/lit/ - Literature

It's not. It's just a bunch of poor shits being pissed they don't make as much money as their employers, so they need to overthrow the their employers in a revolt and create some bullshit government that is doomed to failure.

>>9458832
>thinking a political manifesto is still relevant 169 years later

It stopped being relevant after the failed revolutions of 1848.

>More people than ever before make up the bourgeois class, was marx wrong ?

Why would this make Marx wrong?

>>9458849
Are you trolling or just uninformed?

>>9458832
Marx's most important work was Capital.

The Communist Manifesto is just a meme.

He wrote comparatively little on communism, but his critiques of capitalism are influential and worth reading.

>>9458832
The Manifesto isn't important, its just the teaser trailer for Das Capital

>>9458849
>Engels
>Poorshit

>>9458849
Has American brainwashing gone too far?

>>9458832
>More people than ever before make up the bourgeois class

If you mean the material wealth of the whole population has increased overall, you're right, but Marx (contrary to popular belief) did not contest this.
"Bourgeoisie" means people owning the means of production, such as tools, factories, land, etc. Especially the small bourgeoisie (family businesses, small shops, small to medium farms) overall has seen a steady decline. The numbers of the proletariat, that is, people relying primarily on wage labour to fulfill their daily needs is bigger than ever.

>was marx wrong ?

He was wrong about capitalism's ability to sustain itself. Basically he didn't think Keynesianism possible. He believed capitalism could not overcome the problems of free competition (overproduction, crises, etc) on its own and had to be replaced by communism. What also followed from this is Marx' conception of lower stage communism as a "better capitalism", as the economic system which will unleash unhindered development of the economic forces and create the abundant wealth required for establishing higher stage communism, a system based on the principle "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". This rather shallow conception which is especially prevalent in later Marx lead to the productivism espoused for example in the USSR. Everything else doesn't matter, as long as the productive forces are developing. This train of thought was brought to its logical conclusion with Deng Xiaoping's "It doesn't matter whether a cat is white or black, as long as it catches mice."

Another thing he underestimated was the amount of jobs created by new technology. If technology had eliminated jobs without creating new ones at the rate Marx predicted, capitalism would've become unsustainable a long time ago.

materialism v idealism
economic determinism
telelogical view of history based on the above.

>was marx wrong ?

as a descriptive account pure marxism became irrelevant at about 1915

The communist manifesto is a political treatise that was an interesting theory on paper but will never, ever work in reality.

>>9459081
Nice regurgitated "opinion".

10 bucks say you have never read a word of Marx.

>>9459081
What exactly "will never, ever work in reality" and why?

>>9459081
>t. the donald

>>9459081

>>9459090
The fact that there is no incentive for anyone to work for starters

>>9459122
>its a wagecuck thinks there's incentive work episode

>>9459122

The incentive is that the state makes you, and assigns you a role, at least in the statist vision of communism, and the one that most serious modern commies default to.

>>9459122
>its a wagecuck thinks there's incentive to work episode

>>9459122
Why? Doesn't make any sense.

>defining your entire political philosophy/identity/worldview on one (1) writer.

>moving towards some utopia based only on the writings of that one writer and the series of sycophant theorists who followed him

Pathetic desu

>>9459122
Do you know anything about communism other than the name?

>>9459133
Its called being a productive member of society.

sounds good in theory, doesn't work in reality. millions died

>>9459175
leninism was a bad idea

>>9458996
This.

>>9459163
Alright Comrade, tone it down.

>>9459190
fuck off you leech

>>9459175
US is a shining beacon of capitalism in action. Over 1% of the population behind bars and the rest killing each otehr in the streets. Thank god for capitalism.

It is shit, it was only a piece of propaganda that marx and engels quickly scrapped together containing mostly contemporary politics. It is not relevant today. If you want to get anything out of marx and engels you don't need to read it at all, start with Value, price and profit and Wage labour and capital. If you see any leftists today hyping it they are most likely pseuds.
No, an increasing number of capitalists does not disprove Marx, Rosa Luxemburg adresses this in Reform or Revolution.

>>9458832
>Explain to me why this is such a revolutionary piece of literature ?
workers had shit conditions back then
>How is it still relevant today ?
its not but its open for appropriation for any issue
>More people than ever before make up the bourgeois class, was marx wrong ?
yes and no. with rising automation what marx would consider a worker has died, replaced by children of pseudo bourgeois who think of themselves as the workers

>>9459081
>will never, ever work in reality
american_education.jpg

>>9459122
They are made to work by the state. Its not called the dictatorship of the proletariat for nothing

>>9459163
What for? once everyone becomes lazy it will be socially acceptable so you will never feel shame. some will work just out of interests and other factors but at this level of automation they will not be enough

>>9459218
we need to go deeper

>>9459225
Social status, luxury and boredom.

People generally work when they feel like they're contributing. Most people can't stand just sitting around and being a useless sack of shit.

>>9458832
>How is it still relevant today?
Because criticizing things that are considered the norm makes people feel smart.

>>9459246
>Social status
social statues does not need work. you can just be a youtube fag or do whatever those poor art people do.
>boredom
That is what vydia and animu are for. also while you can work so you wont be bored that does not mean you are being a contributing member of society.
>luxury
luxury is not allowed by the state.
>contributing
contributing to what? should I break my back so some future cucks can enjoy fruits of my labor and shit on my legacy? Should I do it for the mudslime? very few things are left that are worth contributing to.

>>9459231
how the fuck is this real

>>9459218
>>9459231
what the fuck

>>9459264
>luxury is not allowed by the state.
Why? What makes you think this is necessarily true?

>very few things are left that are worth contributing to.

Everyone decent wants to contribute to their family.

I suppose the only way to contribute to society is by being a wagecuck in an office cubicle who goes home in his shitty foreign car to bang his makeup covered wife and have to take vitamin D supplements and go to the gym.

>>9459281
>he doesn't know about OJST

http://www.ohjoysextoy.com/ballbusting/

>>9459295
I've never been so happy to be a kv

>>9459293
>Why? What makes you think this is necessarily true?
because luxury is kind of subjective. you and I live in more luxury than top people in NK. chocolate and pepsi are seen as luxury goods in Norway and few other countries. To have all your needs met is luxury, even if your car is an old volga and not a lamborghini. chances are you won't earn that lamborghini under any system

>>9459293
>Everyone decent wants to contribute to their family.
not if their family is shit.
>contribute to society
craftsmanship, food production and sanitation work are only 100% ways. everything else may or may not contribute anything worthwhile
>his shitty foreign car to bang his makeup covered wife
I can play this game too. " better than going back to his boonglo after trick to sell of cheap knickknacks and banging some 50 year old woman who is looking to ignite her fire"

>>9458832
Explain to me why this is such a revolutionary piece of literature ?
A con man realized he could package the ravings of a madman for fun and profit
>How is it still relevant today ?
It was never relevant
>More people than ever before make up the bourgeois class
Yup
>was marx wrong ?
obviously

>>9459195
US population
>324 million
Number of people in American prisons
>2.3 million
That's less than 1%, smart guy
>No, I am not an American, I just like telling the truth

>>9459340
My bad. Still the second highest in the world and the highest of any developed nation by far.

>>9458832
>More people than ever before make up the bourgeois class, was marx wrong ?
I don't know what bourgeois means: the post

>>9459128
Why is the evil state bogeyman necessary to imagine a society where basic laws compel you to work? People can be free to not work in a socialist society, they just won't receive the income contingent on working. In capitalism labor must sell its work to an exploitative minority. In socialism labor collectively decides the conditions and utilitization of its necessary work.

>>9459545
>People can be free to not work in a socialist society, they just won't receive the income contingent on working.

are you trying to troll or something? how is that not the same as capitalism?

>>9459554
There isn't an entity taking a portion of your wage as profit.

>>9458832
Gives a justification to steal shit from people. There's an explicit line in the book saying that's the plan.

Any work that justifies stealing shit from others will be put forward as a masterpiece.

"communism isn't feasible"

>doesn't stop you becoming a marxist

why are americans so triggered by marx?

marxists barely exist anymore

>>9459571
wage labor is theft, cuck
modern day capitalism is just usury

>>9459568
okay so how is that different than anarcho-capitalism?

>>9459122
I can confirm this. I've been to Cuba and never have I seen so many people just sitting around all day. Havana is literally falling apart, and everybody is just sitting around on their asses waiting on the state to fix it up. Everybody gets a minimum of 12 dollars a month and some beans and rice. The top paying jobs, doctors, lawyers, government officials etc are afforded a maximum of 36 dollars a month. There is no room for ambition.

>>9459573
Althugger made Marx more palatable to me

>>9458832
>More people than ever before make up the bourgeois class
citation needed