/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10493586]

Does meaning have any inherence or does meaning only exist because we've determined it as such. And if the latter, then what's the point of it all? What's the point of waking up, working, falling in/out of love, the pain, the joy, the striving to continue on? Why place so much value on life and guilt others to continue living or having a drive if there is no meaning in existence?

[Anonymous No.10493599]

meaning is shannon entropy

[Anonymous No.10493625]

>>10493599
I see you're woke on being stupid.

[Anonymous No.10493800]

>>10493586
>>10493586
>Being an atheist
I seriously hope you don't do this. atheism is a mental disorder

[Anonymous No.10493804]

>>10493800
>people are born Christians

[Anonymous No.10493819]

>>10493804
>Not being able to recognize the self-evident nature of the one true God at birth
I feel sorry for you

[Anonymous No.10493836]

>>10493586
I'm sure that there was a time in your life where you were happy that not only did you not know the meaning of life but you hadn't even know of the existence of the question. Now knowledge of the question has you bent out of shape because for some reason you think there needs to be an answer.

Well there can't be one. The idea of meaning is an abstraction and not derived from observation of nature. As a concept it is axiomatically only a feature that we ascribe. If humans give meaning to things, are the only things known to us who acribe meaning to things, and humans are a prerquisite of meaning then what surprise is it that there's no meaning beyond what we ascribe? It's like asking what the universal feeling of life is. There's gonna be a lot of answers depending on who you ask and none of them are right or wrong.

[Anonymous No.10493837]

>>10493586
Existentialists believed that meaning is derived from an individual's experience and not because life has inherent meaning. So take it as you will.

We continue on because many believe that to live life is better than to have no life. There are also those who are afraid of death, preventing them from committing suicide.


>>Why place so much value on life and guilt others to continue living or having a drive if there is no meaning in existence?
Have you considered that it's because most people assume that there is meaning in existence?

Have you considered that nihilism isn't the only possible worldview? In fact, that it's probably the most toxic one?

[Anonymous No.10493848]

>>10493837
Lmao how is nihilism the most toxic worldview? That's such a bullshit subjective statement.

[Anonymous No.10493854]

>>10493819
>believing in magic

[Anonymous No.10493859]

>>10493625
fuck you you little piece of shit

[Anonymous No.10493862]

>>10493586
>>10493837
It's called evolution. Simply existing is a meaning in itself. Say you have a billion agents and each agent does a billion different things and have a billion different goals that they each pursue. Time and the random destruction of the universe will eliminate 99% of them. The agents that are left are the ones that have actions that are linked to reproduction. Time simply does not give a fuck. Time will eliminate so that what's left is meaning.

[Anonymous No.10493871]

>>10493848
Nietzsche would agree with that anon

[Anonymous No.10493881]

>>10493836
There was, and in those days I would say I was blissfully ignorant. Now I'm still ignorant, but aware of my own ignorance.

>>10493837
>Have you considered that it's because most people assume that there is meaning in existence?
That I have, but whenever someone is pressed about that, they fall on tautologies due to their own innate fears. And while nihilism isn't the only world view, it's one of the few that doesn't ground itself on what is clearly shaky foundations or requires some baseless axiom.

[Anonymous No.10493900]

>>10493848
To believe in nothing is to have no foundational ground to live life by. Nothing can be universally applied, most importantly a moral code. Those who live with no moral compass are bound to be ostracized by friends, family, and society, ending in misery and loneliness. It's either that, or they gain followers in their philosophy and companionship in misery is better than being alone I suppose.

They lack meaning and purpose and have no reason to contribute to society. Why bother? There isn't a point anyway. Stay miserable long enough and man, without purpose, will turn to suicide or worse take other lives on their way out.

[Anonymous No.10493913]

>>10493881
Nihilism doesn't ground it self on shaky foundations because it has no foundations, only stating that there is no foundation upon everything is built. Is that in itself not a baseless axiom?

Now if the entire universe was entirely chaotic, I would consider it but it isn't. For there is pattern and repetition seen in observation. It is just as baseless to say that there is no meaning in them as it is to say that there is.

[Anonymous No.10493941]

>>10493586
If you're posting Nietzsche, doesn't that mean you've read him? And if you've read him, why are you still asking these questions? He answers all of them. The quickest way to find those answers again are compiled in Will to Power.

[Anonymous No.10493951]

See the cat? See the cradle?

[Anonymous No.10493961]

>>10493900
>>10493586
>>>10493848
>To believe in nothing is to have no foundational ground to live life by. Nothing can be universally applied...

What? Since when is nihilism at odds with the scientific concept of uniformitarianism? Also implying you need a made up 'foundation' to live by that wouldn't simply form from socialization and our various biological impetuses.
>... most importantly a moral code.

Recognizing that there aren't any universal moral truths does not exclude you from developing your own.

>Those who live with no moral compass are bound to be ostracized by friends, family, and society, ending in misery and loneliness.

5 of the 7 people I know best are nihilists and are well adjusted, involved, social, and successful. Not sure why you conflate nihilism with antisocial behavior but lol. Non 4chan people don't behave like angry autists irl.

>They lack meaning and purpose and have no reason to contribute to society. Why bother? There isn't a point anyway. Stay miserable long enough and man, without purpose, will turn to suicide or worse take other lives on their way out.

Again, being well adjusted and nihilistic is easy. Especially if you didn't 'find' nihilism because you were already angry, depressed, and antisocial.

[Anonymous No.10493964]

>>10493961
doesnt stop you from developing your own morals that is, one cannot develop their oen universal moral truth

[Anonymous No.10493969]

>>10493599
I'm to stupid to understand this what you just said, even with a dictionary.

[Anonymous No.10493977]

The question is trivial because we all know the answer. You woke up today to survive. The yearn to continue to live, breathe, eat and shit are programmed so deeply into your soul that to shake them and self-destruct your quality of life is what we call "mental illness."

[Anonymous No.10493980]

>>10493881
Why is it that this contrived question that is axiomatically unanswerable bother you more than any other similiar question that you or I could drum up?

[Anonymous No.10493990]

>>10493854
Define magic.

[Anonymous No.10493993]

>>10493990
god is santa claus for adults

[Anonymous No.10493995]

>>10493961
People's beliefs are best communicated in their action, so your "well-adjusted" nihilist pals are either not actually nihilists (probable) or they're psychopathic and irrational clowns acting out a play at odds with nihilism (not probable or likely)

[Anonymous No.10494024]

>>10493995
>If someone doesn't behave in a way I say they should if they hold a certain belief then they're lying or psychopaths because I don't like that belief.

What a thoughtful rebuttal

[Anonymous No.10494039]

>>10493995
If non-toxic scotsmen can't be true scotsmen according to you then you're going to think all scotsmen are toxic

[Anonymous No.10494044]

>>10494024
If someone is acting out in complete opposition to what their internally held convictions are, then guessing that they are pathological is a safe guess. I also said that was not probable.

More probable is your friends are just being edgelords who think they are nihilist. Sorry?

[Anonymous No.10494072]

>>10494044
It's becoming more and more clear that you have this weird caricature of what a nihilist has to be in your head and it's funny. Just because you're too weak willed or dumb to imagine one can recognize that there are no objective moral truths or inherent meaning to the universe and still be well-liked, happy, and successful doesn't mean everyone is.

[Anonymous No.10494087]

>>10494044

Inconsistency is the norm.

[Anonymous No.10494089]

>>10493969
don't worry it's because he/she//xir is a pseud

[Anonymous No.10494110]

>>10494072
>people like me and I am successful and happy and I am a total nihilist so it CAN'T be inherently toxic!

[Anonymous No.10494125]

>>10494072
>"Nihilism is…not only the belief that everything deserves to perish; but one actually puts one shoulder to the plough; one destroys."

[Anonymous No.10494172]

>>10493800
>>10493819
>>10493990

I'm not disagreeing with you, but what compels you to believe in God? How is it self evident?

[Anonymous No.10494205]

Bump

[Anonymous No.10494375]

>>10493837
>Existentialists believed that meaning is derived from an individual's experience and not because life has inherent meaning
Doesn't this indicate an inherent meaning in experience itself? I want a self-conscious ideology.

[Anonymous No.10494381]

>>10493993
Read summa theologica and stop believing in modern mythology.

[Anonymous No.10494389]

>>10494172
If you take psilocybin, you will see the world without most of your subconscious filters. This is a spiritual experience for almost everybody. Children have less of these filters... Theism is a natural state for children.
Take this as you will. Ignore it if you dislike knowledge.

[Anonymous No.10494403]

>>10494389
>A degenerate junkie teaches people how to believe in god on an anonymous Sino-Japanese Sepukku Symposium

[Anonymous No.10494416]

>>10494403
I've yet to use it myself. I quoted Jordan Peterson and studies he cited, along with some others.

[Anonymous No.10494419]

>>10494416
>Jordan Peterson
Well, that's even fucking better!

[Anonymous No.10494749]

>>10493980
Because purpose is the very foundation of motivation. If there is no purpose then why should I be motivated?

[Anonymous No.10494925]

>>10493586
Just responding to your first question (the others are 2edgyfrme).
Things have meaning within their system of reference. Meaning itself is not constructed, per se, but arises from that system.

Read On Truth and Lies and Gay Science 108-125 if you want pic relateds opinion.

[Anonymous No.10494935]

>>10493854
>not believing in meme magic

[Anonymous No.10494943]

>>10494389

[Anonymous No.10494962]

>>10494172
I've never seen the prime mover argument refuted to my satisfaction. Come to the Deist side

[Anonymous No.10494975]

>>10494962
Okay but what about literally any other argument? Couldnt that just say more about you than it does, yknow, a metaphysical principle.

[Anonymous No.10495016]

>>10494975
Atheism seems to lead to utilitarianism and egalitarianism for most people, Atheism could be the absolute truth and it would still be poisoned by Atheists

[Anonymous No.10495111]

>>10495016
Okay but what does that have to do with my question or your reason for positing a deity? By your own account you've just said, "hey the truth is inconveniant lets ignore it," which A. Ain't no way to live in my book and B. I still don't see how that commits you to a deity. I think you're really underselling the human capacity to come up with innovative solutions to small problems desu.

[Anonymous No.10495122]

>>10495111
*truth might be

Also forgot
>absolute truth
Slow down there cowboy no one said anything about such spooks

[Anonymous No.10495199]

>HURRR you say ur a nihilist but u stil enjoy doing things
>DURR everyone knows nihilists can't care about anything

I swear, half of this board has a 14-year old's understanding of nihilism. ''Objective meaning'' is a nonsensical concept anyway.

[Anonymous No.10495701]

>>10494749
As I said before, there was a time you didnt know what your purpose in life was but you were still motivated to do things