/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10519270]

Why does /lit/ defend communism?

[Anonymous No.10519307]

because it's never been tried

[Anonymous No.10519329]

>>10519270
Because it's full of Americans aka retards

[Anonymous No.10519336]

>>10519270
has any human being ever read this huge ass book and actually understood it the way Karl Marx wanted it to be understood?
The communist manifesto is a mere pamphlet yet "communists" like it.

[Anonymous No.10519339]

>>10519270

I don't, communism is stupid. Capitalism is just also stupid.

[Anonymous No.10519376]

>>10519339
then what do you propose?

[Anonymous No.10519465]

>>10519376
nukes. a lot of them.

[Anonymous No.10519474]

>>10519270
Marxism is so 2015, you're a bit late

[Anonymous No.10519493]

>>10519270
Because it’s an ideal that parasites latch onto.

[Anonymous No.10519501]

>>10519270
I'm a Marxist, but I understand that communism as a real socio-economic-political institution is impossible, unless something radically changes about human society, so I vote Republican.

[Anonymous No.10519502]

>>10519307
Lying

[Anonymous No.10519504]

>>10519501
you're retarded

[Anonymous No.10519512]

>>10519504
In what manner?

[Anonymous No.10519515]

>>10519339
We can conclude that materialism on its own is rather useless. Capitalism and communism are hardly opposites, on the contrary they are two conflicting types of egalitarian materialism.

[Anonymous No.10519519]

>>10519465

[Anonymous No.10519522]

>>10519465
this, but unironically...

[Anonymous No.10519540]

>>10519512
>I believe in a liberal ideology
>I vote for a party that is at best conservative and at worst so corrupted by capitalism that it does nothing but suppress mass education so they can continue to maintain proles

In that manner.

[Anonymous No.10519866]

Why does a board full of mature intellectuals defend the aboliton of the horrid and vapid materialism that is capitalism? Simple, because cucktalism has turned labor into a necessity when it really shouldn't be. It's not natural that this state of unfairness must persist and the only solution to this is communism. If capitalism was abolished maybe then you would not have to work your ass off to some greedy pig in a suit and could instead pursue your own intellectual interests, which is what this board stands for. Maybe then you wouldn't need to buy in this culture of materialism, where intellectuals like me are often are often ostracized for being such skeptics. Maybe then we could for one set aside our differences this whole unnecessary meritocracy has created and instead work together for a better future to all.

[Anonymous No.10519878]

>>10519866
Communism is no less vapid materialism, mister mature intellectual. If only there was some sort of third option...

[Anonymous No.10519894]

>>10519270
Why wouldn't /lit/ defend communism?

[Anonymous No.10519896]

>>10519270

There are many materialists who properly criticize capitalism, for it warrants criticism, plenty of it, even from its supposed defenders, yet people use communism as a scapegoat instead. And this can be done without necessarily advocating for communism. Perhaps you are conflating criticism of Capital with manifesting a will to establish communism. The two go hand in hand with Marx but not at all with most other authors, including the new wave of economists such as Piketty.

With that said, communism is easy to defend isn't it? You can ad-hoc implant literally any solution to any problem because Marx is a bastard child of Hegelian synthesis and we all know (if you don't read some Popper) how pseudo-scientific models of history have turned out up to this point.

[Anonymous No.10519990]

[Anonymous No.10520018]

>>10519540
Marxism isn't liberal, you fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.10520037]

>>10519866
It's not natural for a human being to have to work for food, shelter, and safety?

Please cite your source on that for me.

[Anonymous No.10520189]

Because people who tend towards literature and other exercises of the mind tend to assign merit to ideas without the criterion that the idea work.

[Anonymous No.10520211]

Socialism is okay.

Communism is inherently atheistic, thus flawed.

/thread

[Anonymous No.10520215]

>>10519866
>>10519866
>intellectuals like me
this has to be bait.
The saying "work will set you free" isn't some capitalist propaganda, a man without a purpose ceases to be a man.

[Anonymous No.10520216]

>>10520211
>/threading your own post

[Anonymous No.10520220]

>>10520216
Hey, thread's over. No need to reply anymore. Get outta here

[Anonymous No.10520226]

>>10520220
wtf

[Anonymous No.10520242]

>>10520215
>work will set you free
Doesn't Marx say something similar? "Work gives dignity to man" iirc

[Anonymous No.10520268]

>>10519866
>I’m 14 the post

[Anonymous No.10520274]

>>10519270
it's a board of brainlets and pseuds; that is why

[Anonymous No.10520284]

>>10519866
You've changed my mind! Incredible! I now completely lay down all that I believe in because of a 4chan post! Absolutely amazing. Wow.

This is truly incredible. Hold on, I'm on the phone with the authorities. Yeah. I'm telling them I've actually changed my mind because of you! OH MY GOD. THEY ARE SENDING ONE MILLION DOLLARS TO YOUR HOUSE BECAUSE YOU'VE DONE IT.

YOU'VE CHANGED SOMEONES MIND ON 4CHAN USING THE POWER OF RHETORIC. I KNEW YOU COULD DO IT. ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. NO SARCASM AT ALL.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SARCASM AT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[Anonymous No.10520303]

>>10519270

Marx postulated what he believed would be the natural end result of humanity which was ultimately a positive one, Uutopian even.

People approved of this end result and tried to rush it along.

The ruling global elite didn't like this end result, a world where they were not in control, and fought every way they could - through bombs and lies - to prevent it from happening.

A combination of rushing too fast and from constant attacks, this end result - communsim - was crushed.

Other people

[Anonymous No.10520360]

>>10519990
Antifa is mainly filled with Anarkiddies

[Anonymous No.10520398]

>>10520211
t. Christfag

[Anonymous No.10520404]

>>10519336
Most part of the Karl Marx's work is about economic analysis of the capitalism structure, trying to explain how it is and works. It's not even about communism or critics to capitalism.

Of course his work is very important and his observations very interesting. He just made a mistake when started to struggle against his study object, the capitalism, supporting revolutionary ideas and acts. The Communist Manifesto was what burned his image forever in history.

But this part (fight againts capitalism) is of course the smallest part of his work. Perhaps if he had not begun to fight explicitly against capitalism and had finished his career only with his works of analysis of capitalism, like "Das Kapital", he was even accepted by liberals and conservatives as a political scientist who helped to understand the system in which we live.

No, I'm not communist. I'm assumed as a conservative.

[Anonymous No.10520412]

>>10519336
Plenty have understood it perfectly well and Marx himself names a few political economists who 'got it' in the preface to the fourth edition. People usually misunderstand it because they start off with some major misconceptions on the nature of Marx' project. It's not a work from which to draw economic theory or base an academic field on(like sociology or some such) or whatever else people got in their heads about Marx. Marx' only intention with the book was to lay bare the inhuman social relations that capitalism creates and show how humanity can set themselves free from this self-forged cage we find ourselves locked in.

[Anonymous No.10520471]

>>>10519474
>>nukes. a lot of them.
> Muh spooks

[Anonymous No.10520487]

>>10519376

All of my ideas concern how to manage things hundreds of years from now.

[Anonymous No.10520502]

>>10519515

Capitalism is only egalitarian in the vulgar sense that an idiot's dollar is worth as much as an intelligent person's, or a scoundrel's dollar is worth as much as a prophets. It's actually worse than egalitarian in the sense that there are more idiots and scoundrels in the world. Capitalism is subject to Gresham's law but in terms of character; the bad drives out the good.

[Anonymous No.10520538]

>>10519270
Because Marx was straightforwardly correct about most of what he claimed.

[Anonymous No.10520565]

>>10519540
Marxists hate the libs, you giant dork.

[Anonymous No.10520756]

>>10519307
>because it's never been tried
Even better, it has not failed

[Anonymous No.10520775]

>>10520242
>>Doesn't Marx say something similar? "Work gives dignity to man" iirc

ascetic ideology
>t.horkheimer

[Anonymous No.10520791]

don't criticize the anime

if you haven't read the manga

if you've actually read the manifesto it would all be clear

[Anonymous No.10521766]

>>10519896
>(if you don't read some Popper)
you were doing so well until this part...

[Anonymous No.10521773]

>>10520303
if your system can't protect itself against "constant attacks" without starting murdering your own population you might as well give up now

[Anonymous No.10521777]

>>10520360
>implying half those retards have a consistent ideology
not trying to imply that anarchism is a consistent ideology, but at least it pretends to be

[Anonymous No.10521787]

>>10520037
>It's not natural for a human being to have to work for food, shelter, and safety?
There is a precedence which was broken when we fucking industrialized production, you chud. Also, the idea of "natural" human behavior, especially in reference to economics, is nonsense.

[Anonymous No.10521795]

>>10520215
>The saying "work will set you free" isn't some capitalist propaganda
First off, it is completely an ideological maxim. Second: communism is a mode of production, not an abolition of labor. People will always work; I would simply prefer access to the fruits of that work. Thanks anyway for the aphorsim, Mike Rowe.

[Anonymous No.10521909]

The same reason anyone defends communism: they don't understand economics.

Anyone who is still a gommunist after reading pic related is either severely mentally retarded or perhaps a jew or a nihilist that wants to further human suffering.

[Anonymous No.10521922]

pseudo-intellectuals who think their perfect, infalibale brand of communism has never been tried

[Anonymous No.10521931]

>>10519515
It's easy to criticize materialism when you define it as "everything that makes me feel bad"

[Anonymous No.10522003]

>>10521931
Which are you saying is not materialism? Capitalism or communism?
The point is that materialism is a perfectly legit angle to criticize social reality but you cannot build a functioning society around it, you need strong values and spiritual critique to give it some sort of direction.

[Anonymous No.10522011]

>>10520018
>>10520565
He said *a* liberal ideology, you dumb cunts. And it is: progressivism, egalitarianism, natural rights, a focus on people, etc.

[Anonymous No.10522016]

>>10522003
>you need strong values and spiritual critique to give it some sort of direction.
Explain why you can't get them from materialism, I don't see why not.

[Anonymous No.10522017]

>>10519270
Capitalism is the only way

[Anonymous No.10522019]

>>10521773
People didn't give up with the First French Republic and Republicanism is everywhere now

[Anonymous No.10522023]

"Wahhh wahhh FUCKING materialism :(" you guys are just broke, get some money then you'll see how good the capital life is

[Anonymous No.10522030]

>>10522023
I'm a day trader and I make pretty good money. Doesn't mean that capitalism doesn't have staggering issues, and it doesn't obfuscate the fact I genuinely pity the poor, simply because any moron can do what I do (I've trained morons to do it too) but they can't, they require disposable income to even get a start, and relatively large amounts of capital to make any sort of living.

>guys our system is good because lambos

[Anonymous No.10522115]

>>10520404
Not sure if this is bait, but all of Marx works was advocating communism

[Anonymous No.10522120]

>>10521909
Reading Sowell won't help you understand economics, bud.

[Anonymous No.10522139]

>>10522120
Not him, but Sowell is a quite accomplished economics ph.d and was mentored by Friedman. If you're going to dismiss him, do it less flippantly.

[Anonymous No.10522146]

>>10522030
>I'm a day trader and I make pretty good money.
>any moron can do what I do
>they require disposable income to even get a start

I have $30k sat in a savings account. Is that enough to do anything substantial to supplement my income, or are you talking more $300k to see anything worthwhile?

[Anonymous No.10522172]

>>10522146
Don't get into day trading unless you want it to become a full time job. Invest for the long term instead.

[Anonymous No.10522327]

>>10522011
Marxism is not a liberal philosophy. It supports some ideologies liberal politics espouses, in the same way humans have feet but are not cows.

[Anonymous No.10522369]

>>10519990
>when you say you are a communist
>antifa
Antifa aren't really commies though, I haven't heard any redistribution plans from them, just molotofs and fighting with cops

[Anonymous No.10522545]

>>10522115
You're wrong. Try reading the complete Marx's work. What >>10520404 is saying is true.

[Anonymous No.10522563]

>>10519270
Because they appreciate the critiques of Marx and think it has value outside of the ways it has been used so far.

[Anonymous No.10522587]

>>10522369
>>10519990
>>10520360
Pretty sure they're anti-fascist, not communist. Hence the name.

[Anonymous No.10522607]

>>10522011
none of the things you cited are part of marxism

[Anonymous No.10522700]

>>10522607
Not even egalitarianism?

[Anonymous No.10522720]

>>10519270
main criticism of marx is that his ideas are impossible but that did not stop plato so why not marx? + technology makes his ideas possible and average laborer has been elevated. with transit time most of us still work 10+ hours a day

[Anonymous No.10522727]

>>10520487
i know that feel too well

[Anonymous No.10522731]

>>10519270

>Communism is good because it works on a local human scale(think town)
>Therefore it works on inhuman scale
>Btw, check out these largely homogeneous countries were people are broadly on the same page

[Anonymous No.10523025]

>>10522700
not in the sense you use the word, commies do believe in a meritocracy, their criticism of capitalism is that it isn't one

[Anonymous No.10523107]

>>10523025
I'm not the one who said it's a liberal ideology. Still, I fail to see the difference, as I'm quite clueless when it comes to marxism.

[Anonymous No.10523253]

>>10522587
>Pretty sure they're anti-fascist
lolololololololololololololololol

[Anonymous No.10524285]

>>10523253
This is very good bait. I'm still mad tho.

[Anonymous No.10524290]

>>10519270
court is in session

[Anonymous No.10524305]

>>10523253
Churchill was a fucking liar

[Anonymous No.10524337]

>>10519270
Marx is interesting. His critiques of capitalism, especially around alienation and the destruction of culture resonate with me. But a lot of his other ideas tend to be either naive or outright wrong. For example, no historian still views history from a purely materialistic point of view as Marx did, nor does anyone who's studied economics consider Marxist economics to be worthwhile except for studying purely for interest.
His critiques are why a lot of people like him and will blindly follow anything else he writes. At least that's the only explanation I can come up with.

[Anonymous No.10524343]

Even Smith recognized that capitalism would concentrate wealth in a parasitic ownership class. The only difference between his solution and Marx's is that Smith would still have workers submit to capital.

[Macbeth No.10524567]

Woah, didn't realize this thread would become a /pol/ thread.

Instead of so easily labeling yourself to a cause or political group which may hold opposing beliefs to your own (unless you're an actual sheep), why don't you at least try to think independently?

Nah who am I kidding, that's crazy, right?

[Anonymous No.10524656]

>>10522587
You're half right. The whole 'anti-fascist' shtick is a a public front to make themselves look like freedom fighters, but their true ideology is made clear on their flag. Red symbolizes Communism while black symbolizes Anarchy. Anybody who hangs around long enough with an Antifascist will know they are a bunch of Anarcho-Communists.

[Anonymous No.10525008]

>>10519270
Communism is interesting as a historical error, nothing more.

[Anonymous No.10525015]

>>10519270
Literary types love Communism for some reason. I've never really understood why.

[Anonymous No.10525147]

Because abolishing the mediation of commodities through a market, and producing goods for use according to a social plan is the obvious choice if you've spent any time on economic theory. Defenders of market ideology are uniformly terrible, and their ideas persist only with the purposeful ignorance of Marx's critique, which singlehandedly destroyed economics as we understand it. Today, economics is a field that operates on a model of an economy that doesn't actually exist in reality, based on a model of human rationality which also doesn't exist in reality. It manages to avoid criticism simply by disregarding any social context of contemporary capitalism, and anything that actually takes place in the global market. Its concept of capitalism is a platonic form, not a specific mode of production.

According to a standard economist, there are scarce goods and there is supply and demand, and the "science" of economics is just the study of how these goods are best allocated to meet demands through the market. Just with these basic concepts, we have already deeply fallen into ideology and abandoned any historically and socially grounded reality of how production actually takes place. The whole project of Marx is to understand this and pull the rug from the feet of classical economics, just by following its concepts to their logical conclusion. Unfortunately there is no easy path to this with without reading the whole argument.

[Anonymous No.10525165]

>>10524567
but then i just get called a centrist and get bullied

[Anonymous No.10526396]

>>10525147
This is an incredibly ill informed post.

[Anonymous No.10526797]

>>10525147
>Its concept of capitalism is a platonic form, not a specific mode of production
More specifically, how does it contrast with the current state of affairs?

[Anonymous No.10526818]

>>10525147
>Because abolishing the mediation of commodities through a market, and producing goods for use according to a social plan is the obvious choice if you've spent any time on economic theory
I love how marxists keep repeating this despite the fact that it's literally the opposite, that is, the most you've studied economics, the less likely you are to be a marxist. It's not a coincidence that marxists are far more likely to be found in sociology and liberal arts than in economics.

[Anonymous No.10526903]

The stupidity here takes me back.

>no alternative between communism and capitalism

Capitalism isn't a wholistic political philosophy in the way that communism or fascism would be.

Capitalism is an economic philosophy that can take many forms - you have the mixed markets and neoliberalism of Hayek and Friedman, that influenced Reagan, Thatcher, and Pinochet, you have the arguably purer form of capitalism and classical liberalism as espoused by Von Mises and Rothbard, often adopted by AnCaps and Libertarians. But it doesn't answer questions about how society should be structured, how the state should function, what the duty of citizens are, etc.

>communism is liberal

In case you degenerates didn't realize, capitalism is a liberal philosophy. Kikepedia defines liberalism as, "apolitical philosophyorworldviewfounded on ideas oflibertyandequality.Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas and programmes SUCH ASfreedom of speech,freedom of the press,freedom of religion,free markets,civil rights,democraticsocieties,seculargovernments,gender equalityandinternational cooperation."

The US Constitution is a liberal document; it glorifies individualism over the collective, and emphasizes personal Iiberties at the expense of the State and society.

The majority of the GOP espouses conservative liberalism - that is, socially conservative and economically liberal.

Communism is anything but liberal - communism does not emphasize individuality nor personal freedoms. Communism emphasizes the common ownership of the means of production, the absence of social classes, money, and the state. (Ironically, the dictatorship of the proletariat often results in an oppressive dictatorship propping up a capitalistic class of its own.)

>so, anon, what is the alternative to capitalism or communism?

Fascism decries both.

I'm an ardent nationalist; I believe that it is right and normal to be proud of ones homeland and people, and to be loyal to it. I believe that capitalism and communism both lead to social degeneracy. I believe that as loyal citizens of our states, we have an obligation to provide for our brothers and sisters who are in need - balanced welfare. I also believe in advancement within society (i.e. social stratification) based on merit, not on where or who you were born to. Ultimately, the economic model that a state follows is unimportant to me, as long as it provides for its citizens, encourages them in self-improvement and constantly striving to improve their country and race, and, above all, loyalty to a social order.

>http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm

[Anonymous No.10526916]

>>10525147
Most economists read Marx, the fuck are you talking about

[Anonymous No.10527005]

>>10519540
>Marxism
>liberal ideology

Haha Jesus, what a fucking mong.

[Anonymous No.10527019]

>>10520211
>Socialism is okay.
Meanwhile in Venezuela...

[Anonymous No.10527025]

>>10522139
Not once has anyone on /lit/ produced any actual criticism towards Sowell, other than the usual 'hurr durr nigger' or 'hurr durr capitalist shill'.

[Anonymous No.10527030]

>>10526818
>he actually thinks economics is any more rigorous than sociology
It's cute when your little social science pretends it's up there with the big boys like physics.

[Anonymous No.10527037]

>>10527019
Venezuela is a failed welfare state, and the majority of the economy is private. Even for Marxist-Leninist standards, calling this socialism is a meme.

[Anonymous No.10527054]

>>10527037
There's not a single country that is 100% socialist or 100% capitalist. The dominant force in Venezuela is socialism, what with all the price-controls and shit.

And it's funny how Venezuela was a "socialist paradise" before Maduro started shooting people according to every leftist on planet earth. Then when Maduro started being Maduro, it's all "No no, Venezuela is a capitalist country, that's why it sucks so bad!".

You people are honestly pathetic, and there is no point arguing anything with a bunch of intellectually dishonest retards.

[Anonymous No.10527066]

>>10525015
It's because they feel they are superior to businessmen in taste, intelligence and morals but aren't rewarded as much. It's straight-up jealousy.

[Anonymous No.10527068]

>>10525147
>producing goods for use according to a social plan is the obvious choice if you've spent any time on economic theory.

This has to be bait.
Why do you think that famines are so common in communist countries despite the efforts of their central planning systems?
Free market capitalism is the most efficient economic system to date.
There's just no way to "plan" production as efficiently as the market can do by itself through pricing, self-management and human tendency to work harder for their own benefit.

[Anonymous No.10527078]

>>10527054
I don't give a shit about the leftists you may or may not have encountered. The economic system is determined by the actual economic relations in a country, not the ruling ideology. For example, the USSR was state capitalist in its early days, before it transitioned to socialism under Stalin, where the majority of the economy was divided between collective farm property and publicly owned state property producing according to a plan. The role of the market was extremely limited until it was reversed under Kruschev and other revisionists. Today, only Cuba really can claim to be socialist proper.

According to your retarded view, China would be a socialist country even though it's not even close to USSR during the New Economic Policy, just because it has a Communist Party. Marxists look at the role of the market and the amount of socialized property to determine whether socialism exists or not, this is basic shit.

[Anonymous No.10527107]

>>10527068
This. It's really scary that people are still spouting nonsense like the one line you quoted.

>>10527078
I don't care what some retarded Marxists thinks is socialist or not, seeing as how you mongs are always spouting off about nothing being socialism or communism.

The facts are very simple: the more a country deviates from the ideal of free markets and free trade, the worse of it is. The countries that have embraced the principles of free trade and free markets have been extremely successfull.

Singapore went from being a floating, backwards, empty rock to one of the wealthiest countries in the world in less than 50 years, simply because they deregulated basically everything.

Hong Kong was doing so well that China decided to absorb Hong Kong. Instead, what happened was that Hong Kong absorbed China...

Every socialist always keeps talking about how Sweden is such a great socialist success story, not understanding that the greatest period of growth Sweden had was between 1850-1950, thanks to capitalism and industialization, and that as soon as they started implementing more socialist policies in the mid 50's and early 60's, the growth trend started to change direction and Sweden fell, in a short time, from being the 4th richest country on earth to 11th. When the social democrats went full bananas between 1970-1990 (a period of absolute deterioration, culminating in the housing crash in the early 90's), leading social democrats and their financial minister called their previous system "absurd" and "perverse". These are the policies the American left wants you to adopt.

Like I said, you're all nothing but a bunch of pathetic losers, whining about how everything is so unfair when you've been lucky enough to be born into the greatest country on the planet.

Go starve yourself, you useless mong.

[Anonymous No.10527126]

>>10527078
Isn't it funny that Lenin was much more capitalistic than Stalin, yet there are still packs of Leninists claiming the opposite, blatantly lying.

[Anonymous No.10527127]

>>10527107
Nice assumptions about my country of origin, you retard. I'm not an American and I live in a previously socialist country fucked over by US imperialist interests, so you'll excuse me if I disagree with your drivel about reformist capitalism totally being socialistic. Read more history, yours is obviously provided by neoliberal ideologues.

[Anonymous No.10527130]

>>10519307
Well, it has, it's just never been implemented through democratic elections in a first world country. If e.g. France or the US voted for commies in the next election, and they didn't remove elections, it could probably work even though it wouldn't be a utopia. There will however probably never be enough support in succesful countries for that to happen.

[Anonymous No.10527132]

>>10527127
>neoliberal
Yeah, try again, mong.

[Anonymous No.10527136]

>>10527127
>reformist capitalism
It is reformist socialism that is the cause of all the problems.

[Anonymous No.10527141]

>>10520303
except marx endorsed contemporary attempts at a dictatorship of the proletariat, like the paris commune

[Anonymous No.10527177]

>>10527130
"Socialism has never been tried" is a stupid fallacy spouted by pseudo-leftists who are unwilling to engage with the real world and the serious problems involved in socialist transition and economic planning.

If you want to cure yourself of this affliction, start with these:
1. Marx - Critique of the Gotha Programme
2. Stalin - Economic Problems of Socialism in the USSR
3. Towards A New Socialism, Cockshott & Cottrell

Also, Socialist planning by Ellman is a decent overview if one takes into account that he's ultimately a liberal.

[Anonymous No.10527189]

>>10527054
>. The dominant force in Venezuela is socialism,
>70% of the economy is private
K

[Anonymous No.10527205]

>>10527189
>fixed prices for everything
>massive overspending on part of the government
>confiscation and neglect of farmlands

Yeah, sounds like socialism alright.

Funny how every socialist in the entire world have only voted for capitalists, huh.

[Anonymous No.10527209]

>>10527068
>famines are so common in communist countries
Because it's typically poor and economically insecure countries that have revolutions or elect communist leaders, and they inevitably get embargoed to hell.
I'd be interested in seeing a source on the claim that Poor communist countries have more famines than poor capitalist ones.

[Anonymous No.10527218]

>>10527209
Communist/socialist countries don't usually release any valuable information (see Venezuela, for example) about how things are going. Because everything is so shit.

[Anonymous No.10527232]

>>10527030
>both a strawman AND poor reading comprehnsio
typical marxist.

[Anonymous No.10527240]

>>10527205
Ah yes, the old "Socialism is when the government does stuff, and the more stuff it does the more socialist it is"
Btw if your only criteria are price controls on anything, running a deficit(lol), and eminent domain then I regret to inform you that the United States is communist apparently.
You're out of your depth

[Anonymous No.10527248]

>>10527218
>Communist/socialist countries don't usually release any valuable information
According to the CIA and basically nobody else. The iron curtain has been gone for a long time now

[Anonymous No.10527250]

>>10527240
>when everything is going fine in a non-socialist country that calls itself socialist
>YEAH FUCKIN BASTE SHOW THOSE CAPITALISTS HOW IT'S DONE
>when everything goes to shit
>...I don't even care about it lmao not even socialist
You guys are more disgusting than these fucking lolbertardians are ignorant.

[Anonymous No.10527252]

>>10527240
USA is a mixed economy like every other economy out there, and about half of your economy is socialized.

[Anonymous No.10527255]

>>10527232
Infographics aside, economics IS a pseudoscience, and Smith is hardly the minarchist modern reactionaries claim him to be

[Anonymous No.10527259]

>>10527255
>Infographics aside, economics IS a pseudoscience
I wonder how I know you've never studied economics.
Also, how can you guys not realize how much you sound like flat earthers?

[Anonymous No.10527283]

>>10527250
I never said things are fine in Venezuela, the falling oil prices have devastated their economy since it failed to diversify enough under Chavez, and they have almost comical levels of corruption.
Their economy is not entirely socialist, but they are governed by socialist leaders who are (at least nominally) pursuing that goal.
What I am saying is, political economics is not alchemy, Venezuela is poor and shitty as a result of a number of modern day as well as historical conditions which existed before Chavez and continue to exist today. Global economics is a question of resources, trade and production, it is not a system of good boy points where the invisible hand gives you an iPad once you're capitalist enough.

[Anonymous No.10527290]

>>10527259
I wonder how I know you've only ever understood economics at the 100 level. Because if you think it's a solved, empirical field then you're fucking illiterate

[Anonymous No.10527322]

>>10527283

Venezuela has been under economic crisis since 2013, while the oil crash happened in September 2014. Mass protests against shortages and rampage inflation were already happening in January 2014. There are dozens of other countries whose economies heavily depend on oil that are doing very much fine in comparison. Chavez economic policies and land reforms were a utter failure, they disregarded any responsible fiscal policy, had two tight presidential elections (2012 and 2013) where the government had to spend lavishly to guarantee victory of the ruling party, so there you have it, Venezuela is now worse than most of Africa.

[Anonymous No.10527422]

it just werks

[Anonymous No.10527612]

>>10519307
Hilarious mate.

[Anonymous No.10527613]

>>10519866
>emo 14 year old sitting in detention at his private High School
>In trouble for arguing with the history teacher, saying that Stalin wasn't responsibile for the deaths of millions, but that was Capitalistic propaganda.
>Meanwhile, our socialist hero sits on his $1000 iPhone X his upper-class parents bought him for Christmas, watching hentai and browsing his weeaboo imageboard.

[Anonymous No.10527634]

>lolbertarians
>communists
>ancaps
Why is opening an economics textbook so hard for you guys? Is it the math?

[Anonymous No.10527689]

>>10527634
Pray tell, what ideology do you adhere to?

Rarely if ever do you actually see ancaps, and most people who are termed 'lolbertarians' are classical liberals who believe in a small state with limited power and clearly defined obligations (I would like to use a more accurate word than obligations, but the word escapes me right now).

Oh, and there really isn't a lot of maths involved if you're just taking intro-courses. Mostly just graphs and shit.

[Anonymous No.10527694]

>>10527209
Please educate yourself on some history and kill yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

[Anonymous No.10527797]

>>10527634
lolbertarians follow the precepts of highly acclaimed economists like Friedman and Sowell though.

[Anonymous No.10527833]

>>10527694
how can Mao be real if our eyes aren't real?