/lit/ - Literature

>>6347323
It makes me squishy uwu

>>6347323
No.

Its a dialectical feeling

It's a 200 million dead people feeling

>>6347415
Yes for Marx, no for USSR. Marx had a utopian goal, perhaps unfeasible but nice. USSR was not a good execution, and I feel that Marx is not really to be held accountable for the actions of the USSR's leaders.

It's a feeling produced by the modes of social discourse

>>6347323
I feel a bulge in my pants every time

>>6347323
No because I'm not a cunt retard faggot.

>>6347423

>tfw no praxis qt

why even live?

>>6347419
Marx has about as much relation to the USSR about as Christ does to Christian states of ages past.

Not really. I am sure there is something there (as a critique of capitalism) but it's too boring to read and probably outdated. Seriously, who gives a fuck about economics? What do you hope to gain from it? I am surprised things are as good as they are now. I mean, dudes prior to WWI were already moving to the centre-left when the economy started improving after Marx predicted impending disaster. It seems stupid and lazy to come up with these big conceptual frameworks for things like politics. You have to be a real retard if you are a full-blown Communist in 2015. There isn't even a left-wing movement, unless you count those fat lesbians who go on and on about "rape culture" or whatever. I am so glad I didn't waste my youth in the library reading Karl Marx.

>>6347460

>being this detached from reality

>>6347392
Is your bear a cosmonaut? Cute.

>>6347428
That's not very nice of you, faux-me.
I'll be getting Harvey's A Companion to Marx's Capital eventually. But Stirner too.

>>6347460
I don't know if you're familiar with Marx. His Capital is actually flawed because he makes it *too* interesting, that is he invests too much in trying to make it appeal to really cerebral people instead of just being straightforward.

I'd also say that Marxism was never about communism as a movement within liberal democracy, Marx would see that as retarded as well.

I'm a fascist, and you should read Capital, it is a very important work in Western theory and provides very important insights into the mechanisms of capitalism. Reading Capital is not a waste, it is very rewarding, and if you are serious about understanding how society works and where power comes from, it is a must read.

>>6347469

>I'm a fascist

lmao

1945 called, they want their dragon dildo back

>>6347489
There is a reason the Grand Council of Fascism kicked Mussolini out of power.

>>6347469
If we had unlimited time, I would probably read it but since we don't, I am going to risk being ignorant about the details of how exactly capitalism is fucking me but I will assume I am being fucked somehow but I would probably be fucked by something else even harder if I wasn't fucked by the thing that is currently fucking me.

>>6347499
Capital is a core book, along with shit like Shakespeare and the Bible. If you don't read it, you are cheating yourself.

>>6347499
Life is shit for the majority of people and by degrees it goes up the classes, till we reach the laziest most entitled bastards who manipulate nations into resource wars. The imperialists of old have only decentralized and shifted their governing arms to some mostly sham elections.

I don't know how many hours a week you have to work, but I can't wait for retirement.
The lack of freedom and the poor education keep us from noticing the planet is getting wrecked.

>>6347419
>Marx had a utopian goal
Go read Socialism: Utopian and Scientific and shut your herpetic mouth cunt until you have.

>>6347507
Trying to read every core book is a trap.

Marx entirely plagiarized Victor Considérant, prove me wrong.

>>6347469
>His Capital is actually flawed because he makes it *too* interesting, that is he invests too much in trying to make it appeal to really cerebral people instead of just being straightforward.
Have you read Engel's Capital? (Volumes 2 & 3)

or the non M&E volume 4 Theories of Surplus Value (either version)?

>I'm a fascist, and you should read Capital

This, this so very much. Capital is a work of human culture for posterity. It is readable by anyone for any purpose. Only the communist proletarian will read it politically, as a read hot burning lance to pierce the pustule of their lived collective experience. Everyone else will enjoy the "too interesting" ideology.


I fucking hate that my nearest functional colleague on this image board is a well read fascist idealist.

>>6347517
>retirement
>she believes in retirement
>laughingboomers.lengthoftheworkingday.pdf

>>6347536
I believe there will come a day you have to stop working. A lot of the poor have to keep working for as long as they can because social security isn't enough. That'll probably be me.
"Believe" You must still be thinking I'm a complete idiot. You're a pompous ass.

To be honest, you are kind of tempting me to into Marx.

>>6347555
Here ya go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBazR59SZXk
I should finish watching these

>>6347549
The day when you stop working is the day you starve. Read up about miners in the 1930s and their "retirement."

>You must still be thinking I'm a complete idiot.

On an evidentiary basis.

Then again, why bother? The only thing I have noticed with Marxists is they tend to ignore any fact that contradicts their theory. Every war is fought because of resources, no exceptions. If a fact about a contemporary issue contradicts your theory, fuck it, ignore it, make it fit. Why bother researching the details of anything when you already have an economic theory that explains everything? You have the whole world figured out. If not, you have to read Adam Smith. Don't forget about Keynes. Don't you want to understand? Read that new book that came out a couple of years ago about Capital in the 21st Century. The list is growing and growing and if you don't keep reading and reading you will be basing your political views on too narrow of a view and you would have been better not treading into waters where you don't belong. I guess this could be said about any book but there needs to be some kind of selection process. What do you do after you discover capitalism is an evil system? You are either on the far-left and take to the streets and write pamphlets for the cause (which I'm not doing) or you cast your vote for some idiot and talk about things you don't understand with people who also don't understand. Yes, reading this would definitely be a waste of time and racking your brain on the wrong things is bad for you.

>>6347568

>evidentiary

pig disgusting word

literal semiotic vomit

>>6347572

>pretends to know anything about 'the theory' of Marxism
>hasn't even read the intro text to Marxism

off thysen

>>6347574
If it's not a theory, what is it then?

>>6347581

it is a discourse within the domain of theoretical discourse yeah. It's not a single 'theory' or 'their theory' as you say

>>6347568
>miners in the 1930s
Pardon me, comrade, but I already know about the pasts poverty of levels and the lack of social safety nets during the depression.

I am more worried about the workers of the 2030s and so on, will the GOP be able to scrap social security, things like that.

>>6347572
No one is suggesting you think inside their box.

>>6347582
That's like saying Darwinism isn't a theory because there are different branches of Darwinism.

>>6347585

no, it's like saying Darwinism isn't a single theory, which is correct.

>>6347572
Back when we had "parties."…

fuck it, "she"'s probably bourgeois.

>>6347585
For the record; evolution isn't theory anymore. Some patches need development, but so much has fallen into place it's virtually impossible to refute it as wrong.

>>6347572
I'm with this guy...

This is talked about a lot on here, but that's it. It's talked about.. And you can persuade a handful of people but ultimately nothing will be done. People aren't going to ever consider implementing marxism on a huge scale, not in our lifetimes. There is too much evidence against it, and the pasts shows it's ineffectiveness as well.
It's just a theory.

The reason systems like this don't work in my honest opinion would just be because humans aren't perfect, corruption is always eligible.

>>6347596

all hypotheses are theoretical, babe

>>6347586
Darwinism is both a single theory and not a single theory. Focusing on my word choice doesn't change the fact that the details of Marxism are better off ignored and forgotten, especially by regular ass people who aren't willing to deeply study economics (everyone here). Reading a summary is sufficient. No one here has made a decent argument of why further study is necessary, which is the best way to counter my argument.

>>6347605

>necessary

you wouldn't get it anyway

pleb

>>6347323
I'll just leave this here...

>>6347605
>the details of Marxism are better off ignored and forgotten
I take this back.

>>6347610
Suck it.

>>6347613

>ad hominem

don't be afraid to troll a little harder darling.

>>6347584
There will be no social security for you.

It is that simple.

It isn't a political issue: it is whether we kill them first.

>>6347613
2, 3, 4 and 6 are false.

>>6347532
No, because you can do it in a year. By "core", I don't mean the Western Canon, I mean Homer, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Plato, the Bible, Dante, Shakespeare, Milton, Goethe, Melville and Marx. Those are the core, in my opinion.

>>6347652
Nietzsche > Marx

>>6347536
>Have you read Engel's Capital? (Volumes 2 & 3)

>or the non M&E volume 4 Theories of Surplus Value (either version)?
Yes, Engels is of course a much better writer than Marx.His summary of Capital is also good (and Althusser recommends reading that first). He defines Marx's terms far better than Marx does.

>Only the communist proletarian will read it politically, as a read hot burning lance to pierce the pustule of their lived collective experience. Everyone else will enjoy the "too interesting" ideology.
It would incite me if I were worker. I'm a futures speculator, though, so I'm not exactly going to seethe at the injustice of the M-C-M circuit.

>I fucking hate that my nearest functional colleague on this image board is a well read fascist idealist.
Being a fascist idealist requires one to be well read. Compared to the German idealists and Giovanni Gentile, Marx is elementary (he'd probably prefer the term "straightforward), despite is lapses into academic bluster. Anyone who finds Marx too difficult to bother with oughtn't touch philosophy.

>>6347656
I don't think can make the comparison, it doesn't speak highly if you to think that you can. Furthermore their philosophies aren't even antipodes, which you'd know if you'd read The Dawn.

But yes, Nietzsche probably should have been there.

>>6347613
0/10

>>6347667
Why are you misunderstanding the context of what I wrote and bringing up things completely irrelevant to the discussion? Did you do it just so you could be an ass? It's obvious I meant Nietzsche belongs more on a core list than Marx. But of course that is a subjective opinion and I somewhat jokingly posted that. You are displaying autistic behavior here. I am onto you. And any two people can be compared, especially the two most influential philosophers of the 19th century. Face it, Nietzsche is the apple, Marx is the orange, and you regret spending all of those precious hours reading Marx.

>tripfag quasi-argument

basic

Fuck all of you commies.

>>6347696
I've read more Nietzsche than you have, and Marx is not a waste of time by any means.

As far as influence goes, Marx was a lot more influential than Nietzsche, dude. Marxism shook the world along with academics, Nietzsche just shook academics. Nietzsche certainly has better prose than Marx does, but he also deals with far less rigorous subject; you don't read Marx for the prose, you read him for the value of his analysis, which is tremendous no matter what your ideology or philosophy is.

>>6347699
This is as obtuse as saying fuck all you Christians in response to being told the importance of reading the Bible.

>>6347703
>Why are you misunderstanding the context of what I wrote and bringing up things completely irrelevant to the discussion?

>As far as influence goes, Marx was a lot more influential than Nietzsche, dude. Marxism shook the world along with academics, Nietzsche just shook academics. Nietzsche certainly has better prose than Marx does, but he also deals with far less rigorous subject; you don't read Marx for the prose, you read him for the value of his analysis, which is tremendous no matter what your ideology or philosophy is.

>>6347703
It doesn't matter how much you read when you're not understanding any of it.

>>6347460
>>6347532
>>6347572
>>6347605
>>6347656
>>6347696
>>6347699


ITT Muselmänner

>>6347706
Most of the Bible can be safely skipped and read in summary as well. Fuck all of you Christians too.

"An unrestrained thirst for knowledge for its own sake barbarizes men just as much as a hatred of knowledge." -F.N.

>I'm a fascist

>>6347718
>great engrish
Fuck off german slime.

It doesn't matter what you know by ideology when you know nothing by praxis.

>>6347573
I'm sorry you have a problem with english, maybe you should reconsider your literacy.


>>6347597

>people aren't going to consider

consideration doesn't matter, learn what praxes are.

>>6347666
Engel's problems are his schematisism. Marx is more fluid, but necessarily, his disengagement from immediate struggle rings true.

>M—C—M'
I'm not expecting you to seethe, we've discussed previously your class position and you are nothing if not correct in your evaluation of your position. It is just that you're incapable of enacting the theory in your fight over the length of the working day, for example, and discovering the esoteric truth of your own experience in collectivity. And we've previously discussed this to fatigue. If only more of /lit/ read like you.

>Marx…lapses into academic bluster
He was a fallible man, particularly on his desire for attention.

>Anyone who finds Marx too difficult…oughtn't touch philosophy.
Excepting the philosophy of praxis, yes. It is like people think "priest" was a bludgy job. OTOH, I look at priests workloads and wonder if I shouldn't have taken a profession instead of an avocation. (And I rue that only we will understand that.)

>>6347729
>treating Nietzsche quotes like a Bible

>I have a terrible fear I shall one day be pronounced holy: one will guess why I bring out this book beforehand; it is intended to prevent people from making mischief with me...I do not want to be a saint, rather even a buffoon

>>6347798

>I
>I
>I
>I

Nietzsche should shut the fuck up

>>6347797
Mm. I wonder what you look like.

>>6347808
That's from Ecce Homo, the subject of the work is Nietzsche himself.

>>6347823
An unattractive Zizek. Feel free to impute a working class deficiency of attractiveness.

>>6347415
>200 million dead people
lol, the highest number anti-communists tend to fabricate is 100 million from the Black Book, and even that number is increadibly dubious for the Black Blook always taking the high-number and attributing excess deaths to Communist Regimes.

>>6347494
But intellectual fascism is largely politically irrelevent, with the only exception being small student intellectual circles in Europe. The majority of fascists that have political sway are Nazis.

Are all the trip fags marxist or something?

>>6347415
But I can hear the chants of the billions of futuristic souls

>>6347323
I don't know why you're pushing my pics with communist simbology. I'm cool with it, I didn't make the originals and I don't have strong feelings about the communist block. But try to move above the most dumb threads, okay? cool.

>>6347392
It's a special kind of feeling

>>6347460
Hey Twiggy! You're back!
Have you though new trolling material or you're just going with the flow?

>>6347469
>it is a very important work in Western theory and provides very important insights into the mechanisms of capitalism. Reading Capital is not a waste, it is very rewarding, and if you are serious about understanding how society works and where power comes from, it is a must read.
I really like you OYTIE
You shouldn't discuss with Twiggy, he's just playing around.

>>6347596
It is a theory because it can't be reproduced in a controlled environment. It will always be a theory because of that. That's how that word works, it's not about being VERY true.

>>6347656
That's like saying
coke >pasta
there is no field of competition

He is a cunt who completely misread Hegel for his nut purposes.

>>6348674
>I really like you, fascist guy

Is this what the left has become?

>>6348733
no, that's just the best reactionary propaganda can achieve now a days. a log shot from "i think you're right", "i would vote for you" or even "i'm interested in your arguments"

>>6348674
>It is a theory because it can't be reproduced in a controlled environment.
It actually can be. see the guppy experiment. Evolution as the origin of the human race remains a theory because it cannot be reproduced in a controlled environment, but evolution itself can.

>>6348685
didn't he just interpret Hegel to work for Materialism?

>>6350044
Historical materialism isn't a materialism. The "material" relates to how people collectively subsist, not to a noumenal physicality. Marxism rejects metaphysics as irrelevant, and makes conditional dialectical determinations within human culture as a historical phenomena.

When will it be socially accepted to talk about your crush Karl in public?