/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10768001]

The New Yorker's attempt to take down Peterson

[Anonymous No.10768004]

>>10768001
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/03/05/jordan-petersons-gospel-of-masculinity

Forgot link

[Anonymous No.10768009]

>>10768001
"intellectual"

[Anonymous No.10768012]

>>10768001
Despite the OP this article is actually surprisingly balanced and informative. None of the usual polemics

[Anonymous No.10768013]

>>10768001

I dont know anything about this meme-guy, just have been seen him a lot around here in the last weeks.

Can somebody please explain what is the Lobster-fetiche of his? What is the symbolism of the Lobsters?

[Anonymous No.10768014]

>>10768009
>sucyposting

you're alright.

[Anonymous No.10768016]

>>10768013
>been seen him

been seeing him
>>10768013
>what is the Lobster-fetiche

what is this

[Anonymous No.10768019]

>>10768013
Peterson sees Lobsters hyper-selective reproduction as the ideal Nietzschean ubercretur and wants humanity to be transformed to emulate it

[Anonymous No.10768021]

I see a few factual errors. not even a fan of jbp

[Anonymous No.10768024]

>>10768016
>fetiche
fetish

[Anonymous No.10768029]

>>10768019
Are you saying he wants women to behave like lobsters?

[Anonymous No.10768032]

>>10768029
What he is ultimately saying is that women should pay even less attention to the average 4chan user than they already do.

[Anonymous No.10768039]

>>10768029
Yes, women should mate with preferably as few men as possible, perhaps even with just one per city. Men in turn rather than finding frustration with this should be happy to have the challange of fighting for that single position.

Most Fascists seek humanity to be like Lions but Peterson sees them as weak degenerates and knows it is the crustacean that is the most glorious form of life.

[Anonymous No.10768041]

>>10768013
Lobsters are blue-blooded, immortal and hierarchical and so hint at Peterson's secret neoreactionary aristocratic traditionalist agenda.

[Anonymous No.10768042]

>>10768001
The best way to ignore a joke is to stop telling it. Just look at the Trump election, he only got through because the media turned everything he shat from his mouth into a headline.

[Anonymous No.10768043]

>>10768013
iirc he defends hierarchies by saying that they exist in nature, that even lobsters have a natural hierarchy or some shit. i could be totally wrong, though. he talks about it in that interview he did with that british woman who intentionally kept twisting his words to paint him as a misogynist

[Anonymous No.10768049]

>>10768043
>>10768013
https://youtu.be/aMcjxSThD54?t=1555
25:55

[Anonymous No.10768060]

>>10768013
Lobsters broke off from us in the evolutionary chain hundreds of millions of years ago, but they still have dominance hierarchies. Also they can take prozac. Therefore dominance hierarchies are natural (hence good or worthwhile). That's the reasoning I trace, at least.

[Anonymous No.10768073]

“Attempt to take down”?
This is one of the best articles about Peterson I’ve read. It’s an honest analysis without blind doggish praise or dishonest/incoherent critiques. They didn’t even go for the “can you believe this guy thinks humans are the same as lobsters??” route I thought it was going down at a certain point
I’m pleasantly surprised that the New Yorker published this. Great read

[Anonymous No.10768083]

>>10768021
I’ve been keeping a close eye on him since 2016 and didn’t notice a single factual error in the article

[Anonymous No.10768084]

>>10768060
But bonobos are much more closely related to us than lobsters are and their version of a dominance hierarchy is that everyone fucks everyone else all the time, it is the go to solution to any and all bonobo social problems.

[Anonymous No.10768088]

>>10768073
Ditto
I'm not a fan of Peterson, but I found that the article was pretty reserved and near neutral in tone. It almost criticizes him but doesn't ever quite say anything negative; it just shows his views.

[Anonymous No.10768091]

>>10768084
Most studies indicate that females have a higher social status in bonobo society.[4] Aggressive encounters between males and females are rare, and males are tolerant of infants and juveniles. A male derives his status from the status of his mother.[38] The mother–son bond often stays strong and continues throughout life. While social hierarchies do exist, and although the son of a high ranking female may outrank a lower female, rank plays a less prominent role than in other primate societies.[39]

Because of the promiscuous mating behavior of female bonobos, a male cannot be sure which offspring are his. As a result, the entirety of parental care in bonobos is assumed by the mothers.[40]

It seems like they do have hierarchies, just not as strong as normal chimpanzees or humans

[Anonymous No.10768096]

>>10768088
It’s not hard to see that the author has some gripes with him but you’re right, he simply lets him speak for himself. None of the quotes could easily be considered “out of context” except for maybe the “rabid harpies” line.

[Anonymous No.10768099]

>>10768083
Here's one.
>PewDiePie is a fan of JBP
Saying a couple nice things about a book doesn't mean you're a fan of the writer.

[Anonymous No.10768102]

>>10768041
>Lobsters are blue-blooded, immortal and hierarchical and so hint at Peterson's secret neoreactionary aristocratic traditionalist agenda.
>>10768043
>iirc he defends hierarchies by saying that they exist in nature,
>>10768060
>Lobsters broke off from us in the evolutionary chain hundreds of millions of years ago, but they still have dominance hierarchies. Also they can take prozac. Therefore dominance hierarchies are natural

Funny thing is: none of those guys who defend hierarchi see themselves - and their relatives and loved ones - as the lowest of the low. They are never the shudras and the untouchables.

Other funny thing:
If we cant change things that are “natural” to us, like abolishing hierarchies, then why don’t we just stop living against what was designed to occur by natural laws and just accept any illness as the will of the universe?

[Anonymous No.10768108]

>>10768102
>Funny thing is: none of those guys who defend hierarchi see themselves - and their relatives and loved ones - as the lowest of the low. They are never the shudras and the untouchables.
How likely are you to see the published thoughts of the lowest of the low, dumbass?
Besides, I'm fully for the defense of hierarchy and certainly don't see myself as an "alpha." The hierarchy shouldn't be seen as something you win, it should be seen as something you continually strive to climb.

[Anonymous No.10768115]

>If we cant change things that are “natural” to us, like abolishing hierarchies, then why don’t we just stop living against what was designed to occur by natural laws and just accept any illness as the will of the universe?

[Anonymous No.10768116]

>>10768102
I think that recognizing hierarchies as natural in animals is unrelated to moral statements or justifications.

It's more a matter of stating what actually tends to happen than what should happen.

[Anonymous No.10768123]

Why hasn't Memerson responded to Sniff Man's accepting his challenge? Is this charlatan too afraid to go against anybody credible?

[Anonymous No.10768128]

>>10768043
>he defends hierarchies
Then why dones he hate Hitler and Stalin?

[Anonymous No.10768129]

>>10768021
Like what? The article isn't singing his praises but it's not representing him unfairly, either. Seemed like they made a good-faith attempt to look at why he believes what he believes, and why he's resonating with some young men.

[Anonymous No.10768130]

>>10768116
Pattern recognition is a kind of cognitive bias
Why doesnt peterman know that?

[Anonymous No.10768133]

>>10768013
lobsters look like a dick and peterson is so deep in the closet phallic symbols unconsciously appear in his writing

[Anonymous No.10768138]

>>10768099
He chose to give a positive endorsement of Peterson's work on his channel. That counts as being a fan.

[Anonymous No.10768145]

>>10768108
>The hierarchy shouldn't be seen as something you win, it should be seen as something you continually strive to climb.

Yeah, yeah. Then the suns of wealthy executives start with much more chances than you do and you need to be bound to accept that you are “inferior” to those people. The sons and daughters of people in the publishing industry or the movie industry are “normally more gifted” than you are, you just didn’t work harder enough to publish your book/got your chance as an actor/got a chance to film your screenplay, etc.

I would accept something as hierarchy if everybody had the same chances from the start. If the children of both the mechanic and the wall-street investor would go to the same public schools. Then we would see who is who.

But right now we just have this pattern here:

http://www.vagabomb.com/This-Comic-Will-Forever-Change-the-Way-You-Look-at-Privilege/

There is no way of talking in a fair fight. For all we know we might have many people who are naturally more gifted both intellectually and physically living in slums.

[Anonymous No.10768149]

>>10768145
Being born naturally more gifted, intelligent, or attractive is also unfair, it is literally impossible to make things fair.

[Anonymous No.10768151]

>>10768116
the problem with "our" incessant need to destroy hierarchies is that it will mostly affect the leaders of our own societies; white men. nothing wrong with that but the mantle isn't going to be picked up by people further down the dominance hierarchy (white women? gay black people? disabled dwarves?) but rather outsiders like the chinese, the jews or the arabs.

[Anonymous No.10768152]

>>10768129
Here's another.
>his accent and vocabulary combine to make him seem like a man out of time and out of place, especially in America
Nobody has ever said this. If anything, it's familiar. The meme is that he sounds like Kermit, one of the most recognizable characters in America. His vocabulary isn't unusual either.

>>10768138
No it doesn't. You could be paid to endorse something on your channel, and that wouldn't make you a fan, would it? Or he could have made the video to get more viewers. Your definition doesn't logically follow.

[Anonymous No.10768153]

>>10768145
Some people are going to have a much harder time climbing it due to inherent differences in ability, as well as variance in starting positions and random chance. That doesn't mean we can't all strive to do what we can instead of comparing ourselves to the hyper-successful in despair

[Anonymous No.10768154]

>>10768039
fascist? really?

[Anonymous No.10768160]

>>10768152
>Nobody has ever said this.
The author just did you fucking moron
It's not a news article, it's a lite opinion piece
He made a subjective statement of his view
That isn't factually innacurate

[Anonymous No.10768165]

>>10768149
Right, so the question is how low of a standard of living should these people have? People who do not have the traits or abilities to be successful in current society?
And it is possible to give more people a fair shot at making something of themselves.

[Anonymous No.10768170]

>>10768149

well, yeah, you have a good point.

Problem is that we have a lot of playboys defending guys like Peterson who don’t have any clue about their actual value and capacities. They actually believe they somehow make it all based on their efforts, and deem poor people and unprivileged people as “inferior”, when, had they been born in the same conditions, they would fare as bad as them or even worse.

[Anonymous No.10768171]

>>10768149
It is impossible to do it perfectly so dont even consider it

[Anonymous No.10768174]

god i'm so glad i don't care about this shit anymore

[Anonymous No.10768175]

>>10768102
> just accept any illness as the will of the universe
We should do that you stupid faggot.

[Anonymous No.10768178]

>>10768133
>lobsters look like dick
you must have a weird dick

[Anonymous No.10768179]

>>10768165
the only way to assure a high standard of living and to maximize the potential of people "down there" is to assign the task of running society to moral and responsible people who are able to plan long-term

[Anonymous No.10768181]

>>10768151
Jews are just more dominant i guess

[Anonymous No.10768191]

>>10768179
Here let us solve the problems we create because we are obviously smart :*)

[Anonymous No.10768194]

>>10768160
His opinion is shit then, like my anus and yours. Literally whos shouldn't make these kinds of articles. A who at least has some stake in their opinion.

[Anonymous No.10768195]

>>10768181
Well yeah, they're filling the vacuum being opened up by the fall of white men. Our society has collectively torn down the dominant leaders of itself and now a foreign group who have yet to be torn down (and if anything have been propped up) are taking the place.

[Anonymous No.10768197]

The only person who would be opposed to a hierarchy is someone who ends at one of the lower points: the whining of losers that resent those at top.

[Anonymous No.10768199]

>>10768152
That's just the author's impression, it's not really something you can label as false statement. As for Pewdiepie, what would he have to do to be considered a fan? Any public statement is potentially paid for. Legally, you have to disclose advertisements so I'm going to assume he wasn't paid to review the book and chose it for his own reasons (maybe he personally is a fan, maybe he thought it would be popular with his fanbase). He thought highly enough of Jordan Peterson's brand that Pewdiepie chose to publicly endorse him and expand Peterson's audience. Saying that it's incorrect to call him a fan is a huge stretch.

[Anonymous No.10768203]

>>10768174
>he says while feeling compelled to inform everyone of how much he doesn't care

[Anonymous No.10768204]

>>10768001
>Peterson, formerly an obscure professor, is now one of the most influential—and polarizing—public intellectuals in the English-speaking world.
aren't all professors obscure unless they are a meme for some reason?

>The reprisals only raised Peterson’s profile, and he capitalized on the attention on his Patreon page, where devotees can pledge monthly payments in exchange for exclusive Q. & A. sessions and online courses.
paypigs got off too easy

>Kelefa Sanneh
has any non-white man ever written a hitpiece on Memerson? i feel like it's always either women or whitey trying to fit in with the women

>Then, rather audaciously, he sought to explain exactly how our minds work, illustrating his theory with elaborate geometric diagrams (“The Constituent Elements of Experience as Personality, Territory, and Process”) that seemed to have been created for the purpose of torturing undergraduates.
>Peterson has a way of making even the mildest pronouncement sound like the dying declaration of a political prisoner.
keked

>“He had this odd habit,” Doidge writes, “of speaking about the deepest questions to whoever was at this table—most of them new acquaintances—as though he were just making small talk.”
sounds annoying

>a grim story about a troubled friend who committed suicide, and then to a remembrance of a professor who boasted that he and his wife had made an ethical decision to have only one child, and from there to an argument that both the unhappy friend and the arrogant professor were “anti-human, to the core.”
how will antinatalists ever recover?

>Near the end of the chapter, he tries to coin a new catchphrase: “Toughen up, you weasel.”
pls no

[Anonymous No.10768206]

>>10768042
How do you ignore a guy who gets 63 million votes?

[Anonymous No.10768209]

>>10768197
Ok, and?

[Anonymous No.10768211]

>>10768179
I don't have a solution, but a top-down approach won't work. The world is too complex for that at this point.

[Anonymous No.10768215]

>>10768178
lobster is a known phallic symbol, especially in the field of art. It is also considered an aphrodisiac.

[Anonymous No.10768226]

>>10768195
Jewish dominance is really fucking old. In the middle ages when most white folk were doing agricultural work as serfs (basically slaves) the Jews had jobs in finance, merchantilism, accounting, and formed the middle class. While the average peasant was illiterate and couldn't even read his own bible, Jews educated all of their children for the sake of letting them read the Torah. The only reason the Jews did not go on to become aristocrates (the top of the heirachy) is because there were laws in place that made it impossible. As soon as those laws were removed the Jews, with their natural dominance, vaulted to the top.

The only reason the Jews were not at the top in the time of the Greeks, Romans, and Babylonians is because those societies had a fanatical devotion to hierarchies, much more than Jews. While the modern societies shake at the idea of eugenics the Romans literally had documents trying to contemplate which babies were worth keeping and which the mother should dispose of.

[Anonymous No.10768237]

>>10768226
>Jews were always dominant
>The only reason why the Jews weren't dominant in the past is because someone else was dominant
Do you see the contradiction here?

[Anonymous No.10768238]

>>10768099
THAT is your complaint with the article?

[Anonymous No.10768244]

>>10768226
Part of that was Jews practising usury though. I'm not contesting their general dominance but it is kind of easy to become rich in a society of people who aren't allowed to lend money.

[Anonymous No.10768249]

>>10768197
But winning and losing are based on having a rich white daddy just as often as they are based on actual merit. Distributing power to the top allows for consolidation that slowly chokes everyone else.

[Anonymous No.10768251]

>watch some Peterson vids to see what the fuzz is all about
>he seems like just an ordinary self-help psychologist

Can someone explain to me why some people on the right think he's the new Messiah while some on the left think he's Satan? Because i don't fucking get it.

[Anonymous No.10768252]

>>10768206
he was and still is a walking joke
if people stopped spreading his shit he would have never gotten the nomination

[Anonymous No.10768256]

>>10768238
No, he's also mad that the author said Peterson sounded timeless when she CLEARLY should have said he sounds like kermit >>10768152
Really damages the credibility of the article tbqh.

[Anonymous No.10768258]

>>10768001
>This article appears in the print edition of the March 5, 2018, issue, with the headline “Sort Yourself Out, Bucko.”
someone from the future has the pic?

[Anonymous No.10768263]

>>10768151
the thing is us discussing this right now is itself a part of the natural formation of hierarchies in society.

"redistribution of wealth'' championed by a small group of revolutionaries is also just the unfolding of dominance hierarchies. It's just different people climbing the power pyramid, society remains shaped like a pyramid regardless.

[Anonymous No.10768264]

>>10768244
>be a stupid white farmer. Literally need a loan to buy the essentials of farming. No money because harvest isn't for 6 months
>Take a loan so I don't starve to death

You're basically complaining the Jews didn't allow your ancestors to starve to death.

>but it is kind of easy to become rich in a society of people who aren't allowed to lend money.

More examples of white people being dumb and shooting themself in the foot. Catholic church passed the "law of Gracian" which gave Jews a literal monopoly on money lending. So naturally they charged outrageous interest rates since competing with them is illegal.

[Anonymous No.10768270]

>>10768251
Because saying "Having 52 genders is dumb" is now considered neo-nazi tier

[Anonymous No.10768272]

>>10768264
>reddit spacing

[Anonymous No.10768277]

>>10768264
There are legitimate arguments to be made against the practice of usury. Many different societies have outlawed because they saw it as having extremely negative effects.

[Anonymous No.10768278]

>>10768237
There's no contradiciton. You just suck at thinking.

The point is from the middle ages onward the Jews were the superior group in terms of culture. Probably a genetic level too.

[Anonymous No.10768279]

>>10768252
But people who like what he had to say are going to spread it.
How do you get people who dislike you to stop doing what you don’t want them to do?

[Anonymous No.10768292]

>>10768272
>t. insecure internet gatekeeper

[Anonymous No.10768293]

>>10768263
Wealth is not the same as dominance. Just look at the Soviet Union (below the level of heads of state/the highest tiers of government).

[Anonymous No.10768294]

>>10768251
pea brain basement kiddos think he is revolutionary because he "BTFO" sjws and gives them basic summaries of books they don't read.
annoying leftists think he's satan because he doesn't want to recognize preferred pronouns and his audience is all manchildren

[Anonymous No.10768295]

>>10768042
No there is a silent majority who are tired of marxist leftist postmodernist commies creating an ideological nepotistic circle in every institution they find themselves in and destroying society in the process.

[Anonymous No.10768296]

>>10768084
bonobos prefer "chad jerks" over "beta helpers" though
https://today.duke.edu/2018/01/bonobos-prefer-jerks

[Anonymous No.10768299]

>>10768293
I wasn't saying wealth and power are the same thing, I was just pointing out that you can't actually 'level' power structures, they are just naturally pyramidal.

[Anonymous No.10768303]

>>10768272
>when you can't make counter points or find typos just talk about formatting

White trash

>>10768277
Yeah. The Catholic church made those arguments and that's why they banned it for all Christians. The thing is farmers do not like starving to death and explorers/enterpenurs like having money to start their business. So they still need loans. And since they made it illegal to receive loans themself they are literally begging to be exploited.

It's not the Jews fault people took loans. Its' the people's own fault for taking them. This is nigger-tier thinking. Going into massive dept and complaining abut your debtor.

[Anonymous No.10768316]

>>10768060
>Therefore dominance hierarchies are natural (hence good or worthwhile).
i don't think he says that dominance hierarchies are good. Just that they are not caused by "capitalism" or are not essentially socially constructed, which means that if you want to destroy hierarchies you can't just remove capitalism, but you have to fundamentally change human nature or apply very strong socially engineering on humans, which depending on the social engineering that you apply may be worse than the hierarchies themselves because you have basically no idea what you are doing

[Anonymous No.10768326]

>>10768279
people voted for him because he acted like an apish child and screamed at everyone. If it was anyone else; if Cruz, or Jeb had won and were president now I would have no qualms saying the voters agreed with their platform. Most people who voted trump, which keep in mind wasn't the majority of the vote, mainly voted on how he said it rather than what was said. What the Trump persona represented rather than the actual platform of his campaign. Sure, some people agreed with him 100% but to say that 100% of his voters did so is a reductionism of a highly complex election.

[Anonymous No.10768327]

>>10768303
I am not some ressentiment-filled antisemite, I don't care if Jews are overrepresented in positions of wealth and power.

But you're not being fair about this, the Catholic church wasn't just being stupid, they thought that usury was social poison, and they weren't alone in thinking that. You can find similar sentiments in ancient Indian Buddhist and Vedic texts, and in Greece and Rome. I think even Judaism has a history of prohibiting usury at times

[Anonymous No.10768333]

>>10768299
So some power structures will endure even through the "redistribution of wealth." Doesn't sound like the unfolding of dominance hierarchies to me. Also, not all dominance hierarchies are created equal.

[Anonymous No.10768335]

>>10768256
>>10768194
Dude you are barely intelligible. Stop trying to speak in metaphors until you get a better grasp of language.

[Anonymous No.10768338]

>>10768316
Obviously studies of primitive tribes have confirmed hierarchies (usually correlated with strength, hunting ability). Surely there arent any people out there thinking that hierarchies are strictly a byproduct of capitalism right?

[Anonymous No.10768340]

>>10768102
>Funny thing is: none of those guys who defend hierarchi see themselves - and their relatives and loved ones - as the lowest of the low. They are never the shudras and the untouchables.
that's because the untouchables are not part of the hierarchy, they are outside of the hierarchy and it means your society is already fucked.

they are basically either migrants or war prisoners that you didn't kill for pity and let stay even though they aren't part of your society

[Anonymous No.10768344]

>>10768316
It is literally impossible for dominance hierarchies to be anything other than a social construct. Saying a social construct isn't the same as saying it's not real, or that it can be fully eradicated. Just that conceptualizations of it (i.e. who can be dominant, what it means to be dominant) are flexible.

[Anonymous No.10768345]

>>10768278
They were neither and are still neither, and neither has anything to do with dominance. Jews were not dominant in the Middle Ages, the European nobility was. Hell, even after the overthrow of the nobility Jews were still ultimately below the European industrial capitalist bourgeoisie. It wasn't until the 20s when rentier capitalism began to take off that Jews really began to climb the dominance hierarchy with post WW2 Holocaust guilt being the final nail in the coffin to pave the way for the takeover of academia.

[Anonymous No.10768347]

>>10768326
People voted for Trump as a vote against the dominant narrative not because of how or what he said.

[Anonymous No.10768350]

>>10768333
The power structures can be replaced with new power structures, in the case of revolutionaries redistributing wealth what is happening is that the old system(whether a nobility or some other ruling class) is discarded and the revolutionaries become the new ruling class.

My point is that the shape remains the same, and the responsibilities and privileges of the rulers may change superficially but they fundamentally have the same job- retaining their power, directing society as best they can, etc.

[Anonymous No.10768353]

>>10768001
oh no they're attacking my internet daddy!!

[Anonymous No.10768357]

>>10768123
the zero book podcast also challenged him to a marxist debate and he has weaseled out of responding to them

[Anonymous No.10768359]

>>10768145
The moral philosophy behind hierarchies, at least my understanding of it, is precisely the opposite of this dumb social climber attitude Americans have.

You were born a farmer? Good, take up farming and be happy knowing you’re living your life to the fullest fulfillment of its duty. Be the best farmer you can be, and don’t worry about other people.

You were born a king? Same concept.

Born a mid tier civil servant? Don’tet your greed and ambition drive you into trying to usurp the throne and becoming a tyrant, throwing the world into anarchy in the process. Serve your function to the fullest, content yourselves with what you have, build your families estate for your descendants, and have good relations with your neighbors.

It’s When everyone’s trying to push over each other to get ahead, and what’s worse, when they convince themselves that it’s not the happy accident of their birth but rather some inherent merit that’s afforded them their social position, that society is headed for destruction and decadence.

Of course this only works if everyone owns land.

[Anonymous No.10768366]

>>10768145
>I would accept something as hierarchy if everybody had the same chances from the start.
that would break the chain between parents and children and be more detrimental than hierarchies themselves

[Anonymous No.10768367]

>>10768347
And this is why the American double party system is retarded. People vote for brands, not for products.

[Anonymous No.10768368]

>>10768344
They are flexible in manifestation but not in underlying biological reasons that make hierarchies a necessity.

[Anonymous No.10768372]

>>10768347
This
Voting for Trump was a vote against Hillary, the press, Hollywood, academia.
A vote against all the things decent people hate.

[Anonymous No.10768373]

>>10768327
The Catholic church and the Jews got their anti-usuary sentiments from the same source. An old testament passage forbidding charging interest to members of their own kind.

So Christians cannot charge interests to Christians, and Jews cannot charge interest to Jews. But society NEEDS loans. Any argument about why it might be bad or not is completely pointless when fasted with financial needs.

The Christians made a stupid choice and suffered from it. That's it. Later they got anti-semetic rather than admitting they shot themself in the foot. By the time they realized that society must have loans @ interest to prosper the Jews had already dominated that part of society. And they deserved it.

[Anonymous No.10768376]

>>10768367
They voted against the product that resulted in the dominant narrative.

[Anonymous No.10768380]

>>10768368
I agree and I don't think too many people would actually disagree if you talked with them about it. Usually, when people are against hierarchies they're just against the current manifestation of dominance hierarchies.

[Anonymous No.10768382]

>>10768001

>The New Yorker's attempt to take down Peterson

In my mind's eye, there was a flash of a spastic trying to knife another spastic, flailing, then falling over himself.

Why do you waste your time with journalism and youtube intellectuals?

[Anonymous No.10768386]

>>10768039

So Peterson is essentially not only calling those who follow his advice cucks, but encouraging them to stay cucks?

Loving every laugh.

[Anonymous No.10768401]

>>10768380
I think most people are unhappy with where they are in the hierarchy then secondarily with the overall manifestation of the hierarchy as a whole. The reason the current manifestation cannot colapse is because most people would be perfectly happy to live in it as long as they got to the top. And thats the role of the American Dream, it is necessary to make everyone believe they could be in the top part of an otherwise wholly unsatisfactory scheme.

[Anonymous No.10768402]

>>10768263
>"redistribution of wealth'' championed by a small group of revolutionaries is also just the unfolding of dominance hierarchies.
yep, the "revolutionary vanguard" is just basically communists re-discovering the need for an aristocracy

[Anonymous No.10768408]

>>10768001
>gospel of masculinity
Sounds like a great headline. Is it meant to be an insult?

[Anonymous No.10768415]

>>10768401
And personally I think no revolutions in the communist vein can really produce any change. If I were cynical I would say that the goal of communist revolution isnt the change of social hierarchy but the replacement of the rulling class with another. The only way to transform society is by giving up on the system of power itself, incidentally a doctrine that teaches this is Christianity whose Kingdom is not "of this world".

[Anonymous No.10768418]

>>10768408
It's not really a take down, OP is being oversensitive.

[Anonymous No.10768421]

>>10768316
I think for JP, good, true, and worthwhile are all somewhat equivalent terms. He appeals to a strict reduction to utility of well-being. Personally the approach is far too deconstructionist for my taste.

[Anonymous No.10768428]

>>10768133
>being this Freudian
Clean your lobster tank, friend.

[Anonymous No.10768429]

>>10768415
But then we're back with the unrealizable ideal of no one having more power than anyone else. Not that I think communism is necessarily the answer either.

[Anonymous No.10768436]

>>10768060
Raping children is natural but that doesn't mean it's something we should not destroy

[Anonymous No.10768437]

>>10768338
>Surely there arent any people out there thinking that hierarchies are strictly a byproduct of capitalism right?
you'd be surprised the kind of retards that roam this earth

[Anonymous No.10768439]

>>10768429
I dont think the goal is to have no temporal power in itself, rather that the pursuit of power itself is not the organizing principle of society which causes strife.

[Anonymous No.10768442]

>>10768344
they are a social construct in the same sense that the circulatory system is a social construct, the circulatory system doesn't exist and it's just a bunch of cells (or a bunch of atoms) that we gave a name because it was convenient.

That doesn't mean that every single walking person doesn't have blood running through their veins.

[Anonymous No.10768444]

>>10768436
Never said I agreed with his logic; I thought I was even being intentionally glib to show some of the speciousness of the argument.

[Anonymous No.10768473]

>>10768278
No, that's conspiratorial bullshit. Jewish people became prominent in the 19th century when material changes to the Western European economy gave new-found significance and prestige to the financial industries that had been relegated to Jews for centuries.

[Anonymous No.10768475]

>>10768073
>great read
>the standards are so low that a few obvious paragraphs are now great

[Anonymous No.10768478]

>>10768295
Classic

[Anonymous No.10768481]

>>10768347
Mix of both. Trump was so many candidates at once it voters could project onto him whatever they wanted

[Anonymous No.10768487]

>>10768359
That sounds fucking retarded

[Anonymous No.10768488]

>>10768481
Trump perfectly demonstrated why democracy is retarded. I mean it was already very clear, but he was a comically good example

[Anonymous No.10768503]

>>10768013
Lobsters are trapped in a persistent Hobbesian battle against all others therefore we should transform human society by genetically engineering humans to have carapaces.

[Anonymous No.10768511]

Peterson is just a poster boy for conservatives who think of themselves as better than others when they are in fact not even near the top crust of humanity.

If hierarchy really was correctly observed almost all – if not all – presidents, congress people, senators, military leaders, and all the people who hold positions of power should be kicked out of their chairs. Only people with the highest IQs and creative capacities should sit in office.

The greatest people on Earth, those with the highest degrees of intelligence, human empathy, artistic and scientific aptitude are nowhere near positions of power. Many creative geniuses are living in the world right now without being recognized.

It turns out that the people whose bottoms are on the chairs of the top-position on the hierarchy scales are more of ass-lickers, back-stabbers, crowd-pleasing, army-suckers than actually brilliant human beings.

So to all of those who defend hierarchy: first you need to fix it, to actually put the best people on the best positions, and not simply the descendants of old criminal families (business magnates and politicians who made themselves by crooked means), the corporation-butthole-lickers, the army-mediocrities (are there more retarded people then the ones one find in the army?).

[Anonymous No.10768516]

>>10768442
I was referring to the fact that by definition dominance hierarchies describe a social phenomenon (unlike blood cells). You're right about the blood cells, but since they're physical instead of social our conceptual understanding of the object does not change the underlying physical reality. Since dominance hierarchies are a description of higher order social relationships, the way we conceptualize them can change the thing itself.

[Anonymous No.10768520]

>>10768204
This has got to be one of the most egregious examples of squinting to find “issues” that affirm your pre-established bias against the article I’ve ever seen

>has any non-white man ever written a hitpiece on Memerson? i feel like it's always either women or whitey trying to fit in with the women
the author of this article is literally a black man

[Anonymous No.10768533]

>>10768511
sounds antisemitic

[Anonymous No.10768549]

>>10768516
>Since dominance hierarchies are a description of higher order social relationships, the way we conceptualize them can change the thing itself.
that's a good point, but still the lobster example is that hierarchies are as old as trees, so we don't know how attuned our biology may be to them, and very aggressive social engineering may be needed to destroy them

[Anonymous No.10768556]

>>>10768333
This isn't even exclusive to organized religion. Think about stuff like tribes who practice Potlach or Moka, what they're trying to do is leverage excess so the economy (in a much more literal sense than western economy can ever hope to be) of the tribe isn't disturbed. Just yesterday I was reading a book of interviews with Girard in which he mentions a tribe (don't remember which one or from where) in which whenever some particularly attention worthy object presents itself - be it for sofistication, novelty, prestige or whatever - the tribesmen quickly start giving said object to each other in an attempt to get rid of it. The kind of reckless profiteering bought about by protestantism is final proof we shouldn't trust anglos and germans.

[Anonymous No.10768558]

>>10768520
>has any non-white man ever written a hitpiece on Memerson? i feel like it's always either women or whitey trying to fit in with the women
>the author of this article is literally a black man
but that's the point, this wasn't a hitpiece, this was a decent informative article with some criticism

[Anonymous No.10768562]

>>10768556
>final proof we shouldn't trust anglos and germans.
as if this were ever in doubt

[Anonymous No.10768564]

>>10768333
Sorry, meant to reply to >>10768327

[Anonymous No.10768575]

>>10768511
Most of your post seems to me to be making Peterson's point for him. Indeed, if people correctly observed the purpose of hierarchy, then those hierarchies would more frequently reveal the peak of human competence in that area at the top of it.

Instead, people's minds are waylaid by all kinds of resentments and ideologies that curtail their ability to recognise individual competence when they see it, and so they promote/vote for people who aren't as cut out for the job as some visible competition.

[Anonymous No.10768578]

>>10768562
>>10768556
On my phone can someone give me that "Time to destroy Europe" maymay?

[Anonymous No.10768582]

>>10768549
In my OP I said that there's no implication social hierarchies can be done away with just because they're a "social construct." Just that their manifestations are pretty malleable.

[Anonymous No.10768583]

>>10768578
>that "Time to destroy Europe" maymay?

[Anonymous No.10768590]

>>10768488
I think comments like yours do a much better job of that. The man preceding him appointed two supreme court judges whose construction amounts to
>whatever is popular among the bourgeois

[Anonymous No.10768595]

>>10768590
>The man preceding him appointed two supreme court judges whose construction amounts to
>>whatever is popular among the bourgeois

Thats kind of the point of the Supreme Court

[Anonymous No.10768601]

>>10768595
I don’t even have a brainlet wojak for this one

[Anonymous No.10768602]

>>10768590
>I think comments like yours do a much better job of that.
Very rude tbqh.

Why would you assume I like Obama when I am criticizing democracy itself?

[Anonymous No.10768613]

>>10768602
I never said you liked Obama. You’re mom a fag

[Anonymous No.10768621]

>>10768145
You fucking retard. The hierarchy based capitalism gives the best equal chance of any current system, and as Peterson has discussed numerous times, you are likelier to earn more money if you're born with an IQ over 130 than if you were born in a rich family. I know facts are a hard thing to accept but that's how it is.

[Anonymous No.10768627]

He’s not even hard to BTFO, like come on we do it here every day

[Anonymous No.10768632]

/lit/ has finally become /r/badphilosopyhy/ and I'm loving it. All these right wing pseudo intellectuals deserve nothing but to be mocked.

[Anonymous No.10768641]

>>10768632
>not understanding how meme intellectuals work
you have to go back

[Anonymous No.10768643]

>>10768632
of course you post on Reddit lmao

[Anonymous No.10768649]

>>10768621
not really. jews are worthless leaders, they have no sense of taste or vision. we need philosopher kings

[Anonymous No.10768652]

>>10768632
>tfw think Peterson is an imbecile but enjoy how mad he makes left wing pseuds

Learn to ride the tiger

[Anonymous No.10768663]

>>10768621
>the hierarchy based capitalism gives the best equal chance of any current system
What is "hierarchy based capitalism," exactly? And the issue of what system gives people the most equal/fair opportunities to succeed is far from decided.

[Anonymous No.10768666]

>>10768012
yea, its the new yorker.

[Anonymous No.10768667]

>>10768652
He is though. It’s like he can’t even be bothered to google search what postmodernism is.

[Anonymous No.10768671]

>>10768019
That is a gross misrepresentation

[Anonymous No.10768675]

>>10768667
Beckett and Lacan are like my superheroes so I agree, yet the people he engages with are so much more dangerous and repulsive than he is foolish so let him arrange his army of erstwhile goobers to freak them out

[Anonymous No.10768686]

>>10768667
i mean yeah, memerson is a retard when it comes to anything related to philosophy, but he used postmodernism as a placeholder for all the meme degrees that plague the university nowadays, he could have used any name for it desu

[Anonymous No.10768687]

>>10768632
Pitiful post

[Anonymous No.10768689]

>>10768621
>The hierarchy based capitalism gives the best equal chance of any current system

I am not saying capitalism is the villain. But the system we have now certainly can be improved. Nordic countries are better than the US, for example: their form of capitalism is superior, it offers more opportunities for people of all sorts to explore their hidden possibilities.

>>10768621
>you are likelier to earn more money if you're born with an IQ over 130 than if you were born in a rich family.

I have read about it, but this point is not pacific at all. Books like “The Bell Curve” have been criticized by many researchers, not just by political correctness police.

There is not a pacific view about how IQ is influenced by the environment, and how much the situation of poor people is due to their “innate lower IQs”.

A simple example is that of black people: you simply cannot argue that they don’t start the hierarchical race with several factors against them. Keep in mind that up to 1964 and even after that many black folks could not use certain services, frequent certain schools or restaurants or hotels, etc. Also, imagine the families of slaves without any education being thrown out in the gutter to take care of themselves without any crumb of education, an in a society that generally saw them as walking trash. People like this would face a hard time even if they natural IQs were superior to 130.

Also, look at this:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/florence-rich-families-social-mobility-same-as-1427-a7056141.html

>Tax records have shown that Florence's richest families today are the same as in 1427

Much of society’s major families and magnates are descendent from people who, in the past, might have “conquered” their wealth and influence by dirty moves like back-stabbing, but-licking and war-raiding. I don’t see them as models of high IQ and hidden capacities, and I believe that they children would probably be surpassed by the children of other people if having to fight in equal conditions.

[Anonymous No.10768693]

>>10768671
Are you saying he doesn't want to use advanced bioengineering to transform us into merciless gladitorial crabmen?

[Anonymous No.10768697]

>>10768693
That would actually be more interesting than his real positions

[Anonymous No.10768700]

>>10768652

let me guess, you are a neoliberal and free-market supporter, right?

[Anonymous No.10768701]

>>10768686
>uses a word in a way that ignores its established meaning
>refuses to refer to people with their requested pronouns because they don't have established meanings

[Anonymous No.10768703]

>>10768001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq7W9frEPLg

where were you when JP got BTFO'd?

[Anonymous No.10768704]

>>10768697
It'd be more interesting than most positions

[Anonymous No.10768709]

>>10768689
i think you may be exaggerating how much stable power comes from backstabbing, even if there's some backstabbing at the people at the top (the king of emperor), there may still be a lot of cooperation among the people who formed the aristocracy or the priestly caste

[Anonymous No.10768716]

>>10768689
Italian here. Our society is basically a borbonic state characterized by corruption and leeching, completely different from the USA. Not to detract from your argument but you can't really say "look at Florence" because people who actually want to work here have to go to Germany and France. If anything our problem is that we aren't liberal enough.

[Anonymous No.10768718]

>>10768675
Yeah because people who want to use different bathrooms are dangerous

[Anonymous No.10768720]

>>10768700
No I'm actually largely ambivilent to the workings of government and economy. I consider myself a pragmatic Napoleonist more than anything.

[Anonymous No.10768721]

>>10768689
I have serious doubts the le nordic system could work in the us

[Anonymous No.10768725]

>>10768701
even if he is a retard there's still a difference between inventing words and forcing other people to use your invented words

[Anonymous No.10768728]

>>10768718
I more have in mind the systems that gave rise to such desires as a cynical monetization tool
The trannys are in the end of the day mere victims of their own fetishization that the powerful and deranged use to manipulate them.

[Anonymous No.10768739]

>>10768686
Just fucking say humanity majors then at least like holy fuck he’s misinforming his entire cult. The guy in fucking Johnstown wasn’t this retarded

[Anonymous No.10768747]

>>10768703
this is the worst one yet. also, I'm fucking sick of this proxy discussion, just state outright what it is you want to talk about:

is our current dominance hierarchy "natural" or is it a social construct? are "white men" natural leaders or is a different hierarchical order conceivable? is it possible for humans to construct a society and do away with hierarchies all together?

[Anonymous No.10768752]

Peterson is a pseudo-intellectual. The problem is that the left is incoherent: their intellectuals are pseudo-intellectuals too.

[Anonymous No.10768753]

>>10768718
it may be for women who don't want to share bathrooms with 7'2" chads with hairy balls though

[Anonymous No.10768754]

>>10768739
>humanities majors spend literally all their time redefining words to make proles look dumb
>get cosmically butthurt when somebody else starts using words how they like
P O T T E R Y
O
T
T
E
R
Y

[Anonymous No.10768757]

>>10768753
and who fucking cares about women

[Anonymous No.10768759]

Must be nice nice living in some libshit area and saving money on the plumbing when you build a new bar or club and make like one set of gender neutral stalls

[Anonymous No.10768761]

>>10768757
I do, they're pretty and soft and smell good

[Anonymous No.10768762]

>>10768747
>t. didn't watch the video
He's talking about about evolutionary biology and the role of serotonin and other chemicals in the nervous system, how much more specific do you want his claims to be?

[Anonymous No.10768765]

>>10768725
He’s using the wrong words though. Like if someone said they were melancholy when really the mean apathetic ONCE then it’s fine they learned, but Petty just says this stupid shit over and over, making him a laughing stock

[Anonymous No.10768767]

>>10768747

found the pseud

[Anonymous No.10768770]

>>10768754
Fucking this.

[Anonymous No.10768781]

>>10768102
The lowest of the low would not be able to accept hierarchies, it would be simply too painful for them.

[Anonymous No.10768782]

>>10768754
Their not calling their cats oranges anon, they are redefining words like considering slang in dictionary. He’s using the word for stupid agenda bullshit that has nothing to actually do with the word

[Anonymous No.10768783]

>>10768781
They arguably did for millenia in India

[Anonymous No.10768784]

>>10768765
so? as >>10768754 said redefining words for your own purposes is the whole point of the humanities at this point, don't see why the rest of the people can't play that game against them too

[Anonymous No.10768789]

>>10768782
>they are redefining words like considering slang in dictionary
or like redefining "racism" to whatever is convenient for their own agenda of the day

[Anonymous No.10768790]

>>10768784
Stopping people playing the game is also part of the game

[Anonymous No.10768796]

>>10768782
>stupid agenda bullshit that has nothing to actually do with the word
Like, say, 'whiteness' or 'racism', or the absolute cream of the crop- 'privilege'

[Anonymous No.10768804]

>>10768784
>I believe x is morally wrong
>I will knowingly partake in x to spite those that partake in x
>I am now one of those persons who partakes in x
>I see no logical issue in believing x is morally wrong and actively partaking in x

[Anonymous No.10768819]

>>10768804
>i believe shooting at people is bad
>my neighbor is shooting at me
>i guess i won't shoot back because it's bad and just take it

[Anonymous No.10768823]

>>10768819
Thats literally the message of Christ

[Anonymous No.10768824]

peterson is gay and i could beat him in a fight while he cries about postmodernism

[Anonymous No.10768825]

>>10768784
>>10768789
>>10768796
Holy shit I’m saying use the right fucking words if you want to preach your retardation to the masses. The humanities IS what Jordan should be saying, but instead he’s yelling and raving about postmodernist, which is a completely different group.

[Anonymous No.10768839]

>>10768825
he doesn't hate the humanities, just its current form, so he had to find a meme name for it

yes, postmodernism is bad, but it could have been worse, he could have chosen cultural marxism and then we would have to complain even harder

[Anonymous No.10768840]

>>10768825
A completely different group according to the humanities. We are free to lump them all in as Postmodernists if we feel like it because language doesn't have a Tsar presiding over its usage

[Anonymous No.10768846]

>>10768824
But if you beat him that means he wins

[Anonymous No.10768847]

>>10768819
>comparing Memerson misrepresenting philosophical concepts to shooting another person to save your life
The saddest part of the argument is that I bet you actually think that's a coherent analogy, which is all the more reason Memerson needs to tighten up his arguments. This level of logical cope is the danger he is so polemic about lmao.

[Anonymous No.10768848]

>>10768839
Don’t use meme names for shit that doesn’t make sense. If he even said the soyboy he’d sound less stupid, despite it being a horrible phase, because it would make sense

[Anonymous No.10768849]

>>10768013
read the article, faggot.

[Anonymous No.10768854]

>>10768847
the irony of this post not actually addressing the argument

[Anonymous No.10768858]

>>10768847
it represents conservatives being cucked by the tactics of the left for a long time and only recently starting fighting back with similar tactics, i believe it's an apt analogy Memerson aside

[Anonymous No.10768859]

>>10768840
Then why can boy call themselves girls or whatever is popular now?
> but they’re FORCING us to call them a name
No they aren’t cry me a river you muppet lover

[Anonymous No.10768865]

>>10768762
I've seen it already and he expertly communicates the idea that lobsters aren't human and there's more going on in the brain besides serotonin, riveting stuff. peterson's argument is:

dominance hierarchies having a biological basis isn't a totally unreasonable idea because we can see these kinds of neurological responses in other animals. I guess he could talk about neurological studies done on humans but lobsters are cooler and his argument isn't "this is settled science, bucko!" but "let's not completely disregard the possibility of biological basis, let's be humble, lets remain open-minded"

he is basically trying to defuse the situation and calm the people screaming "white privilege" and "patriarchy"

[Anonymous No.10768867]

>>10768001

So I was reading a book the other day.

[Anonymous No.10768869]

>>10768859
they can call themselves whatever they like and we can call them retards, everybody wins this way

[Anonymous No.10768870]

>>10768859
i don't care about all that m8, i am just calling out the hypocrisy of the humanities, not supporting Peterson and his band of merry faggots

[Anonymous No.10768875]

>>10768854
The argument highlights the fact that objective morality leaves no room for particulars. Congratulations, you just found out what post-kantians have been dealing with for hundreds of years. Now, someone like Memerson, who is all about the rejection of subjective interpretations in favor of the "few true interpretations", should actually have to deal with this problem. He is the one claiming something like 'x is morally wrong in an objective sense'. I'm just pointing out the absurdity of his logic, which you seem to agree with.

[Anonymous No.10768878]

>>10768739
>The guy in fucking Johnstown wasn’t this retarded
You're so fucking biased out the ass

[Anonymous No.10768879]

>>10768870
IM NOT TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE HUMANITIES ARE DOING IM SAY PETERSON IS DUMB BECAUSE HE USES WORDS INCORRECTLY

[Anonymous No.10768881]

>>10768865

this would be a great counter argument if I was still in high school

the fact is there is not a shred of hard evidence that dominance hierarchies are biological imperatives in humans. none. AND even if there was, that wouldn't necessarily be a reason to willingly succumb to it. But that's beside the point, because until even a single solitary datum turns up, it's not worth discussing.

Peterson is a pseud, and I'm sorry to hear you fell for his sales pitch.

[Anonymous No.10768885]

>>10768487
It was the basis of some of the oldest lasting civilizations on earth.

Ever wonder why rural communities are dying? Why culture is dying? Its the fluid hierarchies of capital and consumption that exist today.

[Anonymous No.10768889]

>>10768875
anon was saying that self-defense is different than being the first attacker, which is a coherent comparison regardless of the severity of the attacks, isn't it?

I don't see what it has to do with objective morality, it's not 'particulars' it's two different classes of action

[Anonymous No.10768890]

>>10768878
It was a joke about cults calm down

[Anonymous No.10768892]

>>10768752
>Peterson is a pseudo-intellectual
In what fashion?

[Anonymous No.10768897]

>>10768865
>peterson rants for hours on end about how he is better than postmoderns because he deals with objective things like scientific facts
>peterson is claiming the science can't give us objective facts yet
how very postmodern of him

[Anonymous No.10768899]

>>10768889
>I don't see what it has to do with objective morality
then you probably don't watch JP videos

[Anonymous No.10768900]

>>10768890
Sorry, but Anons on here are so hyperbolic in their critique of Peterson that you might actually have thought that

[Anonymous No.10768906]

>>10768013

[Anonymous No.10768909]

>>10768881
hey bud, I'm not too up to date with the latest coolest neurological studies but maybe something like this would be relevant?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430590/

> that wouldn't necessarily be a reason to willingly succumb to it.
exactly, you admit that it is a proxy discussion. you don't even care if it's biological. cmon, stop being a passive-aggressive lil bitch boi and tell me how you want to restructure society. who should be at the top or do you feel like we could all abolish all hierarchies?

[Anonymous No.10768911]

>>10768892
He doesn't understand Nietzsche nor Jung. If they were alive today they would disagree with many of the things he says.

[Anonymous No.10768913]

>>10768906
:)

[Anonymous No.10768914]

We know what the problem with the publishing industry is. We're going to see in the future a modern jewish expulsion order like in the old days. These people just can't stop attacking from the inside.

[Anonymous No.10768915]

>>10768906
ha ha

[Anonymous No.10768920]

>>10768911
>He doesn't understand Nietzsche nor Jung
In what manner?
>If they were alive today they would disagree with many of the things he says.
Well, that's fine. Peterson himself disagrees with some of the things they said.

[Anonymous No.10768925]

>>10768001
>>10768004
I just read the whole thing. There is no takedown here. It's a fair and nuanced summary of who he is and what he's done and said and why he's rising to fame.

[Anonymous No.10768931]

>>10768372
>Voting for Trump was a vote against Hillary, the press, Hollywood, academia.
>A vote against all the things decent people hate.

So the decent people, getting fed up with rich coastal elites, decided to vote for an even richer part of the coastal elite instead just to show em?

[Anonymous No.10768938]

>>10768925
I know but saying that doesn't get (you)s

[Anonymous No.10768940]

>>10768931
cutting the nose und so weiter

[Anonymous No.10768949]

>>10768001
I'm not a big fan of Peterson's work, although I appreciate it (his non-poppsychology stuff) for its usefulness in his field. However, watching people freak out over his mostly innocuous diatribes says a lot more about society and the state of public discourse in the epoch of post-modern fragmentation than it does about his work itself. The guy is an OK psychologist but he's a brilliant social provocateur, I know the contrarians here want to hate him because of his popularity among the youtube watching eceleb worshipping crowd but I think his role as a social/intellectual actor is essential right now. I hope the NewYorker and Jacobin tier left continue to attack him, it'll only bolster his position.

[Anonymous No.10768951]

>>10768909

lmao

b8ed so fucking hard.

I know that study exists, moron. It's one of the first things that comes up when you google neurological basis for hierarchy. But you have tacitly admitted that JP doesn't base his arguments in fact, but in wild conjecture and misapprehended science. Thanks for the laugh, though, kid. It's been fun.

[Anonymous No.10768954]

>>10768012
the whole thing is filled with little dog whistles to make their pretentious liberal readership scoff. william f buckley/mention of fox news... pewdiepie that liberals already associate as an antisemite ... the anti-weed thing... that mention of the cathy newman debate leaves out how humiliating it was for her and resorts his argument down to a gotcha. understand they are being neutral as possible on the surface but if you understand the mindset of the gay writer, it is filled to the brim with acid.

[Anonymous No.10768957]

>>10768931
Normal people understand accelerationism. They just want everything to burn

[Anonymous No.10768987]

>>10768951
>But you have tacitly admitted that JP doesn't base his arguments in fact
I honestly believe it's more effective to simply be a good polemicist and a good debater if you want to convince people. it's easier to build a movement by saying "black lives matter" than talking about statistics on police violence. the guy does well and I literally lold out loud when he said "multi-variate analysis" when talking about the gender pay gap.

> Thanks for the laugh, though, kid. It's been fun.
no worries m8

[Anonymous No.10768991]

>>10768954
Sure but thats still way more than you expect given our current climate

[Anonymous No.10769124]

>>10768781
>The lowest of the low would not be able to accept hierarchies, it would be simply too painful for them.

Or they would accept the concept of hierarchies but then delude themselves into thinking that they're not REALLY plebs because (insert ratiocination here).

[Anonymous No.10769130]

just gonna leave this here...

[Anonymous No.10769135]

>>10769130

[Anonymous No.10769138]

>all these people that dont understand what hierarchies are claiming they are normal
wew lad

[Anonymous No.10769140]

>>10769135

[Anonymous No.10769158]

>>10769124
Plenty of people are perfectly aware that they are human refuse (more people should be, of course), especially on 4chan. Your implication that everybody is naturally shameless and deluded in this regard is kind of insulting.

[Anonymous No.10769168]

>>10769135
>>10769130
>>10769140
Why is Peterson wearing Venetian plague era S&M gear, is this what the dominance hierarchy looks like?

[Anonymous No.10769174]

>>10768019
>ubercretur
I liked it anon

[Anonymous No.10769184]

>>10769138
>I pretend that people don't realize that systems are not tree graphs, neither are hierarchies.
Quite lazy bastardization of the other's argument.

[Anonymous No.10769193]

>>10769168
I don't think he is the dominant one here, anon

[Anonymous No.10769204]

>>10768931
He rubs sand in the vaginitis of the elites. His wealth and power are irrelevant. His worth is his ability to irritate cunts to the point of screaming fits.

[Anonymous No.10769222]

>>10769204
he IS the elite you absolute mongoloid. You literally voted for the thing you were voting against.

[Anonymous No.10769225]

>>10769222
>>10769204
pro-tip: both canditates represented an elite.

[Anonymous No.10769229]

>>10769184
>lazy
thats right
>pretend that people don't realize that systems are not tree graphs, neither are hierarchies.
thats wrong.
the point is they think that being first in line puts someone at the top of a hierarchy.
it could be said that it creates a hierarchy but to use that to justify hierarchies like pic rcelated as natural is factitious. These kind of domination hierarchies are brought about by conventions and the domination is arbitrary.
furthermore and you might get this judging from your posts, hierarchy is entirely abstract.
a corporation is held to together ass backwards compared to a natural hierarchy like a biological organism

[Anonymous No.10769234]

>>10769222
>you literally voted

No I literally didn’t. I’m not even registered

[Anonymous No.10769235]

>>10769229
>>10769184

[Anonymous No.10769236]

>>10769234
and I am not even american, but even I can see that supporting Trump is a surefire way to prove to other people how retarded you are.

[Anonymous No.10769248]

>>10769235
This is a pretty bad example considering its about a fucking absolute monarchy

[Anonymous No.10769251]

>>10769236
Wtf I'm with HER now

[Anonymous No.10769258]

>>10769251
Hillary is also a massive cunt. Like I said, I am not american and I am glad I didn't have to make that choice, but I guess only in the land of extortionate healthcare and fortnightly mass shootings can people think that Donald Trump will be a good president.

[Anonymous No.10769259]

>>10769236
American politics is usually a lesser of two evils kind of thing.
Trump might not care much for white males but at least he dislikes wetbacks and religion of peace jihadis more
Hillary and her supporters just flat out hate white males

[Anonymous No.10769264]

>>10768689
>Nordic countries
>reprehensibly homogenized nations with small populations

Yeah everything in your post is retarded and naive, imo

Also
>Italy

Lmao, have you even been there?

[Anonymous No.10769268]

>If you are like most people, you don’t often think about lobsters2—unless you’re eating one. However, these interesting and delicious crustaceans are very much worth considering

I was mildly annoyed when that footnote didn't turn out to be what I thought it would be. Though it's not a surprise, considering that he hates those "corrupt postmodernists" so much.

[Anonymous No.10769269]

>>10769258
You mean a country where people are still alive and handed fallen into such nihilistic despair that they handed all public matters off to overbearing technocrats such is the state of Europe

[Anonymous No.10769282]

>>10769269
Who cares when you get murdered during math class before you even hit puberty?

Or when you can't speak to half your family because they're drones to opioids?

Or when you can't pay for your cancer treatment anymore and have to concede to death?

Keep letting that american self-importance boil over. The resources are there, but your country is a cultural shit hole. Everybody laughs at you, and let me tell you, Trump is the icing on the comedy cake.

[Anonymous No.10769286]

>>10769282
this
>>10769269
fucking hell i cant wait to leave this shithole when i graduate

[Anonymous No.10769288]

>>10769248
no it isnt, the all hierarchies with authority have the same sort of orientation and structure. the rule system is the only thing that changes.
we have to destroy them all

[Anonymous No.10769290]

>>10768039
Yes, but women still need a man to raise their child. So in an ideal society the men would raise children that are not their own, and the women would only breed with the local king/leader/führer, which would be the healthiest, strongest and smartest man.

It's not easy to convince inferior men to not breed however, so a hierarchical society with a "king lobster" and chemical castration for the rest would be the best. Just imagine it, 99% of the poulation would be cucked in this scenario.

[Anonymous No.10769292]

>>10769288
BURN IT DOWN

[Anonymous No.10769294]

>>10769290
including you, the amount of bootlicking here is ridiculous

[Anonymous No.10769304]

>>10769286
>fucking hell i cant wait to leave this shithole when i graduate
t. pic related

I'm actually something of a European, Irish. I can see both sides enough to know that the only reason Europe functions any better than the US is because no one cares enough to get in the way and that indifference will slide it into the abyss

[Anonymous No.10769308]

>>10769282
Meh, we survived 8 years of a Kenyan Muslim running things. Having an old white guy who doesn’t know what he’s doing running things is more a return to normalcy than any big crisis.

[Anonymous No.10769314]

>>10769282
Bad things happen to people regardless you dipshit, in your precious Europe high schoolers still get hit by cars or get cancer and die.
The moment we value things in life on the mere basis of such suburban concerns is the moment is the moment when we have no reason to care about our lives to begin with.
So yeah who does give a shit about some dumb ass kids getting shot, I most definately do not, fuck them

[Anonymous No.10769316]

>>10769258
>this meme sociology
Whenever I start to hate my country, I need only observe a few foreigners.

[Anonymous No.10769327]

>>10769294
I don't believe in genes being alpha and omega, so I wouldn't support eugenics.

But if you believe in nature over nurture then raising your own child is a mistake, since there's better genes out there.

[Anonymous No.10769342]

>>10769282
>Who cares when you get murdered during math class before you even hit puberty
Muh mass shootings may may

[Anonymous No.10769343]

>>10769229
Now that I think about it JBP also tends to be a lazy fucker, tho that's sometimes for the sake of readability.
>the point is they think that being first in line puts someone at the top of a hierarchy.
That's how human's think. That's what serotonin's for.
>These kind of domination hierarchies are brought about by conventions and the domination is arbitrary.
Yes, they are built on tradition. Yes, being competence does not always help you move along these hierarchies. But being incompetent does guarantee you falling out of the hierarchy (if that's not the case, then that social structure is faulty, and I don't think peterson denies that, but correct me if I'm wrong). That's why competence is assured in such structures. Can it have other faults? Sure. Should something be done about that. Yes. But I doubt other structures would prevent abuse of power, while sufficient competence wouldn't be assured.
> judging from your posts
My first post in the thread my dude
>hierarchy is abstract
fair enough
>a corporation is held to together ass backwards
If it gets big and therefore corrupt enough then of course other factors come to play. The problem is I don't see how dismantling these structures would solve anything, except that minimum necessary competence at all levels wouldn't be assured.

[Anonymous No.10769351]

>>10769316
>>10769342
If you have to use the word 'meme' to make your argument, you have already failed.

>>10769314
>So yeah who does give a shit about some dumb ass kids getting shot, I most definately do not, fuck them
*definitely
I'd suggest you go to school, but I don't want to be an accomplice to murder.


You do realise you guys being desensitised to mass shootings completely proves my point, right?

[Anonymous No.10769356]

>>10769351
>If you have to use the word 'meme' to make your argument, you have already failed.
What percent of deaths do mass shootings account for?

[Anonymous No.10769364]

>>10768009
>>10768014
>posting an anime reaction image AND questioning someone else's intellect
shiggy!
>reddit tier "you're alright" upboat
diggy!

[Anonymous No.10769384]

>>10769356
A very tiny amount. What's your point? That makes shooting children in school okay? Because it doesn't happen a lot? Come off it.

Also good job completely ignoring my other points. Classic American selective reading, I guess. Or can your greasy burger brain only be angry at one thing at a time?

[Anonymous No.10769387]

>>10769351
>You do realise you guys being desensitised to mass shootings completely proves my point, right?

No it proves my point, in a world in which human life is so useless and arbitrary to us all the last thing we need is to fall back on idealizing the powers of large beurocratic administration

[Anonymous No.10769401]

>>10769387
you described it as 'suburban concerns'. Your morals have been raped by the American culture. I am not surprised that you are a deranged edgelord.

[Anonymous No.10769403]

>>10769384
>That makes shooting children in school okay?
A true intellectual here.
You're making a general point about my country, or at least trying to. Generally speaking, "mass shootings" don't really account for much gun death. So why bring it up?
Answer: When the deaths occur in the same place it fires up a certain part of your foreign peabrain to consider them as a "tragedy"

[Anonymous No.10769419]

>>10769403
Read my post again you dense brick. I'm not making a point specifically about mass shootings and gun deaths, I am saying they are a symptom of your retarded culture. I am not trying to throw statistics in your face, I am trying to show you how your ambivalence towards these things is actually helping my case more than it is yours.

[Anonymous No.10769420]

>>10769384
I don’t think anybody is saying school shootings are okay. Most likely Cruz will fry unless he has some really brilliant lawyers. But most Americans have accepted it because guns are too important to them. Just like cars are too important to us to lose much sleep over the high number of traffic fatalities.

Plus it doesn’t matter who is president the 2nd Amendment isn’t going anywhere

[Anonymous No.10769421]

>>10769401
School shootings is the definition of a suburban concern, its one of the most suburban phenomenon imaginable. I use it as an insult because the response to it isn't to delve into any deeper implications of what it means and why it happens. Instead we jump straight to trying to simply manage it away like a matter of public sanity
No I unironically support school shooters, I think they do a great service for human life by raising awareness that there is something more to reality than the mere conveyer belt through the motions that schools so perfectly represent

[Anonymous No.10769426]

>>10769264
we're getting that diversity and I can tell you right now that we wont be able to have all these safety nets for much longer. it makes me cringe when americans say that they want nordic style capitalism or whatever. it worked here because we were homogenous high-trust societies, not because we're more le rational thinkers

read putnam's bowling alone

[Anonymous No.10769429]

>>10769419
>I'm not making a point specifically about mass shootings and gun deaths
That's precisely what I addressed
>You're making a general point about my culture
Not reading the rest of your post lol

[Anonymous No.10769432]

>>10769351
america doesn't have a high per capita rate of mass shootings
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/

your mind has been utterly memed by leftist propaganda

[Anonymous No.10769437]

>>10769364
>giving attention to retards
doo!

[Anonymous No.10769448]

>>10769429
>Generally speaking, "mass shootings" don't really account for much gun death. So why bring it up?

You're clearly hyperfocused on the mass shooting point but...

...you can actually forget mass shootings exist altogether and my point still stands because of my other points about your dire healthcare 'system' and pharmaceutical companies conveniently pushing cheap pill-form alternatives show that your country is a cultural shithole and I haven't even begun to scratch the surface why.

>>10769432
jesus christ it's like the word 'mass shooting' is put on the internet and it sends out a letter to everyone subscribed the NRA newsletter to remind them to crawl out of the woodwork and prove to me that mass shootings are totally okay and totally nothing man

[Anonymous No.10769453]

>>10769448
>jesus christ it's like the word 'mass shooting' is put on the internet and it sends out a letter to everyone subscribed the NRA newsletter to remind them to crawl out of the woodwork and prove to me that mass shootings are totally okay and totally nothing man
Very typical leftist response, instead of admitting your mistake like a man, you weasel and splutter

[Anonymous No.10769458]

>>10769453
oof ow man you got me. read my other posts if you want actual arguments.

[Anonymous No.10769473]

>>10769448
Some fags can’t handle their drugs and od. Does that mean I shouldn’t be allowed to snort crushed up OxyContin?
Checkmate gun grabbers.

[Anonymous No.10769475]

>>10769448
>you can actually forget mass shootings exist altogether
I'd rather not forget the comments that prove you're brainlet whose media leads him here and there by the tip of his nose.
> of my other points about your dire healthcare 'system' and pharmaceutical companies conveniently pushing cheap pill-form alternatives show
This reads like pure platitude. A great deal more healthcare innovation occurs here than anywhere else, especially as respecting the pharmaceutical industries.
>b-but what about the people who won't buy insurance! you need an inefficient bureaucracy like us!
lmao you're a bore

[Anonymous No.10769485]

>>10769475
Considering one of my main points is that american self-importance and delusion is the cause of your cultural shitstorm, please keep trying to defend your country! This is really funny to read.

[Anonymous No.10769504]

>>10769485
>if u disagree with me I win
top cope

[Anonymous No.10769506]

>>10769504
if you disprove your enemy's argument, he wins

[Anonymous No.10769521]

>>10769506
>enemy'
cringe'd hard
what is wrong with foreigners?

[Anonymous No.10769523]

>>10769521
it's a justin trudeau meme u unworldly swine

[Anonymous No.10769533]

>>10769448
>muh NRA boogeyman

[Anonymous No.10769596]

>>10769521
>what is wrong with foreigners?
They smell bad when they're not white

[Anonymous No.10769610]

>>10769596
>Americans
>white

[Anonymous No.10769627]

>>10768632
How does it feel to know that a fucking New Yorker article was ten times more fair and measured than you are?

[Anonymous No.10769634]

>>10769610
you should look at a map of the northern US sometime man, its pretty fucking white. the 75-90% white zones, that non-white admixture is purely pockets of asians and spics

[Anonymous No.10769644]

>>10768703
It's sure easy to look correct when you're arguing against points someone never made in the first place
Some of the comments rightly point out the flaws in this video

[Anonymous No.10769649]

>>10768632
fuck off

[Anonymous No.10769651]

>>10768013
>I dont know anything about this meme-guy, just have been seen him a lot around here in the last weeks.
I assume by this you mean daily threads since late 2016.

[Anonymous No.10769653]

>>10768632
/lit/ is truly the worst board

[Anonymous No.10769667]

>>10768632
end yourself

[Anonymous No.10769670]

>>10769448
>jesus christ it's like the word 'mass shooting' is put on the internet and it sends out a letter to everyone subscribed the NRA newsletter to remind them to crawl out of the woodwork and prove to me that mass shootings are totally okay and totally nothing man
I just now learned that I should never hold a position of power because I am feeling emotions towards this post that would most likely end in an execution if I had that power available to me

[Anonymous No.10769672]

>>10768001
>Kelefa Sanneh

[Anonymous No.10769673]

>>10769672
Read the article. OP didn't.

[Anonymous No.10769703]

>>10768043
I cant see any misogyny in him though, if anything he nearly worships females as the superior sex.

[Anonymous No.10769705]

>>10768879
The absolue state of postmodernists.

[Anonymous No.10769770]

Shameless Petersonbait. Why are threads like this allowed at all?

[Anonymous No.10769793]

>>10769770
>A writer isn't on topic if I don't like him

[Anonymous No.10769804]

What a waste; it’s just a boring biography. We have already heard everything that was written in this. Even the most anti-Peterson opinion pieces are better than this.

[Anonymous No.10769832]

>>10768149
economically speaking, there isn't much you can do, besides welfare redistribution tax changes etc.

anything beyond social democracy is equality at expense of everyone else

there is a reason (((corbyn))) got BTFO by economists

https://outline.com/mez92H

[Anonymous No.10769833]

>>10769804
It's actually filling in those who don't know who he is without proclaiming him to be a wise prophet or indefensible bigot
Clearly those who already know about him aren't the intended audience of the piece
But you already knew that, right anon?

[Anonymous No.10769856]

>>10768170
What do you think about sexual-social equality?
Socail hierarchy cuase mentall illness, bullying suicide for the bottom 5% or so, and current mental healthcare isn't helping much
Ugly people have few chances in life

[Anonymous No.10770030]

>>10768013
He links lobsters with the neurotransmitter serotonin. I recall him saying in one of his lectures that lobsters after losing a fight or confrontation will shrink down in stature showing their loss of dominance in the social hierarchy. Their serotonin levels will also decrease. If you give them SSRIs, and increase serotonin levels, they will revert to a more dominant posture.

[Anonymous No.10770141]

He's primarily a an e-celeb marketing his persona as a business, to sell books, patrons and so on.

He's not as mart as he makes himself out to be.
>humblebrags an iq of 146
I'll believe that when an official test in a controlled environment confirms it.