/lit/ - Literature

they are wrong if they're wrong dude. not wrong because of what some faggot says about post modernism. i know this is just b8, but m8, it's fucking annoying

>>9514838
We have this same thread every single day sperglord

>>9514858
I'd bet money OP didn't post this as b8. Peterson is charismatic, passionate, and super alluring to mildly intelligent young men who either didn't go to a proper college or don't understand history and literature and philosophy.

I'm fine with these threads.

>>9514838

Peterson clearly has no idea what it even means, his understanding of postmodernism wouldn't fly in a first year undergraduate philosophy course.

>>9514869
It's just the new fad author. I've seen /lit/ go from saying nothing at all about certain authors and books to literally filling the front page with at least five threads.

It doesn't actually stop, they just move onto another book or author. Jordan Peterson just happens to be that fad, at the moment.

He'd make a lot more sense if he just updated his damned vocabulary. Most of the time he says "post-modernism" when he means post-structuralism

>>9514858
>>9514878
This. I don't go on /lit/ but if anyone would have an opinion on it, it would be you guys. And in the past I've taken 4chans advice on certain things with regards to media (with some important exceptions).

I studied engineering at so religion, philosophy and literature has always been missing.

I find this guy fascinating and I've been listening to his lectures on youtube. I'm literally hooked. I now want to go read Jung and Nietzsche. But I was just curious about what he was saying about post-modernism and if it is true or just ramblings of an old man born in le wrong generation.

>>9514913
What's the difference?

>>9514913
It's weird that you can see he's trying to attack post-structuralism but you don't see he uses postmodernism precisely because it allows him to go beyond pure post-struc and extend to any author that falls anywhere outside of his personal cannon.

>>9514940
>What's the difference?
Think about most of what you've heard from Peterson about post-modernism. Most of what he's been saying is actually specifically post-structuralism, not pomo, even though they're historically linked

The rejection of notions of truth and fact and categorization; everything he's mentioned like that; that's post-structuralism.

>>9514838
>Stirner
>Postmodernist
What?

And yes, Peterson's right. Postmodernists are absolute pseudo-intellectual trash

>>9514955
Name 2 post modern authors and why they are trash

>>9514953
That's because Peterson has either had a very poor reading of post-structuralism or didn't read the authors at all, only american academics who went to some pretty retarded places with post-structuralism (aka the people who started calling it postmodernism in the first place).

>>9514940
I also remember my polish art history teacher from back when I was 13 hating post-modern art and used Tracey Emin's "My Bed" and Marcel Duchamp's Fountain as examples.

>>9514953
So what is post-modernism then?

>>9514955
Oh my bad, I thought I read on wikipedia that he's a post-modernist. I must have got that mixed up with something else

>>9514963
>Danielewski
Wrote a pretty good popcorn book and then went back and filled it with unbearable rambling bohemian nothingness, effectively ruining his work
>Derrida
Needless obscuring of language without any meaningful or aesthetic benefits

>>9514838
virtually every serious academic today considers Derrida to be an obscurantist with strictly facile arguments.

Postmodernism is a separate beast, though. But Derrida is a joke.

>>9514970
That's what happens when you think wikipedia works better than actually reading. Duchamp is modern art, Tracey Emin's career started after post-modernism had already begin it's decline and what you read is that Stirner is a huge influence on post-modern philosophy - something you would know if you had actually read any philosophy and not browsed wikipedia and youtube mindlessly for days on end.

>>9514971
It's great that in two examples you showed you don't understand at least three things (post-modernity, literature, philosophy)

>>9514976
>Name 2 post modern authors and why they are trash

How about you ask a full fucking question if you want a specific answer, retard?

>>9514940
>I studied engineering at (uni) so religion, philosophy and literature has always been missing.

Don't fucking use that as an excuse you sorry sack of shit. What are you a fucking Biomed brainlet.

>>9514913
>>9514953
Same shit, pick a different name for your identity-group those are gone.

>>9514971
I honestly don't get how people have such a hard time reading Derrida.

>>9514982
I think the main issue is the labor of reading vs quality of work ratio, not just the labor of reading

>postmodernism

nobody seriously gives a fuck about the so called "post debates" for nearly two decades......apart from undergraduates.

can we stop having these threads?

>>9514987
>apart from undergraduates.
They are our future graduates, anon

>>9514984
He's not hard to read and he is rewarding. What's the issue?

>>9514974
I just don't know where to begin. A few years ago I got about a quarter way through Das Kapital Vol. 1 but stopped. I'm not so big into economics so it was incredibly dull.

I am interested in Liberalism, so I guess that means reading JSM and maybe Bentham since he founded the uni I went to.

>>9514976
What are robust post-modern philosophers that people should read?

>>9514981
Electronic Engineering with Nanotechnology. But you're right, its not excuse. I'm a bad person

>>9514997
>and he is rewarding
that's where you're pee pee poo poo, friendo

>>9514994
Holy ....

>>9514838
>foucault is alright
>postmodernism is cancer though (by postmodernism i'm referring to post-structuralists like derrida or deleuze)
???

@9515001
(You)

>>9515005
I believe what he said was that the post-modernists had some brilliant minds among them even if JBP disagreed with them

>>9515015
Yeah, he said that Derrida is extremely intelligent. Perhaps he meant he was sinister

>>9514913
>>9514950
I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to go any more specific out of fear of a defamatory lawsuit, a lot of post-structuralists are extremely sensitive to criticism, it happened to Bloom and it'll happen to Peterson.

>>9515045
Most post-structuralists aren't even alive anymore, you fucking retard. I mean, most of them didn't even care for american academics either, the only time I've ever seen any of them react to criticism was when Derrida (rightfully) called Sokal dishonest.

>>9515045
It's also okay to admit that he makes mistakes. I quite like him, I find his lecture fascinating and his more self-helpy stuff has actually helped me turn my life around to some extent. But he's made plenty of mistakes. He can't know everything.

Of course, that's what I thought about the Bill C-16/OHRC fiasco but after looking into it further I realized he was 100% right

No one hasn't recommended any good post-modern literature

>>9515086
>No one hasn't recommended any good post-modern literature
Re-read your sentence

>>9515086
Gravity's Rainbow.

>>9515096
how about half-decent then?

>>9515104
>no one hasn't
You're saying every single person so far has recommended good post-modern literature

>>9515107
oh yeah my bad

>>9515109
It's okay dude grammar is a social construct :)

>>9515112
no bully pls

>>9514838
He is half-right about Derrida, but I would urge anyone who hears criticism of other people from people they respect to read the actual works of the people they criticize.

>>9514838
>Is Jordan Peterson right about post-modernism?
if you haven't read anything about postmodernism how would you know?

peterson is okay tho.

>>9515162
thats why i made this thread, to ask people who have read stuff about postmodernism

>>9515135
I'll read derrida like I intend to finish Marx. Its on the list

>>9515171
>to finish Marx
What the fuck do you mean by that

Marx wrote faster than most people can read, there are entire shelves in libraries devoted to his bibliography

>>9515178
Mainly Das Kapital, since that's the work that is lauded as his most important

>>9515171
>thats why i made this thread, to ask people who have read stuff about postmodernism
yeah but our opinions will only be based on our subjective ones. you yourself need to start reading the works and then critic petersons and ours.
if not you're just wasting time.

Why do these fucking philosophers always grasp for some boogeyman to blame for all misery? Maybe people just aren't very happy species. Maybe being a biblecuck and cleaning your room 24/7 won't magically solve your depression. Maybe the age of plenty gave humans time for good, long introspection, and they didn't find much inside.

No, it's all gotta be ebil marxist/postmodernist/globalist plan to overtake humanity for reasons

>>9515005
>>9515005
>postmodernism is cancer though (by postmodernism i'm referring to post-structuralists like derrida or deleuze)
why does he like budget-Deleuze, but not Deleuze himself?

>>9514838
>>9514838
Even if you think Peterson is badly misinterpreting post-structuralist thought, which he probably is considering he's pretty much admitted he hasn't read them properly, you can't deny there are american academics who do interpret these thinkers as saying exactly these things and who do not recognise any difference between post-modernism and post-structuralism, and that these academics form the mainstream of (US at least and I would say anglo) university culture in the humanities and social sciences, as well as having a disproportionate influence in the media etc.

What I don't like about Peterson though is more to do with the way he performs these mental gymnastics with his reading of Nietzsche to make him out to be something other than proto-postmodern. Plus, related to this, his "the dominance heirachy is the oldest and most basic thing there is" spiel is exactly the kind of postmodern reducing complex human behaviour to ooga booga power relations, that he claims to be against and the exact same idea that's created the current sitch regarding free speech and discourse (i.e. that everythings just about power so when we engage in dialogue, it's ALWAYS a destructive violent struggle and NEVER a constructive thing where we both come away with new ideas and stuff).

That's my two cents anyway

>>9515206
Well Nietzsche the philosopher certainly was proto-postmodern.

But Nietzsche was trying to solve problems that was beyond mere philosophizing though, which is obviously why he wrote Thus Spake Zarathustra.

>>9515202
Deleuze is actually often the exception for a lot of people who dislike Post-modernism.

>>9515206
>proto-postmodern
Stop.

looks like postmodernism became this new thing for the "intellectually superior" to obsess about

timeline:

>religion
>game journalism
>feminism
>social justice warriors
>"cultural marxism"
>postmodernism

what will be 2018's spooky trend ? my bet is on some misinterpreted take on accelerationism or deep ecology

>>9515228
>>proto-postmodern
>Stop.
Name 1 (One(Uno(A Single))) problem with my assertion

>>9515235
REDDIT

SPACING

>>9515228
>Deleuze is actually often the exception for a lot of people who dislike Post-modernism.
makes sense really, you can't hate this legends philosophy.

>>9515246
>>9515228
I don't know much about Deleuze, but I've heard him referred to as basically an old school metaphysician. How much truth is there to that and does that have something to do with it?

>>9515240
Jesus would be a proto-postmodernist under most definitions.

>>9515235
Well it should bother anyone that universities are spewing out political propaganda to impressionable 18 year olds, regardless of what the content of that political propaganda is.

>>9514878
>Peterson is charismatic
I really don't see how people can find him charismatic. He's not a boring or bad speaker sure, so in that sense maybe he's charismatic, but he just seems really anxious to me.

>>9515258
somewhat, I remember reading a conference text of him and he criticized philosophers after Plato for not questioning "what is." He's an enjoyable thinker once you start piecing his philosophy together, and read his essays on Proust, Cinema and other philosophers.

>>9515206
That's not what he says about the dominance hierarchy at all. He says that we transcended the violent and destructive nature of this domination and worked together, the two beta chimps overpowering the tyrant alpha chimp being an example. In this sense he's basically restating Hobbes' Leviathan that the chaotic nature of human beings can only be avoided with a covenant.

>>9515281
Can you explain to me why Badiou thought Deleuze was a crypto-fascist?

>>9515258
Deleuze was a crypto-fascist.

>>9515300
I haven't read Badiou yet, and I'm still in the process of reading Deleuze himself. I'm only giving you my basic understanding of him thus far.

>>9515291
What he actually says is that competition and cooperation aren't mutually exclusive, which is something he took from Jean Piaget.

The idea that a social hierarchy must always depend on the domination of one group over the other is wrong, because social hierarchies are maintained by the tacit cooperation of everyone.

Like he says, nobody brings a basketball to play chess, which by definition constitutes cooperation, even though playing chess automatically means there's only 1 winner of the game.

>>9515303
t. Badiou

>>9515259
>>9515259
Yes, but Jesus might be distantly proto-postmodern in some sense, but Nietzsche is one of the thinkers that almost all the postmodernists namecheck as a direct influence, much much more so than Marx, or even Freud.

jordan pee-pee tear son

>>9514838

I dunno, I didn't read any of that shit. I'll take his word for it though, sounds good.

you guys are far more well read than I am, its inspiring. I have same feeling as I did when I first went on /mu/ back in 2011

>>9514878
When did Peterson discuss anything with Sam Harris a second time?

>>9515358
It's the same in every board - about 15% of its population actually knows their shit and is well versed in the subject, 50% are well-intentioned meme-spewing marionettes, 20% are shitposting retards and the other 15% are blogposters who want a friendship simulator.

>>9515379
Its especially interesting on /vg/, every general on there is like a microcosm of a board.

i don't respect any belief that is not postmodernism or postmodern christianity.

>>9515291
>we transcended the violent and destructive nature of this domination and worked together, the two beta chimps overpowering the tyrant alpha chimp being an example
This is true definitely, and important to emphasise, but it's still reductionist.

We haven't even in this case escape asserting that even cooperation results as a means of defending ourselves from domination. Which it obviously does. But this also ignores the fact that there is something else going on regarding communication which has nothing to do with power or domination except on some very abstract and clutching reading of the communicative act.

Namely, meaningful and informative communication has its instrumental worth, to avoid domination, but also an intrinsic worth, simply to bridge horizons with other people. Communication/cooperation has to have an intrinsic worth, or we would only ever communicate with people on the same level of the dominance hierarchy as us, and experience tells you that this isn't the case.

>>9515307
>The idea that a social hierarchy must always depend on the domination of one group over the other is wrong, because social hierarchies are maintained by the tacit cooperation of everyone.
Sure, this is a step up from the simplistic idea that everything is just domination, but it's still just power relations, as if no other motivations for communication exist. And the bridging impulse might not be as old as the dominating impulse, but it's certainly just as pronounced.

>>9515264
>tfw all profesors are modernists that believe in progress, ethics and morals.
>tfw smug postmodernist not giving a fuck

>>9515300
A local conclusion to Anti-Oedipus is that basically fascism is the most natural state of man, the problem arises is that you can also read Deleuze as a Transcendentalist, combine theses two readings and well, Deleuze basically becomes Anarcho-hilter.

>>9515396
>Sure, this is a step up from the simplistic idea that everything is just domination, but it's still just power relations,

So a basketball game is just "power relations" ?

>>9515406
wat.

>>9515413
Apply postmodernism to postmodernism and watch postmodernism break down.

>>9515406
ohh boy. I now know why the "aestheticization of politics" always sounded like a good/not fundamentally bad idea to me.

>>9515417
No what I was saying is that getting the conclusion that Deleuze is a fascist runs counter to his idea of a body without organs.

>>9515412
No, but the things that make it more than just about dominance lie outwith any conversation about rules etc. and are more about the personal content of the game for the players and viewers. This personal content can't be accounted for with reference to "dominance hierarchies".

I'm not disagreeing with anything he's said, I just don't think it's the whole picture of human behavior to say that there is only competition and cooperation and nothing outside that. And I don't think he believes that, just that he's way overdeveloped the dominance/power aspect of our behavior and way underplayed that intrinsic and communicative aspect.

Not really explaining this well, but hopefully you get what I mean

>>9515454
Yeah but that is his critique though. That there's more about "the game" than just domination and power.

>>9514838

It's pretty straightforward in my opinion. He is obviously 'not well read' on 'postmodernism'. But postmodernism is a vague concept. He's just decided to dismiss a load of writers which he, and many others, vaguely classify as 'postmodernist'.

The question is, is he justified in dismissing those writers? In my opinion, pretty much yes. There is a lot of content in those writers that is worth looking in to, but there are also alot of dead ends and especially, endless mazes.

He is trying to 'start again' in his study of humans, using Jung seriously and so forth, which in my opinion is great. Jung seems to be ignored by most of Peterson's anglo-american positivist colleagues, and the 'postmodern' writers he vaguely refers to are also antithetical to Jung.

The main writer he dismisses which I would recommend is Foucault. Not that the others are not worth reading, but Foucault adds to the areas which Peterson talks about rather than detracts from them.

>>9515473
Sure, but his account of the part of "the game" that isn't domination and power, i.e the team-playing, cooperative part, is portrayed by him, as far as I can tell. as being basically a reaction to the threat of being dominated and not something that people do without needing to for any pragmatic reason, just because it's intrinsically worthwhile.

I'm not an expert on him and I haven't read Piaget so maybe I'm wrong about this, but I haven't ever heard him talk about communication etc. except as something we do to avoid domination and power being exercised over us.

>>9514838
JP is right in the sense that a good knowledge of reality is incompatible with human flourishing.

But I think he is wrong in the side he chooses, memes and ignorance to keep monkeys happy in denial of truth.

Ray Brassier chooses truth over monkey comfy and sees philosophy itself, knowledge itself, as leading to human extinction. That seems like the way to go because intelligent people can not deny truth, it's a pathological thing.

>>9514838
>Stirner, post modernist

What did OP mean by this.

>>9515270
I like him because he seems extremely sincere. Last time he was on JRE he started tearing up talking about sorting yourself out and archetypes and sheit.

He's a really well intentioned man. I think he's full of shit but he is sincerely trying to make the world better.

>>9515270
Charismatic in that he conveys that what he is talking about is DEADLY, DEADLY serious. Its NO JOKE and you bloody well better get yourself sorted out because, evil EXISTS, It DOES and if you think you couldn't be a nawzi, you're DEAD WRONG, bucko.

>>9515503
more like post moron lmao

>>9515503
He really is, read him carefully.

>>9515412
Obviously. 10 men fight over a ball. They group into two teams of 5. Each team is trying to dominate the other. Within a team, each player is trying to work towards the goal of dominating the other by taking turns dominating and submitting to each other. Every time you pass, you are submitting to your team mate. Each time you drive, you are asserting dominance. Only one player ever controls the ball at any point in time. At that moment, they are the most dominant player. Everyone else is literally fighting over position in order to either be the next one to dominate, or to help a teammate be the next one to dominate. But it's all a game. As soon as people walk away, the power structures (mostly) disappear. Power relationships are real. Doesn't make them the most effective way to compartmentalize the world though. There's hardly a point to examining the existence or types of power structures in basketball, unless that somehow helps you discover better tactics and strategies for winning the game. It's really complicated to try and analyze anything from this perspective. Trying to deconstruct a single basketball game could take a book. Trying to catalog all the power interactions in society is a fool's errand. And what's the point of it? Knowing how things are can't tell you anything about how things ought to be. The modernists built a beautiful machine. The postmodernists realized it didn't really do anything. The problem isn't really postmodernism itself, but the people who use the complexity and ambiguity of post-modernism to hide their untethered ambition. Fascism and nihilism are often seen as modernist extremes, but that's not true. They are the only possible reactions to modernism, to the machine. Absurdism is the last stop of modernism, because you face the meaningless and basically act like it isn't there while openly acknowledging it--you work the machine because, why not? Fascism is the worship of the machine--you work the machine because the machine is beautiful and transcendent. Nihilism is the worship of the do-nothing--you neither work the machine, nor abandon it, doing whatever you will, for it is all the same. It's all true, but if we don't come up with another answer, we all die. Some argue with how best it should be done, but maybe we should simply answer the question we've been afraid to ask--why?

>>9515497
I agree with this. I'd rather clean my room and get laid than continue my search for truth, which Will probably lead to human extinction, but at the same time it seems childish to concern myself with something that large

>>9515575
I agree with most of what you say, but lets not kid ourselves.

Firstly, you are playing basketball. Which means that 10 people agreed to play basketball and follow the rules. This constitutes cooperation by definition. Then there is the overarching meta-game going on if you're a basketball player. What happens in the court obviously has the characterizations that you are describing, but if you are playing the game, so to speak, only by yourself(e.g being egotistic with the ball and trying to gain all the glory for yourself), you will be hated by your team mates, and not invited to the next game, which means that when you are playing basketball, you are simultaneously playing basketball but also playing at being a specific kind of human being.

And you need to do both things correctly in order to continue being invited to further games. Which begs the question if there is a way to correctly play the game, but also to correctly play a human being, such that you will be invited to all sets of possible games?

This is Piaget's theory of an "equilibrated state". You get what you want, but so does everyone else.

>>9515517
I always get a lump in my throat when I see him staring to tear up during a discussion. I do the exact same thing sometimes, I start tearing up during conversations I'm really passionate about even if they aren't sad. I had always felt foolish for doing it but seeing someone else like him doing the same made me feel a lot better

>>9515178
>Marx wrote faster than most people can read
so did L Ron Hubbard

>>9514838
Do you think he is going to get as famous as Zizek? Like the Zizek of the Right?

I know they are completely different but they both talk and write about society and post-modernism. Zizek is more qualified as he in the sense he has more experience and wrote shit tons of books and articles but then I have never read a Peterson book because I know so little about Jung.

>>9515636
...yeah? I wasn't saying I like Marx or am a Marxist, if that's what you thought I was implying.

>>9515235
>what will be 2018's spooky trend
egalitarianism

>>9515644
>Like the Zizek of the Right?
PETERSON ISN'T RIGHT-WING, CUT IT OUT

But yes, I think he could potentially rise to that level if that's what he wanted. I'm not actually sure what he wants. I know he's glad that more people are seeking out differing opinions like his but it sure seems like fame has done a number on him

It's all up to how much he puts himself out there

>>9515180
Nobody has read ALL Das Kapital

>I read vol I guys can I talk about the intrinsic value of goods and the proletariat, am I a marxist/marxian yet?

>>9515644
>I know they are completely different

They're actually not that different. The real difference between them is that Zizek is a Materialist and Peterson is a Romantic, which might sound like a huge difference, but Zizek is very influenced by Lacanian psychoanalysis, which has a lot of the same soundbites as Jungian psychology, they just believe that causes are different.

I was so excited to find someone who's a modern day amalgam of Hobbes, Nietzsche, and Jung, all my favorite writers, but /pol/ and reddit are insisting on ruining it for me

Christ almighty

>>9515656
Just like Zizek "isn't" leftist yet most of his ideas could be considered leftist (I do know the left-right political spectrum is not accurate for the 20th and 21st century). Peterson like Zizek also bash their respectives political ideologies and specially their followers.

Peterson has a crowd who gives him money unlike Zizek so I guess he could get into a meme-tier level celebrity.
>>9515659

I don't think so, they are similar in the way they are critics of pop culture.
>Lacan and Jung are similar

My god, pure ideology. Where should I start in my Jungian path?

>>9515666
>satan is angry about memes

>>9515666
>ever visiting /pol/ or any subreddit that isn't a niche hobby of yours

baka desu senpai

>>9515659
The actual difference is that Lacan is a pseud and a charlatan, whereas Jung still has merit. Everyone from Deleuze, to Chomsky btfo of him.

>>9515135
That would take too long

>>9515675
>Where should I start in my Jungian path?

Man and His Symbols -> Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious -> The Red Book(Hard Mode).

>>9515112
>guys admits mistake
>kick him while he's down + reaffirm ideology at same time

this website is cool

>>9515679
I didn't visit /pol/, friendo. /pol/ visited me
>SJWS BLOWN THE FUCK OUT LMAOOOO
>CLEAN YOUR ROOM HAHAHA
>BUCKO BUCKO BUCKO BUCKO
>HE MENTIONED KEK!!!!!

Do these people actually watch his videos or do they just skim the Rebel Media-compiled clips, read the dramatic video titles and call it a day?

>>9515682
>le Lacan is an obscurantist who just use weird words which I can understand
Are you that student who interrupted Lacan and went full Debord on him?

>>9514838
>Stirner
See, I know this isn't JUST that "say something obviously wrong to bait spergs" thing, because wikipedia calls Stirner a father of postmodernism or some shit. What's up with that? What does Stirner have to do with a system one hundred years younger than he is?

>>9515694
That did come across as mean, didn't it? I was just trying to make a stupid postmodernism/descriptivism joke, I didn't mean to further attack him

>>9515700
it's weird cause bucko is a leftypol meme

>>9515701
No, but that actually sounds funny, link? And Lacan being an obscurantist is just one of the many facets behind why he's a hack.

>>9515708
All things in moderation

I don't care if it's nazis or lefties making the jokes, they just consistently prove that they aren't actually pushing themselves to dive into his actual positions. They just like soundbites

>>9515713
No it's a Peterson thing to, it's just weird that this relatively obscure term ended up being a meme on both sides.

>>9515703
Is Kierkegaard not an existentialist since existentialism was termed and founded by Sartre?

>>9515709
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aqGYYBwKbQ

What's with frenchies and people calling them frauds and obscurantists?

Is it because of the Sokal paper? Or Guattari?

Guattari IS an obscurantist for sure.

>>9515724
Do you have an explanation or are you just gonna compare this situation with Kierkegaard's and existentialism?

>>9515732
just compare, I'm feeling lazy right now.

>>9515706
I didn't say it wasn't funny

>>9515748
Well, I hope you know it made no difference 'cause I don't know shit about Sartre, and pretty near nil about Kierkegaard.

You failure. You can't even spoonfeed properly.

>>9515756
Fine, it has to deal with Stirner's outward rejection of all things outside of the Ego, and his conception of ownness. Stirner was among the first to reject societal norms, the state, culture and tradition as if they're not valuable to the ego, they should not be kept. To Stirner, only the particular mattered.

>>9515749
no it was funny, even if it was at my expense.

>>9515726
Truthful answer: Continental Philosophy isn't considered academic or even philosophy any more by most of the world outside of France and couple of 3rd world European countries.

Honest answer: People just don't like philosophy, they find it insulting.

>>9515706
Didn't seem mean at all to me

>>9515818
>continental isn't considered academic
why, are you in academia?
>truthful answer
well who cares about normies?

>>9515825
>why, are you in academia?
Because it doesn't use mathematics/logic or branch out into various sciences.

>well who cares about normies?
People trying to receive funding.

>>9515724
Gabriel Marcel coined the term.

>>9515837
The frenchies specially those who are criticized by Sokal tried to use mathematics and got shitted on because "lmao they aren't mathematicians".

>>9515842
https://courses.nus.edu.sg/course/elljwp/againstdsdegree.htm

>>9515837
>Because it doesn't use mathematics/logic or branch out into various sciences.
lol

>>9515837
If you mix the fields of the falsifiable with the un-, bad things happen. You fucking fool

I really despise anyone in this thread who defends post-structualism and post-modernism in that context.

You probably majored in a far leftist uni in literature or sth and got brainwash but are quirky enough to browse 4chan ;dd

I know more about poststruct than peterson or any of you, and I know you can't defend it.

If neuroscience was as developed as it is now as it was in 60-70's, poststruct would have never existed.

That's why it grew and why it is a worthless piece of shit.

>>9515877
That's cool and all, but Academia has settled on the opposite opinion and analytic philosophers now outnumber philosophy departments over their continental counterparts 10-1.

>>9515873
Holy shit what the hell. Fucking kek.

>tfw could have studied Philosophy or History and have engaged in funny memes that no one understand
>tfw fell in the STEM meme

>>9515891
Yeah, you know and only you, every other "far leftist" academic in the fucking world is merely pretending.

>>9514838

>Stirner
>Pomo

Elaborate

>>9515947
debateme.exe

>>9515340

jordun petersburg

>>9515549

Hilarious

>>9514838
Peter B. Jordanson really is great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOQ1ZCeMY4&

>>9516042

Yes. I like Peps of Peaning by jordlum penersun

jordan peterson more like jordan PENISON

>>9514838
lol read them yourself.

>>9515706
What the fuck is your problem? Watch it

>>9515644
From what I've seen, the Right agrees with Zizek about 80% of the time.

>>9514878
Imagine being such a loser as to create an image like that.

>>9514838
yes post-modernist don't even believe in logic so even more retarded than ancaps

>>9515706
It's easy to spot retards who haven't studied linguistics when they make some kind of equivalence between postmodernism and descriptivism.

>>9515559
No. He was a modernist.

>>9516449
You can not fucking tell me there isn't a correlation between the two
They're not inherently linked but come on man

What is Postmodernism? What is Poststructuralism? How are they different?

>>9514838
Who are these shadowy postmodernists who peterson is always meming about? I have never heard anyone espouse an interest in postmodern philosophers besides this one girl on a discord server this one time. He acts like the postmodernists are this big driving force in the world today, but he never points out who these people are or how 20th century postmodern philosophers are actually effecting us in the modern day. The guy seems like a real fucking pseudo intellectual, who uses philosophy and his knowledge to push his ideologies.

>>9516909
There's no shadowy group out there controlling the discourse, but students are far more likely to read Foucault than they are Aquinas or Hume. It's an intellectual trend more than a conspiracy.

>>9515891
explain yourself or fuck off you raging faggot.

>>9516958
>Colleges are places where young scholars are set loose to explore the great works of Man on their own. Their learning is not at all shaped by the curriculum, and professors are not authority figures who students look up to and draw unspoken cues as to which direction they should take.

>>9516890
wikipedia says post-structuralism just refers to a group of geographical thinkers who succeeded the structuralists, as well as a critique on structuralism itself. Post-Modernism is a broad intellectual movement spanning multiple fields.

>>9514974
Stirner is not an influence at all. No one gives a fuck about that dude

>>9516987
An "answer" that is completely insubstantial and does not tell me a fucking thing.

>>9515391
This,

>>9517084
it's wikipedia, what did you expect you faggot?

>>9514838
Oh i have seen that dude arguing with gay college kids. He is a pseudo isn't he?

>>9517336
>He is a pseudo isn't he?
He has some pretty fascinating ideas in his lectures

>>9514878
You seem enlightened. You should use a trip.

>>9517338
like? I'm honestly curious because i only see he is praised for arguing with college kids

>>9517349
>i only see he is praised for arguing with college kids
You're looking at the response from the brain-dead alt-righters and "le anti-sjw skeptics" that have found the short little youtube clips about gender fascinating.

He's a really interesting mix of Hobbes, Nietzsche, and Jung, who are all writers you should be familiarizing yourself with if you haven't already.

>>9515227
nietzsche was inegalitarian though and highly concerned with objective values (strength, life, affirmation)

moderism = things in society develop and change!
postmodernism = those things devloped and changed again!


postmodernism is just a fancy word to say your ideas are outdated

>>9514878
If anything you engage with is filtered through "how is this or that dumber than me" (I'm not saying it is for you here but stay with me, it's rampant on this board), your opinions on the topic are that much easier to dismiss from the outset. Suggests that you aren't actually interested in the topic or in ideas or art or whatever, just with your sense of superiority. You see, I'm much smarter than you perhaps

Jordan Peterson is the Bill Nye the Science Guy of philosophy.

He is a mediocre academic who has capitalised on the viral nature of the Alt-Right movement, and appeals to impressionable young men who dismiss the bulk of philosophical literature in the West as "degenerate" or "unrealistic" because they are intimidated by it.

He is Milo Yiannopoulos of literature.

>>9517399
Very true.

>>9517426
>gets image from tumblr

>>9514838
>Is Jordan Peterson right

no

>>9517426
You're more than welcome to talk about things you don't understand, but I'm not going to take your advice.

I refuse to take seriously any doctrine that denies or obfuscates race and sex, which is what most of this hoo-hah seems to derive from.

>>9517323
>You shouldn't have asked a question if you didn't want a non-answer, also Wikipedia.

>>9515086
Anything by this fucking SJW

>>9514878
Frozen doesn't have a positive message to girls. It tells them to be afraid of men and love and that magic will solve everything.

>>9514878
Gotta love this passive agressiveness. If you want to make a point. Then make it.

>>9517532
How is he wrong, or in what is he wrong?

>>9517981
Shut up pussy you got the message

>>9517390
You mean like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_obeR1OIm8

>>9515726
Is this a situationist? I think he mentions ideas from Debord

>>9515364
You tried
I'll give you points for that,
if his minor wasn't Philosophy that could have been a good burn.

>>9515189
>Maybe the age of plenty gave humans time for good, long introspection, and they didn't find much inside.

Tell that to the Buddhists.

>>9515391
Why?

>>9515620
Sincerity to this extent is rare.

How quaint of you though *chuckles and rolls eyes at you*

>>9515818
>they find it insulting.

What do you mean?

>>9518000

>You talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded

literally /lit/

>>9514838
no

>>9517426
You have dismissed him on the basis of alt-right mania. You are correct in a sense that he is alluring to those who want to see "le SJWs BTFO Lol", "feminists rekt". However these are surface level interpretations and reactionary. He does have credentials, he has a legitimate academic career and he knows at the very least how to teach.

>>9514838
nein

>>9518092
People don't liked being asked things they don't yet know.

>>9515726

Why is he wearing a blouse?

>stirner
>post-modern

Current culture is about as far from egoism as you get. We live in the spookiest millenium to exist so far.

But yes, post-modernism is pretty cancerful.

>>9514858
>wrong if wrong
>some faggot
>says

I doubt you've read them.

>>9515000
Bentham get out go try and make more constitutions for nations you never vistited.

>>9517573
>I refuse to take anyone who doesn't indulge in my spooks seriously
well at least you admit you're unabashedly retarded from the beginning.

>>9514838
Guess what, this isn't literature related and this thread should be deleted. Report Jordan Peterson threads.

>>9518362
try saging them too, anonkun

Unless we are talking about his written works, like Maps of meaning, I don't see how this is relevant to lit

>>9518368
the /lit/ relevant part of the thread would be pointing OP to a dictionary, he hasn't a hope of understanding a whole book.

>>9517426
> dismiss the bulk of philosophical literature in the West as "degenerate" or "unrealistic" because they are intimidated by it.
Postmodernism is a very small chunk of Western philosophy.

Where's the vocaroo that was posted in the other thread? Please help me out here it was 10/10

>>9514838
>hates post-modernism
>loves Nietzsche
How dumb can one person be? You can't appeal to traditional values via the mascot of creating your own values.

>>9514838
I listened to one of his lectures wherein he started ranting about shit that was straight up from Stirner, just with different but equivalent terminology borrowed from existentialists.

FUCK YOU PETERSON.

I just cleaned the shit out of my room and still can't bring myself to address a single problem in life. I've a 10 page paper due in 21 hours and here I sit watching the time tick by...

>>9514974
>Duchamp is modern art
Many art critics consider duchamp postmodern

>>9519040
>just write about random shit divorced from the context of the topic
>call it post modern
done and done

>>9515818
>ontinental Philosophy isn't considered academic or even philosophy any more by most of the world
Literally only anglos think like that

>>9515609
Yes, and? I fail to see how you are doing anything other than stating what's already been said, but with more words?

>>9515609
Jordan?

>>9515873
>Willard van Orman Quine (Harvard)
haha fucking loser

reminder Jacques D was able to shut down analytic spergs like Searle easily

>>9518185
>he knows at the very least how to teach
the fact that he is able to word things in such a way that the densest normie is able to follow his lectures attests to this.
People forget the value of clear & simple language.

>>9517453
>you're image is from tumblr therefore your wrong

>>9519225
>try to read some popular eastern texts all at least somewhat philosophical
>book of five rings, the story of the stone etc...
>it all translates as insane stilted nonsense
you can't exactly blame us

>>9515891
>If neuroscience was as developed as it is now as it was in 60-70's, poststruct would have never existed.
lol, why would you need neuroscience to develop to disprove poststructuralism? neuroscience just proves structuralism, which can be disproven with basic geometry. don't be such a fucking pseud, especially in two disciplines. there's not enough terms for full retard to demarcate your pseudishness, so picrelated (You).
>wah leftists
fuck you you commie queerbag, you're enough of a pseudwhore you'd suck ten dicks if you thought they might pay attention to you exponentially longer, and we both know that better than you know shit about anything in a book. gb2twitter

>>9519580
>>wah leftists
>fuck you you commie queerbag,
I'm thoroughly confused

>>9519601
so is >>9515891 and he'll suck your dick and wear a che guevara tshirt for you if you pretend he's book smart

>>9517861
Can't really be a Social Studies Warlord if you have a sense of humor, which toothman certainly does.

>>9519622
>it's not postmodernism if i like the bodily fluids involved
fecesfags are the worst.

>>9514838
can someone give a rundown on this fag?
is this the father that frogposter never had?

>>9519637
pomo doesn't necessitate socjus, in fact socjus dependent on the grand narrative of progress, pomo rejects grand narratives

>>9519669
yeah that's the joke of the thread. OP doesn't know what post modernism is.

what he hates is probably modernism and he probably hates it for the same reasons the reviewers hated manet's olympia.

it's highly unlikely he got burnt by fake footnotes and is this intifada mad about it. that would be hilarious too tho come to think of it

Start calling people "postmodernist" as an insult instead of faggot or asshole.

>>9514838
Yes, it is cancer. I wish that freedom was not anarchy, but it is.

No. His idea of post-modernism is literally just "cultural marxism" but he's learned a new word and transposed it into post modernism.

>>9520098

Also:

>stirner
>post-modern

Completely confirms what I thought about Brainlet Peterson thinking anything that isn't nostalgia for the 1950's being "post-modernism".

>>9520098
>The what, who me defense.

At least stand by your convictions.

>>9520121
>>The what, who me defense.
not >>9520098
but what?

>>9520121

He doesn't know what Post-modernism is. He just thinks its non-"traditional" morality despite the fact none of our "morality" is traditional if you're including traditional being longer than 100 years.

>>9520130
>>9520141
Why do you pretend to not understand the consequences of your own dogma?

>>9520141
>despite the fact none of our "morality" is traditional if you're including traditional being longer than 100 years.

>>9520161

What "dogma"? As if Peterson isn't advocating one, that 30's-50's America is the perfect ultimate "utilitarian" set of circumstances.

>>9520182

Its true. Do "traditionalists" advocate ending the fed? According to the republican party, no. Do traditionalists advocate repealing AOC before 18? No. Do traditionalists advocate a return of the witch laws? No. So what point in time was "traditional"?

>>9519293
proof?

>>9520209
>Do "traditionalists" advocate ending the fed? According to the republican party, no.

>he actually believes that Ron Paul is a typical Republican, and that the Republican party hasn't been taken over by the same deep state agents as the Dems have which serve their masters, not the people

>>9520238

Well now you're making up conspiracies. Of course the Republican Party and democratic party party has been taken over by fucking idiots. They're politicians, people who are fucking brainlets who have no education beyond the best way to manipulate people. Politicians are the absolute scum of the Earth who's only job is to work out how best to convince people they're useful while pocketing their money/resources.

>>9520161
I was asking how he was using the defense you claimed he was, and what that defense would be.
>questions are now dogma
mkay

>>9520209
Do you think people didn't think murder was wrong 100 years ago? Peterson's argument is very simple, and not at all political. That morals are real, the world isn't wholly subjective. Everything you posted is totally irrelevant.

Peterson would be better of using the term secular humanism but it does fall under the postmodern umbrella so I don't really care if he chooses to use that term.
>>9514878

>>9520287
>murder was wrong 100 years ago
was the dead guy a faggot? a german? where, exactly, 100 years ago? I'm assuming that you don't mean papua new guinea 100 years ago since they were still beating the shite out of each other for precious skulls well into the 20th C. does papua new guinea cease to exist for the sake of your argument?

>>9520287
>That morals are real, the world isn't wholly subjective

>>9520287
>That morals are real
Kek I'd like to see you try (and fail) to prove that

>>9520287

>Do you think people didn't think murder was wrong 100 years ago

No, but then no-one thinks its right now, and I don't see it catching on. Murder is wrong by definition, but what "is murder" is well up for debate and the meaning has changed constantly. Is it murder to kill women who are disabled ("witches")? It was in 1700, its not anymore. Is it murder to kill a catholic? Its wasn't in 1600's Britain, it is now. Is it murder to kill communists? It has been for the last 70 years, for some reason NatSocs think its not today.

>>9520262
>Well now you're making up conspiracies.

Why should anything labeled "conspiracy" be automatically disqualified from being true? Especially those circumstances which are substantiated by evidence. (cf. e.g. Podesta emails)

>>9520322

Because of context. Hey, I didn't make up the term, the conspiracy theorists did. Some conspiracies are correct, such as the Watergate conspiracy, some aren't like the frogs turning gay, but I didn't pick that label.

>>9516042
>He's an anarcho-masochist, creating a theme park for psychopaths, completely obsessed with malicious sorcery to cast spells on other members of social sciences in attempt to sicken or kill them in hope of magically stealing their possessions ... and especially their crops.

anarcho-masochism is really one of the greatest concepts I have ever heard in philosophy, makes total sense

>>9520331
The claim I made still stands, undisturbed.

>>9520287
>Do you think people didn't think murder was wrong 100 years ago
>he doesn't know history
We don't expect better of you, Petersonanon. You'd have been taken in by Maharaj Ji or some other showman if it was 50 years or so ago telling you very interesting things about the history of Jesus you'd never thought about before.

>>9520337

Well I can make a conspiracy theory you're being paid off by Peterson to shill. Just because people can make accusations doesn't they're true.

>>9520312
>he can't into abstract objects

>>9520367
>he can't prove it so he will resort to image reactions and evasion

>>9520367
>truthiness
no thanks playdoh boy

>>9517426
He did capitalize on it, but that's missing the point.

The fact is that an angry and degenerate mob of leftoids simply picked the absolute worst possible person to mess with. Peterson is to leftism what Liam Neeson is to kidnapping rings: a guy who has cultivated a skill set that makes him a nightmare for people like them.

And because he dug in his heels like a maniac he's now a viral meme sensation and academic celebrity. He was basically sitting on a mountain of dormant SJW-kryptonite that those fuckwits triggered, because they just couldn't leave him alone. And now they can't even shut him down by pulling his funding because the man believes in his shit enough to go on Rogan and anywhere else, so he made all of his funding back in about three weeks, thanks to Rebel Media. They created that monster themselves.

It is exquisite, beautiful, poetic justice. Did he capitalize on his fame? Absolutely. Did hordes of degenerate pseuds absolutely and 100% make that dream a reality for him? They most certainly did. Because, unfortunately for them, *that man loves suffering more than anything else.* He just likes it, and he happens to be very good at it, with a philosophical vocabulary a mile long and a whole host of bizarre alchemical references to boot.

I love the whole Peterson saga to death. Back in the day he would have just been another mild-mannered guy talking about how to live an authentic life. But it was the mob mentality that created him, and Jordan B Peterson was put on the earth to be a colossal pain in the ass for mobbed-up sophomores. He is antifragile to the core, an academic hydra that feeds on misery, social justice and air horns. It's a thing of beauty. The mobs brought this on themselves, and now they reap the whirlwind. God bless that man.

good to see people shitting on this retarded LARPer who looks like he's going to break character and cry at any second.

>>9520387
you type like you have no friends.

>>9520387
>having enemies this poor
SJWs couldn't organise a kidnapping in a baby farm. this is like loving Dallas because someone shot JR while trying to frown on it for being a soap until then.

>>9516996
this desu. The only place I see him being discussed is /lit/.

>>9516996
>no one gives a fuck about some dude that marx wrote a long rant about

>>9520405
Stirner is the parts of neechee that matter though.

>>9520405
you don't read enough. kafka loved stirnerists, nietzsche worried about being accused of plagiarising, marx went on an epic rant which secured his place in history. if /lit/ was the only place you saw people talking about aristotle it wouldn't mean aristotle isn't a major figure of western philosophy, it would mean you're not exposed to western philosophy

>>9520399
true

>>9520387
>a guy who has cultivated a skill set that makes him a nightmare for people like them.
>. He was basically sitting on a mountain of dormant SJW-kryptonite that those fuckwits triggered,
" unfortunately for them, *that man loves suffering more than anything else.* He just likes it, and he happens to be very good at it, with a philosophical vocabulary a mile long and a whole host of bizarre alchemical references to boot.

>>9520436
does philosophical malapropism really count as philosophical vocabulary? i don't think even the analytics believe that.

>>9520387
that is it, you go to r/cringe mofo

>>9520414
Stirner is just Nietzsche only through the lens of slave morality. Literal last-man philosophy.

>>9514838
I want to be Jordan peterson little baby tampon boy. I want to turn into a little crying baby and then suck on her breasts. Her magic breast milk would turn me into a little baby tampon boy. She would stick me in her hoo-hoo and i would wait with anticipation spouting little baby goo-goo ga-gas waiting for her to bleed all over me. I want to feel her traditional blood inside my little goo-goo ga-ga baby tampon body. I want to absorb her hoo-hoo juices inside my little baby tampon boy body and goo-goo ga-ga like a little rolly-polly baby boy. It would be orgasmic to know I am one with her hoo-hoo faggot blood and i would giggle and goo-goo ga-ga and yelp with little baby boy excitement as I roll around in her homo hoo-hoo and revel in her red juices, slurping them into my soft little baby tampon boy goo-goo ga-ga body. Then I want her to pull me out and squeeze and wring my little baby tampon boy body so that her PoMo hoo-hoo blood and juices spill all over her face. It would hurt and I would scream in pained goo-goo ga-gas as pain envelops my little baby tampon boy body until I reach full climax and turn back into a grown human man

>>9520451
>morality
and there you go again fucking spook

>>9520451
Explain.

>>9520451
i wish people like you didnt exist

>>9520463
>doesn't know what spooks mean
it's amazing how many people like the word without knowing what stirner meant by it

>>9520476
i was actually calling you a nigger

>>9520479
amazing since you directed it at another anon.

>>9520484

>>9520312
>(and fail)
Jung.

>>9520496
not my fault you can't 4th channel

>>9520467
>ego->reactivity->ownness->failure to transvaluate->nihilism->vain comfort over the will to power
>>9520472
too bad untermensch.

>>9520551
I don't think you've actually read stirner.

>>9520605
I have, and I read Marx's thorough destruction of his brainlet-tier philosophy.

>>9520638
>Marx getting triggered by individualism means anything
You mean the one that was even longer than the actual text it was crying about?

>>9520638
>screech autistically and fail to understand irony for three hundred pages
>"thorough destruction"
I think we all know who the brainlet is here, anon

>>9520658
>>9520669
I didn't know I triggered the SIDF with that post, anyways I'm done arguing.

>>9520687
>y-y-ou're triggered!
If this is all you can say when someone points out your absolute inability to understand Marx or Stirner, I'm glad you're done arguing.

>>9520658
>>9520669
>>9520699
does one of you have the image of engels trying to talk him out of it? i can't find it

>>9520687
>you're triggered
>I'm done arguing
LOL

>>9514838
I would what he thinks would happen if he just decided everything was kind of okay

>>9520709
>"But what is true in his principle, we, too, must accept. And what is true is that before we can be active in any cause we must make it our own, egoistic cause-and that in this sense, quite aside from any material expectations, we are communists in virtue of our egoism, that out of egoism we want to be human beings and not merely individuals."
Marx just wanted Engels all to himself desu.

>>9520699
>>9520711
>make non-sequitur statements and shitposts
>cry like a baby when I do the same
so this is the raw intellect of egoists... not surprised.

>>9520728
>I'm done arguing
LOL

>>9520723
I know Engels was his sugardaddy I just want the image of Engels trying to talk him out of spazzing on Stirner.

>>9520728
>says he will stop arguing
>is still arguing
You're the only one who's "triggered" here, lad.

>9518049
they didn't find anything, they just short-circuited their brains and started making shit up

>>9514909
If anyone happens to be interested Bruce Charlton has written some really interesting very thorough books on similar topics. His Wikipedia page has links to his books which are online.

Why are we stuck with the likes of Peterson?

Why can't we have another Jonathan Bowden?

>>9520854
Make Jonathan Bowden threads any time

postmodernism includes teh rejection of positivism and positivism includes the scientific method ad the notion that you can explain phenomena with theories tested against and supported by empirical evidence.

so it is totally correct to call postmodernism cancer


it's why the contemporary campus left is ideologically opposed and totally anti-scientific when it comes to biologicaly predisposed , differences on average between male and female behaviour.

left wing philosophers basicaly want sociology, politics and psychology to be safe spaces where they can just waffle on and assert theories they've made up without doing any systematic research, and they get butthurt when scientists get in their way.

>>9520854
what's the fuss about this guy? He doesn't make arguments, he just recites encyclopedic knowledge

Post-modernism is a fucking sham, it's just cultural marxist bullshit. I actually refused an offer to study at community college because my education from 4chan is far supreme to anything those sjws could brainwash me with.

>>9521373
Fuckin this. Fuck American post-modernism especially.

Did you know that Saul Bellow's Herzog has a Jewish character? I mean this is blatant cultural marxism.

>>9521332
>you can explain phenomena with theories tested against and supported by empirical evidence.

Theory:
>Jews erode the fabric of German society
Experiment:
>Eradicate the Jews

Yes postmodernism is the cancer.

>>9521332
>so it is totally correct to call postmodernism cancer
only if you're a postmodernist who doesn't believe that cancer is determined by the positivism you want to apply everywhere else.

>anti-scientific genders
nobody wants scientific genders. even the sjws aren't that fucking mad. have you been smoking crack? none of the places that are homogeneous enough for mapping those averages even close to any individual are good genetic samples.
the US air force worked out average dimensions for pilots never improved performance or losses decades ago, and that's within an already selected for a narrow range of height and other dimension including gender set of individuals, who are more ideal specimens than the population by default of being in the service, let alone a pilot. the fantasy world of 1950s values you've built doesn't mesh with the fact scientists in the 1950s knew more about the uselessness of your anti-empirical definition of predisposition.

you're trying to replace one fairytale with another as though masquerading a fairytale as science is better than calling it just a fairytale.

>>9521382
Yeah it fucking is? You think Hitler was wrong? Fucking KEK.

You post-modern fags are retarded. Keep swallowing the bullshit that academia forces down your throat, I'm so fucking glad I chose against uni.

>>9521332

>they can just waffle on and assert theories they've made up

If you want a good laugh check out Real Peer Review

>>9521397
Are you vegetarian?

>>9519040
because you are stupid and unwilling to make sacrifices and get off 4chan, like when peterson talked about the story of cain and abel etc etc

>>9521406
>cain and abel
>tells his brother to be his own keeper
duuuuuude, you're gon get smote

>>9521397
>>9521403
BECAUSE I HAVE A LARGE TURNIP FOR YOU HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>9521382
so what's the argument here?
respect for empirical evidence and scientific enquiry leads necessarily leads to cruelty like genocide?

Pointing out that it is possible for someone to do worthless experiments that do not tell you about what you want to know about?

the first point is patently stupid and the second point is also redundant. the fact that it's possible to do bad science does not invalidate its value when done well and there is abundant evidence of its usefulness and success.

>>9521396
>wants scientific genders.
What makes a gender scientific?

>none of the places that are homogeneous enough for mapping those averages even close to any individual are good genetic samples.
the US air force worked out average dimensions for pilots never improved performance or losses decades ago, and that's within an already selected for a narrow range of height and other dimension including gender set of individuals, who are more ideal specimens than the population by default of being in the service, let alone a pilot.
irrelevent word salad.

Are you attempting to argue that there is no well founded scientific evidence for biological causes for the average differences in male and female behaviour?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone
if you're claiming that there is no evidence of any biological cause for differences in trends or average of behaviour between men and women then you're living in a total fantasy world that is wholly debunked by science and it is a joke that you think yourself in a position to make claims about the real world.

>you're trying to replace one fairytale with another as though masquerading a fairytale as science is better than calling it just a fairytale.

No, that's obviously a false claim because scientific investigations into the world are backed up by systematic evidence , which makes it more trustworthy than someone's imagination.

>>9521332
>science=positivism
fuck off

Peterson is a garden variety conservative who has spent long enough in academia to be able to use the language of the modern left, and enough philosophical knowledge to see that the central values that support the modern extreme left are derived from postmodern philosophy. In this sense I feel like he's trying to knock the base out from under their philosophy as he beliefs it bad for the sustenance and functioning of the modern nation state, but doesn't understand it as well as he might need to to effectively argue against it.

Either way, the attempts to get him fired for choosing not to use a certain students pronouns are utter nonsense and undermine the fundamentals of what make a modern constitutional democracy work. The second the state or state actors tread on ideological stances that are not in any way an incitement of violence or violate the physical safety or sanctity of another then there is a weakening of the legislative barrier that prevents a Turkey style coup, removing all who disagree from power.

On his reasons for not calling the student by preferred pronouns I can't comment. I don't know his opinions in enough detail. He believes that the left are trying to push an idealogy by doing so, an idealogy he doesn't agree with, so he will not be complacent in that, even though in the moment it seems harmless. I admire his conviction, but I can't claim to see conspiracy, though I'm not an academic nor in a university so I wouldn't see it.

>>9521483
you fuck off if you don't understand what positivism is.

>life is like a game which has rules which we've learnt because not playing by them means failure (misery, death, etc)
>these rules are passed on as religion / stories which are condensed and refined with each revision throughout human history
>then religious belief is taken out of the equation as something everyone can believe in
>but the stories of, say, the bible are still valuable as tools to pass on the rules of the game
>in this absence left by religious belief ideas that nothing really mattered and it was all made up to begin with so lets invent our own new realities creeps in along with an alluring victim complex
>leads to a complete rejection of 'the rules' and the manuals of how to play the game in favour of victimisation orientated thinking
>JBP steps in and offers to show the value of stories and an appreciation of history towards real practical 'sorting yourself out'

You could go through this whole mental gymnastics or... you could read The Meditations instead.

ITT people who remind me why I decided not to go to grad school

>>9522266
If you haven't read Jung, and you haven't, then shut up.

>https://youtu.be/0p1UFiNiOek?t=9m45s
>9:45

>>9522266
You just laid out a pretty coherent and interesting thought process but called it mental gymnastics anyways

Sure some parts take some more explanation but it's still a pretty useful way of looking at story telling and social interaction

>>9523117
He's making some crazy Tim Heidecker/Sam Hyde facial expressions at that point in the video