/lit/ - Literature

>>6272099
He's right, as usual, but that has fuck all to do with literature.

It's basically true, pop music is inherently frivolous and ready-made for quick consumption, and any attempt to become a serious form of discourse will probably have most academics laughing.
But that doesn't mean it cannot inspire action, I mean just look at the 60's counterculture.

>>6272099
>>6272121
He had a similar stance about literature that deals with ww2/the holocaust. ('To write a poem after Auschwitz is barbaric')

>>6272182
lol wut

>>6272182
Way to misread him, that was his stance on all art, not only on that which dealt with ww2. Also, he later sort of retracted that statement, since even if culture is dead and farcical, despair still needs to be expressed.

Why are the humanities so obsessed with these two chucklefucks?

>>6272205
That's just one chucklefuck, and they aren't.

>>6272219
I've rarely seen this man's name not presented alongside Horkheimer's.

>>6272199
I know that he retracted this statement later and that the statement refers to all art. Still the train of thought is similar his statement in the OP

>>6272229
Well they were BFFs for sure, and wrote one book together, which is -undeservedly imo- the most popular work by either author. Which already tells you how 'obsessed' with them the humanities really are.

>>6272205
Because they're all cultural marxists.

>Critical theory

>>6272230
Not really, in OPs statement he talks about entertainment music. Serious music, on the other hand, was to him, if done right, a proper medium of critique and utopian thought.

>>6272262
>>6272259
Took you long enough, but welcome to the thread anyway.
Is critical theory
(A) a jewish plot to exterminate the white race and destroy civilization
(B) a bourgeois plot to undermine the revolutionary effort of the movement
(C) a satanic plot by sabbatean-frankists to sacrifice everybody ln the altar of sacred transgression or something
?

>>6272289
Mostly B, partly A, and if A then also B.

>>6272263
what i meant is that he refers to the disparity between what art can/does express and the cruelties of the holocaust and a similar disparity between pop music and political protest in OP's post.

But you're right that it isn't a 1:1 comparison, especially with the special role of the German language/German art wth respect to the holocaust.

>>6272291
Wait so they destroy civilization by preventing a communist uprising?

>>6272289
(D) SECULAR MEMETIC PROTESTANT DEATH CULT

>>6272252
I suppose it's the most popular work because no-one knows about Eclipse of Reason and no-one can understand Negative Dialectics.

>>6272318
>secular
sure
>memetic
meme theory is nonsense, but if it wasn't, wouldn't that apply to all theories?
>protestant
lolwut, I thought the problem is they're evil satanic jews?
>death cult
how so?

>>6272325
Oh well, there's still Minima Moralia, but that book gets zero academic attention, even if it is comparatively popular.

Would he say the same thing about his books

>>6272358
No, they're not for entertainment.

>>6272289
None of those, just a retarded ideology popular among champagne socialists.

>>6272361
Maybe political songs are just as much entertainment as his books

>>6272099
Yes, I am aware that Adorno is heavily influenced by reactionary thinkers like de Maistre.

>>6272368
That's still a B then, I guess.

>>6272343
There was a good treatment of it in J. M. Bernstein's Disenchantment and Ethics... I suspect academics interested in trauma also find it a useful book

>>6272312
Yes. Capitalism is as destructive as communism.

>>6272382
>le volkish face

>>6272335
Haven't you heard? Secular Protestants and secular Jews have always been in league with each other in countries where critical theory has a foothold.

>>6272391
>le Catholic face
Step up, heathen

>>6272397
papist scum

>>6272403
Enjoy your heresy and lack of tradition
Enjoy your secular Protest and death cult

>>6272369
No. The songs are much more entertaining, otherwise they wouldn't be popular. And that's what's wrong with them.
>>6272382
>everyone not going in the exact direction I want them to go is a hostile plotter
I miss being 12

>>6272393
>countries where critical theory has a foothold
There are no such countries. Also, that's a retardedly simplified view of the connection between secularism, protestantism, jewish emancipation, modernity and marxism you have right there.

>>6272414
They're not that popular. If he's so concerned about consumption why doesn't he forego profits on his books, fuck this guy

>>6272418
Cultural Marxism has infected every first-world country, through the universities.

>>6272433
it's too bad 4chan will just never be board that isn't full of losers

>>6272122
>It's basically true, pop music is inherently frivolous and ready-made for quick consumption
That's only because the contemporary critical discourse has undermined the simplistic popular=good conception by tying it to consumerist/capitalist ideologies simply because of the normative space it occupies. Being anti-normative is just a knee-jerk reaction to the realisation that pop music has broadly been applied in order to homogenise culture, but it shouldn't encourage you to dismiss pop music on the whole. Why would you refuse to use a hammer if a carpenter used it to bludgeon his wife to death with it?

>>6272099
>by taking the horrendous and making it somehow consumable, it ends up wringing something like consumption-qualities out of it.

Similar to academia, no?

>>6272437
You're stuck with us.

>>6272418
And yet it's accurate :^)

>>6273133
>Someone edited that from the original version
>time spent
topkek

>>6272197
spot the clod who doesn't belong here

>>6273133
>that pic
>that post
>mfw

>>6273133
Your epistemology will never escape its inherently reactionary dialectic and as consequence all 'research' presented will for ever be tainted in its own futile attempts to resolve the aporia of its existence.

"What a condescending image"

>>6272099

This is ONE HUNDRED percent correct.

>>6272099
LOL did he actually state that all art is inherently barbaric?

>>6272289

It's all 3 but also more than that. The most interesting element of the Frankfurt school actually rests in the astral plane, where it attempts to advance dark energies from the underworld against the forces of light, by surreptitious means. I even considered for a time than there was a 5th, even higher level, where it was actually a legitimate philosophical project, but I've since rejected such foolishness.

Does /lit/ finally hate critical theory?

>>6272099
>What do you think?

I think he's right, though I usually can't abide "entertainment music" regardless of its message.

>>6273884
Sort of, as culture had completely collapsed due to WWII and the culture industry. He still placed a high value on art though, and saw it as the only means capable to give any critical impulse.