/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10761940]

>book refers to abstract agents in the third person as "she"

[Anonymous No.10761981]

>>10761940
i feel ya. that is quite stupid.

[Anonymous No.10761991]

>>10761940
I was suprised when even Jordan Peterson does this in his book

[Anonymous No.10762002]

>book doesn't refer to God as "it"
Disgusting. Stop sucking fairytale uncle's imaginary dick.

[Anonymous No.10762162]

>>10761940

Yes, this habit is annoying because it snags the reader's concentration every time and basically turns the book from whatever it ought to be into a political tract.
I actually think it might be good to have a word meaning "he or she", even though we generally have disdain for forced memes.
I know people have tried pushing "xe" but I am not convinced this is the best choice; it feels too alien.
Maybe it would work better to try to use some obsolete word like "ye" or "thee". This sort of thing fits more organically into the language, both in terms of the sound and the look of it on the page..

[Anonymous No.10762182]

>>10761940
> changes pronouns constantly
It would make its ambiguity of the object or entity better

[Anonymous No.10762183]

>Indeed,

[Anonymous No.10762187]

Yes the patriarchy sucks but who will come up with a replacement?

[Anonymous No.10762201]

>>10762162
No, it should be "he". Period.

[Anonymous No.10762208]

>>10762201
Yeah but then it just assumes the object or entity is masculine

[Anonymous No.10762219]

>>10762183
Wait, is "Indeed," bad?

[Anonymous No.10762258]

>>10762162
“They”, you can use it as a singular, people have been for centuries since English dropped its formal register which contained a third person plural.

>>10761940
I’ve actually often wondered if there are people in the interest getting butthurt about something that doesn’t matter at all, and today I learned there are.

[Anonymous No.10762259]

>>10762187
patriarchy is pure kino. women are just unfit for leadership, and as animals as we are, we need a strong leadership or its just like monkeys with machine guns.

[Anonymous No.10762267]

>>10762258
>something that doesn’t matter at all
but it matters. youre suppossedly reading an intelligent piece, and then it hits you with a "she", which implies all that YASS WE WAS GODDESS YASSSS ideology, so the text ends reduced to a piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.10762273]

>>10762208
"He" is actually the gender neutral pronoun in English.

>>10762162
You could just use "one" if it really bothers you that much, constructing sentences around "one" isn't very difficult.

[Anonymous No.10762279]

>>10762259
Some animals has matriarchal systems though. If women were the stronger gender then the world would be very different, maybe even better

[Anonymous No.10762282]

Gentle reminder that although we may not explicitly have grammatical gender in English, the ancestor languages did, and the remnants are still heard today. ESL may not pick up on this, but come on guys every native English speaker should have picked up on this by now.
Just a few examples...
>Boats/Ships/Planes are fem.
>Countries are Motherland or Fatherland
>Rivers are fem.
>Machines can be masc. or fem. (Big Bertha)

[Anonymous No.10762308]

>>10762282
>> rivers are fem
Gotta disagree with you there. Most consider it as masculine. An example is the Mississippi River, which was called ol man river

[Anonymous No.10762320]

>>10762219
i really dislike when academics and pseuds try to shoehorn it into their writing. if it's used appropriately i think it can help support a strong point. but most of the time it's just a pretentious and unnecessary flourish for a banal argument.

[Anonymous No.10762360]

>>10762267
That’s on you, not the author. As people have pointed out, it’s literally a convention that some just pick up, including JORDAN PETERSON. If you find it so disrupting to your reading, then that exactly makes the point that we do indeed treat male as default, and write as if women have no agency.

[Anonymous No.10762361]

>>10762282
>>Boats/Ships/Planes are fem.
I find it hilarious that this is now considered offensive.

Like how much of a fucking pussy do you need to be to complain about something this petty? Historically, ships were given female names, as a sort of endearment. But no, instead of fighting against female general mutilation, male on male rape in prisons, or other equality issues, feminists would prefer spending their time arguing about pronouns.

[Anonymous No.10762407]

>>10762361
Now think about how petty it is to complain about a book referring to an abstract agent in the third person as "she".

[Anonymous No.10762419]

>>10761940
Guess you'd hate Grapes of Wrath then.

[Anonymous No.10762500]

>>10762407
I'm not OP but it's not petty, it really does break the flow of the text.

"If you ask a forklift driver what the best pizza topping is, she will tell it's-" what a sec, did I read that right? Why is it she and not he? I think I've missed something...

I heard that some authors do it because they don't like gender roles, so they refer to nurses as "he" and doctors as "she". Seems way too political, just use "they".

[Anonymous No.10762535]

>>10762201

You're mostly preaching to the choir - in general I am a strong proponent of using "he" and "man" to refer to the general case, and have got into many fights because of it.

Sometimes, though, a neutral pronoun IS useful.

>>10762258


"They" doesn't work. It has the same problems as "he"; i.e. overloading.

If a pronoun can be either "neutral" OR "specifically male" there will occasionally be problems, just as there will if it can be "neutral" OR "specifically plural".

[Anonymous No.10762559]

>>10762273
When a sentence could be referring to a man or a woman writers have traditionally defaulted towards masculine pronouns. This doesn't make it a gender-neutral pronoun.

[Anonymous No.10762572]

>>10761940
>reading textbook about game theory
>male author
>probably 90% male readers at least
>book refers to reader as "she"

[Anonymous No.10762685]

>>10762572

Osborne? Annoying as hell.
I love the way he says in the introduction "I couldn't think of any reason why NOT to use 'she' as the neutral pronoun..."
Really, you smug piece of crap?
Did you really give it earnest, impartial consideration?
How long did you devote to thinking of any possible drawbacks?
Five seconds, or a whole six?
Burn in hell.
(/rant hahaha)

[Anonymous No.10762715]

>>10761940
>What a blah blah it is!
>How blag blah it was!

Why did we have no many of these sentences in grade school grammar exercises, I have literally never seen these use in serious conversation

[Anonymous No.10762747]

>>10762219
indeed it is

[Anonymous No.10762877]

>>10761940
Seriously. I don't read female authors for a reason, don't drag that shit in

[Anonymous No.10762912]

>>10761940
>book refers to abstract agents in the third person as "she"
I actually love it when writers do this. It turns dry analysis into poetry

[Anonymous No.10763086]

>>10761940
>tfw I used to use a singular 'they' because my autism commanded it, way before it was a PC thing to do
>tfw I now have to go back to 'he' in order not to be mistaken for someone who has swallowed the PC-pill

[Anonymous No.10763089]

>>10762183
>Forsooth,

[Anonymous No.10763112]

>>10762002
>it
You'd have to at least capitalize it to It, and even still, that's derogatory.

[Anonymous No.10763123]

>>10762219
I have used this in every academic paper I've written, but it pisses me off to no end to read it in prose.

[Anonymous No.10763128]

>>10761940
>used BCE and CE

[Anonymous No.10763135]

>>10761991
He leads mostly with “he”, I think he uses she so as not to exclude the female reader from his advice

[Anonymous No.10763145]

>>10762320
Indeed, it significantly alienates the astute reader

[Anonymous No.10763154]

>>10762279
we are neurotic animals, we create. matriarchy can support a consumerist society, one of solace, but not one of creation. creativity is inherently male.

[Anonymous No.10763158]

>>10763128
This.
Use BC and AD or get another calendar you insufferable atheist

[Anonymous No.10763453]

>>10763145
yer time is up

[Anonymous No.10763455]

>>10762572
>reading textbook about game theory
Found your problem

[Anonymous No.10763608]

>>10762559
>this

[Anonymous No.10763712]

>in the future it'll be the norm to use Xie

[Anonymous No.10763918]

>>10763089
> Verily verily verily verily verily verily verily verily

[Anonymous No.10763931]

>>10763918
>Amen I say to you:

[Anonymous No.10764372]

Things and jobs that care for stuff or sustain/protect stuff, but also that you have to "contend" with/unpredictable = she: such as ship, nurse, building, artillery/big weapons, walls, the sea, nature, cars, homes, the weather, skill (like art forms), chairs, ladders; when you can use the word "she can make it".
He = predictable transformers, "leaders"/direction pointers: towers/lighthouse, bullets/bombs, roads/paths, the horizon, compass/direction, war, the sky, tools (hammer tells you what do, while a forklift is a she), doors/gates, keys, seeds, the land/fields; more abstract concepts.

Mountain, trees, and the Sun are vague to me. Sun sustain but also kills, trees create and lead but also nurse and house life; a mountain you climb is a she. But a volcano? Or the peak? Mountain ranges? He.

[Anonymous No.10764986]

Just fucking use "they." both he and she are retarded and stuff like xe is the worst possible choice. We've already got the convention. Why politicize it?

[Anonymous No.10765204]

>>10764986
because some things are male and some are female you filthy anglo

[Anonymous No.10765219]

>>10761940
any male authored nonfiction book that does this instantly begin cultivating hatred towards the author’s every insight

[Anonymous No.10765380]

>>10765204
Wacky how you'd use English conventions in the English langauge huh?

[Anonymous No.10766226]

>>10762535
Male is the neutral plural in Romance languages, so I'll roll with that.

[Anonymous No.10766290]

thank god my native language hos no grammatical gender whatsoever, all this indo european shit seems so autistic and really makes learning something like German a pain in the ass cause you have to remember the gender of every fucking noun

[Anonymous No.10766297]

>>10762320
This guy is being a fucktard right here. Who cares if someone uses the word 'indeed'? Are you fucking kidding me rn?

[Anonymous No.10766314]

>>10766290
Faggot.

[Anonymous No.10766326]

>>10761940
Every single piece of writing I have read so far in my first year studying philosophy at university does this.
Every. Single. Piece.
My hate for analytic philosophy grows daily. Anglos really are a cancer.

[Anonymous No.10766340]

>>10762267
>it hits you with a "she", which implies all that YASS WE WAS GODDESS YASSSS ideology
The only ideology at play here is your own. Using "she" doesn't necessarily mean the author is pushing an ideology, and if you think it does you're committing an intentional fallacy.

[Anonymous No.10766373]

>>10766340
Not him, but this tradition of using "she" sprang from a desire to confront the reader about her patriarchally inclined attitude towards philosophy. The poster you replied to is exaggerating, but don't try to deny the blatant ideology at play here.

[Anonymous No.10766383]

>>10766326
same and in poli-sci texts as well
>>10766373
yes, and its pathetic because you'll see things like
>when "SHE" the philosopher is thinking
>when "SHE" the president is deliberating
>when "SHE" the military leader is allocating
and its so fucking funny man, i can't fucking believe how much it would suck to be a woman and have to cope with your entire species contributing literally nothing, being basically a footnote in history and being totally unnecessary for civilization. Try as you might you will never escape IG and tindr whoring you will never escape "send me $5 and see what happens" you will never escape snapchat cheating, you will never escape makeup, you will never escape boob jobs and plastic surgery. I'm so sorry

[Anonymous No.10766404]

>>10766383
>women are a different species from men
>women are unnecessary for civilization
>all women fit in this one stereotype I read about on the internet
try harder anon

[Anonymous No.10766405]

>>10766326
Nothing since the '80s that has been written in analytic philosophy is worth reading, anyway
unironically read the philosophical classics instead

[Anonymous No.10766410]

>>10766383
Honestly, when I first started my studies I really expected more out of my philosophy professors. All women, of course, but that's irrelevant; what really upsets me is that they don't come off as particularly philosophically inclined or at all interesting. My university is nothing special, but it's a top 100 school with a decently sized student population. The size of the philosophy department is pitiful, and what there is is heavily analytic. I'm not against studying analytic philosophy, and I know that North America is very heavily immersed in the analytic tradition, but my professor was genuinely surprised when I asked whether we would be covering Hegel, and replied that there is no one in the department who teaches him. /lit/ was right. University is not nearly enough to properly educate myself, it must be done out of school. I only hope to go for a Master's or a PhD somewhere in Europe. Literature and philosophy seem to just be better there.

[Anonymous No.10766416]

>>10766405
See
>>10766410
It's fucking shite.

[Anonymous No.10766481]

bamp

[Anonymous No.10766522]

>>10766410
>all women, of course, but that's irrelevant
if only you were right

[Anonymous No.10766559]

>>10766522
I just wanted to remove any possible baitable material from my post. The philosophy department at my school is stocked with women and numales. The latter are unbearable, and turn me off of Academia as a whole. The former are just regular, somewhat intelligent women, albeit with a heavy third-wave feminist bent. In spite of all this, the philosophy department is still better than most departments in the arts and social sciences faculty, probably because the analytic leaning puts emphasis on formal logic and mathematics, and philosophy in general requires a great amount of abstract thought. But really, I just want to be left to my studies. I'd love to find a professor I respect, but so far the warmest feeling I've had towards any of them was a lukewarm "like."

[Anonymous No.10766577]

>>10766559
considered transferring universities?
all my lecturers and peers are fucking chinese and indian and I can't even understand what the fuck they are saying sometimes, having a regular boring professor would be heaven to me

[Anonymous No.10766586]

>>10766577
Unfortunately I have a somewhat established life here that I'm unwilling to just drop. As well, I think this problem persists across the world, and unless I manage to transfer to a very specific, highly prestigious university, I won't gain anything from it. In fact, I can transfer to a top 50 school in my city, but nothing would change in terms of philosophical or literary education. I'm planning to pursue grad or postgrad somewhere else though. Preferably at a well-respected philosophy/literature department more in line with my passions, maybe somewhere in Europe. I'm grinding my GPA for that.

What faculty are you in? Sounds like something sciencey.

[Anonymous No.10766592]

>>10766586
engineering
is the /lit/ life worth it, lad? I am beginning to resent my prospects and feel like a fool chasing this drudgery when my real interests are elsewhere

[Anonymous No.10766597]

My language is the most naturally PC indo-european language I can think of. It is fully gendered: every noun and pronoun must have a gender. Sounds problematic? Fear not! There is a third gender, the neuter. In order to appease all sides, the neuter gender takes the singular form from the masculine and the plural from the feminine. This applies to pronouns as well. Take that, patriarchy!

[Anonymous No.10766604]

>>10766577
>>10766559
leave now while you still have your will and sanity, it doesn't get better anywhere we're in the middle of a culture war and demographic replacement, you will never get back the rigor or fraternal environment you seek
>>10766404
Euler, Maxwell, Leibniz, Mach, Fermi, Tesla, Pearson, Hobbes, Schmitt, Heidegger, Freud, """""Shakespeare""""", Blake, Riemann, Turing, Heisenberg, von Neumann kys

[Anonymous No.10766610]

>>10766592
I can't really tell you, especially since I'm just wrapping up my first year. I don't think I could ever go do STEM, except for maybe mathematics. I'm sure I'm capable of it, but dropping my passions for practical pursuits is something I don't think I could bring myself to do, at least not at this point in life. It doesn't magically get better; there's a lot of bullshit in the English and philosophy departments, and in the Arts as a whole. But I think that if I do end up fulfilling the half-formed plan I have in mind, of going somewhere where I feel fulfilled and challenged, then it'll have all been worth it. My alternative is law, for which I also have to keep my grades up. But that's more what I tell people I'm going to do when they look at me funny after I mention my planned philosophy degree. Personally, I dislike what STEM culture is doing to universities, but the Arts are just as much to blame for their slow decline as anyone. Less people are getting PhDs in things like philosophy across the world, and there is less demand. It's really quite sad.

[Anonymous No.10766617]

>>10766604
I'd love to, but I don't think I can. I'd have nowhere to go, though it sickens me, the measly philosophy and literature departments are the best path I have to taking what I love and carving it into my life, in a sense. I don't want to do this in the evenings after my 9-5 job. I want to do this, really. Wholeheartedly.

[Anonymous No.10766627]

>>10766617
Maybe "measly" isn't the best word; I go to a fairly large, somewhat reputable university, after all. It is quite measly when compared to my admittedly naive expectation, really. But still. All these people, all this money, all this space, and it feels almost hollow, like my inner passion is only mine and it's so hard to share it with anyone.

Sorry for the blog posts, but I had to get it off my chest.

[Anonymous No.10766657]

>>10766627
last warning: leave now and do something else for money, you're going to hate your life in 10 years I can guarantee it
culture wars will get worse, anti-realist belief married to science and philosophy will become more virulent

[Anonymous No.10766670]

>>10766657
>spoiler
make it STOP

[Anonymous No.10766689]

>>10766657
Well, if this is the path I'll take, I guess I'll be in the front row seats. Or maybe onstage.

[Anonymous No.10766711]

How fucking autistic do you have to be for this to bother you?

[Anonymous No.10766800]

>>10766604
>Euler, Maxwell, Leibniz, Mach, Fermi, Tesla, Pearson, Hobbes, Schmitt, Heidegger, Freud, """""Shakespeare""""", Blake, Riemann, Turing, Heisenberg, von Neumann kys
Ayn Rand

[Anonymous No.10766829]

>>10762279
It’s not about strength my friend.
Fuck animals who cares?

[Anonymous No.10766834]

>>10762407
It would be if it wasn’t a political act to begin with.