/lit/ - Literature

>>8817432
I've read half of them and I'd say it is a good list, especially in the context of the problems we currently face.

>>8817432
Only read three of them (1984, Brave New World, Crime and Punishment), but i'd see why "every student should read them" ; they confort you (especially when you're a young studentfag), in a weird kind of way... But again, only read three of them. And from what i've heard of, Gulag Archipelago isn't any good (I either met rightyfags who went full "hurr durr muh gulag" or leftyfag calling it "imperialist propaganda")

>>8817432
not a good cross section, way too much repeat material.
like through some walt whitman or some other american literature in there somewhere

Kosinski, this traitorous fraud?

>>8817461
>(I either met rightyfags who went full "hurr durr muh gulag" or leftyfag calling it "imperialist propaganda")
>Taking the opinions of ideologues seriously

>>8817461

Well, according to him Gulag Archipelago "was instrumental in bringing down the Soviet Union" or something like that (paraphrasing).

>inb4 /leftypol/ hijacks this thread because it insults comrade Stalin

>>8817461

don't know about that work in particular but solzhenitzsyn's work in it entirety was low key banned from here and still is.

>>8817461
Solzhenitsyn is one of the msot important Russian writers of the 20th c., dumbass

>>8817462
The list is just for people interested in the philosophies he holds to be true. It's not for people who just want a grounding in the history of literature and/or philosophy.

>>8817668
Okay.
Sooo, is Gulag Archipelago any good ?

It's missing Augustine's Confessions.

no piaget either, that's weird. he namedrops him fairly often

anyways its a cool list

>>8817668
how much does the CIA pay you to shill this?

>>8817432
the only reason anyone should read carl fucking jung is as a cautionary tale or as a case study on a course on how to spot utter fucknuttery

pic unrelated

>>8817473
It had nothing to do with it.

>>8817698
It's semi-decent fiction and abominable if taken as non-fiction.

>Hurr durr, thought police, I'm so edgy and smart, kids don't read these fucking world famous and super obvious picks,

Are you serious?

>>8817432
I wish he didn't list Nietzsche because I don't want to see something good posted alongside liberal anti-communism.

You guys are desperate for idols. He's famous for refusing to call students by the pronouns they request. What a luminary.

As to his list: half of it is a good high school assigned reading the other half is what you might read in some basic psychology or English courses. Not much to comment on desu.

>>8817743
This. It's pretty pathetic.

>>8817743
>He's famous for refusing to call students by the pronouns they request.
As he should be. Fuck your pronouns.

>>8817751
Agreed, it doesn't even have like Finnegans Wake or A Thousand Plateaus. What a load of bollocks.

>>8817432
Why do people like this guy again? I get that he called out political correctness but that's low hanging fruit. He just sounds like an old-fashioned Cold War liberal and his reading list reflects this.

>>8817743
it's not his fault he lives in degenerate times. that's the whole point. there are no more fucking basic psychology or English courses because of the SJW cancer that is trying to ruin his life

>not much to comment on
ridiculous

>>8817766
He's got a lot of interesting lectures on youtube if you want to learn about Jung

https://www.youtube.com/user/JordanPetersonVideos/playlists

>>8817766
>>8817707

Sure it does,it isn't meant for a specified field actually,but rather for students in general,a easy to get in, accessible list more like.

He didn't mentioned Piaget for the same reason,also he once said that the english translations of piaget's were shit.

>>8817432
Wasn't there something by Tolstoy on the list?

>>8817758
Why do you care so much? It's a non issue.

>>8817771
>muh degeneracy
>there are no more fucking basic psychology or English courses because of the SJW cancer that is trying to ruin his life
Absolute nonsense. I was assigned or suggested half of these books in high school.

You people blow the whole trigger warning and gay shit out of proportion. I had a humanities professor that was a total faggot, not subdued about talking about taking it in the ass at all, and he assigned us readings from The Greeks (Plato and Aristotle) and Nietzsche. In my English classes we read modern American authors and Greek tragedians, we read The Illiad in the 6th grade and acted out parts in front of the class. I'm sorry you got a shitty education but your fear mongering, and that by most of the media, is unwarranted.

>>8817791
That was a different list: http://jordanbpeterson.com/2016/11/maps-of-meaning-intro/

>>8817795
>Why do you care so much? It's a non issue.
Not when people are forced to use them by law.

>>8817743
That's an extremely misleading reduction. Do you know WHY it is he refuses to participate in today's political correctness? The reason is plenty impressive and steeped deep in intellectual literary tradition. He is someone who genuinely bridges the works of Nietzsche and the modern landscape, that's worth exploring.

>>8817802
I can spot the Zizeks

>>8817796
Much better list desu

Can't do without my boy Tolstoy

>>8817758
hiya Milo

>>8817807
Georgist scum. Worse than communists, at least they push for revolution.

>>8817810
I actually hat ehim just as much as the SJWs

>>8817795
>>8817795
>Why do you care so much? It's a non issue.
Are you honestly retarded? The only reason Peterson took this stance was because of a law in Canada that would be very open to exploitation, it's breadth of interpretation was extremely wide that totally arbitrary enforcement for the sake of protecting people's feeling was a legitimate possibility. How is this a non issue? You would be a criminal or lose your job just for exercising free speech. And it isn't happening in a vacuum either, this is a system issue, it's a mentality that has utterly permeated the minds of 20 somethings and brutally exploits and maladjusts them.

I don’t think women were discriminated against, I think that’s an appalling argument. First of all, do you know how much money people lived on in 1885 in 2010 dollars? One dollar a day. The first thing we’ll establish is that life sucked for everyone. You didn’t live very long. If you were female you were pregnant almost all the time, and you were worn out and half dead by the time you were 45. Men worked under abysmal conditions that we can’t even imagine. When George Orwell wrote The Road to Wigan Pier, the coal miners he studied walked to work for two miles underground hunched over before they started their shift. Then they walked back. [Orwell] said he couldn’t walk 200 yards in one of those tunnels without cramping up so bad he couldn’t even stand up. Those guys were toothless by 25, and done by 45. Life before the 20th century for most people was brutal beyond comparison. The idea that women were an oppressed minority under those conditions is insane. People worked 16 hours a day hand to mouth. My grandmother was a farmer’s wife in Saskatchewan. She showed me a picture of the firewood she chopped before winter. They lived in a log cabin that was not quite as big as the first floor of this house. And the woodpile that she chopped was three times as long, and just as high. And that’s what she did in her spare time because she was also cooking for a threshing crew, taking care of her four kids, working on other people’s farms as a maid, and taking care of the animals. Then in the 20th century, people got rich enough that some women were able to work outside the home. That started in the 1920s, and really accelerated up through World War II because women were pulled into factories while the men went off to war. The men fought, and died, and that’s pretty much the history of humanity. And then in the 50s, when Betty Friedan started to whine about the plight of women, it’s like, the soldiers came home from the war, everyone started a family, the women pulled in from the factories because they wanted to have kids, and that’s when they got all oppressed.

>>8817795
>>8817795
>Why do you care so much? It's a non issue.
Are you honestly retarded? The only reason Peterson took this stance was because of a law in Canada that would be very open to abuse, its breadth of interpretation was so wide that totally arbitrary enforcement for the sake of protecting people's feeling was a legitimate possibility. How is this a non issue? You would be a criminal or lose your job just for exercising free speech. And it isn't happening in a vacuum either, this is a systemic issue, it's a mentality that has utterly permeated the minds of 20 somethings and brutally exploits and maladjusted them.

>>8817822
>You would be a criminal or lose your job just for exercising free speech.
You can already lose your job for exercising free speech.
>The only reason Peterson took this stance was because of a law in Canada that would be very open to exploitation
If this was passed in the USA the supreme court would strike it down as unconstitutional. I don't care about syrup-suckers.
>And it isn't happening in a vacuum either, this is a system issue, it's a mentality that has utterly permeated the minds of 20 somethings and brutally exploits and maladjusts them.
They're a very loud but small group of 20 somethings. I know a lot of them and this kind of shit is a non-issue to them.

When did you realise leftists have no reservations about denying large-scale atrocities when it suits them too? Probably hold to the same deluded maxim as /pol/, "this never happened, but it should in the future..."

>>8817432
>1. Brave New World – Aldous Huxley
>2. 1984 – George Orwell

>>8817839
Why can't they just admit that it happened, and be glad of it?

>>8817841
They're famous for a reason.

>>8817839
I don't care about the numbers. 120,000,000 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust. 400,000,000 people died in the Gulags. It matters less than the meaning of why people were killed.

>>8817795
>in my English classes we read modern American authors and Greek tragedians, we read The Illiad in the 6th grade and acted out parts in front of the class

just so we're clear: you think that because you ACTED OUT THE ILIAD in the SIXTH FUCKING GRADE that this counts as studying it?

>I'm sorry you got a shitty education

...and you think *I'm* the one who got a shitty education? Look at what you just posted, you absolute fucking mongoloid. Think.

>>8817854
Peterson says they were killed because of hatred and resentment of Being. Is this not true?

>>8817845
So is Duck Dynasty

>>8817834
>You can already lose your job for exercising free speech.
But not for something so arbitary. See the relevance?

>>8817834
>They're a very loud but small group of 20 somethings. I know a lot of them and this kind of shit is a non-issue to them.
How fucking anecdotal. Well guess what, I know people too. They are not a minority, they are the vast majority of people at my college (I live in NYC). These are the meek who will inherit the earth once the boomers finally die, and they are honestly giant children. This sort of protectionism is one of the many reasons they will forever be mentally stunted consumerist whores, and they are determined to drag everyone else down with them.

>>8817870
If people are still watching that in 50 years, maybe there will be something to say for it.

>>8817854
Why not read the Gulag Archipelago as a happy story then? Instead of sheeeit we dindu nuffin, stalin was a good boi. >>8817843

>>8817889
>stalin was a good boi.
Castro too if the news can be believed.

>>8817743

>He's famous for refusing to call students by the pronouns they request. What a luminary.

That's how he got our attention, but turns out this guy is an amazing orator.

>>8817839
The holohoax never happened, it was manufactured by the Allies after WW2. The so called atrocities of the Stalinist government was also vastly exaggerated by his predecessors in order to de-Stalinize the union. Both Stalin and Hitler were great leaders who accomplished inhuman feats with their respective nations.

>>8817867
>Peterson says they were killed because of hatred
I hear this a lot so it's probably true.
>and resentment of Being
I'm not a Mandarin so I'm not sure what that means.
>>8817889
I'm not happy these people died I'm pointing out that it's weird to focus so much on how many died, as if 1 million people being killed is okay vs. 6 million.

>>8817897
>well read Harvard professor
>capable orator
shocking

>>8817901
>I'm not a Mandarin so I'm not sure what that means.
It means you "just want to watch the world burn" a la the Joker from Batman.

>>8817909
That's what I thought but you capitalized being so I got confused. I guess that's part of it.

>>8817905

I said amazing, not capable.

He's going to appear on Steven Crowder next lol

MODS please delete this thread.

>>8817938
fuck of

>>8817822
>>8817829
What both you and Peterson fail to understand is that the adjustment was not to the law but to which grounds the law may be applied to.

The law in question (s318 of the Criminal Code of Canada) criminalizes hate propaganda. The law specifically states:

>Every one who advocates or promotes genocide is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.

The adjustment to this law was not to loosen the standards on which actions may qualify as incitements of hatred. The adjustment was in what may be defined as an "identifiable group".

Read R v Keegstra and you'll begin to understand what the law means by "incitement to hatred".

Promotion of hatred and incitement of hatred involves more than a professor having a hard time deciding which pronoun he should use to refer his many students.

His legal fears are unfounded and inflated to appeal to a large majority of people who oppose "politically correct culture". He self-stylizes as a rebel while really representing a knee-jerk majority position among most average Canadians.

Essentially: Jordan Peterson is asshurt about fuckall and perverting a misreading of Canadian law to promote his own ideological concerns, despite claiming to criticize the supposedly ideologically motivated changes to the definition of "identifiable group".

And, to make matters worse, he hasn't brought a single new argument to the table against political correctness.

He's a hack and a complete clown. His clout among you whiny /pol/ retards is the only reason UofT hasn't fired him yet.

>>8817947
>anyone and anything can be any identifiable group
>not grounds for exploitation
lol

ITT: triggered leftists and gender non-conformists

Peterson's many influences are important to examine because they encapsulate the brutality of our shared human experience. Ideologues need not apply.

>>8817961
>not realizing that the identifiable group isn't what matters
stay retarded i guess

>>8817966
Sorry for understanding the weight of legal precedent.

>>8817942
no you

>>8817432
This guy is lit as fuck. I enjoy his lectures and his commentary on books, particularly Nietzsche.

https://youtu.be/MCOw0eJ84d8

>>8817965
t. Thinks the holocaust is a Jewish hoax

>>8817965
>Peterson's many influences are important to examine because they encapsulate the brutality of our shared human experience.

"the brutality of our shared human experience" that's quite a lengthy fart my dear Nora.

>>8817973
You clearly don't if you've read R v Keegstra or any SCC precedent on hate speech and still hold that it's the identifiable group thing that matters in whether or not Peterson should use specified pronouns or not

>>8817965
>Peterson's many influences are important to examine because they encapsulate the brutality of our shared human experience. Ideologues need not apply.
This is exactly the sort of thing Peterson argues, you do realize?

>>8817947
Are you still mad that he destroyed you in that debate, Mayo Moran?
>>8817973
>That passive aggressiveness

>>8817990
I haven't seen the debate. If Moran mentioned the hate speech laws in specific, please tell me.

>>8817981
I said I was sorry, geez.

The links to books from his website are for the Canadian Amazon.com
How amusing!

>>8817947
>His clout among you whiny /pol/ retards is the only reason UofT hasn't fired him yet.
lol literally go kill yourself

>>8817432
>1 and 2
Why? Unless you're teaching a class on authoritarianism in literature there's no reason to have both

>>8817432
>fedora tipper the list

Ok, some classics up there, but what's missing is glaring. I mean, you've got Crime and Punishment and Demons, but not Brothers? And then you finish it with this Jung and A History of Fedora Ideas... Jup, we've someone here that likes to decide what's best for his audience.

>>8818016
set me a reliable precedent and I might

>>8818024
give me your address

>>8818016
The guy used to teach at Harvard. The ONLY reason UofT hasn't fired is because /pol/ likes him.

>>8818004
Watch it then.
https://youtu.be/68NHUV5me7Q

>>8818038
And he totally deserves to be fired over protesting the pronoun law

>>8817432
>Jordan Petersons
>Peterson published Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief in 1999. The book describes a comprehensive rational theory for how we construct meaning, represented by the mythical process of the exploratory hero, and also provides a way of interpreting religious and mythical models of reality presented in a way that fits in with modern scientific understanding of how the brain works.[16] It synthesizes ideas drawn from narratives in mythology, religion, literature and philosophy, as well as research from modern neuropsychology.

Ok, I guess I'll look into him.

>>8818041
slave

>>8817461
>nobel prize in lit
>no good

besides
> "no good"
you're not buying a toaster.

>>8818173
bob dylan

>>8818041

Why, because you disagree with him?
Do you advocate the use of against him?

>>8818189
That post was sarcastic.

>>8817432
that is the smile of a man free at last from pseudolintellectual bullshit

how many people in this thread can say that they have ever looked as fucking happy as that? i can't. i don't think i could even name three people who have

that is what a man looks like. that's why people get triggered about this

>>8818173
well first this >>8818181
and then this : >from what i've heard

Oh and
>you're not buying a toaster
Don't tell me want I can and can't buy
>inb4 you're not the boss of me now
>inb4 you're not so big

>>8817743
Yeah this if we're going to be honest.

>>8817802
>He is someone who genuinely bridges the works of Nietzsche and the modern landscape

>>8818278

A picture of an iranian politician is not a counter-argument.

>>8817802
>He is someone who genuinely bridges the works of Nietzsche and the modern landscape, that's worth exploring.

???

>>8818234
daily, but then again i abuse opiates

>>8818319

>opiates

The ultimate pseud-addiction.

>>8817743
>psychologist with 7298 citations is only famous for his pronoun refusal

>>8817432
this is the list of a white privilege having transphobic bigot. maybe he thinks things like "rationality" and "freedom" are the bees knees, but those things take a back seat when trans people are literally being killed by trump supporters every day, maybe if he would shut up, listen, and check his privilege, he would know that

>>8818334
Leftists are the greatest source of oppression in the civilized word today.

>>8818334
weak bait

>>8818308
It is ironic tho

>>8818341
underrated as fuck

>>8818330
It's the only reason he has mainstream popularity in any case. I still think it's pretty cool that the anti-SJW people finally have a pretty interesting intellectual on their side.

>>8818359
>anti-sjw
>intellectual

oxymoron

>>8818359
>It's the only reason he has mainstream popularity in any case
Not true, his lectures were great and he was known for them before the pronoun shenanigans even if he wasn't as well known as he is now.

>>8818342
"check your privilege" is 100% pure and unadulterated ressentiment my brethren

>>8818368
This is what SJWs actually believe.

>>8818359
Peterson is the only one willing to speak.

my bad
>>8818342

meant for
>>8818334

little itchy on the trigger

>>8818368
The word you're looking for is "redundant", an "oxymoron" would be an "intelligent SJW".

>>8818387
Seriously. Jordan Peterson has scientifically proven that SJWs are dumb, in fact.

>>8818416
The authoritarian ones, at least

>>8818416
>112 / 9 / 30 / 1
>muh echo chambers

>>8818421
The PC egalitarians aren't necessarily SJWs themselves, but they are frequently SJW apologists from what I understand

>>8818437

It's all the same shit, neomarxists the whole lot of em.

>>8817432
There are a lot of translations there

>>8817473
I read it, and I don't even get what he was talking about. If anything it just confirmed the idea that the Soviet Union was a dictatorship and not true communism, though I understand personally how one can lead to the other.

>>8818416
facts and science are a white male cishet colonial construct designed to oppress womxn and people of color

>>8818474
It's important to understand the distinction. The overweight blue-haired asexual who gets up in your face over pronouns isn't the same thing as the otherwise intelligent liberal who just feels sorry for them and thinks they should be given whatever they want. You might actually have a chance at convincing the latter that something is wrong here, while the former won't even be willing to listen.

>>8817766
I dunno. I like his defense of religion as true in a different sense that scientific truth. I forget what he called it. Culturally true, or something; in that, the stories speak to psychological truths, rather than literal truths.

But he is an old cold warrior. He's a little obsessive, and if not obsessive, then opportunistic. I'm not certain which.

>>8818356
if you're a retard and can't figure out clear bait

Are there any other good lecturers on youtube? I enjoyed Robert Sapolsky and Alan Moore (his interviews are like lectures).

I'm not looking for stuff about sjw's, I am looking for academic lectures.

p soon fashion criticism will be a hate crime

feels good boys. i'm looking forward to the serious wave of sensitivity retraining seminars

>that rich chocolatey neomarxist guilt
>those awkward silences
>them apology letters to triggered otherkin
>is it non-denominational holiday #4234 yet

>>8818484
>not true communism
True communism cannot exist in the material world because it is an unreachable ideal. Unlike the Christian metaphysical concept of heaven it's not something you want to strive towards because you'll inevitably end up with a dictatorship and gulags.
>>8818499
>forget what he called it.
He called religious truth is a meta-truth.

>>8818506
Gregory Sadler seems pretty popular here. He has a ton of videos on philosophy, including an enormous series analyzing Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit paragraph by paragraph.

https://www.youtube.com/user/gbisadler

>>8818508
>people actually think this
i get that you haven't ever actually gone to college but you this is still pretty embarrassing

>>8818510
>He called religious truth is a meta-truth.
I'm not sure how that "is" got there.
>>8818508
It's already a hate-crime to be white.

>>8818511
he talks a lot without saying anything meaningful. i like what he's trying to do, but he's just not a very good lecturer

>>8818515
not an argument

>>8818511
thank you, I'll check it out

>>8818524
you'd have to make one first, friend

>>8818510
I know it can't exist, and that in the absence of universal self-realization, the only solution is totalitarianism. (Although I was reading a book about Libertarianism that argued against central planning by comparing it to the 'impossibility' of automating cars.) I just didn't get how the book actually "proved" that.

>>8817721

>I don't understand it therefore it's bullshit

Classic form

>>8817432
I think it would lead to a lot of students with a misunderstanding of complex ideas

A better list would consist of simpler books, that all serve as a brief introduction to Modern Ideas.

Furthermore, it immerses students in Post Modern, apologist moral thought, which isn't bad, but its likely something they already grasp fairly well if they're studying at a modern uni. It also doesn't give the student a decent understanding of where any of these ideas come from, tries teaching them how to rebuild a car without taking it apart first, if that makes sense.

>>8817473
It was very important, yes. It crushed the idea that some magical communism existed there, that it used to exist during Lenin and that oppression and murder wasn't the natural state of communism.
Back at the time denying evils of communism was normal for armchair leftists. I mean it is now too, but not for the Soviet union.
>>8817698
It's honestly the most complete work I've ever read, touching upon dozens of subjects with a stunning amount of depth.
>>8817743
But he was well known before too.

>>8818510
>True communism cannot exist in the material world because it is an unreachable ideal.
This sentence is going straight in my cringe folder

>>8819572
Pretty mundane opinion to cringe at, IMO.

>>8817766
He's not only fighting Political Correctness but the passive and active nihilism of today. This appeals to a lot of lit.

>>8819594
This is a good point. He wants to bring authentic religion back into the world, and he's doing it in perhaps the most convincing way possible.

>>8819594
Yeah, this is what really drew me to him. Not only is he a good spokesfrog for the sane people left in the West but he also has this revivalist philosophy that gives me great hope in this era of materialism. It's both intellectual and spiritual.

>>8817947

Based Anon

>>8817947
>he hasn't brought a single new argument to the table against political correctness

holy shit anon he *is* the argument against political correctness. this is the whole point. dismissing him as a hack and a clown cheapens your argument. obviously he is no such thing, unless you feel Harvard is used to hiring hacks and clowns

>promotion of hatred and incitement of hatred involves more than a professor having a hard time deciding which pronoun he should use to refer his many students

you're right. it also involves shiteating cunts like smugglypuff

leftists truly are the most oppressive force in the world today. why not just leave the fucking guy alone? if students want to go to his classes let them. if they don't they don't

but this is exactly how the progs want it. they want to determine the horizons of language by making triggers and feels the foundation of truth. fuck em

the world is not made for millennial narcissism. and the university is making itself look like a fucking disgrace by kowtowing to them. it's all about $$$. it always fucking is

>>8821298
how can you write so much without saying anything
you truly have a talent

>>8821298
and i say Harvard not because i'm unaware of the fact that he's at U of T. i'm saying Harvard because it has higher standards

>>8821307
this means nothing. but it does confirm exactly the slavish tone of modern discourse that is the reason why we are where we are: arrogance. sheer fucking arrogance

open your mind fucktard. the door only opens from the inside

>>8821317
you make no argument
there's nothing in the post

>>8821307
>>8821325

>>8821341

>>8817432
>1. Brave New World – Aldous Huxley
red dit

>2. 1984 – George Orwell
red dit
>3. Road To Wigan Pier – George Orwell
why

>4. Crime And Punishment – Fyodor Dostoevsky
hmmmmm

>5. Demons – Fyodor Dostoevsky
nope

>6. Beyond Good And Evil – Friedrich Nietzsche
hmmmm

>7. Ordinary Men – Christopher Browning
dude ww2 lmao

>8. The Painted Bird – Jerzy Kosinski
dude ww2 lmao

>9. The Rape of Nanking – Iris Chang
dude ww2 lmao

>10. Gulag Archipelago (Vol. 1, Vol. 2, & Vol. 3) – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
dude cold war lmao

>11. Man’s Search for Meaning – Viktor Frankl
dude ww2 lmao

>12. Modern Man in Search of A Soul – Carl Jung
fucking psychoanalysis

>13. A History of Religious Ideas (Vol. 1, Vol. 2, Vol. 3) – Mircea Eliade
lmao

His list was surprisingly easy to trivialise with memes.

>>8821325
i don't have to make the argument, retard. peterson has already made it. you're just too shallow to understand it. which is why you keep insisting there is nothing there

and nothing between heaven and earth can persuade anyone who insists on being ignorant. so keep that head buried in the sand my man. it's a scary world out there

>>8817432
entry level pleb trash, filled with translations

>>8821390
nice meme my friend

>>8817432
His reading list is boring as hell. But about Peterson, I can say three things with confidence:
1. Peterson's website opens with the most self-aggrandizing blurb I have ever seen in my life. It's Trump-worthy, and it's not hard to judge his ego size from it, from "raised and toughened in the frigid wastelands of Northern Alberta" all the way to "one of three truly life-changing teachers." (http://jordanbpeterson.com/))
2. Despite being a fully-tenured U of T prof who made $161,636 in salary last year (and probably notably more as an author, lecturer, guest speaker, etc.), Peterson currently has a Patreon accepting $9,862 a month from 894 patrons to "creat[e] lectures about profound psychological ideas." Looking at the comments his Twitter, Youtube, and Facebook pages garner, I'm sure his patrons are a bumper crop of enlightened individuals and not at all the kind of assclowns who call strangers "feminazi c*nts" at rallies.
3. Nobody asked him. Nobody asked Peterson to use specific pronouns, or if he "recognized" genderless pronouns (he does: he uses the singular they in his lecture videos). Nobody at his job tried to make him do anything at all until he started this media circus and pretended he understood law, biology, and transgender identity better than the experts on those topics.
(Oh, bonus one: you can use most of his arguments about how "trans people can't tell ME what words to use!" to defend using racial slurs with almost no change of wording in his answers).
So, overall, the evidence really compels me to believe that Peterson is a Grade-A asshole with a massive ego and more intellect than compassion or ethics. That's just a working theory, of course.

>>8821603
>(Oh, bonus one: you can use most of his arguments about how "trans people can't tell ME what words to use!" to defend using racial slurs with almost no change of wording in his answers).
Wrong.
there's a big difference between deciding someone HAS to call someone a word and saying someone SHOULDN'T call someone a slur.

>>8821603
>So, overall, the evidence really compels me to believe that Peterson is a Grade-A asshole with a massive ego and more intellect than compassion or ethics.

NICE PROJECTION
I R
C O
E J
E
C
T
I
O
N

>>8817678

>>8817698
it's good if you like cia propaganda

>>8821372
you memed yourself fool

so much edge in that it's a wonder you managed to type that shitpost at all with your edward scissorhands

>>8821603

>>8819572

It's true though, you''d have to be pretty stupid to expect humans to create a classless, stateless society without capital that runs smoothly. How many times do we have to try out your pet ideology before we can safely say it does not work, and how many lives will it take this time?

>>8818372

that image is pretty on the nose, my dude.

>>8821672

>so much edge in that it's a wonder you managed to type that shitpost at all with your edward scissorhands

>>8817432
Sounds like a pinko moralist who thinks books should be concerned with Le Big Social Issues.

>>8821844
He's one of le anti pc warriors

>>8821844

Good. Because the last thing we need is another revolutionary.

>>8821603

>he makes so much money
>this is bad

Ok Bernie.
Why do liberals hate successful people?
Read the Patreon page. He's gonna pay people with that money to film his lectures.

>Nobody asked Peterson to use specific pronouns

Actually they asked everyone. Not using someone's dumbass pronouns means a fine in that part of Canada.
The professor didn't wanna use ze/xir/het because he's a meanie, but because it just opens the floodgates to another set of laws by these crybabies like yourself who actively seek the breakdown of this society for your pipedreams.

You're so fucking liberal I hope you die tonight.

>>8821879
And the edgiest post in the thread award goes to

>>8821603

>Peterson currently has a Patreon accepting $9,862 a month from 894 patrons

I'm sure if some chick on Twitch made that amount of money you wouldn't have an issue with it.

>>8821603
That disgusting Peterson, accepting money people willingly donate to him and giving them something in return!

>>8821879
>>8821903
>>8821908
Get a fucking life holy shit

>>8821879
>Not using someone's dumbass pronouns means a fine in that part of Canada
Horseshit. I live here.

>>8821909
triggered

>>8821913
This can't be serious

>>8821639
>thinks my deduction that Peterson has a big ego is "projection."
>The opening blurb to Peterson's website reads:

Raised and toughened in the frigid wastelands of Northern Alberta, Jordan Peterson has flown a hammer-head roll in a carbon-fiber stuntplane, piloted a mahogany racing sailboat around Alcatraz Island, explored an Arizona meteorite crater with a group of astronauts, built a Native American Long-House on the upper floor of his Toronto home,
and been inducted into the coastal Pacific Kwakwaka’wakw tribe.

He’s been a dishwasher, gas jockey, bartender, short-order cook, beekeeper, oil derrick bit re-tipper, plywood mill laborer and railway line worker. He’s taught mythology to lawyers, doctors and businessmen, consulted for the UN Secretary General’s High Level Panel on Sustainable Development, helped his clinical clients manage depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, anxiety, and schizophrenia, served as an advisor to senior partners of major Canadian law firms, identified thousands of promising entrepreneurs on six different continents, and lectured extensively in North America and Europe.

With his students and colleagues, Dr. Peterson has published more than a hundred scientific papers, transforming the modern understanding of personality, and revolutionized the psychology of religion with his now-classic book, Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief. As a Harvard professor, he was nominated for the prestigious Levinson Teaching Prize, and is regarded by his current University of Toronto students as one of three truly life-changing teachers.

He’s a Quora Most Viewed Writer in Values and Principles and Parenting and Education with 45,000 Twitter followers and 7000 Facebook likes. His YouTube channel’s 150 videos have 60,000 subscribers and 2,300,000 views, and his classroom lectures on mythology were turned into a popular 13-part TV series on TVO. Dr. Peterson’s online self-help program, The SelfAuthoring Suite, featured in O: The Oprah Magazine, CBC radio, and NPR’s national website, has helped tens of thousands of people resolve the problems of their past and radically improve their future.

>Reminder that this is a fucking Psych prof's website.

>>8821914
I can't even right now

>>8821921
Hooray for reddit humor from 2014

>>8821909

>>8821927
*sigh*

>>8821931
*le sigh*

>>8821909

>>8821919

You're too invested in attacking Peterson's character.
So what if he's a self-congratulating asshole?

Not.An.Argument.

>>8821630
>there's a big difference between deciding someone HAS to call someone a word and saying someone SHOULDN'T call someone a slur.

"I want to call you a whore."
"Please don't."
"Don't tell me what to do!"

Yeah, big difference.

>>8821928
>>8821937
>if I samefag I win

>>8821938
That is my argument. If you check, you'll see that is my main point, and I proved it. Try to use your brain.

>>8821919
or, you know, the website is promoting him so that people will be interested in reading/hearing what he has to say. it's expected to enter some author's website and have it try to convince you to read him.

and even if that's no the case and he does have an inflated ego indeed, the fact that this bothers you so much makes it seem like your own ego is threatened by his. so you are indeed projecting.

>>8821943
>I want to call you a whore
vs
>I don't want to be forced to call you xir

>>8821943
nigga are you being retarded on purpose?

>>8821950

Well it doesn't matter if he's an asshole.

What if he gave all that money to poor Somalian kids who will grow up to fuck your wife?
What if his profile was a self-description that amounted to "just a dude."
How are we supposed to think differently about his stance on those silly as fuck pronouns?
You're a liberal fuckface who thinks if you can prove a person is a "meanie", we'll FEEL differently and then reach different conclusions. Sorry but some people aren't led to different conclusions by their feelsies like your beta ass.

>>8821603
I am not in love with Peterson, but your post is very off point.

1) I agree that the blurb is mostly silly
2) If you listen to him, he seems very open to quitting his university job. He speaks passionately about how he loves the distribution that the internet provides for his lectures and seems willing to make a full time switch to crowdfunded content instead of using his university salary to subsidize them as a hobby. He seems very genuine in just wanting to get his message to as many people as possible---whether you think this is good or bad is irrelevant---and does not seem to care about the money.
3) There was a law proposed to fine people who used the "wrong" pronouns. He gave his opinion on why he thinks this law is bad. No idea how you are against the exchange of ideas.

He does seem to have an ego---who wouldn't or doesn't?---but if you think he's just a self-aggrandizing money-grabbing asshole, you haven't listened to him talk. He frequently addresses your exact point about intellect and compassion and how it shapes people's views. And he agrees with you. Turns out maybe you should give him a listen.

>>8821603
>(Oh, bonus one: you can use most of his arguments about how "trans people can't tell ME what words to use!" to defend using racial slurs with almost no change of wording in his answers).
So what, nigger?

>defending trannies
>defending a bunch of fags that all do sex work and fuck hundreds of people without protection

https://youtu.be/OE_-CiV353A?t=3143

>>8821994
>Steven crowder
Nigger what are you doing

>>8821997
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/807345789508972544

Don't you dare insult our spokesfrog you fucking postmodern shitheads

>>8822001
Who gives a shit

>>8821994
how can he do it? I would never be able to put up with those retards

>>8821994
Steven Crowder might be the least funny person on the planet

>Mircea Eliade

>>8822017

What's wrong with Eliade?

>>8821603

t. biology denier

>>8821949

Try again, sweetheart.

>>8821943

Oh, is not saying the pronouns the same as a slur now? Jesus.

>>8822024
Unsubstantied metaphysical assumptions that lead then to fallacious, and politically guided interpretations of historical cultures. An epistemological circularity.

It's funny how radical right wingers always go for the nutter when forming their ideologies, even if there are much more palatable alternatives, I guess what they offer is more "spiritual luxury".

>>8822054

>if it's not leftist politics, it's not ok

As opposed to fallacious claims of being a science that lead to impractical, and politically guided interpretations of world history. An epistemological circularity.

Your revolutionary romance is a spiritual luxury too, petit bourgeois fuck.

>>8822064
>posts le dubs man
>no dubs in sight

>>8822068
commies stole his dubs

>>8817432
Who the hell is Jordan Peterson? Why should I care about his opinion?

>>8822068
>>8822071

Check these then, faggot.

>>8822076
lol so close

>>8822077
you fuck

>>8822076

>>8822064
Strawmannig isn't going to help you.
Heidegger is one of my favourite philosophers and I couldn't care less he was a nazi, it's the political instrumentality of an intellectual endeavour that bothers me.

>>8822077

If dubs, Peterson will get killed by a raging gender bending dyke.

>>8822087
nice try

>>8822086

That wasn't a strawman.
More like a tu quoque. But nice try, pseud.

I have no clue what Eliade's politics are based on his works.

>it's the political instrumentality of an intellectual endeavour

Then you can throw out most of intellectual history, fgt.

>>8822087

>>8822094
nope, cause you implied something that isn't in my post, nothing about revoultions, nothing about "if it's not left it's not ok"

>>8822094
>Then you can throw out most of intellectual history, fgt.

If you really think like this than politics, no matter left or right, or whatever other denomination, can safely throw away any appeal to rationality and just become power contenst embellished by dialectics (a position that wouldn't put you that far off from Foucault ,ironically enough)

>>8819364
>5 cents has been deposited into your account

>>8822112

I didn't say any of that. I said shitloads of intellectuals and their works were heavily loaded by, if not religious, than most definitely political motives.
There's no escaping it.
You just love the hypocrisy of coating it nicely and unnoticeably.

That tells me something about your personality. But that's besides the point :).

>>8822006
Peterson is a 10/10.

>>8822112
>>8822119
>both posts use "than" when thehy mean "then"
pls stop samefag arguing with yourself

>>8817947
only good post in the thread

>>8822119
the point is what comes before, politics or reason, you seem to think that everything in the intellectual discourseis fair game as long as it's coming from my "side" whatever that is, and so of cour you're willing to defend it no matter what.

I don't see what that says about me but keep going, if you're that interested :)

>>8822125

Can you fucking stop complaining about samefaggotry when it's not there you paranoid stoner.

>>8822128
You mean the worst one?

this thread is the biggest clusterfuck i've ever seen on /lit/
congrats i guess

>>8822129

I didn't say any of that.
You take issue with Eliade's politics being too much in frontview.
I still don't know what Eliade's politics are.
Maybe your reading was coloured by some of your antifa tier heroes reviewing a book of his and calling him a nazi or some bullshit, but I didn't read anything about his views on anything political in his books on yoga or conceptions of time.

>>8822141

bunch of leftists derailing it on purpose

>>8822138
I completely agree that you should be fined for not using the right pronouns, if you know them.

This is on the grounds that it is a form of harassment.
There's literally nothing to discuss here. Every argument if not out right hateful is screaming about a slippery slope.

I don't care about a slippery slope and it would only be good if more people had their so called freedoms suppressed.

>>8822144

I called it. >>8817497

>>8822148
lmao fuck off tranny

>>8822144
more like a bunch of people who only know about him because of the pronoun shit yelling at each other while others are trying to discuss the book list and someone's calling him an egotistical prick and its all just retarded

>>8822148

[Futurama Fry face]

>>8821603

This is the most disingenuous characterization of this whole debacle and Jordan Peterson. Reading this made me feel actual disgust at how someone can be this dishonest and manipulative.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

>>8822144

Millennials can't debate.
They'll most likely all die in a self caused civil war since they're unable to have a discussion.

>>8822153
>>8822159
I'm not trans, but this is just the nature of political disagreement.

There is no reasoning only sides. Your side happens to be immoral but that's besides the point.

>>8822142
>You take issue with Eliade's politics being too much in frontview.

nope my issue is that some metaphyical assumptions are both at the beginning and at the end of his interpretation of religion, sustaining themselves circularly. Those metaphysical assumptions have then their own poltical (in the broader sense) results.

It's not that that I don't like his politics, it's that his politics seems to me, are informing the premises and conclusions of his work, and not the contrary as it shoud be.

Then again you can't seem to talk about anything without implying somehing about me, and since the battery is running out, this is my last post

>>8822148

>don't care about a slippery slope and it would only be good if more people had their so called freedoms suppressed.

You are worse than a Nazi you disgusting commie cunt.

>>8822167
you happen to be retarded but that's beside the point

>>8822153
Proof that your entire position is based on hate.

>>8822167

Why immoral?

>>8822144

oh well, at least they are bumping the thread

>>8822169

>it seems

Ok, good night pseud.

>>8821747
progressive social justice is the religion of pure self-disgust. it's not even christianity. there is at least forgiveness in christianity

nobody wants to be forgiven, because it's harder to forgive than it is to be a spirit of vengeance from behind a veil of irony and cynicism and comfortably snuggled into a mob of angry idiots

cynicism is for topcucks. it's why the plebs are afraid of peterson. b/c the truth hurts

>>8817432
Sounds pretty ordinary. I read them all while I attended a cc.

>>8822174
>taking a shitpost seriously
proof that leftists are constantly seeking victimhood

>>8822173
Present one reason as to why it's 'retarded'. (Note that its is also just pure hatred)
>>8822171
What do you actually think is going to happen? Can you imagine a world in which people actually don't want to make each other feel bad.
>>8822175
Because you're conjuring up fantasies of totalitarianism because you're being asked not to harass people. Something relatively trivial for you if you obey the law, harmful to others if you don't.

>>8822183
really makes u think...

>>8822188
>not getting obvious bait
proof that rightists are all autistic

>>8822193
I'm not baiting. I'm completely serious.

Interesting that you automatically believe things you don't like are jokes.

>>8822190

>Because you're conjuring up fantasies of totalitarianism because you're being asked not to harass people. Something relatively trivial for you if you obey the law, harmful to others if you don't.

Your faction is calling a dorito skinned billionaire with funny tweets the next Hitler.

>>8822199
>>8822148 and >>8822174
are obvious bait

this thread sums up the sorry state of /lit/

>>8822201
Trump is nothing like Hitler. It's the DNC media machine trying to squeeze out whatever millage they can get out of Trump in terms of views and ratings.

Anyone who could possibly think otherwise knows nothing about US government or Nazi Germany.

>>8822190

This is the problem of the left. You stretch meaningful words such as fascism, rape, harrassment, assault and what not to a point where it includes anything from actual forced sexual intercourse to a sexual comment and the incorect pronoun.
You're the ones not taking harrassment seriously enough when you want to put groping on the same level as not using "xir", you pretentious moral crusader.

>tfw you can become an internet celebrity just by saying "no, tranny, I REFUSE to call you what you asked."
lel, rightwing persecution complex on display here

>>8822206

>>8822220
Sorry you have autism

>>8822227
>ridicule

>>8822219

Most trannies wanna be called "she" or "he".
Makes total sense.

It's those mentally ill lardasses and gender bending dykes who ask for these Slaanesh tier pronouns.

>>8822227
not an argument

>>8822217
Ever wondered if there is a reason that words are different, perhaps rape and harassment don't mean the same thing?

I guess if one thing is bad other things can't be?

It all makes sense now, if rape is to be opposed we should at least be able to harass people!

I mean seriously, what do you even think these words mean.

>>8822236
I've met one person in my life who wanted to be called "they". They were kind of weird, but I just humored them. Why do people get so upset about this shit?

>>8822232
sorry you can't tell obvious bait from actual posts
>>8822241
cool

>>8822259
BTFO

>>8822262
whatever you say

>>8822249

I'm the one saying they're not the same thing, you fucking shithead.

>>8822257
it becomes a problem when people want to make it mandatory by law

>>8822265
>right wing reading comprehension on display here

>>8822269

Apparantly leftist one.
Read my post again, fuckhole. I'm saying the words NEED to be different to make a distinguishment between certain acts.
Groping someone isn't rape, but it sure as hell is assault.
We need to make a qualitative difference here.

If we're gonna call too much cleavage for video game characters "rape", then we indeed lose the meaning of the word and anything goes.
The actual rape becomes something as bad as the aforementioned, which is an insult towards actual rape victims.

Not calling some dyke "xir" or "ze" doesn't fall in any category.
It's not even insulting. It's just someone who needs some serious help or maybe sterilization.

>>8822191
don't know if you're memeing or not but w/evs, going to go on a screed anyways

b/c i believe this is true. the whole issue is about forgiveness. social justice furies were born in outrage and expect to pointlessly die in it also. for them the world is broken and they have two generations of deconstruction which they don't actually read to help them along. but all of this shit was done in the shadow of a departing religion and that is why nobody can forgive anyone for anything. because nobody wants to think christianity is harder than being an nth-generation marxoid nitwit with an axe to grind the patriarchy

it is difficult to forgive. this is why nobody wants to do it. because they would prefer to be on the right side of history instead where one can use the Light of Judgment

it is easy to punish. even the neetch called this shot: beware those in whom the urge to punish is strong. social justice is predicated on a priori guilt. nobody needs an actual stalin when everyone already carries a little mini-stalin inside them, and just like z says, the more you try to say you're not guilty, the guiltier you look. you don't have to be a marxist to know he's right about that

peterson is punishing no one

fwiw aeschylus figured this out twenty-five hundred years ago in the oresteia. it's right on point. orestes kills his mother because he's expected to. now he too is pursued. it takes athena herself intervening in the city to let him go and the furies are outraged. they aren't really very smart

the furies today are social justice ideologues. it's all anger and punishment and no forgiveness. they are holy beings and they do not listen to reason. they are the grand inquisitor without a church. i didn't need peterson to know this. i only know now that i was not wrong to think it

and in the end the furies lose. they howl and scream in anger. it's sad in a way. but this the deal

not that it matters to half the jabronies in this thread, who are too ayyylmao to read anyways. they make illiteracy look bad

rant over

>>8822300
tldr lol

>>8817947
There we go. Peterson only has traction because he's saying inaccurate alarmist shit about crap he knows nothing about, and appealing to the knee-jerk asshole bigotry. He's Trump with better education.

>>8822311

>inaccurate alarmist shit about crap he knows nothing about, and appealing to the knee-jerk asshole bigotry

Gender benders deserve no respect. Only a room made out of pillows.

>>8822291
Your entire argument consists of pretending I said something I didn't and claiming that referring to someone with the wrong pronouns isn't harassment.

It is harassment so there is nothing to discuss.

You argument about language is just that and I have no interest in it. Your basic premise with regards to this is that a single concept can't be expressed in terms of degrees, that one thing can't be more or less of something or that if they are qualitatively different and one has importance then the other can't. The former is obviously untrue and doesn't need any other consideration, and the latter is just a non-sequitur in the logical sense and is being inserted into the argument so you can scrounge around for a point to make.

>>8822291
>It's just someone who needs some serious help or maybe sterilization.

Instead of using the right pronouns you're considering sterilizing them. Yeah and then you try to pretend this isn't based in the fact that you hate them.

>>8822291
To be clear since I know you can't read cleavage in video games isn't rape.

Why do you feel the need to rely on strawmen?

>>8817827
>Women aren't oppressed!
>as proof, look at the shitty lives of my impoverished ancestors!
You're a wagecuck from birth to death. Your entire family is a wagecuck family.
The feminist struggle is indistinguishable from the class struggle. Your refusal to believe this is simply the ideology imposed by your capitalist overlords.

>>8822300
now this really has me thinking

thinking about things. for that i commend you sir

>>8822362
>The feminist struggle is indistinguishable from the class struggle.
I seriously hope this is a jokepost.

>>8817874
>It's another "these liberal kids are ruining the country and I'm the nuanced, astute, fairminded, well-read conservative anon to tell you" episode

>>8822369
Stay angered, wagie plebeian

>>8822347

We're obviously dealing with mentally ill people. We shouldn't cater to them. We shouldn't listen to their dumbass concerns about pronouns.

If they have sensible concerns such as shitty wages or maybe actual systematic discrimination against trans people, sure. But if they're gonna bitch about people not using their esoteric made-up word, fuck them, we seriously need to see if they're fit for society as a whole.

>>8822369
You would be first in the Gulag.

How I hate your kind so much.

>>8822381
So I'm arguing with a literal Nazi...

>>8822364

you want to know the crazy part? i'm not even a christian. i've just spent a lot of time thinking about this stuff because i started out marxoid myself. religion is the last thing i ever thought i'd hear myself endorse. but it is what it is

all of this SJW stuff - the alt-right backlash too - is the death rattle of postmodernity and the beginnings of something new. that's why people are getting scared by this: because it is legit terra incognita and people are absolutely fucking terrified to think that they are going through a paradigm shift and the old models no longer compute

we're all in this leaky boat together famalam. it's why good old fashioned christian virtue and tolerance is such a good look. the dams are starting to go and the water is coming in

if the neetch were here today he would be fucking scandalized by this shit. it's the worst of both worlds: people who have read him (in rare cases) and then turn his legacy on the stupidest of all possible targets: social fucking justice

what they want is to feel cozy about themselves inside, but they are gagging with self-loathing, and so they always need a target. this is why the constant refrain: racism, sexism, xenophobia, all this. sometimes they're right

with peterson they ain't

b/c peterson's not hating anyone. he's asking for what anyone would ask for: his right to free expression. the problem is that the air has gotten so goddamn thick with feelings that now they literally feel the need to prevent him in advance from saying anything that might trigger them later on

there is 114% no shot at at all that that will stop them. and this is why he is digging his boots in. he knows

it's all going to come crashing down my man
all this shit
it's all going to come crashing down so hard
and that sound you are hearing
is twelve thousand frightened wildebeests
starting to look for an exit
from the cathedral they built for themselves

this is how postmodernity dies. not with a bang but with a trigger

>>8822385
>Wanting what's best for the mentally ill means you're a nazi

No where near as good as lits top 15

>all of this SJW stuff - the alt-right backlash too - is the death rattle of postmodernity and the beginnings of something new. that's why people are getting scared by this: because it is legit terra incognita and people are absolutely fucking terrified to think that they are going through a paradigm shift and the old models no longer compute

I'm not so sure, the leftists are getting more brazen every year. This is not the end of Marxism, not by a long shot.

>>8822148

>I completely agree that you should be fined for not using the right pronouns, if you know them.
> if you know them.

This is probably bait, but this exactly why it should not be made into a law. How can you know if someone knew the pronouns or not? Or if they intended to ignore their preferred pronouns as a form of harassment?

Maintaining this law and judging those who violate it fairly is gonna be a clusterfuck. Fuck trannies anyway, they are 0,1% of the population anyway, don't they realize how uninmportant they are?

>>8822435 to >>8822409

>>8822435
marxism i have no issue with. i like marxist intellectuals. they have a platform and they write good history

this isn't about them. this is about faculties pretending that crucifying peterson is somehow about respect when it's only about $$$ and funding. that's all. progress is always on the side of capital and universities are no exception. even marxist superstar slavoj zizek would agree

heidegger saw this coming, the rise of the multiversity instead of the university. beyond a certain point staying in the culture wars makes less sense than getting a good STEM degree and moving to high ground while the thing sinks

but even that isn't as good a look as being a goddamn fearless ass-kicking human being who actually fights for what he believes in

it makes no difference to me now how this turns out. peterson has more balls in his pinky finger than i do and i'm not even ashamed to admit it. i'm just depressed that this shit is happening at all. and because i don't think i would be brave enough to do what peterson is doing. i would probably roll over and fucking take it like a cunt

because like any of this matters. there's a living shitpost in the white house. the national debt rises. there's terrorism and daily fucking murders in europe. you don't even have to be ideological about this or pick one side or the other. but compared to the shit we are going to be dealing with in the 21C i could give less than a quarter inch of pubic hair whose fucking feelings are getting hurt because they identify as a peanut butter and banana sandwich

this shit just does not matter

but because planet capitalism is what it is

not only can you not tell the difference

but you will be punished for attempting to do so publicly

going to be exciting times gents

>>8819572
It's literally true tho

>>8822474
and because i also think this shit is going to kill off continental philosophy for a generation. trump did some damage, but only the sjws can really finish the job with a self-inflicted headshot. maybe it had to happen tho

ah well

au revoir mes amis
et bon courage
n'oublie pas d'etudier les chinois

>>8822435
What do Marxists have to do with SJWs? Identity politics are blatantly neoliberal. If it actually had anything to do with Marxism it would be met with hostility by the corporate media. Hobsbawm spoke out against identity politics all the way back in the 80s.

somebody should write a 21C version of one of Plato's dialogues where the moment Parmenides shows up and begins talking about the One Socrates immediately gets so trigged about even a metaphysical One that he calls for the city guard and they stone Parmenides to death on the spot for breaking the laws of a city which is obviously famous for tolerance and inclusivity and free thought

>>8822495

I was with you up until the pretentious last paragraph.
Disappointing.

>>8822504
100% correct

>>8822509
sorry. i couldn't help myself. was it the french or the part about the death of contintental philosophy? come on, hyperbolically proclaiming the death of philosophy is a time-honored tradition. otherwise what's the point

anyways share your thoughts, i like to precisely calibrate my self-flagellation about these things. i'm being at least partly serious

>>8822504
>>8822512

They are neomarxists, or cultural marxists if you will. Since economic marxism failed the cultural marxists replaced struggle between the "haves" and the "have-nots" with the struggle between the oppressor and the oppressed.

>>8822436
This is why you have to use the non-gendered referent when talking about people who haven't told you.

>>8822506
SJW's are actually the modern equivalent of Socrates.

>>8822570
You literally, quite literally, - in an entirely literal sense - know nothing.

>>8822570

you're pulling so much shit out of your ass rn lol

>>8822570
The oppressor/victim thing goes way further back than Marx. Its initial roots are in the figure of Jesus Christ.

The secular West has always been obsessed with this noble victim idea, Marxism is just a variety of it.

'cultural marxism' doesn't make much sense as a term, Marxists are like elite Leftists, the smarter ones, the most educated, in higher social circles, etc. The identity politic stuff of today is distinctly more populist, you don't need to be smart, you just have to remember a few terms, and toe the line.

>>8822595

you have it utterly backwards

>>8822605
Well I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, what do you mean?

>>8822570
i agree. marxism and neoliberalism go curiously well together in ways that i think are actually incredibly dangerous. it's why you wind up with an institutionalized and completely domesticated system of critique. all globalization ever required for hegemony was the imprimatur of people who were supposed to be on the other side.

it's what baudrillard called 'the smile of collusion.' and baudrillard was no saint but he would have raised a high eyebrow indeed at social justice

>>8822587
i disagree. socrates was very charitable to his interlocutors, and would never, ever, ever, get triggered. badiou has made this point very clear: there is a difference between the philosopher and the sophist in this sense. the philosopher is not permitted to summon the guards and kill the sophist. when SJWs swarm peterson or - deep breath - fucking *smugglypuff* lies with a shiteating grin about the absence of violence at the rally, and then the same day commits it herself...

...i have a hard time seeing the parallel. they might like to *think* they are socrates, but the fact is the position is completely reversed: they are the sophists, but they have also taken over the position of the city. and *Peterson* is the socrates, but he's been exiled beyond the walls. it's not a perfect analogy but no way jose are the SJWs anything like socrates in this sense. they're barely even sophists. sophists actually engage in debate, and charitably enough to discuss things abstractly.

when was the last time you saw an SJW mob calmly and rationally discuss anything with J-Pete in a way that reminded you of Plato? even on televised debates these idiots are cutting him off or smirking at him. Peterson only gets a receptive audience and a little common courtesy when he visits Rogan Island or whatever

it's why i am seriously starting to like christian virtue. nobody knows who's right or wrong anymore and debate doesn't fucking prove anything. look at chomsky/foucault or anything. debate doesn't mean anything anymore. what i think is an interesting look is allowing the other person to speak. it shows you're confident enough in your position to be able to discuss stuff without blowing your stack

i miss the hitch

>>8822509
and whither this anon? if you're going to call somebody pretentious you should, as Gunnery Sergeant Hartman says, have the common courtesy to give him a reach-around

>>8822583

Yeah, no. I'm not gonna call people "they" just because they MIGHT prefer to be called something else. I'm gonna change my whole way of speaking just to appease 0,1% of the population? And if I don't you're legally allowed to take my money away? Fuck you.

>>8822624
>i agree. marxism and neoliberalism go curiously well together in ways that i think are actually incredibly dangerous

You think you can say this and expect me to read anything else you write?

Anyway your bullshit about who is or who isn't Socrates doesn't work because Socrates was one man and thus the analysis of his mannerisms are meaningless in deciding who better represents the figure of Socrates and the position he took in the dialogues.

Needless to say Socrates was undoing reaction and facing off against not only common sense but the views of the old order. Wildly hated and vilified but constantly vindicated as time passed. He was literally killed for the equivalent of degeneracy ffs.

To be honest, you're a fucking pleb and it's embarrassing to see you name dropping Baudrillard when you can barely understand Platonic dialogue.

>>8822637
Childish and pathetic and there are a million and one signs for identifying a trans person.

>>8822587
the real issue here is primitivism. too much emphasis on muh feels has basically eroded people's capacity to think about the ineffable with anything like a detached and critical view

i want to blame somebody for this but it's about five uninterrupted centuries of protestantism/romanticism/marxism/deconstruction/whatever and it has more or less reduced university students into slobbering masses of unhinged libido combined with a sense of entitlement that would put Louis XIV to shame

we have become degenerative and primitive and everyone wants to pass the buck and blame someone else. now it's peterson's turn and he is digging in his heels because he is 100% right to do so. the feelings of the genderfluid are not his problem and they are trying to force that on him

that's why i'm not even saying this with a trump hat on. people do have a right to be addressed in the manner they wish. people *also* have a right to refuse to use their pronouns. and it *can't* be one way or the other, or worst of all, one way with what are effectively professional sanctions and media crucifixion. the university should stay out of this and let the man teach his class using the language that he wants to use. if the students don't like it, they don't have to take the class. and if nobody is taking his classes the university can get rid of him. simple as that

>>8822479
>literally true tho
As true as it might be, some ( >>8821743) seemed to have missed the fact that I was pointing out the more-than-perfect teenage-highschoolish style of this sentence rather than the opinion it expressed

>>8822644
I don't expect you to do anything. I wasn't aware that I was even responding to you. What's got you so mad?
>your bullshit about who is or who isn't Socrates doesn't work because Socrates was one man and thus the analysis of his mannerisms are meaningless in deciding who better represents the figure of Socrates and the position he took in the dialogues

Come on. Even you have to admit that's a pretty crazy sentence. And I didn't even raise that comparison in the first place!

>Socrates was undoing reaction and facing off against not only common sense but the views of the old order. Wildly hated and vilified but constantly vindicated as time passed. He was literally killed for the equivalent of degeneracy ff

I agree. But this is the point that I am raising: Peterson, not the mob that surrounds him, is the one facing off against what *seems* like common sense: social justice.

I indicated pretty clearly that the analogy was complicated, but I see no reason why it should be dismissed out of hand. Again, though, I don't understand why you're getting so fired up about this. I'm not the one who started the comparison. Even if I do think my reworking of it is sound enough.

>you're a fucking pleb and it's embarrassing to see you name dropping Baudrillard when you can barely understand Platonic dialogue

Why would you feel embarrassed? For the sake of philosophy? Even Baudrillard himself didn't want to call himself a philosopher. He thought of himself as a sociologist, and moreover he was considered to be the scourge of the profession...

I honestly don't know what you're mad about. Not even saying that in a douchey way or bait you. Dead serious. I just don't know why you're upset.

Hang on.
>>8822714,
are you
>>8822509?

If that's the case, then asking you to give me a figurative reach-around might shed some light on this.

If not, disregard. But if so, then that would make more sense.

>>8822723
aah, i fucked that up. w/evs. nvm. goddamn stupid techno-gadgetry

>>8822595
>Its initial roots are in the figure of Jesus Christ.
Christ made the supreme sacrifice for all of mankind, that's not directly related to the secular fetishisation of victims. Although many of the ideas of progressives are corrupted aspects of Christianity. The egalitarian ideal for example is a materialistic dumbed down version of everyone's equality before God's judgement.

>>8822737
I agree with this 100%. And also I think this perfectly explains why there is such a rage and vitriol among the SJWs: because it's all projected bad faith and guilt which is anything but understood by them.

And this is *also* why I would claim that it is ressentiment that drives the social justice narrative: it is all existential torment dressed up as social concern, and looking for a scapegoat. When one is found, such as Peterson, who does not *consent* to be a scapegoat, all hell breaks loose. They are offended, as Barthes would have said, both in their morality and in their logic.

And this is why only a single option remains for them: violence.

>>8822588
>>8822591

You only say that because you don't like me pointing out the role of marxism in the snowflake culture at north-american campuses because you are marxists yourself.

I really hate you people. You're so far up your moral crusader ass and your dumbass situation-specific sense for nuance I wanna fucking see Russia just turn this country into glass.
It's this smugness more than the insights I hate about you all. It's so apparant in each comment. I can smell your big ears, curly hair, noodle armed, lumberjack shirt through it.
Universities should have such insane tuition fees hardly anyone is able to go anymore. This isn't good for society to have more then 10% of the population thinking they're seriously in a position to feel better than established academics.

>>8822743
Why can't you accept that you don't know what you're talking about. Actually read Marx just once so you can put away these completely unrelated opinions.

>>8822770
>Yes my positions are informed by reason. I'm not just a hateful little shit!

>>8822770
That's an awful lot of words to be saying absolutely nothing of consequence.

Here, maybe this majestic looking cat will make you feel better, friend.

>>8822811

See, "it doesn't represent marx so you can't call it marxism, i should know because i'm a marxist."

It's NEOmarxism, it's an offshoot.

Peterson has one valid point about the need to be cautious when it comes to policing speech and ideas.

Otherwise he's made a stand over a complete misunderstanding of the law and the weight of precedent. In this regard, he is a complete fool. But goddamnit I can stand behind a man's right to be a politically incorrect, ignorant, offensive jerk.

>>8822743
Snowflake culture as we know it is a direct consequence of capitalism. Marketers promote individualism because it's easier to sell to consumers in an individualistic societies. Companies attempt to atomize everyone and then convince them that they're expressing themselves by buying the products they prefer. Marxists, preferring universal rights, typically oppose the forms of positive discrimination and reparations SJWs advocate for.

>>8822610

the identity politics you're complaining about straddles the whole class spectrum as an ideology, but it is produced by the hegemonic elite class. it's content however was derived from academics importing french theory in the 70s and 80s in pursuit of tenure; postcolonial studies, a la Edward Said, formed the first wave. the problem is the anti-Marxist strain that blinded these critics to their own complicity with the budding neoliberalism of reagan and thatcher, which renewed for a new generation of proletariat the hope of astounding individual success, while at the same time endowing capitalists with a discourse that would allow them to think of expanding both their work force and their markets overseas in the name of global multiculturalism. it is the Marxists who have endured the brunt of the abuse from both sides of this pincer-trap, argued as reductionist from their own alleged allies within the academy, and disavowed as broken theory by the hoipolloi without it following the break up of the USSR. put bluntly identity politicians are not marxists, and have a vested interest, both theoretically and shall we say commercially, in railing against marxism whenever they can. nonetheless the cynic in me makes the unconscious sympathy of the /pol/ ideology with the whole narrative identity politics has constructed for itself deliciously hilarious.

>>8822743
>>8822832

see >>8823161

you haven't the foggiest idea what you're on about. go to the library.

>>8822649

A teacher of mine was called out on a public forum for using 'gendered language'. This person identified themselves as 'non-binary but super femme presenting'. The expectation being, apparently, that everyone should just assume that this person was 'nonbinary', even though their 'gender expression' was overtly feminine. This person demanded that the teacher should 'just quit already'. The teacher issued a public apology.

>332 posts
>65 IPs
Can you identity politics retards fuck off? Sorry that you have no personality so you have to make yourself your political ideology, but do it somewhere else.

>>8822743
>the role of marxism in the snowflake culture
Dude what

>>8817461
If you didn't get any understanding of how totalitarian systems work by reading 1984 and you can't draw parallels between that and what is going on in Canada today then you didn't really get that much out of the book.

>>8824145
Okay.

>>8821298
The point is that most of you terrified twits literally have no experience with the setting at hand. I teach in two Ontario universities (and have for a decade), and have never been given a hard time about any student's pronoun preferences or anything else. These situations are absurdly rare, and issuing a pre-emptive statement about how you won't call someone "he" if you think they don't have a dick is inflammatory bullshit, regardless of Peterson's qualifications. Nobody is expecting him to say "zir," and referring to students in third-person without using their name is not something you ever need to do in a lecture anyway. In the rare case I am referencing a specific student to the rest of the class, I can easily avoid saying any pronouns at all. It's utterly a non-issue. Real "snowflakes" are rare in universities, and usually just drop your course if you offend them. I don't give trigger warnings, and I teach challenged and banned books and a variety of disturbing material. It's really not a problem (and I don't even have the security of tenure that allows Peterson to act like an asshole without risking his income).

>>8822770
"Big ears"? Do university students have larger-than-normal ears?