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/lit/ - Literature

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10702285 No.10702285 [Reply] [Original]

Hey, what's the deal with Chinese philosophy? I don't know what I expected, but I read a famous text by Zhuang Zhou, in which he and a friend talks about knowing what the fish in the Hao River enjoy. It made absolutely no sense to me. Is all eastern philosophy as cryptic as this? And can anyone explain the story I mentioned? Here is an English version straight out of Wikipedia.
Zhuangzi and Huizi were strolling along the dam of the Hao Waterfall when Zhuangzi said, "See how the minnows come out and dart around where they please! That's what fish really enjoy!"

Huizi said, "You're not a fish — how do you know what fish enjoy?"

Zhuangzi said, "You're not me, so how do you know I don't know what fish enjoy?"

Huizi said, "I'm not you, so I certainly don't know what you know. On the other hand, you're certainly not a fish — so that still proves you don't know what fish enjoy!"

Zhuangzi said, "Let's go back to your original question, please. You asked me how I know what fish enjoy — so you already knew I knew it when you asked the question. I know it by standing here beside the Hao."

>> No.10702300

It's about how we can never know the thoughts of others but we can make inferences, I assume.

>> No.10702302

Someone please explain. Zen is as cryptic and nonsensical btw.

>> No.10702323

>>10702300

I think the last line is key. His friend assuming he knew proves that he knew because the friend wouldn't have asked 'how do you know?' unless he believed he knew.

>> No.10702325
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10702325

Zhuangzhi was right you know.

>> No.10702334
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10702334

resembles classic greek shitposting

>You have horns for you haven't lost any horns therefore you have them still !

>"When you shake out a sack of corn, which grain makes the noise? The first?" "No" . "The second?" "No" . "The third, etc.?" "No". "Therefore . . . ."

>One of Aristotle's disciples, Clearchus, wrote a Theory of the Riddle, particularly of the kind called griphos: a joke question-game played for rewards or forfeits. "What is the same everywhere and nowhere?" Answer : "Time" .

>"What I am you are not. I'm a man, therefore you're not a man". Diogenes is supposed to have said: " If you want it to be true you'd better begin with me" .

>> No.10702369

An Introduction to Chinese Philosophy by JeeLoo Liu
Readings in Classical Chinese Philosophy by Philip J. Ivanhoe, Bryan W. Van Norden

>> No.10702423

what is this pasta? Chinese philosophy does not deserve it, it is worth discussing seriously.

>> No.10702430

>>10702423
I've asked the question before with insufficient answers

>> No.10702996

>>10702285
This is something that stoners would do. Then they would get the munchies, eat pizza and forget they had the conversation. That's the true meaning.

>> No.10703045

>>10702285
I don’t know anything about Chinese philosophy, but It sounds like the message is supposed to be an epistemological one: we come to know the world through observating and experiencing it. Thus, he knows what fish enjoy by being by the Hao river and observing what they do.

Anyone wanna back up/destroy my interpretation?

>> No.10703052

>>10703045
*observing

>> No.10703208

>>10702334
Diogenes believed himself to be the model man, what he said isn't really shitposting its just a massive ego, he's telling others to be like him if they want to be men

>> No.10703252

>>10702996
>Dude, weed, lmao!
Nice rebuttal of Chinese philosophy.