/lit/ - Literature

How is magic mountain? Thinking of reading it sometime soon.

>>6841450
If nothing else, it's a very pleasant read.

Not op btw

>>6841450
GOAT

>>6841450
Comfy af book. Take your time reading it. No less than six months.

Now how about Dr Faustus?

Best Kafka?

>>6841332
I own that copy of the tin drum.

Pretty fuckin' funny book.

Made me pissed when franzen and that dude he was interviewing said that germans dont have funny writers.

>>6841332
>Grass
kek

>>6841632
Franzen exposed for pleb.

Kafka is hysterical

Can't fin a decent Tin Drum Everyman's tbh.

I wonder why it's oop from them. Jews?

Don't want a fucking pb.

>>6841626
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_German_Novels_of_the_Twentieth_Century
see here
Ernst Jünger is underrated in Germany, but he's probably not on that list because his breakout work isn't a novel

>>6841672
Kafka's not German, he's Austro-Hungarian-Czech-Jewish, and disliked the German language

>>6841697
>Czech
By that same logic, I could say that Caesar was not Roman, because now Rome is part of Italy.

also
>hates German language
>write lots of shit in German
>become epitome of German prose
kek, how did that work out Franz? Shoulda written in a language you didn't hate.

>German thread
>nobody speaks german

Ihr Amis seid schon ein lahmer Haufen.

>>6841705
>By that same logic, I could say that Caesar was not Roman
nope, look into the history of romantic nationalism and the history of austria-hungary in particular
antiquity and modernity don't compare to each other very well
Kafka was also particularly rooted in czech culture, he could speak czech, unlike other jews that could only speak german (which was the dominant business language) and maybe some jewish dialect

>how did that work out Franz?
a lot of things didn't work out for Franz, he was kind of miserable or atleast unsettled most of the time
German was also the common literary language of the time, and I think his Hebrew wasn't great, since that language wasn't revived yet at the time, he did consider moving to Palestine, but that didn't work out.
The whole point is that he couldn't escape something (a language) that was unnatural to him that he hated, much like the characters in his stories.

>>6841719
>implying I don't speak German
gtfo Bockwurst, why are Germans on the internet always so particular and touchy about their nationality
in random comment sections they go on about "As a German" or "here in Germany" usually with an identical style that resembles German grammar or common mistakes made by Germans
it's annoying as fuck

>>6841745
Are you Czech or something? If not, I'm not sure why you're bothering. Only Czech nationalist have a dog in this fight.

>>6841790
I'm not Czech and it's got nothing to do with whether I'm a nationalist or not

>>6841745
Yes, but you could then go on to say that Bavarian authors are not actually German authors and whatnot. Saying Kafka was Czech is wrong because he was not born in the Czech nation, just as Caesar was not born in Italy and Walther von der Vogelweide was not born in Germany.

>and I think his Hebrew wasn't great
It was actually really good, considering, as you pointed out, that there was de facto no Hebrew language. To get back to my old friends, like Italians writing in Latin...

>>6841790
it's not a dog fight it's about the facts you fucking goon

>>6841811
>Saying Kafka was Czech is wrong because he was not born in the Czech nation
he was born in the czech nation, he wasn't born in a czech nation state, if anything he was born in the czech and jewish nation simultaneously, which was dominated by german intellectual and business life at the time


like I told you, you're completely ignorant of the history of modern romantic nationalism and it's significance to the multi-national state of austria-hungary, you literally have no idea what you're talking about
the italian nation was formed in the late 19th century, a shared italian identity barely existed before that point
a roman identity did exist, if he had been born in greece he would have still considered himself roman, as many did that were born like that
literally just look up romantic nationalism on wikipedia or read hobsbawm or read a bit about kafka

>no Zettels Traum

Step up your meme game nigga.

>>6841833
The facts are already agreed upon by all parties, namely, a Jewish man was born in Prague in 1883 and wrote books in German. The matter under dispute is "interpretation" of these facts. Rival nationalisms really. Seems pretty much a dog fight to me.

>>6841758
Mir ist auch klar, dass ein Haufen meiner Landsleute ziemlich einen an der Waffel hat. Aber genauso wie es nervige Deutsche im Internet gibt, gibt es Amis die meinen, sie würden Deutsch sprechen, wenn sie mal was durch Google Translate gejagt haben oder "jawohl mein Herr" und "Bratwurst" schreiben können.

>>6841840
>confusing the wishful thinking of an incorporated territory with historical facts

>>6841603
>>6841625
>>6841470

Sounds good to me. Unfortunately i'm a filthy pleb who cannot into German. Any recommended translations?

>>6841995
>2015
>unable to into German
it's all the Russians' fault. Had they not stopped us, everyone could read Magic Mountain in original now.

>>6842009
But we wouldn't have any copies of it. Nazis didn't like Mann so much.

What are some great writers besides Goethe, Shiller, Kafka and Hesse?

>>6841995
John Woods for Mann whenever available. HT Lowe Porter is antiquated.

Can we talk about a too-often-ignored philosophy superhero?

The man, the legend. FICHTE

>>6842009
Not sure that's a worthwhile trade off tbh.

>>6842073
thomas mann, robert musil, arno schmidt, lion feuchtwanger, fuck goethe, tho

>>6842073
1. Jünger
2. Mann
3. Hesse

9001. Grass, Böll, Koeppen etc

This is it as far as the 20th Century is concerned imo..Kleist has some good stuff too, as does Fontane.

Do you need to have to read Schopie for Mann? Cause World as... is as insurmountable as COPR for me.

>>6842104
Okay thanks a lot. Looking forward to it

>>6841332
Yo, germanfag here. Gotta admit I've read way too little by my own nation's great writers, but jesus
>Everything by Hesse
>Death in Venice & Other Stories
can easily measure up to anything in english/'merricun litterchure

>>6842073
>no one has mentioned Walser yet

>>6842009
except, you know, the nazis would've murdered Mann and burnt every copy of his books they could've found anywhere :)
der geschichtsgag war die faktenverdrehung allerdings fast schon wert

>>6841678
the new tin drum ( i think 05 published) is the one still in print and it was Grass helped in the translation... awesome novel!

has anyone actually read Mann's Joseph and his brothers... and was it as marvelous as I dream of it being

>>6842507

Grass is amazing. One of the best living writers. Local Anaesthetic is my john.

>>6841625
>take six months to read a book
things pseuds say

>>6842527
sadly he died a couple months ago...:( it was the same day Gene faggot Wolfe died and he had a banner on lit... Grass Hardly got mentioned :( But i totally agree TIn drum is my favorite novel of all time Grass is a genius!

>>6842536
lel. all the newspaper editorials I read on his death waned on his scandalous and ironic Nazi affiliation. makes sense that such a German cuck would be a retard Nazi.

>>6842548
>clearly hasnt read Grass

>>6842522
No. Although he does consider it his magnum opus.

>>6841908
kek des Jahres 2015

>>6841332
ej Blödmann meinste ja nich "MemetriloGIE"
>Amis die nicht mal buchstabieren können
k

>>6841332
Wer wollte sich auch schon umbringen, nachdem er Kant gelesen hat?

Who else also already wanted to kill himself, after he was reading Kant?

>>6842148
>Jünger
Cool meme author

Just bought a really nice anniversary edition of Goethe's Faust, which includes parts 1 & 2, as well as Urfaust. In German, of course. Looking forward to reading it

>>6842110
>le Tyrrany is good face

>Deutsch
>Niemand hier spricht deutsch

Du was, m8?

>>6842218
hesse is like coelho, only older. it's 'high-literatire' for people who only read pleb shit normally. his novels are just collections of commonplaces to make idiots feel good.

Does anyone here besides me speak German?
I am not German though

>>6842073
>Shiller

>>6844120
One time in a discussion on here I kept typing out "Schilling" instead.

>>6842148
>Koeppen
absolutely devoid of any artistic talent, and then went on to say "it's SUPPOSED to be like that".

Best post-war author is Borchert, full stop.

>>6843494
>reading Kunt
>not disregarding his opinion right away
How's the eighteenth century going for ya?

>>6844121

>>6841450
I thought it was really good, especially after having followed a course on the Bildungsroman
Mann really knew how to write characters I think, and there's especially one scene where they roll down the curtains for Cousin Ziemssen that really got to me
Also parody, absurdity, occultism etc. etc., it's fucking GOAT

>>6842073
Lessing, Hölderlin - 18th century
Chamisso, Fontane, Gottfried Keller (Swiss), Büchner, Kleist, Heine - 19th century
Frisch, Jünger, Remarque, Rilke, Fallada, Heinrich Mann, Brecht, Stefan Zweig, Rilke, Stefan Georg, Hofmannsthal - 20th century

If you want something fresh and Swiss, I can recommend Christian Kracht.

>>6842536

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I'm sad now.

Like really sad.

>>6841450
I found it a pretty boring read. I felt like the author spent a lot of time reflecting on seemingly useless things that have little to do with the plot:
However, there were a lot of really beautiful descriptions, like when Hans Castorp goes skiing.
This is just my opinion though, if you want a taste of it, read it instead of asking.

>>6841332
>thomas mann

Dislike him. Second-rate, ephemeral, puffed-up.

>>6842218
Seriously, man. Mann is great, but Hesse is best for bright adolescents.

>>6842218

have you read the glass bead game?>>6843898

How do I into German lit? I've read Trials of Young Werther & The Magic Mountain & liked them both.

Bump

>>6841697
>Kafka's not German, he's Austro-Hungarian-Czech-Jewish, and disliked the German language
>things idiots spout

>>6841745
>The whole point is that he couldn't escape something (a language) that was unnatural to him that he hated, much like the characters in his stories.
>mfw nobody calls this faggot out on extremely (intentionally) mis-interpreting statements from Kafka

>>6844610
>>6844600
Was zum Teufel hast du gerade über mich gesagt, du kleine bitch? Du solltest wissen, ich habe als bester in meiner Navy Seal Ausbildung abgeschnitten und war in vielen geheimen Angriffen gegen Al Quaeda und habe über 300 bestätigte Abschüsse! Ich bin in der Affenkriegsführung trainiert und bin der beste Scharfschütze der Armee der Vereinigten Staaten. Du bist nichts für mich außer ein weiteres Ziel! Ich werde dich mit der höchsten Präzision auslöschen, die die Erde jemals erfahren durfte; lass dir das Gesagt sein! Du glaubst du kämst damit weg, Dreck über mich im Internet zu reden? Denk nochmal, Wichser! In eben diesem Augenblick kontaktiere ich mein geheimes amerikanisches Netzwerk von Spionen und lasse deine IP verfolgen, also zieh dich Warm an, du Made! Diese Naturgewalt wird das vom Erdboden verschwinden lassen, was du dein Leben schimpfst! Du bist tot, kid! Ich kann zu jedem Zeitpunkt irgendwo anderes sein und dich in über siebenhundert verschiedenen Weisen töten, und das nur mit meinen Händen! Ich bin nicht nur ausgiebig im unbewaffneten Kampf trainiert, sondern habe auch Zugang zum kompletten Arsenal des Marine Corps der Vereinigten Staaten und werde dies vollumfänglich nutzen um deinen erbärmlichen Arsch vom Gesicht des Kontinents zu wischen, du kleiner Wurm! Hättest du doch nur wissen können, welch unheilige Vergeltung dein kleiner "cleverer" Kommentar über dich hineinbrechen lassen würde, vileicht hättest du dann deine dreckige Zunge im Zaum gehalten. Aber das konntest du ja nicht, du hast es nicht, und nun wirst du den Preis dafür bezahlen, du gottverdammter Idiot! Ich werde all meinen Zorn über dich scheißen, und du wirst darin ertrinken. Du bist tot, kiddo!

>>6844693
learn german
use verbs

>>6841332
The reality is that nobody on this board ever reads Musil, Junger, Grass, Walser.... You get a few people that read Magic Mountain and a few Kafka and Hesse fans, but lit has a very limited knowledge and appreciation for German literature

>>6845570
Nien & nien.

>>6845759
So what should we be reading?

>>6845897
Thomas Bernhard, Hermann Broch, Robert Walser, Gunter Grass, RObert Musil, THomas Mann, Franz Kafka, Heinrich Boll, there are so many top tier german authors just jump in!

>>6845897
Are you joking? He's saying people on here should actually read Musil, Grass, and so on.

>>6845920
Can vouch for Bernhard, Mann and Kafka. Where to start with Böll and Broch? Death of Vergil?

Does anyone have recommendations for German poetry? Preferably post-war. I love Ashbery, Berrigan, OHara for reference.

>>6846006
Actual I've been reading the Death of Virgil too, but put it on the back burner as I was finding it very slow. He seemed to make Virgil very dithering.

>>6846006
Death of Virgil is a good starting place for Broch, his magnum opus is the Sleepwalkers. Boll seems more elusive to find so anything will do... The clown, Billiards at half past 9 and my personal favorite the Train was on time are all solid

I'm at B1 at Deutsch and this thread pleases me.

What are some books that are easy to read?

>>6846087
>I'm at B1 at Deutsch and this thread pleases me.
I mean an honest good place to start is brüder grimm... they have many starter tier works pretty easily available.. really a blessing for ppl trying to learn german to have such a prolific childrens writer duo

>>6841908
Ich weiß nicht, zugestanden, viel gelesen, aber wenn ich es tat, war entweder es Rilke, in der ursprünglichen böhmischen deutschen oder Nietzsche mit all seinen köstlichen Polonisms.

>>6846142
Vielen Dank!
Is there a place to download the ebooks?

>>6842073
vis der Strang:
>>6845892

>>6846187
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/foreignfiction/

>>6846187
>http://gen.lib.rus.ec/foreignfiction/
also bernhard is a good starting place once you think you have it mastered... he isnt terribly difficult to understand, but hes an amazing writer... i think my first german novel after tiring of brothers grimm was Wittgensteins Nephew and i was able to comprehend it alright

>>6844662
read about half of it about 10 years ago and got fed up becuase it was so nice and comfy. I recently bought it, i'm gonna read it again, not because it's by hesse, but because i'm interested in german language 'high literature' authors writing science fiction without it being called science fiction.

>>6846252
>>6846266
Thanks!

>>6842191

I've only read a handful of his short stories, but I didn't see much Schopenhauer in them. If you wanna read Schopie though, try his studies in pessimism, it's short stuff, very clearly written. Might be a good precursor to Will

Thomas Mann is the end all and be all of literature... I came in my pants when I read Buddenbrooks. Not to mention Royal Highness, Doctor Faustus and Joseph and his Brothers. All people talk about is Magic Mountain but the dude published classic after classic.

>>6847155
One of the main characters in Buddenbrooks, the heir to the family or whatever, delivers a pretty massive, pessimistic misanthropist rant. Not that you need to read up on Schopenhauer like that though, the rant is pretty explicit and step by step if I remember correctly.
Magic Mountain, by comparison, I think is more subtle about it, I'm pretty sure Mann sneaks a near-quote of Nietzsche in there, but at the same time Buddenbrooks is still pretty layered, like with spooky Poe/Fall of House Usher elements

>>6846006
With Böll I can recommend finding one of his short collections as I have two of those
His short stories are journalistic and fresh, although they sometimes are sort of predictable in their story, but he also keeps it really short and depressing

>>6842522
On my shelf will read it before years end.

I picked up Mann after reading that he was a major influence on Mishima. I read Mishima when I was pretty young & was surprised by how fully formed the worlds of his stories were. Having read The Magic Mountain, it now makes a bit more sense. Does anyone know which authors were an influence on Mann?

>>6848636
Read Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship, the original Bildungsroman.
It was originally conceived as a play and it's a pretty fast read despite its size. Still feels a bit bloated at times but Goethe also touches an insane amount of subjects.
The kind of indecisive "unheoric hero" you find in the dilettante actor WM has many parallels with the decadent Hans Castorp, for example.

>>6848810
>a bit bloated

understatement of the century, that shit's fuckin' tedious. goethe is a wanker who couldn't edit his shit.

the original bildungsroman would be moritz' anton reiser, anyway

>>6848820
I doubt Bildung is the centre of the literary universe in Moritz' Anton Reiser like it is in WM though

>>6841332
>Thomas Mann magic mountain

Keine Kafka?

Hat irgendwer Peter Handke gelesen? Letztens zum ersten Mal ein Buch von ihm gelesen: ''Der kurze Brief zum langen Abschied''. War ziemlich furchtbar.

>>6846006
>I love Ashbery, Berrigan, OHara for reference.
I have no idea, who this people are, but for post-war poetry try out: Celan, Peter Huchel, Ingeborg Bachmann. More recent is Ernst Jandl, who is great, too, but you need to have a good feeling for the language (Sprachgefühl) to read him.

>>6841691
>6. Uwe Johnson: Anniversaries. From the Life of Gesine Cresspahl

Now THAT is a forgotten book

>>6848820
Max und Moritz is my favourite Bildungsroman closely followed by Die Fromme Helene. Both are novels in verse much like Onegin.

>>6849449
You should look up, what a Bildungsroman is. Also, the stories you mentioned aren't novels. Maybe you confused 'Bildung' with 'Bild'.

Does anyone have a German Literature chart or feel up to making one I can use to trigger my autism?

>>6841626
>>6841672
>>6846006

Guys if you are interested in German literature, you should check out Kafka's short stories in particular. His writing is not too hard to understand, so it's a good entry, but there's a lot of content between the lines. "In der Strafkolonie" (In the Penal Colony) and "Die Verwandlung" (Metamorphosis) were exceedingly great, but he had a lot of other great stories as well, such as "Das Urteil" (The Judgement). However "Der Prozess" (The Trial) was quite different and hardly enjoyable imho. I appreciate the connection between form and content, but it was real tiresome to finish.

What do you guys think of this here cheeky fucky?

>>6849642
I've read all of him, rather fond of Faserland and Imperium. "Ich werde hier sein..." and 1979 are also p good.

>>6849642
Only read Faserland. Is Imperium different? Because I don't really want to read about the same stuff again (the perspective of the narrator in F.).
I find that it's really just a marketing trick to call Faserland a "Roman", because it only has 160 pages which are streched due to typographic tricks. Besides that, it was an okay read. I thought the part with the Tod in Venedig reference was funny. It didn't appeal to me personally, but it has some merrit. Just skimming the wikipage, I guess I have missed some things (there is a gay twist?).

It also was a very easy read, because of its limited language. Maybe its a good start for people who want to learn the language.

>>6849724
>Is Imperium different?
Yeah in many ways.

Which version of the tale of Faust is the best, and should I read it in German? (I can read German)

>>6849789
>and should I read it in German
yes

>>6849540

I whipped this up quickly. This is German lit from an American perspective though, so ich heiße Deutsche willkommen, um mit der Liste zu helfen.

>>6849540
from the wiki

>>6849807
Now answer my other question, please.

>>6849859
I dunno, get freaking Reclam. Why would you care about "versions" so much if you're not reading a translation?

>>6849859
The text is freely accessible on the internet.

>>6849867
Are you serious? You know that Faust is a folktale that is several centuries old? And that Goethe is not the only person who wrote it down?
What I mean is, which written version is the best? And if it is Goethe, then is his original writing comprehensible to someone who learned modern German?

>>6849886
It's an old story, but when you say "Faust" (without "Doctor") in a German context it means Goethe. Who else could it mean?

>>6849886
>And if it is Goethe, then is his original writing comprehensible to someone who learned modern German?
No.
>You know that Faust is a folktale that is several centuries old? And that Goethe is not the only person who wrote it down?
Why would you want to get into into that if you're not accademically interested in the subject? As far as I know Goethe's Faust is still severly distinct from what may have come before him, especially in its theatrical form.

>>6849893
Doctor flippin Faustus, then. Pedantic folk, this lot.

>>6849895
>No
Then the question becomes which modern rendition is the best.
>Goethe's Faust is...severely distinct
That's absolutely fine. Is it the best, though? I'll read multiple versions, if that's your recommendation.

>>6849911
>That's absolutely fine. Is it the best, though?
That's like asking if Brave New World is better than The Picture of Dorian Gray.

They're different works, Incredibly old ones at that so that qualifying "better" may not even be possible.

>>6849724
If you ask me, Imperium=Faserland>Ich Werde Hier Sein...
Really love that dude though, 1979 is on the list.

>>6849867
Reclam editions aren't even that good though, price and aesthetics aside.

>>6849724
And what I actually meant to say was that Imperium is more of an adventure or a historic novelle, and that Knight of the Coconuts guy is really interesting source material

>>6849810
You Sir, are a prince amongst men.

>>6841450

It's the only German novel I have enjoyed so far.It's also pretty topical considering many of the political issues it tackles we still face in todays Europe,100 years after WWI.

In comparison, Hesse is insufferable in my opinion.

>>6845920
Zustimmung.

When in comes to German literature, most here haven not gotten beyond skimming wiki articles and regurgitating shallow amazon.com reviews. It is an embarrasment.

I love Arno Schmidt. Start with his earlier works, see if you like it and then tackle his more experimental books. Zettels Traum is utter insanity. Not to mention the version to acquire costs 250€.
http://www.suhrkamp.de/buecher/zettel_s_traum-arno_schmidt_80300.html

Look up Schwarze Spiegel and Seelandschaft mit Pocahontas. Far more easily digestible than, say, Abend mit Goldrand or Das Steinerne Herz. But if you had to struggle through Faust II or The Magic Mountain, stay away from Schmidt.

Also, check out Karl Kraus. He was Austrian, but so was Musil.

>>6850223
>In comparison, Hesse is insufferable in my opinion.
What have you read by him? I tried Steppenwolf and I didn't like it. I felt like it was all just "I'm different!"-drivel and I stopped reading it because of that. I have the theory that Hesse is more of an author for young people that you eventually outgrow from. But I haven't read enough of him to support this.

>>6849859
>>6849873
>>6849893
>>6849895
>>6849911
>>6849916

It's a bit of silly question but it happens to be something I'm kinda interested in so I'll give my input/experience.

I'm a huge fan of Faust stories, and so far I've read-

Marlowe
Goethe
Mann
Bulgakov

And I have on my to read list-
K. Mann (Thomas' son)
Banville

Of the various versions, I believe Goethe's is the most complete and ambition in vision. It spans not only the well known version of the Faust myth (in fact his is probably the one is that most famous in popular culture, alongside Marlowe's), but also a super crazy set of stories spanning Greek history/mythology and other crazy shit. Bet you most people don't know Greek travels back kin time and marries Helen of Troy in Faust II, cause no one reads it! I think Goethe's Faust is the one that tends to be most divorced of any societal and politicla influences, and is purely "literary." Not unlike something liek the Divine Comedy, Faust/Faust II is a very "self aware" work in terms of its debt and relation to classical literature.

Marlowe's Faust is a true play, as opposed to Goethe's, which was meant to be read and not performed (simplification, but yeah). As such, it is very much given to dramatic flourishes and devices that are meant to excite and evoke fear, excitement, sympathy, disgust, etc. in the audience/reader. If you're familiar with Marlowe it's a very standard display of Marlowe's learning and dramatic powers.

Mann's take is a not at all veiled allegory for Nazi Germany. It is very much tied to its time period and societal implications, but is also a finely constructed work. It is a later work than the more famous/celebrated Buddenbrooks and Magic Mountain, and I think Mann's power waxed with age. An added bonus is the intimate connection with classical music that was more background in Buddenbrooks and Magic Mountain, but is allowed to take center stage in Doctor Faustus. Here there is no observably occult and supernatural elements, and the story is rooted firmly in realism, a drastic departure from the previous two.

Bulgakov's is the least obviously Faustian of the Faustian myths. Like Mann, it is very much tied to the society the author lived in, in this case Soviet Russia. It is also highly metatextual, with the Master character as a very close facsimile of Bulgakov himself, and a sustained story-within-a-story that is the "Master's" novel. The Faust aspects are more subtle except in certain scenes (the Walpurgicnacht chapter, for example). The magic elements here approach the fantastical, and is more like a fairy tale than the classical and epic magical/divine elements of Marlowe and Goethe.

This is a brief summary, if you have more questions/want more detail on any of the works feel free to ask. I'd like to think I know these works fairly well.

>>6849819
Many thanks.

>>6850281
>Bet you most people don't know Greek travels back kin time and marries Helen of Troy in Faust II, cause no one reads it!
By 'Greek' do you mean Faust? But this is fascinating. Great post. I've only read Marlowe and Goethe and preferred Goethe, although I did like Marlowe's bit with the horse courser. I wrote an absolutely bullshit essay my Freshman year at uni in which I tried to prove that the horse courser represented Faust's subconscious.

She called me out on my bullshit

>>6850281
A fascinating comparison. You may enjoy Alexander Sokurov's film version.

>>6850281
Not him, but what do I need to know to approach Faust II? I gave it up when in the second Scene (or something) a bunch of figures appeared with names like metaphers and were spouting things. I just didn't know, what to make out of that. It felt even worse than the Walpurgisnacht, because that is right at the beginning - if you read Faust I you will just go through the Walpurgisnacht, because you already read most of the text. But throwing all that stuff at you in the second Scene (or something)? Awful. Also I know there will be more greek stuff, I don't actually care about.

Can you motivate me? Because I need to read it someday.

>>6841697
Yeah, that´s why he wrote in it.

>>6850303
Yea sorry lots of typos in that post should've proofed it blegh.

Your freshman prof outplayed you RIP.

>>6850312
I liked it a lot! :)

>>6850351
You're on /lit/, so obligatory
>not starting with the Greeks
>plebs detected
>etc. etc.

Memes aside, I think a good thing about Part II is that the different acts are pretty distinct and separated stories, so you can feel free to be completely baffled/bewildered by one act and not be totally fucked for the next one. Treat them as individual stories and don't worry about not getting every last allusion/metaphor/etc. unless you enjoyed that particular story.

I think it's really good and the ending is pretty transcendent, if a tad on the preachy side. At the very least read the last act.

>>6850279
Not that guy but I feel like Hesse's The Glass Bead Game/Magister Ludi (every English title seems shit) doesn't get mentioned enough. It's fairly big and dense, but worth it and I guess related to all the Bildungsroman in this thread.

Also Peter Camenzind for that matter, one of his older works, which definitely doesn't seem like it was written by "an author for young people". At the first glanse anyway.

I'm reading The Man Without Qualities right now and it's fucking stupendous. Mindblowing in a way. The Confusions of Young Master Törless was absolutely sensational also. Musil is such a great author. I want to read his Five Women next.

What do you guys think about Rilke? I read The Notebooks of Malte Laurids Brigge and in translation it was the best prose I've ever read, by anyone. Beats Woolf and maybe even Joyce. So gutted that I'll probably never read it in the original.

tl;dr: German modernism is GOAT

>>6850807
>>6850807
I've read the man without qualities when i was 17, it blew my mind away, especially the second part - there's also a couple of pages when brother and sister first make phisical contact that i remember vividly, it was around page 1020, i've never read anything so tender and erotic at the same time, such a great book

saving a great thread

>>6850279
I've read Siddhartha in english. Most of his points on the spiritual journey should be known to the well read, plus he butchers Buddhism.

So if Hesse is apparently bad now, am I at least allowed to only kinda like him? I've only read 5 of his books: Beneath the Wheel I really liked; Siddhartha was fun but I actually know shit about Buddhism so I couldn't care too much for the book, except some shit near the end was pretty neat in a NGE "Congratulations!" way; Steppenwolf was boring as fuck outside of the Magic Theater or whatever. Someone earlier in this thread said something about the novel being just "lol I'm so special" and I agree that it was shit for that reason; Narcissus and Goldmund was pretty great for the same reason I liked Beneath the Wheel, that it just followed one character dicking around for his whole life in a pretty comfy narrative; I don't remember anything from Journey to the East, and I just read it last week. I guess it was just that boring to me

I do own Magister Ludi, and I plan on reading it soon. Is it actually astronomically better than his more popular works?

>>6848841
it's about a guy getting gebildet by his circumstances. it's a negative Bildung, but a Bildung nonetheless (the element of educating the reader is missing, though). 'Anton Reiser' is something else than just a Bildungsroman, it's one of the first psychological novels.

It also has been an influence on Wilhelm Meisters Lehrjahre (especially the parts about theatre being used as an educational tool).Moritz was considered by Goethe as his little brother.

If you look at WIlhelm Meisters Lehrjahre closely, you will find, that (apart from the fact that it sucks ass) it isn't a good model for a 'pure' BIldungs- or Entwicklungsroman, it contains gothic elements that go against the educational intent of a Bildungsroman (e.g. the story of Mignon and the Harfner, a sinister brotherhood controlling Wilhelm Meister's experiences etc.)