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/lit/ - Literature


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10812217 No.10812217 [Reply] [Original]

>classics that you are reading right now
>expected future readings
>favourite classic text so far

Compulsory, but tell me if these are outdated:
CHARTS
Start with the Greeks
>https://i.warosu.org/data/lit/img/0086/04/1476211635020.jpg (Essential Greek Readings)
>https://i.warosu.org/data/lit/img/0099/17/1503236647667.jpg (Start with the Greeks 1)
>https://i.warosu.org/data/lit/img/0098/47/1501831593974.jpg (Start with the Greeks 2)

Resume with the Romans
>https://i.warosu.org/data/lit/img/0103/04/1511545983811.png (More thorough than the other two)

>https://i.warosu.org/data/lit/img/0080/46/1463433979055.jpg (Resume with the Romans 1)
>https://i.warosu.org/data/lit/img/0086/97/1478569598723.jpg (Resume with the Romans 2)

>> No.10812601

I'm about to jump into Aristotle's denser works (Organon, Physics, Metaphysics), any tips/anything i should know going in?

>> No.10812610

>>10812217
>Essential Greek Readings
>infograph recommends Kenneth W Harl
fucking yes you right, his lectures are amazing. also a correction: the Landmark Xenophon does exist now.

>> No.10813067

>>10812610
Only xenophontis hellenika though, right?

>> No.10813091

>>10812610
He's fantastic, and when the historic details are there to furnish them, his manner of explaining ancient battle tactics is unrivaled in clarity compared to any other source I've come across.

>> No.10813323
File: 227 KB, 900x900, bibliothc3a8que-idc3a9ale-des-philosophes-antiques-livre.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10813323

Just got 'Bibliothèque idéale des philosophes antiques: De Pythagore à Boèce'.

It's an anthology of ancient philosophy. What makes it special is that it goes up all the way to Boethius. Most of these sorts of books stop at the year 250 or thereabouts which is endlessly frustrating.

I consider a sort of 'bugout' book. If I ever have to go on the run, this is the sort of book I want with me. Perfect for a long vacation too.

I don't think something like this exists in English, or am I wrong?

>> No.10813340

Lesbians are very irritating. Mainly because they seem to think they are an authentic orientation and non simply developmentally stunted

>> No.10813356
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10813356

I really want to read this

>> No.10814148
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10814148

>>10812217
Currently making my way through
>pic related
Read: Grapes, Three Men
Reading: Sherlock
Next: Suggestions?

>> No.10814163

>>10814148
Wrong classics for this thread, but I'd suggest Tess, call of the wild or treasure island next.

>> No.10814167

Is Latin worth learning? I did a GCSE in it (qualification at 16 in England) and got an A but I couldn’t do it any further because it wasn’t offered. Anyone fluent in Latin find it worthwhile?

>> No.10814218

>>10814167
Depends what you mean by worth it. You likely won't get a job or praise or women because you know Latin. But personally, it's worth it in itself. It's interesting and fun to study. You can learn Latin for years and still have something new to learn.
There is also thousands of years of literature to read.

>> No.10814238

Why do I need Herodotus before Platon, lads?

>> No.10814241
File: 167 KB, 1440x1080, loeb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10814241

>>10814167

If you're really into Latin literature, it's definitely worth it. Nothing beats reading something in its original tongue.

>> No.10814250

>>10814238

You can read Plato first.
You could make some chronological argument, but Plato is fine first.

>> No.10814284

Just got an Everyman's edition of the Discourses of Epictetus, it looks really nice.

>> No.10814305
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10814305

this any good?

>> No.10814309

>>10814305
(comparid with other translations)

>> No.10814326
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10814326

>>10814305

>>10814305

The maps and appendices make it a must have. The paperback version isn't very expensive either.

>> No.10814374

>>10814326
hardcover worth it in this case?

>> No.10814386

Classics major who isn’t going to read a word from this shit thread bc lesbians are gay and cringe. Thanks

Tumblr lgbtlmnop can die :)

>> No.10814397

>tumblr screenshot
>no one says anything

>> No.10814398
File: 242 KB, 590x902, meditations.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10814398

>>10814305
I'm currently reading Herodotus' Landmark Histories and it's amazing.

>>10814326
How much do the paperbacks cost? Especially the Alexander one?

Btw, does anyone know where can I buy this edition of Aurelius' Meditations (pic related)?

>> No.10814400

>>10814374

I'm not sure. Years back there was a problem with the glue on the paperbacks. Pages would start falling out if you bent the spine too much. I think they solved it though. Hardcover might be a safer bet if you are hard on your books. Price might also be a consideration. The hardback will be heavier too. Something to consider if you plan on bringing the book with you when you go out.

>> No.10814403

>>10814374

Do they even still sell the hardcover?
Are you buying used?

>> No.10814411
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10814411

>>10814398
>How much do the paperbacks cost? Especially the Alexander one?

On Amazon in Canada the price has been between 20 and 30 for most of the year.

>> No.10814416

>>10814411

Most of the last twelve months I should say.

>> No.10814423

>>10813323
>Just got 'Bibliothèque idéale des philosophes antiques: De Pythagore à Boèce'.
Il en vaut la peine ?

>> No.10814430

>>10814423


Pour moi, oui. J'aime presque toutes les écoles de philosophie anciennes.

>> No.10814435

>>10812217
I've never been on a tumblr or reddit page that didn't make me want to immediately kill myself. This is another great example.

>> No.10814451

>>10814430
A la place de lire les traductions des textes originaux ou en complément ?

>> No.10814453

>>10814403
They sell it here(Netherlands) for 37 euros.

>> No.10814480

>>10814326
>>10814411
I have all hardcovers but the alexander one. Herodotus was a bit hard to get but i found a used one for 30$ in excellent condition (was listed as "good"). The price for alexander just won't drop.. I've seen it as low as $90 but now it's near $500 again for a used one.. :/

>> No.10814490

>>10814451

Il ne remplace pas les originaux.
La collection comprend certaines des meilleures parties, mais elle est loin d'être complète.
Le livre pourrait être utile pour identifier les figures que vous aimeriez explorer plus complètement.
De cette façon, c'est un livre complémentaire.

>> No.10814503

>>10814480

Ouch.
Yeah, my price graph is for the paperback.
The hardcover is absurdly priced on the used market!

>> No.10814507

>>10814411
That's actually a pretty ok price to be honest. And do you maybe know of a place for the translation of Meditations I mentioned?

>> No.10814529
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10814529

>>10814507

It looks like this is the ISBN for that specific edition:

9780679642602

You should be able to find it on your website of choice by entering this number into the search bar.

There's also a flimsy paperback version of the Hays translation. I find it has a nice cover image.

>> No.10814707
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10814707

>> No.10814724

>>10814326
Anyone has the julius caesar one?

>> No.10814808

>>10814529
The one you posted is nice and all but, in my humble opinion, the one with the statues is god tier and I'm dying to get it. Thanks!

>> No.10814829

I'm on book XV of the Odyssey I'm surprised he go to the Island so early I haven't read this since I was 12

>> No.10814866

>>10814829
This. I honestly would've liked to more sea zanyness, but it's still pretty good afterwards
But Ody sure seems a bit psycho for instantly wanting to kill all pretenders, even bedore knowing they violated hospitality laws

>> No.10814944

>>10814866
Checked and he probably just wanted to make sure his wife was his. I mean the Trojan War was about a man stealing a wife imagine if he comes back and his wife has been taken and he arrived just too late.

>> No.10814963

>>10814944
Not to mention the war was 10 years and his journey home was 10 years. A lot can change in 20 years.

>> No.10814973

I'm two hundred pages into Don Quixote, the Grossman translation, where they have listened to the recluse Cardenio's tale. Overall the whole thing is much more humorous than I expected, with lots of droll moments. I plan to leave a gap between reading the first and second volume because it is very episodic stuff.

>> No.10814986

>>10814963
Yea imagine if his wife got killed or kidnapped instead and he arrives home.

Also what should I read after Odyssey? Plato or the Aeneid?

>> No.10814999

>>10814986
Depends if you want to read philosophy or another epic poem.
Personally, of the two I'd read vergil.
But I'd suggest reading the Greek tragedies next. Or Greek history if you haven't yet.

>> No.10815032

>>10814999
Damn very nice get and I'm trying to stick with what I already bought and go to the Romans fast so I can start buying Loeb and using my wheelocks latin but I have also heard that Plato flipped Homer on his head and that seems very important.

>> No.10815070

>>10815032
Have you gone through wheelock yet? If not you have plenty of time to read the Greek plays while learning Latin.
Plato is against poetry in general and thinks that the way homer portrayed the Gods is wrong and shouldn't be taught (i.e. lying, quarreling, etc.)

>> No.10815157

>>10815070
>plenty of time to read the Greek plays while learning Latin
suppose this is what I'll be doing then thanks and also for the explanation of that aspect of Plato

>> No.10815345

>>10813356
>Redwall meets The Illiad.
I want it.

>> No.10815391

lol u niggas should just read a philosophy textbook then start with Kant.

>> No.10815481

>>10813323
>Bibliothèque idéale des philosophes antiques: De Pythagore à Boèce
English translation when

>> No.10815492

>>10812217
>OP's pic
C R I N G E

>> No.10815506

>mfw I'm a classics major looking at this thread
>reddit and tumblr all over the place
I'm out

>> No.10815614

>>10815506
And then there's the Evola fag (me)

>> No.10815936

>>10814241
You don't, if anything I think Thucydides would be better to read first, for some context on the time period.

>> No.10815938

>>10814305
Excellent, read this, Herodotus and Xenophon Landmarks and they are all very well done.

>> No.10815962

>>10812601
It's good to keep in mind that a lot of the time he's responding directly to platonism even if he doesn't make it obvious.

>> No.10816385

Came here to recommend all of you guys wanting Landmark editions to check Abebooks. They've got most of them for mad cheap. The Thucydides is like $8 right now if you live in the US.

>> No.10816407

Euripides' Helen is fucking bullshit, way to eliminate all the moral nuances in the original story by turning Helen into a perfect waifu and everything was actually the gods xD, also the deus ex machina he uses at the end absolutely destroyed the climax. Easily one of the worst tragedies out of everything we have of the great 3

>> No.10816903

>>10816407
Helen and Paris are ancient Romeo and Juliet with worse consequences. Take their lovey-dovey naivete and you ruin one of the major themes of the story.

>> No.10817512

>>10812217
This pic is a fucking smear on the name of Mihai Eminescu

>> No.10817535

>>10813340
Exactly. Why can’t they want daddy dick like normal girls?

>> No.10817538

>>10814529
>>10814808

I'm not a big fan of this translation. It tries to modernize the language, which I appreciate, but I think it comes out clunky because of it. This is an issue with almost all modern translation of old texts though.

>> No.10817542

>nearly finished wheelock
>Get to start on Caesar soon

I'm well excited lads

>> No.10817549

readin Iliad, how do I know if I've got a good translation?

>> No.10817648

>>10817549
Give us the first line or two.

>> No.10817653

>>10816407
Euripides was the SJW of ancient Greece.

>> No.10817715

>>10817538
>It tries to modernize the language, which I appreciate, but I think it comes out clunky because of it.

Some believe English translations of the classics ought to be full of high-minded archaisms and should avoid casual speech at all costs.

Consider that ancient writers usually wrote in a style that was immediate to them. We may think that the Meditations should sound remote and alien, but did Marcus really write that way?

Call me crazy, buy I think the Victorian English of a Long is a lot "clunkier" than the contemporary translations which care less about style and more about contemporary language and literal accuracy.

>> No.10817737
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10817737

>>10817715
Reddit spacing

>> No.10817747
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10817747

On a related note, I truly detest people who claim to know what Homer should sound like without actually being able to read Homer in the Greek.

>> No.10817795

>>10817715

I did not say that modern translations are inherently clunkier, I said I liked them when done well, I do not believe this attempt to modernize was done well. The job of the translator is to make the book read well in the language it is being translated into. I do not believe this specific translation of Marcus does so, and is inferior to some previous victorian translations, not because it is modern, but because it is a clunky translation.

>> No.10817883

>>10812217
is eminescu any good when compared to his contemporaries?

>> No.10817895

>>10817795

I think the clunkiness you detect is the author's attempt to give expression to the abrupt and casual self-exhortation style of a personal journal. It may not have fully succeeded.

>> No.10817918

>>10817795
Which translation would you recommend tho?

>> No.10817922

>>10817535
They fear it and as such they will always be even more controlled by it

>> No.10818086

>>10816407
>way to eliminate all the moral nuances in the original story by turning Helen into a perfect waifu and everything was actually the gods xD

there's really no point in "starting with the greeks" when you're already so brain-damaged by internet idiocy that you're just going to treat it like another nerd fandom and be all #notmyhelen like the manchildren that argue about superhero canon on twitter.

plus you're completely confused about everything. there is no "original story". everything was always "actually the gods". helen was always perfect, and perfectly self-contradictory. you claim to be familiar with all extant attic tragedy and yet you seem to have forgotten that this is helen also:

>A man raised as his own
>a lion cub, not weaned
>yet, robbed of the breast,
>gentle in the beginning,
>the children’s pet, and to
>the old a quiet pleasure.
>And often in his arms
>he rocked it like a baby,
>its bright eyes ever turned
>to the hand it nuzzled
>to ease the belly’s hunger.

>But as time passed it showed
>the color of its bloodlines,
>and in return for all
>the kindness it received
>from those who fostered it,
>it made a bleak, forbidden
>feast, cruel slaughter of all
>the cattle, the house foul
>with blood, since no one could
>beat back the agony,
>and all about them, near
>and far, a chaos of strewn
>corpses. A priest of death
>and ruin, ordained by god,
>was nurtured in the house.

>> No.10818113

>>10817715
I can't wait for the Illiad in a New York dialect or African American slang.

>> No.10818191

>>10818113
achilles talking in victorian english is not any less absurd than one speaking ebonics, you're just more used to one than the other. if anything a black drug dealer fighting over street corners has more in common with the ancient greek notions of aristocracy than some victorian gentleman. experts agree:
https://youtu.be/SdOlGUlqy2c?t=982

>> No.10818212

Can anyone here tell me if these two posts are accurate or making stuff up >>10816530
>>10816581

>> No.10818216
File: 17 KB, 160x238, WhatsApp Image 2018-03-08 at 15.21.45.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10818216

Ok, anons, here is a short story about a recent series of discoveries I made yesterday afternoon.

HOW I DECIDED I AM GOING TO BECOME A NEOPLATONIC SCHOLAR

I was re-reading the Enneads of Plotinus, checking the TLG to see whether the translation of this or that bit was accurate, and listing relevant quotations for a short essay I am writing. In order to be as well-informed as possible on the single treatises of the Enneads, I have started to buy, very slowly, the volumes of the Parmenides Publishing edition of Plotinus. Most of their commentaries are informative at best, and the notes are not very helpful, so yesterday afternoon I was finally forced to ask myself why did I keep buying their books. Meanwhile, I had stopped looking at the TLG and started browsing, almost unconsciously, through the website of Parmenides Publishing - and I found myself staring with wonder at the cover of Enneads VI.8

1/4

>> No.10818223
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10818223

>>10818216

The white font, the vivid color, the general psychedelic flavor of the image: nothing suggested the still composure of marble statues that is usually associated with ancient Greek thought. The cover had nothing of the stern, conservative-looking covers of academic books. And yet, it was edited by worthy academics, some of them well known in the field. Yes, the commentary may have not been the best: but it was still one of the very few commentaries to single treatises of the Enneads one could find in English, and it was supposed to be a serious work, updated and in line with the issues discussed in the most recent secondary literature. It was not for any of these features, though, that I kept wanting to buy the Parmenides Publishing editions of the Enneads. It was purely because of the cover. I realized I couldn’t care less about editors and commentaries. I just wanted to handle and touch and turn pages on a book with that cover, be it in the lonely comfort of my student room or in under the public eye of others in the library. I could have wandered deserts, sit in trains, wait in lines handling that book, and I know seeing that cover would have made me an happy man.

2/4

>> No.10818230
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10818230

>>10818216

But enough with these thoughts: I was supposed to study and focus on my essay and on the fundamental problems of Plotinus’ doctrine of mind. Thinking about it, I actually needed an information from the Parmenides Publishing website, because I needed to fill in details of the edition of Plotinus I had used in the bibliography of my short essay. Plotinus, O’Daly G. (ed.), Enneads I.1, Las Vegas: Parmenides Publishing, 2013. Wait, what? Las Vegas. LAS VEGAS.
Everything is crystal clear now. I google the address of the publishing house and pic related building comes out. That explains everything: the new-age covers, the sloppy commentary, the weird names of some of the editors (e.g.: Stephen Strange editor of Ennead VI.4-5). It is all because they are based in Las Vegas.

3/4

>> No.10818238
File: 110 KB, 940x646, WhatsApp Image 2018-03-08 at 15.24.42.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10818238

>>10818216

I had the most vivid vision of a meeting of neoplatonists in Las Vegas, and I saw renowned scholars from all over the world packing hawaian shirts in their bags to go to a “rework a translation” at Parmenides Publishing, old, wrinkly, bearded men choosing the brightest shade of color for their sunglasses, buying duty-free whisky in whatever little airport of a forgotten northern European city they are coming from to be intoxicated enough to discuss Plotinus, I saw them sharing comments about hostesses first thing as they meet under the shadow of palm trees in Las Vegas, some of them telling made up stories about airplane sex, and then delve right into an alcohol fueled first meeting where they actually talk about everything except neoplatonism and leave before they have time to even decide what to do with all those translation problems, and proceed to take every drug accessible with the salary of a neoplatonic scholar and at that point none of them has any idea what is happening anymore while they begin the longest most intense session of drinking gambling wild sex with prostitutes both underage and overage and with each other legal and illegal marriages car accidents police chases and more gambling and more drugs and more wild sex to the point that one or two of them even claim to have had genuine mystical experiences while contemplating the serpentine movements of a stripper dancing in front of them as if the entire balance of the universe depended on it dancing with the passion and love and fullness of life their once chubby now fat glass wearing excuses of wives never did nor were capable of imagining of ever doing and being filled in that moment with such intense gratefulness for having had the occasion to truly live instead of dying among the dust of previous scholars becoming dust themselves.
At the end of the sixth day of what was supposed to be a week of discussions, they finally meet to talk about philosophy. Those still under the effect of drugs make proposals for covers. Those with hangover work on the sloppy intros. The others write incoherent notes and traslate by looking at old translations. But the work somehow comes out fine - readable, and weirdly high level even though not the best possible. Why? Because during the fumes of alcohol and the hallucinations from the drugs some of them have merged with the one.
Now I know what I want to do in life. I check the hour, and send the essay. It is complete shit.

4/4

>> No.10818284

>>10818212
what do you expect people to tell you? it should be easy enough for you too look up these ancient greek words to see if he's factually correct and whether you agree with his reading of the poetry is surely something you have to work out for yourself.

>> No.10818348

>>10818340
I own the Belles Lettres ones. They're pretty cool. Everything published by Flammarion looks like god damn trash if you ask me. They're the Wordsworth Classics of the French world.

>> No.10818350
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10818350

>>10818238

Good story.

>> No.10818355
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10818355

>>10818348

I deleted my post because the weird looking Flammarion book was just a translation.

The French books of substantial commentary look something like this I think. These would be more comparable to the Parmenides books I think.

>> No.10818366
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10818366

>>10818350

>> No.10818372
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10818372

>>10818355
Here's my edition. I really like the cover. You can download it, it's all yours.

>> No.10818375

>Be me
>Love the Neoplatonist Damascius
>Not a single monograph about him written in the English language

>> No.10818381

>>10818375
Is he even translated? I think Olympiodorus isn't.

>> No.10818387
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10818387

I ordered "Plato's Parmenides" a while back from an online Canadian book merchant.
It's a Parmenides Press book.

After ordering, I noticed "3-4 month shipping time". wtf.

>> No.10818416
File: 108 KB, 885x301, dam.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10818416

>>10818381

Most of it is in French.
There's an English translation of Problems and Solutions Concerning First Principles arguably his most important work, but it isn't super good.

>> No.10818487
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10818487

If the Greek classics were so good, how come the Chinese Emperors didn't read them?

>> No.10818491

>>10814238
Because Herodotus is dank

>> No.10818979

>>10813323
Copleston comes pretty close

>> No.10819021

>>10818979

I like Copleston, but he only devotes ten pages to the philosophers that came after Plotinus in his Greece and Rome volume. That's at least 250 years of stuff in very few pages.

>> No.10819027

Oh, I should add too that la Bibliothèque idéale is made up mostly of excerpts and is a sort of compilation whereas Copleston explains it all in his own words.

>> No.10819069

>>10818191j
Yeah I wasn't completely joking. I would seriously enjoy reading the Illiad in Holden Caulfields dialect/sociolect.

>> No.10819079

>>10818348
Wtf why don't you like Flammarion?

>> No.10819338

can someone help me out with greek mythology? there was a story about warriors made from earth fighting each other the mc of this specific story defeated them and build a city at this spot. i cant find it on google. does someone know the name of the hero or city or this chapter/stiry is called?

>> No.10819361
File: 58 KB, 505x282, M28.1Drakon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10819361

>>10819338

Reminds me of this:

>When the hero Kadmos (Cadmus) arrived seeking to found the city, he slew the monster with a heavy stone. The goddess Athena then instructed him to sow the dragon's teeth, producing a crop of fully-grown, armed warriors called Spartoi (Sparti), five of which became the ancestral lords of Thebes.

>> No.10819368

>>10819338
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_teeth_(mythology)
This i guess

>> No.10819380

>>10819361
>>10819368
this is it!!! thank you so much! incredible that you found it so fast!

>> No.10819381

I'm interested in getting a basic understanding of the classics and ancient philosophy. I want to know the most famous stories, the more famous writers and their basic ideas.The Iliad and Odyssey are obvious reads, but what else? I'm thinking The First Philosophers and The Histories?

>> No.10819384

>>10819381
>I'm thinking The First Philosophers and The Histories?

That would be a good first start.

>> No.10819720
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10819720

>>10812217
>invent lesbianism
So, they finally admit it?

>> No.10820409
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10820409

>> No.10820441
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10820441

who here /fire/

>> No.10820453
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10820453

>>10820441

>> No.10821010

>>10820441
What do you mean?

>> No.10821616

how hard is it to learn ancient greek

>> No.10821682
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10821682

>>10821616
I don't know. Go get the entire Greek section of Loeb Classics library and find out.

>> No.10821691

>>10821682
thanks

>> No.10821729

>>10821691
Was joking, you'll need to learn grammar before anything. Don't know where to do that but you can google it. Reddit is surprisingly resourceful for that, I'm sure someone on r/classics has answered the question.

But if you're wanting to read Homer, he spoke Attic Greek, which was a little different. I remember watching this when I wanted to learn. Think you have to pay for the rest of it, but you may as well watch it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIgyFqS0UMw

>> No.10821825

>>10819381
attic drama

>> No.10822084

>>10814148
What edition are these? Looking for a nice hardback collection

>> No.10822123

>>10821010
Not him but peep the stickied Dore.

>> No.10822236

>>10816407
EURIPPED

>> No.10822394

>>10812217
Finished reading the first 400 verses of Book 6 of the Aeneid just recently; going in for Virgil's Bucolica now. Both in the original, because I'm a Classics minor at university.

>> No.10823647
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10823647

>>10821729
>But if you're wanting to read Homer, he spoke Attic Greek, which was a little different.

>> No.10824987

>>10823647
>Attic Greek is the Greek dialect of ancient Attica, including of the city of Athens. Of the ancient dialects, it is the most similar to later Greek and is the standard form of the language that is studied in ancient Greek language courses. Attic Greek is sometimes included in the Ionic dialect.
You can probably find courses which don't teach Attic Greek, cunt.

>> No.10825772
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10825772

How much did you love it, /clas/?

>> No.10825888

>>10824987
Homer didn't speak Attic Greek, ιδιοτ.