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/lit/ - Literature


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11073661 No.11073661[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Explain to me how he is wrong on postmodernism

>> No.11073678

that's what I thought

>> No.11073687

He seems to argue that currently held ideas of postmodernism (in academia) are still on par with Marxist politics and will inevitably lead to revisiting the communist project, albeit a less obvious path. Most political, international relations or ethical studies in liberal arts curriculum speak to Marxism usually by way of 'critical theory' as a tool for analysis, taking into account historical materialism when evaluating policy or events. By conflating critical theory with full-blown communist agendas, you're not only misunderstanding the purpose of evaluative tools in public policy but also allowing yourself to be intellectually dishonest.

>> No.11073700

he's con artist who's grifting the self help book market

no one cares anymore

>> No.11073707

>>11073687
This is actually a very thoughtful response this board isn’t going to shit after all

>> No.11073723

>>11073687
Peterson is more of a psychologist at times than a philosopher. Based on his own researches into the history and the psychology of mass totalitarian and communist movements, he believes there’s the undercurrent brewing now. So it’s valid to take that viewpoint — i.e. his opinion as a psychologist — into consideration. His idea is not so much “these people using critical theory or covert or overt Marxists who want to establish a communist regime”; rather, it’s, “There is a trend in academia and the use of critical theory which seems to be inciting people to hold views similar to that of Marxist totalitarianism, and this may lead to similar issues as Marxism led to in the past.”

>> No.11073747
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11073747

>>11073723
He is only a psychologist, not remotely close to a philosopher. Even the role as a psychologist he managed to butcher for himself, making up quacky nonsensical diagrams that no one but himself can interpret. He's a wholesale hack.

>> No.11073770

>>11073700
have you read Maps of Meaning? Good luck putting that in the self-help section. 12 rules is an easy cash grab,sure, but do you blame him when his entire life as a professor is constantly on the line?

>> No.11073773

>>11073723
That undercurrent has always existed. It's more pronounced now due to wider news coverage and the unfortunate act of undergrads spewing their opinions on twitter, typically sprinkled with sociology 101 buzzwords. However, I agree that as a psychologist who studied counter-ethical behaviors during times of repressive regimes he would be seeing many red flags.

>> No.11073782

>>11073770
Yes, and map of meaning is a work that is the work of a retarded toddler who thought he could regurgitate Jung in a ""new"" way, thus ending up spewing complete nonsense

>> No.11073815

>>11073747
he taught at harvard for 5 years and has ten times the academic resume of people like you

>> No.11073830

>>11073747
i can interpret that actually

>> No.11073857
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11073857

>>11073815
And yet the hack that you worship is a quack, a cheap fraud

>> No.11073867
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11073867

>>11073723
>Peterson is more of a psychologist at times than a philosopher. Based on his own researches into the history and the psychology of mass totalitarian and communist movements...

>> No.11073873

>>11073857
What exactly is wrong with this?

>> No.11073893

>>11073661
Personally I don't like hearing opinions about philosophy or literature from Psychology majors. If his followers like it, more power to them, but this is a lit board.

>> No.11074176

>>11073770
take it to reddit no one gives a fuck about your fear of marxists and islam

>> No.11074197

>>11073661
he doesnt know what it means

>> No.11074201

>>11074197
this

>> No.11074208

>>11073687
communism beats postmodern neoliberal gynocracy hands down. Living in the USSR seems comfy compared to a YAS KWEEN SLAY corporate Hillary dystopia where the inquisition comes after you for refusing to attend Beyonce Mass.

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/4/24/17271638/hillary-clinton-chimamanda-ngozi-adichie-arthur-miller-freedom-write-pen-america-world-voices
We Went to “Beyoncé Mass” and It Was Glorious
>The notion of a Beyoncé mass ruffled some feathers, with conservative Christian voices mocking the idea or claiming the church was deifying Beyoncé—as if she’s not been deified already.


https://www.motherjones.com/media/2018/04/grace-cathedral-beyonce-mass-was-glorious/

>> No.11074209

>>11073661
>Pynchon and DFW are evil!!!

>> No.11074216

>>11073857
pathetic
all his tough-love talk and this guy can't even raise his own child to stand up against bullies
instead he's such a pussy that not only does he fantasize about beating up a child but he thinks he won by passive aggressively acting as though NOT beating him up was the ultimate revenge

fucking hilarious

>> No.11074218

>>11073857
The hell with that kid

>> No.11074220

>>11073661
He doesn't even know what postmodernism is, much less have any coherent thoughts on it. He thinks Marxism is somehow a postmodern ideology.

>> No.11074226

>>11074208
the only solution: go full pol pot on those postmodernists and blue hair paper pushing queers before they destroy everything we hold dear

>> No.11074238

I find his assertion that postmodernists and neo-Marxists derive their belief from a hatred of the successful to be overly pessimistic and extremely reductive. He's a psychologist, and while he's certainly well-read his grasp on the humanities is such that his criticisms evolve from an outsider's perspective. There is a streak of 'fuck the 1%' in humanities departments right now, but why shouldn't there be if the end goal is to work to raise the world out of poverty? That's the part of people's ideologies he seems to miss. I'm an English and Philosophy double major at a top 20 Uni (exactly the kind of place he rails against) and we've dedicated loads of time to discussing Marxist and postmodernist theory in both disciplines, and I've met many students who are sympathetic to the Marxist perspective. But I could count on one hand the number of people I've met who advocate for the total eradication of hierarchy in favor of fairness for the poor. The more common flavor of thought is that the rich have more than their fair share and the world's wealth is such that we can guarantee a certain standard of living for nearly everyone on the planet, and we're not doing that right now. It's a far more pragmatic and utilitarian moral argument that I often hear. Peterson often contends that the source of this desire for societal reconstruction is emotional, which he seems to base on his love for Nietzche's philosophy, but I disagree with him.

>> No.11074251

>>11073687
>this is basically the Hicks interpretation. Hicks has made the case that postmodernism's attempt at de-construction is the alternative strategy by which Marxists sought to assert their beliefs after the failure of numerous communist states. Many postmodern thinkers were or were aligned with Marxists and their philosophy can be interpreted as a tool in order to undermine traditional ideas.

>> No.11074254

>>11074208
postmodernism isnt 2018 liberal......

>> No.11074264

>>11074254
that's the logical conclusion to postmodernism plus social media dynamics. everything boils down to instant righteous satisfaction on social media. muh tru postmodern communists(tm) are a tiny minority of trustfund postgrad students who couldn't get woke media gigs and are actively hated by the rest of the left.

>> No.11074273

>>11074238
I think his main problem is that a combination of deconstructionist and neo-Marxist views boils the world down to merely meaningless power dynamics. I think we can all agree that this is a reductive POV as well, if not merely unsatisfying.

I agree that sometimes his belief that this will lead to a new communism sounds like he is grasping, but we have to remember that he started all this because there was a law being passed in Canada that legislated compelled speech on a completely subjective area (gender identity). He only got involved once it started to become law.

>> No.11074278

>>11073661
I kind of like Peterson and I kind of see how a bastardized version of postmodernism developed into that insane shit is being taught at colleges now, but Peterson should just read the postmodernists, man. He would realize that postmodernism inevitably leads to a kind of superior conservatism that doesn't take itself for granted. Good stuff.

>> No.11074281

>>11073661
We freezig again?

>> No.11074296

>>11074264
im not some lefty fag, but "postmodernism" has always been critical of those social media dynamics and woke media gigs and the things that underly them.

>> No.11074297

>>11074273
In his own clumsy suburban dad sort of way, Mr Peterson is trying to salvage the individualist protestant ethic that has sustained capitalism since the 17th century. The shift away from entrepreneurial individualism has probably more to do with changing technological and economic conditions than with muh sjws. The golden years of capitalism and the suburban middle class republic were anomalies, products of total mobilisation and the economic boom. If anything the post war liberal order is due for a reckoning with its own internal contradictions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIaN9Koa9oM

>> No.11074323

>>11074238
Peterson is ultimately an apologist for capitalism. conservative campus shock jocks exploit resentment towards muh sjws in order to promote blatantly unpopular ideas such as free market ideology and israeli foreign policy

>> No.11074324

>>11074264
The logical conclusion of postmodernism is actually fascism as that's the reaction to purple haired yas queens, but those are just a stage. Sjws are a stage for true fascism as capitalism is a stage to communism

>> No.11074333

>>11073661
From what I've listened to of him he seems to define the truth as having notting to do with what actually is (and definitely not what should be because utopian ideas are always dangerous and lead to chaos) but what "worked". The problem is he obviously has a superficial understanding of history that's totally ideologically loaded by his notion of original sin.
If you accept that the truth is just what "worked" historically then postmodernist notions are ipso facto wrong because they're disruptive. He's flipping Nietzsche on his head and saying not to live dangerously.

>>11073723
A "psychologist" doesn't need to employ transcendental notions like "evil". He's more of a preacher of a psychologicalized nu-christianity for the youtube generation. I don't really see the charisma in him you would expect to see in the founder of a new religion but if he plays his cards right he might be this generations Joseph Smith (or if things go badly Jim Jones).

>> No.11074339

>>11074238

The thought of an English major seriously discussing economics is deeply amusing. The thought of you and some other low IQers discussing how you'd run the world is deeply amusing

>> No.11074358

>>11074297
individualist capitalism predates the total mobilization of the 30’s which was welfare capitalism (welfare for workers and corps), individualist capitalism has two phases, 1850-1928 which is gilded age gangster capitalism and then 1960-2006 which is corporate raider, psychopathic finance capitalism; both relied on the state just ignoring everything the corporate world did. that’s why commie sentiment peaked in the 30’s and again in the early 10’s as people become extremely sensitive to corporate hegemony in public rhetoric

>> No.11074366

>>11073747
Why do you keep making these posts? Are you trolling? Just read the damn book and you can understand it.

>> No.11074367

But whatever it is that has made Dr Peterson a hero to so many, I do not think it is his prose style. Here is an example (page 201) of the higher Peterson: ‘Meaning is when everything there is comes together in an ecstatic dance of single purpose — the glorification of a reality so that no matter how good it has suddenly become, it can get better and better and better more and more deeply forever into the future.’ Ah.

Peter Hitchens

>> No.11074379

>>11074339
economics not only isn’t a science but isn’t at all a correct picture of how the world works, as that incorporates geo-politics, evo-bio and an intuitive understanding of hyper complex systems, none of which plays into economic models, and then of course the fact that economics cannot do experiments, has no controls and fails to make accurate predictions for major cataclysms or booms and further fails to address or expose weaknesses within its own system of thought and fails to notice internal contradictions within its models. For instance deutsch bank is broke and tech stocks are inflated, china is counterfeiting the value of its currency, and the world is slipping into credit card debt again, has anyone given a fuck in the treasury dept or fed reserve? no because they’re trying to boost stock market and the us dollar and artificially inflate
oil prices. is econ even capable of factoring in the almost random politically motivated manipulation of oil prices, currency or commodities? no. does economics account for fraud, embezzlement, tax evasion and terrorism? no. it can’t these are all externalities that disrupt the system. thus its got nothing to do with anything but what economists and the people who employ them (read parasitic monetary/fiscal officials, and mysterium betwitched firms) think it does, but what they think (see Lehman Brothers, See NM Rothschild, see Barings bank, See Lloyds, see Fannie Mae) has nothing to do with what they’re actually doing or will happen and of course they didn’t predict btc mooning, they didn’t predict trump winning, the money shows this to be the case, and they did not predict korean unification, they also don’t believe in climate change, and think there are no hard limits on computing. all signs of being a schizophrenic, useful bullshit field. also half the economists believe in free will, something even more lunatic

>> No.11074399

>>11073661
He tries to interpret current social/political movements in the light of totalitarianism of the past century, this approach is misleading and completely ignores where and when the seeds of this movements formed and why they happened, which inevitably leads him to blame their existence on some sort of lovecraftian entity known as "postmodernism". Not only that, but I would say that his inability to understand modern day woes, and thus his inability to prescribe an actual solution, stems from the fact that he himself plays by the rules of modern political discourse. He's like a man in the midst of a cyclon trying to tell you where the cyclon is heading. I guess his actual life advice isn't so bad considering that it provides a palliative for young people who need to be told to clean their room and the crux of it isn't that much interlinked with his political commentary, but unless you're someone who needs to be told to clean their room you won't find it much interesting. I find the work of Carl Schimtt, accompanied by a broad understanding of american political movements (such as the civil rights movements) and works of american political commentators such as Rorty (he basically predicted the structure of the modern day left to the letter) or Lasch, if you like that sort of thing, a much more useful framework for understanding what is going on. Overall I don't even think those 4 or 5 french intellectuals who go under the umbrella term of "postmodenism" are even that important when it comes to the modern american left/liberal side (Foucault aside, he's undeniably important) as I've found that they're more influenced by the ideas of sociologists such as Bourdieu, Anderson and Goffman (and obviously by american feminism). I fear listening to Peterson and blaming every problem in the world on some fabricated scary entity is going to have the only effect of turning you into another politicized tribal moron.
When in you find yourself in the midst of chaos the wisest thing to do is to take a step back and look at the situation from afar.

>> No.11074415

>>11074399
I forgot to add that you shouldn't take me too seriously as I'm not even american and my interest in american politics is that of a metaphorical anthropologist.

>> No.11074421

>>11073661
He uses postmodernism as a catch-all term for cultural trends he doesn't like and is blind to the chief causes of cultural decline: poor urban planning and economic policy.

>> No.11074424

>>11073687
>By conflating critical theory with full-blown communist agendas, you're not only misunderstanding the purpose of evaluative tools in public policy but also allowing yourself to be intellectually dishonest.

But critical theory IS a communist agenda.

>> No.11074431

>>11074424
Please, explain how.

>> No.11074439

>>11074424
>critical theory IS a communist agenda

You understand that critical theory isn't one thing, right? Adn that you're saying that critical interpretation of literature is a communist endeavor? You get that, right?

>> No.11074447

>>11074339
Why the repeat sentence structure? Too far out on the spectrum to formulate an organic reply, or just too stupid to come up with a better insult?

>> No.11074448

>>11074238
>postmodernists and neo-Marxists derive their belief
>postmodernists and neo-marxists have beliefs

>> No.11074460

Peterson has a very effective strategy for creating engagement and brand loyalty towards himself. People comment on all his videos on how they are straightening out their lives but in reality nothing has changed. He makes young men and teen boys feel like they are getting a grip on their lives but in reality he is giving them super easy tasks: clean your room, stand up straight, don't lie etc. Then people spend 15 minutes tidying up and think oh my god I've achieved so much all by myself! Instead of spending 10 hours watching Minecraft let's plays I can spend 10 hours watching Peterson rambling and feel like I'm doing good for myself hooray! In other words Peterson makes people with conscientiousness feel that they are sorting themselves out, but really they are practicing the most barebones life skills.

>> No.11074466

>>11074358
>’s why commie sentiment peaked in the 30’s and again in the early 10’s as people become extremely sensitive to corporate hegemony in public rhetoric
You sure it wasn't because the good times stopped and the country fell into historic recessions?

>> No.11074471

>>11074466
Not him, but I take it that people became critical of corporate hegemony because they saw it as the prime contributory cause of those horrible recessions.

>> No.11074479

>>11074448
>>postmodernists and neo-marxists have beliefs

Yes, that's why we have names which broadly signify the content of their beliefs.

>> No.11074501

his post-positivist idea of truth being impossible without presupposing axioms is pretty post-modernist. critique of the axioms in capitalism is what marx was doing.

he doesnt understand postmodernism because he thinks he holds a different position when he often finds common ground.

>> No.11074508

>>11074479
>not believing something is believing something

>> No.11074525

>>11074508
Believing that we shouldn't ascribe intrinsic meaning to constructed beliefs is very much a belief. What, do you think Nihilism isn't a belief either?

>> No.11074532

>>11074501
I think we found someone dumber than Peterson

>> No.11074549

>>11074208
>living in the USSR seems comfy
you have no concept of what that even means

>> No.11074552

>>11074525
>believing that we should x
I know that it's retarded. If you want to be retarded, be my guest because I dont believe you ought to do anything.
>ascribe intrinsic meaning
oxymoron. if a certain meaning was intrinsic, it wouldnt need ascribing.
>nihilism isnt a belief
it is, but it requires the least amount of assumptions, so it's the most rational belief

>> No.11074566

>>11074379
This post should be a sticky.

>> No.11074567

>>11074552
>if a certain meaning was intrinsic, it wouldnt need ascribing.

That's literally the point. Their belief is that no such meanings exist, and all meanings must be supplied extrinsically by us. Following that, we mistake those extrinsic beliefs for something deeper which exists independently of us. You're just agreeing with their assumption.

>> No.11074569

>>11074238
The true """Leftist""" would argue you're still just a liberal. Post-modernists and Marxists think hierarchy (information and political) are oppression. I don't know how you can draft an honest political or philosophical system if you literally think information is a tool for power. As always, POMO/Marxists have decent critiques of power, but their life-as-a-filter is a completely useless tool for examining life and implementing a functional political system. We are just living through a time where things are generally so good, that intellectual Leftists who fail at the system find ways to justify their inadequacy through calls for complete overhauls of the system. Sophistry makes sense once in a while but with no ability to implement, it ultimately provides zero value.

>> No.11074595

>>11074379
Honestly I can't wait for people like you to take hold of society (it won't happen, but still) and see how you fuck everything up.

>> No.11074602

>>11074552
you believe that other people should believe what you believe which is why you use your presuppositions to judge their nearness or farness from your beliefs

you can ascribe beliefs to hidden intrinsics which are covered up by obviated appearances

there are other things which are just as reductionist as nihilism, like materialist pragmatism and monistic theism

>> No.11074605

>>11074567
I know I'm agreeing with their assumption/"belief"
In my first post, I meant the other meaning of belief, ie an assumption of purpose or value rather than an assumption of fact

>> No.11074606

>>11074569
Where are those scary radical postmodern neomarxists Peterson won't shut up about? They honestly seem like cool people. SJWs aren't real revolutionaries, they are merely liberal narcissists trapped in a fundamentally therapeutic ideal of politics. The individual is reduced to a collection of labels, states of injury one should feel ashamed for and 'privileges' carrying their correspondent guilt. only the system and the culture industry can provide relief to the individuals by adequately 'representing' them and affirming their worth. Identity politics is the inevitable product of an atomized consumer society with internet access.

>> No.11074610

>>11074602
>you believe that other people should believe what you believe which is why you use your presuppositions to judge their nearness or farness from your beliefs
I don't. I'm prescribing no actions. I'm describing what assumptions a rational person would make.

>> No.11074635

>>11073687
/thread

>> No.11074638

>>11074605
>an assumption of purpose

Humans kinda need those to act. That's the foundation of our desires, and by extension, our reason for doing things. I mean you really can't claim that they don't have basic motivating values that inform their choice of belief structure.

>> No.11074640

>>11074610
that you are distinguishing between the number of assumptions a belief requires and assuming this counts for or against its validity is a sign that you’re lying to yourself and me

you’re falsely pretending to objectivity you couldn’t have and are not attempting to actually occupy and then setting up what you already wanted to believe as the zero-space naturalistic domain of rational thought that you just so happened to arrive at based on your own presuppositions about what could be correct or true

>> No.11074641

>>11074606
I absolutely agree with your critiques. I'm continually shocked by Leftists embracing the SJW cult as I feel like it ultimately diminishes the valid criticisms on power that you all can provide. Global neoliberalism has left people hollow, corporatized, and begging for meaning in life. I just personally tend to believe that sacrificing my individual desires to the hivemind of a syndicalist commune is no more life-giving than what we currently have. That's why despite agreeing with some Marxist critiques, I don't find myself wanting to buy into the whole program something that Foucault also abandoned as he grew older. I literally feel like we're in a time where capitalism, marxism and fascism have all failed to bring the stable and prosperous societies we were hoping to achieve in our modern, heterogeneous world. In that respect, I like Peterson's desire to give people a personal concept of meaning again regardless of the /lit/erati's hatred of pseud. Meaning in life is the cost of hypercapitalism and corporate-fueled multiculturalism.

>> No.11074647

>>11074606
>Identity politics is the inevitable product of an atomized consumer society with internet access.
so why is it relevant only in america and some nordic countries

>> No.11074651

>>11074647
it exists everywhere techne reaches late metamorphic stages of development, nordic, uk, france and america are the most socio-economically advanced nations, china is still ass backwards and unevolved, despite the strong gdp and high iq. and also a giant bug hive consolidated around extreme authoritarianism. but they’re seeing social justice movements too, though less so because of their homogeneity and stifling social customs

>> No.11074671

>>11074651
>it exists everywhere
Yes, but I asked "why is it relevant", I never implied that it doesn't exist. Learn to read and stop throwing walls of jargon at mean please

>> No.11074688

>>11074640
>that you are distinguishing between the number of assumptions a belief requires and assuming this counts for or against its validity
>what is occams razor
>>11074638
our will isnt an assumption. it's very verifiable.
Religion and many ideologies assume a higher purpose.

>> No.11074699

He doesn't understand that post-structuralism is dated in today's academic landscape. The 80s saw the rise of affect theory, then into the 90s we got the "turn" to historiography, the "turn" to transnationalism, the turn to theology and now, arguably the turn to love. Humanities institutes are far too fragmented now. The post-modernist have been canonized for their influence, but seldom will you see people who completely subscribe to the thinkers. You'll see a Foucault quote or Derrida quote, but amidst perhaps Kant and Plato quotes or Freud and Nietzsche references.

>> No.11074704

>>11074688
>our will isnt an assumption. it's very verifiable.

I think we're in agreement and our discord is a vernacular issue.

>> No.11074717

>>11074688
Humans are irrational and irrevocably constrained by their circumstances, you aren't a pure disembodied Cartesian cogito but a human, all too human, sitting before a keyboard and a glowing computer screen, ignorant of its very multiplicity and wishing he were a rational robot to which being is not disturbing or mysterious in any way.

>> No.11074721

>>11074699
>You'll see a Foucault quote or Derrida quote, but amidst perhaps Kant and Plato quotes or Freud and Nietzsche references.

Absolutely. I mean shit, I hear a hell of a lot more Kierkegaard in lectures than I do most post-modernists with perhaps the sole exception of Foucault. But then, Foucault was an absolute genius and deserves the veneration he gets.

>> No.11074725

>>11074717
robots don’t have ontic status so being is nothing and they don’t have cognition or self-consciousness. if they did they would be artificial intelligence or synthetic sapient life instead of automata

>> No.11074730

>>11074725
fuck off, heidegger

>> No.11075043

>>11074641
>I just personally tend to believe that sacrificing my individual desires to the hivemind of a syndicalist commune is no more life-giving than what we currently have.

what about rejecting mass culture and industrial society entirely? no one is born an individual, individuality has to be created and nurtured. we live under a cybernetic system that is geared towards keeping people in a constant state of fear and dependency, even Peterson plays into it, playing on your insecurities and offering familiar reassuring fantasies about a world that never was. in the end Dr. Peterson wants you to get married and move to a nice house in the suburbs with 2.5 kids and a golden retriever, he wants you to be an 'entrepreneur' or at least a good employee and take your daily dose of tv and antidepressants, but what happens after the divorce what happens after the kids go away? And that's assuming the current economic conditions will ever allow for a nostalgic re-do of midcentury comfort. Peterson is Jung for suburban boomers.

but, what if we could rewire the system to foster Life and the Good?

>> No.11075499

He's not wrong on Post-modernism, he flat doesn't know what it is.

>> No.11075574

>>11075043
>rejecting mass culture and industrial society
explain what that actually means in a non-meme fashion
>get married, nice house in suburbs with kids and a golden retriever
sounds pretty /comfy/, what alternative to this lifestyle is objectively better as our routine goal for the average person

>> No.11075580

>>11074699
>and now, arguably the turn to love.

what did you mean by this?

>> No.11075586

>>11074324
I really, really like this post.

>> No.11075738

>>11075043
the thing is the alternative is to be an alcoholic with a double-transgendered boyfriend who is stupid as fuck, you work on digital marketing cause you don't actually have the brain to even "live the life" and sell malware to iran.

As you grow wold you are either grow out of the rebellious crap or see it transform into resentment. The 2.5 kids and golden retriever aren't just mirages, like your rebellious spirit is, they have names, even the dog, and he brings you your slippers and barks at niggers and fat ladies in the street, he's a pal, and the day he dies you are gonna cry like a motherfucker and understand what love is.

In the meantime if you are lucky you gonna find a stable job where your boss will become your goofy friend who you kinda control but don't let him know, he won't kick you or fuck you over with your salary, he will distribute nice and invite you to become an associate one day.

You don't need a TV nor pills, thats another meme, you don't do those things if you develop discipline. You will jog or play football and read books about some obscure historical crap nobody but you gives a fuck.

The system is wired to foster Life and the Good, the problem is you got suplanted a real vision of this with jew propaganda and black resentment-based art.

>> No.11075742

>>11073687
Pretty much this
Post-modernists are just as critical of communism (a modernist ideology) as anything else. You don't have to like it, but at least face facts.

>> No.11075747

none of them are evil doe, is just natural that blacks see the golden retriever and don't get it, its a fucking hard fact of life but they got there as slaves, it was never their system, and it isn't even now that the system is trying its best to acommodate, and they are waking up to it. They have another dream, and its on their hands to actualize it.

and the jews aren't bad either, they are just, well, jews, the american dream is an anglo-protestan dream

>> No.11075758

>>11075043
>people who live in a nice house with 2.5 kids and a golden retriever take antidepressant
why do I keep coming to this den of pseuds?

>> No.11075762

and in the case of latinos, latinamerica could've worked if the big civilizations had more time, or if monarchism didn't fall in europe; the importation of republics into the culturally conquered but geographical hostile zone fucked all up, it never got to the population density needed to exhert full control and give way for less authoritarian systems of organization

>> No.11075786

>>11073687

>word salad
>buzzwords
>no logic
>no argument
>no evidence
>ad hominem
>UR WRONG

*yawn*

Why is every Communist such a milquetoast intellectual?

>> No.11075802

>>11075786
>that is "word salad"
I haven't read a single marxist book in my entire life and I was able to perfectly understand that
Are you retarded?

>> No.11075806

>>11075802

It's word salad because it's absent of real content, not because it's unintelligible. I understood it too. He spouted some opinions without any attempt to justify any of it and then threw in some insults to boot, he may have just spouted some slogans.

>> No.11076414

>>11074238
>top 20 Uni (exactly the kind of place he rails against)
His career is teaching at those, though.

>> No.11076439

>>11076414
>His career is teaching at those, though.

Yes, but he's a psychology professor. He constantly claims that humanities departments have become 'social justice warrior' factories. He even explicitly blames university PC culture for producing society's ills among young people. Kinda demeaning to the autonomy of his students if you ask me, but hey, whatever.

>> No.11076441

>>11074460
Also the fact that Peterson fanboys have very similar attitudes as those sjws they look down upon. If a Peterson fan disagrees with you they will tell you to clean your room or rescue your father instead of debating you, the same way a sjw will call someone a racist or a bigot.

>> No.11076443

>>11076439
Cn's say I really disagree. The relationship universities have to the workforce and social mobility alone destroys any autonomy most students could have.

>> No.11076463

>>11075806
What insults? What would you call a misrepresentation of reality for the purpose of winning an intellectual battle if it's not 'intellectually dishonest'? Nowhere does he attempt to reconcile what is really said, nor that there may be some greater reason why this is happening.
It's pseudo-intellectual slander, a conservative establishment conspiracy theory, so no one should be surprised if he gets the same back in return. Intellectual dishonesty is the least he should be accused of.

>> No.11076485

>>11074569
Hierarchy is solely political, dumbass. Is definited as one person being given power over another. A handful of oligarchs have the legal right to over 30% of all profit generated, without having to do any work. They're the owners and the company serves them. That's not them being "successfull".

>> No.11076489

>>11076443
>The relationship universities have to the workforce and social mobility alone destroys any autonomy most students could have

I absolutely agree with that, but that's not Peterson's claim. His is that the humanities have turned into a propaganda center for things like LGBTQ acceptance and have taught people that personal responsibility is to be derided. That hasn't been my experience at all, and I think writers like Judith Butler have made valuable contributions to our culture over the last 30 years. Consequently, I disagree with Peterson on this count.

>> No.11076502

>>11075806
You replied to the wrong person. Did you mean to reply to OP?

Probably the best summary of Peterson in this thread

>> No.11076557

>>11076489
I think the two are related to some extent. I know academics don't like to think of themselves as powerful in anyway, but when it comes down to it, many young people are completely willing to sacrifice any financial autonomy they could have in the near future in order to attend. That alone gives them a great deal of power, and their refusal to be honest (these are highly intelligent people, they're well aware) about it disgusts me a little bit. Everything about the university environment encourages a certain political homogenization, and humanities departments tend to lead that charge.
>That hasn't been my experience at all, and I think writers like Judith Butler have made valuable contributions to our culture over the last 30 years.
If think providing the intellectual justifications for the mob authoritarian neoliberal e-panopticon we currently live in is positive then I don't know what to say. Then again, you do attend some fancy school, and some people are just too tied up in the system to recognize its evils.
Other than that, she has nothing of value to offer.

>> No.11076571

>>11076557
Yeah, nah, I hate the fact that university education has essentially become required reading to be an active participant in western society. I hate the university system in general. It's evil, as far as I'm concerned. But that's institutional, not departmental. I've never met a humanities professor who claimed that everyone should try to get a humanities education. They'll defend its value, as would I, but whenever I've discussed my views on the frivolity of higher education they've largely agreed. The fact of the matter is that people who aren't truly interested in higher education have no place in higher education, as the quality of their work output will never match that of their peers who chose to attend. All 90% of people are getting out of this is a bunch of broadly useless information and debt. But again, not Peterson's claim. I haven't been indoctrinated by anything, nor have my peers.

>> No.11076586

>>11076571
Institutional evil encourages departmental evil. Just look into any progressive discourse going on these days; it's become so standardized that it's near impossible for it not to have some sort of centralized origin.

>> No.11076604

>>11076586
That's just ideology in general, conservative discourse is the same way. You can't expect every participant in a conversation to offer an informed and original opinion, since the are fewer and fewer left each day. Rather, being able to boil down ideologies to their tenants makes them easier to broadly promote.

>> No.11076631

>>11076586
> it's become so standardized that it's near impossible for it not to have some sort of centralized origin

Wait til you see (((language))), (((science))) and (((memes)))

>> No.11077411

he says that derrida and foucault and critical theory guys are progressives when they are not. its just dumb burger scholars who spew SJW garbage
http://tandfonline.com/toc/ufts20/current
http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5325/jaynrandstud.17.1.issue-1
http://www.tandfonline.com/action/journalInformation?show=aimsScope&journalCode=cjwr20&
http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/rprn20/current

>> No.11077424

>>11074238
>raise the world out of poverty?
Primitive african tribes life a happy life with a real GDP per capita of 0$. In the West, you not only require a large sum of money, you also require social and genetic capital to succeed.
Overpopulation will be a problem in 100 years.
If we end technology and reduce the population, end the State, we might go somewhere that isn't ww3

>> No.11077425
File: 129 KB, 900x729, shit.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11077425

>>11074379

>> No.11077447

>>11074379
Excellent post.

>> No.11077464
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11077464

>>11073687
But you have to admit that man on post-modernism is a rabid animal? How else do you live when all you believe in is power?

>> No.11077833

>>11075758
they do though

>> No.11077842
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11077842

>>11077464
powerful...

>> No.11077856
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11077856

>>11074208
>Avengers: Infinity War’s superheroes, explained by an evolutionary biologist
>How Avengers: Infinity War poses questions about evolution, genetics, and artificial intelligence.

>> No.11078235

>>11074339
>these are the type of people critiquing postmodernism and Marxism

>> No.11078252

>>11073782
You didn't read it.

>> No.11078263

>>11073770
>do you blame a tenured professor making 30k/month via patreon on the side for pushing out kitschy bullshit
unironically yes, peterstein’s a fag

>> No.11078284

>>11074595
>I have no argument so I'll just keep calling you dumb over and over
I'm actually more inclined to agree with you here but holy fuck could you be any more of lazy disingenuous faggot?

>> No.11078314

>>11076441
!!11

>> No.11078333

>>11077464
You live for yourself, not for a surrogate dad who sells you scams.

If the only reason you're motivated is because of a hierarchy to obey, you need therapy.

>> No.11078395

>>11077856
I don't even have political views, I read vox and the nyt every morning so I can spend my day becoming everything that takes shitlibs' sleep at night everything the coastal media elites hate and fear. It'snot even a question of left vs right, this is who I am now.

>> No.11078468

>>11078395
i don´t care about peterson but i´m glad he´s talking shit about the SJWs, at least someone from the academia has the balls to declare war to them

>> No.11078565

Peterson is a fucking genius. Maps of Meaning is an absolute masterpiece and most people forget that it was published in 1999. This dude has been studying this shit longer than most of you faggots have even been alive. Look no further than his biblical lectures to see the lengths this guy has gone to hone his craft.