How to get into classical music? I ask here because /mu/ is too plebeian.

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Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:26:07 2017 No.10036493 [DELETED]

How to get into classical music? I ask here because /mu/ is too plebeian.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:27:42 2017 No.10036500 Maybe try not wanting to listen to something only because of the prestige of it instead of listening to what you want, you pseud

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:32:04 2017 No.10036517

Start by learning basic interval and triad theory. Then 7th chords and inversions. Then Roman numeral analysis and eventually counterpoint and ear training.

Without this knowledge and skillset your appreciation of classical music will be surface level at best.

Good luck.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:33:10 2017 No.10036521 >>10036493 Why do you want to listen to classical music?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:34:22 2017 No.10036525 File: 15 KB, 220x275, 220px-Bernardo_Strozzi_-_Claudio_Monteverdi_(c.1630).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Baroque music > Classical music

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:34:35 2017 No.10036527

If I recall /mu/ has a /classical/ thread every now and then. If you want a condensed version I suppose I can tell you that like literature music is defined by certain movements and in order to appreciate each subsequent movement one must be familiar with the one that came before. Though unless you're highly religious and/or have a high tolerance medieval/renaissance music won't exactly appeal to people who have been conditioned to the modern world so I would recommend putting some Palestrina and Monteverdi in the background before moving on.

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:39:48 2017 No.10036549

>>10036500
No, it doesn't matter. The prestige surrounding classical music is there for a reason, and if it gets you interested, all the better.

>>10036493

Listen to fucking Beethoven. Listen to all the symphonies, even passively, but be sure to listen to the 9th a lot. The string quartets too, of course, especially the late ones.

Listen to bach you dingus, study the well-tempered clavier. Can you play an instrument? Can you read music? If you can't, you should. Learn to read sheet music. Sing if you have to.

Once you start really enjoying Bach, familiarize yourself with a wide variety of composers to find out your particular taste. Check out pieces from medieval to modern, and try to keep an open mind to things which you don't like. When you find a composer that speaks to you on a personal level, it could be a good way to start studying music theory and analyzing scores. From there, you could explore similar composers and influences. Classical music is amazing, so get into it and stop being a pleb.

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:41:24 2017 No.10036556

Also WTF, I used to occasionally try to make music threads on /lit/ because I noticed that every time music came up in a thread that people on /lit/ had way better music discussion than /mu/ and my threads were always deleted in under 5 minutes (even when I tried to make them vaguely /lit/-related) and sometimes I was banned for 3 days

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:47:13 2017 No.10036588

>>10036549

I'm a huge Neetzsch fan and I don't get Wagner. Especially reading about his music it seems like the best thing ever, but I don't get it. Feels pleb man.
I'm gonna start listening to Beethoven more seriously to see if I can get into it. The only "classical" music I really like are Vivaldis Four seasons.

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:55:07 2017 No.10036628

>>10036493
Be careful famalam. I started listening to classical music a few years ago and now I'm stuck. Everything else seems boring in comparison. I've been called pretentious and crazy because of what has become an obsession. I know more about Beethoven than I know about my own father.

But to answer your question, some good starter composers are Mozart, Vivaldi, and Chopin. Classical music is more complex than I assume you can imagine: it is not fit for the background. Give the music all your attention. You can start with the film 'Amadeus' to become exposed to a lot of music at once and then explore the pieces that appeal to you. I think the 'best of' videos on Youtube of various composers are also good for a beginner. It is an acquired taste so be patient if you want to develop a love for it. Also make sure you're not getting into it for any other reason than that it is the highest art form: if you are trying to appear a certain way and think that classical music will somehow make you more impressive, you're better off ending your life.

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:56:07 2017 No.10036634

>>10036588
>four seasons

Try this out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FdNlhZAYBE
Really, I don't think it's possible to "get" Wagner's music as a work of music in itself, rather than as a product of his artistic theories. Familiarize yourself with the plot and read the libretto while reading, I guess. I'm not a huge fan but Wagner is fantastic.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:58:02 2017 No.10036643 >>10036521 I'm tired of the music I listen to for about 5-6 years. Also I begin to study German philosophy at the university. I always imagined that these areas are closely related.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 17:58:51 2017 No.10036651 >>10036517 I might add that you should learn Latin and Old German and read 19th century Russian lit

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:00:41 2017 No.10036659

>>10036493
Three ways:
1) Learn to play a classical instrument, learn music theory (although this actually ruined my enjoyment of late baroque-romantic music, it works for other people)
2) Start listening to Scaruffi-core, and then work into the modern classical that influenced it (Schaffler, Stockhausen, Xenakis, Reich etc). Then work backwards.
3) Start with the Gregorians (Perotin, Leonin, Hildegard) and work forwards.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:01:04 2017 No.10036661 >>10036634 Just to be clear, Vivaldi doesn't deserve the shit he gets from some people. Listen to this, if you on the off chance have not yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjR3mTbwPCo

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:01:10 2017 No.10036662 >>10036493 Listen to Vivaldi, Bach and Weiss. And lute music

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:01:46 2017 No.10036664 >>10036634 Thanks, I really like it so far. It does remind me more of Vivaldi. Its the instruments used I guess.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:05:27 2017 No.10036676 >>10036643 By the way, I'm an Orthodox Christian. One good man recommended Handel's spiritual works.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:06:25 2017 No.10036680 >listening to music >not just reading the score You're all plebs.

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:06:41 2017 No.10036682

In case the faggot mods try to delete this for being off-topic, I post this to remind them that studying classical music and literature are inextricably intertwined. St. John's college (which has its students literally start with the Greeks in their freshman year and read the entire canon and end with modernism in their senior year) has the works of a number of composers as part of their curriculum, and not just operas:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John%27s_College_(Annapolis/Santa_Fe)#Sophomore_year

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:08:05 2017 No.10036688

>>10036680
This is a shitpost but listening along to the score does actually help if you want to understand what is going on. With enough practice, you should be able to look at a score for a small number of parts and "imagine" what the music sounds like.

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:11:46 2017 No.10036700

>>10036659
>1) Learn to play a classical instrument, learn music theory (although this actually ruined my enjoyment of late baroque-romantic music, it works for other people)

could you elaborate on that last part? I would have assumed that someone who knows musical theory can appreciate a pompuous style more than an untrained ear? or am I naive in assuming that baroque is more complex than others?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:13:06 2017 No.10036706 >>10036659 >Hildegard My bro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1byhvBl00o

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:13:21 2017 No.10036708 I don't have time to learn to play a musical instrument. Are there any lifehacks for subhuman?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:16:12 2017 No.10036720 >>10036708 Exit bag

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:17:30 2017 No.10036726 >>10036708 Become a DJ and drown in pussy

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:17:47 2017 No.10036727 >>10036720 I'm fucking afraid of death.

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:17:53 2017 No.10036728

>>10036700
I can't stop myself from autistically analyzing it in my head when I listen to it instead of appreciating it for what it is. Really early music (medieval) and very modern classical (e.g spectralism) operates on a different set of "rules" that I do not understand fully, so the mystique is kept. Also, a lot of classical-era stuff is really simple and I don't get why people think of themselves as being superior for listening to it (particularly poseurs).

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:19:01 2017 No.10036734 >>10036727 Start with the Greeks

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:19:17 2017 No.10036736 You're afraid to ask on /mu/ because they'd instantly pick you out as another cultured teen trying to force themselves into enjoying something they don't like. There's an active /classical/ general up 24/7.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:19:55 2017 No.10036739 >>10036728 Forgot to say that (good) early music performances will have a lot of improvisation, which is an aspect of classical music that I think got killed off prematurely.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:21:34 2017 No.10036744 >>10036734 I've already read Phaedo.

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 18:26:16 2017 No.10036767
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hey bud, lifelong classical musician here.

learning an instrument is very good to start to love and understand classical music. also, if you have the chance going to a live performance of classical music should be good once you've started listening.

i'd recommend honestly listening to those "classical music 4 hour compilation" videos on youtube, and seeing what really piques your interest.

it's important to not that you shouldn't force a liking onto it, but you should also be very open. Mozart, Bach, Chopin, Hayden, and Vivaldi are the masters of the craft: start with them if you need a base. Move on to Wagner, Stravinsky, and the rest of the later guys further on. some of their stuff is far different from the old guys and some of it might not be too good, but some of it is true genius. good luck!

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 19:11:59 2017 No.10036923

I've started listening more to classical, especially after seeing the film Amadeus. There's just so much beauty to it all that it's unmatched. A ton of subtleties.

One composition I've heard recently that's more modern and especially touching is this one. Really good.
https://youtu.be/94ByTxhtT38

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 19:52:30 2017 No.10037035 Start with Tchaikovsky, easy for plebs like you to enjoy.

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 19:57:07 2017 No.10037054
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>>10036493
Listen to it. Some of it won't make sense at first. In those cases, try different performances and give it time. I personally couldn't get Bach's polyphony until I listened to Gould's suites, for example. Some styles will just take time to become understandable to you.
Read about the theory, form and history. There's lots of good resources on the internet (Wikipedia, Classical Notes), but I also found Aaron Copland's book "What to listen for in music" to be very useful and approachable.
As >>10036767 said, it is good to go to concerts. That is the natural environment for classical music and there you are most directly confronted with it.

Here are some favourites among classical newbies
>Beethoven's 14 piano sonata "Moonlight"
>Vivaldi's "Four Seasons" concerti
>Carl Orff's Carmina Burana (I particularly recommend this one because once you get used to the more complex styles, Carmina's simplicity might end up just boring you)
>Chopin
>Debussy
>Tchaikovsky
>Stravinsky's Rite of Spring
>Dvorak's 9th symphony "From the New World"
>Smetana's "Ma vlast" symphonic poems
>Moussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition" suite (generally the orchestrated version seems to be preferred) and Night on the Bare Mountain

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 20:03:28 2017 No.10037076 File: 94 KB, 400x607, Une-histoire-de-la-musique.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Read this before listening to anything. You need historical foundations (and strong opinions) first.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 21:38:35 2017 No.10037352 >>10036527 Now is not a good time to check /classical/, we are having some derailment issues.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 21:40:56 2017 No.10037355 >>10036493 >/mu/ is too plebeian >it's a babby can't handle Xenakis and Stockman episode There is no hope. You're doomed to be a lowly pleb forever.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 21:41:43 2017 No.10037356 >>10037076 I imagine you don't actually enjoy music.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 21:48:36 2017 No.10037378 File: 149 KB, 1492x1172, YBITbfb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10037356 >enjoying music What kind of faggot are you?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 21:57:14 2017 No.10037404 I like Chopin, Stravinsky, Saint-Saëns, and Dvořák.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 22:00:49 2017 No.10037415 >>10037355 >classical = Xenakis and Stockman >>>rym

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 22:30:10 2017 No.10037504

>>10036493
Watch a good music appreciation course. Listen to every piece that's discussed and listen for the things that are discussed about them. After that you'll have your sea legs and can make an informed decision about what to do next.

http://oyc.yale.edu/music/musi-112

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 22:37:40 2017 No.10037520 >>10036682 >tfw i'm a sophomore at st. john's studying that music this year feels good famalam

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 22:38:43 2017 No.10037526 https://exploringmusic.wfmt [dot] com

Anonymous Sun Sep 17 22:46:41 2017 No.10037554

Only classical music that's ever really appealed to me was piano music. I've thought about trying to learn the instrument as a way in (I just know how to play guitar, which I couldn't care less about) but goddamn, it's hard to find the time for something like that and keep up my other hobby, which is reading.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 22:50:19 2017 No.10037565 >>10036556 the mods left a few months ago

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 17 23:29:07 2017 No.10037688 >>10036662 >lute music I rec Dowland, great stuff

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 02:02:43 2017 No.10038216 >>10037554 leave 4chan for good and you'll easily find the time

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 02:15:01 2017 No.10038257 Baroque > Romantic > Impressionist > Renaissance > Classic

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 02:24:41 2017 No.10038282 >>10038257 i'm happy with any ranking that puts classical last

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 02:33:08 2017 No.10038308 File: 52 KB, 620x413, schiller statue.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10038257 >classical last Shit taste

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 02:43:32 2017 No.10038329 >>10036525 this, marin marais is my favorite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrN0pqmwk-I

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 02:46:45 2017 No.10038336 I didn't like classical music until I was about 14 and started learning Beethoven sonatas and Bach preludes on the piano. Now it's virtually all I listen to.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 02:47:45 2017 No.10038339 >>10038257 impressionism is not an era of music history in the same sense that the others you've given are. here is definitive list: Baroque > Renaissance > 20th century > Medieval > Romantic > Classical

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 02:50:04 2017 No.10038345 >>10038339 >not dividing 20th century into modern and post-war wew. Also, real list: Classical > Renaissance > Baroque > Modern > Romantic > Contemporary > Post-War = Medieval

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 02:52:11 2017 No.10038347 >>10038345 ok fine I stick to my original list but insert "Pre-1960 > Post-1960" in place of "20th century." I say that the advent of minimalism is a more important aesthetic threshold than is the war.

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 02:55:22 2017 No.10038354

>>10038347
No, because post-War = Darmstadt style/American styles while post-1960 would more imply what I call "Contemporary" in my list (German and Danish New Simplicity, post-minimalism, acousmatic music)

Though it's really just autistic and arbitrary

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 03:02:52 2017 No.10038369 File: 43 KB, 400x500, 1431301963716.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >post yfw your favorite piece hits that crescendo that the whole thing has been building up to for the last 25 minutes

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 03:07:34 2017 No.10038380 >>10038369 Don't know that feel since I don't listen to late romantic garbage like that

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 03:09:44 2017 No.10038387 >>10038354 yah but i feel like it's also a mistake to separate reactions to the war from stuff written in the build-up because it's all sort of the same ilk, you know?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 03:11:26 2017 No.10038392 >>10038369 >>10038380 yeah are you listening to post-rock or something? pleb

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 03:21:28 2017 No.10038400 >>10038387 There is a DEFINITE ideological shift in the post-war Darmstadt school from the pre-war currents, some of it even manifests in formal terms.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 03:46:31 2017 No.10038439 File: 13 KB, 188x203, 14653.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why does this thread still exist?

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 04:05:19 2017 No.10038475

>>10036588

I've been playing and listening to classical for 20 years and I don't really like Wagner either. I appreciate his preludes, but actually listening to the operas themselves, they drone and on and devolve into annoying cacophony to me.

Opera is a subset not all classical lovers really dive into.

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 04:36:25 2017 No.10038542
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Access your library's catalogue and look up this heavy-handed and uncharismatic oaf. Robert Greenberg PhD. I recommend his lectures especially if you wish to understand what you're hearing.

Put on Mozart, go about your day, pause and look up the song whenever you feel a spark of enjoyment from what you're hearing. While the vast bulk of Western music is plainchant, starting with the Baroque is the musical equivalent to starting with the Greeks.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 04:40:09 2017 No.10038549 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_yOVARO2Oc&list=PLh9mgdi4rNezhx8YiGIV8I22ICSuzslja

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 04:40:32 2017 No.10038550 i listen hip-hop now how to get into classics? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czSL8P5X-4Q

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 05:54:04 2017 No.10038667

>All that hate on medieval music
But it's really majestic and beautiful. There are a lot of great pieces both secular and religious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj5Bc8zwwU0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6rA2x_lPq0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnWhThoW8N0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyzpYmszYZ4

There's something really captivating in early music: slight musical naiveté, minimalism, the way it shows mindset of people living long time ago. It allows musicians to take quite a lot of freedom in arrangements. When people play Bach, it's always Bach, but when people play Machaut, Reuental or Vaqueiras, it's always something different, for better or worse. After long-time exposure to post-Bach music, it all seems like a whole new alien world.

It's really a great shame, that it doesn't get discussed that much.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 07:10:15 2017 No.10038873 How is What to Listen to in Music by Aaron Copland? Would that be a good book for a beginner?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 07:17:04 2017 No.10038887 How is What to Listen for in Music by Aaron Copland? Would that be a good book for a beginner?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 07:19:07 2017 No.10038890 So many pretentious people here. Just fucking listen to any composer and then listen to others and develop your taste.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 08:34:51 2017 No.10039100 >>10038887 I have it. It doesn't delve into the history of music much, but it explains basic theory pretty nicely. Melody, harmony, structure and such stuff. Yeah, I'd say it's good for a beginner.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 09:28:10 2017 No.10039227 >>10038667 Good post

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 09:28:42 2017 No.10039232 >>10039100 Thanks

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 12:31:15 2017 No.10039891 >>10038667 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRfF7W4El60

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 14:46:27 2017 No.10040439

>>10036493
Listen to this piece. It lasts 10 minutes.
https://youtu.be/emYTG80B2vU
Since I already know how you will listen to this piece, I'm asking you to take extreme carre of the piece starting from 6.34. Just focus on it. Keep in mind that after every "slow" part a bombastic one will follow, and you will love it.

The trick to get into classical music is to find a single piece you like. Once you find something that you are willing to listen to for 10 minutes, half of the work is done. You mow have am object of interest over which you can develop your attention span: sure, you can force yourself to listen to Haydn's symphonies for hours, but in the beginning it would be more useful to find a few Beethoven's sonatas you might like, and listen to them until you get used to listen to 30 minutes pieces.
Here's some Beethoven's sonatas that every edgy il/lit/erate will love: sonatas no. 8, 14, 17, 23, 29 (if you like complex music you will love from the get go, if you don't this should be his last sonata to listen to), 30, 31, 32.
Beethoven was a master of the classical style, and said style was mainly built wround the taste of the audiences of his time, which means that for us it has to be an acquired taste. This applies mostly to Beethoven's second movements, which are usually light hearted and almost childish for our contemporary sensibilities. In the sonatas I've told you to listen, these movements will be the boring one, yet I assure you that at some point you will learn to love them. You'll love the firsts and thirds movements: they are all intense, and filled with interesting ideas that csn be captured by untrained ears.

Also, some Bach. This is my personal advice: listen to these 3 fugues extensively.
Contrapunctus I: slow and contemplative. This will be the first contrapunctual piece you'll listen to. Focus on the different voices cohordinating one with each other. This is the first classical piece I've listened to, ever: it immediatly striked me as the most mature piece of music I've ever heard.
https://youtu.be/zwkzf-KUNPM
Contrapunctus IX. A virtuosistic one. You'll love the middle part (from 0.52 to 1.50 circa: listen to these passages multiple times, and you'll discover how catchy can classical music be).
https://youtu.be/FAU4EGgfGm0
Contrapunctus XI: this is a multifaceted one. The sections are articulated this way: slow, fast, slow, nevrotic. I personally find the part that starts at 03.05 irresistible. You might find yourself tspping the rhythm during the part that goes from 3.44 to 4.14.
https://youtu.be/GRRw-mMbykM

After you got used to these 3 pieces, listen to Bach's Art of Fugue by Gould (one of the most accessible interpretations out there). Once you are comfortable with these pieces explore harpsichord and organ interpretations,

I genuinely hope this post will help you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 14:50:34 2017 No.10040455 >>10040439 For what concerns Beethoven, start with Pollini's interpretations, then branch to more traditional ones.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 14:52:52 2017 No.10040469 >>10036493 where do you live? i am going to mahler symphony this friday, cracow here

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 14:55:24 2017 No.10040487

>>10036525
Modern Classical > Romantic > Classical = Baroque.

If you want to get into classical just listen to a shit load of it and maybe commit to learning an instrument. Part of enjoying the music is understanding how it works formally, harmonically, and technically.

>>10036549
This basically. The 3bs of Bach, Beethoven, and Brahms are pretty great. Mozart is GOAT and then once you've graduated from the entry level stuff check out Schoenberg, Berg, Ives etc.

Dvorak's New World and Shostakovich's 5th are also great more modern symphonies.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 14:57:44 2017 No.10040499 >>10036628 >I know more about Beethoven than I know about my own father Only on fucking 4chan.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 15:06:30 2017 No.10040541 >>10036493 Unironically, by watching Kubrick films.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 15:26:29 2017 No.10040654 Just listen to compilations of classical music on YouTube until you find someone you like and explore them further.

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 15:39:54 2017 No.10040721

>>10040487
Brahms is a terrible starting point, so are Schoenber, Berg and Ives. Their works are long, slow in their developments and generally auite hard to figure out (especially Brahms, who will be a boring piece of shit until you'll train your ears and study some theory).

The problems of most of you guys is that yoj are suggesting OP to listen good composers not because they are accessible, but only because they are good, as if a first timer could possibly understand Berg or the less intense pieces by Bach (if you suggest him to listen to harpsichord interpretations first you will probbaly even alienate him from Bach's music).
Most of classical music is an acquired taste, therefore suggestioms of these sort should account for accessibility. For example Mozart (who is seen as boring, childing and repetitive by philistines) is far less accessible than Ravel (for example when listening to Mozart one has to learn how to accept repetitive musical figures such as Alberti basses, or perfect cadences that ends in trills). Also someone like Schubert is infinitely less accessible than Beethoven, and early Beethoven is far less accesible than late Beethoven. Somehow what seems to be the most digestible music (it certainly was for 19th century crowds) is instead the hardest music to follow through.

Imo the best path is to suggest short, intense music first, and slowly build the concentration necessary to listen to slower, more peaceful music, such as the one of Mozart of Bach's church works.

tl;dr: suggest him music that he will certainly like, and account for contemporary sensibilities rather than 18th-19th century ones

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 15:51:26 2017 No.10040781 >>10038257 Romantic = Impressionism > Classical > Modern = Baroque >>>> Vulture Bone Flute Music >>> Post Modern

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 16:24:00 2017 No.10040954

I'm trying to figure out classical music myself but it has been a rocky road, and I haven't found any firm ground to really build my understanding on.

So far:
>listened casually for a couple years, downloaded stuff at random to try things out
>started out liking Haydn's symphonies a lot
>then fell in love with Mozart's concertos (esp. the run of piano concertos 17-26), and The Magic Flute
>Mozart is still my favourite composer by far
>tried out Beethoven, but I seem to prefer his earlier (less innovative, more formal?) to his later more sweeping, developmental, emotional stuff?
>tried out Bach a lot, absolutely amazed by certain things, think I like it as much as Mozart, but I think I need to understand music theory more to fully appreciate
>been reading about the history of music also
>have a reasonable understanding
>listen to some medieval and reconstructed ancient music to try to soften my reliance on the modern musical paradigm

But where I really run into trouble is post-Beethoven:
>"enjoy" a lot of things from Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Mussorgsky, etc., but never on the transcendent level of Mozart
>my single biggest problem: I don't know how to fully appreciate the shift from Mozart/Bach-like wholeness to "narrative complexity" in the post-classical era
>many developmental symphonies (e.g.) are very nice, but it feels like a different animal altogether from baroque/classical - less like "pure music" and more like suggestive soundtrack music for an imagined stageplay
>have to strain my mind to understand how something like Tchaikovsky or Beethoven is superior to Mozart
>enjoy Debussy and Mahler, but especially with them I get the sneaking suspicion that I am enjoying it on the level of hollywood movie soundtrack "background music," not experiencing them with full attention
>all in all, everything from beethoven onward feels like "tone poems," whose logical completion is in gestamtkunstwerk, which just seems like kitsch to me
>read several books on the epistemology of modernism in music
>try to understand what Stravinsky, Debussy, Schoenberg are doing philosophically
>agree with deconstructing reliance on modern musical paradigm, insofar as I understand, but really wish I had more technical music theory to combine with my philosophical guesses about what music "is" (what it should do, and how one should listen to it)

Anonymous Mon Sep 18 16:29:42 2017 No.10040980

>>10040954
Also
>read Birth of Tragedy obviously
>trying to read Stumpf but my middling German makes it difficult
>surprised at how difficult it is to find Husserlian/Heideggerian phenomenology of music
>reading Adorno's books on Beethoven and other composers to see how Adorno's own phenomenology of music works (his Wagner book didn't help in this regard, because obviously focused on Wagner's antisemitism/personality and lyrical content rather than pure music)
>reading a book on Deleuzian theory of music but it's not great

Overall I'm frustrated with how difficult it is to find systematic philosophical theories of music. The vast majority of music theorists tend to be interested only in surface level analysis, like cultural preferences. Too many unexamined assumptions, like "more sound is better sound!" without really doing rigorous phenomenology of sound experience. Very very frustrated by how rare it is to find prescriptive philosophies of how to listen, and what the mind does/should do while listening.

Colin Wilson has a line somewhere in one of his books about how Schoenberg's intent is right, but his means of going about it is "founded on a subtle fallacy."

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 17:09:15 2017 No.10041194 >>10040469 Moscow.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 17:32:53 2017 No.10041304 >>10036493 Start with the romantic composers. They're the least challenging.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 19:20:48 2017 No.10041672 >>10036493 this might sound utterly pretentious but honestly you have to play it to really get it NOTHING compares to sitting in the middle of a full orchestra going hell for leather

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 18 19:22:38 2017 No.10041677 File: 6 KB, 377x330, 1478432471396.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Did anyone watch any of the Proms this year?

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/lit/ - Literature