/lit/ - Literature

>>9988258
what happens if islamic terrorists take over the world and slowly realize that the west was right the whole time?

>>9988258
I think Spengler would resent people trying to use his ideas about history to lend credibility to their asinine political philosophy.

>>9988296
I don't think there was something Spengler didn't resent

Trump is Nero, not Caesar.
The end is near.

>>9988306
Trump is Crassus if anybody. His rule is not the beginning of caesarism but the end of oligarchy

>>9988306
Who was Caesar then, Napoleon?

>>9988318
I was just memeing but I guess this makes more sense. So what's next?
Also Spengler took into consideration only individual civilizations but what happens when we've reached the point of globalism?

>>9988318
I was thinking Sulla, an authoritarian figure who still operates within the limits of a republican constitution.

>>9988306
Nigga the actual dictators aren't going to come until about 40 years down the line, check the timetable.

>>9988258
Trump is the jester before the Caesar.

>>9988346
>what happens when we've reached the point of globalism

Apocalypse

>>9988360
Fuck off Kermitard

>>9988360
then 2020 rolls around and we get Dwayne Johnson

I thought Trump was Marius

>>9988346
>Also Spengler took into consideration only individual civilizations but what happens when we've reached the point of globalism?
For Spengler, civilization isn't just what language you speak or what rituals you do but the entire way you perceive the world. Already during Spengler's time and especially now, Western/Faustian culture has spread to the entire planet, with the possible exception of the Middle-East. You can recognize it in the way that non-Western peoples have adopted Western dress, science, philosophy, economics, etc.

>>9988380
Then who is sulla, who will make trump so scared that he'll die of fright?.......I think we all know..

>>9988391
Kid Rock?

>>9988258
If I buy Spengler should I get the abridged version or the whole thing?

Spengler is astrology; everyone sees Spenglerian patterns when there - in all actuality - might be none.

>won't be alive for a grand collapse

>>9988395
same question; which book did wittgenstein like

>>9988395
>Buy
It's literally the current year, here you go brother.

Abridged:
http://yostore.co/ucretsizbot_com/the_decline_of_the_west_abridged.pdf

Unabridged:
https://archive.org/details/Decline-Of-The-West-Oswald-Spengler

>>9988414
Thanks a lot, I buy my books because I like having bookcases but I'm not averse to reading from a screen.

>>9988406
This. Spengler was more of a poet than a rigorous historical thinker.

In the last account, or at least in this period of our current development on earth, it's too much to expect that the truth will enthrall us and appeal to our emotions. We're too sinful, too small, too ignorant for that.

>>9988392
The orange fears the cracker

>>9988406
EU is forming an army, the police is getting heavier arms all over the west, populists are on the rise, nationalism is taking root in the Eastern Europe, and the trust in global economy is going down. USA can't fund another war, and its demographics are disastrous. 30% Mexicans, 10% blacks. Virtually all of them vote for one party in a two party state, causing a hyperbole on two sides; the horseshoe effect.

I think Spengler was wrong about one thing. He didn't even imagine that there would be a time when accelerationists would pursue the armageddon, multiculturalism, globalism, transhumanism, zionism, Jihad, socialism or what have you. End of the world (or history) ideologies plague our societies, from within and without.

>>9988258
Caesarism started with Obamania.

Trump-Crassus
Jeb- Lepidus (Lep!)
Barron- Augustus
Cruz- Cato The Younger
Who am I missing?

>>9988258
Trump is temporary. He'll be out the door by 2020. 2018 the dems will take back the House of Reps and Senate and basically castrate Trump

>>9988749
Hillary Clinton - Pompey

>>9988786
The deep distrust of institutional politics and the appeal of outsiders who rule though politics of force will stay though.

>>9988786

>heh no worries we'll beat that trump guy no problem

Where have I heard this before

>>9988808
When has that ever left?

>>9988810
I know, broken record, but Trump is becoming increasingly more divisive. Even people in his own base is starting to get upset

>>9988823
Depends who the Dems put foreward. If it's no one good then Trump will be fine.

>>9988823

It doesn't matter unless democrats overcome their inability to effectively mobilize frustration into votes. The party is too fractured right now and can't agree on basis issue pillars like immigration or health care. Not to mention that the democrats have been gerrymandered into the most lopsided electoral landscape in American history (not an exaggeration). There are significant barriers to a democratic resurgence in 2018 and I'm not sure at all that they have effectively addressed any of them. Remember the "Better Deal" that Chuck Schumer promoted a few months ago? Neither do I. A sheer unwillingness to go for the jugular and to be a party that stands for economic equality is going to prevent democrats from doing anything in the future.

>>9988867
>>9988860
Oh absolutely, but Republicans and Dems aren't getting along at all and trying to work together, which was the crutch of what Obama wanted, but the divide has only increased. Maybe it's something cultural that has to change, like CNN downplaying the whole IN YOUR FACE POLITICS shit (if you know what I mean, the Hollywoodization of Washington)

If I were a Democrat, I'd wager Al Franken would be ideal. We've got an unintentional comedian; now lets try the real thing

>>9988258
>everyone else couldn't even predict it the day before.

Not true

2200 is way too far into the future. I predict economic decline between 2050-2070, as the boomer generation dies off

>>9988306
No Trump is a Nativist Populist who writes exaggerated books about his own greatness, that's pretty much Caesar.
Only thing left to do is annex Mexico

>>9988360
>>9988374

People who refuse to accept that Trump did not accidentally achieve everything he has achieve will continue to be confused and bitterly enraged by his actions and further achievements. Try being objective, I know it's very difficult for you. The very fact that this idiot celebrities like Mr. The Rock have completely missed the point of his victory will guarantee that the Democratic primary is an absolute circus, and that Trump will coast to reelection.

If you keep listening to the people whose political analysis was less accurate than a Chinese monkey-king, you will continue to be btfo and therefore eternally buttflustered.

>>9988332
Hitler

>>9988946
Like a Mexican I want this.

>>9988933
Most are already in retirement age and most will be long dead by then, more like the next 10-15 years

>>9988946
But ceaser was a prodigy, trump is an idiot. There is no similarity except some authoritarianism

>>9988786
Democrats are dead, Sanders is make his own party

>>9988258
the simpsons predicted it...

>>9988749
>>9988796

Paul Ryan: Tribune of the Plebs, Gaius Cassius Longinus

>>9988749
Who is Antony?

Pence?

>>9988960
>Trump will coast to reelection
oowee you almost had me

>>9989000
You guys are comparing a bunch of republican idiots to some of the greatest men in human history. Just no. A trump will never perform an alesia, fuck off

>>9988786

Lol, how about take Intor to US Politics 101 bub. Extremely basic political science knowledge indicated Trump would win, equally basic knowledge strongly suggests that the democrats gaining a majority in either chamber is extremely unlikely, let alone both (which, thanks to the way Senate seats are staggered, is almost impossible). Add in the fact that the GOP will control gerrymandering in 2020 and we're looking at Republican control of the house for a generation, much as the Democrats had between Roosevelt and Reagan.

All of this is utterly independent of aggregate public opinion or achievements/failures of the administration ("muh popular vote!" gerrymandering and the electoral college shit on your "popular vote" m8). Only an armed revolution is going to dislodge the GOP, and 90% of gun-owners and 75% of the military/police back them, so the left in America is unequivocally and irreparably fucked.

>>9989022

Let me also add, the Republican Party is a handful of state legislatures away from *unilateral constitutional amendments* and Trump will appoint at least one, probably two more Supreme Court justices. The only thing stopping the US from being a one-party state is friction between Trump and his own party, which is nowhere near enough either to dethrone him or to threaten the GOP's all but structurally-inevitable electoral dominance.

>>9989010

Did you think he would win in 2016?

Can you name a single plausible Democratic contender?

Can you explain how voter ID laws upheld by a 5-4 conservative SCOTUS and removal of nonwhite voters by ICE will help the Democrats to increase vote-margins in the South-East and South-West?

Can you explain how, when, and why economic globalism will become more appealing than centre-left economic populism in the midwest and rustbelt?

No? Then prepare you anus for 2020, m8.

You are all wrong, wrong, wrong.

We aren't even Rome, we're Carthage

>>9989045
>and removal of nonwhite voters by ICE
I'm honestly surprised that people actually believe the 3 million illegals meme.

>>9989022
>>9989038
>>9989045
The fact that the partisan Republicans in this thread are entirely focused on short-term electioneering goes to show how unequipped they are to deal with America's terminal decline.

>>9989047
explain anon

>>9988977
the guy ran a massive business empire and was elected president. He's eccentric, but he's not an idiot.

If Trump is Caesar, who's Brutus?

>>9989061
That's been a problem in the country since forever, most start preparing their reelection the moment they are in the office. Even when it's their last term they are still actively making connections for out of office life of setting up their party next year, that's why the country is full of career politicians. There needs to be a tally of perhaps a 100,000-500,000 people who could be called to office by a lottery, serving for a few months. The requirements for the eligible leaders is what is really voted on, to avoid cults of personalitys and the shitheap politics is now

>>9989064
We're a trade-based republic/empire ruled by a rich oligarchy. The military is primarily staffed by people seeking a paycheck, not citizens fulfilling a civic duty of fighting for the state. We rules the seas (and skies) but constantly fuck up in long-term ground engagements. We don't have that much of a small landowning yeoman/middle class left.

>>9989068
>ran a massive business empire and was elected president. He's eccentric, but he's not an idiot.
He's good at delegating, branding, stiffing his suppliers, and acting.

He's America's national spokesman. Outside of culture war shit his cabinet runs the show.

>>9989093
part of being intelligent is knowing your weaknesses and delegating accordingly.

>>9989056
>http://www.abc2news.com/newsy/11-california-counties-might-have-more-registered-voters-than-eligible

>The group says the number of registered voters was between 102 percent and 144 percent higher than the actual number of people of voting age, depending on the county.

>It broke down its findings by county like this: "Imperial (102 percent), Lassen (102 percent), Los Angeles (112 percent), Monterey (104 percent), San Diego (138 percent), San Francisco (114 percent), San Mateo (111 percent), Santa Cruz (109 percent), Solano (111 percent), Stanislaus (102 percent), and Yolo (110 percent)."

>>9989061

Utterly irrelevant, we are talking about positive and not normative political science. Whether you or I or anyone else like it, the facts are as I stated. It is deeply, intensely unlikely that the Democrats will take back anything within the next decade, and as long as people keep analyzing electoral politics on feelings and not objective and rational analysis, they will continue asking "W-what happened? Russia must have done this!"

Public opinion 101:
1. When GDP is consistently below 3% growth in the preceding presidential term, we have a "change election".
2. change elections do not favor the incumbent party.
3. the incumbent party almost never wins the presidency for three consecutive terms.

That is the 2016 election in a nutshell. Every factor beyond these three was just fireworks, random chance, and to a very small extent the relative strategy and motivation of the respective candidates and campaigns. Anyone who didn't predict a Trump win was believing emotion-based nonsense.

As I said, "positive" (the way things are) not "normative" (the way they ought to be). I'm not confident that the GOP will do anything great with the structural advantage they currently have, and as such it may not last as long as the Democrat's did in the mid-20th century, but that doesn't change the facts.

Believe it or not, the Democratic party has in fact drifted a great deal leftward since 2008, while the GOP has drifted to the centre. They are benefitting from these two trends (which only benefit when both parties move in the same direction, if both move to the centre or to the fringe simultaneously, then nobody benefits). It will take the Democrats a decade to reverse the leftward drift (if they even have the willpower to do it) and attack the GOP from the center as Bill Clinton did. Even he couldn't keep a House majority.

Due to their lack of local elected officials in "flyover states", the Democratic party at the national level is actually suffering severe "brain-drain" because local offices are faucets through which new talent flows to Washington. This is in part why almost all of the DNC's household names are over 60.

>>9989084
This basically describes late Rome.

>We're a trade-based republic/empire ruled by a rich oligarchy.
This describes Rome for most of its history
>The military is primarily staffed by people seeking a paycheck, not citizens fulfilling a civic duty of fighting for the state.
Also the gradual transition of the Roman military
>We rules the seas (and skies) but constantly fuck up in long-term ground engagements.
Late Rome. Have by far the largest, best equipped, and we'll trained army but still gets fucked by untrained tribes invading or sitting in a forest
>We don't have that much of a small landowning yeoman/middle class left.
Same as Rome with patricians owning huge swaths of land employed by only slaves

>>9989077
>that's why the country is full of career politicians
The political system has moved away from what you're describing since the 1920s, when politics was basically run by entire machines. Imagine if Democratic Party volunteers were personally responsible for distributing welfare, deciding who gets firearm permits, ran elections wholesale and owned entire towns. Outsiders like Trump wouldn't even be able to penetrate the party machine and get nominated, since they'd have to get approval from a bunch of regulatory bodies and party officials controlled by the machine bosses.

If anything, political parties should be more involved in day-to-day life. People should be more involved in politics as a social activity. We're already beginning to see this with radical socialists personally handing out food aid and changing broken tail-lights instead of working through established charities.

Why do certain people on this site want a collapse? I mean, if its like any normies who tell themselves that theyll survive a zombie apocalypse; you won't survive the first fortnight, no less be able to post about the gripes of a lost world.

>>9988318
>Trump
>end of oligarchy

put down the peace pipe, stanley

>>9989084

Don't compare 21st century America to Punic Wars era "High-Republican" Rome, compare it to the "Dying Republic" Rome. The Dying Republic had just finished a decades-long, bloody, and monstrously expensive counter-insurgency in Iberia after inheriting an empire it wasn't sure it wanted or could afford to police, and becoming the (known) world's sole superpower. Corruption, unemployment, social stratification, and nativism were the hot-button issues of the time. The Republic's traditions and institutions, mostly founded by a city-state, were faltering under the weight of an empire, and the masses were losing faith in them.

>>9988395
Unabridged. It's worthless abridged

>>9989100
Ah yes, the 11 California county survey by Judicial Watch, a think tank so committed to transparency that it consistently refuses to release its data sets for its "studies."

>It is deeply, intensely unlikely that the Democrats will take back anything within the next decade
Like I said, you're focused on short-term electioneering. We're talking about historical cycles spanning several decades.

Why even bother citing information from outdated studies from the 1940s and 60s when the US had a healthy tax regime, a government willing to raise taxes to pay off war debts, a strong internal economy and a solid post-war consensus on economic issues?

We're swimming in debt, most of our major trade partners are equally indebted, most of our supply chains are controlled by economic rivals, and a near one-party state controlled by a party unwilling to even confront these issues. The next major financial collapse is going to severely cripple America's ability to come to the defence of its allies or even defend itself beyond its own borders.

Terminal. Decline. Your political science is moving around deck chairs on the Titanic.

>>9989109
Late imperial Rome honestly suffered from many of the same problems Carthage did. I just thought we were comparing modern-day U.S. to late republican Rome.

>>9989120
You're probably right, though I would argue this didn't really start until Rome got sucked into greek conflicts and decided that it was better to conquer the area outright than constantly have to rush to the aid of its shitty allies

>>9989084
The Rome you are describing is early America up to the civil war/world wars. After that we became the commercial state you describe just as Rome became, only we are on a much larger scale and the chasm between the degenerates and undegenerates is more massive. There are some of us who want to die because of their guilty conscience about their race, and willingly emasculate themselves, and there are others who want our race to wash out the entire planet and create an intergalactic lebensraum. Romans were not so intense.

>>9989154
>There are some of us who want to die because of their guilty conscience about their race, and willingly emasculate themselves, and there are others who want our race to wash out the entire planet and create an intergalactic lebensraum. Romans were not so intense.
Internet politics is far from representative of the concerns of most Americans.

>>9988786
Who is gonna run? They literally have no big names besides Bernie "Reddit" Sanders

Didn't Spengler also postulate a "renaissance of the Medieval," when there would be a rebirth of Medieval thought and learning just as the Renaissance was a rebirth of Classical thought and learning?

>>9989175
Honestly, I don't think Bernie would run again. What with the history and his age.

My best guess is Schumer, Franken, Booker

>>9989117
>Why do certain people on this site want a collapse?
There's a difference between acknowledging the likelihood of a collapse in frank discussion and wanting a collapse to happen. You're seeing it more and more on 4chan as people detach from the media bubble. Those that don't tune out entirely are looking at the country's major institutions and how unwilling most people are to maintain or fix them.

Instead we're wasting too much time on secondary issues or cultural divisions. Instead of working to storm-proof coastal cities to prepare for China-caused climate change we're wasting our time on dumb shit like trannies using bathrooms or ethics in video game journalism or immigration. I've said before that the disease is terminal and I've given up on trying to fix it.

Best thing to do is learn survival skills from the preppers, learn how to shoot a sturdy hunting shotgun, collect silver and avoid having kids

>>9989199
Oprah. 2016 has shown that blacks will only vote in high numbers for one of their own and she'd massacre Trump in female voters. She also has that Berlusconi advantage in that she effectively owns her own media empire and can leap-frog over hostile media

I really want to see Kanye West run and win the D primary though

>>9989217
Fuck, I'd kill to see a Kanye v Kid Rock debate

while I drink and cry from under the covers about the shitshow the country has become

>>9988389
He was referring to a specific type of person: European man; non-whites will not suddenly become whites through mimicry. The Faustian spirit is a result of biology.

>>9989237
>non-whites will not suddenly become whites through mimicry
I've met and have fucked enough Japanese bitchii to know how wrong this assertion is.

>>9989232
If anything, the spectacle would at least be honest with the fact that elected officials are ciphers for moneyed lobbies

>>9989237
While I know that all of these blacks and muslims will never become European, I don't see how it is biological. What genes gave the West abstract thought?

>>9988646
>horseshoe effect

Get off my board.

>>9989305
Asking someone to point out particular genes is a weak strawman. People have turned out differently due to evolving in different environments for thousands of years. One people have invented nearly everything, mapped everything, continue to be society's innovative class, and are the only group without muddy phenotypes. It's inherent and beautiful, and whites must protect these aspects of ourselves by separating ourselves from the lower races.

>>9989321
I don't disagree with you, but how can you prove it was mainly biological instead of a combination of the evolution of culture, religion, and commerce?

>>9989321
One people have invented nearly everything, mapped everything, continue to be society's innovative class, and are the only group without muddy phenotypes.

Arabs?

It's all a figment of imagination. The learn'd men have gotten nowhere but in the realm of fantasy, and the only thing that has really lasted is time and space. 1000-1500 is in no way a Spring. No point in any of this shit I just wrote.

>>9989335
No, Persians.

>>9989237
>applying Darwinian biology to Spengler

Read the beginning of volume 2

>>9989331
Those things can condition biology over time, and culture is a reflection, or projection, of biology as well.

>>9989335
Arabs? Arabs are retarded, dude. Certain things are misattributed to them though so I know where you obtained this mistaken opinion. See below for example.

>>9989361
Persians to this day speak an Indo-European language, and Iran literally comes from the word "Aryan," so any innovation attributed to so-called Persians is a result of their European admixture. The same goes for India, where the people still speak an Indo-European language as well and the highest castes also have the highest amount of European admixture. Everything is tied to race and everything you've been taught in school and learned through post 1960s culture about race is wrong.

>>9989321
>One people have invented nearly everything, mapped everything

Middle easterners? Indians? Chinese? You lack of basic historical knowledge is pathetic, even worse than your delusional racism picked up from image board narratives created to help failures like yourself cope. Fuck off to your containment board, or better yet make a swastika out of rope, tie the two ends together and wrap it around your neck to join your little faggot leader in hell. Your mom will finally have the guilt of raising a dumbass off her mind

>>9989425
fuckhead, 90% of 'arabs' are just arabinised ME peoples, the same people that have always been there. You dont know shit so stop acting like you are the endpoint in all things arabs when I can bet my left nut the most you've ever read on them is /pol/ infographics. Why can't you faggots stay in your board

>>9989472
Excuse me? These are facts.

>>9989061

As opposed to Democrats deliberately trying to replace the electorate through immigration. Americans won't vote for us so we'll just import Mexicans and Somalis.

>>9989321
One people have also largely invented the technology that is contributing to the unchecked rise in global sea temperatures and plastic content, and despite their infinite wisdom have yet to find workable solutions to fixing it.

Inb4 self hating white man, I'm 100% hiberno-celtic

>>9989478
Semitic tribes were for ages confined to the Arabian peninsula, they have NOT always lived in the present day middle east. Please don't talk things you don't understand, you only waste the time of those of us capable of having intelligent conversations.

>>9989488
Whites are the only people who care about the environment. You want to help save the environment? Don't let your country a wasteland full of brown people.

>>9989472
>t. Butthurt

>>9989480
>facts
>posts this

sorry you forgot about
>agriculture
>irrigation
>cities
>stratified society
>organized religion
>civilisation
>biology
>chemistry
>economics
>calender
>astronomy
>batteries
>soap
>government
>soap
>trigonometry
>calculus
>arithmetic
>lenses
>glass
>writing
>alphabet
>animation
>metallugy
>receipt
>passport
>musical notion
>pants
>scissors
>swords
>currency
>coins
>banking
>caravans
>sailing
>sets up multiple civilizations lasting thousands of years
>majority believe in one of its religions
>ideas dominate on all continents
>literally everything we appreciate as a civilization wouldn't exist without them

This is just the ME, need I get into India or China? Stop with this superior race shit, we all heavily rely on others contributions.

>>9989495
By this logic the whole of the middle east is Turkish because they've been ruled by Turkish peoples for 700 years. There was very little Arab and ancient ME genetic mixture, the dominace came from their religion and language
>Please don't talk things you don't understand, you only waste the time of those of us capable of having intelligent conversations.
stop talking like a pompous faggot you've contributed nothing to this discussion and you're acting like you're in the middle of scholarly debate

>>9989503
>Whites are the only people who care about the environment.
That would actually be the chinese, the only country trying to shift from fossil fuels to nuclear power. Meanwhile white elites have been fighting bloody, costly middle eastern wars to maintain their oil supply lines.

>muh white race
White skin is a recessive trait and will inevitably die out. Why should I sacrifice my own free will to a shifty authoritarian ethnostate just to kick the can down the road 100 years? I'm not going to live that long and my celtic lineage would still be swallowed into an artifically constructed "white race" which has NEVER existed in nature.

>>9989516
>HEY MOM!!! I POSTED IT AGAINXDXD everyone knows if you disagree with me youre butthurt!!!

>>9989523
Are you trying to make my point? You sound like an emotional and envious non-white. We get it. You hate us yet still feel you have a right to not only live in the societies we have built, but post on a white culture board like /lit/. You should remove yourself from here, you don't belong here, nor do you belong in a white nation. You display the immaturity, enviousness, pathetic victimhood, and low intelligence that is causing our civilizational decline.

>>9989523
>>government
Truly non-whites are a plague.

>>9989541
You should try to make more coherent points if you expect to engage in serious dialogue. You were wrong. If you want to not be wrong in the future you should stop trying to speak about subjects you don't understand.

>>9989555
>white culture
>white nation
No matter how you try to meme these things into existence, they don't exist. There's no such thing as a "white" race.

>>9989555
lmao so that's it? That's the big rebuttal? 6 sentences of nothing but a butthurt faggot screaching. Kill yourself

>>9989555
lol

>>9989562
>your wrong because I said so!! I will refuse to engage your points because I just know more!!

Back to your containment board faggot

>>9989555
Checked. Also, eagles should never debate about flight with chickens anon, any non-whites trying to question our superiority should just be filtered. Not even worth discussing with them.

>>9989543
If you think Chinese people care about the environment you are deluded. Going by your last statement it seems clear you are an envious anti-white person, which bears the question of how you found your way to a white culture board. Take a wrong turn somewhere?

>>9989577
You sound like a parody, neck yourself.

>>9989564
Europeans are a race of people, the race responsible for 97% of all scientific and technological innovation. I'm sorry you aren't a part of that, but denying the obvious only makes you look even more foolish here.

Guys how do we prevent these faggots from invading every thread on this board? Is it a lost cause?

>>9989565
You didn't make a coherent point. Try again and I will respond to you. But I'm afraid you seem rather of the facts being raised in this discussion.

>>9989575
I've never posted on pol and this is not an argument. Please try again if you want to engage in serious discussion.

>>9989555
These low IQ cultural marxists will never understand, Anon.

Join my new Chan, it is free of Liberal faggotry unlike this shithole

bit ly 2xQpndB

>>9989596
>Why didn't you post on argument to my non argument complaint replying to an actual argument I have chosen to ignore because it ruins my narrative I base my failed existence on??!!!?

The rope waits for you anon, it'll be quick and painless

>>9989578
>ad hom dismissal of my point
The only thing you got right is that I'm not "white" as I have said before my race is solidly hiberno-celtic, a genotype distinct from all other European races
>>9989590
Like your false assertion about a "white" race, there is no one "european" race. There are in fact dozens of distinct european genotypes with literally hundreds of regional variations.

>>9989606
yes yes, liberals, cultural Marxists, cucks, whatever, just fucking leave

>>9989523
i dont like the domineering and uncompromising nordicism of much pol, but dude, half of those things on your list aren't even true, or have minor beginnings at best.

just a few
>battery
ben franklin, volta, literally couldn't find any non-euro on the wiki page
>organized religion
lol, this originated from the middle east?
ridiculous, proto-indo-europeans had a specific and indigenous belief system/religion
>economics
first mention on wiki is from china, but the economics we practice today is entirely western, and originated independently of china or the ME. the word is greek ffs
>government
im pretty sure most cultures have a government to some degree, even tribal africans have leaders
>astronomy
greeks again
>trig, calculus
greeks and other west euros, nothing to do with ME
>metallurgy
i dbout this is specific to the ME

Certain metals, notably tin, lead and (at a higher temperature) copper, can be recovered from their ores by simply heating the rocks in a fire or blast furnace, a process known as smelting. The first evidence of this extractive metallurgy dates from the 5th and 6th millennia BC[6] and was found in the archaeological sites of Majdanpek, Yarmovac and Plocnik, all three in Serbia

im too lazy to go down the rest, but needless to say, i guarantee half of those were either independent forms that are vaguely identifiable as something that euros later made but never drew from

>>9989618
>https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/08/ancient-tablet-reveals-babylonians-discovered-trigonometry/

>>9989610
Europeans are a race of people; you are referring to ethnic groups. If you're so proud that you feel the need to point it out to people, then be proud enough to want to protect it against the people who want to destroy it. I'm not your enemy here but your virtue signaling won't win you points.

>>9989594
Just simply counter them with facts:
- There is no singular "white," "european" or "caucasian" race. It is fact that there are dozens of genetically distinct european races
- A singular "white race" is a political fiction used by protestant elites in Europe, Australia and and North America to subvert class-based social organizing and help facilitate oligarchic rule

>>9989631
Again, those are different ethnic groups, not different races. Are you non-white? Is that why basic things like this are difficult for you to understand?

>>9989641
alright, so what is race if not an ethnic group?

>>9989618
>im too lazy to go down the rest
>wiki researching
really boils the potatoes

>>9989625
Anglo-saxons have raped, murdered and enslaved celts for hundreds of years. I'm not saying that you are one but you are parroting their talking points. You are advocating for a regime that would effectively erase genetic and cultural diversity among european races in some myopic quest of constructing a bastardized "white" monoculture ruled by the same soulless anglo-protestant oligarchy

>>9989643
Something you should get at least a cursory grasp of before you jump into another conversation like this. My name ain't google, amigo.

>>9989657
>You are advocating for a regime that would effectively erase genetic and cultural diversity among european races in some myopic quest of constructing a bastardized "white" monoculture ruled by the same soulless anglo-protestant oligarchy

Where in the world did you get this idea? I did not imply anything remotely like that.

>>9989641
Like I've said before, no I'm not "white." YOU aren't "white." That's because a singular white race is a political fiction that is less than a century old.

YOU ignore distinct differences in haplogroups so you can wave your magic wand and declare all europeans to be near-indistinguishable from one another.

>>9989660
You have to be able to back up your views in order for them to have some validity, Anon.

>>9989641
>>9989643
>>9989660
Race is the more folksy, common sense answer to not directly visible things like haplogroups or whatever it was. It's taking something with a lot of science and boiling it down to be more easily grasped.

>>9989681
>Race is the more folksy, common sense answer to not directly visible things like haplogroups or whatever it was. It's taking something with a lot of science and boiling it down to be more easily grasped.
Truly, post fact.

>>9989687
You can't source a folk rumour that's actually the point.

Are Greeks white????!

>>9989672
You are assuming too much and that seems to be the basis for why this dialogue doesn't seem to be working. Even talking about haplogroups, that's a perfectly reasonable way to distinguish Europeans from non Europeans.

>>9988278
> implying reactionary Islamic authoritarianism wouldn't eventually result in secular degeneracy

>>9989697
Except it would dictate that European is a culturally unified group (is it even though?) not a biologically unified group.

>>9989678
I have no obligation to explain how race differs from ethnicity. That 101 stuff is on you.

>>9989660
Funny how you talk big but you can't even cite basic facts on european haplogroups. I can:

FACT: Slavic and finno-urgic peoples possess profiles with distinct turkic/mongol genetic lineages, an inheritance from the mongol empires
FACT: Many Mediterranean peoples have moorish and semitic lineages from the Roman, Byzantine and Islamic empires

I could go on but these differences are thousands of years old in some cases. They speak of dozens of distinct races. There is no one white race.

A white ethos tate would destroy this diversity in the name of a "white" globalist oligarchy

>>9989702
Everything works on a spectrum. Northwest Europeans are very homogeneous and distinct; as you move east and south there is more admixture from north Africa and elsewhere.

>>9989707
Wow brah those are groundbreaking facts that haven't been used as memes here for a thousand years

>>9989703
That's because a proper definition of race is impossible, its nature as a folk concept prevents it from having any standardized definition.

>>9989698
I've met iranian kurds and they openly joked about mohammed being a pedophile.

>>9989703
This is literally a SJW dodge. "It's not my job to educate you!"

>>9989714

>I'm dumb: the post

Read a fucking book

>>9989703
I understand it well enough now, its based on folksy common sense.

>>9989707
What amuses me is the idea that European Jews aren't white.

>>9989707
I know all that and I'm not sure who here is talking about a "white globalist oligarchy," but it isn't me. Didn't I just say that, though?

>>9989712
Celtic and basque races being partial exceptions

>>9989713
What do you mean?

>>9989697
Haplo groups also show that europeans are themselves genetically diverse and NOT a single race

>>9989714
These things can be understood and determined through genetics. Your "white people don't exist" narrative is weak and stupid and jewish.

>>9989716
What makes a SJW dodge any different from any other dodge?

>>9989717
Which one? If it denies actual genetics that show more "common sense" perceptions boil down to a visual simplification that would be interesting, like, some proof that all Asians can be considered a genetically homogeneous group would be interesting, I thought they showed the opposite of that.

>>9989733
Genetics shows that it's infinitely more complicated than our memey, mostly visual way of looking at it.

>>9989727
People post about the finns especially being mongols all the time. People post about Slavs/Italians (particularly southern italians)/Greeks not being white all of the time.

Do you only browse a single board? Fuck man, even spee posts this shit every day.

>>9989736

Yes the point of race theory is to show that genetics boils people down to homogeneous groups, well done

>>9989744
So it exists to, ignore actual genetics?

>>9989732
There were various groups that mixed with closely related groups to form what is today European peoples. That's not an excuse for why multiculturalism is good though. Whites mixing with other groups is not good and should be protected against.

>>9989718
>What amuses me is the idea that European Jews aren't white.
They are given temporary "whiteness" depending on how useful they are in Israel to white protestant oligarchs.

>>9989722
So why are you trying to force many different european races into a single political artifical creation?

>>9989742
It's not very complicated. Who should be excluded from white societies for not qualifying is fairly cut and dry.

>>9989757
It's actually very arbitrary when using real genetics instead of a mostly aesthetic sort of collective want.

>>9989757
That is very much an oversimplification. Slave Greeks and southern Italians want a word.

>>9989736
>What makes a SJW dodge any different from any other dodge?
It's not, I'm just pointing out how he's falling victim to idpol.

>>9989753
I am pro-ethnic nationalism in Europe. I'm American though so I'm making a broader distinction that should not be offensive to you assuming you're the guy who keeps telling me he's celtic. I support you as someone who wants to be a protector of that in every way.

>>9989743
So you agree with me that these europeans are actual, distinct races?

>>9989770
>I am pro-ethnic nationalism in Europe. I'm American though

>>9989769
/leftypol/'s oversimplification of identity politics that conveniently ignores most identity politics and considers it valid was designed specifically to suck up to the other boards on that website, it's disingenuous, and intentionally wrong. This is why /pol/ likes it so much.

>>9989770
>I am pro-ethnic nationalism in Europe. I'm American though
THE NEW WORLD WAS A MISTAKE

>>9989748
And yet you're trying to force many different european genetic lineages into a single political construct that has NO BASIS in geopolitical history.

>>9989747

Yeah it exists to ignore science because critical race theory is about feelings and critical race theorists have never even heard of science let alone empiricism. You should write them and let them know of your discovery

>>9989766
Not sure what you mean by "real" genetics, but again these things are not very complicated to determine.

>>9989767
Not really. There is a spectrum but most Italians are white. Sicilians have about 10% mud admixture which accounts for their lower IQ and higher rates of aggression, but the mainland has little or none.

>>9989784
You know this whole time I thought you were just denying that.

>>9989787
Simple question, do you count Ashkenazi Jews as White European?

>>9989771
No, not entirely. I think you're ignoring the avalanche of similarities, while polfags over simplify.

>>9989780
I want to separate people based on race so white genetics can be preserved. You are poorly trying to argue that such a thing is impossible to determine when it's clearly not. What can I tell ya?

>>9989770
I'm not going to let some yankee mutt dictate what race I belong to. Celts are distinct people and must defend themselves as a culture from the anglo elites that have consistently used us as slaves and cannon fodder. "White" nationalism is a code world of re-establishing a protestant oligarchy and has its eyes et on dominating all other european peoples

>>9989799

Post a picture of yourself

>>9989775
I mean idpol as it exists on 4chan.

>>9989801
Lmao Celts got annihilated by Italics too

>>9989793
Absolutely not. I understand they're about half European genetically but their behavior has displayed that they are the biggest threat to white people's interests. Jews define themselves based on this difference as well.

>>9989801
>Celts are distinct people and must defend themselves as a culture from the anglo elites that have consistently used us as slaves and cannon fodder.
You're probably a Celtic Norman mongoloid you know.

>>9989807
I'm avoiding these circles nowadays, it's used the same way right?

>>9989811
>about half European genetically

I don't know why people are humoring you, you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>9989811
Its actually 100% European

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/37821/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/

>>9989801
>"White" nationalism is a code world of re-establishing a protestant oligarchy and has its eyes et on dominating all other european peoples
No, it's not. It's about protecting ourselves from the brown people flooding into our nations. Try to gain a better grasp of the big picture. You're stuck in a small framed mindset.

>>9989787
Andalusian Spaniards, Greeks, most Italians in Sicily and in the southern mainland, Greeks, Maltese and Cypriots all have distinct Asian lineages.

>>9989818
Ashkenazi jews are genetically around 50% Italian going back to the Roman Empire. Look it up, that's just a fact.

>>9989835
>Look it up

Make me.

>>9989827
And Maltese niggas speak a dialect of Arabic as well

>>9989799
See? You want to separate white people and cram them into an ethnostate. And yet this has zero basis in cultural political or economic reality and would inevitably result in a pre-WWI powder keg with renewed tension among european races with two or three generations. Assuming this wouldn't just result in a fascist dictatorship.

>>9989801
>I'm not going to let some yankee mutt dictate what race I belong to. Celts are distinct people and must defend themselves as a culture from the anglo elites that have consistently used us as slaves and cannon fodder.
I recognise that patter, happy birthday you mad cunt

>>9989841
Perhaps this attitude is why you are ignorant about these things. Not much I can do about that though, is there?

>>9989844
This is about scope. I'm talking about an existential threat that exists today, and you're talking about hangups that have long passed.

>>9989812
The norman-celtic mix is fairly unique to Hibernian lineages and counts as a distinct race with centuries of history.
>>9989817
Probably I guess? I don't obsess over it as much as I used to
>>9989819
"White" globalists BTFO
>>9989825
You are stuck in a totalitarian mindset. You want to erase thousands of years of genetic diversity and culture in europe to preserve the remnants of a 19th century oligarchy.

>>9989872
>You are stuck in a totalitarian mindset. You want to erase thousands of years of genetic diversity and culture in europe to preserve the remnants of a 19th century oligarchy.

You're delusional, dude. Nothing I've said in this thread even remotely hints that I hold this opinion, despite your continued insistence otherwise.

>>9989865
They haven't fucking passed you prod stooge, it's just that you can't destroy us so you're trying to trick us into assimilating into a fake political construct you FUCK

See you are scared that celts might align with culturally similar races, like the hispanics or the kurds and construct a humanist holistic alternative to protestant globalism so you're pulling out all the stops.

It won't work

>>9989885
>You're delusional, dude.
Leave it to the "white" globalist stooge to try and paint his opponent as mentally ill after he's been wholly outed as a morally bankrupt apologetic for a failing, world-threatening oligarchic project.

>>9989543
Wrong, white skin is not recessive

>>9989848
You're talking entirely out of your ass and I'm making fun of you. Looking these things up is exactly what I did every time I've argued with types like you, and it only reinforced my anti-racism, because I came to realize that none of you actually know what you're talking about and just circlejerk around the same five papers from the same handful of politically motivated authors when the majority of researchers in biology, psychology, anthropology, and sociology, have long since realized the scientific invalidity of the "race" concept.

>>9989889
I'm sorry you are apparently paranoid and insane.

>>9989911
I'm not that guy but I'm a Catholic and I generally have more sympathy for Catholics than non-Catholics, regardless of skin color. White Protestants are on the same level as Muslims for me.

>>9989902
I said Ashkenazi jews were genetically around half Italian on average. You said I was wrong but I am right, you are wrong, and that's that. I shrug at your butthurt over the situation.

>>9989199
>Booker

Correct

>>9989917
You follow a universalist religion that was handed down to you by the jews who have created the secular universalist religion your views differ very little from. What you said inspires no surprise from me.

>>9989900
White skin is very recessive in the sense that black skin is also very recessive.
>>9989917
Some muslims have likewise detached themselves from direct caliphate/peninsular arab influence and the soulless binary morality it enforces. Sufis in parts of Pakistan, many Bosnians and Albanians, berbers, and turkic peoples in central Asia have synthesized local and often more spiritually-fulfilling interpretations of islamic texts. The kurds go even further and situate their religion against the primacy of their distinct cultural history and deny gulf arab extremists their demands of submission

Likewise I encounter protestant (especially Anglican and pentecosal) cultural imperialism, they simply assume that it is their natural duty to bring their way of life to other europeans and christians and react in anger when their puritanism is rejected

>>9989971
Shit I also forgot the druze. They got hangups about marrying outside the religion but are otherwise very chill

>>9989939
You follow NO belief system except to claim that past accomplishments (of which you have dubious connection to) justifies your duty to establish imperium over european peoples, turn us into cannon fodder for further expansion.

"White" nationalism is a sociological VIRUS. It has no human belief system other than a single-minded command to SPREAD. Whites r grate and therefore they must replicate themselves as much as possible and consume as much as possible. No matter how much plastic gets shit into the ocean or wars started or oil belched into the atmosphere. The only goal is to spread and find another host.

>>9989939
Peace be with you, Anon.

>>9990079
I respect Benedict's adherence to tradition but I was disappointed by his inaction on trying to heal the church after all the sex scandals. I know him and John Paul were facing conservative pressure from the cardinals to try and preserve ecclesiastical sovereignty but it shouldn't have come at the expense of innocent children and the reputation of the Church of St. Peter. Francis is taking baby steps and also doing good in spreading the gospel but there needs to be a thorough cleansing of these ghosts...