriously do research, go to mass and liturgy, and talk to priests from both.

Regarding what >>11405255 said. I think the fact that traditionalist Catholics are considered almost a fringe minority should be telling.

[Anonymous No.11406122]

>>11400349
I shit on that book

[Anonymous No.11406263]

>>11403072
I frequently joke that if I have a daughter she'll be raised a traditional muslim and will wear her entire burqa before leaving the house to keep her modesty but in reality I don't think i'm actually joking

[Anonymous No.11406311]

>>11403072
You are literally me. Pseudo-conservatives who complain about how hijab is “oppressive” are almost as bad as most Muslim migrants.

[Anonymous No.11406331]

>>11403072
Pathetic insecure little man child.