/M&D/ Mason & Dixon Reading Group Week 2

[Anonymous No.10954974]

1st Editions Edition

Chapters 5 - 12

Annotations
>https://masondixon.pynchonwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mason_%26_Dixon_-_Page_by_Page_Annotation

Schedule in second post,
There is plenty of time to catch up if you want to join - Week 1 is only 35 pages.

[Anonymous No.10954976]

[Anonymous No.10955019]

>>10954974
Why are certain words capitalised? Is that just how people wrote back then?

[Anonymous No.10955040]

>>10955019
[capitalization]
At first there seems to be no discernible pattern: caps seem accented to be rhythmically stressed, as in reading poetry.

Uncapitalised nouns in the first paragraph include: shoes, slaps, afternoon, rear, years, table, side-benches, branch, family.

Capitalised abstract nouns include: Arcs, Sides, Descent, Dither, Fly.

The pattern: Significant nouns, reflective of the Germanic roots of Old English. To this day all nouns are capitalized in German, and it was still normal to capitalise nouns in early 18th century English writing - Robinson Crusoe contains a bare handful of uncapitalised nouns, apparently overlooked by the typographer.

By the later 18th century the more familiar nouns - household and familiar objects, indeterminate nouns and those requiring less emphasis when read aloud - were left uncapitalised.

There is a tangential grammatical advantage in that it helps discriminate homonyms - secret is an adjective, Secret is a noun, venture is a verb, Venture is a noun.

[Anonymous No.10955599]

>"More like a Transit of Mars...?"

I like that exchange at the end of Ch. 4, it seemed clever. Have to admit I just finished week 1's reading though :)

[Anonymous No.10956055]

On the second page of chapter eight in the second paragraph there seems to be a break in the pattern in which all words that would generally have the suffix “-ic” are this replaced with “-ick”. I’m uncertain whether this is intentional due to the grammatical origins of the word or just a mistake by Pynchon.

[Anonymous No.10956066]

>>10956055
An example of the replacement of “-ic” with “-ick”

[Anonymous No.10956163]

>>10956055
>>10956066
dont know if you're the same anon or not but it would seem to be similar to what is described here >>10955040
though if it doesnt happen again i would guess the editor or whoever corrected it by mistake

[Anonymous No.10956402]

>>10954974
>>10954976
nice thread! I just started chapter 5, I like it so far but am still unsure of how everything will unfold..

[Anonymous No.10956419]

>>10956402
the go sledding, wander through smokey bars, see giant vegetables, one of their own falls in love witha hypersonic robot duck, political intrigue with Jacobins, someone swallows a clock, dixon dies, mason is genuinely sad for once the end there I spared you 700 pages

[Anonymous No.10956421]

just picked this up at the library im sure ill regret it. ur all gay

[Anonymous No.10956426]

>>10956419
This fucking guy again lol, we're only in it for the capitalization.

[Anonymous No.10956433]

>>10956426
oh soz, enjoy yourselves

[Anonymous No.10956567]

>>10956421
Welcome.


Does anyone have the link for the notes from that 90's IRC group?

[Anonymous No.10957102]

whats ‘y’r obs’t s’v’t’ or whatever the fuck in chapter 2

[Anonymous No.10957116]

>>10957102
"your obstinate servant"

[Anonymous No.10957248]

>>10956055
>>10956066
He's emulating syntax found in novels around the 18th and early 19th centuries.

Everything is intentional; Pynchon makes no mistakes.

[Anonymous No.10957267]

Just started chapter 14. This book is maximum comfiness. I cant wait to read it on the deck when it gets warm outside.

btw these Ive found these chapter summaries helpful:
https://www.swarthmore.edu/Humanities/pschmid1/engl52b/m-d1.html

[Anonymous No.10957498]

Just finished chapter 4. How does one even discuss literature? I haven't taken a literature class since high school and it just dawned on me that even though I read a lot I have a hard time putting into words the way I feel about a book. I am loving this setting so far, really can't wait to get it rolling in the coming weeks. Is there a history reading list for everything Pynchman read to come up with this?

[Anonymous No.10957969]

>>10957498
>Is there a history reading list for everything Pynchman read to come up with this?

There is definitely not an official known list of references (or any guesswork that I've seen), just because of the way Pynchon is such a recluse.
It's pretty impressive that it was written pre-wikipedia, considering the amount of small details and obscure historical artifacts.
The annotations on the wiki are good but nowhere near complete.

I'm also interested if anyone has an idea as to which specific books might have informed him, or inspired the style of the language.

[Anonymous No.10957977]

>talking dog

dropped

[Anonymous No.10958193]

>>10957267
Nice resource, thanks - this is my second read and I'm trying to dive a bit deeper.

[Anonymous No.10958201]

>>10957977
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYzMYcUty6s

[Anonymous No.10958499]

>>10957102
>>10957116
I'm pretty sure it's "your obedient servant"

[Anonymous No.10958541]

Going to sleep lads, don't die on me thread!

[Anonymous No.10958596]

Was that supposed to be fourth wall breaking near the end of chapter 7 when Dixon is talking about them being Lodgers in someone else's fate?

[Anonymous No.10958807]

>>10957248
I understand that he's doing that intentionally but I believe that's one of the only cases that happens in the book, where it's "geographically" and not "geographickally". He's remarkably consistent with other words like mathematicks and such.

[Anonymous No.10959109]

>>10958596
Could you even define breaking the fourth wall in this story, like maybe there is 2 or 3 fourth walls now that I'm thinking about it.

[Anonymous No.10960075]

bump

[Anonymous No.10960740]

This books so good, man

[Anonymous No.10961616]

>>10960740
It actually is so good my man.

[Anonymous No.10962338]

Somebody was talking in the last thread about Dixon's "...?" peculiarity. Does anybody have an example or description of what that is supposed to be?

[Anonymous No.10962514]

>>10962338
I only noticed it once so far but it seemed to me like he was somehow indicating that he made a declaration as sort of a question. I imagined him raising his eyebrows and tilting his head a bit inquisitively maybe, like to say "and what do you think about that?", instead of it being a vocal thing, that was just my own idea but maybe someone understands the book better than me.
Another thing to consider is that Pynchon does not always indicate who is speaking for long stretches, perhaps it is also a way to indicate that it is Dixon.

[Anonymous No.10962545]

>>10962338
I just think of it as a verbal tic.

[Anonymous No.10963062]

>>10962514
It's used in almost every instance of Dixon's speech around chapter 11, even in cases where its unlikely he meant it as a question. Somebody in the last thread indicated it was a Geordie thing, but I listened to some Geordie accents and didn't notice it

[Anonymous No.10963472]

Also, does anyone know what Pynchon means when he writes the word “Ob”?

[Anonymous No.10963581]

>>10963472
Astronomick observations

[Anonymous No.10963591]

>>10954974
THIS THREAD WILL DIE AND NOT ACT AS A MARTYR FOR ALL /LIT/ DISCUSSION THREADS AND ANY BOOK DISCUSSION GATHERING FOR THAT MATTER IF THIS POST CATCHES NO ONE'S ATTENTION

come on, guys... Let's talk about Els "nether Orbs," or how Mason's "Member, still erect from the posterior Attentions of her youngest Daughter." Lets talk about any of the daughters and how Mason interacts with them and Rebekah.

Not just >talking dog >>10957977
but how the L.E.D is kind of how most of Pynchon's men (and Pynchon?) view women, too. They know so much but do not let on, like Esther in V. who literally sees a kids life flash before her eyes when he comes up to her at a party (that life of his by the way is a great example and tackling of an artist living both lives but never being good at one).

Let's talk about whether you see more of mason in yourself or dixon or both. Are you more melancholic? Does Pynchon write for himself?

"Of the three Sisters, she seems devoted most unreflectively to the Possibilities of Love" (62). "I sought distraction in the study of other Lives" (86). "His jealousy nonetheless more peevish than substantial" (87). "when he meets her Gaze, she immediately switches it away with a look of annoyance, not with Mason, it pleases him to fancy, so much as with herself, for happening to be the one caught staring,-- there being scores of good reasons why no further degree of Fascination will develop from this" (111). "'Newton is my Deity,' Dixon rather blurts" (116).

[Anonymous No.10963879]

>>10963591
When I read through those pages later on today I'll have a few thoughts. I haven't specifically considered Pynchon's views or portrayal of women before - but it does seem kind of peculiar.
You could add Hepsie from chapter 3 the psychic/sybil to the list of women who know more than they let on.

[Anonymous No.10964068]

>>10963879
yessir, good call. get back to me.

[Anonymous No.10965029]

>>10963591
I thought it was interesting how Mason is assailed by the Dutch girls at the same part of the story in which he observes the transit of Venus (love God, if that's not obvious)

[Anonymous No.10965822]

>>10965029
I liked that too. Here and elsewhere Pynchon occasionally gets into astrology and Venus of course isn’t just seen in Greco-Roman times but in Shakespeare and in Schopenhauer. I liked what the former had to say about men between the ages 20-30 (they’re pretty much wholly given up to Venus and love). After that, their men of Mars. Pynchon seems to be this way, V. having more romantic relationships than GR, and then M&D

[Anonymous No.10966912]

Where is everyone as far as page number or chapter, I feel like I am reading this book real slowly.

[Anonymous No.10967160]

>>10966912
The schedule is way too slow for me, but I'm sure increasing the number of pages/week would prevent some people from participating. I'm at 250.

[Anonymous No.10967397]

Bump

[Anonymous No.10967654]

Ketjap = ketchup???

[Anonymous No.10967975]

Petition to replace history textbooks with Pynchman novels

[Anonymous No.10968344]

>anchovie pizza

[Anonymous No.10968360]

Reading this makes me feel like a real brainlet

[Anonymous No.10968551]

>>10968360
I'm pretty sure Pynchon's particular flavor of mk-ultra cures brainlet.

[Anonymous No.10969217]

I always really appreciate the double and triple levels of interpretation for names in pinecones books, and how the meanings are sometimes reflected in the characters actual storylines. Also, I wish I was clever enough to figure one of them out before reading the annotations.

[Anonymous No.10969474]

>>10967654
google thinks its soy sauce, but I'm going to say yes, ketchup

[Anonymous No.10969604]

>>10967654
>>10969474
I think Pynchon is punning by getting you to think it's ketchup, but it's actually a kind of Indonesian soy sauce (kecap), which makes the pizza even more gross than it initially seems.

[Anonymous No.10970539]

bump

[Anonymous No.10971131]

>>10967654
>>10969474
>>10969604
>In the 17th century, the Chinese mixed a concoction of pickled fish and spices and called it (in the Amoy dialect) kôe-chiap or kê-chiap (鮭汁, Mandarin Chinese guī zhī, Cantonese gwai1 zap1) meaning the brine of pickled fish (鮭, salmon; 汁, juice) or shellfish.[6] By the early 18th century, the table sauce had made it to the Malay states (present day Malaysia and Singapore), where it was tasted by English colonists. The Malaysian-Malay word for the sauce was kicap or kecap (pronounced "kay-chap"). That word evolved into the English word "ketchup".[7] English settlers then took ketchup with them to the American colonies

It is a predecessor to ketchup. Pynchon doesn't make many things up in this novel.

[Anonymous No.10971192]

>>10971131
>predecessor to ketchup

If you're going by etymology. It is in no way similar to ketchup other than that it is a sauce.

[Anonymous No.10972055]

[Spoiler]tfw no attentive wife to give you treats while you smoke weed[/Spoiler]

[Anonymous No.10972571]

just finished chap 4.

whos paying for the ship and crew?

[Anonymous No.10973381]

>>10972571
Probably the Royal Society, if not by contract then by giving M&D the funds. I know later Mason pays for transit himself but only up the coast of st helena

[Anonymous No.10974680]

bump

[Anonymous No.10974843]

Just finished chapter 12. Loved the part on astronomers anticipating the transit of venus, same for the girls visiting the observatory, was the first time they felt childish. Also remembering how the story "starts with a hanging" which at first seemed like the beginning of Mason and Dixon meeting and giving bad first impressions but only now do we see why Mason went to them and how those happened before the "story". Also who is narrating these chapters? The woman who got imprisoned by Turks?

[Anonymous No.10975843]

Bump

[Anonymous No.10976323]

>>10974843
Cherrycoke narrates everything except the LeSpark family scenes. He's making a lot of it up on the spot because he didn't actually spend that much time with Mason and Dixon, he's just trying to keep the kids entertained so he doesn't get kicked out.

[Anonymous No.10977786]

Is there a guide somewhere as to how M&D are doing their measurements? I'd be really interested in it, but it's been two years since I took an astronomy course

[Anonymous No.10978710]

>>10971192
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29u_FejNuks&ab_channel=Townsends
You're correct in that it's not a similar condiment, but he's right about the historical origins.

[Anonymous No.10978779]

I liked the part where the dog talked

[Anonymous No.10979741]

bump

[Anonymous No.10980297]

Almost week 3, if anyone wants to suggest general topicks of discussion for the next thread go ahead, I know a few people are ahead in the reading.

[Anonymous No.10980298]

>>10978779
yes

[Anonymous No.10980454]

I find Mason's general outlook and malaise far too relatable for comfort

[Anonymous No.10981384]

>>10980454
Mason the emo beta, Dixon the chad ex-quaker

[Anonymous No.10983110]

bump

[Anonymous No.10983322]

>>10954974
Why is that cover so iconic

[Anonymous No.10984690]

>>10983322
All of pinches 1st editions are really nice imo

[Anonymous No.10986220]

last bump before new thread >

[Anonymous No.10986774]

>>10986770
>>10986770
>>10986770
New Thread Lads
>>10986770
>>10986770
>>10986770