/lit/ - Literature

>>9269731
you died before god was done with you.

>>9269731
Not being related with literature it's the first reason that comes to mind.

>>9269731
Jesus didn't want to have to see Judas again, it would have been too awkward

so the police can intervene

>>9269731
God decided in the beginning to send people who were predestined to kill themselves to hell
that's all there is to it

>>9269731
Denying yourself the gift of life God has given and planned out for you.

>>9269738
/thread.

>>9269747
>that's all there is to it
This is why Christians are retarded.

>>9269752
Not a Christian, just parodying Calvinism, which, though, I do think is the most consistent and thoroughgoing Christian worldview

>>9269740
Kek

>>9269748
>gift of life
some fucking gift, can i return it?

>>9269731
If cult followers thought it was okay to kill themselves then the church would lose money. Customers dying is bad for business.

>>9269731
Aristocrats needed the burgeois and the plebs to keep working despite how miserable they were, so they made suicide a sin.
Also, imagine it wasn't a sin, people would kill themselves the moment they realized they did more good actions than bad ones. Even if suicide was considered a bad action you would only need to do enough good ones to justify it and a little bit to more so Saint Peter would calculate that you're just good enough for purgatory treatment. The entire work structure of medieval society would have been destroyed, everyone would become adventurers of good faith because why work when you can achieve heaven by doing some good shit and then offing yourself.

>>9269762
apparently that's not allowed

>>9269747
>>9269757
You realize that the only retards that say shit like this are ironic bait-posters like you, right?

>>9269762
Devolutions, like in any service, are a messy and disgusting process.

>>9269769
god's the type of faggot who'd give you an expired gift card for your birthday and act incredulously shocked if you try and return it to him.

>>9269731
Life is sacred.

>>9269779
>life is a definitive category

>>9269765
Jesus Christ can you take this teenage trite to /r/Atheism please?

>>9269762
>Awww want to die anon? (:,3
>Go ahead.

How about you stop being edgy, stop posting on 4chan, and do something productive with your life.

>>9269731

if followers of a religion don't live to reproduce that religion will not reproduce

>>9269773
no

>>9269799
you sound like a massive faggot

One follower of the church fewer

>5'6" manlet
>ugly
>lonely
>broke
>stupid
>too afraid to kill myself because i don't wanna go to hell

just fuck my shit up

>>9269790
Need a safespace, honey?

>>9269731
Idle labor is bad, wasted labor is worse.

>>9269804
Ya bro. That was what the great awakening was for. Or was it the age of enlightenment?
If everything was predestined, there is no free will, and free will is a concept every modern Christian clings to.

You just end up looking like an salty atheist my dude :/

>>9269814
Have you consider transitioning? estrogen is surprisingly cheap, and so are the anti androgens.
N-not like I'm doing it or anything.

>>9269830
what are you talking about?
that's an awful lot of eisegesis

>>9269834
first of all: stop trying to pick up trap gfs on /lit/

secondly: i'm literally too ugly and too masculine-looking to transition. my face is a fucking rectangle, my shoulders are broad and i have a hank hill ass

>>9269767
stupid
Suicide was honourable in Rome as seen as a legitimate way to make up for whatever dishonour
didn't mean people killed themselves left and right

>>9269731

it's a giant middle finger to God

you reject all he created, and he gets butthurt about it

it's like calling an artist's painting shit, the pretentious faggot can't handle it

>>9269858
>it's like calling an artist's painting shit, the pretentious faggot can't handle it
jej

suicide is pretty dumb honestly unless you at least make it artistic like Yukio Mishima

>>9269731
To reject the kingdom of life is to reject the kingdom of Heaven. Jesus said, "Blessed are the weak in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven."; It can be argued that those who commit suicide are the most weak spirited. However, the actual act of killing one's self is an act of will. It is the willful decision to end one's life that is a sin, not the weakness.

>>9269873
>implying it's dumb to end your life on your own terms, if you are not actively impacting the world and are leading a fruitless and unenjoyable existence
>implying it's dumb to take control of your own life, even if it means death

I want all you non-Ubermensch to leave my realm and never return.

Because if it wasn't you'd get dumb people killing their kids to get them into heaven. And because suicide rates would go up which is bad for the government (less taxes).
In truth I think God can forgive it.

>>9269892
>Because if it wasn't you'd get dumb people killing their kids to get them into heaven.
that's not suicide

>>9269888
>an actual Übermensch would care about what a bunch of uttershit does
I guess you're taking a rest after writing the final part of that music piece that will change the world forever.

>>9269887
so theoretically if i was depressed and ready to kill myself, i could cheat the system by undertaking incredibly risky activities that could mean my death - and when i do die, i'm still able to get into heaven because i TECHNICALLY didn't take my own life

>>9269838
I was building off what (you) >>9269747 said earlier, right?
>People who are predestined to kill themselves go to hell
>implying that there are people who are predestined to do something that will put them in hell
That would undermine the concept that humans have a free will, and that by their will alone they can be saved or go to hell.
And, as it stands, "free will" is a nearly universal defense against many atheistic attacks, hence why so many modern Christians cling to it.

>>9269912
>I guess you're taking a rest after writing the final part of that music piece that will change the world forever.
yes.

pic related is literally me

>>9269916
You're willfully deciding to put your self in risky situations with the hope of death.
You did take your own life, at least any semblance of one.

>>9269933
I've always wanted to speak to Kanye, though I feel like he's heard some of what I've had to say.

>>9269935
alright but what if I'm ready to kill myself but on the way to the store to get a length of rope, I'm hit by a car and fatally killed. what happens then?

>>9269944
Then it was God's will to save you.

>>9269950
but he didn't save me, cause i got hit by a car and died.

>>9269951
Your soul.

>>9269888
>>implying it's dumb to end your life on your own terms
it is
its not "your own terms" that's just petty romanticism idiots use to justify it for themselves when they steal their mums sleeping pills and slit their wrists in the tub

if you're killing yourself more often then not its because you're weak not because you're strong

>>9269902
was thinking of that weird purgatory for babies christians have. Disregard that part.

>>9269731
so that the worker bees don't kill themselves

>>9269954
No, he didn't believe in jesus. He wouldve gone to hell weither way lol

>>9269954
aye but i got hit by a car and died

>>9269963
I'd like to think not.

>>9269957
>if you're killing yourself more often
yeah I've been killing myself more and more often recently. It's been hard on me.

I'm getting into a lot of obligations because of this 'soul' thing how do I get rid of it?

Guys this is semi-related. It's religious, atleast.

How do I summon and have sex with the angel Gabriel? He's really cute and probably a subby bottom too.

Honestly, why are there so many of you that believe a sin is an ultimate ticket into hell?

Suicide may be a sin, however, jesus fucking DIED for ALL my sins. How is this different?

>>9270025
Suicide is the ultimate sin, anon. It's a guaranteed ticket to hell, no matter how much good you do in your life - if you succumb to your sadness and your depression and kill yourself, then you have no place in the kingdom of our father.

>>9270025
going full reconciliationist undermines the worldly power of the church

>>9270032
you didn't provide an explanation, you just restated the explanandum

>>9269731
You can't exploit people if they're dead.

>>9270025
Your sins are only forgiven if you repent. There is no time after you kill yourself to confess and repent your sin.

>>9270062
What are some non-repentable sins, anon? If I kill someone, can I repent? Can I repent despite taking a soul, taking someone away before god is finished with them? Or was did god plan for me to kill them?

>>9270070
Depends if you really mean it in your heart. You can't fake it with God.

Because your body is a temple, a gift from God.

t. Catholic

>>9270062
-ingest poison
-repent and wait
-die saved

>>9270077
And what of the person I killed? What if they sinned and were on their way to repent but I killed them before they were able to repent. Then what?

>>9270081
You think that GOD can't see through that cheap trick?

>>9270078
but i'm a fat balding manlet, if my body is a temple, it's probably the equivalent to a mosque.

>>9270089
That's literally the unspoken contract of Catholicism, just distilled to the bare minimum

To imply that good Catholics aren't doing the same thing on some level is implying that they have no control over their actions whatsoever

>>9269892
>less taxes
less expenses too

>>9270078

fuck you God, why did you have to make me balding?

nice gift, asshole

>>9270095
>>9270327
Because he's testing your faith, you petulant manchildren.

>>9270343

why didn't he test chad's faith? oh wait chad has everything he wants and more

fuck right off

>>9270363
>physical looks is all that matters in this life

Egregiously pathetic. Try again.

>>9270078
tell that to all the people who abandoned me

>>9270366

no but it matters a shit ton, society is shallow

grow up m8, and come out of your gated christian community sometime you privilged piece of shit

>>9270383
>society is shallow

You shouldn't care what others think of you, for they are only man. No man can judge you, not even yourself; only God himself can.

>>9270363
Other than a head of hair, what does Chad have that you can't get?

>>9269731
You can't have the working force off itself to get to heaven quickly whenever shit hits the fan.

>>9269731
No one is probably going to read this but here's a quote from Augustine's City of God.
>For it is clear that if no one has a private right to kill even a guilty man (and no law allows this), then certainly anyone who kills himself is a murderer, and is the more guilty in killing himself the more innocent he is of the charge on which he has condemned himself to death.

>>9269731
your life doesnt belong to you so suicide is theft

>>9270417

I always enjoy some quotes from Augustine, thank you for posting

>>9269731
you murdered yourself
it's still murder, thus still a sin

>>9269733

God tries to force you to play his little game but if you decide you don't want to he retaliates by giving you a life of eternal suffering

He seems very childish

god is satan, satan is the universe and everyone is a schizophrenic fragment of him contracted to the universe by the love of power. the soul is whatever passes through the set but doesn't belong to it. you damage that soul and no one can change that. god doesn't control it. to control is to be controlled, by you, god, satan. duh. everyone knows this...

>>9270615

>>9269731
By taking your own life, you literally become your own God. OG God don't like that.

>>9270645
>if you killed enough people you'd just be reincarnated as god, the ultimate punishment

>>9269731
All religions build upon the mores that preceded them, Christianity is no different. It has been necessary to stigmatize suicide for the same reason religion was propagated, to placate the masses and keep them drudging away.

>>9270649
>hell is other people

>>9270656
*tips*

>>9270667
you missed the devil trips to authenticate that

>>9270025
i actually like what G.K. Chesterton wrote about suicide, it's really funny because he was a christian and was against it, but somehow after reading him i think about suicide as a beautiful thing that has a lot of dignity and it's basically saying "fuck you" to god and all his creation

>Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse (symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage. For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime. He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City. The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them. But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it. He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer.

>>9269731
that's a fantastic painting

>>9270689
People criticize the Chesterton quote, but I think it does a good job of emphasizing the egotism inherent in suicide

>>9269773
Calvinism is real, anon.

self harms are the biggest sins of today. To take your own time you deny that your certain death was right for you, even if it was the next day.

>>9270724
thanks

>>9270786
Why do you imagine a divide between certain death and suicide? How is suicide any less a certain death than getting murdered or hit by a car with a clueless driver?

>>9269762
xDDD upboated! Here's some gold fellow redditor! Way to show those sky fairy fanatics!

>>9270689
This is what collectivism does to people. I'll do whatever the fuck I please, thanks, you can keep your ecumenical sophist garbage.

human being is not really a unified entity, its more like an archipelago of being-lets or subminds. suicide is one or a few of the subminds banding together and murdering all of the others along with themselves

>>9269738
Actually, there is a book called The Savage God which addresses this topic directly. To paraphrase quickly, a bunch of supposed christians were going around committing suicide in order to ascend to heaven, St. Augustine came along and made it a part of the church's doctrine that suicide was a worse sin than murder, giving the church full right to all of your property as condolence.

The book was also part of the required reading for a class that William Gaddis taught when he was a visiting professor, called the Literature of Failure, or something like that.

>>9270615
He doesnt force you to do anything. You have free will

>>9270689
god, what an unpleasant and self-absorbed man

>His act is worse (symbolically considered)
>(symbolically considered)
>*begins making shit up after pulling that qualification out of his ass*

if only he wasn't such a good prose stylist, people would see through him immediately; regrettably everything he writes is both beautiful and beautifully wrong

>>9270760
even if i were christian, which i'm not, it would seen absurd to me to defend the sinful nature of suicide by any appeal based on how it "insults everything on earth" or "destroys all buildings; ... insults all women", that is, on grounds temporal rather than divine

it may be egotistical -- in some sense -- for someone to commit suicide; it is a hundred times more egotistical for me to condemn them for hurting ME through their act, which is brought about only by their life being so full of suffering that they see no value in continuing further

it's absolutely ridiculous to say, "oh, how dare you SELFISHLY try to end your own suffering! it's such an insult to ME! why, i'm being RAPED! STOLEN FROM! INSULTED!!!"

>>9269731
Your body is a temple etc. The importance of the body is reflected through several ways in the Bible, prime example being Christ sacrificing his for us. Etc. Our life is His, we only borrow it.

>>9270989
Nothing he ever wrote was about himself. Your jealousy is showing.

>>9270615
No where in the Bible does it say hell is forever. No where. You know what it does say? That hell is destroyed. Someone should read their Bible. Especially before you post on /lit/ about something you know hardly anything about.... oh wait, I'm on 4chan.

>>9271006
nowhere did i say that he "wrote about himself"

conjuring up some strawmanned image of what a suicidal person is like and attacking it, and then saying that suicide "insults" the external world (of which he is presumably a member), qualifies as self-absorbed to me

i would not like to be personally acquainted with anyone who would say or agree with that chesterton quote

feel free to conclude otherwise; your thoughts are your own

>>9271017
Really? Because when he says it insults the external world he doesn't decide to mention himself, he speaks about nature and concludes that with "there is not a tiny creature...." a self absorbed person I do not think would write that. Not to mention that would be entirely inconsistent with his own world view being a Christian. I just don't see how your conclusion follows based on what was written at all.

>>9270999
>my life is so full of suffering waaah waaah
I don't see guys like these complaining as fucking bad as you do. You're a fucking bitch-ass faggot.

>for someone to commit suicide; it is a hundred times more egotistical for me to condemn them for hurting ME through their act, which is brought about only by their life being so full of suffering that they see no value in continuing further

You're a bitch. If you hate your life so fucking much then fucking kill yourself instead of wallowing on your nonsense.

>>9271032
Not him but it's time you go back to /b/ because you did an excellent job not reading what he wrote. And if you actually did, which I admit is entirely possible, you failed in understanding to such a great extent I am forced to assume you have brain damage.

>>9271024
Ok, to be clear, the reason why it seems self-absorbed to me is because it involves no principled or genuine interrogation of what suicidal people are actually thinking; I think that constructing a farcical mental model of someone else, tearing it down, and then pretending you've won the argument and made your case is pretty self-absorbed.

>he doesn't decide to mention himself, he speaks about nature
Right, but it feels intuitively to me like he's sort of just externalizing his Christian belief of suicide as sin and using his rhetorical talent to come up with some plausible-sounding reason why suicide is offensive to everyone (consequently justifying his own beliefs).

Obviously I'm speculating. I could be wrong. But the amount of vitriol and hatred in that Chesterton quote is astonishing to me. It makes me immediately think that he didn't spend any time or effort trying to understand others and just assumed that any deviations from his own mindset were due to weaknesses or sins on their part. For me that falls squarely under the umbrella of self-absorbed.

>Not to mention that would be entirely inconsistent with his own world view being a Christian.
Well, sure, but people aren't logically consistent in general, and Chesterton was no exception, beautiful prose or not. See e.g. http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/25/book-review-whats-wrong-with-the-world/

>>9271032
wtf? i'm not even depressed, suffering, or suicidal, what the fuck are you rambling on about? fuck off retard

>>9271016
Citation?

>>9271066
The Revelation of Saint John. Just go ahead and read the whole thing.

>>9271063
And what are suicidal people actually thinking?

>>9271040
>>9271063
>you don't know what suicidal people are thinking
I fucking do, I was suicidal and it's not a position that deserves respect. It deserves to be challenged. Suicidal fucks that get pampered and go unchallenged only become fuck-ups. I'm not saying to make fun of them, that's not the point. But challenge their stupid worldview. I've yet to know a suicidal person that's not privileged in some way.

>>9271096
You know what you thought as a suicidal person. I would say that it could be generalized that suicidal people have rationalized and justified that nothing is worth living for. Which G.K. Mentions. Although that is probably more important for the other anon you replied to and not so much you particularly. Also I never said you didn't know what they were thinking, it was actually my question to other anon as to what they are "actually thinking".

>>9271079
Presumably about how much suffering they've gone through and how much suffering they'll go through in the future, or something like that?

>the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life
Like I think it's sort of obviously not an issue of "lack of interest" in existence, as though someone just decided, "well, I can't be arsed to take the 'oath of loyalty to life,' damn I'm tired, guess I'll just kill myself or something." No, it's more like, "well, I'm not happy now, I haven't been happy in years, and as far as I can tell I won't be happy in the years to come, so I'm not sure why I should keep living," complete with hundreds of layers of rationalizations of the form of "well, the world is probably better off without me" and "I'm just a burden to others around me." Interpreting that as a "symbolic insult" and then acting as though that arbitrary interpretation makes the act immeasurably worse is not exactly the height of critical inquiry.

>>9271096
brilliant, feel free to publish your revolutionary insights about clinical depression and upend the entire world of psychiatry whenever you see fit, maybe when you take a break from generalizing from personal anecdotes or trivializing the suffering of others

>>9270962
This post is certified euphoric

>>9271006
>other people's taking of their own lives is actually about everyone but themselves
this is a kind of self absorption, viewing everything in your own retarded terms

>>9271074
Lol dude stop. You cant cite the verse because it doesn't exist. Hell is forever for fags like you

>>9271100
But that is exactly what happens. There is a point where people are suicide and the point that they actually do decide to go through. And ultimately it boils down to not wanting to exist anymore. Whether they can find a reason to live or not, they simply don't want to live. Damn near every thing excluding the natural sciences is subjective and arbitrary. I still don't see how you would arrive at the ultimate conclusion that he is self absorbed by what he wrote. I hear a lot of buts and what ifs but not much as to how anything he said is simply wrong. And again, it is just subjective anyway. What you think and what he thinks has no dividing barrier in regards to building up a particular point of view in attempts to tear the other down.

>>9271135
Revelation 20:14. Not going to hold your hand anymore go back to /b/.

>>9271131
Show me where it says that.

I'm coming from a strictly rational place here, but the image of God is inviolable, such that persons possess God-defined dignity in religious systems.

In this light, suicide is a defiling or destruction of a God-chosen characteristic of human life: its ability to reason, experience, and engage a morally compassed world of potential actions.

Being made in the image of God does not mean looking like God of course: it means possessing certain characteristics of God (free will especially) which have been imprinted upon man by the Creator.

Using such free will to destroy a God-given existence with inherent, God-valued qualities is a deep affront to existence itself.

It is a refusal to acknowledge the possibility that we are accountable to God.

It is a quite literal self-murder of a living temple of the Holy Spirit.

>>9271143
Ya that doesnt mean gods letting you out of hell. The lake of fire still clearly exists in that verse and the next. Thats harkening back to the prophecy in corinthians that the last enemy Jesus conquers is death. Try Mt. 25:46. Or literally a few chapters earlier Rev. 14:11

>>9271140
What is "simply wrong" about the Chesterton quote is the assumption that these "symbolic harms" matter at all. Suicide does not LITERALLY "destroy all buildings" or "insult all women" or "defile every flower" -- it just doesn't.

Okay, sure, if you sum up the "symbolic harm" done to every single person then, yes, maybe suicide is the "symbolically worst" act conceivable. So fucking what? Who cares? I'll take a million "symbolic harms" over any, uh, actual, physical harm.

Chesterton compares suicide to raping or sneering at someone, but unjustifiably so. Can you actually tell me that the sort of violence (either physical or emotional) and desire for power over others connoted by raping and sneering is truly inherent in suicide? Really? Just drawing the comparison in flowery language doesn't make it true.

>Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life.
The first half of this is just a regurgitation of the Christian position; the second half is just nonsense. Suicidal people are not "disinterested" in existence as though they were just expressing their preference for chocolate ice cream. This is just plainly wrong.

>The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world.
The claim here is that from the standpoint of the person committing suicide, the perceived outcome of committing suicide is the same as perceived outcome of destroying the entire universe (somehow). But you'll find that most people, including myself and the majority of suicidal people, believe in the existence of a world persisting beyond our immediate perceptions, and so most people who commit suicide do not actually believe that their act is equivalent to wiping out the world.

So if someone isn't wiping out the world and doesn't believe themselves to be wiping out the world, in what nontrivial sense can they be said to be wiping out the world "as far as [they] are concerned"?

>>9271171
He said symbolic not literal you aspie

>>9271176
Going into the realm of symbols doesn't mean you can just make shit up. Suicide doesn't symbolize what he says it does -- see e.g. his comparison to raping and sneering at people.

If Chesterton believes symbolic harms to matter in a way that outweighs consequences and intent, then he should justify it.

>>9271170
Anything that goes into the lake of fire is eternally destroyed. The Bible says that the lake of fire “means the second death.” (Revelation 20:14; 21:8) The first kind of death mentioned in the Bible resulted from Adam’s sin. This death can be reversed by resurrection and will eventually be eliminated by God. 1Corinthians 15:21, 22, 26.

There is no release from the symbolic lake of fire
The lake of fire represents a different, or second, kind of death. Although it too represents a state of total inactivity, it is different in that the Bible says nothing about a resurrection from the second death. For example, the Bible says that Jesus has “the keys of hell and of death,” showing that he has the authority to release people from the death brought by Adam’s sin. (Revelation 1:18; 20:13, KingJames Version) However, neither Jesus nor anyone else has a key to the lake of fire. That symbolic lake represents eternal punishment in the form of permanent destruction. 2Thessalonians 1:9.

Now go away.

>>9271171
It's time like these where it is too bad he is dead and the two of you can't be having this conversation. All this is, is you expressing what you believe to be right and him doing the same. If your argument is hah he is self absorbed for asserting his view is right (which he doesn't) and then you come along with you own view, that you believe to be right is quite ridiculous. Like I said, it is subjective, it is right to every one who agrees with it, and wrong to those who don't. There is no objective measure in either of yours or his view. Also I like his better.

>>9271184
So you agree with me? Then why are you being so obnoxious?

>>9271194
Incorrect. Hell and the lake of Fire are separate things. Hell is destroyed forever. Gave you everything you needed to realize this including direct quotes since you are so damn lazy and can't even perform a simple search. Don't even try to play it off like you were just pretending to be retarded.

>>9271191
So you believe that acts should be judged, at least in part, by the consequences *as perceived by the person committing the act after the act is committed*?

That's a pretty bizarre thing to accept. But that's what Chesterton is implicitly assuming.

You can say it's a matter of opinion but that doesn't mean we can't think about what he's implying or implicitly assuming .

>>9271201
Looks like your just trying to read a lot into something that isnt there. The bible is very clear on this. Not sure why youre being so obtuse except for the fact that youre a giant psued who thinks he found a loophole. Language like "forever and ever" and "eternal punishment" are very clear. Nowhere in the bible does it say hell will be destroyed. Youre pulling that out of your ass. Yes death will be conquered. That means physical death

>>9271202
What does a dead person perceive? No one knows. An act should be judged by who it harms and how it harms them. The one the thing I don't necessarily agree with is suicide being worse than rape. It is worse in so far as looking from a "God believing" perspective as it is somewhat of an insult to God in a way, but so is rape, the difference being suicide is not passive while rape is. It is a direct insult, sort of like God giving you the greatest gift and saying this socks. I don't know if you are a parent but imagine giving your child a present you think they will love and cherish and having them hate it. It is not a good feeling, and this is hardly a good example. But there is no good worldly example in matters concerning God for the most part. This is not the down play rape, it is also terrible even in a world view void of God. But I would say when God is involved it can actually be conceived as worse. They are both destructive.

>>9271211
No. I am actually just quoting what the Bible actually says. And giving you the quotes that say it. Take your 15 year old lol no rebuttal elsewhere.

>>9270070

Other than suicide, I'm pretty sure atheism/denouncing God is the only other unforgivable sin. Simply for the sole reason that to repent being an atheist would mean that you'd have to believe in and pray to God, which is a self defeating idea. If you truly denounced him you'd never repent.

>>9271215
your gift analogy is bad because with a gift at least it's usually no worse than not having gotten it* but it's not clear that this applies to everyone's life

also if you can't get your child a present they like then you're a crappy parent (no gift > bad gift)

* some nuances do apply e.g. if it comes attached with a tacit expectation of usage (like say someone gives you a dish of horrible cookies and expects you to eat them all) it can be worse than not having gotten anything at all

>>9271254
All sin that is committed can be repented for. As it is an act of asking for pardon, not an act which grants it. God forgives sins, sins are not forgiven in the act of asking forgiveness. The only sin, and this is according to the Bible, which will not be forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

You can repeat x sin and repent x times. It doesn't mean you will be forgiven for any number of them. As again, it is an act of asking for forgiveness, not the receiving of it.

>>9271257
Some kids don't like certain things. If your parent has never gotten you something you ended up not liking good on them. But as for others who have had this experience, to say it makes the parent automatically a bad one is more than stupid. And yes, I admitted it was bad and why, I would also my reason for why it is bad is better than the one you gave. Also, if you didn't get your child a gift out of fear that they wouldn't like it, now that would make you a crappy parent.

>>9271218
Am i being trolled?
>Revelation 20:14
>Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Second death meaning all those brought back for judgement die again. And all those judged good by God shall have everlasting life. The fiery lake is still there. You're mistakenly interpereting "lake of fire" as meaning "ceasing to exist". Im telling you this is wrong because that is contradictory to other scripture where it is literally eternal fire.
>Matthew 3:12
>His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
>Matthew 25:46
>Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
>Revelation 14:11
>And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name
And why would God destroy hell before he even gets a chance to use it. The dead will not be resurrected to be judged until Christs second coming
>John 5:28-29
>Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned

Tl;dr lol no. Gods not letting you out fag

>>9271254
>I'm pretty sure atheism/denouncing God is the only other unforgivable sin
The only unforgivable sin is to believe that God can not forgive you.

>>9271277
They fucked up with hell desu, had they been a bit smarter they would have made Hell the philosophical hell of being without God.

This would have been logical and also would have made the religion look much more sane.

Eternal burning in hellfire is not philosophically consistent and it fucks up the entire religion.

>>9271263

I see what you're saying but if you're denouncing God wouldn't you thereby be rejecting the forgiveness that he's bestowing on you, since you're saying you don't want it? Not that as a mortal you'd have the divine power to do that, but symbolically speaking.

I remember learning (10+ years ago mind you) that God forgives all sins, but you still have to accept him, and thus the only true way to blaspheme is to reject his grace.

>>9271277
Exactly, all who are GOOD receive eternal life. The wicked perish forever. Everlasting destruction. They die again and for good! Lake of Fire and Hell again are different things. Hell does not last forever as it is destroyed in the lake of fire. Tl;dr piss off.

>>9271303
Way to ignore all the direct quotes and the point i made. I guess Jesus was lol jk about the whole thing

>>9271292
That's because what that anon says is incorrect. Hell is not forever. The second death is, because they are literally completely destroyed. They do not exist in any way at all. For hell to be eternal they would need to live eternally and they don't, the good receive eternal life, the other perish forever and therefore they call it an "eternal" punishment because they will not ever come back like those who ARE in hell do for the last judgment.

This is consistent with the fact that the Devil is also DESTROYED for good, gone forever. And you know where he goes? Into the lake of fire.

>>9271303
Jesus says eternal punishment
>but thats not true
>i know more than jesus
Bruh. I realize a lot of scripture is up for interpretation but come on. Eternal means eternal

>>9271300
Well I don't know where you learned that but it would make many things completely pointless. The main thing being the book of life which records those who will receive eternal life. All sins but one can be forgiven. That is not to say they are absolutely. It is for God to decide.

>>9271311
This entire argument is because you are choosing to believe lake of fire means cease to exist. Even tho that is in direct contradiction with the rest of the bible. Why

>>9271308
>>9271314
Here is what Jesus actually says


"Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

Get a grip.

>>9271311
So in your view of christianity the svil are not punished? They just stop existing?

>>9271318
Wrong. See this. >>9271324


You just misunderstand.

>>9271324
Again. Youre taking big leaps with your interpretation.

>>9271328
>implying there is anything worse than not existing

>>9271328
They are punished, just not forever. Hades (Hell) and all the dead in it are raised again and judged. Then Death and Hell, along with Satan at some point are thrown in to the lake of fire and completely destroyed/consumed.


Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”
Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell. Rev 20:14 is clear that they die– they don’t live forever in hell at all.

>>9271336
No. I am not. It is very clear. What is immortal? Not the body. The soul! What does Jesus warn against here? He who can destroy the soul. I.e. No longer exists. It is very clear.

>>9271338
But the dead arnt in hell

>>9271341
>irme no longer exists
There you go again

>>9271337
Existing in pain

>>9271344
Destroyed. Consumed. Perished. The Bible uses all these words they mean the same thing.

>>9271342
Rev 20:13 dude.

>>9271344
Jesus said it, not me.

Fear Him who can destroy both the body and soul.

You can't get any clearer than that.

>>9271338
Second death. As in those brought back for judgement are killed and sent to eternal punishment

>>9271350
That takes place after the return of christ on judgement day. The dead today are just that. Dead

>>9271356
Nope. Second death as in killed and the eternal punishment is eternal death obviously. Again, if you believe in eternal conscious hell you disagree with Jesus.
Which makes you wrong.

>>9271354
Who can. Not who will. Jesus also said punishment was eternal

>>9271360
The raising of the dead in all those places. One of which is hell.

>>9271363
Verse. And He will literally "The great day of His wrath has come. And who shall be able to stand." that and the rest of revelations.

>>9271361
>lol nope im right and the wicked are never punished
Ok cool fan theory i guess

>>9269731
Christianity makes life sound really shit and death quite appealing so otherwise it would only be a matter of time before the Christian population realize this and start committing mass-suicides.

>>9271364
How can one be sentenced to punishment before being judged

>>9271363
Lmao your rebuttal is b-but it only says he can not that he will! And then you follow up with BTW Jesus says punishment is forever which implies that God absolutely does punish the wicked refuting your retarded rebuttal. What a joke.

>>9271364
Because Hell isn't part of the last judgment. Like I have been saying. The book of life and the lake of fire is what takes place on the last judgment, as again. Hell is also thrown into the lake of fire.

>>9271368
Nope. Again Jesus said it not me. To believe in eternal conscious hell is to say Jesus is wrong. Pick a side. Or just quit with the damage control and realize you were wrong.

>>9271371
>>9271374

>>9271372
Yes. He punishes them forever

>>9271376
Jesus told me you're a massive fag.

>>9269731

>realize that all life is just suffering so you want to end it
>whoa hey man you can't do that the church needs you plus just think about Jesus he died for your sins bro and this is how you're gonna repay him? that would mondo uncool bro

>>9271376
Youre changing the meaning of words to make it fit your narrative. That should be a huge red flag

>>9271372
I pointed out multiple verses that say hell is eternal. Im sure there are more. Other than direct quotes from the bible that say exactly what in saying idk how to convince you. So you win i guess

>>9271386
What meaning did I change? I'll wait.

>>9271380
No, they receive a punishment that lasts forever, eternal death. NOT eternal life. Whosoever believeth on me shall not perish

If you look at the Greek meaning PER'ISH, v.i.L. pereo, supposed to be compounded of per and eo, to go; literally, to depart wholly.

To depart wholly. As in pass out of existence. To no longer be.

>>9271382
Well if it makes people not kill themselves then it is obviously good. Seeing how you have be quite mentally ill if you think not existing is something to strive for.

So if Christianity keeps people from suicide, atleast that is one thing Christianity has going for it.

>>9271396
And the Bible is much more complicated than that. Good thing scholars don't operate like you do.

Here is just a little info for you. http://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/how-long-does-hell-burn

>>9271408
You changed "lake of fire" to "cease to exist"
You changed "eternal punishment" to cease to exist"
Its a cool theory. But what im saying can be proven literally with direct quotation. Yours is a leap of logic based on your own interpretation. Which for some reason you see as infallible truth

>>9269731
because if you're dead GOD can't take advantage of your labor.

>>9271416
Again. Incorrect. In fact what you say has led to one of the biggest disagreements in history about doctrine and also the greatest criticism of the Lord Almighty.

It also leads to the Bible contradicting itself which it cannot do. And Jesus being wrong, which he cannot be.


Already gave you literally Greek definition of perish. You'd know that if you actually had real study time with scripture.

So not only do you think incorrect things. You are also giving false information to people which is very annoying.

>>9271426
Again youre devaring your assumptions as infallible truth. Whereas im simply quooting the word of our lord. Who is more likely to be right? You or God?

>>9271433
No. I am quoting the word of the Lord as it was written long ago, you are operating on flawed translations and no formal education on the matter.
And instead of listening and learning you argue because you are afraid of being wrong. Perhaps also afraid of being wrong for so long.

>>9269799
>just go out and be productive bro
Yikes, kill yourself

>>9271426
>Revelation 20:10King James Version (KJV)

>10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

If lake of fire means cease to exist please explain this verse

>>9271445
>formal education on the matter
Ahhhhh. Ok this explains a lot. Youve been cucked

>>9271454
Incorrect again. As the traditional teaching is that hell is forever. Which it isn't. You are the one who believes what the cucks do.

>>9271464
Please enlight us with your liberal arts degree
>>9271449

>>9271449
Here is something you to read.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/EternalPunishmentNotTrueToGreek.html

>>9271469
Please learn to read Greek.

>>9271485
http://biblehub.com/revelation/20-10.htm
So every single translation is wrong? This is your contention?

>>9271201
The biblical usage of Sheol and Hades simply means "the grave." Ie everlasting life

>>9269957
>if you're killing yourself more often then not its because you're weak not because you're strong
It takes strength to do both. There is no weakness in ignoring the greatest instinct known to man. What you posted is such a severe platitude, I doubt you have even thought about it.

>>9270032
Then our father can go fuck himself. What a petulant little shit he is.

>>9270689
>It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence
It's not like I decided to take part to begin with, is it

Eugenics. Committing suicide is one way of exiting a society. So to call it a sin discourages attrition - and encourages people to categorise suicides' behavioural patterns as showing 'a tendency to sin'. In theory, after enough time, it and its unproductive comorbidities might be bred out.

Simple selection.

From a religious point of view,it literly says that God only purpose,as it says in the Quran,is to worship him,therefore taking a life without a justifiable cause is a sin.But from a rational point of view,you can argue that it's within a human being right to decide weither he lives or die.however to me the issue is the person is capable of rational deduction when he is in that state?

>>9269933
It probably is Kanye. His taste in music is completely /mu/core, he references Nietzsche in his biggest song.

>>9269731
>what is the real reason for the rejection of matter being the ultimate transgression?

hmmmmmm

Who could be behind this idea?

>>9269834
>Doesn't want to go to hell
>You tell him to become a trap
Wew lad

>>9271292
>What is annihalitionism

>>9269858
>>9269863
>>9269814
>>9270363
>>9270615
>closing in on the idea of creation being absurd and irredeemable

>>9271871

We're getting there.

>>9269731
>lose your chance to advance/being redpilled
>historicists/Platonians lose another slave

>build a religion about the afterlife being better than life
>have to create a reason to keep people from hastening their death and be in the better afterlife

>>9272467
>>build a religion about the afterlife being better than life
Only if you're a good person.

>>9272486
...that's beside the point.

Hume covered this extensively. There is no valid reason.

>>9272467
>build an understanding of christianity this shitty
>argue about it online

>>9272448
>hinting at the demiurge brings the thread to a halt

>>9271016
thrown into an eternal pit of fire.......
>eternal pit
>eternal
I guess eternal doesn't mean forever anymore.....

>>9273840
Maybe try reading the entire discussion before busting out those reaction faces lad. >>9271201

>>9273840
Must have meant a 'pit of eternal fire'. Then again an 'eternal pit of fire' basically means a pit filled with fire that lasts forever, right? A pit filled with ever-lasting fire.

It's not your life to take.

>>9270363
>why didn't he test chad's faith? oh wait chad has everything he wants and more
read Job

>>9271871
hmmm

>>9269731
In pre-industrial societies, suicide was a massive waste of resources that could theoretically doom the entire tribe/village.

The more philosophical explanation is that it's the ultimate in terms of surrender. You've accepted that you will never be able to make your own life worth living and simply checked out, abdicating all personal responsibility. For that reason, the notion of heaven (ie a state where you have fixed all your internal problems and issues and feel totally correct and at peace) is literally impossible, because you never did the work of self-actualization required to arrive there.

>>9274223
t.

>>9269731
john donne wrote a work about this saying that many holy old testament figures comitted suicide

List one verse in the bible that explicitly bans suicide.

>>9274655
Jesus answered and said
unto the sinner, suicide is
painless. It brings on many
changes. I can take it or
leave it if I please. That
game of life is hard to play.

>>9270984
>>>/x/

>>9274697
-The gospel according to MASHew, chapter 40, verse 77.

>>9270984
It's not freewill when you know the consequences.

>>9270649
>hitler is god literally right now

>>9274208
>>9271871

I FUKKIN KNEW IT

REMOVE DEMIURGE

>>9270984
Free will which you have to use exactly as he commands? That's not free will.

>>9271032
>>>/b/

God hates quitters.

>>9270689
are you sure he was against it??????

>>9269731

Because God made everything enjoyable in life sinful. Guy has been a cunt since the beginning, he puts something nice in front of you and tells you not to have it.

Think about it.