/lit/ - Literature

>>7009139
>people still don't know about Mistborn being three trilogies
Modern mistborn main character is a Nicrosil Misting and the story involves an Allomancer SWAT team chasing down a serial killer Mistborn.

Future Mistborn will have FTL travel and will be a space opera.

>>7009525
>Women authors

I only ever read Robin Hobb and Le Guin. Might try the Pern books by Anne McCaffrey sometime.

I also hear good things about Lauren Beukes and Connie Willis.

>>7009737
That's just the suggested thread theme. I'm looking for tales of planets of just women/females for one reason or another. Know of any stories with that?

>>7009729
Well mistborn was shit: the shittest fantasy series I've ever read. So who cares.

>>7009737
>Le Guin
Her Earthsea books are great. Apart from number 4 where it seems like she's angry at herself for writing the first 3 for some reason. At least she sort of snaps out of it in her later works.

>no questions

Fuck you OP

Octavia e butler

Any recommendations for Fantasy and Sci-fi with excellent prose?

>>7009951
Gene Wolfe is a favourite of mine.

>>7009793
Anon that's Name of the Wind

>>7009951
Wolfe and Tolkien respectively.

>>7009951
Lord Dunsany
Fritz Leiber
Robert Crowley
Wolfe
>>7010018
>excellent prose
>Tolkien
lolwut

This is a literature board. Take your manchild fantasy thread back to reddit.

>>7010031
Yes, Tolkien has excellent prose. Silmarillion and CoH are excellent revivals of myth language, as close to the sourse as one can get in the 20th century.

>>7009525
Shit OP.

>>7009951
Daniel Fox's Moshui books
Thunderer by Felix Gilman

>>7010053
I wish I had as good taste as you master.

>>7010053
>I only read patrician literature!
>Fucking plebs and their fantasy!

>I only play super hard PC masterrace games!
>Fucking casuals and their shitty consoles!

There's the two most similar groups of people I know, /lit/ and /v/ elitists. Most importantly what they have in common is that they don't realize that being elitist about books or games isn't cool and make them look smarter and better than other people, but that normal people just laugh at the likes of them.

>>7010088
>>7010109
>replying

>>7009883
–> >>7009752

>>7010310
>no questions to spark conversation
not even the usual what are you reading atm
>only "question" is a lame selfish /r/ for recs
shiggydiggydoo

>>7010310
>>7010414
Oh and you didn't even include the charts. How hard can it be to make a decent OP?

>>7010414
My suggestion was a theme of women authors, as you can plainly see.

Compare the previous thread.
>Fictional languages are cool edition.
>Recommendations:
>Fantasy
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/4chanlit/images/a/a8/1307836551252.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110612005642
>Sci-Fi
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/4chanlit/images/a/a6/Scifilit.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100710233344
Not one question. Did you complain about that then too? Just get the next one.

>>7010428
>Not one question. Did you complain about that then too?
No because someone else did and there was an explicit request for questions in the next OP a few posts before the link to the new thread you could have taken into account.

>>7010428
Previous thread was also shit. Two shits don't make a right.

>>7010460
Depends on the hemisphere you're in

>>7010446
There was no link to the previous thread.
You have your question. No go.

>get so fucking bored during Snow Crash's stupid adam and eve religion history muh virus babble that I skip ahead a bit only to find Hiro getting cucked in some laughably unrealistic and ridiculous scene thats complete bullshit

this is so fucking stupid. Shes fucking fifteen. FIFTEEN. And she gets fucking dripping wet just by him looking at her. Some old, weird looking freak with no neck thats described as the tallest giganigga ever. Then he proceeds to show his intentions to rape her and instead of acting in any sort of realistic way she does not protest IN ANY MANNER WHATSOEVER, not a word, not a physical action, not even a fucking sigh. The character who's defining trait was spouting off lip to anyone and everyone. And then of course 10/10 best orgasm of my life just by being penetrated one single time

this was like reading some shitty fanfiction hentai manga by some 40 year old jap permavirgin jesus christ

>>7009525

>Women authors

Let's see

Lois McMaster Bujold - I loved her Vorkosigan series when I was younger. I recently picked up Cryoburn however and I thought it wasn't as good as the early works. Also some of the novels in the series leaned too much towards romance for me.

The Snow Queen by Joan D. Vinge was pretty good, but I couldn't get into the sequels.

I'm considering picking up Ancillary Justice by Ann Leckie, is it worth it?

>>7011398
Uhh... He's the one who supposedly had the orgasm, because he passed out.

She later remembered she had an anti-rape device in her vagina that knocked him the fuck out.

The book is also a weird kind of comedy.

>>7009951
Mervyn Peake, highly visual.
>
Wolfe doesn't care if he's being dry or purply and I just can't help but love him and think of Borges for some very stupid reason. Delany is of a similar style but it doesn't affect me as much as Wolfe.
>
First volume of Hyperion is very very neat, except for when he switches to some of the povs, but still very precise and imaginative. Later volumes are crap though.
>
Kobo Abe wrote a fantasy or sf book, The Ark Sakura and his translations is decent.

Avoid Bradbury, I don't think I've read a worse prose trying to be flowery at all the wrong places. It just comes off as thin.

>>7009793
Seems you do, so you tell me.

Thanks for bumping the thread.

I'm looking for books with themes similar to Childhood's End, any recommendations?

>>7009525

Jane Carver of Waar, maybe. It's a gender reversal and affectionate parody of John Carter and it's quite a fun pulp read about a buff biker chick rampaging around raising hell in space.

>>7011499
>Later volumes are crap though.

Maybe if you read it for the prose alone, if you read it for the plot, later volumes are where it's at.

>>7012044
>if you read it for the plot, later volumes are where it's at.
I would've read it for the plot if the characters of the first volumes hadn't been so badly written and so stereotypical of modern fantasy tropes (which are pretty much the same tropes since Tolkien aesthetics or the infinite choices in pulp classics), and also if the voice of its narrative felt remotely interesting.

Some guy in the previous thread greentexted that it was crap written for RPG fans, and it comes off that way due to how artificial the character traits are configured, like he was ticking off clichés on a list to shape his characters and whenever a cliché would have been to obvious, well... let's switch PoVs, rip on the cliché being a cliché (e.g., Rothfuss' meta) or make it as otherwordly as possible.

How many fucking times will I have to read the story of the guy who lost everything, who might get to the brink of death, who is about to die but mysteriously transforms into the Savior / chosen one (or at least that's what's hinted with the bridge guy). How many times will I have to read about these Gary Stu's attributes?

Some of these tropes I'll probably find until the end of my days, because in all truth, all stories have already been told. At least I'll try not to pick those penned by Sanderson or anything that you can read once and find 300 dozen copies with all their subtle meaningless variations.

I only come to these generals to try to find the most acceptable of this for-entertainment genre fictions anyway. Yours is a good comment for people that are not as demanding, at least I can understand why some guy crazy in love with World of Warcraft would find it a decent read.

>>7012044
What fucking plot? He left several loose ends hanging and important plot points completely and wholly unexplained like he got bored of writing the fucking series midway and decided to half-ass it. Simmons is a goddamn lazy author.

>>7009752
Nicola Griffith - Ammonite
Joanna Russ - The Female Man
Joan Slonczewski - A Door into Ocean

>>7013048
Agreed, the Endymion books had plotholes you could drive a truck through and the most predictable plot

Also,
>Ironstance
>Full shardbearer

Anyone into Moorcock here? I've only read the Elric books, but I super enjoyed them. Is his sci-fi work worth reading?

>>7010428
>that artwork
Building Harlequin's Moon?

>>7011398
>not liking Snow Crash
>"giganigga"

So you're retarded.

>>7013048
>Sanderson fanboy thinks hes allowed an opinion on anything

>>7011919
HAH, Thanks, sounds ridiculously campy.

>>7013197
Thank you thank you. A Door Into Ocean sounds interesting.

>>7013591
Harlequin's Moon?

>>7011499
I'm new to fantasy myself but have been interested in reading Peake and Wolfe. What else can you tell me about the two of them?

>>7013359
They're just examples and demonstrations, yo.

Endymion was so fucking underwhelming.

>>7013901
>Endymion was so fucking underwhelming
Not enough animu swords and le witty quips eh?

>>7011398
Neal Stephenson likes to slip some fanservice into his books. He knows who his audience is.

>>7013561
I loved 'Dancers at the end of time', but I do think that is mainly because it panders towards my flight of fancy/live as you wish sentiments.

On reflection, it might be quite cringe-worthy, maybe I should give it another go.

Sure this is a common question, but is it worth reading Lord if the Rings if I've seen the films?

Someone tell me about Gormenghast and The Book of the New Sun?

>>7014766
Tell you what? Just read them.

BotNS is top notch, I haven't read Gormenghast but it's been on my list for years.

>>7014833
Ok. Well I just mean I've never really gotten into fantasy probably because of some dumb prejudice but also because I read Mistborn and just thought all fantasy was some extension of YA as a result. Are these two series good examples of places to start if my interest in lit is less oriented toward genre fiction

>>7014884
Read them or don't. I got places to be.

Oh also what's up with gene's Christianity how does that impact the books

>>7014912
You're obviously very interested in those books, so why can't you just read them? You can always quit after the first book if you don't like it. So
>Oh also what's up with gene's Christianity how does that impact the books
read and find out fucker

>>7014929
Nah. I have too many other books to read. Thanks anyway.

>>7014766
>>7014912
You should probably look up interviews or read the first chapter of each to see if you feel like continuing it. Both books are pretty dense and are not easily summed up in a paragraph. It's just a little awkward to come and ask someone to sell you on a book you can just sample right away.

how do you fags come up with names for your ebin fantasy characters

>>7014999
It just works tbh, I dont think about it.

More often than not the name meanings actually make sense too in correspondence to the character's role. Guess I just have a bitchin name radar.

>>7015011
lucky bastard tbh

>>7015031
I guess a start can be just to go with your gut, get all the fancy thematic stuff in later.

>>7014999
>take the name of a wrestler
>switch first and last names
>"fantasy" them up
For example, Holane Halc or Sav Rand.

>>7010018
>>7010072

>Uses Tolkien and Wolfe as example for prose

>doesn't mention the demigod of dialouge, Jack Vance

SAVING THIS THREAD

>the detectives tale

WHY WOULD YOU FOLLOW UP SUCH A GOOD STORY WITH SOMETHING THIS BORING

>>7015175
How is Vance? I haven't read any of his works but I've heard he's one of the pioneers of sci-fantasy and this interests me as I've become more and more interested in hard sci-fi, plus a /lit/ friend that doesn't read fant/sci-fi recommended his Dying Earth series to me. I should get around to reading them sometime. Tell me about his books, anon.

So are there any Star Wars books that stand up on their own as being solid pieces of Sci-Fi literature, or do they all need to use the Star Wars name as a crutch?

>>7016594
Not that guy, but Vance is really good.
When I read his Dying Earth I noticed how I couldn't help but picture scenes from those old feel-good adventure movies you can sometimes watch at TCM. like old super productions of Robin Hood or even The Princess Bride (without the frame story ofc). His prose is kind of weird, very flowery and intricate, even purple-y, and I guess it's just the common style of pulp's golden era, a useful device to set the tone for his stories (picaresque and weirdly medieval). His dialogues are very witty, his characters very often are goodhearted rogues (for the most part).
It's a very fun exuberant read that requires much use of your imagination.

>>7017520
I AM CHUN THE UNAVOIDABLE

>>7017544
Stop it, that's very very spooky.

Does the guy he was following ever come back in the series? I can't remember if I ever read about him again (Liam The Traveller? Laney? I don't really remember his name).

>I write high culture. What the puppy kickers write is lowbrow crap that pretends to be high culture. They would not recognize a Homeric metaphor or a Shakespearean allusion if it bit them on their barbermongerish cullions. (I am insulting their foppish testacles, for those of you who do not recognize Shakespearean allusions).

>These are halfwits pretending to be wits.

>To pretend that their joyless, godless, brainless pro-perversion hatemongering lecturing, hectoring and fingerwagging is somehow more civilized or refined than the edifying and educational tales written by and for persons of a civilized background and refined tastes is an absurd and unconvincing conceit, if not a neurosis. We have actually read the foundational books of the SF genre that these Morlocks despise.

>>7017563
Lliane the Wayfarer

>>7009525

There are a few women authors from France, but I don't think they've been published in English. I can think of Justine niogret in fantasy (chien du heaume), and Catherine dufour in sf (le gout de l'immortalite). There are probably others, but I haven't read them.

Is anyone watching the Hugos livestream? It started not long ago, they've not got far yet.
http://www.ustream.tv/hugo-awards

>>7016594
He's cool, has an odd kinda whimsical writing style that is hilarious when you get used to it.

>>7017579
Man the sad puppies shit was retarded on both ends.

Who gives a fuck about the Hugos anymore? They're a nerdy popularity contest. For fucks sake Sanderson has won one.

Man, what happened? It's all fun and feints and then the 'terrible glove' is a marvel tier mutation and Paul turns out being used by the heretics, not the other way

Okay. One of my friends keeps talking about some new star wars book coming out soon by Wendig, but isn't Wendig that really shitty writer who used to write WoD books?

I also saw interviews about how Wendig is going to be using Donut steel characters for his story.

>>7010072
>Yes, Tolkien has excellent prose.
No, he doesn't
Read Michael Moorcocks essay Epic Pooh

>>7017579
He really believes his own shit huh

>>7018966
>>7018966
To be fair, everyone in the Hugo's who won or were nominated were really shit. The Hugo's have been complete garbage for a long time. Ellison and multiple others saw this coming. Even Stephan King called the Hugo's out for being shit and a circlejerk. Wright is mediocre, but at least his work is readable.

The only thing remotely decent was Gaurdians of the Galaxy.

>>7018016
The one redeeming aspect of the whole Sad Puppies affair is that they forced the Hugos to publicly admit that they are nothing more than a popularity contest for "the proper kind" of writer, proper meaning liberal progressive.

They literally chose to give out no award rather than give one to someone that they felt had the "wrong" kind of politics.

The irony of it all is that Heinlein would have surely made their blacklist. Bradbury too. Probably Asimov and Clarke too.

>>7009951
Fritz Leiber and Based Clark Ashton Smith

>>7018992
Better yet, they chose to give out no award 6 times. They doubled that count in one night.

>>7019031
The best part is that they are tripping over themselves to gloat about it on social media.

"We sure show those Puppy Bigots what's what!"

They are literally oblivious. When the Puppies slate first came out, Correira and others said pretty much described exactly how this was going to play out. There was nothing improper about the slate, in fact the In Clique has even utilized slates in the past. But the Puppies speculated that the Hugos would choose no award over any writer nominated by "filthy white, male conservatives", regardless of the fact that a lot of the nominees weren't conservatives, white, or male.

How can you claim it as a victory when you did exactly what your opposition said you would do?

>>7018992

Hell, Hugo Gernsback, a straight, white, male of German ancestry?

He would literally have no chance of winning a Hugo award today.

since this is the fantasy general, recently finished prince of thorns, what is /lit/'s opinion of it?

>>7011499
>Wolfe doesn't care if he's being dry or purply and I just can't help but love him and think of Borges

Wolfe is a big Borges fan.

>>7014721
Yes. Different pacing, more background, parts of the story omitted from the films, and generally excellent prose.

>>7017756
before i had been against the sad puppies, and still am because the whole thing seemed childish. but its been kind of sad watching this play out over twitter. lots of social media high fiving that comes across as obnoxious.

the existence of online bookselling, self-promotion, and niche community websites like 4chan in some ways spell the doom for journalists and magazine editors, and they are desperately trying to stay relevant through meme moments like last night. the award shows have no choice but to embrace liberal politics. its their last hope, technology has nearly made them irrelevant.

>>7019168
Read it based on some comments on /lit/ and couldn't get past the 1st volume. Even the OP of that time wasn't particularly enthoosed by the series so maybe it was my fault for reading only because someone mentioned the raping of a girl in the first 15 pages.

It's so edgy it's not even funny. I guess that it's a good portrait of an adolescent kid partly expressed by his mannerisms (if you substract some of the cruelty), psychologically at least, but it's so artlessly dossaged that all he does is come off as a cunt and fantasy fullfilling material for 18yo misanthropes and antisocials. The condescension in his voice was contradicted by the fact that Lawrence simply cannot write a good metaphor or simile (blades cutting as softly as kisses, ffs)

The world building feels very meh, the post apocalyptic reveal and the hidden powers at hand main(?)plot an unoriginal disappointment (MORE deus ex machina? Why, thank you). The campy feel you get from the events close to its ending felt slightly out of place (with those ridiculous X-Men).

The witty forced dialogue presented when the MC was in society was as cringe-worthy as The Name of the Wind with its Kvothe-Denna exchanges. I can't take that shit anymore unless it's written by someone whose idea of wit doesn't come from Jane Austen adaptations or Victorian fanfiction. The humor was very dry and did nothing for me, even though I sensed Lawrence was trying carefully to sound acidic. Maybe Lawrence is not my type.

By far it's the most YA-tier piece of fantasy that /lit/ has ever suggested to me. Fortunately it's short so you can very quickly decide if the series is for you or not.

>>7019330
Why do you think mass media companies are pushing for deanonymized and prepackaged internet?

Can't have the filthy masses discussing things without guidance.

>>7019175
Yeah, but he doesn't mention him as often when asked for his fave writers. He's a major influence on Wolfe themes and motifs (the mirrors, the constant metaphysical ambivalence, etc.), obviously, but I'm basing my comment on something about the tone in Tbotns and his language use.

>>7019331
Out of curiosity, what is "YA-tier"?

>>7019385
Yucky Adolescent

So, speaking of Hugos, did anyone actually read The Three Body Problem?

I've always enjoyed Mercedes Lackey's "Heralds of Valdemar" series. Can be campy at times, but it's fun. It's nice to read something that isn't 100% grimdark edge the whole time.

>>7019385
"Young Adult."

>>7019551
>>7019589
Pretty sure bro was asking about what makes something qualify for "YA-tier"

>>7018946
If I recall the main character of Aftermath is Wedge Antilles.

Speaking of Star Wars, do any Star Wars books have good prose?

Are there any scifi rewards left that aren't a sjw circlejerk?

>>7019168

I enjoyed it, even though it's not particularly good and I agree with a lot of the criticisms of the series. For all the shit ASOIAF gets, when bad things happen there, they actually fit the War of the Roses style setting and how people are characterised and what they're trying to achieve, but PoT is full of really hamfisted edginess (that fucking dog was such a clumsy OTT way of establishing what a bad dude the narrator's dad is). And no, it's not nearly as funny as it thinks it is, but somehow, I still found it to be a real guilty pleasure overall.

>>7013909
Not enough Ouster fighting and ocean planet bathrooms.

>>7018963
>read Sour Grapes: The Essay
No, he does, Moorcock is a hack that's only famous for being contrarian. Tolkein sings, Moorcock mumbles.

>abandoning the supreme god of Aryan fantasy for the moor cock

>>7019632
You know, being as shallow and predictable as Diana Wynne Jones or Bruce Coville. Also being fun to read.

>>7019576
I read it. Amazing Lovecraftian atmosphere in the first half abandoned in favor of becoming the X-Files in the second, prose wasn't great but we give the benefit of the doubt to translations. I liked it and I'll read the sequels.

And I mean a great atmosphere. We start with a teenage girl getting shot in the Cultural Revolution and then we're slowly introduced to real truth being as changeable as it was to the CCP in the 60s. Creeping existential dread. It'll probably end up as HFY though.

>>7019331
>as cringe-worthy as The Name of the Wind with its Kvothe-Denna exchanges
To be fair its pretty hard to have a good conversation when almost every sentence Kvothe says to her has to be 7 words long exactly to play off the question he was asked when he was a kid.

>>7019047
>Dress-wearing fanfiction author Scalzi and his clique of progressives keep out anyone who doesn't think what they deem acceptable. Lit promoted is garbage unique only because it regurgitates SJW dogma.
>Puppies prove beyond shadow of doubt the clique is real and a shallow popularity contest. People mindlessly voted no award rather than read or allow anyone not approved by the groupthink to win. Puppy nominations also not that great.

It's hilarious and sad that demanding a work be recognized for it's own merit gets you called a racist/sexist by first worlder shits.

>>7019826

Thanks! Added it to my "to read" list

>>7019860
So this very contrarian and precocious self-taught MC, on a whim somehow decides to follow the meaningless game proposed by some Professor Dick Head? A game which in turn completely screws up his loquacity, which is his very essence (because he's a natural born charlatan who's used 1700 pages to describe the events of two days)?

Unless the ending and the connection with the number 7 ends up being absolutely mind-blowing -and considering vol. 2 of the series, it's not very likely to happen- that's one of the worse gimmicks I've read.


>B-but he was a teenager and word plays are very meta
Go fuck yourself, Rothfuss.

>>7011456
>Uhh... He's the one who supposedly had the orgasm, because he passed out.

She does too

>She does something she’s never done before: comes as soon as he goes into her. It’s like a bolt of lightning shoots out from the middle, down the backs of her tensed legs, up her spine, into her nipples, she sucks in air until her whole ribcage is poking out through the skin and then screams it all out. She just rips one.

>>7014256
It was just such a bizarre scene. I mean I'm sort of used to it since I've fapped quite a bit to hentai manga in the past but I was never expecting to find this type of shit in popular/mainstream literature.

Who is this fanbase? Because its really not the type of thing Id see normals liking

>>7018977
>The only thing remotely decent was Gaurdians of the Galaxy.

Which is also a terrible winner since Edge of Tomorrow and Interstellar both blow it the fuck out in terms of quality

>>7019331
Sounds like you can't understand lyrical prose, nor can you stand protags that act in ways incomprehensible to you.

That's fine, its not for everyone. Based on your comment I think someone like Sanderson would be a lot better for you. Also make sure to stay away stuff like Clockwork Orange

>>7020146
But Rothfuss and Sanderson have virtually identical fanbases.

>>7020160
They're both fucking cancer to the Fantasy scene.

>>7020184
>muh scene
>muh genre culture
Everything's been cancer to the fantasy scene since sword and sorcery disappeared.

>>7019047
>How can you claim it as a victory when you did exactly what your opposition said you would do?

Well they were huge hypocrites no better than the "SJWs".

This is the problem with the conservative reaction to "SJWs". They end up mustering up the same cliquish pettiness they lay on the door of their opponents. This is because they're more or less the same as SJWs. They hate liberals, but support the same structures that produce those liberals.

>>7020146
>Sounds like you can't understand lyrical prose

>All of my whats?
No, no, no. I do enjoy lyrical prose. I can perfectly stand some extreme examples like Kosztolányi, most of the Latin Hispanic bloomers, guys like Jack Vance or LeGuin. What I definitely can't stand is bad lyrical prose, like Bradbury. Or cheap metaphors. All in all, he's kind of hit-and-miss. Like a hit:
>They fed me chicken in soup, and my strength crept back, a stranger to me.
and a couple misses
>Her eyes stood as windows to a world of things made whole.
>“Hate will keep you alive where love fails”
What was he? 12yo? 13?

>nor can you stand protags that act in ways incomprehensible to you
That is not the case either. His motives are pretty drawn out. It's his first person account to begin with, so anyone with a basic yet proper grasp of literature(*) can naturalize his emotions and share with his thoughts or not, it doesn't matter. I'm interested in how characters are constructed, how their development is richly woven to his inner voice. And what I mentioned about his teenage ways also extends to the tone he sets. It's cynical and solemn, occasionally poetic (going for the bittersweet). What usually alerts me is this 'fullness' of character who never betrays himself and always go beyond and over (>inb4 muh unreliable narrator), kind of written for that exercise alone.

>Also make sure to stay away stuff like Clockwork Orange
Huh... see:
(*) I wasn't even specifying exit-core stuff which is full of protagonists that act opposite to the norm. And which contain a lot of my favorite authors as well. If I can relate to a character, if he's likable or not, doesn't play a role in my views.

>I think someone like Sanderson would be a lot better for you.
I'm actually one of those guys dissing Sanderson for the shallow maturity of his late series.

>>7019773
>And no, it's not nearly as funny as it thinks it is, but somehow, I still found it to be a real guilty pleasure overall.
This guy summarized my view in few words.

It's just that there's no point in following the plot of every minor book in my guilty pleasures list.

>>7019047
>How can you claim it as a victory when you did exactly what your opposition said you would do?

I'm going to announce to the world that I'm going to shit in a hotel room, and when people get mad at me, I will laugh, for it was my goal along.

>>7020282
Since you are terrible at this, I'll provide one that actually matches what happened with sad puppies.

SP: That party you throw every year is cliquish and exclusive.
Hugo: No it isn't. You're a bigot and a misogynist racist!
SP: I'm Hispanic, she's a woman and he's married to a black woman...
Hugo: LALALALALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!
SP: Well this year we'll sneak some people we like into your party and I bet you shut it down rather than let us stay.
Hugo: That'll never happen...what, it did? SHUT IT DOWN! PARTY'S OVER!
SP: Yeah, that's what we thought.
Hugo: We won, you racists. Now we need to upgrade our security so you can't sneak into our totally inclusive party next year.

I'm a super-casual fan who doesn't really follow the scene. Do I have this right?
- The Hugos were giving awards to mid-grade literary fiction with a couple of supernatural elements because it had important political messages, even though it didn't really work as science fiction per se
- The Puppies responded to this by stuffing the ballots for their friends who wrote shitty milSF that ordinarily could never win an award for anything
- In the end No Award won a bunch of categories, which is fitting because there isn't any award-worthy science fiction being written at all
- Both sides claim victory in smug twitter circlejerks

>>7020268
So you choose to read only part one in what's clearly written and intended as a 3 part series..and then talk about how the construction and development of the character is important to you. I suppose I'll just never understand people like you

The laziest advice given is "just keep reading" as if the person is guaranteed to fall in love with it eventually and disliking it is not a possibility. So Im not saying "go read the others before you make judgements". I simply don't understand why someone would go into a series like this that is so obviously (even just going be the titles) about character progression and read it as if its a standalone. I mean you have to know that your complaints about the reading (how edgy it is, how unbelievable his actions are for a kid etc) are largely not present in the later books. "King" Jorg is vastly different from kid Jorg, and "Emperor" Jorg is completely different from both. Not to mention the further development that makes kid Jorg easier to understand in retrospect. So the fact that you knew that and still made that post and swore off the series just sort of leads to a "what the fuck were you expecting" situation

The rest is kinda just a bunch of babble (you seem like one of those people who talks a lot but says very little, no offense. My brother is like that despite being the smartest person I know) so I don't know what to reply to it. You make a post talking about how awful and unfunny the whole thing is then call it a guilty pleasure. You realize "guilty pleasure" inherently means you enjoyed something right?

>Couldnt get past the 1st volume
>Its not funny
>The humor did nothing for me
>Lawrence is not my type

Doesn't sound like there's enjoyment there

>>7020389
This.

Even though the puppies weren't all that good, the material being circlejerked by Scalzi's clique is worse. The media's parroting the tired old "white male boogeyman hates diversity" now.

What are the best batshit insane fantasy settings? One of the reasons I've avoided ASOIAF is because it seems to basically be middle earth again, based on the commercials for the TV show.

>>7020765

I like the malazan

>>7020453
Yeah, pretty much, although Wright's a lightweight Wolfe. He's got a lot of potential but his new editor doesn't seem to be letting it out.

>>7020765
Actually, Wright. His Golden Age trilogy was this insane Victorian libertarian transhuman mess and I enjoyed every minute of it. His new series isn't as focused but it's still plenty crazy.

>>7020765
>because it seems to basically be middle earth again
Totally incorrect.

>>7020476
First off, you've already made quite a few wild and wrong assumptions about me which suggests that maybe you were kinda upset that I disagreed with your view of this book. Maybe you think the series is better than average or quite the achievement, and I just disagreed, and in doing so, I simply described what this book did for me and what it failed to do and clarified your comments.

The original question, btw, was "What did you think of Prince of Thorns" and did not ask about the whole series.

>So the fact that you knew that and still made that post and swore off the series just sort of leads to a "what the fuck were you expecting" situation
Well, I was certainly NOT expecting the turns of the plot I highlighted below, nor the rest of paper-thin cast, nor its ineffective humor.

>couldn't get past the secret "shadow" triumvirate manipulating puny humans and the lol nuke mythical bombs
>hit and miss prose
>the humor did nothing for me
>Lawrence is not my type
ftfy
Why would I keep reading 600-1000 pages of text which I don't like how it's written and don't particularly enjoy? The obvious reason would be to answer the question that arises from any unfinished book or series that's read purely for entertainment: how does the plot continue and what happens to the characters, which is what you suggested, lol.

But I'm not going to do that because I wasn't interested enough in the first book.

>Doesn't sound like there's enjoyment there
Maybe you shouldn't focus only on the negative points of my comment. I enjoyed some bits of the book but overall it wasn't for me, and I admitted that. And please don't think you know what pleasure fully means (refer to Notes from Underground's 1st paragraph for more details.)

Finished Hyperion

What a good book! Cant wait to read Fall of Hyperion :3

>>7009525
>Women authors/themes edition.
"women" isn't an adjective, OP. the word you're looking for is "female"

>>7020765
VORRH
O
R
R
H

>>7018977
>GotG
>decent
Confirmed for not reading the comics which were bastardized through the movie format.

>>7019787
Imagine if the Ousters were explored more than
>Hyperion: OUSTERS BAD
>Fall of Hyperion: OUSTERS BAD
>Endymion: OUSTERS BAD
>Rise of Endymion: OUSTERS GOOD
Gosh, imagine what Hyperion COULD HAVE been. ;_;

>>7022337
>Sandersom fanboy STILL thinks hes entitled to an opinion

>>7021534
I don't care about your views of the quality of the book, I'm not here to white knight the series. The utterly confusing part was always why you would pick up ANY series like this knowing you would drop it at what's basically the beginning. Trilogies, especially ones based on coming of age and heavy character progression are not something you just half ass. You go all in or you dont go at all. The books arent standalones, theyre not meant to be read and judged one by one. You think you gave it a "fair shot" - well I tried it and didn't like it - but preemptively judging the rest of the series that is extremely different from the first is anything but fair. Youre doing such a disservice to the authors and yourself with this mindset

I felt the exact same way you did after The Magicians. For the most part I didn't like the characters in the slightest. The humor didn't work even when it was clearly parody "Oh look at me poking fun at Narnia/HP I'm so clever", I wasn't impressed by the plot or the writing. But I made a commitment to the series when I decided to read it and so I stuck with it. It got better with each installment, my enjoyment of the previous books went up with reading the others and I look back on it now as one of the better series to come out recently. The idea of quitting after one part in a connected trilogy, esp in series where the first part is agreed to be the weakest, just makes no sense. Its like watching the first 10 minutes of a movie, saying "this is boring" and turning it off. Why even bother if youre not gonna research it a tiny bit in the first place

>Maybe you shouldn't focus only on the negative points of my comment

There are only negative points. How are you even this delusional to write "overall it wasn't for me" and a couple lines before how you dont like how its written and dont enjoy it and somehow still try to cling to its a guilty pleasure. I mean jesus christ man just admit you were wrong to use the phrase and move on

Recently read Blindsight, Eon, Rendevouz with Rama and Wind Up Girl.

I want to read something like Blindsight. Feels I want:
Spooky
Isolation
Intricate detail
Exploration

Things I don't like:
Explicit descriptions of fantastic aliens
Humans and aliens living or working together
Highly social or politically charged topics (need a break after wind up girl)

Any recommendations, sciencefic bros?

>>7022337
>Hyperion: OUSTERS BAD
>Fall of Hyperion: OUSTERS BAD

I thought the two books made it pretty clear that the Ousters were the good guys.

>>7022180
Just pretend the Endymion series doesn't exist. It ruins everything.

>>7022704

Blindsight was great. Consciousness being a barrier to true intelligence is a scary thought. Have you thought about reading the sequel: Echopraxia?

>>7022701
Except the first Magicians book was by far the best one.

>>7022926
I think it was more prominent in the last book but then again, it has been around six years since I've read them. I guess the Ousters were persecuted so much since they could naturally live outside of Hegemony habitats so of course that meant they were THE ENEMY.

>>7015175
Probably because I haven't read Vance yet and I don't namedrop authors I'm not familiar with.
>>7018963
And he is an authority on anyone since when? Tolkien has prose that perfectly does what it sought to do, emulate old myths and the bible. It's bad if you think those have bad prose. And if you think that you are bloody retarded.

are the expanse books any good?

>>7018016
>Who gives a fuck about the Hugos anymore?

Literally the only person I know who gives two shits about the Hugo Awards and WorldCon is a 65 year old who bemoans the fact that Science Fiction conventions have become Pop-culture focused events all about TV and movies.

He misses the days of literary Sci-fi cons and comic cons that were actually about comic books.

He comes across as a cranky old geezer shouting at the damn kids to get off his lawn...

It's kinda sad really.

>>7022701
>The utterly confusing part was always why you would pick up ANY series like this knowing you would drop it at what's basically the beginning. Trilogies, especially ones based on coming of age and heavy character progression are not something you just half ass. You go all in or you dont go at all.
Can you please stop this line of reasoning? It's dumb. There were certain factors, most of which I already mentioned, that made me drop it. In my experience they are red flags and you don't seem to agree with the opinion that they are serious matters.
You keep repeating that it's all about character progression. Can you please stop that as well? Pretty much everything I've been mentioning are concerns with all the OTHER aspects of what constitutes a novel. Aspects you keep ignoring.

You also keep ignoring that the question was about Prince of thorns.
Guy asked about 1st novel, I replied why I didnt like the 1st novel.
If you wanted to comment that the later novels of the BROKEN EMPIRE SERIES get better, or somehow, miraculously, enrich the experiences of the mediocre first novel, ok, whatever dude.

>B-but muh character progression
I even said that it wasn't that I couldn't relate to him. I don't care if he turns edgier or wiser. Can you get that inside your thick skull?

And also, who the fuck is Mark Lawrence? What the hell is he going to leave me with after I finish a 1000 page long coming of age story of a 16yo in fantasyland? I'm twice that age and have read pretty much every influential bilgundsroman.

>I mean jesus christ man just admit you were wrong to use the phrase and move on
Ok, whatever. Your autism is slightly showing, and I don't mean that just to offend or hurt you.

Btw,
>>7019168
>>7020146
>>7022701
>>7020476
>[Interviewer:]
>Where do you see your series going in the future?
>[Mark Lawrence:]
>Prince of Thorns can be read as a stand-alone book. There are open questions at the end of it, and I hope people will want to read more about Jorg, but I don’t think anyone will feel they’ve been left hanging.(...)
>>src: a 2011 interview you can still google, I'd post the link but 4chan thinks its spam.

It seems like the first book can indeed be considered for inspection as a stand-alone book, a fact said by its fucking author.

BTFO?

>>7025479
Autism

In the bookstore I saw an incredibly ridiculous looking book, Dinosaur Lords. I looked up some reviews on goodreads; I heard shit characters and hard to follow story. Anyone here read it enough to agree or disagree with that?

anyone read Through Struggle, the Stars?

I am about half way through and absolutely love it

>>7025856
Yeah apparently its a shitty book that basically relies on the LE KNIGHTS ON DINOSAURS XD premise

Are there any books that have to do with the sun? Like either sun worshippers or scientific stuff with solar activity

Could be suns in another solar system too, I remember a book about a planet where it was constantly day except for a stretch that occurs every few hundred years and the people on the planet went insane or something

That was cool

>>7027364
You're talking of "Nightfall" by Asimov.

The only one I can name off the top of my head would be David Brin's "Sundiver".

Can I get away by skipping this?
I just can't give a flying fuck about this entire Edur arc.

>>7009525
Did anyone mention C. L. Moore? She was a very young contemporary of Lovecraft and Burroughs and far ahead of them with female characters. Her Jirel of Joiry series is a female Conan type world, Her Northwest Smith stores are also great pulp sci fi. She was a big influence on Vance and the genre as a whole -- until she married.

>>7027364
I'd love if there was something similar only with Saturn instead.

Hey finished Dune 2days ago , Starting Pandora's Star today .. Should I go back and read Dune 2 or move to Illium by Simmons. Is Dune 2 decent ? I hear people say the Sequels aren't as good.

>>7028376
there's a guide about dune that goes on something like
"do you like paul? read dune messiah
do you like paul's kids? read up to children
do you like the golden path? god emperor
like frank herbert? read until chapterhouse
hate herbert and want to shame him, read everything his son did"

>>7028413
>28413▶
>>>7028376 (You)
>there's a guide about dune that goes on something like
>"do you like paul? read dune messiah
>do you like paul's kids? read up to children
>do you like the golden path? god emperor
>like frank herbert? read until chapterhouse
>hate herbert and want to shame him, read everything his son did"

Thought Paul's kid died in book 1 , guessing he has more.. I kind of like the idea of galaxy Jihad is that what you mean by the Golden Path ?

>>7028421
the jihad is part of the golden path, which paul goes on about post original, it all comes around

>>7017579
Read a blog post by him recently and honestly half a page into it I thought I was reading an 'enlightened' troll copypasta post from /v/ or something.

The only thing interesting I gleaned from it is that Vox Day is actually a monster created by some no name jackass editor and Scalzi. Apparently Beale wasn't half this pissed off all the time before they acted like cunts towards him.
>>7020224
How are they hypocrites? They picked a slate for what they thought were good authors that deserved to get recognized, it had nothing to do with politics.

I listened to an hour long interview where they pretty much said that they didn't expect to win because their opponents would rather vote no award than vote someone based on the quality of their work.

Which is exactly what fucking happened.

>>7009737

IMO the best scifi work written by a woman is Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood.

Speaking about women , I read Cherryh's Faded Sun trilogy first , and then I read Dune... It all felt so similar but I can't tell which one I liked more.

There is too much Scifi to read too little time :(

>>7027091
What a shame. Couple of reviews were hinting at some interesting DEEPEST LORE shit hidden in there but that won't save a bad cast of characters.

>>7027364
The Book of the New Sun, m8.

Dead thread dead genere

>>7028927
Rothfuss and Sanderson killed it with their meme writing

>>7025479
Of course he's gonna say that. Do you have no clue how business works in the slightest? No one is gonna come out and say "well you really need to buy 3 books if you want to really understand whats going on".

>>7025400
>Saying someone else has autism while using BTFO in reply to your own posts

Just embarrassing at this point

>I hate pretty much everything about this and dont want to read more because I know Ill also hate that
>its a guilty pleasure of mine xDD

If you don't want to get called out for laughably misusing phrases don't post in the first place

The funniest part is in all the time you've spent making posts and desperately researching interviews made by the author you could've just read the other books since they're extremely short. Instead you choose to be the person who turns off a movie after 20 minutes, while constantly trying to impress how literary you are (which does nothing but make people question why you're here in the first place)

I don't give a shit about the Broken Empire. I tried to help you with a retarded outlook on reading connected series that is only hurting yourself and it's clear now that you're intent on sticking to said outlook. There's nothing else to say so lets drop it

>>7029374
>>7029374
>>7029374
>>7029374
FUCKING THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS

FUCK GENERIC FANTASY, JESUS DICK. GIVE US MORE CHINA MIEVILLES, NOT HACKTRICK ROTHFUSS AND BRANDON CUCKERSON

>>7030083
>GIVE US MORE CHINA MIEVILLES
Give us more communist rapists?

>>7030088
since hwen has he been a rapist?

>>7029927
>while constantly trying to impress how literary you are (which does nothing but make people question why you're here in the first place)
wat.
Why would you be impressed in the first place? Jesus, so insecure. And I'm not even sure what you imply with your parenthesis, if that means /lit/ sucks or what. I don't see how being well-read and posting here about some fantasy series sum up to "he's laughable".

>desperately researching interviews
lol, I literally googled: 'prince of thorns standalone interview' and simply picked up one at random.
Here's another one that took me about 50 seconds to find:

[Lawrence: ] I have very recently completed the third book of the trilogy so whatever plans I had (and they were few) are now committed to electronic ink and paper. Prince of Thorns was written to stand alone. The subsequent books take Jorg’s story into very different places as he grows. Book three is the end of the tale. I don’t believe any character should outstay their welcome.

>Prince of Thorns was written to stand alone.
>Prince of Thorns can be read as a stand-alone book.

>B-but muh marketing strats
You've repeatedly proven to be senselessly nitpicker, so yeah, let's drop this. I've detailed enough reasons why this series might not be for everyone in spite of the READ THEM ALL disclaimer (an argument lazy by your own admission) and I don't really care.

TWO TOWERS OR BEFORE THEY ARE HANGED

WHICH SHOULD I READ?

>>7031053
being a LoTR fag, two towers

>>7020765
>>7020936
>Wright

Agreed. John C. Wright consistently (I've never read his Orphans of Chaos or Everness books) goes out of his way to make the worlds of his books as nuts as possible. The Golden Age, Countdown to Eschaton, and Somewhither all do this.

>>7022337
>Fall of Hyperion: OUSTERS BAD

Did you even read the fucking books?

>>7017449
Anything by Timothy Zhan. Start with the Thrawn Trilogy

After this whole Hugo thing, I think I need to read more books by transgender blacks, lest my evil whitemanishness drive me to murder. Suggestions?

>>7031869
He's a Sanderson fanboy so it's safe to assume he has a short attention span and needs memes in his books to keep him amused.

>Anon raised his eyebrow.

>>7018963
moorcock is a fool
the entire new wave movement sucked

>>7031869
I stated that it has been several years but the Hegemony generally ALWAYS painted Ousters in a bad light, especially since they were self-sufficient in space.

Currently reading this, on book four. It's a bit whack, but for some reason I keep reading. It's basically pulp fiction - but 1.2 million words long.

>>7032781
You keep reading it because deep down you know it's the truth

>>7032738
Yeah because the Hegemony are CLEARLY supposed to be the objectively good guys.

You're a fucking idiot.

>>7009525
Just finished reading The Book of the New Sun. I really enjoyed it, though it left a few too many things unfinished for my taste. Should I read Urth of the New Sun? Or does it suffer from lack of quality Dune-style?

>>7032940
It doesn't go down and things were really complete and things he focused on got a conclusion. What did miss?

>>7032345
Its sad that I have a hard time deciding whether Sanderson fanboys or the incredibly vocal haters of Sanderson are more autistic.

>>7033178
That's good, I don't often hear that to be the case with sequels. I'll have to pick it up then, thanks anon.

>>7033323
Urth is not really a sequel, it's more of an explanation for the whole thing. Long Sun is okay. Currently reading Short Sun.

>>7022704
Revelation Space?

So I'm reading The Forever War, the so-called greatest sci-fi military novel ever written. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but it appears that the book contains women in combat roles. Are you FUCKING kidding me?

That's the most fictional part of the whole book, tbh. I literally cannot take it seriously at. all. It ruins the entire book (so far).

>>7009951
Gibson?

>>7010109
Yeah, except consoles really do suck.

>>7033340
Keep your politics out of this thread

>>7033442
This is not politics, this is a fucking garbage plot device (and let's be honest, the author has a pretty sexist opinion of women, combat roles or not) that makes no fucking sense, from someone writing during the Vietnam era no less.

The book is shit m8. I pray earnestly that every woman is dead before the halfway mark so we can finally get an actual war story going.

>>7033453
>>7033340
It's satire. Everything's upside down from when Haldeman was in 'Nam, then everything's upside down for our boy when straight is the new queer, then everything's upside down for our Polynesian homo army when everyone is clones. Every generation's trying to solve something and making everything worse.

Bump

If this thread has moved beyond a focus on female authors, then it won't do to leave Stanisław Lem unmentioned. One of the greats.

One thing that no SF author had the vision to predict was gets or comment karma.
>>7033333

What fantasy books have the best cover?

>>7036192
Sci-FI but whatever

>>7036192
The stuff with Frazetta paintings on it.

Any books with the style of Morrowind? Aka eastern influence (Mesopotamians, Jews, Japanese) with some form of metaphysical framework going on in the background (like CHIM and the Godhead in Morrowind) with heavy religious themes like ancestor worship, Dagoth Ur's existing both in phenomena and noumena due to his half awareness of CHIM. Themes of xenophobia and unease, with comfy moments, would be nice tbh

>>7037118
Second Apocalypse might be your thing, strong Byzantine vibes in there

>>7037118
Dune.

>>7009525
Sounds like The Braided Path

Except there's no comfy moments.

>>7037152
>>7037236
>>7037254
Thanks lads, you know of any Gnostic sf/f aside from Dick?

>>7037300
You could try some of Herbert's other stuff. If it's not directly Gnostic it's at least something the kind of person who enjoys Gnosticism would like.

>>7009797
Tehanu is an anomaly but I kind of like it. Definitely weaker than most of the six - to me the highlights are the first two and the last one.

Le Guin is one of my favorite authors regardless of gender or genre.

Other than GRRM and Robert Jordan who are some other authors who shamelessly insert their fetishes into their narrative?

>>7039343
There's an Australian fantasy author who has furries in her four-book masterwork.

>>7036192
The local publishing branch of Harper-Voyager does all their covers in this style - a little basic maybe, but I like them a lot.

>>7036192

I just started reading this an I'm struggling a bit. I don't really read much, so this is an attempt to start doing it more. Does the book start becoming more digestible later on as you begin to understand all the made up words?

>>7040201
Sorry

>>7014766
>>7014884
>>7014998
BotNS is GOAT. Wolfe loves making up words and not elaborating what they mean (or, rather, he has the from-a-far-distant-time narrator use them in his recounting, then speculates as GW what these vague objects could be), which can be annoying, but it really calms down after the first book. Gets progressively better up until the third, which I'd call the best, not that the fourth is disappointing or anything. Things take a long time to take shape, but getting to them is still enjoyable. There's a lot of reread value. I've only just started the fifth, so I can't speak for that.

>>7040768
also consider the enthusiasm I must have for BotNS to respond to a request made in such a pathetic, faggoty way

>>7040201
>>7040206
Eventually, yes. That's not to say it gets good. After finishing it, my immediate impression was that it had left no impression. Finish it to see for yourself or just so you can say you have, otherwise don't bother.

>>7040768
>>7040780
Gene Wolfe dosent nake up words; words like fuligin and names like Severian are all real, even if antiquated.

>>7040871
You list an archaic word used straight and a name, neither of which I implied.

He takes very old, very obscure words and assigns them meanings vaguely related to their root definitions. He also takes very old, very obscure words and makes up new words derived from them.

>>7040915
Examples would be great. As far as I saw every word was real and used in a correct context

>>7040984
'Abibblewibble'

>>7040992
Some context would help, its been a while and I dont know every page of the book.

>>7040984

"Destrier" is a technical term for a specific type of horse.

In BotNS, they're not horses. They have claws and can run at ridiculous speeds. I'm not sure what they are, but they'r enot horses.

>>7041272
I know Gene Wolfe uses actual words as approximations for things in his world. My point was that very few if any of the terms he uses are made up.

Is there a classier gentleman in Fantasy than Patrick Rothfuss?

>>7041509
damn he thicc...

>>7041272
>In BotNS, they're not horses. They have claws and can run at ridiculous speeds. I'm not sure what they are, but they'r enot horses.

Did you read the Appendix? He doesn't make up words. It's a great use of a gimmick* imo (*i.e., literary resource).

Also, see pic related.
>destrier
>these mounts are highly modified horses, possessing clawed feet (for better traction) and large canine teeth, sometimes referred to as “tushes,” or tusks (I, chap. 28, 242). They are capable of running at 100 miles per hour, and are at least partly herbivorous.
>History: a warhorse, a charger.

>>7037841
The last book is a funny one. It starts of bad, like an author trying to write like her, but not quite hitting the mark. It gets better, but doesn't seem to go anywhere, and then the end moves like lightning. Man, it was a satisfying conclusion to the series though. I wonder if she planned the dry land to be that from the beginning?

>>7041509

He's a jackass. I hate myself for getting hooked on KC.

>>7039374
Wow, I remember reading this books fucking ages ago. Surprised anyone else has read them tbh.

>I write highbrow literary fiction more filled with allusion and philosophical depth than anything the Morlocks recommend. Each time they claim to be what I am, an refined aesthete of exquisite literary accomplishment, another imp in hell laughs in the delight and the Empire of Lies grows another inch. Unlike the poseurs and pretend intellectuals, however, I can also read, admire and applaud wrecked but well meant pulp fiction and lowbrow fun. Because I am human and I like humans, whereas the Morlocks regard humans as food animals.

This gave me a bestiality fetish.

>>7044341
As did this. Very strange book.
>tfw you read 1600 pp a day
Help.

>>7039343
Delany

>chewed fingernails
>polyamory
>dirty feet

>>7044344
Sounds great, thanks. Any other bestiality recommendations? ; )

>>7044385
Not that I can think of. I didn't exactly seek them out.

>>7044385
The Last Werewolf by Glen Duncan.

>>7044341
Whats it about?

>>7045676
A werebear thief.