/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11127964]

Do I need to read Portrait of a Young Man and Odyssey to understand and appreciate this book?

[Anonymous No.11127994]

I have the same question. I sure hope not, because every cover of Portrait I've ever seen is shit, I wouldn't be caught dead reading much less buying a book with such terrible covers. I'd just as soon tear the covers off but then I'd look like a poorfag.

[Anonymous No.11128009]

>>11127994
Then uhh get a kindle.

[Anonymous No.11128019]

>>11127964
Can't hurt those are good books.

[Anonymous No.11128023]

>>11128019
But Odyssey is a uhh poem...

[Anonymous No.11128025]

no, but you should. portrait is his best

[Anonymous No.11128027]

>>11127994
create your own book cover, are you that uncreative?

[Anonymous No.11128066]

>>11128023
You don't like poetry? It's the same shit but they don't say it forthrightly because they cannot quantify.

[Anonymous No.11128107]

>>11128023
>poems don't into books

[Anonymous No.11128113]

>>11127964
No, Ulysses could be enjoyed simple through the rhythm of the prose. Portrait can explain what Joyce set out to do.

[Anonymous No.11128178]

>>11127964
No, but they're damn good warm-ups and I would recommend doing so. Also, this collection is useful: it brings together all the poems published by Joyce in his lifetime, most notably "Chamber Music" and "Pomes Penyeach". It also includes a large body of his satiric or humorous occasional verse, much of which is fugitive and little known to the general reader. In addition, the volume provides the text of the surviving prose "Epiphanies, Giacomo Joyce" - the fascinating Trieste notebook that Joyce compiled while finishing "A Portrait of the Artist" and beginning "Ulysses", in which he first explored the world of his autobiographical novel.

[Anonymous No.11128342]

>>11127964
No but you should definitely have some sort of analysis guide, preferably beyond Shmoop but that's still decent. But Odyssey and Portrait (and Dubliners) are phenomenal works of art in their own right and worth reading anyway.

[Anonymous No.11128348]

>>11127994
i was actually just talking with someone about how much i like this one.

[Anonymous No.11128372]

It helps a lot. Portrait familiarizes you with one of the main characters of the book and gives a lot of information that's built on in Ulysses. It's really interesting to see how Stephen's ideas and disposition evolve. Portrait's also just genuinely a really excellent book you should read. Dubliner's is great too. They both ease you into Joyce's writing and the themes he's working with. Again, I think they can and should be enjoyed based on their own merit, but the process of reading Portrait --> Ulysses adds another layer of the sublime.

As others have said, I'd reccomend getting a guide for Ulysses. You can read it for the "poetry" like people who didn't understand it will reccomend (and that's certainly a big part of reading it) but it took Joyce months to write each episode for a reason and the transformation that took place within him each time took place for a reason ("Circe has turned me into a beast." He couldn't listen to music after finishing Sirens). There's so much to be gained from trying to understand it. Emphasis on trying. It's a very difficult book you'll likely hate reading at times but incredibly rewarding. I reccomend the Gifford annotations. I would read all the annotations for the episode and then read the episode itself and would go back if my brain made a loose connection that needed to be tightened. Taking notes and writing your thoughts on it is useful too. Ulysses is very much something that's meant to be lived. I found myself thinking a lot about it as I went about my day and much of it enfolds through rumination.

[Anonymous No.11128468]

>>11127964
Potrait, Hamlet, and Odyssey

[Anonymous No.11128472]

>>11127964
I'd STRONGLY suggest reading Dubliners and Portrait before starting Ulysses.

[Anonymous No.11128473]

I don't understand the writing in Portrait. How do I get eased in it?

[Anonymous No.11128485]

>>11128473
Just keep reading. As the main character grows up, the style grows up with him.

[Anonymous No.11128488]

>>11128485

Alright, I'll give it another chance then.

[Anonymous No.11128558]

>>11128178
Any chance you got a link to an EPUB of that?

[Anonymous No.11128607]

>>11127994
You're a fucking idiot. Stop reading to impress people

[Anonymous No.11129234]

Ulysses practically picks up 5 minutes after Portrait leaves off and his referencing events and characters from Portrait constantly.

You don't have to read Portrait to understand Ulysses, but it will add to your enjoyment of it.

Read Joyce in chronological order:
Dubliners, Portrait, Ulysses.
Not only to see how he grew as a writer, but also to gradually ease yourself into Ulysses by getting you accustomed to his writing style.

[Anonymous No.11129238]

>>11127964
>havn't read the Odyssey
Nigger what are you doing?

[Anonymous No.11129246]

>>11128066
I don't get the point of poetry without rhymes.

[Anonymous No.11129316]

The Odyssey is worth reading anyway, one of the greatest works of fiction of all time. Joyce isn't worth reading though so just give up on that.

[Anonymous No.11129558]

Joyce is a hack and publishing any anglo saxon writers was a mistake

[Anonymous No.11130235]

>>11128558
Sorry, I bought the book. I love Faber's poetry bindings.
>>11129234
Joyce in chronological order is always good advice.

[Anonymous No.11130268]

1. Dubliners
2. Portrait
3. Poems and Shorter Writings
4. Ulysses
5. Finnegan's Wake

[Anonymous No.11130290]

>>11130268
>Finnegan's

[Anonymous No.11130298]

>>11130290
I'm sorry my typo disturbed you.

[Anonymous No.11130387]

>>11127964

Start with the Greggs

[Anonymous No.11131298]

>>11128023
>>11127994
you sound like massive fags I can't bother to reply properly

[Anonymous No.11131327]

>>11129558
>Joyce
>anglo saxon

[Anonymous No.11131334]

>>11130387
MEAT PIE SOSIJ ROLL
COME ON INGLIN
GIVE US A GOAL

[Anonymous No.11131635]

>>11130268
His poems aren't exactly essential reading, let's be honest here.

[Anonymous No.11131675]

>>11131635
Neither is Exiles. Nor Giacomo Joyce.

[Anonymous No.11131676]

>>11129246

[Anonymous No.11132053]

>>11131635
Definitely not essential, no, but that's where I'd suggest them in order of reading.

[Anonymous No.11132099]

>>11127964
Do you need to ask? Reread Hamlet as well.

[Anonymous No.11132162]

>>11127964
You should read those two anyway because they're genuinely amazing.

[Anonymous No.11132275]

This is about to be the first book I've ever dropped. I feel like I'm back in elementary school learning how to read. I can barely understand the book at a surface level, not to mention the subtle word play and allusions. Only occasionally do I get a glimpse of this book's genius.

I'll come back to it again in a couple years maybe but next time I'm definitely going in with a guide. I don't understand all the advice I got saying to just go into the book without any help. This is definitely a book that needs to be study to be fully appreciated.

[Anonymous No.11132366]

>>11128372
Wait, should one read annotations before or after the first reading?

[Anonymous No.11132400]

>>11127964
you're considering reading Ulysses even though you've never read the Odyssey? I don't mean you need to read every classic before you go into Joyce but come on man

[Anonymous No.11132466]

>>11131327
Correct. All Irish are

[Anonymous No.11132478]

>>11132275
First book I dropped as well. Not because I thought it was above me, but because I recognised pretty early on that it was tryhard pseud garbage that was trying to insult me and waste my time. I hope you learn to overcome your feelings of intellectual inferiority and to standup to puffed-up know-nothing intellectual bullies.

[Anonymous No.11132588]

>>11132478
Just because I don't understand something doesn't mean it's bad. If I want to understand a Chinese poem I'm going to need some help to fully understand it especially with the more subtle connotations. No shame in using a guide to fully appreciate something you don't understand.

But you definitely need to want to commit to it which I don't feel like at all atm.

[Anonymous No.11132632]

Neither are necessary, but I recommend that this is not a book to read if you're not well-read.

[Anonymous No.11133605]

>>11132478
>trying to insult me and waste my time
>intellectual bullies

Jesus, anon, get over yourself. If you think Joyce spent his life working on these books as some kind of trick, you're being absurd. Ulysses took him seven years. Finnegans Wake took sixteen. Maybe we're far enough past the need for the kind of formal experimentation he undertook that it seems unnecessary to you in 2018, but literature was pretty fucking different a century ago. He sure as hell didn't write Ulysses for you or anyone like you: he could never have conceived of the kind of modern knowledge or the profound ignorance that most readers bring to the table now.

[Anonymous No.11135141]

>>11132466
No they are not--Irishmen are Gaelic and Scandinavian, primarily, and anglosaxon only by dint of colonialism

[Anonymous No.11135154]

You need to understand the history of nationalism and unionism, the concept of Mother Ireland, and modernity

[Anonymous No.11136348]

>>11135154
Teach me