/lit/ - Literature

>>6196269
nah.

>>6196269
The Jews
now do your own homework fucko

>>6196275
>>6196275
I have no homework I'm just bored and have been wondering about this topic for a while

Can someone explain what a simulacrum is in everyday english? Is it basically like the movie Inception but not the Matrix (there was a proper reality in the matrix).

90s kids are entering the workforce
it's simple

>>6196277
The imitation of something without the things original substance, or a simulation of something which does not exist in reality

Disney world for example

>>6196284
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure I see the connection between people who were children in the 90s becoming workers and the culture at large embracing the 90s (or at least, the nostalgia of the 90s) as its benchmark

The 80s didn't become the 60s just because people who were small children in the 60s entered the workforce

>>6196276
>I'm just bored and have been wondering about this topic for a while

So you write the essay you stupid prick.

>>6196284
>>6196269
I haven't written over 400_ pages of fanfiction in which hung lean and sky Ferrara are married ask me anything

>>6196326
>>6196326
Why are you so upset about a thread you didn't have to respond to in the first place?

>>6196295

the 80s were the 50s
the 90s were the 60s
now it's the 90s again

these things have an odd cycle
early 2000s-2010s had aspects of the 80s

Baudrillard

>>6196269
Who says I think that? Convince me it's true at all first.

>>6196340
I see your point and understand your logic but I still think its a bit of a shaky theory

For instance the 90s don't really seem similar to the 60s at all. If anything they are closer to the 70s

On top of that when does the cycle start? Did the 50s reference the 20s? Also what would gave caused this cycle and why does it continue to be perpetuated

>>6196370
>>6196370
Nobody said you think that I just meant if you see it the way I so I'd be interested to hear tour theory on its occurrence because I think its interesting but can't make sense of it

Sorry if my phrasing was misleading but I thought it was pretty clear

>>6196373
Nostalgia
Looking back at the "good old days"

Bitches please, half of you were born in the 1990's. Being a teenager in the 90's was fucking sweet. New genres of music everywhere you turned, abundant jobs, no fucking sandnogs blowing up shit everywhere, no fucking facebook, no genderbending bullshit, just gays and straights. It was freedom wrapped in abundance.

>>6196383
Nobody in this thread said it wasn't grandpa.

Good job starwmanning the present because you are dissatisfied with where you are in life and therefore can't escape the past

>>6196373

90s were way closer to the mid-late sixties than the 70s

counterculture, drugs, free love, political unrest

the cycle starts because people inherit their taste from their forebears and go on to pass their taste on to their spawn, so a definite generational cycle appears

>>6196402
So then why does the cycle not seem to appear before the 80s?

I understand the mechanics of it I just don't understand why it seems to suddenly arise out of nowhere sometime in the 80s and never being around before

>>6196392
Thanks, sonny.

Ya know, back in MY day, newfags like you knew their place.( just like the niggers did) I wish you could have seen it. No banana cancer, no furries, and we had all the internets we could eat. It was a fine time I tell us. We didn't have roflcoptors back then. We'd just dial up our friends on "billboards". (That's what the Internet was called in 1991, ya little shitstain) and we'd play turn based text adventures while not worrying about which dipshit was going to tell us to "check my dubs". Now I don't expect you to understand all of this, I mean where would you be today without your faux angst and autism level, scrEMO music? Tell me something junior, what the hell does "falling in reverse" even mean? Oh well. Your grampy's getting old and fat on all this wisdom and XP. You shoulda seen what 4chan was before little leg humpers like yourself came along. It was a beautiful I tell ya. You could get your CP whenever you asked for it and if OP said he was going to deliver, well maybe he would half the time. OP always was a fag. Ol Phil lociraptor would swing by from time to time and really get us thinkin about some wild stuff without having to look at a Bunch of posts from guys in dresses who think they're girls puttin things up their asses. Oh well, look at me rattling on like an old tin can. You go play now.

>>6196422
Because people are too afraid to take the steps to create new genres. It's safer to rehash the past and add post analog twist to it. The 80's seem exciting because you weren't around for them

>>6196383
Yup. Clinton may have been a liar, but life in America under him was the best it had been since the 60s.

>>6196442
I'm prepared to let the president get all the head in the world if it returns the jobs and abundance

>>6196442
>Clinton may have been a liar
Not to be a massive edgelord, but you're saying that as if not every US president in history has been caught in some kind of lie.

>>6196456
Ever heard of Honest Abe?

>>6196433
Top kek

>>6196460
Except him, of course.

>>6196383

kill yourself, slowly and painfully

>>6196269

sorry your thread got shit up so bad it had potential sorta

>>6196441

the 90's were FULL of fucking rehash bullshit what are you even on about?

>>6196566
Not so much. Your birth year, m'lady?

>>6196422

postmodern remix culture is a relatively new phenomenon, yes

>>6196269

OP

never thought about it this way
but i'm intrigued in your idea
do you wanna elaborate a little

>>6196612

Kurt Cobain said about Nevermind that it was 'basically just him trying to rip off of Pixies'. Detroit Techno and House music started in the late eighties. So did Disco and all the genres related. Ambient, which was the single most important predecessor of downtempo, trance and similiar genres started in the seventies, as did Punk. Post Punk and Gothic Rock are both from the eighties.

The 1990s were dominated by 'alternative rock', which is derivative of punk rock, post punk and new wave music, all which came from the eighties. I don't think I have to go in-depth as to why grunge is one of the most derivative genres ever coined.

The only really 'new' thing that the 90's brought were electronic microgenres like the ambient techno most WARP musicians pursued, even though acts like The KLF and The Orb were doing that sort of music in the late eighties.

tl;dr: you ain't know shit about genres. I was bornb '93, truly the 90's were amonst the most uneventful times this world has seen

>>6196733

your facts are good but what you're doing with them is wrong

kurt cobain ripping off of pixies doesn't really change how grunge defined the early 90s

of course things have historical predecessors,

but the point is not the musical compositions, it's the zeitgeist

>>6196269
20 year rule

>>6196768
Yeah. No shit. I've got kids shelling out 150 bucks a pop for my old JNCOS from 1997. Cha-Ching!

I was reading this interview with Giorgio Moroder and he said when he was making his music that he wanted to create a sound of the past that was also futuristic.
So he used all the influences from the 70's and 60's and 50's and he needed something futuristic so he used the synthesizer and this is how we get electronic dance music.

Everything is a rehash man.


I mean arent we due for a nu metal revival lol

it ain't, m8

>>6196269
The 2000s were much more interesting than the 90s

>>6196836
emos and hipsters.....im pretty sure everyone agrees the 2000's is when everything went to shit

>>6196833
>nu metal revival
i got good news or bad news depending on how you felt about nu metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezrVtBe6hAw

>>6196750

But I never doubted that grunge defined the early 90's, my initial statement was that the 90's brought very little if any 'new' genres and that those were mostly derivative.

A genre is nothing more but an idea inside of a critics/artists head until it gets popular. You will definitely find predecessors to the genres I listed from the 70s and 80s, but that is not the point. The point is that at some point in time some person saw similiar traits in multiple artists work significant enough for him to differ them from the genres currently known, hence him coining a 'new' genre. The 90s saw very little of that.

If you're trying to argue against my point atleast try to refute my points with mentions of genres coined in the 90s that aren't microgenres.

>>6196833

Giorgio Moroder, although incredibly relevant in the process of creating popular dance music, definitely is far from its sole creator

>>6196861

pleb found

https://youtube.com/watch?v=foyAOoVagWw

>>6196750
Despite the fact that both started in the 80s, the 90s saw a huge garage punk (edgy garage revival), psychobilly (edgy rockabilly revival), skacore (edgy ska revival) and 3rd wave punk (edgy 77 revival), not to mention all the old school hardcore bands that started appearing near the end of the decade.

Also, loads and loads of post-ironic 70s sitcom remakes, and I distinctly remember my first grade teacher telling us how "fashion goes in circles, this whole hippie chic trend is just a renewal of what your mothers used" to the girls in our classroom

>>6196861

kill yourself

>>6196864
I disagree that new genres werent created. Drum and bass, trance, and "hi-nrg" were spawned out of "electronica" which in itself was an anomaly

>>6196861
Emos existed since the mid 90s
"Hipster" is a buzzword
Come back once you're more than 16 and saw these trends come and go or reappear in a new nifty package

>>6196873
>electronica
not a genre

>>6196873

Well, I disagree.

Drum 'n Bass music started precisely with the 'Amen Break', probably the single most important sample in the history of sampling, which was more or less the basis for all modern dnb music, source:

"It gained fame from the 1980s onwards when four bars (6 seconds) sampled from the drum-solo (or imitations thereof) became very widely used as sampled drum loops in breakbeat, hip hop, breakbeat hardcore, hardcore techno and breakcore, drum and bass (including oldschool jungle and ragga jungle), and digital hardcore music.[1] The Amen Break was used extensively in early hiphop and sample-based music, and became the basis for drum-and-bass and jungle music—"a six-second clip that spawned several entire subcultures." It is one of the most sampled loops in contemporary electronic music and arguably the most sampled drum beat of all time.[2]"

Once again, The KLF, which I already mentioned earlier, were thought of as creating the first 'trance music track' per se and that was in the late 80's:

The earliest reference to 'trance' in modern dance music is British act The KLF on their 1988 track What Time Is Love (Pure Trance 1), on which the record sleeve is also annotated 'Pure Trance'.[11]


You could've atleast checked Wikipedia.

My point wasn't even that the 90's had no new genres at all, because there were some, but you failed to name even one:

'Hi-NRG (pronounced "high energy")[2] is a style of uptempo disco or electronic dance music that originated in the United States and United Kingdom during the late 1970s.'

Hello?..

>>6196864

i just think you're missing that

something being central to the culture and something merely existing are very different things,

it completely changes the artist's level of confidence, which e.g. changes the tone in which they express what they want to express

how openly or how confidently they express an emotion etc

the work becomes different
originality is one criterion but it's not the only one, nor is it definitive

like i understand that tool is rehash
but radiohead isn't, or massive attack, etc
nirvana

>>6196269

But I don't think that. If it were true, then there would be little reason to not suggest that every decade is a simulacrum, or at least facsimile, of the previous, which is absurd because you can't bracket ten years and compare/contrast it to the immediate ten years before and/or after as if they are completely different eras, just like you can't safely or accurately say when the Cambrian began or when walkman's were no longer cool.

>>6196874
well dont you have sand in your vagina.
Emo music and aesthetic became very mainstream in the early 2000's, then in the mid 2000's we get inde rock with mgmt, vampire weekend, arcade fire, fag shit like that.
Then in the late 2000's early teens was the rise of EDM and wubstep.

>>6196959

popular music has been mostly shite and it's been this way for decades, maybe you'll realise this once you get out of highschool you drooling moronic wronggenerashun faggot, top kek

>>6196886
But it wasn't known or recognized until later. For fucks sake. That's it. I'm coming to your house to break all your Black Keys records, so the shit will stop flowing to your brain.
Ha! And the captcha was "fairy" so deal with that

>>6196993
when did i say it was better?
when did i say i was born in the wrong generation?

let me guess, you were born in le right generation?

>>6196959
Emo "aesthetic" were a million of things, and the way you're looking at it sure looks like someone who has enough distance to understand is a progression.

The reality is that the early 00s "alternative" scene (stuff like The Strokes, the Hives, the Detroit bands, Arcade Fire, the Killers) was happening hand in hand with the pop punk / metalcore bullshit (Alexisonfire, Good Charlotte, Dashboard Confessional) and there was even overlap between both scenes (Muse, Death Cab for Cutie, At the Drive In, etc.)

I distinctly remember, when I was getting into classic punk, those things you considered separate movements were stuck together as "indie crap" ("emo bullshit" came later, actually, specially since there were still people attached to the Dischord emo boom of the late 90s).

So,don't pretend you're older than you are.

>>6196269
Because our generation experienced their last naivety in the 90s. As >>6196284 said, we're now entering reality.

So we reach back to the last time we felt alright and create an artificial world out of these things to escape into. The 90s are our security blanket.

>>6197019
Emo is just goth without the balls to go "all out"

>>6196269
>Write a short essay on why you think the United States has culturally become a simulacrum of the 90s
Why the 90s specifically? The tornado of simulacra is not limited to any specific age, you have people trying to revive traditional paganism.

>>6196269
The 90s were the last age of "relaxed anxiety". After 9/11 and similar shit everything become more serious and ironic at the same time, cynicism became poisonous, destructive, and inescapable whereas before it was more of an anxiety medicine.
So there's a desperate return to that age because it feels so close to us yet more relaxed.

>>6196269
>all the social media drama
>social justice enforced everywhere
>YA shit dominating music/video
Sure is 90s

>>6197019
Is it bad that the strokes are still my favorite band

The late 90s was an economic high point. Then the economy took a dip in 2001, recoverd for a while then crashed again in 2007. The last crash was so drastic that it's unlike the US will ever relive the prosperity of these years. A lot of people look back on them fondly.

Entertainment reached a high point as well in the 90s pretty much across the board, at least in terms of success. Children's cartoons went from 30 minute toy commercials like Transformers and GI Joe, to cartoons for their own sake (Ren and Stimpy, Rocko's Modern Life). Music Videos became more important than radio and MTV started producing its own original shows (everything from Beavis and Butthead to The Real World). Video games went from 2D to 3D. Movies started incorporating CGI, and we even got full 3D movies (Toy Story). Pro-wrestling became one of the biggest sectors of the entertainment era where giant companies were battling over who could get the biggest audience. Sit-coms reached a new level of quality with the creation of Seinfeld, one of the most criticaly acclaimed shows of all time. Harry Potter sparked one of the most successful book franchises of all time, not to mention the YA industry boom, which is still ongoing. No matter where you looked in the culture it seemed everything had reached a high water mark.

None of these industries are as lucrative as they were then, and whether it's the appeal or the quality that's declined, it's easy to see the 90s as a nostalgic golden age. It's understandable that the entertainment industry is stuck trying to re-create these successful years in any way they can.

>>6196373
>they are closer to the 70s
there was a moment where retro 60s happened in the 90s. dee lite etc. but there was 80s nights already and they were popular. i think we are in a neverending hoge-poge of styles, nothing really takes the lead

>>6196873

Grunge became popularized out of groups such as Melvins and Black Flag and Swans' Cop album

Hip hop slow started involving heavy sampling, resampling/plundering became mainstream

Jazz undertones resurfaced in a lot of hip hop as well

Math Rock largely hit out from the first wave post-hardcore scene

Groups like Talk Talk, Gastr Del Sol, Cul De Sac, Slint all formed the first wave of Post Rock and post-Kraut experimental electronic rock

Early sludge, noise music, and pop coagulated into early Shoegaze and Noise Pop which led to groups such as MBV, Stereolab, the scene that celebrated itself in england, etc.

Second wave and experimental black metal, extreme metal split out and influenced everything around it

Guitar Primitivism resurged in the works of Cul De Sac and Gastr Del Sol, Primitivism in general revived a following


... and this is just the early 90s

>>6196373
Yeah, the 90s are the 70s all over again and the 2010s were kind of like a reboot of the 80s with the bright colored fashion and all of that shit.

>>6196460
He was gay. Not so honest about everything

>>6196422
mass media

>>6196733
>the 90's were amonst the most uneventful times this world has seen

a thing we forget is that "fusion" thing that is so played out these days , like hip-hop and folk, that was shockingly new back then.

>>6197385

uh genre eclecticism actually wasn't a new thing then, even in mainstream music

- Chamber Folk movement of the 60s and 70s
- Zappa's Jazz/Rock/Serialism/Showtunes crossovers
- Electronic experimentation from composers such as Stockhausen wedded Rock throughout the early to mid 70s
- Jazz-Rock became a thing in the 60s and was a major driving force of the 70s

>>6197289
vwave already dead

>>6197407

yeah but it lives on in the breathtaking works of Sad Boy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMgkt9jdjTU

>>6196277
It literally means simulated lactation. Usually it connotes a lack of nutrition in something appearing substantive, be it food, culture, knowledge, or belief.

It's also more or less an analogy drawn directly in theme from postlapsarian sin and disunion with the "essence." Only it's been smarted up with some less metaphysical language

>>6196422
>>6196422
Because you weren't alive and haven't studied American pop culture (or any post industrial pop culture, for they matter).

These cycles are nothing new

It's very fringe, /x/ish stuff, but you guys should check the Sekhment hypothesis

ask him

I don't understand the question, and therefore I won't answer.

>>6196373
I agree that there is no strict pattern, but there were aspects of the 20s in 50s culture.

>>6196269
Niggers and jews are bad news.

There's your essay, now go hand it in.

>>6196269
>simulacrum
>using a 500 year old word
Get with the times, pleb.

why is everyone accepting this as truth? did I miss something? why would one think that usa has culturally become a simulacrum of the 90s?

>>6196373
Swap mdma with lsd and the 90's becomes the 60's.

>>6198411
...or DMT and it becomes now, and our comics are dirtier and everything.

bamp

>>6196334

Cause he wants to be a janitor so bad that it hurts, but they reject his application every time.

>>6196285
someone read Baudrillard (;

I don't want to be the guy on the internet looking at correct grammar, but I think it is safe to assume that everyone who put the apostrophe S on a decade is still in high school and therefore doesn't understand the depth of what the 90s offered.