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/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Fri Jun 29 11:04:32 2018 No.11390627 [Reply] [Original]

Did Joyce hate Protestants? Based off his writings in Portrait.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 11:05:38 2018 No.11390630 >>11390627 >raised Catholic in late 19th century Ireland Probably.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 11:11:52 2018 No.11390640 >>11390630 Why?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 11:15:22 2018 No.11390652 >>11390640 Jealousy

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 11:19:11 2018 No.11390667 >>11390652 This.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 14:33:52 2018 No.11391229 >>11390627 He hates not being a retard.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 14:34:32 2018 No.11391232 >>11390640 Irish hated Brits and adopted Catholicism to spite them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 14:35:16 2018 No.11391235 >>11391232 Based Irishmen

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 15:33:56 2018 No.11391439 No. Which passages lead you to believe this? Stephen leaves Ireland because of Catholicism, not Protestantism.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 15:47:16 2018 No.11391487 File: 365 KB, 2446x582, IMG_2849.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11391439

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 15:51:48 2018 No.11391506 >>11391439 It's possible to dislike both to some degree. Stephen is just a character, of course, and a "young man" on top of it all, so he shouldn't necessarily be taken as a representation of Joyce's views as an adult.

Anonymous Fri Jun 29 15:52:59 2018 No.11391511

You kind of need to be Irish to understand this, or know the history. It's less of a hatred and more of a historical tension between a half foreign aristocratic gentile minority community and the historically oppressed underclass of Catholics. Like the Balkans some light ethnic cleansing and such happened, and we now years later pretend we are normie secular Americans.

Anonymous Fri Jun 29 16:05:25 2018 No.11391562

>>11391487
I can see how that could be read as anti-Protestant, but I think what Stephen is getting at here is that Catholicism is *consistent* with its rules and strictures

Also, this poster is correct >>11391511
Learning the history of Ireland and Irish literature helps immensely in understanding Joyce

>>	OP Fri Jun 29 16:39:58 2018 No.11391659 >>11391487 That's the one!

Anonymous Fri Jun 29 16:44:24 2018 No.11391673

>>11390627
Everyone hates protestants, it's an important part of accepting maturity and adult life. Half of the western's current evils would be corrected if someone nailed that autists hands to the cahtedral instead of his retarded thesis and catholicism had enough time to mature and die out.

>>	OP Fri Jun 29 19:26:42 2018 No.11392179 Bump. Discuss more please.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 19:50:21 2018 No.11392257 >>11390627 Sorry we dont read books here but we do pretend we read books especially that guys books and if you dont pretend to read his books and pretend to like them, well, uh, FUCK RIGHT OFF, bait!

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:04:42 2018 No.11392299 >>11391673 /Thread

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:10:16 2018 No.11392312 >>11392257 The quality of your post is below reddit.

Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:14:02 2018 No.11392325
File: 28 KB, 485x443, IMG_20180629_190524.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11390652
>>11390667

No. Their heretical doctrine of God is insulting to what God wanted us to learn. Completely ignoring the Virgin Mary of Guadalupe, spitting on the Saints' sacrifices and their wisdom by taking out 7 holy books of wisdom is only leading people to an illusive path and sending them to hell. It is one of the things that has let the Anti-Christ take control of the Catholic Church and create the Vatican II aka the counter church that the Bible predicted. This "mass" that Masons and Protestants created for the counter church is one of the many things that the Bible predicted about the apocalypse.

>>11391673
This too.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:19:09 2018 No.11392341 >>11392325 This. Protestantism and Anglicanism especially is for brainlets. Hardcore turbo Lutherans and Puritans can be interesting but middle of the road moderate protestants are intellectually disabled pseudo-atheists

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:22:24 2018 No.11392347 >>11392341 I find calvinism even worse. It's fascistic nihilism but somehow pretending to be christian, one of the most heretic things I've ever seen in life. Anglicans are just auto-mode (or as you put it, intellectually disabled pseudo-atheists)

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:24:14 2018 No.11392353 is religion just a fancy front for ethnopolitical mobilization? are people willingly duped into this kind of tribalism because it feels more high-minded than simply attacking outsiders for being outsiders? serious questions

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:27:45 2018 No.11392364 >>11392353 No. All Religions except Catholicism were created by demons to worship the devil and lead people to a path of destruction. God Exists, watch: https://youtu.be/aRIGERpDCZg https://youtu.be/vYLy7CCgqDk

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:35:28 2018 No.11392376 >>11392347 Calvinists are nutjobs but they at least produce some fascinating people. William Blake was the son of puritans

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:36:44 2018 No.11392382 >>11392364 This. Every. Single. Catholic miracle was real. God is real and His is religion is Catholic

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:48:42 2018 No.11392412 >>11392325 I correct myself with the agreeing on the final phrase of >>11391673. Catholicism has survived more than 2000 years and will stay alive. This is all part of God's plan, the one and only supreme creator of this universe.

Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:52:46 2018 No.11392421

>>11392412
What I mean by dying out is more "becoming less politically prevalent". While not a believer myself, I think religion is a very important part of human experience and have a deep admiration for catholic doctrine and history. I don't think it will ever die either, desu

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:54:37 2018 No.11392428 >>11392421 Amen brother. The Catholic Church was a political nightmare but then that's what happens when you don't render unto Caesar

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:56:06 2018 No.11392432 >>11392382 >God is a Mary idolater Kill yourself and go to hell blasphemer.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:57:21 2018 No.11392433 >>11392432 God chose Mary out of all people born or ever born to be his mother. If that's not idolizing I don't know what is

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 20:58:31 2018 No.11392436 File: 8 KB, 228x221, 1521083275336.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11392432 >>God is a Mary idolater >Kill yourself and go to hell blasphemer.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 21:01:08 2018 No.11392444 wish i had his hairline

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 29 21:06:21 2018 No.11392462 >>11392444 I do. Better luck next life lol

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 30 01:01:41 2018 No.11393030 >>11390627 why does joyce always look so damn sad in photos infinite despair in his eyes

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 30 01:03:39 2018 No.11393033 >>11391232 unironically this >NO GOD FOR IRELAND

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 30 01:27:23 2018 No.11393071 >>11393030 Iq to high

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 30 05:05:55 2018 No.11393602 >>11393030 He was loosing his eyesight, lived in poverty, his daughter suffered from schizophrenia etc.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 30 05:24:34 2018 No.11393624 >>11393030 >tfw not actively smelling farts

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 30 05:28:47 2018 No.11393629 >>11392353 >duped It it helps in-group survival that's a feature, not a bug.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 30 05:30:03 2018 No.11393632 Well he certainly hated Bram Stoker and his anti-Catholic horror gimmicks

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 30 12:10:46 2018 No.11394490 >>11393629 More like shitty legacy programming

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 30 12:53:46 2018 No.11394620 >>11392364 >>11392382 fucking larpers

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 30 13:15:06 2018 No.11394688 >>11391232 So I see yer racist britan well we have a gay Indian mayr nowe and our contry is ron by googel’ yer move!

Anonymous Sat Jun 30 13:48:59 2018 No.11394809

OP, you can't separate very intense political difference, British occupation, and basically warfare from the Cath/Prot dichotomy in Ireland; it's embedded into their history. Also don't forget that Portrait is written from the point of view of a baby->adolescent, of course that character is going to take on predilections of the people around him. If you read Ulysses you'll find Joyce hates that kind of dichotomous thinking, and parodies it extensively, including the over-patriotic ties.

Anonymous Sat Jun 30 17:11:50 2018 No.11395489

I believe OP is on about the scene where Stephen comments to Cranly that he wouldn’t trade one coherent absurdity for another incoherent absurdity. There’s loads of irony in Portrait as despite Stephens rebellion against his background it’s shown Stephen is defined by it, he believes he’s detached himself from his influences such as his Jesuit education, Catholicism, his family and Ireland. There’s numerous references and allusions to Paradise Lost in Portrait, mostly comparisons of Stephen to Miltons lucifer who originally rebel’s against God because he believes he is “self-begot” or self made of his own creation and not Gods. The irony is that Stephens (and Joyce’s) aesthetic system is theolically based, the scene where he has his discussion of what beauty is with the college dean is an example, (the holy trinity of father and son in Ulysses comes to mind, as well as the aquinian motif of the cracked looking glass and focus on characters eyes.) Basically without bullshit the scene illustrates the irony that Stephen is still a product of his catholic environment instead of his belief he is self begotten like Milton lucifer.

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