/lit/ - Literature

if the holohoax really happened they wouldn't have made questioning it illegal, it's not illegal to question if the genocide of native americans happened or if they transatlantic slave trade happened, but for some reason doing critical research on the holocaust is illegal

Raul Hilberg is still universeally acknowledged as the standard, magisterial history of the Nazi holocaust. It's a groundbreaking, painstaking, and unsurpassable piece of scholarship.

After you read Hilberg, read Norman Finkelstein's book, The Holocaust Industry, which Hilberg vigorously praised. It's about the appropriation of the Nazi holocaust for profit and the manipulation of public opinion. Finkelstein and Hilberg were close friends.

>>9399658
your unparalleled wisdom and infallible logic has made a believer out of me. hallelujah.

>>9399694
i'm just saying jews have "critical studied" everything to death except ONE thing hmmm

>>9399658
Yeah, just completely denounce the mounds of evidence and what literally every single historian unanimously agrees happened. Go to back to /pol/.

>>9399711
>every single historian unanimously agrees happened

well since it's not legal to publish evidence otherwise then i guess it's gong to be pretty unanimous eh?

This thread went to hell quick, but I was going to recommend Hannah Arendt's Eichmann book, which pissed off everyone who read it when it came out in the 60s. Good book, raises a lot of questions, author doesn't pretend to have all the answers. Draws heavily on Raul Hilberg's work, too, so you get some of that without having to wade through 1000 pages of Nazi legal documents.

>Captcha: Select all images with a gas station

>>9399716
A few countries make it illegal, but anywhere else in the world, you're free to publish your red-pill shit if you want. But even if publishers still don't let you publish it, it's most likely because it's easily proven false, like all Holocaust denial "evidence".

>>9399729
does it explain why the nazis bothered to ship jews all over europe in order to kill them with gas rather than just shooting them on the spot?

>>9399738
Read it and you'll know.

>>9399736
don't you think it's a little fishy that the "6 million" number appears in books published before world war 2? one starts to get the feeling "6 million" is some kind of jewish meme and not an actual body count

>>9399738

Yes, you dolt.

>>9399744
well, just give me a quick rundown since you're such a holocaust expert

>>9399746
i guess the jews and their pawns, i mean allies, weren't expecting digital search engines when they were constructing their mythology

>>9399746
That's your only evidence? The number "6 million" appears in books before WW2, therefore the Jewish death toll in The Holocaust is false?

>>9399754
die

>>9399762

what's your evidence that is actually happened? pictures of ukranians starved to death by stalin? pictures of pows killed by the allies?

>>9399764
nice answer, really convinced me that i'm right

I plan on reading this + maybe Saul Friedlander's The Years of Extermination

>>9399754
The Nazis wanted rid of the Jews, no other country would take them, war started, German love of managerial efficiency led them to killing centers, no one ever stopped and asked, "Wait, why the fuck are we doing this?"

The Holocaust is a lot weirder than you were taught in school by your bleeding-heart history teacher. Go take your resentment out on her and leave us alone.

>>9399762
They were obviously just clairvoyant. The NYT was reporting the holocaust before the war was over. Despite German code being broken relatively early the Allies never intercepted anything that would hint at a mass extermination happening. No absurd coke orders for their furnaces, etc. I don't think anyone disagrees that there was interring of undesirables in WW2, but the focus on Jews is so undeniably wrongfooted it's only natural to question it.

>>9399772
more like they were going to relocate them to madagascar or even maybe palestine like the zionists wanted, but the allies bombed the rail lines so food got cut off and some of the them starved

>>9399767
The word of literary every single historian that ever lived along with the numerous accounts from actual Holocaust survivors. Do you actually consider each and every one of those accounts to be somehow fabricated?

>>9399783
Why do you wear the mask? Would it hurt if I removed it?

>>9399773
Sources for any of this?

>>9399787
>numerous accounts from actual Holocaust survivors.

oh you mean like Ellie Wiesel? *smirk*

>>9399711

the problem with this indoctrinated rejection of the amorphous series of events referred to as "the Holocaust" is not that it is a universally defensible piece of 20th century human "canon" -- "how could it not have happened? my so-and-so was there! he saw the camps", "...the german orders of Zyklon specifically without irritant, explain this", "thousands of interviews, how could they all be making it up?"-- once specific historical events are so thoroughly agreed upon by the ruling class, so overtly pillaged by commercial interests as to create a cottage industry of fetishizing fact and fiction, so regularly dragged out in the political forum from the 6th grade classroom to the protest signs of quite literally every rally in the western hemisphere, that the deaths of millions of innocents is but a cudgel to be used by the survivors and future perpetrators of violence against mankind

>>9399772
the weirdest thing about studying the Holocaust from our current perspective is realizing that nobody, not even American jews, wanted the Slavic, Hungarian, and Polish Jews

Literally no one cared about these people

>>9399803
Reading that makes me imagine you heaving and wheezing. Is your keyboard flecked with spittle, too?

>>9399803
Cool, now where's your evidence that it never happened?

>>9399814

who said I had any?

it's a crime to deny the Holocaust

>>9399819
Wowowowow

>>9399814
what happened? the allies firebombing innocent civilians in dresden? what? pay no attention to that warcrime! think about all the poor jews, the 6 million!

>>9399814
are you trying to get us thrown in prison? you'll have to do your own research comrade

>>9399825
how many died in dresden in 20 minutes?
how many died over the course of the war?

these are two numbers up for scholarly debate...
what numbers are not up for scholarly debate?
what numbers are illegal to question?

>>9399819
lol, nice way to deflect from the fact that you have no evidence or credible sources for this information.

how could holocaust be real if our eyes arent real

>>9399834
What information? This seems like projection

>>9399754
It's really just a matter of logistics, there is no feasible way that Germany would be able to transport the supposed 6 million to the camps in the first place. Near the end of the war Germany's infrastructure was blown to shit, they were having trouble supply themselves by train let alone transporting thousands of Jews everyday from across Germany. Another thing to take into account is the fact that burning a single human body in an oven the size of the ones in Auschwitz would take 3 hours, making the 15,000 daily death toll (to hit the 2-3 million supposedly gassed at Auschwitz) impossible.

>>9399644
>No "red-pill" bullshit please, though
>

>>9399838
Jet fuel can't melt steel beams you idiot what happened to wtc 7

>>9399837
My evidence is what people that have been studying the Holocaust their entire lives have saying. I think I'll trust them over what some random guy on the internet told me.

Now where's yours?

>>9399838
oh right, they burned all the bodies so there's no evidence! well, that's convenient, well, surely some research today could find all the ashes filled with dna or something right, oh, i guess not, but surely one of those famous jewskin lampshades must have surfaced in the attic of some old nazi grandpa, oh, dna tests have never found one of those either? sad!

It makes perfect sense that Germany would be able to find as many jews as possible in Hungary (est 4-500,000) and ship them to Poland to murder them while losing a war against the existential threat of the Soviet Union

God, these threads are just painful on account of holocaust deniers showing they haven't done any real research on the topic at all.

I don't give a shit about the Jews, either. I just hate morons.

>>9399705
Wow, excellent post my friend.

>>9399849
*have been saying

>>9399844
>STEAL beams

sorry typo

>>9399838
>>9399832

Who gives a fuck if it was one, two or 6 million people who were killed its still a fuck ton. I personally beleive that the vested interests keep trying to increase the number for various reasons but at the very least millions were killed.

>>9399849
What argument are you trying to force me to make?
What question are you begging?
Are you asking me to deny The Holocaust?
What specific event under the umbrella of the Holocaust are you asking me to defend or deny?

You seem really defensive about this

>>9399856
what research have you done, good sir? read elie weasels genre fic in high school? watch a steve spielberg movie?

Mods, just kill it, please. Please.

>>9399738

It was obviously a profound metaphor designed to parallel the slaughter of German youth in the Bf 109 during the final years of the war.

I mean, assuming Eva didn't let Hitler get any, the whole war was basically a giant relationship drama publicity stunt type thing wherein Hitler creates an entire societal atmosphere of warfare and machine fetishism, then kills himself, thus solidifying his place in history as the most sexually frustrated male of all time.

Most importantly, the Nazi military industrial complex also used the discovery of nuclear fission to bring attention to the Volkswagen, which is important because every vehicle designed since then has been retrogressive in the sense that they're actually making humanity stupider, because the car is now the basic unit of life on Earth. (This concept has been explored by Fahrenheit 451 et al.)

The whole thing about the Jews is really just a minor detail. What the Jews really wanted was some shared experience of suffering that wasn't getting their dicks chopped off, so that they could cross-associate it with getting their dicks chopped off. I don't know if six million of them actually died. It's not like you would have noticed the difference either way. Like, in the alternate future, where six million Japs didn't get sent to Pearl, it's not like you would have noticed more socially integrated Japs or whatever, so what's the big deal either way?

>>9399838
>>9399852

These guys both seem to be arguing the same point (but against eachother?)

This thread is confusing and no one is offering primary sources

I read Ordinary Men and it painted the picture that if the War Effort was as incentivized as the Final Solution, they would have made it to Moscow

>>9399849
people that have been studying capitalism their whole lives have tons of evidence that capitalism is the best system. if you're happy being a pleb just washing about in an ocean of ideology cool, but don't make some appeal to authority about "people who made a career out of the holocaust" the turn around and make some angsty marxist or anarchist thread ten minutes later

>>9399867
More than you, apparently.

>>9399862
> Who gives a fuck if it was one, two or 6 million people

This post is illegal in Germany fyi

Not that I am agreeing or disagreeing

>>9399873
>This thread is confusing
it's samefags and paid shills

>>9399863
Defensive? Of course I'm going to be defensive, it's an fuckin' argument, why wouldn't I be? And since you've come up with no viable evidence after all this time, I'm leaving this thread. Have fun bathing in your own ignorance.

Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman

>>9399881
feel free to tell us all about it, people on lit can't read a book without letting the whole world know, so here's your invitation to brag it up!

>>9399711
>mounds of evidence
Please show me some that isn't easily debunked.

>>9399882
>Germany does Holocaust
>Germany makes denying Holocaust illegal

It's like they're just a shit country only good for cars and BDSM.

>>9399888
So you're just here to take issue with discussing books and the ideas in them? Good to know.

>>9399838
Only 3 million were killed in the extermination camps. Camps burnt the bodies on pyres or in large crematoria, not in 'ovens'.

>>9399884
> it's an fuckin' argument,

What is?
Seriously, every response I have for you isn't questioning the Holocaust, it's questioning what you are attacking me for

And now you're gone? Goodbye

>>9399644
Imre Kertesz, Fatelessness

>>9399898
wait, what only three million? now you're telling me the ovens thing was made up fantasy? whose side are you on anyways? you're not one of those "redpill" guys are you?

>>9399915
>/pol/

>>9399915
3 million in extermination camps, 1.4 million by death squads, 700,000 in ghettoes. That's just the Jewish victims.

>>9399948
citation needed

>>9399958
Not really, no.

>>9399948
Oy vey, where did you get these numbers from? It should be much higher than that!

>>9399964
30,000 in extermination camps, 14,000 by death squads, 7,000 in ghettoes. That's just the Jewish victims.

>>9399976
>/pol/

>>9399976
wow the nazis only killed FIFTY THOUSAND people they must have been the good guys.

>>9399964
>>9399980

still waiting on those citations, friendo

>>9399985
still less than Stalin killed, and open Stalinists give talks at universities all the time without riots breaking out, so i guess it depends on if your victims are god's chosen people or just goys

>>9399985
Nah in fact the Nazis didn't kill any Jews at all; they actually gave birth to millions of them instead. It was quite an impressive contribution to Jewish culture.

>>9399987
Of course you are.
>>9399729

Can we at least agree that comparing your opponent to Hitler is an easier rhetorical strategy to win over a populist Western crowd with a High School education, regardless of your actual political affiliation?

Because, even in the chance that stormfags had any valid points, the idea of the Holocaust in the average person's mind represents enough of an Abrahamic Evil that listeners want nothing to do with it (and whatever it is being associated with)?

>>9400023
you are literally worse than hitler

>>9400023
when i hear someone comparing a political opponent as hitler i instantly think that person is an idiot and never take them seriously again

Hitler, the Germans and the Final Solution by Ian Kernshaw is very good.

>>9400024
reeeeeeee

why are all my captchas Gas Stations

>>9400039
>why are all my captchas Gas Stations

because google is using us for free labor to train the computer vision in their self-driving cars

Night, by Elie Weasel.

An literary tour-de-france of intellect and emotion, and a chilling cautionary reminder of the evil of right wing thought. Humanity manifest, proof that we are all human, and that no one has the right to discriminate against another merely because of the colour of his skin or the length of his nose. Exceedingly elegant and stupefyingly beautiful, despite its terrible sadness.

>>9400049
> An literary tour-de-france

hehe infinite jest

>>9399993
This is hilarious. Thank you for doing this because these fucking /pol/lacks that come and shit up /lit/ now really depress me.

>>9400092
Ten bucks says if somebody starts a thread about Stalinist bodycounts you will be trying to debunk it all telling us how that shit is overrated and they had to do it since they were under siege by the capitalist world blah blah blah

or i could do one on the palestinians and you'd say they deserved it because they are a race of terrorists, and then swear palestinians don't even exist anyways, they are just confused jordanians who need to go away, etc.

Its not an extensive history of the Holocaust or anything (only part of the book is actually memoir) but Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning is a very good book.

>>9400099
Except why would you start that thread on /lit/ you drooling moron? I'm here to talk about books. Please go away.

>>9400105
well obviously i'd put a book on the topic in the op u fucktard, Black Book of Communism perhaps?

>>9400099
>my argument is that I've hypothesized two arguments we haven't had and you lost in both of them. haha! how could you have been so foolish??

>>9400112
ok, so what is your opinion on the palestinian question? subhumans who need to be exterminated? race of terrorists who need to be contained? or just confused jordanians who need to be deported to somewhere else?

>>9399762
I don't see how this is so hard to swallow. Nobody thinks historians are lying when Mao killed 45 million

>>9400099

They should have known they were going to lose their land, be forced into ghettos, deprived of citizenship and opportunities, and ignored by the international community after the Balfour declaration

wait what was this thread about? bash the fash?

>>9400111
Why don't you just go make that thread then? You obviously have no books to contribute here, so why don't you go start another thread about a book you DO want to talk about?

>>9400118
I think the 4 million -> 1 million thing on the Auschwitz memorial rubbed people the wrong way

It's almost like the soviets had some kind of... post-war motive against the national socialists

>>9399762
you've got to admit that seems a bit queer that the number "6 million" is used as a generic count for all the jews in europe going back to even the 19th century, and then somehow hitler manages to fucking kill all 6 million of them somehow, and still there are millions that come out of nowhere to immigrate to the united states and israel afterwards

>>9400115
They are a victimized populace living under an oppressive apartheid regime.

The Holocaust happened.

Its almost like I can believe both of these at once because I'm not an autist so desperate for human connection I swallow extremist rhetoric on anonymouse imageboards to form my own unique identity capable of justifying my crippling loneliness outside the internet.

>>9400115
Personally I don't know enough about the conflict to take an educated stand on it. I think Eastern (not Westernized) Islamic culture is a dangerous cancer that needs to be stopped, but I do know that innocent Palestinians are being treated horribly in disputed areas

But I'm going to look like a fool if I speak any more of that.

btw communism is terrible and there should be absolutely no excuses for what happened under Stalin's rule. Anyone who attempts to downplay or cover up what happened is a scum ideologue

>>9400119
>They should have known they were going to lose their land, be forced into ghettos, deprived of citizenship and opportunities, and ignored by the international community after the Balfour declaration

well maybe after the bolshevilks exposed the yikes-picot agreement by imperialists against the arabs they didn't think stalin would turn around and support creating a jewish colony on their land a generation later (they should have carved a jewish homeland out germany if anything)

>>9400128
No. That isnt weird. Because populations arent static and grow overtime.

This is your logic:
YAH WELL IN 1800 THERE WERE SIX JOOS BUT SOMEHOW 140 YEARS LATER HITLER KILLED SIX JOOS AND THERE WERE STILL JOOS HAHA CHECKMATE

>>9400133
>people who don't agree with me are lonely!

ok shia, i thought you weren't supposed to be able to go on the internet from your cabin

>>9400128
Okay so yes there is clearly a similarity between the two numbers, but you have to ask yourself:

If YOU were going to create a multi-national widescale conspiracy to convince the world that millions who didn't die were killed, WHY would you choose that number specifically? The concept of any correlation between the two numbers makes less sense than any figure itself

>>9400136
What books would you direct us to then? Please provide us with some reading material. Since, as you know, that's what this board is for, the discussion of books. We would all be grateful if you could provide us with some new reading material!

>>9400139
if it was static why did the number stay 6 million all the way right up until it became the bodycount of the holocaust, nice coincidence bro, you clearly haven't seen the dozens of instances of "muh 6 million" in all kinds of press from capitalist rags to jewish supremacist propaganda outlets, if you want your myth to be taken seriously don't make the body count a fucking meme, again i guess people didn't anticipate digital search engines that would allow people to pull up every instance of muh 6 million published in the west in a matter of minutes when they were making their myth

>>9400149
I just said it wasn't static. Please go read my post again and reply to what I actually said.

>>9400143
because the jews would been whining about the oppression of their 6 million for decades before ww2 even started, so they just kept going with it, not figuring 60 years later any kid on 4chan can google it all up in minutes

>>9399799

The allies knew that /something/ was happening, they just didn't particularly care. The Germans tried to ransom Jewish prisoners to the Western allies in return for war materials to use against the Soviets. Not surprisingly, this offer was rejected.

Kurt Gerstein was an SS officer involved in the camps, and also a Christian fanatic of sorts. He tried to tell officials in Sweden and the Vatican about the killings, but was ignored.

Many if not most of the victims weren't burned but simply dumped in mass graves. The furnaces were a relatively new development designed to conceal evidence.

The 6 million number is probably bullshit, and has been revised a bunch of times since the 1940s. I don't think "6 million" was ever the original number. Eichmann's estimate was 5.1 million, and he would know.

The Holocaust was not even a famous atrocity until the 1960s, most people were more angry and upset about the extermination of political prisoners and resistance fighters. Buchenwald used to be the most famous camp, not Auschwitz.

I'm getting pretty pissed off that people can't tell which of my snarky posts are which

I wish this board had IDs.

And flags.

>>9400148
oh so you're only an expert on the holocast? don't know or care about western imperialism in the arab world? maybe you're lonely? is that your problem? crushing loneliness causes you to ignore the injustices against the arab and muslim world? oh ok i see how it is

>>9400153
>so they just kept going with it,
You are a fucking retard. Conspiracies so water-tight that only you and a couple thousand other people "see through them" are not made to be so by the conspirators lazily "going with it."

It just thoroughly baffles me, the hoops I watch people jump through

>>9400152
that's the point fuckhead, the population shouldn't be static yet every jewish owned paper was all "muh six million" over and over, to be fair the census in the 19th century obviously isn't going to be easy to do or accurate, but come one when you're making a founding myth for israel, don't pick a fucking meme anyone can look up in ten minutes in a university library

>>9400159
it's not a "conspiracy" it's a meme, how can you not get this in 2017 on a god damn meme board

>>9400158
Hello again. I believe that you have mistakenly responded to my post while meaning to respond to another. If you look again, you'll see that I asked you, as a fellow visitor to this imageboard devoted to the discussion of literature, for some more information about the literature you believe is relevant to the topic at hand.

As lovers of literature, we would all be overjoyed if you could provide us with new and exciting books and writers to read! I notice so far you have been so excited by the topic at hand that you had forgotten to mention the books that lead you to your conclusions. We would all be fascinated to learn more!

>>9400168
I'm sorry sir, perhaps you'd like to look at my post again and actually read it this time? I am not a holocaust denier

>>9400159

Well Jewish people do use the memory of the holocaust for political purposes, and they do tend to get angry and almost jealous if anyone tries to bring up another atrocity. I mean when was the last time there was a movie about the Armenian Genocide?

It's only natural that certain persons get irritated at this and let themselves be convinced that the "holohoax" was all made up.

>>9400177
I'm not denying that there is an unfair emphasis placed on the Holocaust, as horrendous as it was, that has overshadowed the memories of other atrocities, some even worse. But being so annoyed at that that you begin to insist that it's a conspiracy theory (oh what do you know, that's also for political reasons) is bum-fuck retarded

>>9400182
so you think the allies were completely fair with germany? not any kind of victors getting to write history at all, unlike you know, every other war ever, yeah ok.

>>9400191
Hello again my friend! You appear to have looked past my last post. We here on /lit/ are very excited to be having this discussion with you! We all love discussing our favorite books, writers, and thinkers here! We are still eagerly awaiting to her more about the literature that brought you to where you stand on this topic!

>>9400177
> I mean when was the last time there was a movie about the Armenian Genocide?

the Turks know! shut it down!

>>9400177
>>9400211

they're going to do a double feature after they finish off the kurds

>>9400200
oh good thing the topic police are here to make sure everybody talks about approved stuff, hey, i didn't see you in that thread about asian qts and fobs, maybe you can also provide your services to that thread as well? oh thank you so much kind sir

>>9400156
Just do what we all do, shitposting by butting into other people's conversations

>>9400182

I think it's rebellion, mostly. It's one of the only aspects of the "alt-right" that irritates me, and I guess it should offend me because it makes it harder to resist the political leveraging of the Holocaust. And it was a pretty bad atrocity and all that, and I have Jewish friends and everything.

>>9400228
it's because they overplayed their hand, people who weren't even born in the 20th century are sick of getting bombarded with that crap, it's about as real to them as napoleon, they don't care and the more they hear about the less they give a shit

>>9400215
Hello again my friend! I'm sorry I haven't been in around in those other threads, you see, I generally avoid those that aren't created for the discussion of literature, as I come here to talk about literature! I'm sure you understand! Please feel free to report any threads you see here that don't contribute to the discussion of literature, as I do!

Shew. Glad we can agree how irksome it is when people come here without any intent of discussing literature! Now that we've agreed on that, maybe you can get around to telling us more about the holocaust literature that interests you! All of us are very interested in learning more about the literature that you enjoy! It has obviously rendered you quite passionate, which must mean its of the highest caliber! Here on /lit/, that's our favorite kind!

>>9400234
well, since you seem to be a fellow who's "in the know" about this sort of stuff, have you heard anything about hollywood making a film version of this? after all, they seem to have made movies out of everything else, and it's quite a thrilling account and a true story, so i'm just wonder if we may get to see it on "the big screen"?

>>9400248

Too bad there's no unexpurgated version in English.

>>9400248
No, as a matter of fact I hadn't! Can you tell us more about its significance as literature of the holocaust and how it has helped you draw your conclusions about the event itself?

>>9400260
It's sad that some jews may have died accidentally after the railways were disrupted by allied bombs, but with the jews sympathetic to communism (don't forget jewish spies in america gave stalin the bomb) it was for the good of the world that they were interred away from the general population, you know, like how the united states did with their japanese population, unfortunately the germans failed and soviet union ruled over an empire of totalitarian terror for generations, but people like Rudel put up an honorable fight

>>9399705
yes, its not like historians have dedicated their lives to studying the holocaust, noone has ever really looked into it - but now that you have pointed out this hypocrisy the sheeple will finally wake up and overthrow the jewish overlords

>>9400272
Wow, this is all very interesting. It sure is nice to have the perspective of a nazi war pilot on the subject of the holocaust and the internment of Jewish citizens. How do German historians and academics use this text in their histories of the war? How does it exist in conversation with other similar texts and with the broader literature of the holocaust? Has the author himself spoke in more depth about his experiences in any other texts?

>>9400292
well you see talking about the holocast is matter governed by very serious laws which can result in imprisonment, so no one's really been able to have a honest conversation about, but maybe one day free speech will prevail

>>9400300
Oh that's very unfortunate! I HAD heard that a lot of posters on 4chan were being arrested in the night and extradited to far flung countries to stand trial for their views on the holocaust, but I just couldn't believe it! I had assumed based on your previous posts in this thread that you must have had a friend at interpol or the ICC to protect you from such things given the strength of your claims! It is highly unfortunate that you have to terminate this dialogue just as we begin to discuss literature! The board sure will miss you! So long friend!

My people got genocided too, what do we have to do to get same attention as Jews do?

>>9399871
This makes some sort of weird sense but it's also stupid, how can this be?

>>9400349
Nobody cares about gypsies

Jesus Christ. This thread makes me wish that the persecution complex espoused by the neo-Nazis was actually real. If anyone deserves to be spirited away in the night and executed by secret police then it's them.

>>9400154
>Many if not most of the victims weren't burned but simply dumped in mass graves

where are they?

>>9399644

Anne Frank's Diary. Best piece of fiction about the Holocaust ever written.

>>9400349
>what do we have to do to get same attention as Jews do?

control the media

>>9399985

I don't know, Mao killed 78 millions which is almost double than all the deaths in WWII in the name of communism, but I guess communism can be okay nonetheless! :D

>>9399802
Why do you say that as if it is somehow an argument? A man who survived the camps as a child? That's supposed to invalidate the other survivors? What is your retort here?

>>9400215

You: Make a bunch of passive-aggressive posts that are "just asking questions LOL" without citing any sources or addressing the original question of the OP.

OP: Hey, how about talking about some sources or arguments for the point you are clearly trying to make?

You: Wow, what an asshole, I'm "just asking questions!"

>>9399871
>Like, in the alternate future, where six million Japs didn't get sent to Pearl, it's not like you would have noticed more socially integrated Japs or whatever, so what's the big deal either way?
japs don't own america

>>9400463

You do realize, of course, that it is possible to dislike Nazism and Communism simultaneously? And also that it is possible to acknowledge the reality of the Holocaust and the Stalinist purges (and the Cultural Revolution purges, etc.) simultaneously?

It's a classic tactic of both Commies and Nazis to call anyone of them disagreeing with them the other (that is, Nazis call their detractors Commies and vice versa) but this is obviously not true nor does it have any valuable implication for the factual debate over whether the Holocaust happened.

The poster you're replying to didn't say anything about the Commies at all and yet you jumped to the logical conclusion that he is a hypocrite since (in your own head) he excuses an entirely different set of mass murders. Even if all that were true, though, the argument that "a few million ain't so bad compared to a few tens of millions" is supremely weak sauce. Killing millions of the citizens of millions of Europe is bad because it's mass murder to support a political and social goal, regardless of the comparison to how many other murders happened otherwise. If someone were on trial for murder and they argued they should be let free because their mortal enemy killed 3 dudes they would get lauged out of court.

>>9400450
good goy

>>9400648
>You do realize, of course, that it is possible to dislike Nazism and Communism simultaneously
but only one is a literal thought crime.

>>9399871

Marijuana is a heck of a dug, anon.

>>9400654
>150 Replies
>2 Book images

Anyways, pic related, Richard Evans Third Reich at War, and Eichmann in Jerusalem are great. Diary of a Man in Despair if fiction.

>>9400652

I'm going to regret this reply but here goes:

If you're referring to Holocaust denial laws, being a Nazi isn't a crime, denying the Holocaust is a crime and even that is in a limited cultural context.

If you mean instead that there is a cultural debit that comes with being a Nazi (unlike a Communist) then that is partially true. Communism is somewhat more accepted than Nazism in polite company but this is partially for good reasons. There are plenty of Commies (definitely not all, mind you) that don't approve of Stalin and/or the purges, whereas it's hard to come by a Nazi who hasn't gone "full Nazi". That is they approve of Hitler, the Holocaust (and/or deny it), etc. It's harder to dabble in Nazism than it is to dabble in Communism. Additionally there have been many Communist governments in history, not all of which have been as bad as the USSR and the days of the Cultural Revolution. If you say you're a Commie there's a reasonable chance you like one of these other models whereas if you say you're a Nazi there's really only one government you can point to as an ideal. I definitely think that Communism is given too much of a pass in some circles but that doesn't imply that Nazis should get some sort of slack in return.

Just for the record, I think the decision to make Holocaust denial criminal was dumb on the part of Europe's leadership. It didn't do much to stop the denialism (this thread being a reasonable example) and just provided a cudgel for people to say "See how insecure they are? It must have been a hoax!"

look, completely non-biased view of the holocaust as I see it being Australian and not up to date on the latest propaganda.

>6 million jews died in extermination camps run by nazis, accounted for by witnesses, pictures, and post-war accounts.

ok, lets look at this, evidence works by proving something happened or evidence can debunk a proposition. you can't have "evidence that something didn't happen" because it didn't happen, there's no evidence.

these are my literal questions about the holocaust which I haven't been able to find proper answers for.

>nazis were losing a war, why expend that extra resources
weak question, if they were so "ideologically inclined" towards killing the jews then sure. I find it a bit hard to believe that hitler convinced EVERYONE in germany to mass kill innocents in the name of ideology, but then again to see SJWs nowadays..

>eye-witness accounts have turned around and said that they've falsified the accounts to get handouts.
interesting, but why would people say "I lied about the whole thing" - what benefit is there to admit to lying about the holocaust? compared to actually getting re-imbursed

>photos have been proven to be altered by overlaying some dead bodies over original images
again, interesting. you can't "un-make" a photo, or overlay something that fits in with the original picture, especially in the 1940s. so why do these pictures exsist to begin with?

The number "6 million" is a real fucking moot point and only frogposters or idiots bring it up.

so the issue is between:
>the holocaust happened, and some people have tried to denounce it by gas-lighting and othersuch - but why?
>the holocaust didn't happen and a great number of people falsified the whole thing - but why?

either of these questions: why?

now, In my limited view, this has been the only part of history that is "solved, case closed" - as in - historians have agreed that it did indeed happen and have "shut the case" so to speak. - this is another "why" as when people start admitting to false evidence, doesn't that naturally re-open the case?

it's like if the archaeologists who found pharoh's tombs just admitted that it was a ruse, wouldn't that re-open the case to find out what actually was found if anything?

to me, the holocaust has more questions than answers, which is why it's curious that it's illegal to question in the country that it happened in
>thereby stopping all questions actually getting an answer.

we may never know until we go to >>>/pol/

>>9400682
>whereas it's hard to come by a Nazi who hasn't gone "full Nazi"
but that's the problem though

anything that is about nationalism, or workers-rights, get's labelled under nazism, THEN becomes really bad

>I think we should focus on giving our own people work, before immigrants
>well hey that's a pretty nazi thing to say, I guess you want to have another holocaust don't you?
>well no, nazism wasn't about the holocaust, there was a lot of other good points
>did you just deny the holocaust?

for more information read my diary desu

>>9400695

I fully agree with you that the so-called "reductio ad Hitlerum" is a problem in modern discourse. It's a lot easier to call someone a Nazi than to engage with them on an intellectual level.

That being said, my comment before was talking about either self-proclaimed Nazis or Commies, who shouldn't be concerned with their views being "reduced" to "full Nazism", etc. At this point we have gotten pretty far afield of OP's original question.

>>9400682
>Additionally there have been many Communist governments in history, not all of which have been as bad as the USSR and the days of the Cultural Revolution.

Such as...?

The holohoax claims raised my curiosity because it sounded plausible, until I researched the actual facts. Read for yourself, the actual facts are freely available on the internet,there is plenty of actual evidence. Many of the holohoax claims are clearly based on lies and very apparent, it’s a typical conspiracy scenario that doesn’t hold up because of the actual size of the deception required. I approached this with a completely open mind and not assuming one side or the other was correct. Hitler stated his intention for the annihilation of the Jews on 12th December 1941, it’s a matter of record and one day after he declared war on America. Rudolf Hoss wrote his memoirs about all of the atrocities he carried out at Auschwitz, during his running of the camp. He gave a detailed testimony at Nuremburg that bore out everything revealed in his memoirs. The detail, here, is beyond dispute because no one could realistically attain these levels, the holohoax claims come nowhere near, with far less and vague claims based on Chinese whispers. Why would someone, about to be executed, make such an effort, where is the purpose? I have no doubt, after reading so much on the subject, as to the complete authenticity of the Holocaust. There is simply too much to be explained away as a hoax. As for the illegality in claiming “hoax” in public, I understand why, it’s clearly anti-semitism and actually panders to Nazi ideals. That is the reason that 50 million people died, to bring Naziism down and no credence should ever be given to its support.

>>9400735
forgot picture

>>9399658
This

>>9400746
doy, read
>>9400735

>>9400747
I am not suggesting they didnt round up jews for various reasons. But you can't tel me they killed 6 million fucking people, with the equipment they had.

> t-the number doesnt matter

Yes it fucking does!

If you deposit 100 dollars you can't just add a couple of 0's and transform it into 10,000

>>9400099
being an imbecile, the post

>>9399670
This.

If "redpilled" frogposters knew anything about being critical of American Zionism, they'd bring into question Hilberg's work, which initially put the tally to 5.1 million (and could be much more, or much less, either way).

The reason why the gas chambers were only used to kill a couple million (they weren't large enough, or implemented in time to destroy 6) is not that they're lying about the figures, they've literally counted in all the partisans, shootings, missing peoples, etc. during WWII under Nazi rule.

>>9399658
This, idiots replying to you have no argument as to why it's acceptable for such a thing to be illegal.

>>9401012
volksverhetzung

>>9400817
A majority of them were shot or died from other reasons. Not even half died in the camps, idiot.

Hitler couldn't win. National-Socialism was fundamentally negative, and thus it could not produce meaning, only deny meaning to other things ; hence the mediocrity of 1936-1945 Germany's cultural production. National-Socialism was anorganic, ahistorical, nothing more than chance. It had no deeper meaning than its brief existence ; and its work was negative : a negation of life and historical struggle. Their goal was to stop history, to make a "thousand-year Reich", --- to stay forever stuck in the ahistorical time of the fantasy, of the myth. Hitler was a Ludwig II with power. Look at his counselors, his cabinet ; degenerates, weaklings, ex-communists (Goebbels) ; look at the SA : literally, the rabble wearing the same shirt ; the whole of National-Socialism meant nothing, stood for nothing. They were the exact opposite of everything Nietzsche describe as a superior form of human existence ; plebeians in culture, plebeians in politics and plebeians in design. You should read Spengler. The Nazis couldn't stand the fact that Germany's attempts to make itself culturally relevant through military actions had failed, from 1870 to 1918 ; and they thought that its problems, which had to do with the exhaustion, not only of Germany, but of the West in general, had to be someone else's fault, and could be fixed by getting rid of that someone and uniting the Germans under a single rule. Of course, it failed. Burckhardt had already shown how the State could not produce anything, culturally ; and Nietzsche quickly understood this ; and so did Spengler, while considering the State as the ultimate cultural production which ended cultural production. The Nazis were typical leftists, in thinking they could solve deeper, fundamental human problems, through the State.

>>9401065
t. horseshoe

>>9401066
Are you paid by the shitpost? I know some /pol/ progagandists are.

>>9401068
Are you, faggot? I'm sick of seeing /pol/ tier explanation for things. There's far more shit involved than hurrdurr it's the State! I'm an anarcho-syndicalist, and am sick of seeing dumb AnCaps, or liberals, trying to pull horseshoes out in debates - since it makes me look bad as an anti-statist.

>>9400282
Why do the numbers go down every time?

>>9401070
Who cares what you identify with? Sorry if it makes you look bad. Make better posts.

>>9401085
You mean, why do the estimated numbers of people who died for one specific reason during a time of extreme difficulty in gathering information and which various sources confuse when talking about the total number of people killed and total number of one particular ethnic group vary depending on the source?

No idea.

>>9401085
[citation needed]

It also depends on the historian. Some leave out partisan fighters, certain events, etc.

>>9401087

>>9401065
Indeed. They should have killed the bankers and done the economy like they did. No Lebensraum, no occult, no ideology. I guess USSR, UK and France would have necessitated a fairly high defense budget, however.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1yON7-6VK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pDtgWUtdUM
Stalin was a genius. Use Christian blood to drunken the jews, have the system eat them up.

>>9399658
This. Filthy jews and their lies.

>>9401059
Where the fuck are all the bodies then? Thats like 4 football stadiums of just jews.

>>9400312
You display the patience of a saint. I for one appreciate your steadfastness.

>>9400453
Is there an answer you would not just dismiss as "Jewish mind control" or something?

>>9401224
Why don't you post the locations of the mass graves and find out?

>yfw that holocaust thread from last night is still going
>laughingfrog.jpg

>>9401238
So basically, there is no answer that you will admit is acceptable to you. Good to know.

>>9401246
so you admit you have no answer for that one, good to know.

>>9399658
this, holocaust was a falseflag to create the Jewish ethnostate israel
also Jews were the predominant slavers during colonialism

>>9401249
Not going to get into an discussion with someone who admit they're just baiting, is all.

If you actually wanted to find common ground on this, conversation might yield something. But you're pretty invested in projecting the idea that you aren't, so you deserve what you get.

Congratulations, you have successfully taken measures to ensure that you are protected from information that might cause you to learn something uncomfortable to your worldview.

>>9401298
>Congratulations, you have successfully taken measures to ensure that you are protected from information that might cause you to learn something uncomfortable to your worldview.

nice projection buddy, but feel free to give me "uncomfortable information" like the location of all those mass graves of jews needed to make the holocaust numbers add up

>>9401311
If you're welcoming of the information, that's great. What sort of answer would convince you?

I'm asking because this will avoid wasting both our time discussing something that will not bring a resolution. If there is no evidence that is satisfactory, then you're just denying for the sake of denial - as an article of faith rather than a belief that is subject to evidence.

>>9401325
you really don't have an answer do you? lmao

>>9401337
I do. I'm waiting for a suitable indication from you that you are not just wasting our time.

Just tell me what sort of answer would satisfy you. Why is this such a difficult question for you?

Primo Levy's "If This Is a Man."

Sorry your thread turned into a real huge horror of a shitshow, OP.

>>9399644
didn't hitler round up all the homos along with the jews? now that fags are so dominant in political discourse why isn't there more material about this? why hasn't done an lgbt focused holocaust book? or have they and no one bought it cuz no one cause about faggots

>>9400453
>>9401238
>>9401249
>>9401311
>>9401337
Your trick is an old one, you see. There's no point in discussing the mass graves at, say, Treblinka, because you will deny as a matter of course.

You won't discuss your standards of evidence, because doing so would open you up to an examination of your methods and motives.

no "red-pill" bullshit please

>>9401370
>say, Treblinka

oh you mean the mass graves of polish soldiers executed by stalin? i thought you were trying convince me that hitler gassed six million jews, not that stalin committed warcrimes

>>9401386
woah, a pond full of acid? how horrible! surely this must have left a lot of evidence in the soil! maybe you can point it out on google maps?

>>9401392
What? You're telling me the chimney at Auschwitz isn't attached to the main building and wasn't even built prior to the end of WW2? What does that have to do with anything goyim? Stop being anti semitic with your racist "red pill" garbage. Here, read this book written by Hymenbottom Finkelsteinowitzengrueber, he's a poor holocaust survivor (6,000,000 jews died there, never forget) And he writes about all the HORRORS that the EVIL NAZIS did to the poor jews. What? You want evidence outside of witness statements? That's quite anti semitic don't you think?

>>9401343
Let me weigh in a second.

This whole thing seems kinda off... Your debate style is this.

> Tell me how I can change your mind
FYI. 6 million corpses would be a starting point in this negotiation
> Tell me your are open to having your mind changed
> Shazam! Alakazam!
> Now you believe me, right?

Works when someone can provide irrefutable proof, but it holds no water in a legitimate debate.

Finally, who the fuck are you referencing with "our time". You speak for yourself here anon.

>>9401430
>You speak for yourself here anon.
he means himself and the other jidf shill in the thread that he praises for being a good goy here
>>9401208

>>9401430
I haven't even begun to debate, I'm just exploring the position people claim to hold. An unwillingness to discuss what the demanding party considers an acceptable standard of evidence is a problem, and it's a problem that's unrelated to irrefutable proofs.

"Our time" refers to the time of anyone in the discussion, which is wasted if people are asking for evidence where no evidence would even theoretically be enough; in that scenario there is no satisfactory terminus to the line of inquiry, ie. it's a waste of time.

>>9401430
You're looking for information X. What would qualify as X to you?

That's all that's being asked here, as far as I can tell. Nothing unreasonable about that if you're not hiding from anything. Are you?

Fuck you OP, you knew this would've happened

>>9401449
who knew proving the holocaust actually happened is such a painstaking affair! one would think the extermination of 6 million jews would be pretty easy to prove! guess not.

>>9401459
If it's so easy to prove it to you, merely describing the sort of evidence you are looking for should be even easier.

Will you do it?

>>9401470
i'm open to any kind of evidence, surprise me!

>>9401470
well, what evidence convinced YOU that the holocaust actually happened? why don't you start with that

>>9401472
If you have no standards, nothing can be achieved.

>>9401475
wow man with every post like this you're really convincing me more and more that is didn't happen

>>9401474
I'm not particularly convinced that the Holocaust did or didn't happen. I was hoping to go through the concept with you, and maybe one of us will learn something.

What sort of evidence do you think is warranted when making the large claim that the Holocaust happened? What does, or does not constitute the Holocaust? Is it even rational to believe such a thing at all? Is it possible for even people who experienced life in that era to confirm or deny something that large with a first-person account?

These are the kinds of question I want to explore with you, but you have to give me something to work with as you are the one demanding evidence. Merely turning the question back on me is a lowly device that ignores that fact that the asker should have some idea of what they are looking for, even if that is later collaboratively modified or even overturned in the course of discussion.

>>9401486
That wasn't me, but I agree with it. I don't owe you proof that something happened, but if you want to assert that there is a major mistake in the common understanding, you should point out what sort of substance is lacking so that we can investigate the claim.

If I had a vested interest in proving OR disproving the historicity of the Holocaust, I'd need to set some standards for the discussion. Just saying "lel convince me - you can't because it's impossible" is really lazy thinking. Plenty of idiots are convinced of things all the time because they don't have standards.

Now, you're more interested in wasting time with this instead of describing what evidence you're looking for so we can move to that portion of the discussion. For someone so eager to see some evidence, why are you reluctant to do this? Is something stopping you from describing an acceptable level of evidence, or do you not really want this evidence as badly as you claim to?

>>9401507
oh cool you made another post without any evidence

>>9401514
If you really wanted to see evidence, you could get it with a simple description of the kind of evidence you are looking for.

All that stands between you and what you claim to want is a simple action. Why won't you do what it takes to get what you claim you want? What are you afraid off?

Again, if you want evidence what is stopping you?

>>9401537
See >>9401370.

>You won't discuss your standards of evidence, because doing so would open you up to an examination of your methods and motives.

>>9401543
well since you're such an evidence expert, why don't you post what ever satisfies your standards of evidence and we'll go from there

>>9401543
Not to mention it would provide an avenue to resolution.

Holocaust deniers aren't interested in disproving the Holocaust, only denying it.

Denying is where their strength lies, not in evidence.

The longer the can stay in the realm of denial, and not of evidence, the longer their perceived significance can last.

>>9401548
I'm not the one who has to be satisfied, remember? You ask the one who proclaims he hungers what the food should be, not anyone else.

YOU want X, YOU want to be convinced -
describe X, or resign yourself to willful ignorance.

>>9401549
denial of what? you're claiming 6 million people got wiped off the face of europe, why would anyone believe such a claim?

>>9401554
well, your total lack of even the shabbiest evidence has convinced me, it didn't happen, damn it, looks like you /pol/ guys have redpilled another one!

so you don't have any standards of evidence yourself? interesting, this whole holocaust thing is looking more shaky with every post you make...

>>9401555
I'm not claiming that 6 million people were wiped off the face of Europe (not that there is anything particularly unbelievable about that claim).

You raise issues of evidence, and I'm asking what sort of evidence you're looking for. That's it. Not having any and being unwilling to even tentatively discuss any is a bad sign.

>>9401562
Empty rhetoric and strawmen aren't going to get you anywhere lol.

>>9401567
oh you mean like all the post with no evidence you have made in this thread? since you're a true believer that the holocaust actually happened, then your standard of evidence must be pretty high, tell us what it is

>OP asks for books about holocaust
>turns into a 'holohoax' discussion
/lit/ is finally dead. This never would have happened a year ago. I am leaving 4chan forever, it's overflowed by nazi retards. I have browsed this beautiful website for 11 years, but it's time to go. I have seen 4chan being slowly nazified in the last 11 years. At first it was just /b/ and /pol/ (/new/), then came /r9k/ and /int/, later /tv/ and /v/ and now there is no getting away from it. Bye guys.

>>9401574
oh come u god damn faggot u posted that bait on purpose knowing it would turn into a /pol/ shitfest best really turned into a socrating pissing match about how do we really know anything, lol it's just as /lit/ as it ever was

>>9401255
>also Jews were the predominant slavers during colonialism
Interesting. Any recommended reading material on this subject?

>>9401570
You keep calling me a Holocaust believer, but I've already said I'm not.

Having failed to produce an answer to my demand for your standards of evidence, you turn to asking me to provide you some standards instead. This is not surprising, but it is disappointing.

Piling "evidence" into a discussion with no standards just muddies the waters and encourages empty talk.

Standards of evidence are only useful if they belong to the party demanding evidence. What would be the point of a standard, only for the person to simply deny it? To be convinced, you need a standard of evidence that will suffice.

Like the Young Earth Creationist who says "nothing on Earth will convince me", someone for whom there is no possible proof cannot be reasoned with.

>Ulrich von Hassell, aristocratic conservative diplomat within the Nazi party, heard about the gas chambers and wrote it in his private diary in May 1943

>look up Hassell in the /pol/ archive
>only 1 result, which goes unnoticed

Holocaust denial really is a fucking joke.

Blessed is the Flame : Concentration Camp Resistance & Anarcho-nihilism. Its a book going in detail about how people resisted in the camps and how it was suppressed and at how some camps they had prison riots and dedicated underground prison networks with its own politics. Ohyeah and how the experiences of being there relates to a new type of post left anarchism. Would recommend this to anyone interested in how people were kept docline within the camps and how some did resist.

Sobibór Death Camp riot is considert the most succesfull camp riot.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobibór_extermination_camp

>>9401199
Where are all the mass graves of the dozen millions Russians who died? Probably in Europe somewhere. There are mass graves from WWII all over the continent.

>>9401582
>Socratic pissing match
If by that you mean that the Holocaust deniers don't want to describe their position because it opens them up to being BTFO, sure.

>>9401590
>Like the Young Earth Creationist who says "nothing on Earth will convince me", someone for whom there is no possible proof cannot be reasoned with.

>>9401591
Doesn't prove anything, anyone can write a book and fill it with whatever will sell.

>>9401615
>if it contradicts, it's a hoax
>a bloo bloo blooo

>>9401594

well that's at least something, but since the holocaust industry has been going on for literally generations why doesn't someone do a vietnam memorial style list of every single jew killed by the nazis? if people can dig up records of slave sales from 250 years ago, surely people can look at the pre-ww2 german census and go through the list of jews and find out where they went...the fucking thing would be massive if you can even get half the 6 million listed on it...of course ppl will still be like "how do we know these people really died" or whatever, but it would be a hell of a lot better than puling that 6 million number that /pol/ loves to point out is a meme out of thin air

>>9401626
See? This is why standards of evidence are important. Without them, all evidence is just a mic drop that the person must dive into and submit to the alchemy of personally being convinced or not, divorced of any collaborative rational discussion or analysis.

You need a decent level of discussion so that the intellectually healthy can save the intellectually weak and sick from ignorance. Just leaving things there to be believed or not is indistinguishable from propaganda to the kinds of people that need convincing, and is more readily dismissed out of hand.

>>9401654
>compile a list of 6 million names or I won't believe you
>haha no one will believe it anyway because how do I know right
>but do it anyway
This is what you sound like.

>>9401657
>Teach the controversy

>>9401670
how do we know the vietnam war happened? how do we know the names on the vietnam war memorial aren't just made up? maybe it's all leftist propoganda to push an anti-war agenda, maybe no one died in vietnam, it was just a police action

>>9401670
considering how all the people who are obsessed with the holocaust you don't think the people who had relatives killed in the holocast wouldn't be happy to help get their dead relatives name remembered? they could even do it like an oral history project where weepy old yentas can reminisce, why hasn't some jewish billionaire funded this shit?

>>9401675
You want to elaborate on that?

>>9399644
Eichmann in Jerusalem by Hannah Arendt

Goebbels by Ralf Georg Reuth

The Collapse of the Weimar Republic: Political Economy and Crisis by David Abraham

Die Auflösung der Weimarer Republik by Karl Dietrich Bracher

>>9401690
it's what they do in conservative christian school districts in america that are anti-evolution...it's like "evolution is obviously fake shit that didn't happen, but if it did happen, this is how it would work" sort of like OJ saying "if i did it, it would have happened this way..."

>>9401700
I understand that. I guess I'm asking how, specifically, you mean that to be a response to >>9401657.

>>9401697
Survival in Auschwitz by Primo Levi
Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl

>>9401697
>Hannah Arendt

just goes to show ambitious grad students aren't above fucking their professors to get ahead even if they're literally nazis lol

>>9401676
Pretty much.
>>9401684
They are remembered, by the people that cared to. None of this necessitates a master list, much like how the common desire to take care of your loved ones does not mean everyone supports universal health care. There are logistics involved, and larger narratives that people want to be convinced of in order to back the idea.

There have been countless weepy yenta parties on this, and documentaries made on that basis. But compiling a master record is a lot more work than that. Can you even imagine the cost? For what potential gain?

The Jews are satisfied, the mainstream is satisfied. The only people making a noise are deniers and people who literally have no reason to believe it and probably some personal reasons to reject it. A master list isn't going to make that go away, and is otherwise a gigantic waste of money.

>>9401728
>The Jews are satisfied, the mainstream is satisfied.

then why the hell did you blow like 12 hours arguing autistic trolls about it

>>9401735
I didn't. I did get involved because I was interested to see what their position actually was. Just dismissing idiots is easy, and lazy. Once in a while you actually have to call them out and see what, if any, substance they can offer.

>>9401735
>12 hours
This made me wonder how much time I'd actually spent on this, and looking back to my first post I've been doing this for less than 2 hours.

>>9401702
I'm curious too. >>9401675 could be meant to agree with or repudiate the post it was responding to.

>>9401777
oh do you dudes change shifts, cuz there was another uppercase poster saying the exact same shit as you last night, i know jews have a lot of money, but like wouldn't your dudes resources be better spent combating islamic extremist recruiting online rather than arguing with autistic kids on 4chan

>>9401585
http://www.rense.com/general69/invo.htm
excerpt from a book by a Jewish historian

>>9401789
Posting with uppercase isn't really that rare, nor is disdain for deep deniers; as for how I spend my time, I was on /lit/ anyway so I might as well speak where I find interest.

>combating islamic extremist recruiting online
This sounds like a pretty useful activity. Any suggestions on how to achieve success at this?

>>9401349
>"If This Is a Man."
/thread

>>9399658
haha bet you wish you didnt make fun of burgerland so much now, eurotard. you know, i might just take a stroll to the park later and hand out some pamphlets to redpill the kids on the holocaust. and i can still let my mom know i'll be home for dinner

>>9402023
lol when somebody finally makes one of those nostalgia movies like "stand by me" for the millennial generation, they've got to put a kid like that it in it, just to fully capture the spirit of the times

>>9400610
no, elie wiesel was not a legitimate holocaust survivor

>>9402091
>someone lied about having sex once
>that means no one has ever had sex

>>9402091
even jews agree on the that, and the ppl that are most pissed off about it are the dudes who were actually there and he wasn't

>>9402082
if seinfeld was still on you know they'd do an episode where kramer gets redpilled

>>9401098
I'm a big lefty, actually.

>>9401710
>Survival in Auschwitz by Primo Levi
Once you've read this masterpiece (If This Is a Man) you don't need anything else because you've understood the Holocaust

>>9401224
>>9401246
>>9401298
>>9401325
>>9401343
>>9401370
>>9401449
>>9401453
>>9401470
>>9401475
>>9401507
>>9401537
>>9401548
>>9401549
>The holohoax claims raised my curiosity because it sounded plausible, until I researched the actual facts. Read for yourself, the actual facts are freely available on the internet,there is plenty of actual evidence. Many of the holohoax claims are clearly based on lies and very apparent, it’s a typical conspiracy scenario that doesn’t hold up because of the actual size of the deception required. I approached this with a completely open mind and not assuming one side or the other was correct.


This is your style of arguing right now.

>>9399738
>does it explain why the nazis bothered to ship jews all over europe in order to kill them with gas rather than just shooting them on the spot?
"The first mass executions were accomplished by gunfire, a process that was slow, messy and psychologically stressful for the killers... the search for more efficient killing techniques led to the development of specially prepared vans, Gaswagen, into which exhaust fumes ere piped. an idea derived from the trailers in which the mentally ill had been gassed in Poland in 1904."

>>9402562
Not really, no.

>>9402562
Way to miss the point, and the actual position of the people you seem to be criticizing..

>>9402569
>>9402589
yes absolutely,
here are actual quotations

>Is there an answer you would not just dismiss?
>So basically, there is no answer that you will admit
> you are protected from information that might cause you to learn something uncomfortable to your worldview.
> What sort of answer would convince you?
>Why is this such a difficult question for you?
> merely describing the sort of evidence you are looking for
>I'm not particularly convinced that the Holocaust did or didn't happen.
>Again, if you want evidence what is stopping you?


I'll take up his side of the argument for a quick minute before my day starts if you have time.
>standards of evidence
the problem with standards of evidence is that there's little evidence that holds up to any standard. I could take a photo of my backyard firepit and say it's for burning dogs. there'd be no "standard of evidence" that would debunk that.

>gas chambers
what I would ask for is the location/pictures of a gas chamber that was fit for purpose of gassing multiple people.

>legitimacy of accounts
most "eyewitness accounts" mention things like knives in the floor, or rollercoasters into the ovens. I would like photo evidence of what's mentioned from a couple of accounts to prove that those accounts have substance.

>psychological reasoning
I would say any reasoning should be apparent if you were to post nazi propaganda that pointed towards running extermination camps at the expense of the war effort or country.


there's 3, and if you want to continue this discussion feel free to get back to me with it or make another thread.


now pictures can be falsified, so how would we prove that the pictures are indeed real or taken on location? we can't. which brings back the question of why can't we go there again and take new pictures? because it's illegal.

>>9402568
You ever notice how people tend to prefer their abattoirs outside of the city limits?

>>9402660
>there'd be no "standard of evidence" that would debunk that
Sure there is. I'd ask questions like "what makes this different then a normal firepit? did anyone see these dogs being burned? did a lot of dogs go missing around this time?" and so on.

As for pictures of suitable gas chambers, there are plenty of those (not that this constitutes an absolute proof, especially if you discount the attestations from people that existed at that time). If you find them unsuitable, explain your reasoning and we can discuss that.

I haven't seen any credible accounts of knives in the floor or rollercoasters into ovens; much less can I believe that "most" accounts contain these elements. If you have a link to any primary sources on this, I would love to verify that for myself.

Extermination of the undesirables was the Great Work of Nazi Germany. Far from being at the expense of the country, it was in service to the country according to the prevailing narrative. In addition, the logistics and political viability of "shooting them then and there" seems much less practical compared to the method actually used.

As I mentioned before, you kind of paint yourself into a corner if you refuse to believe the word of the people who were there (Jews and Nazis alike). Even allowing people to take pictures would not solve the falsifiability problem you described. You could go and see for yourself, but this is not practical for everyone.

How often do you need a killer's instrument to be displayed, and the corpse, after the trial is over and the sentence passed? Do the killer's inheritors get to say in seventy years "where is the body? where are the living witnesses? how do you know that instrument is even mine?" and demand that the record be expunged, their ancestor declared innocent?

>>9402753
>"what makes this different then a normal firepit? did anyone see these dogs being burned? did a lot of dogs go missing around this time?"
nothing, yes I have multiple eye witnesses. no they didn't because dogs can breed.

this is the level of argument for the holocaust. even "did a lot of X go missing?" was bought up earlier in the thread and that was shown to be false.

>there are plenty of pictures of gas chambers
no there's not. there's only a few and most of them have wooden doors. the key was "suitable for use as a gas chamber" - I am happy to change my mind if I can see a gas chamber picture that was sourced from the location.
>if you find them unsuitable, explain your reasoning
as above.


>. If you have a link to any primary sources on this,
what is a primary source of a tertiary source?
the knives and rollercoasters are some of the more notably bizzare cases. consider just a random one taken from the holocaust website:
http://remember.org/witness/elsiev
>She also learned that the open areas in the wall were used by the Nazis to put their guns through to shoot at the people in the room.
this is what she learned, but where is the proof that it actually happened? what room was she talking about? photos of the room?

>Extermination of the undesirables was the Great Work of Nazi Germany.
they did not want to exterminate, they wanted to "get rid of" and get the undesirables out of the country.
There is actually a video of Goering explaining this at nuremberg, when a quote was attributed as a mis-translation "do you want to exterminate undesirables" - "No, this is a misquote, the original said we want to liberate the german people from undesirables"
or something of that sort.
naturally, it's a bit difficult to find amongst thousands of videos "about the holocaust and why it actually happened" ( which is bizzare that it has to be repeated so often if it's such an easy case.)

but I digress.

>if you refuse to believe the word of the people who were there
I didn't say I refused to believe. I said that I hold what they say to scrutiny. Nazis never admitted to it unless they were threatened. nor did anyone else except for jewish people who were there. ( homosexuals, gypsies, et al, never mentioned any holocaust)

>How often do you need a killer's instrument to be displayed, and the corpse, after the trial is over and the sentence passed?
old cases are dug up when there's new evidence or the breakdown of old evidence all the time. that's the great joke about it. it's just that in this case:
>old evidence being broken "well you're a holocaust denier I can't believe the lols what a retarded red-piller"
>new evidence - "the case is shut, it definitely happened. you're not allowed to question it, we can't bring this up again it's too hurtful."

that's actually the great joke about the holocaust, that it's treated so differently than other cases.

Ultimately I'm of the notion that it doesn't matter if it happened or not

>>9399711
>all the believers that haven't been burned at the stake agree with the church, so the church is right

>>9402885
stop playing the victim

>>9402568
>the search for more efficient killing techniques led to the development of specially prepared vans, Gaswagen

oh that's convenient, i suppose none of these "gaswagen" have ever been found right

>>9402753
>How often do you need a killer's instrument to be displayed, and the corpse, after the trial is over and the sentence passed? Do the killer's inheritors get to say in seventy years "where is the body? where are the living witnesses? how do you know that instrument is even mine?" and demand that the record be expunged, their ancestor declared innocent?

well it turns out some of the people accused of witchcraft actually turned out to be innocent women that were not in fact witches, so sometimes even people convicted of very serious crimes that go against every fiber of our morality are just big hoaxes

>>9403048
Why do you love nazis so much?

this thread has piqued my interest,

reading up on holocaust denial on wikipedia:

>In 1980, the IHR promised a $50,000 reward to anyone who could prove that Jews were gassed at Auschwitz. Mel Mermelstein wrote a letter to the editors of the LA Times and others including The Jerusalem Post. The IHR wrote back, offering him $50,000 for proof that Jews were, in fact, gassed in the gas chambers at Auschwitz.

>Mermelstein, in turn, submitted a notarized account of his internment at Auschwitz and how he witnessed Nazi guards ushering his mother and two sisters and others towards (as he learned later) gas chamber number five.

>Despite this, the IHR refused to pay the reward. Represented by public interest attorney William John Cox, Mermelstein subsequently sued the IHR in the Superior Court of Los Angeles County for breach of contract, anticipatory repudiation, libel, injurious denial of established fact, intentional infliction of emotional distress, and declaratory relief (see case no. C 356 542). On October 9, 1981, both parties in the Mermelstein case filed motions for summary judgment in consideration of which Judge Thomas T. Johnson of the Superior Court of Los Angeles County took "judicial notice of the fact that Jews were gassed to death at the Auschwitz Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944,"[56][57] judicial notice meaning that the court treated the gas chambers as common knowledge, and therefore did not require evidence that the gas chambers existed.


even back in 1980 there was no real evidence for it.

>>9403035
>gaswagen
>The gas van was invented and used by the Soviet secret police NKVD in the late 1930s during the Great Purge.

oh nice, this is a leftists invention! i wonder if jewish communist professors have mixed feelings about this wonderful invention of the left being used by people that disagreed with.

>>9399711
(((historian)))

>>9403058
i didn't say anything about nazi bro, i was just pointing out that all that witchcraft during the 1600 turned out to be a hoax, even tho witchcraft was the most heinous crime one could commit at the time

>>9399644
>No "red-pill" bullshi

you can't possibly be this naive.

are you new here?

>>9403062
claiming the starved bodies of ukranians were jewish nazi victims, claiming the polish officers killed by stalin were jewish civilians, claiming the nazis used stalinist gas vans on civilians, hmmm, one might think german was being set up for all of the soviet union's crimes, but i'm sure that kind of victor's justice would never happen

>>9403078
This thread is, in essence, pure fabrication. There's so many shills here.

>>9399644
David Irving

Sophie's Choice

>>9403105
/pol/

>>9403061
I'm not a holocaust denier or even negotianist but I agree that was total bullshit.

>$50,000 for empirical proof
>okay here's my anecdote
>Sorry, that's not what we were looking for
>GO TO JAIL DO NOT PASS GO

>>9402753
>>9402858
see this is why the original poster was asking you to provide evidence, because once someone responds to your questions you don't have anything and stop responding and kill the thread.

you have no substance
you have no evidence
anyone who debunks the holocaust gets physically attacked.
anyone who questions the holocaust gets libel or arrested
nothing else in history requires this much attention
nothing else in history demands this much "respect" for the narrative.

I don't deny the holocaust, its very much a real part of history because no matter if it happened or not, it's proof of jewish relationship to misinformation.

>oh hurr durr "its da joos" all over again
point to another group of people who have this much control over a narrative? was it just coincidence that holocaust is the most suppressed information in history AND it happened to be jews?

OP back again here. Can a Holocaust denier in this thread link a credible source to back up what they're saying?

Why do Holocaust deniers always try to manipulate the numbers downward and say "Oh well the Nazis only exterminated N people where N << 6,000,000?" Why don't they just say, "yes, Hitler wanted to exterminate the Jewish parasite but didn't finish the job", since that's what they all want anyway?

>>9403185
I hope you like one of the same three jpgs with dodgy sources (if any)

>>9403202
maybe holocaust realists just feel like national socialism was unfairly blamed for atrocities committed by all sides during world war and that it should be given another chance just like jewish professors are always saying about communism

>>9403223
>holocaust realists
hilarious

Again, can I have some links to sources here?
- OP

>>9403248
well if you're going to make wild claims like 6 gorillions were evaporated in ovens, or wait gas chambers, no wait gas vans, no wait, uhh, how ever you say it happened, then the burden of proof is on you bro

>>9403259
You're pretty dumb, bro. Sorry to say.

>>9403265
don't have any proof? sad!

>>9403259
I just want sources that back up what you guys are saying. Okay?

>>9403272
that we're saying nothing happened? why would we need sources for that? you're the one trying to say some big crazy genocide happened in the middle of europe, at least provide some evidence, please no starved ukranians tho, we already know that one

>>9403270
see
>>9403265

>>9403276
go to /pol/
I sure hope you get paid for this shit otherwise you are a complete ass

>>9403185
>>9403248
>>9403272
>Can a Holocaust denier in this thread link a credible source to back up what they're saying?
you can't have evidence for something that didn't happen. that's the point.
we can only debunk the evidence that supports the holocaust, which has been done to death, even in this thread.

>>9403290
>we can only debunk the evidence that supports the holocaust, which has been done to death, even in this thread
4chan proves it! Genius

>>9403276
We have fucktons of proof. Everything written on USHMM.org and the Holocaust page on History.com are extremely reliable sources as they are written by historians that dedicate their lives to researching this subject.

Now if you want to claim that it's false, you need evidence that backs it up.

>>9403290
This is frustrating now. You sound like a fucking idiot to be honest. You need *evidence* and *credible sources* to support your debunkings! Otherwise, why should I take what you say remotely seriously?

>>9403305
It's a shill, don't get too worked up.

>>9403312
> there are "shills" on /lit/


tell me more......

>>9403292
which brings the question why aren't these questions answered and why is it illegal to ask them officially?

>>9403305
>You sound like a fucking idiot to be honest. You need *evidence* and *credible sources* to support your debunkings!
don't get mad. that's not how "questioning the narrative" works

to put in a simple metaphor:

"this is a picture of a fire pit that is used to burn dogs"
"where is the proof that it was used to burn dogs, if anything at all?"
"YOU NEED EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT IT DOESN'T BURN DOGS"

for your amusement please refer to my post here >>9402858


don't worry, I'm helping you guys make a stronger argument for why the holocaust happened.

>>9403293
weird that article on history.com just mentions 2 million, what happened to the 6 gorillion?

>>9403321
Answers were given and unsurprisingly ignored.

>>9403321
Your metaphor doesn't work because we do have evidence that jews were indeed killed in camps. Now if you want to "question the narrative" YOU need evidence to support what your saying.

>>9403327
"Since 1945, the word has taken on a new and horrible meaning: the mass murder of some 6 million European Jews (as well as members of some other persecuted groups, such as Gypsies and homosexuals) by the German Nazi regime during the Second World War"

- History.com Holocaust article

>>9403329
there's only two responses to that post and both of them are mine.

>>9403312
>>9403317
shills push a narrative. such as the holocaust happened

I'm simply asking questions because I'm curious to the answers.

>>9403335
>we do have evidence that jews were indeed killed in camps.
evidence that jews died in camps, as many people died in camps. but I digress
>Now if you want to "question the narrative" YOU need evidence to support what your saying.
how do you provide evidence to support a question? I fail to see how that makes sense.

>provide a picture of a gas chamber that is fit for purpose of gassing people.
an example is to the right, is that evidence of my question?

>provide a picture to support the notion that rooms had gunholes to mow people down
i don't know how to provide evidence to this question. consider old archery holes in castles?

other than that there's just a lot of libel against me because I dare to ask questions.

the only "evidence" that I could actually post would be one of the officials correcting the translation in nuremburg, but it's difficult to find under the swamp of "look at how bad the holocaust was" videos so I apologise and we can dismiss that.

I will actually allow my arguments to be dismissed.

>>9403329
>Answers were given and unsurprisingly ignored.
where?

>>9403367
Read the thread, dumbass. Anon gave an answer the first time you asked. Or are you denying this too?

>>9403373
it's a big thread with a lot of pointless back and forth.

point out the posts seeming you know where they are.

>>9403362
I should have worded it: "We have evidence that gas chambers existed and were used on Jews".

"how do you provide evidence to support a question? I fail to see how that makes sense."

You're making claims against the Holocaust's accepted narrative saying that it didn't happen. If you are going to say such a thing, you need to provide evidence that supports the claim that it didn't happen. It blows my mind I need to even fucking say this.

>>9403377
learn to read you stupid fuck, do your own work, no wonder you're a denying idiot

>>9403379
>You're making claims against the Holocaust's accepted narrative saying that it didn't happen.

no I'm not.

what I'm saying is
>"We have evidence that gas chambers existed and were used on Jews".
the evidence that I have seen suggest they used wooden doors and no safe ventilation methods.
I have doubts that a wooden unsealed door and no safe ventilation methods was used as a gas chamber.
the evidence of this is thus: gas can escape around the wooden doors, people can break down wooden doors ( given the strength of human self-preservation) and would stay in the room not allowing guards to clear out the room for the next lot of jews to be gassed.

if theres any evidence of gas chambers that do not have these faults, please show me them, because I would love to see them and put this idea to bed.

>>9403388
>>9403379
the following is an example of your argument style:

>The holohoax claims raised my curiosity because it sounded plausible, until I researched the actual facts. Read for yourself, the actual facts are freely available on the internet,there is plenty of actual evidence. Many of the holohoax claims are clearly based on lies and very apparent, it’s a typical conspiracy scenario that doesn’t hold up because of the actual size of the deception required. I approached this with a completely open mind and not assuming one side or the other was correct.

read more here >>9400740

>>9403398
"the evidence that I have seen suggest they used wooden doors and no safe ventilation methods.
I have doubts that a wooden unsealed door and no safe ventilation methods was used as a gas chamber.
the evidence of this is thus: gas can escape around the wooden doors, people can break down wooden doors ( given the strength of human self-preservation) and would stay in the room not allowing guards to clear out the room for the next lot of jews to be gassed."

Now link me to a credible source that supports this statement.

>>9403398
Quit abstracting and read the thread, some anon answered your question.

>>9403388
>do your own work
this is the answer that passed around when there's no actual answer.

>but what about Y
>hurr do your own work

no anon, that's not how it works. if you support something you're meant to defend it.

>>9403413
see
>>9403411

just that fact that this thread is already 317 posts and no one has been able to come up with an evidence for holocaust shows it's pretty shaky, you would think something that major should be a slam dunk right, no wonder millenials are getting redpilled left and right these days

>>9403421
I came up with evidence, it's the deniers that have linked absolutely nothing to support their "debunkings".

>>9403421
yeah, sure shill

>>9403431
shill for whom exactly?

>>9403410
>gas can escape around the wooden doors
given that almost any wooden door has gaps around the top, bottom, and side. I think it's obvious that gas can escape.
do you run out of oxygen when a wooden door closes to your room? no, because gas ( air ) can get in.
credible source is your own bedroom

>people can break down wooden doors ( given the strength of human self-preservation)
I was referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysterical_strength but I was caught out with "though supporting evidence is scarce"
I understand that, but suppose one does not need super human strength to break down wooden doors.
credible source is literally any firefighter who had to get into a burning house.

>[gas] would stay in the room not allowing guards to clear out the room for the next lot of jews to be gassed.
where would the gas go in a safe manner? please explain to me how the chamber became "safe" for guards to be in there once all the jews were dead.
credible source - modern gas chambers have ventilation.

I'm expecting this post to go without answers.


>>9403427
>>9403411
>I came up with evidence
>some anon answered your question.
where?
inb4
>do your own work

like I said, my posts only have me responding to them.

I'm always eager to find answers because I love to extend my knowledge, you guys are the only ones getting mad and maybe it's because I'm questioning God's chosen people.

>>9403464
"you guys are the only ones getting mad and maybe it's because I'm questioning God's chosen people"

No, we're mad at you because you still won't cite evidence for the shit keep saying. Is it really that difficult?

Now all we need is a mod to come in and delete the thread and we'll have

>no answers yet again

I just hope that someone came along for the ride and was able to see that there's obvious flaws in the story.

>>9403464
>I'm questioning God's chosen people
what did you mean by this?

>>9403480
Wrong, there are answers, but maybe not if you're a denyer.

>>9403479
>cite evidence
evidence of what?

>gas getting around wooden doors
see also: gas can escape unsealed containers
>people breaking down wooden doors
see also: firefighters
>gas not being ventilated
see also: science laboratories.

>>9403484
the jews call themselves God's chosen people, that is what I'm referring to.
>inb4 you bring up this statement again and ignore my actual questions.

>>9403494
>there are answers
again, where are the answers? I had a quick skim of the thread, but maybe i didn't look hard enough, please point it out to me.

>>9403506
Evidence for the shit that you're saying. Link me to credible sites that support your claim. If you don't do this within the next post, I'm leaving this thread because then it will become clear that this argument is fucking pointless.

>>9403520
i'm starting to think this guy is an alt-right troll whose goal is to convince the holocaust didn't happen and there is no evidence that it did...well, if so, mission accomplished!

>>9403524
samefag

>>9403520
>Link me to credible sites that support your claim

WHAT CLAIM?

I am not claiming anything. there is nothing that I am "claiming"

if you tell me what I am claiming, I will provide evidence of the claim that I am making, but as of my knowledge, I am not claiming anything. Please tell me what claim so that I may defend myself.


* turns to the rest of /lit/ *
do you see how he's trying to turn the argument around?

>>9403546
You think /lit/ is not aware of sophistry? You should be ashamed and stop posturing like a fool.

>>9403554
will you not point out the claim I am making?

what false info did I give? I will defend it to the best of my ability. just tell me what it is.

>>9403560
learn to read

>>9403562
>Read for yourself, the actual facts are freely available on the internet,there is plenty of actual evidence. Many of the holohoax claims are clearly based on lies and very apparent

you are refering back to the same argumentive style that I pointed out to you previously.

ie I ask you a direct question and you tell me to find the answers myself.

it works in a philosophical sense, as your rabbi would tell you, but not in a logical argument sense, when we're debating a particular topic of reason.

>>9403570
The fact is that you don't even remember what question you asked that I am referring to, and to which an anon definitively provided an answer that was ignored. But you are on your abstract quest for THE ANSWERS, answers you believe do not exist. This whole thread is a sorry spectacle. Again, and for the last time, if you took the time to read, you wouldn't need to debase yourself like this >>9403560

>>9403608
are you saying you want me to provide
>credible sites that support my claim
that
>gas can get around wooden doors
>gas chambers need ventilation
>people can break down wooden doors.

as in, the above 3 are my claims, and you want credible evidence to support those 3 claims?

also If I ignored any answers I apologise, please point them out to me so that I may address them and correct my mistake.

I believe that answers do exist to my questions.
>Q: where are evidence of the gas chambers that are suitable for purpose?
A: the gas chambers presented by pictures in the holocaust site so they must be true.
>Q: evidence of the legitimacy of accounts
A: they were posted on the holocaust site so they must be true
>Q: psychological reasoning
A: obviously everyone hated the jews so everyone would happily kill them by the millions

they are answers, why were they not pointed out earlier? again if they were, I apologise, please point them out to me so I can correct my mistake.

>>9403644
Here's a credible that disproves all of your claims.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/holocaust-denial-and-the-big-lie

>>9402858
So you just have a normal firepit? A normal firepit doesn't have any signs of dog burning. Where are your eyewitnesses? Dogs didn't go missing when you killed them because they can breed?

Are you retarded or something?

>brought up earlier in the thread and shown to be false
Where?

>wooden doors
https://www.quora.com/In-the-Holocaust-were-the-gas-chamber-doors-really-made-out-of-wood

>http://remember.org/witness/elsiev
No mention of knives or rollercoasters. You can simply google the wheeled carts that led to the ovens, if you like.

>this is what she learned but where was the proof
So wait, if there weren't gun slits for shooting then this disproves the Holocaust?

>they did not want to exterminate, they wanted to "get rid of"
Do you know what a euphemism is?

You're acting legitimately mentally retarded. A point-by-point response to your statements is onerous and fruitless.

>>9403862
thank you, this is what I have asked for and I thank your ability to provide it.

I have seen some of my claims are already laid to waste.

>>9403290
>you can't have evidence for something that didn't happen
Sure you can. Evidence that your dad didn't die yesterday? Show me your dad alive today. Evidence that you didn't just eat that cake I made? Show me the cake, whole and uneaten.

It's pretty easy to imagine evidence that any given detail of the Holocaust didn't happen, if it didn't. But it really depends on which parts of the Holocaust you are denying; some things are harder to show the lack of, others are easier. Care to draw up a list of specific elements of the series of events generally referred to as the Holocaust?

>>9403893
>Where?
see: >>9400139

>wooden doors
thank you for the link and it also provided pictures, I am happy

>elsiev
I was talking about the gun holes in that one. but regardless. the trolley/oven combo was suggested to be used for the food industry in the camps. ovens are very small and can only fit individual humans, which bring us back to the "how did they do so many so fast" question.

>so this disproves the holocaust
no it disproves her account. she is just one of many, I'm sure other accounts would stand up to scrutiny.

>euphemism
yes, and do you know what mis-translation is? I'm arguing that it was purposely mistranslated for the narrative.

it is fruitless because I'm not going to convince jews that their holocaust didn't happen.

>>9403926
good point with the cake and dad.
wish you were around earlier in the thread.

this thread has already reached bump and I've already wasted a lot of hours into it.

>>9403862
has posted a source to some of my questions so I am content to read up a bit.

>>9403950
So you actually are just ignorant, stupid, and need to be spoonfed? Jesus Christ.

>>9403950
>how did they do so many so fast
Do you not know how multiplication works? With multiple different methods of killing, multiple simultaneous instances of each method, and multiple hours in the day spanning the entire duration, how could it be difficult to reach those numbers?

>>9403950
>I've already wasted a lot of hours into it
Because you don't know how to efficiently teach yourself anything or make efficient use of other people. That leaves the option of relying on the intellectual charity of others while doing your damnedest to prevent them from helping you or even wanting to help you in the first place.

I wish I had jewish parents.

>>9404014
>Because you don't know how to efficiently teach yourself anything or make efficient use of other people.
Fucking this, dude. OP could have gotten this information much faster without false flagging and being a little shit.

>>9404014
>you don't know how to efficiently teach yourself anything or make efficient use of other people.
I had questions that I couldn't find satisfactory answers to. so I came to /lit/
> while doing your damnedest to prevent them from helping you
how did I prevent them? I had asked questions and asked them to clarify when needed

>>9404056
As far as I can tell you were the person decrying the lack of evidence but who was completely uncooperative when asked to help people help you get what you want.

I have a especial dislike of people who hinder people who just want to help them.

wow this thread is the ultimate redpill, all these holocaust believers just have no facts, no evidence

>>9404109
Read the thread to the end, friend. It's worth it.

>>9404118
Don't bother, it's probably just the same false-flagging troll.

I don't even know what the fuck's going on anymore. This is exceeding to a new level of cancer, I'm deleting this post shortly.

>>9404021
This desu
All my Jewish friends had wise cracking family antics and I was always really jealous that they had a culture

>>9404250
Poor kid. What culture did your parents most closely identify with, and why did they embody its useful aspects so poorly?

>>9404260
Primarily Norwegian. Not their fault though, my grandmother was a pure Norwegian immigrant and never instilled any of its culture in my mom and her brothers.

My dad's just a vague, run-of-the-mill European mutt

>>9404329
Surely your grandma thought that the prevailing culture was somehow worthwhile enough that the instillation was unnecessary? What was this prevailing culture, or why did you mom and her brothers not cultivate worthwhile cultural elements so they could be passed on to you? For that matter, why don't you acculturate yourself so you have something to offer your kids?

Shame about your dad. People with no sense of cultural identity are quite sad.

Have you ever talked to them about it?

>>9399670
If 4chan had likes you would get mine

>>9399644
orwell