/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10401929]

One of these threads

[Anonymous No.10401964]

>>10401929
>tfw library does not have Book of the New Sun
>tfw too cheap to purchase it

[Anonymous No.10401973]

>>10401964
It's time for you to discover libgen.

[Anonymous No.10401997]

>>10401929
Accurate. But I actually think Severian is very virgin-esque in Shadow and becomes a turbo Chad by the end of Sword, gradually increasing his Chad levels as he journeys northwards

[Anonymous No.10402007]

Here's another Wolfe.

[Anonymous No.10402068]

>>10401929
this pic kinda makes me want to read it now

[Anonymous No.10402075]

>>10402007
>Orange Julius
Picked up

[Anonymous No.10402098]

>>10402068
Sorry, only Chads are able to relate to the main character

[Anonymous No.10402117]

>>10402075
>You're an astute reader good sir

[Anonymous No.10402163]

>>10402098
pretty rude

[Anonymous No.10402227]

Alright, so give me the bottom line.
Is it REALLY that good???
I see quite a few reviews saying it's trash, and some of them even seem to be from fellow genrefags, so needless to say, I'm feeling skeptical.

[Anonymous No.10402231]

>>10402227

I bet those people who say it's trash have read it less than twice.

[Anonymous No.10402242]

wolfe's best is latro in the mist. Opinions stating otherwise must be discarded

[Anonymous No.10402251]

>>10402227
its very good for genre fiction
genrefags hold it as the holy grail but people who like actual literature don't particularly care for it

[Anonymous No.10402270]

>>10402227
it's not

[Anonymous No.10402272]

Superior Wolfe coming through

[Anonymous No.10402382]

>>10402163
>implying it's my fault you got cucked out of life
You can always reroll lmao

[Anonymous No.10402394]

Is this like the STALKER game or i am getting my hopes in the wrong place?

[Anonymous No.10402399]

>>10401973
>reading on a screen instead of parchment

[Anonymous No.10402406]

>>10402399
>not having an e-reader which is basically paper

[Anonymous No.10402438]

is this a Wolfe thread or just a lit memes thread?

[Anonymous No.10402439]

[Anonymous No.10402451]

[Anonymous No.10402463]

>>10401929
saved
>>10402227
It's really that good. A lot of the subtle themes go over atheists' heads. They're able to spot the obvious ones and assume, as is their custom, that those are the only ones.

[Anonymous No.10402467]

[Anonymous No.10402479]

[Anonymous No.10402714]

Honestly though, it is really an amazing book. Not saying it's necessarily his best, but I think I personally enjoyed it even more than the Stranger and Exile and the Kingdom.

[Anonymous No.10402806]

[Anonymous No.10403032]

[Anonymous No.10403055]

>>10403032
I don't get it

[Anonymous No.10404300]

>>10403055
who does?

[Anonymous No.10404326]

>>10402479
somehow it becomes funny again. what is this sorcery?

[Anonymous No.10404652]

[Anonymous No.10404702]

>>10402227
It fucking rules. I know that’s kind of an autistic and childish thing to say but it’s a great and engrossing series. Honestly I think people who can’t get into it are brainlets. My friend was raving about ready player one (which seemingly took months to finish) and I recommended BOTNS to him and I think he read like 20 pages and dropped it

[Anonymous No.10404739]

[Anonymous No.10404740]

[Anonymous No.10404786]

>>10402227
I've never been fond of genre fiction. Even the 'classics' like Asimov, LeGuin, Wells, etc. I've never felt were worthy of being called 'great'. They are a cut above most other genre fiction writers but when you put them in context of literature as a whole they are mediocre.

Wolfe is different. Wolfe really is one of the great writers of the past century. TBotNS is THAT good, but I'd start with his short stories of The Fifth Head of Cerberus. I personally feel he is the most underrated and undervalued writer in the world today from both a critical and commercial standpoint.

The only other genre writers I'd consider worth reading are Dick and Delaney.

>>10402242
Latro is great, but Peace is the patrician's choice.

>>10402394
STALKER? Certain parts. But if you want to relieve the video game in a novel format you're looking in the wrong place. The Land Across is Wolfe's most political work and it feels like a fusion of Kafka, Borges, Chesterton, and Stoker all rolled into one.

[Anonymous No.10404810]

>>10402714
>no nazis
you didn't get it.

[Anonymous No.10405169]

This thread has inspired me to do some more Wolfe "Read, Expected, Got" Memes....

[Anonymous No.10405240]

What exactly is so great about Gene Wolfe?

[Anonymous No.10405301]

>>10405240
Briefly, he's a masterful stylist with unique approaches and applications of modernist techniques. He's a writer of intense precision and laser focused thematic vision who's work is best understood in context of his meta textual and theological concerns. He's a writer who is truly unique. You know when you read a Wolfe story that only Wolfe could have written said story, much like Faulkner or Joyce or Melville. He has a distinct voice and style.

He gets a lot of criticism primarily because he writes almost exclusively in MUH GENRE FICTION and because plebs who think they are smarter than him don't bother to really study his texts, techniques, and vision in detail. A good way to approaching his fiction is from the eyes of a mechanic or engineer (his trade before becoming a full-time writer). A normal person sees something like an engine and can get a base understanding of what it does and its purpose, but unless that person dismantles and examines every single piece and part of an engine, they'll never fully understand just how complex a mechanism an engine can be. Take one cog, screw, or piece out of the engine and it may not work at all. Once one understands how each part fits together in the engine they can understand exactly how it works and why it works.

Wolfe's fiction functions in much the same way. Readers may understand basic plot points and character motivations, but without dissecting his texts down to the important details, they won't understand the totality of vision Wolfe is trying to achieve.

[Anonymous No.10405307]

>>10405240

He's a master of the single character perspective and POV.

[Anonymous No.10405308]

I can smell a slimey croat here

[Anonymous No.10405325]

[Anonymous No.10405328]

>>10402451
got him!

[Anonymous No.10405429]

[Anonymous No.10405579]

[Anonymous No.10405580]

>>10402227

It's really that good. Just find out for yourself, anon. I finished them over a year ago, and still get goosebumps thinking about the series, which I think about at least once a week, if this is any signal -- and I read around a book a week.

[Anonymous No.10405589]

>>10404740
I'm vacationing in New Orleans right now and I can say this book 100% accurate to its portrayal of the city.

[Anonymous No.10405590]

>>10405579
lol his name is slaughterdick

[Anonymous No.10405597]

>>10405590
I've slotted a few dykes in my time son.

[Anonymous No.10406392]

[Anonymous No.10406474]

>>10402227
It is REALLY that good. People who dislike it can't understand it for lack of intelligence and testosterone

[Anonymous No.10406502]

>>10402227
It reads like a legend of the future, as though it is destined to become a Homeric epic long after our civilization has crumbled.

[Anonymous No.10406507]

>>10405240
He's a full-on Catholic who writes science fiction in the style of the Bible.

[Anonymous No.10406511]

>>10405240
He's a religious war veteran and is greatly knowledgeable about physics, engineering and Greco-Roman civilisation. He also has a talent for writing. Combined, it makes him very unique. He'd work physics or myth or war or theology or all of them into one of his little stories in the book of the new sun, and it would work. He's genuinity born from experience and imagination which clownish armchair writers like Neil Gaiman can only imitate

[Anonymous No.10406575]

>>10404739
>mfw I did not read Lolita, but I've read those two manga

[Anonymous No.10406647]

>>10402227
Its very much Gaimanshit, no wonder Gaiman loves it. Scenes that change scenes for no real reason, characters with obscure motivations speaking in riddles, and plot that resolves itself with magic and fate.

[Anonymous No.10406863]

>>10406647
All of this is absolutely untrue. Either you never read Wolfe or you're a confirmed brainlet.

[Anonymous No.10406992]

>>10406647
>no wonder Gaiman loves it
>it's possible to buy a book without a Gaiman endorsement on the cover
What world are you living in? I must be in hell.

[Anonymous No.10407153]

>>10406392
I'd have put a dickgirl on the right.

[Anonymous No.10407306]

[Anonymous No.10407386]

>>10402227
Some people love him and some people don't.
It's a very carefully crafted book from the 80s that has a lot of thrashy crap going on typical of the era (like a dude with a naked torso occasionally raping women). Some chapters are dry and others are kind of boring.

Two things I found fascinating was the language (though my favorite books were written in a similar style) and the scale. Like this guy (>>10406502) pointed out, the frame narrative and writing all fit perfectly. Wolfe is not the kind of writer who makes his character spout thoughts on different subjects just to fill in the space. There are so many layers to his writing that if Eco, Borges, Proust or Calvino are your kind of favorite authors, then chances are you might like TBotNS. Most genrefags are too dumb or consumed by the genre memes to care for any of these authors. They rarely notice how an author might just be just ticking off clichés from a checklist to fill the pages, so they care more about plot and characterization.

I still remember how I felt when the whole setting of the book shifted before my eyes after a few chapters and I felt like I was in a fever dream. To name just one petty thing I loved, I haven't read a lot of fantasy but the subtle role and adoration the sword (in a sword and sorcery sort of niche) plays is unmatched by any other author I read.

This other guy (>>10405301) is spot on.

[Anonymous No.10407416]

>>10407386
>like a dude with a naked torso occasionally raping women
Are you mentally ill?

[Anonymous No.10407459]

>>10407416
Didn't he raped jolenta?

[Anonymous No.10407491]

>>10407416
>nitpicking
Sure thing, buddy.

[Anonymous No.10407564]

[Anonymous No.10407574]

>>10407459
People really read that as rape? Bizarre.

[Anonymous No.10407673]

>>10407564
there he goes again

[Anonymous No.10407691]

>>10402227
jesus christ i can't wait until realism is finally put into the ground and faggots like you feel like the outmoded retards that you all are

[Anonymous No.10407730]

>>10407574
This is a great example of Wolfes style. Severian presents his fucking of Jolenta as consensual when the reader is first presented with it. Later on in the series, Severian slips up and recalls how Jolenta didn't really want him. Was it rape? Well, maybe. Maybe not. But Severian clearly hides the full details of what really happened from the reader. Personal opinion is that he did rape her, but Jolenta also didn't resist him much. It was more akin to a drunk college chick saying, unconvincingly, "oh no stop!" As a chad is finger blasting her.

[Anonymous No.10407825]

>>10404786
>Even the 'classics' like Asimov, LeGuin, Wells, etc. I've never felt were worthy of being called 'great'.
This. Calling an Asimov book and a Wolfe book classics in the same sentence is a major insult to Wolfe. Asimov books are great sci-fi books. Wolfe's books are great literature.

[Anonymous No.10407853]

>>10407730
Quote the passage where he “slips up”. I think sick fantasies are being inserted. Readers abuse the “unreliable narrator” meme. “Was it rape?” is itself a meme.

[Anonymous No.10407872]

>>10407853
rape is not a meme, it's a serious crime

[Anonymous No.10407873]

>>10407853
I don't have the novels in front of me, but if memory serves me right, Severian presents it firstly as a totally normal consensual relation only to later on let it slip that Jolenta was essentially near unconsciousness due to the withdrawal symptoms she developed after not having access to Talos' drugs any longer which eventually leads to her gruesome death

[Anonymous No.10407877]

>>10407386
>>10407459
Severian smashing the pussy is integral to his character, not "trashy" at all. Jolenta was asking for it and probably loved it so not even rape even if she was drugged. I would do it and you would too. It proves that Severian is only a man like the rest of us

[Anonymous No.10407879]

>>10407873
You're wrong, he doesn't imply anything of a sort except that Jolenta didn't resist

[Anonymous No.10407883]

>>10407879
if you often have to argue that somebody didn't resist in your encounters with women i have bad news for you

[Anonymous No.10407885]

>>10407883
it means they love it and you should go harder virgin

[Anonymous No.10407894]

I was REALLY disappointed by Dune which was recommended by those fucking genre fags, but you cursed faggots just convinced me to try Wolfe and I sure hope my ass won't get disappointed again.

Now would you please just give me a book name. I want something shorter, like two to three hundreds pages.

[Anonymous No.10407901]

>>10407894
The Book of the New Sun
each volume is 2-300 pages and you will want to read them all

[Anonymous No.10407916]

>>10404652

[Anonymous No.10407969]

>>10407894
TBotNS is Wolfes most widely read book and it is a masterpiece, but start with The Fifth Head of Cerberus to see if Wolfes for you. It's just as good as TBotNS only much shorter (it's three novellas which compose one narrative) at about 300 pages.

[Anonymous No.10408023]

>>10406575
>manga
Left one's a doujin you baka.

[Anonymous No.10408091]

>>10401929

[Anonymous No.10408176]

>>10407306
It's good though

[Anonymous No.10408191]

>>10401929

[Anonymous No.10408203]

>>10404786
>No mentions of Lem
>No mentions of the strugatsky brothers

[Anonymous No.10408343]

>>10402394
No, its not like STALKER. Its a very unusual Wolfe book. It was very invigorating to read because as far as I can tell its one of the few that readers haven't "cracked" yet, if you know what I mean. Like in the way that many of the mysteries in BotNS and Peace and The Wizard Knight have been cracked. There's clearly something going on beneath the surface of The Land Across. I have a theory, but I'm not going to proselytize it until I've read it again.

[Anonymous No.10408367]

>>10402227

Its pretenious /lit/ shit. If you are here longer than 2 month than you know that you can't trust 90% of the recommendations.

[Anonymous No.10408502]

>>10408367
dumb pleb

[Anonymous No.10408520]

[Anonymous No.10409526]

>>10408520
>reading China Mieville
>not expecting reddit

[Anonymous No.10410747]

[Anonymous No.10412521]

>>10408091
Very good

[A loser No.10414083]

>>10404739
I'm reading this and I feel the same.

[Anonymous No.10414102]

>>10405325
is that Brendan?

[A loser No.10414111]

>>10405325
Can you give me a link?

[Anonymous No.10414133]

>>10414111
https://archive.org/details/AllAboutWomenWhatBigSisterDoesntWantYouToKnowSimonSheppard1998

[Anonymous No.10414145]

>>10403032
Holy shit, it actually made me laugh
>>10403055
just read the book

[Anonymous No.10414254]

>>10408176
Is it though? But is it?

[Anonymous No.10414326]

>Mom asks me what I want for christmas
>Tell her about this book
>The only two book stores in my country are sold out
Another pair of christmas socks for me

[Anonymous No.10414351]

>>10402251
>>10404786
>>10405301
What's with the genre fiction hateboner? Is this the /lit/ version of /v/'s "enjoy liking shit"?

[Anonymous No.10414457]

[Anonymous No.10414518]

>>10414351
to be fair genre fiction generally sucks. Wolfe just transcends it though

[Anonymous No.10414535]

>>10414518
No disagreements here, so perhaps a better understanding of the aversion is "so much is crap that separating the pepper from the fly shit isn't worth it?"

[Anonymous No.10414536]

>>10414351
Most genre fiction is trash. But the same could be said for most fiction in general. The difference is that genre fiction typically attracts redditors and neck beards who think GURRM is more important than Melville and Star Wars is chock full of complex philosophy.

I'd venture to say most /lit/izens are open to genre fiction, provided that it's good literature (such as Wolfe, Tolkien, Dick, Etc). The problem is that the truly good writers of genre fiction are few and far between. Regardless, this anon >>10407691
Is right. Realism is a meme

[Anonymous No.10414559]

>>10403032
this, main character is just autistic

[Anonymous No.10414656]

>>10401929
I just read the part at the very beginning in chapter 5 where Severian beat the shit out of Eata and "kicked the boys into submission" upon becoming captain of apprentices. What the hell was that about?
Very interesting book thus far btw. Have a feeling this is right up my alley.

[Anonymous No.10415207]

>>10401929
i bought this book for my dad for christmas b/c lit is always shilling gene wolfe as quality fantasy. my dad likes game of thrones & r.a. salvatore type fantasy. will he like this? starting to doubt after reading this thread

[Anonymous No.10415302]

>>10415207
Ehhhhh....he probably would have liked The Wizard Knight more, but he may like it, even if it's just on a surface level.

[Anonymous No.10415353]

>>10415302
i picked book of the new sun over other gene wolfe because it was in a really long series and he likes long series

[Anonymous No.10415382]

>>10415353
It's a great book, but if your dad prefers sword and sorcery and/or more generic fantasy, TWK is more fitting. TBotNS is full of weird and bizzare shit that makes it a lot different than standard fantasy

[Anonymous No.10415534]

>>10407894
I like Dune and it is worth its place in sci-fi but it’s gay pretentious shit when compared to BOTNS

[Anonymous No.10415917]

It was kind of a letdown.

[Anonymous No.10415976]

>>10407306
Missing two pages that's one run-on sentence.

[Anonymous No.10416024]

>>10401929
Halfway through Citadel of the Autarch. Its great but a lot of it feels like the memoirs of an older guy describing how much tail he got when he was 20, which might have been intentional.

[Anonymous No.10416505]

>>10414326
lol what book and where do you live?

[Anonymous No.10416779]

>>10415917
>>10415917
What about the ending though? I thought it was great.
That's what sold me.

[Anonymous No.10416999]

>>10416779
I actually bailed on it. I couldn't handle Syme; he was too obnoxious. He continues smoking his pipe as the bar's floor becomes an elevator into the anarchist's lair? At that point my eyes were already tired from all the rolling they did during the beginning's debate between Syme and the anarchist. Both characters were such obvious and unsubtle abstractions used to push an argument against whatever the hell Chesterton thinks anarchism is. The entire scene basically served as a warning for how didactic the novel was going to be. I think what pushed me over the edge was reading about Chesterton's awful objections to Nietzsche. Chesterton is praised for his wit, but wit is debased by simultaneous smug moralizing. I think wit flourishes in the space where we approach the limits of human knowledge. Chesterton's wit is undercut by his blundering moral absolutism. Also, the descriptive prose was hugely overburdened; its verbosity was almost always irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.10418073]

>>10403032
Did he pass away at the end or not?

[Anonymous No.10418868]

[Anonymous No.10418902]

>>10404740
How did you come to expect those things from this book?

[Anonymous No.10418943]

>>10405169
Gold

[Anonymous No.10419425]

>>10401929

[Anonymous No.10419502]

>>10402272
Gaiman's comment is trash.
>Important

[Anonymous No.10419549]

>>10402272
I picked this up after finishing the New Sun books and got bored out of my mind.

[Anonymous No.10419566]

[Anonymous No.10419574]

>>10416999
I'll say that the ending addresses some of your concerns, but if you really didn't enjoy it that much I guess you might as well skip it.