[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 47 KB, 421x600, AD03275_0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10788977 No.10788977 [Reply] [Original]

what about him? Is Borges on the same level as the greats?

>> No.10789044

>>10788977
I read some of Ficciones in original spanish a while ago. His style was good, but I think he gets off too much on all his literary allusions.

>> No.10789054

>>10788977
overrated on /lit/ underrated by normalfags who read, a lot like Junger and Joyce

>> No.10789063

the great one

ignore hipsterfaggs

>> No.10789069

>>10788977
He's in the top 10 20th century authors for sure.

>> No.10789071

>>10789063
ahh, i see you're a man of culture as well.

>> No.10789083
File: 93 KB, 645x729, 1516997539553.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10789083

>>10789044
Also I read Library of Babel before that. That's the only story I remember having some kind of meaning. The rest were just fantasy with some clever concepts.

>Maybe I'm just a brainlet and I missed the meaning in everything else

>> No.10789201

>>10789083
lol library is the most basic one, fuck off pleb

>> No.10789220

>>10789201
What is the most advanced one?

>> No.10789235

>>10788977
He's the best Spanish-language writer since Cervantes. García Márquez is a bad joke.

> same level as the greats

who are those in your opinion?

>> No.10789239

>>10789220
The garden of the forking paths, maybe?

>> No.10789254

>>10789239
No, babel is. But in literary terms, garden and herber quain, not by themselves, but in the relation they have

>> No.10789270

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0coyhlG4HK4

>> No.10789274

>>10789235
Also Borges underestimated himself while Garcia thought he was hot shit.

>> No.10789382

I dont understand why people regard this guy so highly when all he wrote was genre fiction in spanish.

>> No.10789419

>>10789235
>He's the best Spanish-language writer since Cervantes.
>Who is Baltasar Gracián
>Who is Perez Galdós
>Who is Leopoldo Alas Clarín
>Who is Ruben Dario
>Who is Rulfo
Borges is meme tier compared to those and I haven't even started

>> No.10789422

>>10789382
>implying he's on the same level as genre fiction writers like stephen king

kys

>> No.10789431

>>10789419
>Ruben Dario is better than Georgie

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Go home, kid.

>> No.10789490

>>10789431
t.Arshentino

>> No.10789509

Best author since Menard.

>> No.10789542

>>10789419
>Rulfo
>One hit wonder is a great
Hahahahahahaha

>> No.10789561

>>10789490
I'm not an argentine.

>> No.10789581

>>10789419
Borges shits on all of those.

>> No.10789598

>>10789581
>Borges shits on Gracián or Galdós
Dude it's pretty clear that you haven't read them

>> No.10789606

Man, it's sad that borges doesn't get much recognition outside pseudos on Malaysian makeshift condom knotting enthusiast boorus. His contemporaries constantly shat on him for not being political enough and where are they now? Marquez is a one hit wonder and Cortazar is only read by try hards who need another name to list off.

>> No.10789619

>>10788977
He's my favorite writer. He's just so clever and imaginative. He's a bit like the Godard of literature.
>>10789270
I loved Idea Channel. I wish it would come back.

>> No.10789629

>>10789083
did you miss the first half of ficciones or something?

>> No.10789633
File: 3.45 MB, 4608x2592, 20180303_231853.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10789633

>His is a literature of evasion

Ouch

>> No.10789634

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-GGALlLkIw

>> No.10789635

>>10789606
Dispite my dislike of García Márquez, he's not a one hit wonder. He has some pretty good books besides One hundred years. A one hit wonder is someone like Juan Rulfo. Cortazar wrote pretty good short stories.

>> No.10789636
File: 3.85 MB, 4608x2592, 20180303_231909.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10789636

>>10789633

>> No.10789639

>>10788977
He is incredible. One of the authors that make me feel like a mouthbreather in comparison.

>> No.10789646

>>10789598
Pérez Galdós*.

Hispanics are called by their father's surname alone (Pérez in this case) or by both their father's and their mother's surname (Pérez Galdós), but NEVER by their mother's surname alone (Galdós). So, it's not Márquez, it's García or García Márquez. Finally you learn something on /lit/, anon.

>> No.10789647

>>10789636
>When your prose is so good your haters force themselves to read you

>> No.10789652

>>10789646
Go to eat some beans, beaner.

>> No.10789658

>>10789636
>Implying the label "Latin American" means anything.

>> No.10789665

>>10789652
>redneck strikes back

I've already had a meal, you fucking faggot kek

>> No.10789669

>>10789658
As a Mexican I never saw my culture reflected in One Hundred Years despite being called *the* Latin American novel. It's a Colombian novel, period.

>> No.10789672

poor man's Calvino

>> No.10789673

>>10789652
that's frijoles to you, chum

>> No.10789685

>>10789672
Other way around.

>> No.10789687

>>10789606
Lol, Borges is absolutely read by everyone (who reads) here in Latin America. Akin to reading the catcher in the rye in the USA-

>> No.10789688

>>10789646
t. brainlet pedant

>> No.10789692

>>10789672
>>10789685
They're both memified. Whom do non-pseudo intellectuals read? Cortázar? Saramago? ...Neruda?

>> No.10789695

>>10789687
I would say he's read by everyone who reads in Hispanic America. Brazilians don't read and aren't important to LatAm.

>> No.10789698

>>10789688
not him but it's true, though.

>> No.10789707

>>10789619
Have you seen Alphaville? There are some cool references to Borges. Godard knew his stuff.

>> No.10789709

>>10789692
>implying real-life like 4chan where Borges is also "memified".

C'mon, anon, you're better than this (I hope).

>> No.10789711

>>10789672
poor man's bait

>> No.10789716

>>10789692
Neruda is just a fucking poet. Borges wrote prose and essays besides poetry.

>> No.10789721

>>10789669
I am Colombian, from Medellín, and my culture was not reflected by it either. It is about Caribbean culture more specifically. But that does not mean it is a great novel. "Latin American" culture is not expressible as a whole in a novel. It is too complex and has many shades. This novel explores one of those shades and does it wonderfully.

>> No.10789770

>>10789721
I'm from Medellín too. What novel do you think represents culture from Antioquia?

Despite all the edgy shit, I believe Fernando Vallejo is appealing to our culture (especially when he talks about his childhood on a rural settling and the typical Christmas celebrations). Tomás Carrasquilla also comes to my mind.

>> No.10789778

>>10789542
It's rather sad that you think you insulted Rulfo when you don't even understand what a one-hit wonder is.

>> No.10789779

>>10789692
In Argentina, pseud hipsters and casuals occasionally get small hopscotch diagrams tattoos.

>> No.10789788

>>10789419
>Benito Pérez Galdós
>Leopoldo Alas Clarín

Are they really that good? What should I read by them? The thing is, I'm not a big fan of the novela decimonónica full of detail and stuff. I don't even like Dickens.

>> No.10789795

>>10789788
1700-1900 forget all those years of spaniard shite.

>> No.10789801

>that fag who calls Rulfo a one hit wonder

Imagine being that much of a brainlet.

>> No.10789828

>>10789801
Sorry, but if I wanted to read about squat ugly brown people I'd rather browse /pol/ or hispachan.

>> No.10789841

>>10789828

kek the racism and ignorance is off the charts, jusy kys, you'll do the world a favor.

>> No.10789851

>>10789828
>pedro puhramo is just about brown people

Say that with a straight face and then call yourself a man. You can't.

>> No.10789860

>>10789669
>>10789721

Maybe you guys just live in a different environments or a rich background. But me, being born in Brazil, with family with large land areas and knowing my old background, One hundred years totally show how this Latin America was.

If you guys are sons and grandsons of city people, from a background of public servants and stuff like that is normal that you guys dont fell the simillarity.

>> No.10789873

>>10789770
Huh, haven't tought about that. Probably Fernando Vallejo is the best in representing 'paisa-ness'. Recently I read Carrasquilla's Grandeza which was about Medellín's people in the 20s-30s. But there should be something else. Maybe we should write it my friend.

>> No.10789884

>>10789860
Well, that's true. I am a city folk through and through, and 100 years of solitude is more about small town life.

>> No.10789893

>>10789884
caribbean rural plantation town*

>> No.10789908

>>10789788
La Regenta is really good and for sure a top 10 novel in Spanish literature and Pérez Galdós is considered by most RAE academics as the second best novelist in spanish literature. But if you don't like realism you probably won't like them that much. Galdós is more versatil in that regard.

>> No.10789920

>>10789908
I'll check out La Regenta, but what about Pérez Galdós?

>> No.10789922

>>10789652
You should try some beans with your raton laveur a latuer la route

>> No.10789923

>>10789860
Not rich, but definitely from an urban area. One hundred years gives me a very tropical vibe, full of banana plantations, tropical carrots and heat and such. Which is nothing like the part of Mexico where I live in. Also, I can't really identify with the incest and mysticism. Good book, nonetheless.

>> No.10789938

>>10789083
El aleph is where it's at

>> No.10789964

>>10789083
I love the Lottery in Babylon.

>> No.10789981

>>10789920
Galdos work is wide. He was a periodist,a novelist and a historian. His books about the history of Spain are brilliant for example,but he also has great short stories or novels like Fortunata y Jacinta. La Regenta is really dense and might not be for your taste. I wouldn't recommend la Regenta if you don't like realism desu.

>> No.10789994

I think he's a hack. All show.

>> No.10790041

>>10789994
Good critique, Mr Bloom.

>> No.10790538

>>10788977

It's pretty accepted universally that Borges is already one of "the greats"

>> No.10790555

>>10788977
> Is Borges on the same level as the greats?
He's included in Bloom's Western Canon book so yes.

>> No.10790561

>>10790041
Bloom likes Borges though.. :/

>> No.10790786

>>10789633

>my taste in art needs to be justified
>art that doesn't validate my personal experience has no merit

this is exactly the kind of attitude that generates garbage, overly sentimental art, and explains why One Hundred Years reads like an oral history recited by a blubbering old grandmas conditioned by collectivist kinship-fetishizing romance language cultures to express themselves like utter fucking faggots.

in all fairness Borges is also a diversity hire, but he's infinitely better.

>> No.10790936

>>10789636
>>10789633
>Write what you know, they said
>write about what a semi-hermit bookworm virgin knows
>WTF, Why so disengaged, hermano?!?!
>Shouldn't you be writing about (transitory meaningless bullshit of the world)?!?!
>U needa get laid mi hermano jajaja

>> No.10790955

>>10790786

The fact that GGM was a pain in the ass with some arrogant statments like that dosen't make him a bad writer.

100 Years is one of the greatest books of all time, and altough I love Borges he never produced anything that original.

Anyway, in the end I'm almost certain you dont like the guys work because he comes from Latin America (amd because he is popular not only with critics, but also the general public)

>> No.10790996

>>10789542
>¿Que es 'El llano en llamas'?

>> No.10791000

>>10789646
Umm... mysogynist much?

>> No.10791011

>>10790561
Anyone with half a brain likes Borges.

>> No.10791014

>>10790786
>Borges is a diversity hire

For fuck's sake.

>> No.10791024

>>10789581
Borges praised Rulfo, you cuck.

>> No.10791032

>>10790786
So no matter what you do, or how good you are, if you're not a White American you are a "diversity hire"? Borges was considered a fucking master before being translated to English. Your fucking ethnocentrist sorry American view does not apply to non-American writerswho never lived in the USA. Please think critically next time you open your mouth.

>> No.10791035 [DELETED] 

>>10791000
It's just the language works. Also don't forget where the word "macho" and "machismo" come from hehe

>> No.10791048

>>10788977
He reminds me of M.C. Escher.

>> No.10791053

>>10791024
Never said he didn't. He's just better than all of them.

>> No.10791121

>>10791000
It's just how the language works. Also don't forget where the word "macho" and "machismo" come from hehe

>> No.10791140

>>10790955
>Borges never produced anything that original

So you haven't read him.

>> No.10791243

>>10789606
Pynchon name drops a couple allusions to Cortazar in GR - so maybe yr onto something with the whole 'tryhard' thing

>> No.10791262

>>10791032

>only an ethnocentric would consider someone a diversity hire

nice logic, pablo.

>> No.10791373

I love the hate for García Márquez itt, but the fag saying rulfo is a one hit wonder is trying too hard.

Could you shit on the rest of the 'big four'? You've talked about Cortázar and García Márquez; now Vargas Llosa and Carlos Fuentes.

>> No.10791388

>>10791243
He also meantions the Marin Fierro. Is that also trying hard, you faggot?

>> No.10791393

>>10789695
Wrong, the thing with Brazil is that they are way more connected to the Lusosphere than they will ever be connected with Latin American literature, let alone the ammount of writers they have in their own country.

>> No.10791397

>>10791262
Many people would, but I'm talking about this one faggot in particular.

>> No.10791414

>>10791393
Yeah, when people say Latin America what they actually mean is Hispanic America. Brazil belongs to another tradition and they have a different language, obviously. Let alone French Guiana.

>> No.10792477

>>10789716
>Neruda is just a fucking poet.
Just a poet he says... on a literature board.

>> No.10793388

>>10792477
He is just a poet, though. He's not a short story writer or a novelist. A poet. I'm not diminishing poetry, just stating the truth.

>> No.10793567

>>10793388
If that is all you wished to say, then this means that you cannot express your own thoughts with the words they require.

>> No.10793569

>>10789419
Spanish-language literature is such a wasteland kek

>> No.10793589

>>10793569
Yeah, but still better than Portuguese lit, though.

>> No.10793592

>>10793567
Or it means that you cannot read well nor interpret people's intentions.

>> No.10793623

>>10793592
Wrong. Saying 'X is just a fucking Y' means, in the vast majority of cases, that there is something inferior or irrelevant, or simply negative, about being Y. And there is nothing in your post to suggest that we shouldn't interpret th words as we would in the vast majority of cases.

Leaving that aside, the reality, of course, is that poetry is much harder than novel-writing. A consequence of this is that even the best novelists where mediocrities as poets - Joyce's Chamber Music is a nice little book, but irrelevant; the poetry of Cervantes is indistinguishable from that of other hundreds of Renaissance mannerists, while that of Faulkner is quite bad.

>> No.10793632

>>10793589
I’m not Iberian but I’d probably take Pessoa and Camoes over any Spanish writer I know

>> No.10793639

>>10793632
I wouldn't take them over Cervantes and Calderón, but I suppose that's it.

Lobo Antunes is superior to any Spanish writer of the past century, with perhaps the exception of Lorca or Antonio Machado.

>> No.10793661

>>10793623
I said: "X is just a fucking poet. Y wrote short stories and essays besides poetry." But whatever, I prefer Parra over Neruda, if we're talking Chilean poetry.

>> No.10793674

>>10793632
Haven't read them tbqh, but I doubt they're better than Borges and Cervantes. You read them in Portuguese, right?

>> No.10793688

>>10793639
>A novelist from the second half of the 20th century is better than two poets from the first half of said century

Not even in the same category, pal. Apples and oranges.

>> No.10793699

>>10793569
that's a silly thing to say anon

>> No.10793732

>>10793661
Not him, but rec me an album by her.

>> No.10793745

>>10793732
Nicanor Parra is a man kek read his "Poems and Antipoems" book.

>> No.10793796 [DELETED] 

>>10793745
or "Antipoems: How to Look Better & Feel Great", def not self-help, not sure why's that the English title. But Parra died this year at age 103. (Probably the only poet who lived more than 100+ years?)

>> No.10793808

>>10793732
or "Antipoems: How to Look Better & Feel Great", def not self-help, not sure why's that the English title. But Parra died this year at age 103. (Probably the only poet who lived more than 100+ years?)

>> No.10793897

>>10793745
All this time I thought you was talking about Violeta Parra, lol.

>> No.10793912

>>10793897
that's Nicanor's sister kek

>> No.10793918

>>10793661
Why do you prefer him over Neruda? Why is he in any way better?

>> No.10793924

No, he is the greatest among those who CAN'T be great.

>> No.10793927

>>10793912
Wait, wasn't this guy also a mathematician?

>> No.10793934

>>10793924
why can't he be great?

>> No.10793935

>>10793927
Yes, mathematician and physics teacher kek

>> No.10793945

>>10793918
I didn't say he was better, I said I personally prefer him over Neruda. Neruda becomes too corny and tiresome after a while, but he's a good poet.

>> No.10793948

>>10793924
He is one of the greatest among Spanish-language writers and among any kind of writers, really.

>> No.10793949

How easy is Ficciones to read on a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is Candide and 10 is Phenomenology of the Spirit?

>> No.10793951

>>10789254
no, tlön is
not complex, but deeper implications

>> No.10793976

>>10793949
3 or 4. I read it when I was like 18.

>> No.10793983

>>10793949
4 if you're not well read.
6 if you're well read.

>> No.10794005

>>10793983
it's harder to read if you're well read?

>> No.10794033

>>10793949
it's relatively easy in terms of the language employed, and all the stories can be enjoyed at the 'surface level'. however, to grasp all the literary and philosophical implications and allusions at play, some breadth of erudition is required

>> No.10794070

>>10794005
Yep. When you're not well read you take anything at face value or you have a very weak capacity for analysis which makes it so you don't understand the full range of the implications of his stories.

>> No.10794195

>>10794070
How does whether you take things at face value or understand the references affect reading speed?

>> No.10794218

>>10794195
As >>10794033 said without some erudition you only read the stories at "surface level", which makes you gloss over the particulars and the implications.
I'm just describing my experience btw.

>> No.10794226

>>10789419
Who are they indeed

>> No.10794239

>>10794218
So books should be read twice? I feel like I can read but I don't know how to read, now.

>> No.10794321

>>10791024
>literally unironically implying one can't respect a lesser writer than oneself
>its a cuck projecter
like pottery

>> No.10794457

>>10794239
>So books should be read twice?
Good books should be read more than twice, anon. Christ, the people on this board. And reading speed does not matter for being a good reader or not.

>> No.10794468

>>10794239
>So books should be read twice?
I think you should always revisit books that you liked or classics but there isn't a rule, you can do what you want.

>> No.10794470

>>10789419
Literally who lmao

The two of those I do know are leagues below borges Jesus fuck talk about bad taste

>> No.10794483

>>10789647
this

>> No.10794567

>>10789647
>Oh no, he doesn't suck the dick of popes and presidents like I do, therefore, Borges is an evil man.

Fucking GGM.