/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10561284]

Any writers, philosophers, or theologians that jive with the big brain rung of pic related?

[Anonymous No.10561301]

Pretty sure that's the central concept of the Baha'i faith

Remniscent of Toynbee's beliefs about universal faith as well.

[Anonymous No.10561325]

>>10561301
Can any Bahaifags weigh in on this?

[Anonymous No.10561344]

I'm ----almost----- that last picture.

You see, I still believe in an actual deity of God. Who has given commands to us throughout the years. Like actually intervened. Commanded and pushed us in the right direction.

But I also think there is a divine logic that isn't in the primary theological texts. It's touched upon in the Quran. You see, what the Quran does, many other religious philosophers do as well: assign intrinsic philosophical properties to the actions of the divine being.

This is important because it defines a divine intelligence beyond our understanding that intervenes in times of great stress. Meaning that he understands all things we do and many things we do not. But this sort of thing isn't mentioned in the Bible. The Bible is simply a collection of what he has DONE, not why. Many times, the overall philosophy has to be interpreted, which you see priests do. But the larger theological questions that you might see expounded in Proclus' or Aquinas' proofs are no longer sought after or expanded upon. Instead, they aren't even considered: the average bible thumper considers himself stupid in comparison to science, which dogmatically asserts itself to be 100% correct.

With religious existentialism, you will find moments of self-empowerment, like the moral nihilists WANT, but will never receive, because they are not, in a Kierkegaardian sense, grounded in God. In this way, you can see this community distances itself from the modern Christians already. No, this platform wasn't meant for modern Christians, not this culture either. We are meant for something grander. But God-driven nonetheless.

To make a long, drawn-out story shorter, I just wanted to say you are right, the overall philosophical explanations of God's existence and his mentality behind his actions isn't spoken about enough. For instance: it could be said he condemned the treatment of slaves when he forced the Jews out of Egypt, which is further confirmed by the Quran. It could be said that God is trying to say something by outlawing pork in Judaism and Islam because it is a sign of overpopulation. The intelligence of the Lord is divine, and his way can be found in most things. You just have to sit tight and wait for the next prophet. All workings are coming in their due time. Through others, I find faith. And through faith, I find meaning.

[Anonymous No.10561348]

>this thread

[Anonymous No.10561363]

>>10561284
JOSEPH CAMPBELL GET OUT

[Anonymous No.10561532]

We approach Divinity through the individuals overcoming of its own undivine condition. Yeah God experiences itself but one degree better would be to say we experience the actualization of our own individual divinity instead of all settling on a universal telology

[Anonymous No.10561623]

>>10561344
OP here, I... almost... agree with your interpretation, minus the the idea of anthropomorphic intervention. Which i take to be something akin to a worried ant farmer poking his ants. I'd side with a more 100%-intervention-all-the-time notion where the deity and the motion of matter through time are thought of as analogous if not synonymous. This would be something akin to emanation or some such thing. I think the rise of sentience and evolution of free will has something to do with a moral imperative to will the course of events in a direction that reveals itself as the right direction by being charged with charged with a supra-moral significance... but that's just a hunch. Any writers for this feel?

[Anonymous No.10561640]

>>10561532
>we experience the actualization of our own individual divinity instead of all settling on a universal telology

I'm pretty on board with this, but how would individual actualisation be distinct from universal teleology? That'd be like saying, we should pay no mind to the tree just to the buds coming into bloom

[Anonymous No.10561650]

>>10561363
Dont let the normies ruin JC for you, he's not half bad. It was the "follow ur bliss" bit that sank him.

[Anonymous No.10561686]

>>10561344
The problem with this assessment is its grounding in rationality and law. Is God purely rational? Is He only concerned with law? If so, then he is undifferentiated from human thought.
Law can be seen in the light of God's Mills. Opposed to law and its rationalised formalism against the body, God takes retribution over time, grounding you down into grain. Only the wise can figure out this process, and what he has done to lead up to this point of destruction.
Rationalised, God is reduced into philosophy and then law. And overhardened we see the reaction and dismissal of its tenets, as is clear in Judaism and Catholicism in particular. Catholicism lasted only a few hundred years in pure form, and this is largely due to its over-rationalised law; effectively a consecration of idolism.

[Anonymous No.10561711]

>>10561532
Isn't this just akin to finding freedom in the space between one's ass and the chair? Or Baby Steps?
>Don't hassle me, God, I'm local.
Humans aren't divine. Unfortunate for Nietzsche that he didn't understand a basic semantics problem.

[Anonymous No.10561749]

>>10561711
Yes, anon was wrong to say we actualise our individual divinity, but the notion that it is possible to approach the divine through the overcoming of base nature seems uncontroversial to even the catholic cucks, no?

[Anonymous No.10561783]

>>10561749
Do we not overcome base nature through our very existence? That we are created in God's image (or Satan's) and not that of beasts? This would mean that overcoming base nature is not even a question, and so cannot be a source of divinity worship. Hence, the 'no good works' problem.

[Anonymous No.10561872]

>>10561783
My theological knowledge is non-existent but isn't that bit about us being created in the image of god the least convincing bit of scripture? The labour of willing yourself to cultivate a mind that seeks the sublime and the true rather than wanking it to anime with a tide pod in your mouth is what I take to mean overcoming base nature. Overcoming base nature by existing is nonsensical as existence is base nature

[Anonymous No.10562003]

>>10561284
So Im a philosophy major and Ive spent a good deal of my life trying different psychadelics and chilling with all kind of "Spiritual" people. Though Ive found some contentment in my life, I cannot agree with the last picture. Firstly, calling a vision "real" is just missing the whole point entirely. Secondly, I do not see enough proof for intelligent design, though I can see the argument that maybe a conscious force did influence evolution to a certain degree...maybe. Either way, ive had these "spiritual experiences", with very strong psychadelics like ayausca and peyote, and Ive had meaningful moments sober, but I dont see "transcendence"-I experienced something that humans naturally experience, there was nothing special about it other than that it was happening to me. Though i can say Ive felt the "oneness", I wouldnt call it divine or Godlike or even conscious. Its just existence, we are it. Thats all.
>>10561650
My Aztec philosophy professor HATED JC. I stopped taking his class after 2 weeks of him bashing him. Like okay ding dong he doesnt know Mexica history as much as you do. His ideas are still important and his influence on culture is significant

[Anonymous No.10562037]

>>10561872
But human action in the fall/apocalypse is not nature itself, it is its absolute corruption. In Christianity this is the difference between sin and Sin. We are all sinful, but it is not the rejection of sin, nor the ordered life preventing it, that brings us closer to God. It is the acceptance of His grace and the truth of sacrifice for our Sins which is our rite for divinity.
There are a number of interpretations possible here, but it is essentially our accepting of God's love and the spiritual struggle against Sin which grants the grace of divinity. Base nature could be minor sins, normal everyday necessity, or an aggregate of less-than-sins, but in any case they are unimportant questions in theology. Or perhaps it is better to say that a focus on base nature is just writing the problem backwards, deriving the divine out of our activity, which would be a Sin.

[Anonymous No.10562043]

>>10561284
Probably a brainlet

[Anonymous No.10562068]

>>10561686
> Is God purely rational?
Yes
>Is He only concerned with law?
No. And sad to say, you went off on a tangent with regards to this concept. He definitely isn't only concerned with making laws for the mass of humanity. And what I am about to say is central to the tenets of most divine religions.

He is literally concerned about every little thing that you do and say and think.

>>10561623
Say what you will, God has intervened and will do so again in the future.

[Anonymous No.10562091]

>>10561284
Hermes Trismegistus

[Anonymous No.10562152]

>>10562003
Op here, no joke I'm also a philosophy major, have tried a variety of psychedelics and have been around every flavour of seeker having spent the better part of a year in the "spiritual" hot spots of India. I respectfully doubt that you've had these "spiritual experiences." I too have dabbled in ayahuasca and mescaline (San Pedro), and had vanilla experiences not worth writing home about. Ayahasuca is watered down and the whole method is silly in comparison, I suggest you smoke DMT, it might just change your tune. Also, I think you're under the illusion that peak/sublime experiences can be induced safely on mediocre drugs and responsible doses; As though one can both approach and dismiss offhand the ecstatic, sublime experience hinted at in all the religions because one mistakenly thinks they've tasted it. It's a tad arrogant anon, and I'd reckon you can see this too. Spirituality isn't easy, I think the idea that it is, is a kind of whimsical boomer notion of spirituality that I'm sure you've observed in air headed "spiritual" seeker types. For what it's worth I don't think the divine is approached without either long hard work or extreme circumstance. There's no mystical path laid out by any tradition that is easy, right, why would it be? Anecdotally, I overdosed on PCP (I was under the impression it was synthetic mescaline) I had ordered off the silk road ... Anyway, the ecstatic nature of the first opart of the trip has never been approached by any other psychedelic, minus smoked n'n DMT. It was truly revelatory. I think you need to shock the body and/or mind to the point of near death to experience transcendence, and I think for you it's worth doing. Anyway, what point is being missed in deeming a vision "real"?

[Anonymous No.10562168]

[Anonymous No.10562204]

>>10562037
I don't have an intelligent response to all that but, is that Catholicism?

[Anonymous No.10562210]

>>10562091
thanks, I had my suspicions

[Anonymous No.10562285]

>>10562152
Ive actually smoked a ton of DMT. And ive done all manner of heroic doses. Half ounce of shrooms once, 20+ strong tabs on another occasion. I overdosed on 25i (1500+ mgs) which left me with severe HPPD. And I overdosed on coke and pills once and saw the "light". Im pretty aware about the "hard road to god" and all that. I think you need to believe in something spiritual to want to walk that road, and I don't. These experiences are interesting and intense but they've done nothing to convince me in the other. Even if the universe is "conscious" thats still not God. There is no perfection in the universe. We are here and that's it. Its a neutral monist universe and (i think) devoid of meaning, free will or divinity. I mean you can waste you time trying to find meaning in a monastery or through walking some "middle path"...whatever. You could also see the universe for what it is: Cold. Its scary and bullshit, but you can get rich off cryptocurrency and be a degenerate. Nothing matters dude, and thats way more fun. At the end everybody just wants a religion, including us that have read all the theology and hung out with gurus and see it all as "false". Ive chosen nihilism, youve chosen whatever path youre on...either way, im sure we all go back into nothingness.

[Anonymous No.10562337]

>>10562037
>>10561783
God is a mighty concept that Zarathustra points out, is limited by what is thinkable for each individual. As what we call world, becomes our own reflections of reason image and will, containing faith and composure with God not only is an arduous Task for Zarathustra, it is a draining and incoherent one needing little dishonesties with oneself. When stretching and exploiting the creative will past the realm of the individual, energies are wasted and consumed trying to hold up God as it approaches its unknowable conjecture. These energies take the form of petty thoughts, and small infractions denying the honest 'evil' actions that are at least true to the individuals internal and external coherence. God for the Devil and Zarathustra, dies a slow degenerative death maybe because people have way more dishonest, impotent petty thoughts under the gaze of an intimidating omnipresent, coddler of 'evil' but truer actions.

[Anonymous No.10562346]

>>10562285

[Anonymous No.10562349]

>>10562285
No. You fucked up.

See this post? This is a fuck up.

[Anonymous No.10562380]

>>10562285
>Ive actually smoked a ton of DMT
Why didn't you lead with this instead of watered down roots and cacti? Well, what was it like, you must've experienced some odd stuff that made you grapple with your "that's it" stance?

>Half ounce of shrooms once, 20+ strong tabs
Overdoses on tryptamines not named DMT are useless, especially if transcendence was the goal. http://www.buildingalienworlds.com/uploads/5/7/9/9/57999785/gallimore_building_alien_worlds_jse2013.pdf

[Anonymous No.10562523]

>>10562168
underrated

[Anonymous No.10562544]

>>10562168
You made me spit out my beer you fuck.

[Anonymous No.10562548]

>>10562380
>>10562285
fuck, you guys are making me miss tripping. Haven't done any psychs in almost three years. I got into philosophy and lit right after my last trip. Do you think tripping is different when you have more of a foundation in metaphysics?

[Anonymous No.10562565]

>>10562168
Hahaha good one, anon.

[Anonymous No.10562608]

>>10561284
perennialism is fuckin dumb

[Anonymous No.10562674]

>>10562548
Making sense of the aftermath maybe, but not during.

[Anonymous No.10562704]

>>10561284
babby's first thread?

[Anonymous No.10564041]

>>10561284
You are looking for the Vedanta school of Hinduism

[Anonymous No.10564145]

>>10562704
babby's first shitpost?

[Anonymous No.10564165]

>>10562168
XD EBIN POST FELLOW 4CHANNER

EDIT: THANKS FOR THE GOLD DEAR STRANGER

[Anonymous No.10564405]

>>10561284
sounds like some gnostic/new age heresy. i see it a lot these days, even one of my acquaintances fell for it (he was a former hardcore atheist). it seems like this "you are god" heresy is simmering slowly in the background and i'd suspect it will be presented to public at large as the only legitimate choice after all secular and religious institutions are discredited (we're already in the process of this with Trump, pizzagate etc.).

[Anonymous No.10564412]

>>10564405
You do realise this is one of the oldest religious philosophies in the world, right?

[Anonymous No.10564413]

I read the Gita this week and that is literally what it is about.

[Anonymous No.10564437]

>>10564412
its some gnosticism mixed with new age hoopla

[Anonymous No.10564495]

>>10564437
It's literally Vedanta.

[Anonymous No.10564607]

>>10562168
This is how all theological, moral, epistemelogical and ontological debates should conclude.

[Anonymous No.10564614]

>>10564405
its heresy if you are Christian or Muslim. If you are anything else (yes, even Jewish) its pretty reasonable.

[Anonymous No.10564628]

>>10564607
You could add McKenna below saying 'maybe'

[Anonymous No.10564845]

>>10562003
>My Aztec philosophy professor HATED JC. I stopped taking his class after 2 weeks of him bashing him. Like okay ding dong he doesnt know Mexica history as much as you do. His ideas are still important and his influence on culture is significant
I'm genuinely interested in what your teacher had to say
The Aztecs always get ignored and I always get suspicious of people trying to connect a culture so isolated to the rest of the world

[Anonymous No.10564973]

>>10562003
>taking something called "Aztec Philosophy"

you were asking for it desu

[Anonymous No.10565000]

The Traditionalist School, Jung, Eliade, Huxley...

[Anonymous No.10565020]

>>10564973
>Philosophically speaking the sun won't rise unless we gut this nigga

[Anonymous No.10565022]

>>10562168
https://hengstmengel.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/philosophy-to-the-glory-of-god-wittgenstein-on-god-religion-and-theology/

[Anonymous No.10565718]

>>10562168
>saw thumb
>recocked witt
>saw that there is only one, at most, two words
>hastly click
>ebyn
1000 internets for you

[Anonymous No.10566070]

>>10561284
Vedanta

[Anonymous No.10566160]

>>10561284
Theosophy

[Anonymous No.10566180]

>>10565022
>wittgenstein was catholic

wtf

[Anonymous No.10566203]

dude, when i realized the last stage was when i realized that all life is one chain, every living thing came from some other living thing, it's all the same energy just spread over different forms

[Anonymous No.10566228]

get the latest book from tich nhat hanh or however the fuck you spell it, given that he's vietnamese it avoids the tourist trap flavor of tibet buddhist productions, and after he spent a long ass time living in france he seems to want to engage with french philosophy, u can tell he's been readin derrida

[Anonymous No.10566254]

>>10562168
This board is genuinely filled with redditors these days, it's no longer disputable.

[Anonymous No.10566264]

>>10565022
>tfw religion stripped of all its cultural and linguistic baggage is still Catholic

feels good desu

[Anonymous No.10566274]

>>10561284
i mean that’s just entry level perrenialist pseudo-spiritual faggot shit you could find a billion books like that
>>10566160
no please don’t post again
>>10566254
well yeah you market yourselves as sfw and friendly to /pol/ and /leftypol/ your memes are bad and you respond to stupid people constantly instead of ignoring and reporting bad threads

[Anonymous No.10566288]

>>10566274
>well yeah you market yourselves as sfw and friendly to /pol/

there are way less nazis on /lit/ rn than there were last year that is objective fact

[Anonymous No.10566292]

>>10566288
>there are way less nazis on /lit/ rn than there were last year that is objective fact
No.

[Anonymous No.10566299]

>>10566274
>no please dont post again

Why not? Theosophy is precisely entry level perennialist pseudo-spiritual faggot shit

[Anonymous No.10566363]

>>10561344
>science, which dogmatically asserts itself to be 100% correct.
Typical brain/lit/

[Anonymous No.10566440]

>>10561284
let me give you the big enchilada
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NVsyMalJXo

[Anonymous No.10566714]

>>10566440

[Anonymous No.10566768]

>>10566440
>alex jones' linear non-linearity

[Anonymous No.10566795]

this is only half of the reality. read the emerald tablets of thoth the atlantean.

[Anonymous No.10566864]

>>10561284
>dude everyone's right lmao
the radical centrism of religion

[Anonymous No.10566870]

>nothin personnel kid

[Anonymous No.10567338]

>>10564614
>implying most famous perennialists weren't muslims

[Anonymous No.10568081]

>>10561284
>have been misconstrued for means of controlling the population
THEY'RE TURNING THE FREAKING FROGS GAY!!11!!!

[Anonymous No.10568086]

[Anonymous No.10568097]

>going to church is community, tradition and family
>I don't believe in God but I do believe in God because it is a tradition in my community
>literal herd instinct
Is this the most anti-intellectual a person can get?

[Anonymous No.10568106]

>>10568097
>muh atomic individual

[Anonymous No.10569386]

>>10568086
>The ineffable sublime can be understood by doubling down on enframing
t. stemfag brainlet

[Anonymous No.10570793]

>>10568081
>gay frog meme

[Anonymous No.10570874]

>>10565020

[Anonymous No.10570938]

>>10566228
this guy doesn't look happy, or personable. why should i listen to what he says.

[Anonymous No.10571002]

>>10561344
You should check out gnostic & sufi philosophy/ texts. They both predate islam & christianity
Info on yoldaboath accurately describes the Semitic patron god of the Abraham religion.
https://gnosticwarrior.com/yaldabaoth.html

[Anonymous No.10571139]

>>10571002
It's hard to conceive of anything worth reading on a site that some troglodyte settled on naming, "gnostic warrior"

[Anonymous No.10571143]

>>10570938
>doesn't look happy, or personable
normie plz, life isn't supposed to conform to beer commercials

[Anonymous No.10571741]

Super-galaxy brain: being a sincere adherent of a major religious tradition and holding what are orthodox views in that religion.

[Anonymous No.10573759]

>>10566795
Tier 4 should be tier 0 or 1.

[Anonymous No.10574277]

>>10565020
That was a good one.

[Anonymous No.10574397]

>>10562003
>not understanding what real means
>not understanding that intelligent design and the random processes that gave birth to us are the same thing without any intervention
>not realizing there is no we, only God which lies behind your own consciousness
>taking Aztec Philosophy
>Majoring in Philosophy
>Staying in school at all

You must really be a brainlet anon.

[Anonymous No.10574517]

Lmao at all the brainlets thinking their drug abuse gives them any sort of authority on these matters. Spend years doing inner work not a day doing shrooms you lazy degenerates

[Anonymous No.10574578]

>>10574517
>Spend years doing inner work not a day doing shrooms you lazy degenerates
A man moved near a river and, wanting to find a way to travel across the water, spent ten years forming a type of levitation that would allow him to float across it. Buddha, who was preaching in town, was confronted by this man, who said, "Look master, look what I have achieved. I can walk across the water." And Buddha said, "Yeah, but the ferry only costs a nickel..."

[Anonymous No.10574595]

>>10574578
Are you implying that inner work yields the same results as drug use? If not this is a nice quote, appreciated

[Anonymous No.10574612]

Even bigger brain: Realizing pantheism is vacuous bullshit and accepting that you will never be able to comprehend the true nature of reality because you're a fucking monkey.

[Anonymous No.10574622]

>>10574595
>Are you implying that inner work yields the same results as drug use?
Don't knock it 'til you try it anon. Inner work and drug use are not mutually exclusive. The chemicals that make up your entire body are also drugs. Also, "inner work" is pretty difficult to define.

[Sange !lUgBf04Eys No.10574641]

>>10561284
Bitch, I figured that shit out when I was like 13.

[Sange !lUgBf04Eys No.10574647]

>>10561344
>You see, I still believe in an actual deity of God.
then you're stupid.

[Anonymous No.10574648]

>>10562168
new age pomo theology vs one weird grade school teacher

[Anonymous No.10574649]

>A good friend of mine regularly interacted with the Divine when he consumed DMT. He said that he regularly received transcendent messages from higher beings while under the influence, but could not recollect them later. Finally, with intense effort he had been able to write one of these messages down: "the smell of petrol permeates throughout"

[Anonymous No.10574678]

>>10574622
I know, I've done psychedelics maybe 30 times or so, and have made much more progress since I stopped. So yes you can do both, but the drugs often end up being a toy, a distraction and an hindrance. I have observed this on myself as well as on many friends.

It should also be noted that these drugs are far from healthy, especially on the more subtle dimensions of the body, leaving many users as a shadow of what they could be
And inner work is hard to define it is true, yet you know very well what I mean by those words

[Anonymous No.10574816]

>>10574678
It can also be noted that psychedelic analogues of endogenous chemicals are in no way toxic or "far from healthy." You're using the wrong psychedelics

[Anonymous No.10574883]

>>10574647
I'm glad people like you use tripcodes, allows me to filter your shortsightedness easily.

[Anonymous No.10574884]

>>10574647
I'm glad people like you use tripcodes, it allows me to filter your shortsightedness easily.

[Anonymous No.10575048]

>>105612849
I actually believe something very close to that. God, Allah, Om, Bhagavan... These are all just names attached to the idea of reality itself as a whole. All of existence, in its totality. People who recognize truth and communicated it to others (prophets) used a personified God as a metaphorical tool to help people wrap their heads around it, but then people started believing God was literally a guy, then people that misinterpreted it, or people that merely recognized it as a manipulation tool (false prophets, so to speak) started attaching other ideas and rules to the actual truth, and bastardized it into what religion is today.

People still believe in a lot of the same stuff, but just with different language that doesn't carry the same connotational baggage. Instead of God, reality. Instead of sin and piety, ethics, right, and wrong. Instead of the soul, consciousness.

Not that it's one to one, we're certainly learned things, but I think the fact that all of the most important truths that religions offer are still alive and well, just with different language... I think it would healthy for religious people who feel their spirituality itself is under attack (which is definitely is in some cases) to see that they can still believe in this thing as long as they recognize the human flaws that have infiltrated it and revise their interpretations. And I think it'd be nice for scientific dogmatists to recognize that there are elements of reality that aren't going to be explained away with particle physics, and reality itself is, at the fundamental level, inexplicable and infinite. I think.