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10880240 No.10880240 [Reply] [Original]

When Socrates is talking about the guardians and the philosopher kings is he talking about the same class of people?

>> No.10880251

>>10880240
Yes

>> No.10880265

>>10880240

I think the guardians were certainly elite, but not kings in any level. They were supposed to be this kind of drafted, or unwilling political force of the elite, composed of philosophers of course but in mere servitude of the state, not ruling it. I always thought Plato had some really weird Rousseau thing going on here, not unlike the latter when he says people ought to be "forced to be free".

>> No.10880270

>>10880251
No he wasn’t, for fucks sake. The guardians are an elite class of celibate eunuchs who were bred from birth to master philosophy. They, in turn, select the philosopher king, the one “qualified” to run the republic.

>> No.10880290

>>10880251
no

the guardians are supposed to guard the city, it's pretty fucking self explanatory. the philosopher kings were the best guardians who proved themselves through life and at old age are chosen to run the city

>> No.10880294

>>10880270
>>10880290
Ok so the philosopher kings are a subset of the guardians?

>> No.10880308

>>10880294
No, the manager who is promoted from the workers isn't a subset of the workers. The philosopher king is above the guardians, he becomes a different class when he is chosen to run the city

>> No.10880922

bump

>> No.10881760

>>10880270
>celibate eunuchs

>> No.10882823

He clearly states that the guardians had a soul of silver and the kings one of gold, you retard.

>> No.10882858

>>10880265
shut the fuck up
>>10880270
this is wrong, at no point does he say that the rulers are eunachs or celibate
>>10880294
no he’s just making stuff up
>>10882823
gonna punch you in the third eye

the guardians and auxiliaries are trained together from birth, till 18 they’re taught arithmetic and language skills, at 18 they’re instructed in military matters, intense combat training, those who fail this are workers and sent down, the next stage is training at 20 in arithmetic, geometry, solid geometry, and finally astronomy and harmonics. at 30 they’re tested, the best among this group become candidates to be guardians and they will have to master the dialectic, from 35 to 50 they are required to rule the city as guardians if they pass the dialectic test, finally at 50-55 the guardians retire from ruling and become dedicated philosophers

ALL guardians and auxiliaries breed at predetermined fertility festivals, their children are kept in common, all children born from the women at these festivals are considered their kids within 9 months of their birth, to prevent incest and bad breeding. Women can become guardians too but they will need to master the dialectic at 30. Most auxuliaries fail their training after 20 when maths are taught. There are no eunuchs and guardians rule as an aristocracy, if only one guardian is selected at 30 for dialectic training then he becomes a philosopher king. Plato oscillates between exalting PK’s and an enlightened aristocracy, going so far as to group timarchy and monarchy together as good constitutions, as they are aristocratic, read: eugenic

please cut off fingers for me all of you