/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Sun Dec 24 07:42:59 2017 No.10441617 [Reply] [Original]

Reading the follow up to Industrial Society And Its Future as a festive treat. The Anti-Tech Revolution Why And How was only published in 2016 from memory but Kaczynski started writing in 2013. I've only got around to it recently and it shows a far more fleshed out take on the situation. I particularly like his grasp of complex systems. He seems a bit more pessimistic than in ISAIF but hey MKULTRA and 2 decades in supermax will do that to you. Anyone else read this or any of Kaczynski's work?

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 08:56:05 2017 No.10441714

>>10441617
I read Industrial Society and it's future. He's right about how (modern) civilization corrupts mankind in the sense that our automatized world reduces our skills, intellect and strength. However bombing a few people/buildings won't do shit. He should have stayed in his cabin, working on making it as autonomous as possible, even make it into some sort of 'survivalist village', something more 'redpilled' people should start doing. (Sadly 98% of /pol/ is completely retarded, glad to see some 'greenpilleds' and traditionalists on here though). Anyway, either go off grid, or cause such a big event that it makes civilization collapse, but I doubt that there is something a regular man can do like that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 09:44:41 2017 No.10441776 >>10441617 does he still shill that terrible power process meme

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 09:50:37 2017 No.10441782

>>10441714
Kaczynski wrote in his journals (but I'm not sure where I read this exactly) that he didn't have any real plan, he just wanted revenge and was being vindictive. He just wanted to hurt people.

I always wondered that myself. Why bother just being a cunt and killing some random dudes and their secretaries? Weird shit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 10:14:01 2017 No.10441821 >>10441714 People talk like collapsing civilization is at all a good thing. It would be hell on Earth.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 10:15:51 2017 No.10441824 File: 13 KB, 640x320, nick-landweb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Haha retards

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 10:17:24 2017 No.10441830 http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/104495239/

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 12:03:38 2017 No.10442117 >>10441830 I just spent the last hour reading that. Thanks for posting it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 12:13:08 2017 No.10442160 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ-Upb4Szms

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 12:57:50 2017 No.10442338 File: 359 KB, 352x390, 1513456500652.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10441821 The hell on Earth IS civilization, you fool!

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 13:12:19 2017 No.10442387 >>10441617 I recommend reading Ellul, especially The Technological Society and Propaganda.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 13:14:49 2017 No.10442388 A good article on Kaczynski’s background and influences. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/06/harvard-and-the-making-of-the-unabomber/378239/

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 14:01:07 2017 No.10442500

I've read all of Kaczynski's works. After years and years of philosophy, literature, science and other subjects, I was blown away by Ted's honesty. He tackles actual problems at their roots. Unlike Freud and Marx who had all the insight necessary to formulate a coherent 'revolutionary' ideal but didn't, (Except Marx is as incoherent as catholicism is, in that its application is completely contrarian to the original ideal) and instead chose intellectualism over more .
For non american readers, the first part of ISAIF may appear contrived. His stance on politics, while right, is deeply engrained into the american ideal, which most people who have never lived in the US or had extensive contact with the culture cannot fully comprehend, therefore easily discardable. Also the power process isn't as fleshed out as some other philosophers wrote about(Late 19th/Early 20th). The rest of ISAIF reads like a mathematical proof though. It is why people will only argue about the first part on leftism and the power process.
>>10441714
>He should have stayed in his cabin
The entire appeal of Ted is that he didn't hide like the rest. He took it upon himself to spread his ideas, no matter the cost, no matter the consequences. Unlike Land, who expresses ideas similar to Ted's, but walks in the opposite direction, and actually embraces the inevitable outcome of Industrial society, Ted's course of action is pragmatic, honest and grounded. It's what's scary with him, most of what he did seems too intelligent at times. He started bombing shit because he realized bulldozers would come eventually. There is no point in hiding, like every philosophers do, whether it is physically or behind a desk, if you want to alter history. Kaczynski is the mathematical application of Nietzsche, Marx, and Freud.
>>10441821
Civilization is hell on earth. The perfect Hell. The one nobody will say no to.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 14:03:33 2017 No.10442508 >>10442500 Sorry for poor grammar and weird structure. Wrote this in a hurry before christmas eve dinner. I'll probably post some more later

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 14:10:30 2017 No.10442522 File: 38 KB, 340x270, 3FCCC765-9457-4D43-B9A1-AFCE296AE5D6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10441617 Should I read it? Is it worth it?

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 14:17:23 2017 No.10442539

There are similar threads here if you're curious:

__________

Biographies
__________

>Adolf Hitler - Youth (Age 0 - 25)
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/86086584/

>Adolf Hitler - First World War (Age 25 - 29)
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/134340484/

>Adolf Hitler - Rise to Power (Age 29 - 43)
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/150760491/

>Joseph Goebbels
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/142878351

>Rudolf Hess
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/152757392/

>Ted Kaczynski
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/104495239/

>Timothy McVeigh
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/118541028/

>Anders Breivik
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/87875112/

>H.P. Lovecraft
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/141773539

>William Cottrell
https://desuarchive.org/r9k/thread/30930679

>Adam Lanza
https://desuarchive.org/r9k/thread/24985710/

>Christopher Thomas Knight
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/122023099/

>Christopher McCandless
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/122167113/

>Christopher Harper-Mercer
https://4archive.org/board/r9k/thread/31293613

>Bill Hicks
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/128627797/

>Dylann Roof
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/139008559/

__________

Books
__________

>Julius Evola - Ride The Tiger
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/147654247

__________

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 14:25:36 2017 No.10442569 >>10442522 Read The Technological Society instead.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 14:26:24 2017 No.10442575 >>10442539 for >>10442117

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 14:27:47 2017 No.10442579 >>10442500 interesting >>10441782 stupid and naive >why do we even know about Kaczynski? He should done nothing noticeable so we wouldn't be talking about him right now. But I'm going to talk about him anyway!

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 15:11:08 2017 No.10442725
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>>10442539
Are you the poster of those thread ?. I remember reading the one about kazinski last year, fell like it was last month and i remember that i had a real pleasure, same as the one about anders breivik and hitler. if you are the poster of those thread you are doing a great anon. Thank you

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 15:12:40 2017 No.10442731 >>10442725 *job

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 15:29:31 2017 No.10442801
File: 220 KB, 750x1334, IMG_1693.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10441617
I don't see how anyone can read his work and honestly disagree with him. I find myself reading, looking for flaws, and the instant I've become aware that I've come up with a counter-argument, he addresses it within the next sentence. I read both works within two days because his writing is so clear, logical, and flowing. It scares me how right he was.

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 15:36:56 2017 No.10442823

>>10442579
The bombings were not needed. These views are nothing shocking or special, Ellul wrote basically the same observations about technology in more detail in the 1950’s, Mumford, Spengler and others had similar even earlier. His political stances have been a cliché for the last century. If he was not such a mediocre and uninteresting thinker, he could have had a much wider audience without the bombings and the following discreditation as a crackpot

Inb4
>muh 160 iq
>reads like a mathematical proof

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 15:47:08 2017 No.10442855
File: 414 KB, 1015x599, Nick land god i wish.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10441824
>Dude just let Chinks and megacorps rape the earth and your own asshole
>Look how enlightened I am letting things happen to my asshole
>>10441821
You don't really have a choice.As a civilisation there are so many chokepoints and we only need two to coincide to bring this whole thing down. I don't even mean black swans like solar flares, I mean dead certainties like ocean acidification, the looming lack of phosphates (which means an end to modern agriculture), the depletion of the water table, the poisoning of the water table thanks to the green revolution, demographic/ethnic tensions, the burgeoning third world, disease, plastics in your air, water and food etc etc. Nothing can stop the end from coming but we should want to throw a spanner in the works to prevent this inevitability. Preempt the disaster with an intervention to grind the machine to a halt before it is truly too late

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 15:53:07 2017 No.10442869 >>10442855 Civilization won't go down for good, it will only adopt, maybe regress at best. You cannot change the nature of power or humans. Technology will always make its users more powerful relatively and humans will always crave power and comfort.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 15:54:53 2017 No.10442875 >>10442855 >the poisoning of the water table thanks to the green revolution Care to elaborate?

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 16:01:49 2017 No.10442892

>>10442869
Fella this isn't like a bronze age collapse or something. This is not just a systems failure this is a depletion of finite resources on this earth that make civilisation possible. You may very well live (30 years tops) to see the end of life in the ocean. Look at the shrinking of the Caspian Sea. Now imagine the increased acidification that has occurred and will continue to occur in the other oceans. That is just one irreversible possibility that will have disastrous ramifications for any future attempt at a civilisation. As much as we might want things to go back to normal they forever will be changed.
>>10442875
The use of fertilisers and bug sprays has seeped into the water table thanks to post-1960s/70s agriculture. The green revolution was supposed to feed the 3rd world by modernising their agriculture. It did change things a bit but caused a host of new problems. Look at the health crisis in places like Punjab and Kashmir thanks to people drinking from ground water in agricultural areas. Even in the US you probably shouldn't drink from groundwater near those horrible corn farms

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 16:04:30 2017 No.10442902

>>10442539
I remember reading Elliot and Manson’s autobiographies in 2015 on twitter, I had almost no connection to these movement. Completely alone in my own schizotypal bubble, and then I found these people. And Ted too. You can see how they were all pressure cooked into evil by a psychotic environment. Manson was raped and abused as a kid, Elliot was emotionally neglected and humiliated by an invasive woman in his life, Ted was persecuted and isolated, betrayed and ignored by women and his peers. I don’t know that they would’ve been good had they been helped but they certainly were nothing like the people in power who do pure evil without blinking an eye. thanks for sharing. Also Hitler’s story is sad, Goebbels’ is pathetic

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 16:18:09 2017 No.10442965 >>10442892 Nothing is spent. Matter does not disappear. Either future civilizations will pick through our trash or human life will cease completely.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 16:23:08 2017 No.10442984 >>10442823 Which of those got published by WaPo?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 16:52:22 2017 No.10443134 >>10442965 >Matter does not disappear No but oil, groundwater and phosphates do

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 17:02:23 2017 No.10443174

>>10442984
The vast majority of newspaper readers didn't read the manifesto, it was too long and complicated. At best he reached a similar demographic that would have been subjected to his views trough academia, but without any staying power in credible intellectual circles. Add to that the negative effect of the discreditation as an insane person by the media and no one remembers him as anything else than the Unabomber and the only people interested in his thoughts are the ones who don't have the motivation or capability to move on to more serious thinkers that covered the same subjects.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 17:06:58 2017 No.10443201 >>10443134 This will only reduce the size of the population. Nothing fundamental will change.

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 17:50:07 2017 No.10443449

>>10441821
I' m the anon who wrote the post you replies to. I know, and I will miss a lot of things too. Honestly, I doubt mankind will have to start from absolute zero after SHTF. We have a lot of knowledge and many smart people will survive. Anyway, a collapse MUST happen, and it will, wether in 5 or in 200 years. Yeah, the modern civilization is rotten, but our parasitary lifestyles need the rot like maggots need rotten flesh.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 18:31:40 2017 No.10443587 >>10442965 entropy degrades materials into an unusable state. even metals. you'd need to reforge many metals using nuclear heat to restore their industrial properties are you retarded?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 18:33:00 2017 No.10443592 >>10443134 >>10443201 phosphates literally are impossible to recover once lost. the global temp fantatics are brainlets. phosphates are the biggest problem

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 18:57:11 2017 No.10443684

>>10443201
>Nothing fundamental will change.
No fish, no bees, no flowers, no pollen, hardly any fruit, difficulty getting cow feed, less dairy products etc etc Things will never be the same. That is my whole point. There wouldn't be an issue if things were just going to scale down. They won't. It'll be exponential growth right up until it falls off a cliff and likely basically overnight too. There will just be more wants than suppliers for those wants and then what? An Earth of 10+ billion people and maybe only 2 billion have access to anything remotely resembling acceptable living standards.
>>10443592
Global temp is its own issue but the phosphate thing is even more under reported than ocean acidification.

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 19:00:38 2017 No.10443701

>>10443684
bc people are idiots adn democracy is a mistake

people are dumb monkeys that feel affinity for trees and think climate change is going to kill (not help) trees. they cant emotionally get behind mlecules, but only emotional issues can be implemented by democracy

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 19:17:31 2017 No.10443762

>>10443701
I'll make the redditfugees of r/thedonald very mad by saying this but a society driven purely by attainment of capital and democracy are going to invariably destroy itself in this way. The only motivator in society is to get rich or die trying and there is no incentive to do anything other than that. Capitalism requires raw input and that input has to be taken from somewhere. So we're in a situation where the best you get is some vague platitudes about trees because our society is fundamentally democratic, industrial and capitalistic. People would have to vote for things which would change their lives forever. They will literally no matter what they think elect to have poorer or harder lives. That isn't how people think. It isn't even an opinion that eventually we'll totally run out of the resources on earth. Long before that we'll be in a poison barren dust ball earth where only a tiny slither of the people on earth live a good life. You see "trends" like soylent drinks, eating crickets, living in communal housing emerge. I can't see these trends as anything other than a thin advertising shine applied to the dystopia of the very near future. It is a future which is being forced upon the other creatures of earth, not to mention future generations who will judge us very harshly, by the masses of third worlders wanting to live like decadent soft Americans. As well as by a wilfully ignorant western population who want to order another martini on the titanic before the kitchen floods. Thanks to democracy and capitalism I do not see a peaceful off ramp. A minority will have to enforce a new order on the majority or else we have to hope that the bottom falls out sooner rather than later. Otherwise get used to acid rain Wednesdays

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 19:34:00 2017 No.10443820

>>10443762
I blame democracy more than capital. capital countries like israel and japan sterilise criminals and impose population limits in order to afford people better lives, regardless of "feelings"

it is really america/europe that fucked up, and mostly democracy, moreso than capital

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 19:38:56 2017 No.10443837

>>10443820
israel started off as a quasi-communist commune so that relationship to capital is weird to begin with. Japan is hardly a good example as though they're better off materially than pre-war they're an utter wreck socially. If you follow the logic of capitalism then you wind up with the western position of the past 200-300 years. There have been various deviations and limits on it over time but ultimately it is a system which invariably subverts everything else to its own service, it makes itself the be all end all. Which is why a little nothing like an ecological Armageddon doesn't matter so long as the shareholders keep getting theirs

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 19:45:09 2017 No.10443859 >>10442892 >>10442855 Hi mk4, you should start a blog or something

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 19:47:16 2017 No.10443867

>>10443837
I agree ith you in principle and also understand the history of both coutnries reasonably.

I think our divergence is that I don't believe capital is in control yet. it influences some social instituions by distorting incentives (marriage)

but for the most part I think the typical bureuacracy is in charge. the bureaucracy contrls capital via state regulation and bends capital to the demands of democracy/bureaucracy. bureaucracies dont care about ecological armageddon either, they care about promotions

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 19:59:15 2017 No.10443901

>>10443859
I have written stuff on a few forums, used to be active on twitter but deleted my account. I'm not sure what the readership of blogs are these days desu. Wouldn't really know how to shill it either
>>10443867
I can see that. Its a bit of a cop out but I think its both. However, bureaucracy in my opinion is just a powerful set of institutions it doesn't constitute a system anymore than a gearbox is a car. Capitalism is what has defined particularly anglo-american civilisation for centuries.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 20:04:33 2017 No.10443917 >>10443867 The bureaucratic control of capitalism is itself an unfolding of capitalism. Without heavy state involvement (its absence is even more utopian than communism) capitalism could not exist.

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 20:09:23 2017 No.10443929

>>10443917
This. In Ted's 2016 follow up to ISAIF he outlines how various managerial societies become unwieldy and collapse under the weight of their own complexity. So I'd say something that routinely implodes can't be the main driving force. Whereas capitalism has just grown and grown since its inception.

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 20:16:54 2017 No.10443953

>>10443901
I keep agreeing, but also think you are copping out a bit

capital has defined anglos for nearly 1.5k years. correct. it decoheres natural human desires, structures, etc (bureaucracy isone such structure)

but if capital is really, curently, the driving force of american/european, then tell me hy capital is currently fleeing to singapore?

instritutions of regulatory capture, such as the fda, occupy a plae that forces capital to bribe them/become cooped by the fda in order to maintain dominance. this is no logner capital, but rule by bureacracy, as the market mechanism decoheres

people like pournelle, land, and moldbug can clearly define the ruling mechanism of bureaucracy. it generaly happens to be "promotion of the dumb nd loyal that cannot threaten my position/usurp me"

I don't think you're being honest i you are telling me a "set of strong and immovable institutions" is not system. they negotiate ith each other, theykill rivals, they induce the military to threaten to bomb china, they fight the elected president, they make free speech illegal.

sounds like a system

take facebook. you think facebook is capital? they get 0% interest loans from the government. they're no different from an arm of the state department. if they had sudden loss of huge amounts of money, they'd still be in operation. they're a government institution.

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 20:19:10 2017 No.10443959

>>10443917
capital did fine in rural england for 800 years under a system of nongovernmental decentral manorialism

capital needs the scaffolding of intelligent people that resist central forces in order for price mechanics to funtion. hence israel/europe are not actually very capitalist, nd russia/china cannot seem to get it right, EVER.

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 20:29:12 2017 No.10444000

>>10443953
Well seeing as you brought up land I basically subscribe to his view of capitalism but rather than trying to find a Chinese boot to lick I see it as an unholy terror. His very vivid description of capitalism as some Lovecraftian monster that reached back through time to facilitate its own birth and success is, well interesting. Fundamentally I think the difference is that these institutions, states and pen pushers are transient things. But capital is forever. That it is fleeing to Singapore like you say or whatever is entirely the point. If it can't find a way it will make a way. Taleb says that capitalism is so robust because it rolls with the punches and adapts. More than that it is antifragile. Again i take the praise someone lavishes it with and interpret that as just an apt description of a self propelling ideology that crosses all boundaries with impunity in furtherance of itself.

So yes these immovable institutions are part of a broader system (the managerialist system emerged in Nazi germany, stalinist russia and FDR's USA basically simultaneously as a response to technological advances allowing greater organisation control) but what truly gives it a distinct flavour is capitalism. Otherwise there would be no meaningful functional difference between contemporary America, 80's China or Franco's Spain.

I've gotta go now because tis the season to contribute to the great pacific garbage island and so on. I will be checking the thread in a few hours. I don't think you're necessarily wrong about anything I just don't think you've got the hierarchy down right. Some residual loyalty to capitalistic notions is inescapable coming from what I suspect is probably an upper working class to upper middle class background. As a bona fide anglo this stuff is basically in my blood so it has taken a long hard road to undo this kind of thinking. But I have arrived at what to the best of my ability I've reasoned is as close to the truth as a layman is going to get

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 20:54:26 2017 No.10444057 >>10443587 Which of these metals were necessary for civilization again?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 20:57:12 2017 No.10444069 >>10443684 >An Earth of 10+ billion people and maybe only 2 billion have access to anything remotely resembling acceptable living standards So? I'm not saying it will be nice. A lot of people will die. Civilization won't still go away.

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 21:15:17 2017 No.10444132

>>10443820
Countries do not exist in that way. They are all together. Israel would not be the same without the US and vice versa. Same for Japan. Same for Bangladesh. Because underlying the barriers of the lands and the languages and cultural things there is also the fact that investors from one place transform the other. This is why I can't get by any discourse that basis itself on "see, in here they are alright!" or "see, that country is not working out". At what cost are they doing alright? Who is paying the bill, so to speak?

How does sterilise criminals help in anything? That still sees criminals as some sort of people with a moral deficiency, but that's not the difference between a criminal and a "good citizen", the difference is in opportunity, risk, social and political differences. Someone from the middle class would never think of stealing from someone, it sounds more absurd and evil to us because when we don't do it, things are alright and if we did it, it's risky and violent. To someone who has nothing to lose, there is a bunch to gain. If you look from a distance, they are doing the same as everyone else, calculating gains and losses and acting accordingly. If you're from a favela you can choose between a shit job with no opportunity to grow, no room to study a profession, no security because where you live is dangerous anyway and health care is of low quality and expensive, or you can follow the cool kids who have weapons and thus the only glimpse of the power of choosing in sight, a more risky but more rewarding opportunity of gaining a lot of money with drug dealing for example, because it's profittable, because it is forbidden. And just like in anything, only a few make it, but in their case, those who don't just die in gang battles or by the hands of the police, or they are left in great debt to other dealers. Their choices in life are fundamentally different from the ones we have, their ethical problems are totally different. If we magically got rid of all the criminals in the world right now, as if they simply vanished over the night, things would still be the same, because the "room" for it would be open, drug dealing would still be profitable and with no contendantes, arms dealers would still want the police to raise their weaponry, etc. The problem is structural, not particular.

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 21:24:56 2017 No.10444183

>>10444000
Just focusing on capital or capitalism seems like an awfully reductionist way to view it. I think it is more the ever accelerating co-evolution of technology and culture. Technology gives power to its users, which in turn promotes cultural adaptations that promote the use of technology, which leads to more power etc. Capitalism is just the manifestation of this. Less people tied to agriculture, more consumers, technological advancements, more production, more cultural changes (breaking down of institutions, ideologies, social relations, basically Weber's rationalisation ), less and less of anything to do than feed the cycle ad inf.

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 21:31:55 2017 No.10444205

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_K_79O21hk

I think it will interest you guys, if you haven't seen it already. I'm not sure it's there because I'm posting without rewatching it, but it's a zizekian pov anyway.

Things will go on even in the face of disaster and that's totally awful.

I feel a lot of people think of resource scarcity or natural disasters as some fatal situation. But when you see the state of the air of some cities or if you have visited a dumpster before and seen this with your own eyes you see it is already here and yet we go on.

Have you ever heard of a complaint/joke that one day we will be selling bottled air? Decades ago people were doing the same joke with water.

Microwaves ease our lives so much, but they also allow more premade food and the plastic that comes with it. That allows us to eat quicker and perhaps that gives an excuse for a corporation to reduce your lunch time. Since the food is premade, it can be made with cheaper ingredients and counter balanced by cheaper chemicals that could make it more bright colored and look healthier. On a personal level, I love microwaves. But when I think about it for real, perhaps they are a bad idea altogether.

Industrial farming puts a bunch of animals together in poor situation, but it's cheaper to do this and treat them with antibiotics. To feed them you use soy that is planted on the other side of the world because their ecological regulations are poor because rich farmers bought the local deputees to work on their favour. This soy is transgenic, but if there is an issue you have to buy it from the same company. etc.

This next generation will be raised on virtual reality. How are they going to be politically engaged? How are they going to even care about anything going on in the material world around them? It's not different from facebook. It's not different from television in the past. Capitalism adjusts itself all the time, mediating all of those relationships so that they remain. You are not allowed to be hired for more than a certain given hours a week because it is inhumane and we are not in the 19th century anymore, but your "nice boss" will send you a message about work at 3am on sunday. That is still better than working at 19th cent. factory you'd say, but only at a particular level, on a global level, we haven't moved much.

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 21:32:51 2017 No.10444206

>>10443820
>>10444183
Democracy is just a step in this as well. It destroyed the old authorities and structures to make way to new culture that allowed for new technological development, and now it is being replaced by technocracy that works by puppeteering the old structures of power that used to be driven by ideologies, now replaced with just seemingly aimless rationalisation, which removes more and more barriers from the way of further progress.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 21:34:03 2017 No.10444208 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI5hrcwU7Dk

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 22:01:04 2017 No.10444302

Technological optimism is just too easy and appealing to the masses. We'll just need to come up with a way to collect uranium from seawater or just fusion for free energy, GM to make plants survive with less phosphates and no insect pollination, using free energy to synthesize phosphates, or just make GMO's that collect them from the environment. Just invent an AI, if you can't come up with solutions yourself. Ecological fascism etc. is a hard sell compared to that.

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 22:15:57 2017 No.10444346

>>10444000
land is moving in the direction (and I generally agree) of believing in the stark possibility the monkeys (as he puts it) could put an end to the entire globe and possibility of higher structures permanently via giving niggers the keys to the u.s./european nuclear arsenal

imagine a grievance based political system tellin china to pay up for their privilege or else.

is that capitalism in control? is it morphing? not likely. niggers have done this for 10k years, but using spears and camels instead of nukes. the likelihood of their bureaucracies breaking a 10k year cycle of grievance harvesting is very unlikely.

>>10444132
it does eist in this manner. and no, cross investment is not a "thing" bc investments in bangaladesh fail 100% of the time if it is by the market. fi it is NOT via the market, then it is a feudal investment, not capital

further, jp/cn/kr FORBID by legal code foreign investments.

>sterilise
moral failings are generally 80-90% genetic failings in terms of potential/range of behaviors. morality is created by evolution. killing naturally and ndeniably changes the evolutionary nash

>favela boo hoo
this is not the planet in reality. certainly not the reality of spics that live in fucking america and still behead people

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 22:23:07 2017 No.10444366 >>10444346 >moral failings are generally 80-90% genetic failings Care to elaborate?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 22:24:23 2017 No.10444370 >>10444366 are you familiar ith iterated game theoretic schema?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 22:34:24 2017 No.10444404 >>10444370 So game theory for infinitely, or arbitrary finitely repetitions?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 22:35:27 2017 No.10444408 >>10444404 *infinite and finite.

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 22:36:53 2017 No.10444415

>>10444346
If I want my product to be made in the cheapest way possible I go to Bangladesh for their work force. Which means that literally if Bangladesh was any better than what it is that would be bad for some rich people's business. Countries are all the time discussing embargos and regulations on each other based on them being undemocractic and so on, whatever they claim. But they overlook countries they actually do business with and these normalized situations are never shown on tv as news. All situations of poverty arise from a position in relation to other powers, it's never "they are just not good enough at it", ever.

>moral failings are generally 80-90% genetic failings in terms of potential/range of behaviors. morality is created by evolution. killing naturally and ndeniably changes the evolutionary nash
Geez, what are you a phrenologist? Take that pseudo science to /pol/

>this is not the planet in reality. certainly not the reality of spics that live in fucking america and still behead people
I really don't understand what you mean with this sentence. You are basically saying "no, that's not how it is" and that's all?

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 23:11:31 2017 No.10444534

>>10444408
okay. then you understand the theoretic payout of any stable nash is genetic. that genetic payout is in the form the game is played in, e.g. genetics

the behavioral strategies are inherently tied to genetic predispositions. if behavior isnt genetic, then by definition, behavior cannot evolve to be enabled

thus moral failings are genetic strategies that are commonly interpreted to be "cheating" the nash

people that are afraid run in the face of danger as the brave people fight nd die. this is "cheating" thus a moral failure. fear is obviously a genetic trait that falls on spectrum. same for lying, murder, etc.

you have a prevalence of a genetic trait in a population in the same incidence as the likely payout for such a strategy (e.g. rape, murder, islam, etc.)

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 23:16:20 2017 No.10444551

>>10444415
you're an ideologue

poverty, murder, starvation is not relative

rome, having no electricity, less tech than modern bangaladesh, less animal poer than the arabs, less fucking food, etc, managed to build piping for seers in their cities. modern india/bangaladesh cant build toilets and they have MORE food MORE everything today than ancient romans

this is a problem of competence, not some resouce deficiency. or compare to nk. they have NOTHING, less food, in fact, than bangaladeshis, and a less competent government, but can still make nuclear missiles

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 23:28:51 2017 No.10444613

>>10444534
How do you account for morale failures being present in both sexes, even though the reproductive strategies are widely different between genders in the evolutionary environment? What about sexual selection in addition to natural selection? Do these moral failures manifest in the phenotype on an instinctual level (eg. aggression, fight or flight etc.) or on a psychological/cognitive level (lying would imply this)?

Anonymous Sun Dec 24 23:47:11 2017 No.10444686

>>10444613
females clearly have a differentiated set of moral standards, survival conditions, therefore moral failures. they are mediated by their separate genetic behaviors

mate selection obviously takes place on the basis of observable genetic characeristics. this is part of all signaling theory

>or cognitive level
cognition is bottom up, not top to bottom. if you arent up to speed on that, look at the ability of neural scanners to see decisions taking place BEFORE the subject is conscious of it

by the time a decision reaches the conscious level, it has been made by the bottom up aggregation of phenotypical neurological pressures

e.g. the marshmallo test. it is very hard to impossible to resist hypothalamic pressure, but very easy to give in. the amount you can do either is directly caused by frontal cortical volume (genetic)

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 24 23:49:28 2017 No.10444693 >>10441821 you fools earth is hell

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:06:52 2017 No.10444761 >>10441617 He's underrated, but shouldn't be taken literally

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:09:10 2017 No.10444766

>>10444686
>cognitive level
I might have phrased it wrong, but what I meant that are these more advanced cognitive processes only made possible by our advanced neocortex (so limited to hominids or equivalent nervous system) or are they just refined reflexes, homologous to the kind that are in animals?

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:11:06 2017 No.10444773

>>10444551
Your example is excellent to prove my point though. Rome was nothing without its army, and without its taxes, it demanded the labour of a lot of poor people to produce its richness, it had two sides just like any empire.

>not some resouce deficiency
Here I know it kind of went over your head. Indeed, it was never about resource deficiency. I never said Bangladesh is poor because they didn't have with them some sort of natural luck, but because they are in the position of being explored. Poverty is a relationship in itself. It cannot be measured by the ammount of things one have or does not have, but by the ammount of things one does not have in relation to what others have. Consider all the indigenous tribes in America and Africa and how they lived before encountering the western civilization and how they live now. That is, even if it may appear to us they had nothing, they effectively only have nothing once it is absolutely necessary for them to have what we have. Study this.

And still about Bangladesh, it's not about the people or the place. Who knows, maybe in 300 years, a turn of events could make them king of the world. Still, for them to be kings of the worlds they would have to explore someone else. The issue is totally structural. Hate the game not the players or something of that sort.

I don't like talking about NK because everyone thinks they are experts about it, either pro or against them, it's ridiculous, people have a caricature of it in mind. I don't know how they are with their resources and I think you don't either. But you do know that if NK didn't have a bomb, it would have been completely destroyed by the US and its allies long ago. They cannot afford not to have it. And while we like to say NK leaders cannot be negotiated with, because they are "loonies" or whatever (that's all a show anyway), we think that it is somehow okay for western countries to have an atomic bomb.

George Orwell in his famous essay in which he coined the term cold war talks of democratic and authoritarian weapons. A machine gun can be used by a government to oppress or by a revolutionary to liberate, but an atomic bomb will never be a revolutionary weapon. And yet we allow governments to have it "for our protection". Just like NK can say to itself the same thing. But when you think about it, it does not serve anyone. If the US nukes NK it would be just as bad as the NK to bomb the US, because if we dislike anything about NK is how they oppress they people and an atomic bomb would not go against a government, but it would go against the people. We are willing to create narratives that justify things like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but they are unexcusable.

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:14:21 2017 No.10444782

>>10444551
>>10444773
Also, the fuck is an ideologue

>implying we are not all taken by ideology whether we like it or not
>implying ideology is the same as values, ideals or opinions and not something that runs underneath the apparent neutrality of our acts
>implying ideology does not appear precisely at the points in which we think we are just being rational and "normal"

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:18:45 2017 No.10444790 >>10444534 We have had massive shifts in the relative frequency of these behaviors (murder, rape etc.) in the western world in the last few centuries. Surely selection can't work that fast?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:21:45 2017 No.10444797 >>10444782 >the fuck is an ideologue A person who does not acknowledge your points and does not partake in ideological self-critique.

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:23:12 2017 No.10444800

>>10444773
you really got off the rails

poverty is not "relational"

chinese people that don't have plumbing or heating can learn differential calculus after coming hom efrom their slave factory jobs and blacks that get free food cant learn to read.

roman armies did not build their plumbing. they didn't even have fucking digital numers but still built plumbing. bangaladeshis have plenty, in fact, if you arent retarded you'd figure out that resource differentials FUEL economic productivity in developing countries because cheap labor makes infrastructure very easy to build. the VERY fucking first thing japan, china, nd korea all did to boost industrial productivity is CUT pay for laborers. in the 1910s japanese laborers took a pay cut to make their earnings less than indians, making jp corporations fantastically rich

your "relative poverty" argument should have made the japanese murder each other in the street. instead they became the most militarily potent nation on the planet after america and germany.

there is no "relative" poverty. bangaladesh is shitty because their people are dumb and very bad at ny job they do.

I can post bangaladeshi test scored in america for you, for second gen RICH families. they are under the scores for 1st gen DIRT poor chinese and koreans

your thought process is a complete mess. you blame imperialism for everything.

I don't like engaging people like you because YOU think you understand everything

the reason bangaladeshis dont build plumbing is because they cant

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:24:45 2017 No.10444802 >>10443953 this is such horseshit, you’re dressing up lolbert arguments with appeals to Land and Moldbugs conspiracy theory that conveniently excludes the corporate councils and subversion of market principles. end yourself you fucking coward.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:25:47 2017 No.10444805 >>10444797 lol maoism

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:27:12 2017 No.10444807

>>10444790
it can and it did

if you arent current, the english and japanese took fantastically detailed records of government hangings detailed by type of crime, area, date, and total crime rates, etc

violence fell in direct proportion to the number of violent criminals that got removed from the gene pool. in england that happened roughly 500 years ago, in japan roughly 700. the industrial revolution became enabled by the lack of violent people roving around killing merchants, the ability to build cities that didn't need castles, the reduced need for grain taation to feed armies to police your cities, etc.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:27:15 2017 No.10444809 >>10444797 anon, i think that was a rhetorical quesiton

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:28:42 2017 No.10444814 >>10444802 the fuck? I never argued corporation don't rule the roost. but that isnt a market based rule if they rig the legal system to guarantee them profits are you incapable of reading?

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:33:39 2017 No.10444824

>>10444800
I'm not that anon, but what happened in Japan is very different from Bangladesh. Japan was a powerful nation and imperialists on their own. They did not start from nowhere. They are not a paradise either, they work too much, they have no room, they have the latest technology cheap but food is expensive, etc

And you are being rused by megacorps who will defend cutting paychecks to improve productivity but would never reduce the profit margin for the same reason.

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:38:46 2017 No.10444835

>>10444800
Not the same guy, but you don't seem to understand the actual genetic mechanisms behind intelligence. Hint, it is a polygenetic trait determined by a large amount of recessive genes, which has a tendency to regress towards the mean over generations even in relatively pure lines. Why does the distribution fit so well with a normal distribution?

Also, pretty much all comparative IQ-research between countries is methodologically extremely shitty, even relative to the bad general standards of psychometrics.

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:40:37 2017 No.10444838

>>10444824
I never argued about paradise

the discussion is this and ONLY this: forces of production

he argues relative poverty PREVENTs production even if material abunance is obvious. the evidence historically is that relative poverty augments production because rock bottom pay acts as a subsidy to industry

japan DID start at rock bottom in the late 1800s. stop being illiterate. they enslaved their people to labor to death in factories. this caused their country to industrialise. uner his/your argument, enslavement prevents industry. this is fucking incorrect

the japanese industrialised bc the jobs necessary to industry need people that could read and do math. the japanese COULD, so they DID

bangladeshis cannot, so they DONT.

look at their gre scores for the ones livng in america or europe. their engineers are less capable at math than korean art students

that is neither relative nor absolute poverty. that is incapability. they come here rich.

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:40:39 2017 No.10444839

>>10444814
it is a market based rule because the market only has or ever will exist as long as corporate entities exist which can protect investors from liabilities and fucking pool capital together for investment and production you lying sick nigger. Capital has raped our fitness as a species, you think its a coincidence that fertility drops, color acuity, grip strength, visual acuity, g and conscientious all freefall in nations where Capital takes precedence? What is that all govrnment jobs and rent control? You silly toothless snake.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:42:42 2017 No.10444842 >>10444835 I understand it perfectly fine the discussion had been about productive capacity. I understand that intelligence is polygenic rather than a collection of snps none of that even remotely refutes my point

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:46:20 2017 No.10444854

>>10444839
please detail for me the process that pooled capital uses to influene the government to defray risk if the government has no influence or control over markets or compensatin

are you telling me jp morgan is going to force disney shareholders to bail out bear stearns? or that jpm is going to force an irs thats been abolished to collect revenue from people that have no obligation to pay it?

or is jpm only capable of taking capital from.... the people that voluntarily give them capital? oh god, the horror

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:52:15 2017 No.10444873 >>10444807 So it is not polygenic, or it's affected only by a few genes, and dominant? Otherwise it's pretty hard to see how it could have been so quickly removed from the population by only targeting the one's who manifest it in their phenotype.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:53:57 2017 No.10444878 >>10444842 Then how do we develop such massive differentials in productivity between populations in such a short time?

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 00:59:51 2017 No.10444891

>>10444873
by killing the criminals that manifest the traits, you very fast, over time, reduce those that have the most of the polygenic locii

height is polygenic. if you shoot every short person in the head height goes up VERY fast

I feel like you're being intentionally dumb

500 years is NOT short. a russian guy domesticated arctic foes in three generations

just fyi, england and japan killed roughly 1% of the ENTIRE population every generation via legal hangings, thats 2% of males, roughly

2% compounded takes 20 iterations in order to double a given magnitude

>>10444878
are you intending to use industrial production as an obscurative variable? (it is not)

do you intend to argue genetic inteligence?

state your issue more plainly

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 01:38:14 2017 No.10444983

>>10444891
Makes sense. My intuition just screams in opposition, the stuff I used to study would have significant changes only on a geological timescale. Do you have any age statistics for the hanged people, I would presume they would have reproduced in pre-modern times before they were executed, of course you would probably keep having children for the whole fertile age of the female. Are there any estimates on how efficient the legal systems were in finding the right culprit?

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 01:59:04 2017 No.10445027

>>10444983
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/03/politically-incorrect-paper-of-the-day-death-penalty-eugenics.html

keep in mind other factors reduce violent people from reproducing. children of criminals are often left in the cold to die, criminals got conscripted to teh front lines to fight in the most dangerous ranks, violent people are less intelligent on avg and less capable of planning out farm labor over time, preserving farm assets.

manorialism began much earlier in england/japan than germany/italy/most of china. manorialism, being a form of contract labor that builds connections neceassary for commerce and training, disfavors criminals because the family has a reduced incentive to defend violent family from true accusations. if no one lets your violent son into their manor voluntarily, you sink to the bottom of the social order as a person that cannot maintain a salary large enough to rent farmland

it is esimated that only 40% of adult males left living offspring. that is a very strong evolutionary force against violence in free systems of contract labor

so much so that today anglo nd japanese people remain the most productive, least corrupt, least violent people on the planet. only a couple other, very small populations even come close

continental europe, not even bad by any metric, is still much more corrupt on almost every measure than the english or the japanese

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 02:06:55 2017 No.10445033
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>>10441617
OP here I'm back. Thread has taken an interesting turn. Some shitflinging but hey I know where I am. If anyone would like to ask me some questions or something I'll be around for a while.

I am currently on a joint venture with a friend to purchase some land out from the city. Not rural Montana but the best we can afford. He's actually leading the charge here I consider it his project but i'd like to try my hand at permaculture as I've just ordered some texts by Masanobu Fukuoka

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 06:22:36 2017 No.10445354

I was offered the book for free but was spooked the fuck out by it. I read the chapter on self-propagating systems that is available online. I think cultural-evolution, evolutionary biology, complex systems and so on, can explain what is going on and where it will end. Oh and psychology too.

I think human psychology is not functional for the problems we face. We are good at facing direct risks but not risks that build and build. I wouldn't be suprised to see a slow death and disentigration of civilization. Things like sperm quality dropping, those sort of things. But climate change will mess up things too, in a direct way, making certain regions uninhabitable.

I wrote this fast but would like to make a more insightful and longer post in this thread.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 07:06:51 2017 No.10445411 >>10445354 >I was offered the book for free but was spooked the fuck out by it. Half my personal library both pdf and paper is contraband lmao

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 07:20:41 2017 No.10445435 >>10445027 The biggest problem with this seems to be the classic one for evopsych, you have an interesting hypothesis, which is not at least immediately at odds with biological realities, but you have no actual proof.

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 08:49:55 2017 No.10445552

>>10444838
>>10444800
>he argues relative poverty PREVENTs production
>his/your argument, enslavement prevents industry.
I never argued any of that, how can you interpret that way?

>the evidence historically is that relative poverty augments production because rock bottom pay acts as a subsidy to industry
> they enslaved their people to labor to death in factories. this caused their country to industrialise
This is totally correct and it's actually my point. That you can only create rich stuff at the expense of someone's poverty. There is always someone to be enslaved so that you can profit on top of it. Poverty is relative to someone elses riches and vice-versa.

What I think you are confused is that you are thinking each of those countries are little islands (okay, japan is literally a little island tho lel). Bangladesh's poverty is the source of other countries production and profit. Actually we can't even think of countries like that anymore, there are some companies that profit on it and if you track them you'll see who owns them is not from Bangladesh, that the difference between their labour and the price of the product they produce (and in this sense they produce a lot) is kept elsewhere and not in Bangladesh. That's why it's not a matter that they should work harder for them to get out of that situation, they already work as hard as possible but at shitty low salary jobs. They are hostages, they are owned by other people. That's not to say it won't ever change or that they can't fight the corruption of their politicians and the regulations that keep them at shitty jobs and stops them from acquiring expertise or developing social programs, but that in any baby step that they take towards that they'll encounter the greatest resistance from outside their country. You are right that they are incapable, but not for the right reasons.

Historically there are several situations in which either a country enslaves its own people, or enslaves another or suck natural resources from some other place, etc. To the US, WW2 in Europe was great business. To Europe, african slaves and american natural resources worked wonders. England of the 19th century was supreme, but because of their colonies and because they had their own children working at factories. To every rich man there is someone in misery that is totally connected to it, within or without their country. In Japan, as you said, they enslaved their own people, but there were also rich people in Japan accumulating wealth from that work and negotiating with others from the outside.

What is absurd is for you to think this has anything to do with genetics or because some people are just not trying hard enough. If you were born in 1500 you'd say Portuguese people are just naturally more competent than the rest of the world, they are just more intelligent and so on. But no, it's always about context.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 10:40:00 2017 No.10445767 >>10445033 Ever think of writing Ted? I've read most of his works and some of Ellul's as well, but I can't think of anything to write to him about.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 10:44:44 2017 No.10445780 >>10441782 He got pissed off because there was some construction near his cabin

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 10:54:18 2017 No.10445801 >>10445027 The anglos are a nation of pedophile aristocracy and ultra violent hooligans, they're the utter scum of the earth

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 11:12:11 2017 No.10445848 File: 20 KB, 439x293, DCAFD290-09B4-4F9B-9F59-0CAF75C0C070.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Y’all need to read some Linkola.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 13:08:07 2017 No.10446185 >>10445801 Pahahahahahahaha

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 13:16:34 2017 No.10446228

>>10443684
>An Earth of 10+ billion people and maybe only 2 billion have access to anything remotely resembling acceptable living standards.
This is what happens when you the virtuous egalitarian and demographic process allows those into power who demand that everyone has a right to be fed. Even if the first world survives a collapse, it does not feature the necessary inhabitants to rebuild it into what it was. The peoples who built this civilisation no longer reside in it.

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 13:27:21 2017 No.10446261

>>10446228
Also, even if there were no serious ecological or enviromental factors facing us, western civilisation would still be on the decline anyway. Falling birth rates, the fall of traditional marriage, the mass import of foriegners and a moral and cultural revolution are all signs of a failing society. Workers from the third world with no ties to the lands they move to cannot be good. The european nations as we know them will not exist in the future, and large parts of them have already disappeared. Quite sad really. Call me allallthe the names you like but it is true.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 15:37:34 2017 No.10446760 >>10441824 >>10442855 I’m convinced Nick Land’s accerationism is a megacorp/CIA psy-op designed to make pseuds complacent or even enthusiastic about the very real problems of capitalism. Why’s he sure that it will all collapse?

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 16:55:56 2017 No.10447093

>>10445435
no proof, but, the civility of every country on the planet correlates very very closely to the length of manorialism practiced universally.

>>10445552
no one is involved ith bangaladesh. not many peopl trade. some people have t shirt factories there (VERY LITTLE GDP for the industrial nation from t shirts)

the idea bang. is poor bc of rich nations is fucking stupid. YOU are stupid nd should feel bad.

japan doesnt use foreign labor or import foreign goods for nearly anything. they're not rich because they mistreat niggers

do not have a merry christmas. proceed directly to a bass pro shop, buy a shotgun, put it in your mouth, and pull the trigger

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 17:17:19 2017 No.10447171

>>10447093
>no one is involved ith bangaladesh. not many peopl trade. some people have t shirt factories there (VERY LITTLE GDP for the industrial nation from t shirts)
Anon, I didn't say Bangladesh is rich for it. The richness they produce is being accounted on some other countries GDP. You'd have to look to the difference between the price that is being paid for those shirts in the store and how much that goes to the pocket of people in Bangladesh (the workers and those who own them directly there). You'd see the greater portion of that money never goes there, it stays in the stores and who own them, maybe some Eurofag idk.

>japan doesnt use foreign labor or import foreign goods for nearly anything. they're not rich because they mistreat niggers
I know, but you said so yourself that they "enslaved their people to labor to death in factories". If they didn't, they wouldn't make it.

The rest of your post is just whining boo hoo fuck u pls die wahhh

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 17:21:37 2017 No.10447195 >>10441617 Excellent thread. All the real loonies and whackos and faggots on the board gathered in one place. >antitech revolution Lmao fucking retards

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 17:26:06 2017 No.10447212 >>10447093 >japan does not import foreign goods The ironless country thag has become an automized monster does not import foreign goods. Do you think they beam them in from a pocket universe or something?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 17:30:01 2017 No.10447230 >>10447195 Thanks for the bump :')

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 18:01:47 2017 No.10447355

>>10447195
If you think Kaczynski writes about how bad technology is you need to close that wiki tab right now and open a book son. The entire point of 'antitech' writers is that technology is too good to be given up, even if it replaces us all. You just showed everyone in this thread how ignorant you are.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 18:31:00 2017 No.10447493 >>10441617 ITT: Cletus trumpcucks mad at internet because it's used by the left too

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 18:35:52 2017 No.10447521 >>10447493 I know this is ironic but still anon you sound retarded...

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 18:51:39 2017 No.10447587
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>>10447171
improve your reading you dumb faggot

cheap t shirts does not make america rich. making the entirety of the global computing, engine, medical, space, ai, genetics output does.

there is NO contribution from any of these things from your beloved sand niggers

>>10447212
they literally have their refineries fucking 30 miles from tokyo you idiot. they sometimes recycle large things like ships via south korea

their involvement in trade concerning commodities nd third orld countries is TNY

niggers are niggers

oh no, those poor filipino people being oppressed by.... thai people?

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 19:03:32 2017 No.10447615

>>10447587
>cheap t shirts does not make america rich
Never said it did. It makes like 5 people be very rich though, on the back of several people from Bangladesh.

You're still thinking in countries and did not understand what I said.

>there is NO contribution
It's very funny to use the word "contribution" as if we were in this together and not one against each other.

>beloved sand niggers
lel, get a hold of yourself faggot. I'm talking of a structural problem and you're babbling about this people and that people. My very point is that it doesn't matter who the people are and you seem to think I'm defending Bangladesh in particular.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 20:33:29 2017 No.10447916 Some dumb racists fucks in this thread, Christ. When civilization falls apart, you'll be the first to die. We all will.

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 21:40:09 2017 No.10448138

>>10441714
You can't be overt though. There have been some cases in Germany, for instance, where survivalist villages were tore down by the government because they were "right wing extremists". The only kind of survivalist village that will be left alone are hippies getting high and screwing each other 24/7. You've gotta be subtle if you plan on having a survivalist village that goes against the grain. Shit, collecting rainwater is forbidden in some places.

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 22:05:34 2017 No.10448218

>>10441714
The only person I've seen so far that actually addresses that issue is Varg. I don't care if 4chan doesn't like him, or that whole edgy bs, he is the only one discussing solutions to the problems Ted correctly diagnosed. If anything, Varg is underrated.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 22:08:09 2017 No.10448228 >>10448218 Varg is one of the most memed metal/p4k musicians of the past ten years

Anonymous Mon Dec 25 22:57:30 2017 No.10448380

>>10448228
Does the fact some kids choose to make memes with his face challenge the validity of his ideas? Talks such as these about the fall of civilization have only begun taking off recently, yet he has addressed that for years. Weakness as a byproduct of technology, environmental issues, the inherent slavery to civlization/capitalism/(call the system whatever you like) are things he has also been talking about for years. His stances remain strong and proven right with each passing day, while his critics are gradually exposed. I know this seems like me majorly kissing his ass, but I do not intend for it to sound as such, it's just the natural response to what I've stated before: he's underrated. If he was a "serious academic" living in some urban hellhole, teaching in a university with enforced diversity classes and without a family(or mixed kids if any kids at all) then he would be seen as a "serious figure". Except his ideas wouldn't be allowed in a """serious"" envinroment, of course, for the same reason Ted's weren't. Most anons have an awful lot of trust in the system for people who call themselves ellucidated.
And I'll go further: his genius is precisely communicating the bare essentials of his ideas. A 4min video gets the point across, unlike some "intellectuals" who feel the need to talk bullshit for an hour.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 25 23:33:18 2017 No.10448481 File: 70 KB, 645x729, killyourself.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10447916 if it fell you'd probably want a lot of "muh tribe > yours" people on your side.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 00:41:43 2017 No.10448657 >>10448380 >Get’s the point across Only irrelevant people watch 4 min videos from youtube. There won’t be no spontaneous revolutionary consciousness or shit like that. Grass roots grows only grass.

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 01:24:07 2017 No.10448771
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>>10444205
What we're talking about when we discuss dumpsters and so on is sabi (寂) on a massive scale. What's horrifying about trash is not the destruction of nature or humanity or another such entity, but the destruction of the very system that creates it. Our system of production functions through unobstrusiveness: it advances through equation of products -- not the equation of products in an exchange, i.e. a=b; but the equation a series, i.e. a=a. The problem is that a=a must be either false or meaningless. A pair of can of Coke must be different, but in being different they cannot be can of Coke. Our mass production exists in a realm of unobstrusiveness, it purports itself to be capable to go on forever, and its appeal lies in infinity, but it has its grounds on that which is finite. The amount of metal in this world cannot become an infinite amount of Coke cans, but Coke cans are necessarily infinite. The masses are abstract, but abstractions cannot concretely exist. The Coke cans all decay.

Nowadays we don't live in an age of chaos or a coming apocalypse. Only the ideologically possessed believe it to be so, halfly believe it, because they can only halfly believe. Today we live in an age of ever increasing order. Order does not function by simple admistration, by putting square pieces in square holes; on the contrary, what order creates is space. Its purpose is to create spaces of assured exchange, in the sense of exchange value. It's not the monolith, but the road (道) that is order's true face: the destruction of all process and mediation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 03:25:35 2017 No.10449002 >>10442855 Will it all go to hell before or after I die? Will I be able to live happily and enjoy the wonders of the future. Or will I have to live in a Mad Max type world too? As long as I'm dead before it rots, fuck it all.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 03:46:54 2017 No.10449039 >>10444205 >>10448771 >Trading cubes of trash as money. Everybody becomes rich. It's a gold rush! >tfw Sam Hyde's predictions will become true. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yFhR1fKWG0

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 03:48:15 2017 No.10449042 >>10445033 Manhunt: Unabomber is pretty good, but they tried a bit hard to make Ted really edgy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 03:49:44 2017 No.10449045 >>10449042 Is it actually good or just serviceable Netflix pulp?

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 04:06:14 2017 No.10449070

>>10449045
Nah it's good, it's a series though so don't expect some philosophical breakthrough, but the story is engaging, there's a bit more focus on the detective that caught him and his method so it can be said it presents the story from the law enforcement perspective.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 04:19:25 2017 No.10449096 >>10448481 It won't fall and no, you wouldn't, because you spergs don't amount to shit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 04:22:14 2017 No.10449099 >>10448380 Imagine how much bettet your life would be if you spent all the time you took to write this post and all the time you took to watch a crazy Neonazi Pagan Norwegian """"musician"""" learning something useful like a new language or something.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 04:24:41 2017 No.10449104 >>10446185 its not even a little false

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 04:35:49 2017 No.10449122 >>10448380 So, this is what a cultie thinks. Take your meds son, they're there for a reason

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 04:38:45 2017 No.10449135 >>10449099 Like how Varg speaks Norse, Danish, Russian, German, English, French and probably Swedish too?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 04:41:47 2017 No.10449142 >>10449135 Why do you spend so much time sucking some weirdo black metal dude's dick?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 05:45:35 2017 No.10449261 >>10447916 >dumb racists Muh multicultural society

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 05:56:08 2017 No.10449278 >>10449096 heehee so frightened, you’re all trembling whenever the inevitability of collapse is pointed out

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 06:15:58 2017 No.10449309

>>10445767
>Ever think of writing Ted?
I would love to but I'm worried about transitioning from "probably been on a watchlist since 15" to "absolutely on a watchlist"
>>10449042
Yeah I watched that recently was surprised how relatively even handed it was. I think they were almost sympathetic to him. They showed how his defence lawyers were rigged and that final montage with him going to jail with the contrast of his life in the woods was nice. Hard to say but irrespective as much as I hate to say it it was a pretty solid series. Netflix is putting out higher quality stuff than Hollyweird (which caters to the Chinese and mouthbreathers these days)

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 06:23:50 2017 No.10449320

>>10449002
>Will it all go to hell before or after I die?
Its going to hell every second of every day. I think it is a situation that you'll likely be insulated from for a long time but slowly it will creep in to your life. A bit like how after 9/11 first there were more cops, then new laws, new cameras, new travel restrictions, new bans and after 20 years you don't even blink when they put concrete blocks on the streets to try jam a truck that some guy hijacked to try run you over. Declines are mostly slow which is why it is hard to notice for most people who, simply, have immediate priorities. The consequences of these declines can be mitigated indefinitely. Even as the quality of life slips. Its the frog in boiling water basically. Whether there will be a critical moment and the floor falls out I don't know. But you right now are living the high life compared to what you'll be living in 2060.
>As long as I'm dead before it rots, fuck it all.
When you have to pay $2000 for a jar of honey remember it was boomers with this attitude that got you here

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 06:29:05 2017 No.10449332 >>10449320 >When you have to pay $2000 for a jar of honey >not keeping your own bees You guys will never make it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 06:40:26 2017 No.10449346 >>10449320 Life in large cities in the UK is already quite shit. Many have large parts of them that are islamified. The east end of london for example. Well, it just seems everyone apart from the English live there

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 06:45:53 2017 No.10449353

>>10449309
You're right that they tried to make him seem human, which he was, but they also made his philosophy look like some sort of hippie bullshit for tree huggers instead of addressing his social commentaries, but I guess that would attract a ton of backlash.

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 06:51:15 2017 No.10449360

>>10449353
>they also made his philosophy look like some sort of hippie bullshit for tree huggers instead of addressing his social commentaries
The show even addressed the fact that his work might resonate with people and become dangerous. I guess some parts were worth focusing on more than others but as they acknowledged themselves, it is still very dangerous.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 07:03:37 2017 No.10449376 >>10445848 Yes

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 08:22:45 2017 No.10449500 >>10449042 Really? I thought he came across as way more human than he is in real life.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 14:19:25 2017 No.10450511 >>10449500 I remember that the way he talked made him seem like an edgeymemster, not the things he was saying, just the delivery of the lines from the actor.

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 14:23:10 2017 No.10450524

>>10443174
>The vast majority of newspaper readers didn't read the manifesto, it was too long and complicated. At best he reached a similar demographic that would have been subjected to his views trough academia
Except lots of casuals today have read it because of the internet. Like 100% of /pol/ for example, people post about it / post excerpts from it all the time.
And I'm pretty sure even outside of 4chan lots of people have gotten curious and read it through the convenience of the modern public internet in a way no one would think to for some other work that wasn't associated with the Unabomber.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 14:45:43 2017 No.10450630 >>10441617 Where 2 cop?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 15:29:02 2017 No.10450782 File: 60 KB, 1920x1090, 1514011106878.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10449278

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 15:40:00 2017 No.10450825 >>10441714 his sin was to be a world-improver you can be right about everything but people won't listen to you no matter what let people drown in their own pool of filth

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 15:42:54 2017 No.10450837 File: 92 KB, 1080x1043, aeefvaaz9iuz.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10450825

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 15:44:28 2017 No.10450847

>>10450825
also this Nietzsche described it

"Active men are usually lacking in higher activity-I mean individual activity. They are active as officials, businessmen, scholars, that is, as generic beings, but not as quite particular, single and unique men. In this respect they are lazy.
It is the misfortune of active men that their activity is almost always a bit irrational. For example, one must not inquire of the money-gathering banker what the purpose for his restless activity is: it is irrational. Active people roll like a stone, conforming to the stupidity of mechanics.
Today as always, men fall into two groups: slaves and free men. Whoever does not have two-thirds of his day for himself, is a slave, whatever he may be: a statesman, a businessman, an official, or a scholar."

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 16:28:07 2017 No.10450977 >>10450847 >working hard and being dilligent is for pussies

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 16:31:19 2017 No.10450994 >>10450977 You're not a pussy - you're a brainlet. Maybe start with high school literature if you can't comprehend basic nietzsche.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 16:59:54 2017 No.10451096 File: 289 KB, 1024x1008, 1503082461995.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10450977 >You can't work for yourself. I feel bad for you, all you know of production is intended for another.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 17:07:51 2017 No.10451119 >>10450977 >>10451096 this isnt old freddy's dichotomy and you should both feel bad

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 17:17:45 2017 No.10451152 >>10441714 This, he should have just stayed a Uni professor, he could have made big bucks, and promoted his ideas easily with that prominent of a position.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 17:19:58 2017 No.10451159 File: 18 KB, 200x337, Technological Society.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10442569 This book needs to be meme'd more

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 17:20:36 2017 No.10451162 >>10451119 Don't touch me you filthy moralist, I'm expressing the Will to Power.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 18:29:20 2017 No.10451425 Will reading this make me depressed and eventually drive me crazy. I'm a STEM student

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 18:41:50 2017 No.10451480 >>10451425 I know software engineers who are fans of Ted so don't worry economic necessity and cognitive dissonance will keep you in your lane

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 18:59:35 2017 No.10451573

>>10451480
>economic necessity and cognitive dissonance will keep you in your lane
Not that anon, but this is some harsh truth anon, I'm a bit offended that you're right

>tfw at heart I want revolutionary change but by body stays wagecuck and business as usual

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 19:42:39 2017 No.10451763

>>10451573
>tfw at heart I want revolutionary change but by body stays wagecuck and business as usual
Of course that is how the system, any system actually, maintains power. It provides more incentives to support it practically irrespective of what you may feel intuitively, emotionally etc. Revolutionaries are losers. Chad doesn't have an incentive to rebel, he's at the top. As the Internationale says "we who have been naught we shall be all." In Kaczynski a man who should have been satisfied with the system economically, given his status as a Harvard grad and UCLA lecturer, was not satisfied socially. He had a very poor social life and so found himself on the fringes of society. Looking at the world from the outside in gave him a perspective that led to his radicalism. If you look at /pol/ at least pre-reddit invasion in 2015 you would have consistently found middle class white kids who could comfortably become engineers but were hopelessly alienated. Losers are the raw material of revolution. Modernity alienates, capitalism alienates, even our car-centric streets alienate the architecture alienates etc etc.

The solution is not communism or fascism or some other industrial era ideology. We live in a post-industrial society where alienation not exploitation is the primary concern. So when you feel like being a revolutionary but remember your rent, don't forget that its all part of a carrot and stick ploy that is as old as man.

I'm not telling you to quit your job and live in the woods. I could outline my own personal revolutionary vision (but I won't put in print my own actual involvement or lack thereof). But my advice would be to find ways to play your own game within the system. And to maintain the rage.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 19:46:49 2017 No.10451791 >>10445411 No I was offered it free for review and I would get it physical.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 19:50:11 2017 No.10451806 >>10451763 Young males lacking reproductive chances are indeed the raw material of revolution. It is not all of the picture though, see Peter Turchin.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 19:55:36 2017 No.10451833 File: 20 KB, 300x220, 6F9A8333-E6F3-4911-B7DE-E39ECF235E8E.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10451763 >maintain the rage YES

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 20:00:36 2017 No.10451863

>>10451763
Thanks for the sincere reply, anon, I agree with you.

>I'm not telling you to quit your job and live in the woods. I could outline my own personal revolutionary vision (but I won't put in print my own actual involvement or lack thereof). But my advice would be to find ways to play your own game within the system. And to maintain the rage.
Oh, I get the rage. But I also feel like a hypocrite.

I actually find it hard to do anything that is out of the ordinary, even for myself. My country is going through lots of changes lately and I have friends who are engaged in the political debate. Both people who are mild leftists just protesting over the mayor's house and things like that and anarchists who are into molotov cocktails and don't support left politicians either. But I never went to any of those because I'm too anxious to leave the house. Hell, even facebook ranting is something I cannot do even though I have stuff to say. I think this is one of the reasons I come to 4chan, to vent and perhaps call someone a faggot without the consequential connetion to my name.

The way I understand it, it's not that I'm a special snowflake with depression. I know other people who are like this, I think it's a product of our times and has to do with the alienation you said so earlier yourself. I live in a good apartment paid by my parents, even though I work and have my own salary. Quite often I waste my salary on weed and fast food.

I want 2018 to be a year in which I can break this ice and at the very least speak my mind in spite of my fear of backlash and accept invitations from others to engage, if not in protests, at least in discussion groups. Anyway, things that would actually take me out of the bubble and into an active political life.

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 20:17:15 2017 No.10451935

>>10451863
>Quite often I waste my salary on weed and fast food.
Please don't ever do any of those things. If you insist on weed you could at least understand it https://libcom.org/files/Approaches%20-%20Drugs%20and%20Ecstatic%20Intoxication%20-%20Ernst%20Junger_1.pdf

My personal gripe with weed is that it is a depressant. Weed causes lethargic activity. It is not a coincidence that the state is cracking down on tobacco, a drug that causes focus and imagination as well as being social, but is simultaneously relaxing or in some cases encouraging weed. Think about it.

>I want 2018 to be a year in which I can break this ice and at the very least speak my mind in spite of my fear of backlash and accept invitations from others to engage, if not in protests, at least in discussion groups. Anyway, things that would actually take me out of the bubble and into an active political life.
I don't know your country or situation so I can't comment on what you should do there. But broadly speaking there is state infrastructure. Electricity, roads, water etc. Then there is cultural infrastructure, advertising and public "art." There is little value in just being an opinionated loud mouth. I'm glad I learned to shut up when I did, before I was an adult. You need to pick your battles too. There is nothing more exhilarating than hearing police sirens and knowing they are coming for you. But to be stupid and caught over something that doesn't achieve a symbolic or political goal is pointless. Make a plan, know your goals and always have a way out. Importantly don't sperg out. Stay calm and reserved but when you have to act do it efficiently and without emotion.

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 20:49:25 2017 No.10452063

>>10451935
I think weed has a dual quality to it. I'm thankful for what it has given me, it's not a lie that it opens ones mind up creatively to a certain point. I also think it can make anxiety issues worse. I've been in and out of weed several times for the past 8 years. Today I smoke daily, though I'm not high for the past few days since I'm visiting my parents for the holidays and I feel alright. But when my routine starts, all I want is a joint at the end of the day and to watch youtube videos on whatever (I know, spoken like a true wageslave).

Eventually I'll quit weed. I think I might do it soon. I'll read your link, thank you.

About your second paragraph, I agree and I'm a very down to earth person, I don't follow fads too easily and I'm too terrified of the police to join a revolutionary army or something. I heard of a group in my town of psychoanalysts that work for free and in public, including with homeless people and it's open for others to help out. I think I'll join them, it's that sort of political engagement.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 22:40:13 2017 No.10452534 >>10449346 This is the sort of thing that fucks with me the most. Ad I'm not even Euro.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 22:43:12 2017 No.10452544 >>10451935 weed stimulates creativity and strong sativas don’t induce lethargy. they induce manic behavior, bordering on psychosis which is why normal fags avoid them

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 22:49:01 2017 No.10452565 >>10452544 How does that translate in practical terms? What is manic behaviour and psychosis?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 22:51:19 2017 No.10452576 >>10452544 >normal fags avoid dude we'd are you kidding me

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 22:52:02 2017 No.10452579

>>10452565
frantic activity for prolonged periods of time with exaggerated mood swings and emotional thinking.

disoriented thinking, disassociation from the body and time, hallucinations, extreme anxiety, insomnia, heightened libido and aggression

are you disputing the state effects cannabis sativa sativa or the existence of such disordered behavior?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 22:53:37 2017 No.10452588 >>10452576 i would strongly argue that indica and hybrids are the vast majority of strains consumed by neurotypicals and that sativa is favored by creatives, psychotics and mystics over the others because of its manic-hallucinatory-activating effects

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 22:57:12 2017 No.10452609 >>10452565 both are positive feedback loops that spiral out of control and lead to mental illness, one for correlative association and the other for paranoia in "plain" terms are you esl, to have never seen either term before?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 23:03:17 2017 No.10452647 >>10452588 Oh right i didn't realise the distinction you were making. Yes I agree then

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 23:07:28 2017 No.10452662 >>10442892 >Caspian Sea Arab Sea but your point stands.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 23:08:00 2017 No.10452666 >>10443684 How is phosphate loss a problem? Even if all easily recoverable supplies were depleted, it would still be possible to process it out of any rock in the Earth's crust. It then becomes a question of energy cost, which shouldn't be an issue.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 23:10:35 2017 No.10452681 >>10452666 >energy not an issue are you retarded? you sound like a greenie that hasnt figured out batteries cost more energy in mining nd construct than they have in lifetime output

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 23:16:20 2017 No.10452707

>>10452579
>are you disputing the state effects cannabis sativa sativa or the existence of such disordered behavior?
Nope. Just asking, really. Thanks.

>>10452609
English is my second language but I've seen the terms before, I'm just never sure I know what they mean exactly or if people that talk about it know what they mean. So I asked.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 26 23:16:23 2017 No.10452708 >>10452681 I'm no greenie, I'm pro fossil fuels and nuclear. We have hundreds of years of fossil fuels and almost unlimited years of nuclear energy remaining.

Anonymous Tue Dec 26 23:20:01 2017 No.10452722

>>10452708
>We have hundreds of years of fossil fuels and almost unlimited years of nuclear energy remaining.
You have 30 years until the ocean acidification makes the ocean sterile (except for maybe jelly fish and some octopuses). As for the depletion of arable agricultural land thats another ticking time bomb. But yeah keep triggering le libtards with your hard headed no nonsense approach to creating a filthy and sterile earth

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 00:26:05 2017 No.10452979

>>10452707
ah. sorry for being rude then. I'd have legitimately believed a native could have no idea of the meaning from lit's average intelligence

>>10452708
I am not a climate change nut (save da trees eat vegan chipotle hurr durr) but there is absolutely no possibility that returning all of that carbon to the biosphere has no ill (or neutral) effect

if even half of it is released into the biosphere both plants and insects are going to increase in volume and individual mass proportional to the ^2 of carbon content

the entire history of the earth has been the reduction of carbon content in the atmosphere

nuclear proliferation itself is a problem

you're going to give technology that can destroy entire continents to people that cant manage to do arithmetic or build plumbing?

bad idea, dude

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 00:47:23 2017 No.10453043

>>10441617
So everyone who like this whacko just wants to live like a precolonial African with all the perks that come with it
>slavery
>warlords
>30 year life expectancy
>starvation
>epidemics and wild animals culling the population

It's a retarded pipe dream, at most, but most easily classified as insanity and a failure to understand the way humanity ticks and works on the most basic and primal level. Have fun being a Mexican Cartel

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 00:50:16 2017 No.10453053 >>10453043 Mexican Cartel slave*

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 01:00:21 2017 No.10453083 >>10453053 >21st century slave trade is more brutal, untouchable and efficient than at any point in human history due to techno-capitalism and out of control organized crime syndicates lol but yeah you sud be afraid of 15th century african war lords

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 01:12:05 2017 No.10453134

>>10453083
I like how you missed my point so utterly and completely yet still found a way to say something that reinforces it. Yeah, slavery now is the absolute worst it has ever been. How will you deal with it when you don't have the means to defend yourself?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 02:14:19 2017 No.10453340 >>10451863 Political activity is a meme. Read Ellul’s Propaganda.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 02:30:56 2017 No.10453398 >>10453043 Try actually reading the thread

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 02:40:01 2017 No.10453419

>>10453134
>thinks i missed his point
>ignores that slaves could run away and become warriors and land owners by earning favor
>doesn’t realize the implications of totally occulted slave trading networks sponsored by trillionaire drug syndicates
you’re a special kind of slow anon.

would you rather be marked for death, literally with an RFID chip and also castrated, kept in a freezer drawer and eaten by a BTC millionaire in macqua OR would you rather be some warlords thrall who serves as front line cannon fodder, kills many foes for his liege and then gets freedom, wife and land?

The first is never escaping, they’re dead already. The second has a chance, many different opportunities, to escape or sieze control of the relationship. Mind you Nat Turner raised a slave plantation to the ground, do you think bio-engineered chimera slaves for sick fucking trillionaire heirs can escape ever?

Its really your choice, whatever is more attractive to you.

For me, tribal warfare and slave uprisings

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 02:42:57 2017 No.10453428

>>10450524
/pol/’s motivation probably come from Breivik & co. and the general ideological contrarianism of the place than the association with Unabomber.
With ideas like these you really need to go after the intellectual elite (inb4 /pol/) instead of the normies and the only real way to do it is through academia. Otherwise you don’t have any staying power. Without an intellectual tradition it’s not possible for ideas to survive long enough to make any real impact.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 02:43:42 2017 No.10453433 >>10453419 You are insane, there's no arguing with you

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 02:46:24 2017 No.10453438 >>10453043 I'd preffer the Eurasian Steppe or ancient Ireland but the sentiment is the same

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 02:56:40 2017 No.10453468 >>10452534 Yeah, it is as unnatural as many of the environmental issues that we face. If you import the third world, you become the third world.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 02:59:03 2017 No.10453477 >>10453340 Marxism infiltrated the educational institutions of nations to gain a foothold, and then they said that they got power by political activism and protesting.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 03:03:05 2017 No.10453491 >>10453468 do you think many people recognise derbyshire? he used to type a bunch of catchy things like that but I've never seen them repeated even saying nigger just one year ago got you banned on lit

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 03:08:23 2017 No.10453510 >>10453433 lol you’re weak there’s no point in arguing with you

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 03:10:40 2017 No.10453515 >>10448771 what can i read for more of this?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 03:12:05 2017 No.10453517 >>10453477 Exactly, academia is extremely effective at disseminating ideology to the elites. Much more so than manifestos in newspapers.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 03:25:28 2017 No.10453545

>>10453477
>>10453517
Ted left UCLA after coming into contact with the 60s radicals. They were hostile to him and he was to them as well. People don't seem to know the first bit of ISAIF is about leftism. If he was at all compatible with academia (which is a competitive circle jerk) he would have fallen in with the ineffectual eco-left of Berkeley

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 03:27:05 2017 No.10453549 File: 8 KB, 493x402, 1315037471971.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10453419

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 03:31:49 2017 No.10453556 >>10453545 There were other universities. His main issue was being a sperg.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 03:34:42 2017 No.10453561 >>10453556 >His main issue was being a sperg. can relate

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 03:49:21 2017 No.10453590 >>10451159 Agreed, he is criminally underrated.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 07:22:08 2017 No.10453973

>>10453043
No.
I think our society will crash itself. There's really no happy ending to it. It could be a slow decline, it could be fast and nasty, or distributed decline, whatever. Water wars and climate change rendering certain regions inhospitable could happen in the upcoming years. And there's more.

Your view is black and white. As if civilization is necessary for non-slavery, as if there's no starvation in civilization, as if epidemics ever were a thing with smaller scale societies etc. The 30 year life expectancy has been debunked for many times too. Childhood morality was damn high.

Ted isn't an primitivist, he is anti-civ. The hunter-gatherer life is romanticised: it comes with its own ills. But right now civilization is being romanticised and people still believe in linear progress.

And Mexican Cartels are a result of a technological society, they need the state and consumers of drugs.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 08:05:18 2017 No.10454084 >>10453973 The entire purpose of mankind is civilization, we might as well all fucking die if we're going to give it up for all I care. And in the end we will do so anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 08:19:05 2017 No.10454117 >>10454084 define civ humans can do fine if they don't have cars, phones, internet, and 90% of people farm technology doesnt even need to be lost. it makes no positive influence in our lives beyond medical

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 08:24:46 2017 No.10454131

>>10454117
>it makes no positive influence in our lives beyond medical
I agree not dying from stepping on a nail is great. But there have been a lot of weird flow on effects from modern medicine. Overpopulation for one, the ballooning third world, as well as the total suspension of a natural thinning of the herd. People who are basically just genetic detritus last and even reproduce. We're all probably descended from at least one person in the last 100 years who by rights shouldn't have made it. It really explains a lot when you realise dysgenic processes are probably behind the scenes of the last 100 years.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 08:31:53 2017 No.10454143

>>10454131
eugenics literally got discovered 150 years ago. our genome is melting and overpopulation uncontrollable because people are afraid hitler is hiding under every rock on the planet to be meany mean bad things to the eternal justice robo-battlers churchhill-kun and ben gurion-san

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 08:49:56 2017 No.10454172
File: 17 KB, 200x200, terry a davis.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Primitivism is brainlet mode. It's like being anti-Holy Roman Empire, HRE doesn't even fucking exist anymore. Pandora's box is open, there is no society left for you to rebel against. The thing that exists now is an unstoppable machine, so you can either argue within this new paradigm or be an edgy old faggot blowing up random people with letter bombs and dying in a supermax prison.

It's a shame that MK ULTRA turned a brilliant mathematician into doddering old autist shitposting about his noble savage fantasies from behind a concrete wall of alienation and literal prison barriers. I will never forgive you for this, CIA niggers.

This is what happens when you have don't have a foundation of grounded principles. You embrace the absurd, because the alternative is nihilism. Hell, I'd even take christfaggotry over this green garbage, I won't even bother posting what I consider "grounded principles" but it is a sad day on earth that many young people are so dissociated from our civilization that they start taking anprims and edgy terrorist intellectuals seriously. Just pure, unadulterated fury born of directionlessness.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 08:58:00 2017 No.10454203 >>10454131 What do you think medicine dysgenically promoted and how did these people influence society, in a way that they couldn't do as random peasants or burghers?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 09:03:19 2017 No.10454230 >>10453491 Derbyshire the English county? Or something else?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 09:05:33 2017 No.10454243 >>10454172 The problems of modernity are due to the technology we have being misused. Technology is not inherently bad, but we have failed to control it so now it controls us.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 10:24:20 2017 No.10454444 is the environment really that fucked up? is everything really going to die, forever? when?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 10:33:39 2017 No.10454479 >>10454243 nope. technology is bad

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 10:41:12 2017 No.10454514

>>10454444
No, we are not going to die forever. It's not like we are going to wake up one day and in that particular day the earth is a billion degrees and we die. It's a mash of natural disasters and people discussing whether we have or not something to do with it. It's not like New York will wake up under water, it's more like some houses will crumble next to the coast, prices will change, each city will have a way to deal with it and so on. It's not like all the food will be gone, it's just going to be more expensive to get better food and it will be better for you to just take the shitty food with highers and higher levels of poison, plastic and cancer. People will get used to the shitty life they have and they will compensate, just like we sit in our asses all day and go walk on the treadmill at the end of the day. But much much worse than that. When you feel kind of shitty in a big city, it's impossible to measure how much of that is your life situation and how much is the smoke making you physically and unconsciously uncomfortable. The ecological end of earth will be extremely profitable to some. I believe we are going to be living in a something which is, to us, a living hell, but it will be normalized. It is indefinite to how worse it can get. The bad news is precisely that things will go on.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 10:43:08 2017 No.10454525 >>10441617 >his writing is available online Kek

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 10:45:23 2017 No.10454537 >>10454172 Do we really have to blame everything on the cia and mkultra? It instantly kills your argument. Why do it?

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 10:46:18 2017 No.10454539

>>10454444
>is it really that fucked
YES YOU FUCKING IDIOT YES
>are all the organisms going to die
yes, extremely unpleasant deaths
>forever
humans and their ecological analogues will for hundreds of millions of years
>when
we have 50-300 years before ecocide, population decline among phytoplankton, coral reef loss, rainforest loss, methan release, ocean acidification every horrible systematic meltdown is accellerating every few years. nutritionally depleted soil, totally extinct keystone species like pollinators and oxygen producers. its all coming nigger please don’t buy into the alex jones shit. this is the one thing that is very fucking real. pollution, dysgenics and ecosystem collapse are all real. we’re gaining velocity towards and on course for impact with a lake of fire. hell is coming here, and until it gets here corps will privatize, states will create tighter security systems, global psychosis and greed will increase, race relations and class consciousness will become exacerbated, we’re trying to bring artificial life into the picture at the same time and genetically engineer a new species. its complete chaos and will end horribly.

YES we are fucked

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 10:48:35 2017 No.10454549 >>10454479 Technology is just elemental forces harnessed for an objective, there is nothing inherently bad about it. To put the blame on technology wrong, when the blame lies with the goals and morals of the people that created it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 10:51:56 2017 No.10454563 >>10454549 nope that’s not what techne is

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 10:53:10 2017 No.10454570 >>10454539 Baby's first existential enviromental crisis. Wah wah. Why are Americans so hyperbolic?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 10:55:42 2017 No.10454581 >>10454563 It is just a tool that can be put to use. If our society was different and "the powers that be" weren't who they were, then it would be far different. The powers that be have sent us down this path and will continue to do so.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 10:59:40 2017 No.10454597

One thing worth noticing is that the ecological end of the world is not a sign of our impotence, it's a sign of our potence.

Nature is series of disasters in itself, it's not "balanced",but major changes depends on things not coming back, just like a natural dam can break and create a huge lake. There are several cycles going on, a forest is a desperate place for all creatures, but there is an abundance of death and an abundance of life and things are renewed constantly.

What we are doing is creating bottle necks in which things change one way, but do not get back properly. Monoculture is creating deserts everywhere and it gets harder and harder for that soil to produce life.

The problem is poltical and economical and it has to do with alienation. Because the "solutions" you usually see is recycle, reduce, etc, but they are not war-like stances against climate change. Electric cars are created not to avoid climate change, but so that we can envision a continuity for our cars after oil. As another anon said somewhere itt, we have to decide in favour of something what we don't want for ourselves. No democracy will ever do it and no authoritarian govmt will do it either.

If we wanted, we could join forces and plant whole forests. What we should be doing is not "preserve the environment", we should actively change it for the better. Fuck the Sahara, let's create a new Amazon there. Let's create a strategy to make the artic colder. We need to think the whole world as an artificial landscape that we chose for ourselves and that we could choose to be something else.

None of that will happen though, because capitalism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 11:01:06 2017 No.10454601 >>10454563 When you realise that the modern man is so far fallen, and so devoid of any higher goal or tradition, then you will realise that technology is a small problem in comparison to the other problems man faces.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 11:02:15 2017 No.10454608 >>10454570 >babby unironically >americans lol yuro reptile >>10454581 no itsnot just a tool you’re blind >>10454597 t. grasping utopian socialist parasite

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 11:02:51 2017 No.10454610

>>10454549
I agree with the first part, but not the second. To harness forces for an objective is in itself bad. If you gave a lion a turbo button, he would get all the gazelles and it will feel great until there are no gazelles and he would die. This is what we are doing to ourselves. The lion should instead enjoy the effort and accept that sometimes you get the gazelle, sometimes you don't and either way, both will eventually die. The lion should just sit in meditation and drop the turbo button.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 11:03:48 2017 No.10454613 >>10454597 You are only understanding half the picture

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 11:18:55 2017 No.10454685

>>10454610
But all those problems are not problems that a virtuous human society should face. The lion is an animal, with no concept of any higher being or virtue. Man has an animalistic part of the soul that requires the petty needs of food, shelter and reproduction, but he is not entirely anmodern animal.
A good and noble society would rise above their impulsive and selfish animalistic nature and desire to fulfil the small and unimportant pleasures. But the modern man is selfish, weak and greedy. Much like the leaders and powers that be in our society today, they are only motivated by profit. The point I am trying to argue is argued by many others such as Nietzsche ,Guenon, Plato, Evola etc

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 11:23:00 2017 No.10454698 File: 239 KB, 1173x882, 1499767165043.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10453515 That's my own thoughts via Zizek, Adorno and my understanding of Daoism and Buddhism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 11:25:05 2017 No.10454713 >>10454685 Guenon and Evola are hacks whose reputation came from rehashing other people’s idea. please don’t ever mention them in the same sentence as N or Plato

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 11:28:07 2017 No.10454730

>>10454685
I agree, but I don't think the sequence of events is
>I have a goal
>I use technology to get it or not
Technology itself produces the goal. Technology itself hides these questions from ourselves.

15 years ago my parents were telling me not to sit to close to the tv. Now neither me or them or everyone I know can take their eyes away from the screen. It's how we work, how we have fun, it has produced new values. No one is asking now if this is what we want or need. There is just a bunch of soyboy startup companies creating new apps instead and heading towards the future, unfortunately.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 11:43:28 2017 No.10454791 File: 125 KB, 849x1052, 1483483257733.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10454685 >dood just think of the bigger picture!!!!1 I already am, you crypto-hippie. Which is precisely why I reject all gross conceptions such as yours.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 11:53:09 2017 No.10454834
File: 2.57 MB, 400x224, the future.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10454730
>15 years ago my parents were telling me not to sit to close to the tv. Now neither me or them or everyone I know can take their eyes away from the screen.
That is nothing. Even this is nothing. Soon we'll have ways to copy memory, input sensible experiences directly, control bodies remotely, etc.

Our population problem will be fixed by people not bothering to live their lives.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 12:18:55 2017 No.10454919 What a pleasure this thread has been to read.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 12:30:24 2017 No.10454961 >>10454539 Clathrate gun hypothesis has been shown to be unaccurate as far as I know

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 12:30:44 2017 No.10454965

>>10453491
Yeah, I had to stop by Heathrow airport on my way somewhere, (don't remember where I was going to) and I was baffled by the sheer amount of sand-niggers and Indians working in that place.

I counted all the white staff members since they were so rare to see in the first place.

Went to Frankfurt once, fucking thing is a melting pot of sand-niggers too, absolutely disgusting.
You can't hope to have an European experience anymore.

The things I grew up wanting to see and experience no longer exist.
The Eiffel tower will always be there, but the accompanying background has completely changed.

Does "I'm traveling to France" mean what you picture in your mind? The answer is no. Not anymore.
I'm done with my Euro traveling for good.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 12:38:25 2017 No.10454995 >>10454965 > time exists Wow

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 12:59:16 2017 No.10455093 >>10454995 Fuck off globalist. Get the point.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 13:00:34 2017 No.10455102 >>10442387 i'm too much of a brainlet for Ellul. I don't get what technique is

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 13:04:41 2017 No.10455115 >>10455093 /lit/ is supposed to be a resentment-free zone

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 13:19:46 2017 No.10455174

>>10454537
kaczynski was literally a subject of abuse at harvard by the hands of the faculty (led by henry murray) in collusion with the government in a series of controversial experiments, this is public knowledge and not controversial at all, check his wiki. this was ultimately a factor in his disillusionment with his academic career, and if things had gone differently maybe he wouldn't have decided to fucking bomb people lol.

of course my post was a bit facetious/inflammatory, but really, taking ted's bait is so blackpilled it might as well turn your brain into a black hole. what he advocates is metaphorical suicide.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 13:23:32 2017 No.10455185 >>10454961 lol then all the rest is still relevant

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 13:32:52 2017 No.10455206 >>10455115 I'm a man, abstract rules don't apply to me. This is the internet, where we were all supposed to be free. The wild west. What the fuck happened?

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 13:35:37 2017 No.10455217

>>10455206
they are not from here and they don’t share this domain’s values, they are from social media and universities, they are over socialized and psychiatric minded, left leaning, social parasites. the idea is to bait you into acting how they want and then tag you as insane or aggressive so you can be deplatformed. that’s the left’s prime strategy for killing discourse.
>you don’t understand civilization
>you don’t understand women
>you don’t understand oppression/raycism
then deplatformed or tagged as evil and now you’re done talking to them

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 13:39:28 2017 No.10455224

>>10442522
It's readily available online for free.

I say yes read it.

ISAIF isn't that deep or ironclad, but it's a great introduction to anti-tech, and it's some of the only anti-tech you'll readily find that isn't written by some anprim.

The juicier parts are in the other writings. Ted tearing apart anprim wishful thinking on the subject of labor, luxury, idpol, etc. is awesome.

Like all the anons said, Ellul is the place to go, but I think TechSlav is actually pretty solid if you can get past the fact that ISAIF is at best a primer/introduction to a wider world of thought and leave it at that.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 13:45:33 2017 No.10455249
File: 28 KB, 1325x164, 1503258867575.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10455217
Wait, I thought the Left's strategy was to corrupt our white heritage and spread sexual decadence, when did ((((they)))) become the ones saying other people have cooties?

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 13:46:33 2017 No.10455255

>>10455217
Day by day I just get sadder with the way things are going.

Lately I've been thinking, how could a single, simple man change something?

I often day-dream about how I, someone, something would come along and rally the people, show them the truth and actually fight back against the entire system.

Take down the Jews, address the mega corps, everything.

It's ridiculous really, but am I the only one who has these silly dreams?

And on a serious note, is there something the small fries like us can do?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 13:53:36 2017 No.10455268 >>10455217 >everyone I don't like is a CIA leftist uni soyboy vat grown psyop nigger assassin >and they're trying to make us look bad! wew

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 13:53:40 2017 No.10455269 >>10454713 Why are they hacks? I can understand evola but why guenon?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 13:55:36 2017 No.10455279 >>10455115 >>10454995 >time exists Ah yes and that completely excuses the replacement and destruction of native cultures in their own countries. If you had to live in Newham in the east end you'd be against it too

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 13:59:56 2017 No.10455297

>>10455255
First you should start by improving yourself and focusing on yourself by improving your health, your social life etc.
If you haven't read evola you should read his works too. But in the end, I don't really think there's much an individual can do. But many european countries have several groups, and the US has the alt right. However, Britain has nothing. Britain already has very authoritarian laws on what you can and can't say regarding race and more specifically islam

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 14:48:47 2017 No.10455494 >>10455255 Learning how civilization actually works and dropping the anti Semitism would be a great start.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 14:53:24 2017 No.10455513 >>10455206 >This is the internet, where we were all supposed to be free. The wild west. This would be funny even if it weren't a thread about ISAIF. Bless your heart.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 15:07:00 2017 No.10455583 >>10455255 You're the best comic in America, Anon. And I love you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 15:09:43 2017 No.10455590 >>10455494 >civilisation works by using mass immigration to import cheap labour and destroy national identity to make the populace easily controlled

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 15:45:37 2017 No.10455718 >>10455590 "National identity" is itself a phantom of civilization. Its subsumption by liberal metropolitanism is not its negation, but mere development.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 15:56:46 2017 No.10455751 >>10454713 Guenon rehashing others ideas. Yeah buddy. Maybe try reading books before posting. Why do people even post about stuff they've never read? Evola isn't really interesting, that I admit.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 16:01:18 2017 No.10455767

>>10455174
So basically whenever you read that the CIA ate at the same breakfast joint than some random author, it automatically discredit this person. Basically what the CIA wants. Lmao. And no Kaczynski doesn't not advocate for metaphorical suicide. It's the complete opposite, and reading ISAIF paradoxically freed me of negative thoughts. Because when there isn't any hope for the course of history, you alter it yourself. It's basically Nietzsche.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 16:05:49 2017 No.10455784 >>10454834 This guy gets it. Technology will do away with human reproduction in a few generations.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 16:08:01 2017 No.10455794 >>10454965 You sound like a person who gets massively aroused by black people.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 16:18:46 2017 No.10455834 >>10455794 No it's just that London is a non-English shithole

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 16:19:54 2017 No.10455836

>>10455102
Technique is the totality of methods rationally arrived at and having absolute efficiency (for a given stage of development) in every field of human activity.
It is not just the machines, it is also the collection of attitudes and traditions determining the use of technology, the ideology that makes efficiency a necessity.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 16:37:11 2017 No.10455912 >>10455102 https://ellul.org/themes/ellul-and-technique/

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 16:41:29 2017 No.10455932

>>10455268
that’s not what any of that means its a desciption of a pattern of socio-political pathology that’s engineered over decades through culture industry programming, social incentives, language viruses, memetic warfare and abuse of social epistasis. you’re only proving my point by trying to imply in unhinged or not lucid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 16:43:14 2017 No.10455940 >>10455932 I'm trying to imply that you're clueless or dishonest actually

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 16:54:10 2017 No.10455994

>>10455940
>clueless
no, i know exactly what im talking about. social-signalling to other people to discredit your interlocutor so you can abdicate responsibility for dealing with opposing views
>dishonest
no i’ve spent years trying to dialogue with the left and right, the left is schizophrenic and neurotic; the right is psychopathic and paranoid.

The way you, leftists, talk is basically designed around ideology and protecting groups who have status, or who give you status by your being their allies. Jews, women, blacks and gays. Technology is essential to women and homosexuals survival, they lose all their power without it. Blacks require a massive welfare state, constant donations of sympathy and pandering to be kept from rioting and burning down civilization. So, you appeal to them, in conversation if you are confronted by people who’s interests don’t align with theirs you try to label them insane or evil. Jews, you try to obfuscate and call whyte or ignore the degeneracy and greed that they spread. The archetype of the liscivious female who tries to accrue wealth for herself in the big city, who doesn’t need a man to survive, who relies on corporate entities and institutes like unis and planned parenthood to function, this is a culturally jewish creation. Jewish upperclass women and their counterparts in late WASP culture engineered this.

You don’t know how to think. You don’t like associating different phenomena together. black violence and black iq; jewish greed and jewish lying; homosexual disease and homosexual psychosis none of these things line up in your head because its socially, energetically inconvenient for you.

Your survival strategy dictates you Have to always defend techne, women, jews, blacks and gays. You are bound to their interests because you yourself could not survive outside that kind of system.

Right wingers whole shtick is unexamined first principles like race and power. But, we’re not talking about them.

Liberals and the left now culturally share the same basic ideas as fundamental to society, or the society they want. Usage of cheap, deracinated language, passive-aggressive communication, ressentiment, social violence, group think, consumerist media consumption habits, hyper simplified rhetoric that relies on talismanic phrases like racist or bigot or sexist or virgin or babby or any other mammy-state psychiatric terms you want to try to diagnose your opponents with.

Its a form of pathology, a cultural-memetic disease that’s eating away at the minds of the feminized whyte masses and their hispanic-asiatic analogues. Blacks do not accept these values at their core and are themselves a very reactionary race. Which is why they vote against their own interests over and over and fucked bernie in the ass despite him being their best chance at demographic survival.

you’re not capable of dealing with reactionaries or apoliticals because reality is political to you for you, speech too

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 16:56:28 2017 No.10456009 >>10455767 That is an insult to Nietzsche.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 17:01:24 2017 No.10456044 >>10455994 >he honestly thinks he is free

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 17:04:19 2017 No.10456063 >>10455994 >The way you, leftists >you’re not capable of dealing with reactionaries or apoliticals because reality is political to you for you, speech too wew

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 17:21:56 2017 No.10456136

>>10455994
>immediately assuming that they are against him
>left/right dichotomy
>basic /pol/ shtick
>american politics
>millennial psychologist
>complains about how people don't know how to think
>complains how people see everything through a political lense

It is kinda sad how blind you are towards your own indoctrination.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 17:23:42 2017 No.10456145 >>10455994 Didn't even read this fag shit lol

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 17:27:51 2017 No.10456155

>>10456063
can't engage
>>10456136
thinks that I'm /pol/

again its like talking with golems piloted by some network intelligence

for the last fucking time, stop talking like idealogues and trying to defend your fucking pets. None of your criticisms stick, I am not from /pol/. I am precisely evaluating the left and liberals' psychotic social tendencies. The constant passive-aggression (note the green text is most of the posts), the ironic detachment, the psychiatric thinking, the inability to even for a second entertain that you're wrong. I know that niggers aren't all bad, I know homos can be creative and wholesome, I know that women can be pure and intelligent. For fuck's sake you won't even grant the decency of hearing out the other position.
>left/right dichotomy
there is a dichotomy, its worth analyzing. Economically I lean left, socially I lean right wing. I'm aware of this and """"self-critique""" it all the time. Do you? Are you aware of the memes you pass off as thoughts, the social behaviors you've wholesale adopted as "choices" or "progressive". If you don't figure out how to dialogue, that's it. We are food for the techno-capitalists

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 17:31:03 2017 No.10456165

>>10456044
what does this mean?

are you implying that its inevitable cultural forces? is this bio-determinism? are you an accelerationist? are you a fatalist? What is this supposed to mean?
>>10456145
then you're exposing yourself as a fucking pseud, you don't have an interest in anything you and your friends can't pass off ass enlightened and you're enamored with social approval. Why didn't you read it? What is wrong with it? Can you defend yourself and your group from these points? If so, can I see your rebuttal? If not, do you have convincing rhetoric for me to ingest that would sway my beliefs away from the positions they're in now? If not, well you're just another npc

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 17:41:05 2017 No.10456195 >>10456165 deflate yourself you fat fucking fedora balloon

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 17:42:23 2017 No.10456199

>>10456155
>again its like talking with golems piloted by some network intelligence

Believe me, it is a mutual feeling. Why do you immediately assume that I am a leftist or share any of their values? You seem like you have been exposed to too much propaganda, everything has become black and white, you project your own idea of the enemy onto anyone who disagrees or criticizes you.
You criticize the psychiatric thinking, yet you yourself diagnose the left schizophrenic and neurotic and the right psychopathic and paranoid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 17:54:36 2017 No.10456246 I kind of wanna send him a letter but I'm paranoid I'll get on some list

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 17:58:22 2017 No.10456263 >>10456155 not that anon, but you need to talk to more people, left and right you don't know everyone, though you think you have figured out what "people want", what "leftists say" etc, but you don't this place is damaging your mind

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 18:02:43 2017 No.10456281

>>10456136
left/right is real

but you need to distinguish

in the 90s there had been the same policy on both sides in terms of legislation. that doesnt mean there is NO categorial or logical distinction

the economic policies of each side generally derive from the social policies of each side. if you cant see that, you're dumb.

>social policy of "fucking leave me alone, I don't give a fuck about your opinion so don't ask for mine to force me to listen to you"
>therefore economic policy of "fucking leave me alone, I didn't ask for anything so don't take from me"
leftism is inherently the belief that people are too dumb to take care of themselves and the belief that YOU are going to force ME to help them

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 18:11:26 2017 No.10456325

>>10456199
ah so you can’t even address a single thing I said
>why is the left neurotic
you all respond to critiques and indictments with petty social media insults, you pearl clutch over harmless racism and sexism, you reflexively defend techne
>>10456246
you will you fucking idiot, don’t
>>10456263
>talk to more people
ive spent 5.5 years talking anon, im very tired
>you need to personally interview everyone
no
>this place
my discourse wasn’t exclusively on this place or through internet channels anon

very tiresome, extremely depressing

good luck 2 u all

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 18:15:17 2017 No.10456341

>>10456165
You believe that you are somewhat free compared to other people, that they don't know how to think, that they cannot escape the political view. Still you hold political opinions and see everyone else through political categories; political stance, race, sex, sexuality, socioeconomic status etc. You might not be from /pol/ but you would fit right in. The ideology and language permeates through your writing. You claim to be neutral, yet you are desperately picking a fight.

You do not seem to understand that you are forced into the discourse and will only serve its purpose.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 18:22:27 2017 No.10456367

>>10456341
>forced into the discourse
no im using useful linguistic devices to cajole my fellow apes into leaving this system. if i just said what i meant you’d all spit in my face. i have to mask every communication attempt with signs and symbols you’re either attracted to or repulsed by. i get no joy from saying ‘nigger’ ‘woman’ ‘reactionary’ ‘leftist’ and would prefer to never have to speak about ‘class’ ‘race’ ‘capital’ ‘techne’ ‘memes’ or ‘gender’

it all is deleterious to my limited patience and sanity which i’ve preserved expressly to attempt to commune with the social hive, more importantly to try to steal a few people away from it at a time.

you’re not revealing anything to me. for this board, you all lean liberal and left, thus the language chosen is appropriate.

the left can be best attacked and described as I did. the mechanisms for control of prog libs (not cons/right libs) and “”””””””leftists””””””” are basically social signalling derived. they rely almost entirely on class-room, office politica, dorm hall, group-think herd behavior. rw’s are a totally different animal, are genetically programmed to be domineering, psychopathic, predatory. you’re not right wingers. i have no need to dance with them at the moment, they’re so stupid they usually harm themselves. the left is being weaponized and needs to he neutralized through deconstructive discourse

that’s my prerogative, does that make sense to you? im completely apolitical.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 18:24:46 2017 No.10456377

>>10456281
>left/right is real

From your writing I can clearly see that that is the case inside your head, BUT it is not wise to force a few millennia of political thought spanning the globe into your narrow dichotomy. It's only ideology, putting all the things in neat little boxes, always knowing what to think about everything.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 18:41:16 2017 No.10456453

>>10456367
Your intentions don't matter, if you partake in the discourse, what you say will be interpreted through it anyways. The "left" will see your writing and either disregard it immediately or fit it in to their own narrative, use it to sculpt out their enemies. The /pol/ack will only see confirmation of his own views. The neutral or "centrist" will merely fall to either side or become increasingly disgusted by the discourse. Escaping and being apolitical only amplifies the dichotomous nature of the discourse and renders you meaningless.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 18:50:24 2017 No.10456501

>>10456377
no. you don't understand.

all of history until roughly the year 1200 or so in britain and 1500 in japan, the ENTIRE history of humanity revolved around "do the thing I tell you, or you die"

the RIGHT descends from the political tradition of "no. leave me alone."

this is a fundamental fork in political ideology. it is not a divided monarchy that invents some religious doctrinal difference for cassius belli. it is fundamentally "leave me alone, FUCK YOU. leave me alone"

the left descends from the tradition in britain that said "no, I'm not gonna leave you alone because of ______________"

in that blank you can put the parliament, the dutch, EVERY dynastic struggle on the planet, healthcare for the poor, racism etc."

only the english and japanese EVER codified into the legal system "leave me alone FUCK YOU, you have no right to fuck me"

this is a fundamental difference

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 18:52:25 2017 No.10456507 >>10456501 >what is ancient greece

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 18:53:27 2017 No.10456512 >>10456501 >the dutch Why the Dutch?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 18:54:39 2017 No.10456519 >>10456501 pre-history had less coercion than any other era though. you can't really force people to do things if they can just pick berries for themselves. it's only since agriculture that the food supply could be controlled by bullies.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 18:59:13 2017 No.10456538 >>10456501 this absolutely retarded beyond return

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:03:54 2017 No.10456553 >>10456501 You don't see how biased you are. Just as the much as the part of the left equate the right with "I fuck you and you have no right to say otherwise", part of the right think the left is just statism. Get out of your bubble anon.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:10:42 2017 No.10456577

>>10456507
the greek tyrranical period rose from the first democratic period

utter collapse descended from the second

>>10456512
just an e.g.

"FUCK YOU I GET TO CONTROL YOU BC OF ________________________________________________________________" can come from any fucking reason. niggers killing niggers 5k miles across the earth is popular these days to control ME, a chink. fucking fabulous

>>10456519
food supply fell to the control of big dudes that have metal because stationary farming needs to be defended from "FUCK YOU I CONTROL YOU FOR THE GOOD OF ____________________" people

>>10456553
the left is literally only statism. the right is infected by statism, here, today. but VERY far right countries such as japan prove that the spectrum is real

totalitarianism comes from teh left guilting people into "FUCK YOU I CONTROL YOU TO HELP__________"

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:19:10 2017 No.10456613

>>10456577
>the left is literally only statism
No, it's not. Those who think that only see a clash between liberal companies and government and don't see any clash between the companies and the people. A lot of leftists don't want more state control, they see the state with as much bad eyes as mega corps. The whole idea of the left is exactly on how the fuck do we get rid of hierarchies after the realization that if we had no clear hierarchy (the state), we would still have hierarchy anyway (due to capital). Yadda yadda no one knows what to do because the people have no power to fight the capitalists, so they say maybe we can create a state that is to our favour and not those in power, but it never worked because power is a great thing to have.

There are many possible positions within the left.

>totalitarianism comes from teh left
What about right wing totalitarianism? Rhetoric question, your opinion is shit and I really don't want to know.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:19:30 2017 No.10456616 >>10456577 >the left is literally only statism. ah yes those famous statist anarchists

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:25:14 2017 No.10456636

>>10456613
>>10456616
>the left claims to be anti-statist, therefore is anti statist
yes, and the soviet union claimed to have lots of food to feed its people. funny.

the ONLY non-market mechanism for dividing goods and allocating commerce is te state. if they oppose freedom from the state (voluntary participation in any setting results in markets, if yuo disagree, then sell me your house for 1$) or they oppose markets in rinciple, then they advocate for the state.

antifa literally gets government grants in major euro cities. they are like libraries

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:30:56 2017 No.10456658 >>10456636 >If I simplify things enough, they all fit in nice boxes This is your brain on reductionism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:30:58 2017 No.10456659 >>10456501 >only the english and japanese EVER codified into the legal system "leave me alone FUCK YOU, you have no right to fuck me" >VERY far right countries such as japan This must be why it's illegal to show genitalia in Japanese pornography.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:33:15 2017 No.10456664
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>>10456577
>totalitarianism comes from teh left guilting people into "FUCK YOU I CONTROL YOU TO HELP__________"
[stares in gestures]

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:34:11 2017 No.10456666 For anybody interested, there will be an updated and expanded biography of Ted Kaczynski posted on /pol/ tomorrow evening / late afternoon.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:35:16 2017 No.10456671 >>10456453 >still worried about social signaling lmao ok anon have a gud life

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:37:07 2017 No.10456677

>>10454597
>What we should be doing is not "preserve the environment", we should actively change it for the better. Fuck the Sahara, let's create a new Amazon there. Let's create a strategy to make the artic colder. We need to think the whole world as an artificial landscape that we chose for ourselves and that we could choose to be something else.
I agree with this sentiment wholeheartly.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:40:09 2017 No.10456695

>>10456501
>only the english and japanese EVER codified into the legal system "leave me alone FUCK YOU, you have no right to fuck me"
>The marital rape exemption was abolished in England and Wales in 1991
>In Japan, almost all perpetrators of marital rape enjoy impunity under the law

wew

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:41:23 2017 No.10456703

>>10454172
>Primitivism
Anti-civ is not necessarily primitivist.
I think the biggest issue is the scale of civilization. Disruptions on the environment are not bad. In fact nature thrives on it.

I think Talebs ideas are useful, even if he would never ever like anti-civ. And anti-civ doesn't necessarily have to be a solution, it can be a critique for another solution.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:43:12 2017 No.10456712

>>10456636
>>10456636
>the left claims to be anti-statist, therefore is anti statist
Actually yeah, that's kind of what I am after here. You should listen more to what other say about themselves instead of just not listening and pretending you know what they are without hearing them.

It serves the left, the right, the statists and the anarchists. It doesn't mean they are what they say they are and that's it, but if you want to talk about stuff with people you have to start from there, or else you are, by definition, making a straw man argument and everytime a leftist may say something to you which would indicate they are not statists, you'd think they are lying and not real leftists.

Instead of thinking what the left is and what the right is, you should listen to how they are not anything in particular except for the variety of complex thoughts and actions that we have grown to associate with them. And that differs from place to place and person to person, naturally, so that if you continue to talk the way you do, it's inevitable that things will appear less and less as they are and more and more as you project them to be, because you do not see as legitimate anything that differs from your definition of them.

Your problem is not so much as your opinion (which is retarded, but can be fixed), but your way to approach debate.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:46:04 2017 No.10456726 >>10456671 No. Discourse is just a technical complex expressly intended to adapt man to the machine

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:46:38 2017 No.10456728 >>10454685 You are speaking from ideology. I prefer to listen to what biology and psychology say. Though maybe what we need is less theorizing and more empiricism.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:47:52 2017 No.10456738

>>10456726
whatever you want anon, we got done discussing things already. im not interested in this language game you want to play
>discourse is all the same
>deconstructivr discourse adapts man to machinic thought
ok anon, whatever helps you grasp things better.

goodbye

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:51:40 2017 No.10456759 >>10456726 Where do you got this from? I'm interested.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:56:20 2017 No.10456778 >>10454601 all the other ones are result of technology.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:58:32 2017 No.10456786 >>10454601 Technology sucks onto our biological prepositions and makes us slaves. Your ideological heritage is showing by the way.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 19:59:34 2017 No.10456791 >>10456759 It is basically Ellul's ideas on media. Look into The Technological Society, Propaganda and The Political Illusion.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 20:00:50 2017 No.10456799 >>10454172 Kaczynski wrote a whole essay refuting anarcho-primitivism. Try again

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 20:07:44 2017 No.10456825 >>10456791 If you want to read more about media I'd recommend Marshall McLuhan

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 20:15:43 2017 No.10456856

>>10456791
I'm not keen of the dogmatic power of theory.
That has driven me away from the left, but since I can't find myself in the right or status quo, I keep coming back. Now I'm interested in postleft anarchism.

Not saying you use those ideas as a dogmatic device by the way. But that's my experience. I'm also interested in certain scientific fields, and from such a standpoint much theory makes no sense. Theory doesn't have to be correct to be useful, but when it is used dogmatically it becomes a kind of false-truth.

I'm trying to figure out how Stirner can be reconciled with sciencific findings. I guess you need to create an environment were any sacred cow and taboo can be challenged, and be in constant skepticism. Sometimes I think it follows from human nature that dogma emerges, like an ideological equilibrium, but Stirnerites seem to insist there's no human nature, so.

I guess we also need to have a mindset of flux, like certain cultures have, in which nothing is really settled and all ever changing.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 20:24:43 2017 No.10456894

>>10456759
Discourse is a rigmarole, it only serves to amplify the ideologies of its participants or neuter them completely. Man needs myths and explanatory systems to withstand irrationally increasing mechanization and technological organization.

>>10456791 is right, this is heavily influenced by Ellul.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 20:27:20 2017 No.10456905 >>10456856 The answer is to be critical, in the original sense of the word. Skepticism is easy and must not be allowed.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 20:29:32 2017 No.10456909 >>10456825 McLuhan is also worth looking into.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 20:30:19 2017 No.10456913

>>10456856
>I'm trying to figure out how Stirner can be reconciled with sciencific findings.
What's there to reconcile?

>Sometimes I think it follows from human nature that dogma emerges, like an ideological equilibrium, but Stirnerites seem to insist there's no human nature, so.
From there being no human nature doesn't follow that you can safely go on without dogma; just like you're not prohibited to jump from a fifth floor, and it's true that you won't break your neck, for a time. Your problem might not be inherent to these issues but in your methodology, since you might be trying to fix things from an outside perspective.

And Stirner never said people were evil for being ideologically possessed. Only that he personally thought any attempt at freedom, even if it's a failed one, worthy.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 20:37:25 2017 No.10456929

>>10456913
>What's there to reconcile?
Human behaviour really. Or in case of the anarchist project, systems science.
>>10456913
>From there being no human nature doesn't follow that you can safely go on without dogma; just like you're not prohibited to jump from a fifth floor, and it's true that you won't break your neck, for a time. Your problem might not be inherent to these issues but in your methodology, since you might be trying to fix things from an outside perspective.
>And Stirner never said people were evil for being ideologically possessed. Only that he personally thought any attempt at freedom, even if it's a failed one, worthy.
That puts it into perspective for me thanks.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 20:49:45 2017 No.10456971

>>10456929
>What's there to reconcile?
And it is not just that. I'm reading about Indian thought and anthropological studies on thought. I use it as inspiration, not to appropriate it, like New Age people. And some of their thought comes closer to what biology says, and what our culture gets wrong. I'm not sure of the significance of cultural thought on behaviour however, maybe it is not that necessary. For example, our culture thinks in terms of linear progress while otherss think in terms of cycles.

Related to this thread. Some people think that the environment can be saved if we just 'think differently' and 'reconnect with nature'. But I'm not sure, at all. I prefer more practical approaches, but I'm still very much informed by practice by what I read.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 20:54:53 2017 No.10456990
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>>10456894
What we need is not myth or explanation but precisely what was lost from myth to give form to something that is not myth. Material culture nowadays falls almost squarely into one of three categories: spectacular-communal, ascetic-educative, moral-laboral. In traditional societies the second component often fell together (labor was communal and the community was educational), but it was less the case with the first components to fall together. The problem of our times is not a lack of a monomyth or some such: concensus is easy to get, and not because the media controls your mind: put your finger on the nuke button, and see what happens; connections aren't a problem either as the market loves them to death almost as much as it loves to exploit niches.

What we need is "post-art", not in the sense of the rejection of art, but in the sense of appropriating the domain of art without being art nor being what we think is non-art (that is, art that failed to be art) -- in short, something that paradigmatically changes the means of aesthetic, non-empiric knowledge.

>>10456929
>Human behaviour really.
So it's more a matter of why than how, then?

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 21:02:35 2017 No.10457007

>>10456990
>So it's more a matter of why than how, then?
Why questions seem almost useless. How is the most important. I'm more interested in when the how is not possible. Clearly we do not need science to know that we cannot fly, but in other circumstances I'm not sure.

But scientific theory has its own dangers. Basically: what works in theory doesn't work in practice. Nassim Taleb shows this well, but even he relies heavily on scientific findings.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 21:08:01 2017 No.10457035
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>>10456971
>For example, our culture thinks in terms of linear progress while otherss think in terms of cycles.
Yes, that isn't some accident, it was deliberate. The "mistake" of materialism was deliberate as well. You only need to look into something as simple as how the West conceived of the Four Elements in comparison to the Mahabhuta or the Wu Xing to see that being substantial and concrete were posited deliberately, with a consciousness of the other option (if not a whole one).

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 21:18:42 2017 No.10457072 >>10456990 I think we mean different things with myths, I am talking about things like progress, the nation etc., the metapolitical undercurrents that need to be in place for the propaganda to work.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 21:21:26 2017 No.10457085 >>10455912 Shouldn't what he's talking about here be translated as "technics" rather than "technique"?

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 21:32:26 2017 No.10457126
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>>10457072
>I think we mean different things with myths
Yes and no. I make the distinction between traditional myth and what we have now because those undercurrents aren't accessed without mediation. Changing the "embodiment" of such myths does affect them.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 27 21:32:40 2017 No.10457128 >>10457085 There is a lot of different views on how it should be translated. The important distinction to make is that he is not talking just about technology.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 21:38:02 2017 No.10457155

>>10457035
What do you think the role of (descriptive) science is? Will it accelerate our path or could it be liberating in some way? From what've learned about biology, we are more connected with other beings as thought. Consider the concept of the holobiont. That we share a common ancestor with all living beings. Etc.
>>10456990
>What we need is "post-art", not in the sense of the rejection of art, but in the sense of appropriating the domain of art without being art nor being what we think is non-art (that is, art that failed to be art) -- in short, something that paradigmatically changes the means of aesthetic, non-empiric knowledge.
I hope we can discuss this in the future our maybe in this thread.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 21:38:43 2017 No.10457159

>>10457126
I see. I did not mean that we need myths and ideologies in the sense that we should have them, but that they are needed to integrate the individual into the necessities of a technological society.

What we NEED is something meaningful, some hope that is not tied to the sacral world of technique.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 21:50:59 2017 No.10457209

>>10457128
>Notes: 1 The translation of Ellul’s “Technique,” “technique,” and “société technicienne” have presented problems for all English versions of his work. In this instance we have sought to be more literal than on other occasions when “technique” has been rendered as “technology” and “société technicienne” as “technological society.” 2 The French text mis-titles this volume “Sept essais”.
Sorry, I was multitasking.

>>10457155
>What do you think the role of (descriptive) science is? Will it accelerate our path or could it be liberating in some way?
It's hard to say and I don't think I'm really qualified to make such predictions. But if I'm allowed to guess, science is probably less of an enemy to the unscientific than the political climate wishes it would be, and the fields that were reserved for things like religion are probably going to be worked on by science in its own terms more.

>I hope we can discuss this in the future our maybe in this thread.
See you around.

Anonymous Wed Dec 27 22:09:39 2017 No.10457276

>>10457209
It is way too late, but I want to post one last time.
>religion
An odd beast. Used to both control and liberate.
But I make no distinction between ideology and religion. I think that's another part of our cultural heritage, the secular part. That distinction has been created in history.

I think here psychology, or really biology, is useful. The distinction is cultural. Same with the distinction between emotion and intelligence. Neuroscience shows we can make no decisions without it. There's stuff like neurotheology too.

But the problem with science is that it might create new distinctions, which might not be bad, but it could.
Any cultural solutions I think should be post or ultra (beyond). We can't remove our cultural baggage but we can build on top of it.

Anonymous Thu Dec 28 00:26:00 2017 No.10457733

>>10456712
leftism as a political force increases state control 100% of the time, and NEVER implements market solutions (the only non state solution)

they can be retarded and claim their beliefs revolve around fairies and unicorns. claims dont matter. at all. results?

leftists augment state control 100% of the time

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 03:13:12 2017 No.10458229 >>10441617 this was a good thread. great job team

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 28 05:18:54 2017 No.10458465 >>10457276 We are in cultural decline as well as economic decline. Man is so far fallen

>>	A Book asdsad Mon Jul 5 17:32:51 2021 No.10458465,1 Hey

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