/lit/ - Literature

This is literally the dumbest post I've ever seen on the entirety of 4chan.

>>4787784
You clearly haven't looked at your own.

My 11th grade English teacher had us study some of Tupac's lyrics once. I personally enjoyed it, being able to see into the life of a man and a culture less privileged and accepted than mine. Lines from some of the better rappers truly are poetic, and have allusions to the poets of 1930's Harlem like Langston Hughes.

>>4787763
>Bob Dylan was the 60's answer to Hemingway

>>4788059
There are literary studies of Dylan now too...

What's with this pro-rap sentiment on /lit/ anyway?

99.999% of Rap is trite drivel, get the fuck out pleb.

>>4788082
How do you actually believe this?

>>4787763
It is not true, so it does not particularly make me feel anything. Rappers will be studied in music courses, because they are musicians.

>>4788082
>i have never listened to rap but black people make me nervous

>>4788082

>not liking this

>>4788088
How do you not?

>niggerspeak
>English class

lel

>>4788082
rap is a vocal style you pleb, hip hop is the genre.

>>4787823

This is the most white suburban middle-class liberal post ever.

>>4788110

Poe's law?
This is just ironically reaffirming what he said.

>>4787763
are people studying cheap pop from the '50s as poetry?

>>4788088
>>4788110
>yo niggaz whi u on my dik i pop a cap in yo ass i fuck bitches all day err day bitches lick my lollipop so much pussy i got lots of money and drive fast cars and do lots of drugs and im from the streets and when i was on the streets dudes popped cap in each others asses and did lots of drugs but they didnt have much money and only get an average amount of pussy respect this.

No but I for one get that some rap has artistic merit. That is true of practically every medium. However, I wouldn't say 99.9999 but like 98% is utter garbage

>>4788150
No, maybe 98% of the hip hop you've listened to is garbage.

>>4787763
They did this in my high school. The only problem was finding clean rap songs.

>>4788064
There were literary studies of Dylan when his best works were still contemporary.

>>4787763
It's ok, since humanity will be extinct in 40 years.

>>4787763
>in 50-100 years
>studying
>English Classes

>>4787823
Except you aren't supposed to enjoy it because that would be appropriation, honkie.

You know what the oddest thing about 2pac is? His songs, when read as poetry, were much better than what were actually published as his "official" poems.

>>4788088
>>4788099

I doubt any of you actually kid yourself that rap lyrics are worthy of anything other than derision. You just think that it's the 'progressive' and open-minded thing to say.

>50-100 years
>English language

mrci yankee

>>4788319
slm

*tips fedora*

>>4788237
2pac is highly overrated, I don't even know why the "Le wrong generation" types flaunt him as having deep or good lyrics when 90% of the time it's the same old ""doin' gangsta stuff" things but not in a particularly creative way like with other rappers. He also uses way too many features, spells song titles like they should be on a box of Reese's Puffs, and has corny production.

But on OP's claim, 0/10. Not even mildly rused, but I like that you intentionally chose a terrible lyricist like de la Rocha (LATIN AMERICANS ARE UNDERREPRESENTED IN GOVERNMENT, THEREFORE HITLER is all RATM is. It's like what a 10th grade anarchist would write in the margins of their math homework.) to represent "hip hop lyrics as a important field of study".
>>4788272
>I'm too stupid to think of anything else to say, so I'll just call my opponent nigger lovers! That'll show them!

>>4788121
I wish it wasn't called "hip hop". It sounds like a game for preschoolers.

I always thought americans already analyzed rap lyrics in school. I just keep assuming you guys have a well-rounded contemporary education for some reason.

I say go ahead, there's definitely time to teach both hip hop and contemporary poetry. Just be careful when implementing it, the good stuff might hurt right-wing sensibilities and teachers will be forced to show kids crap like Saul Williams and Common instead.

>>4788375
I don't understand why people see rap music as contemporary poetry,
Most Hip Hop lyricism, even the best of it, is noly great because of the wordplay,l with MCs like Doom, but honestly the storytelling and emotion in hip hop is just really lacking in comparison to other genres, and sure other genres are full of weak, contrived bullshit as well, but the good examples, in my opinion, shine through brighter than any of the best hip hop examples I know of, not to say better examples aren't out there, however.

>>4788352
>2pac is highly overrated,
I never said otherwise, just that his lyricism in his songs was better than his published poetry.

>>4788412
>I don't understand why people see rap music as contemporary poetry,
I don't understand why people think the terms art, poetry, cinema, music, etc has any bearing on quality.

>in 50-100 years, kids will be studying Yurope: the American Invasion in their English classes instead of Crime and Punishment.

>>4788352
OP here, I mainly chose de la Rocha because for some reason he was the only rapper pic I had on my PC. And yes I agree his lyrics suck.

To >>4788093, that's like saying Shakespeare should only be studied in drama classes. Sure it is music, but it's also spoken poetry.

And yes, I agree that 99% of rap is common-denominator trash, but to continue my analogy, so were 99% of theater companies in shakespeare's era.

I feel that rap will be studied as a significant turn-of-the-century literary movement for a couple reasons.
1) Contemporary poetry is largely shit, and--more importantly--it has zero cultural impact. I admit to being not very well-versed in contemporary poets, but it's hard to imagine they would be relevant 100 years from now when they are irrelevant today, even by academia's standards.
2) Rap is still a nascent art-form. Nobody can deny that in the last 25 years the genre has birthed several real gems. But as it--as a genre/movement--continues to develop I believe the gap between highbrow and lowbrow rappers will only continue to widen as the craft is refined.

>>4788412

While only some are have really ventured into the area of great storytelling through their album, the reason why people regard it as a form of poetry doesn't have to entail storytelling. What's really great about poetry as an art form is the authors ability over language, including its line structure, use of descriptive words and overall wordplay. That's something heralded as the top quality of some of the greatest rappers like Biggie

>>4788150
>I listen to shitty music which must mean everybody else does to

You don't realize it but you're embarrassing yourself right now

People in 50-100 years won't even know what poetry is.

>>4787763
Yeah but kids already have to study Beatles lyrics, so I'd say it would be a vast improvement.

I scream at existence, it answers with silence
I silenced the questions with outbursts of violence
I'm lost in the maze where I find my reality
I triumph on self defeat and beat myself gradually
I drove myself mad, searching for sanity
I lost my way home while exploring the galaxies
I'm fueling these fires that burn my mentality
My muse is abuse and a long road of tragedies
I drown in the depths of my bitter self knowledge
I used all my bravery trying to have courage
I seek for forgiveness, but beg to be punished
I fight for my freedom while chained to these gutters
I find all my comforts in deep insecurities
Spoil what's beautiful looking for impurities
I'm buried in the lies trying to live my life truthfully
I sail my ship alone and I'm still having mutinies
I'm wearing a disguise hiding from the phonies
I'm hiding from myself, but I'm scared of being lonely
My world's like a cell God created just to hold me
My life's like a game where my death is the trophy

Chester p - The wickerman theory

OK then..

>>4788082
You could say the same of any medium or style.

>>4788598
I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
It mine, I spend it,
It mine, I spend it,
I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
It mine, I spend it,
It mine, I spend it,
I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
It mine, I spend it,
It mine, I spend it,
I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
It mine, I spend it,
It mine, I spend it,
I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
It mine, I spend it,
It mine, I spend it,

2chainz - poet

Rap = Videogames

Both at the moment are in their infancy, and have yet to produce someone TRULY great (though I thought das racist were gonna get there...) Videogames as they are, are shit - no question about it - this is because they exist at a time of truly rampant capitalism, just like rap music, so both reflect the economic base that they are lying upon.

I doubt they will ever become true, proper art forms, and only shitty english classes will attempt to teach rap music above poetry, so if you're in one of those, you've already lost.

I have done essays on Wu-tang, OFWGKTA, Geto Boys, Bone Thugs, etc... but hiphop as viewed by academia is just a trendy way to connect to kids to get more funding. Hiphop for the most part is unadulterated shit, still love the genre.

Go listen to Yung Lean tho

>>4788598
>>4789318
Put one up for shackle me not, clean logic procreation
I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent
While the triple sixers' lassos keep angels roped in the basement
I walk the block with a halo on a stick, poking your patience
Y'all catch a thirty second flash visual
Dirty cooperative med platoon, bloom, head-trip split ridiculous
Fathom the splicing of first generation fuck up
With trickle down anti-hero smack (Kraken!)
I pace me game for zero hour completion cretin, splash
Duke of early retirement picket dream
American nightmare hogging the screen
I'll hold the door open so you can stumble in
If you'd stop following me around the jungle gym
Now it's honor and I spell it with the 'H' I stole from heritage
Merit crutched on the wretched refuse from my teeming resonance
I promise temperance towards breed with a leaning conscious
See, the creed accents responsive but my spores divorced the wattage
And I'm sleeping now (Wow!) Yeah, the settlers laugh
You won't be laughing when your covered wagons crash
You won't be laughing when the buzzards drag your brother's flags to rags
You won't be laughing when your front lawn is spangled with epitaphs
(You won't be laughing!) Then I'll hang my boots to rest when I'm impressed
So I triple knot them then I forgot them
His origami dream is beautiful, but man, those wings will never leave the ground
Without a feather and a lottery ticket, now settle down

Nah, that won't happen. Older literature is already denigrated for shitting on women, they aren't going to be studying rap.

>>4789378
That is shit poetry

>>4787823

Classicist vs contemporary popularist of artistc significance

>>4789451
You are worse than trash.

>you're gonna hear me rooooo-a-a-a-a-ar
>rooooo-a-a-a-a-ar
>rooooo-a-a-a-a-ar
>okay class, knowing what I taught you about pre-fourth wave feminism, what is the roar a metaphor for?
>Please post your 50 word essays on this topic to the school's internet homework zone.
>dont hire any Californian refugees to write your paper for you, I check with the NSA to be sure

I'm barely there, I'm everywhere
Heavy thin air, Sahara mascara smeared, end of an era
Tracks on Hera's peacock thighs, china white skies, ivory of my leper eyes
Tone of sighs off nylon lips
(Where you runnin' now?)
In fishnet wet guise of gimp horizon, slit bled like my wrist I suck it dry
Which nipple's mine? Read the signs, still can't decide
(At your own risk) At your own risk
Don't touch me bitch! (Don't touch me, bitch)
(Where you runnin' now?)
Accustomed to these satin glitches, drippin' from my casket's innards
Charmer play me out the basket, last image I saw was splintered
My reflection, I wasn't in it, in slow motion, I give in
(Where you runnin now?)
Hopeless premonitions
Tomorrow didn't come, some say it's hiding, but they're the ones who've hidden
Euphoria followed by visions of peasants eating pigeons
(Where you runnin' now?)

>>4788330
as

>>4787763
>not understanding race theory or any critical theory for that matter
muh euro influenced ideology

Rap is just as capable of having literary merit as lyrics from any other genre of music. Rap isn't the only form of music that uses lyrics written as or similar to poetry.

>>4789359
>only shitty English classes

http://courses.georgetown.edu/index.cfm?Action=View&CourseID=SOCI-124

>>4789638
>Euphoria followed by visions of peasants eating pigeons
That's entertaining.

>>4788137
what exactly is
>suburban middle-class liberal
supposed to mean?

In my German high-school English classes, we once studied Black Steel In The Hour Of Chaos for one lesson. Shit was rad.

>>4789649
But no other genre has such an emphasis on poetic devices

>>4789972
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqIsc8ooXug

>rappers of today
>pic of Zack de la Rocha

Cracka detected.

>>4789318
>I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
>I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
>It mine, I spend it,
>It mine, I spend it,
>I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
>I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
>It mine, I spend it,
>It mine, I spend it,
>I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
>I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
>It mine, I spend it,
>It mine, I spend it,
>I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
>I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
>It mine, I spend it,
>It mine, I spend it,
>I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
>I'm ridin' round and gettin' it
>It mine, I spend it,
>It mine, I spend it,
>2chainz - poet

2chainz is infinitely more fun than ~50% of the books posted on this board.

as long as they include asap ferg, whose integration of jamaican patois into nyc trap (which was already an appropriation itself) is fucking brilliant. i could bullshit like a fifty page paper on that man.

>>4789999

Fake patois in rap is old news though, esp. in NYC rap. Das Racist had a track about it.

I like Ferg though.

>>4789980
Zach de la Rocha is actually pretty respected in hip hop, he's gotten shout outs from Pusha T, Mos Def, and MF Doom.

>>4790005
i didn't say he did it first. i just think he does it particularly well. never listened to das racist tho.

>>4790012

I think the point was more than RATM was "rap today" like 20 years ago

This thread needs more ghostbusters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMCgOKkOAUU

If the current trend of anti-intellectualism in america continues, this will probably be accurate.

>>4790032
>current trend of anti-intellectualism

Everyone everywhere has always been dumb, generally speaking. It's just that we live in a society which, in principle, values every person's dumb opinion. And developments in communication make it easier to broadcast those opinions.

>>4787763
No they won't.

>>4790046

It's not getting worse.

>On March 24, 2014 at the Cross Examination Debate Association (CEDA) Championships at Indiana University, two Towson University students, Ameena Ruffin and Korey Johnson, became the first African-American women to win a national college debate tournament, for which the resolution asked whether the U.S. president’s war powers should be restricted. Rather than address the resolution straight on, Ruffin and Johnson, along with other teams of African-Americans, attacked its premise. The more pressing issue, they argued, is how the U.S. government is at war with poor black communities.

>In the final round, Ruffin and Johnson squared off against Rashid Campbell and George Lee from the University of Oklahoma, two highly accomplished African-American debaters with distinctive dreadlocks and dashikis. Over four hours, the two teams engaged in a heated discussion of concepts like “nigga authenticity” and performed hip-hop and spoken-word poetry in the traditional timed format. At one point during Lee’s rebuttal, the clock ran out but he refused to yield the floor. “Fuck the time!” he yelled. His partner Campbell, who won the top speaker award at the National Debate Tournament two weeks later, had been unfairly targeted by the police at the debate venue just days before, and cited this personal trauma as evidence for his case against the government’s treatment of poor African-Americans.


http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/does-traditional-college-debate-reinforce-white-privilege/360746/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFbQftMe6qY

Yes, this is from /pol/

>>4790046
Say we're exposed to 80 dumb comments a day, and 20 smart ones, because 80% of people are dumb. If communication doubles the rate you're exposed to comments, you now have 160 dumb ones and 40 smart ones every day.

While dumb people are still only 80% of the population, the overall dumbness has increased much more than the overall smartness.

The proportion of our day filled with dumbness is increasing faster than the proportion filled with smartness.

You can call this Anon's Law

>>4790060

I actually read that earlier today, but I'd forgot about it. Nobody was really being anti-intellectual here... the contestants just acted like clowns (they knew exactly what they were doing), and the organizers didn't see a problem with it because they probably felt like racial justice was being served or some silly shit like that.

I'm sure /pol/ pissed their britches when they found this.

>>4790060
Reading this article gives me a headache

if it extends to lyrics too i don't see the problem

>>4790091
>You can call this Anon's Law

>>4790091
>While dumb people are still only 80% of the population, the overall dumbness has increased much more than the overall smartness.
>The proportion of our day filled with dumbness is increasing faster than the proportion filled with smartness.

I think the difference is that I'm strictly looking at dumbness in terms of people's mental faculties. You're taking a broader view and talking about its manifestations in social media in the like. Going by your definition, I agree that we're being exposed to a higher volume of dumbness now than we maybe were several decades ago.

>>4790116

*and the like

lots of typos today

>>4790091
10/10 post

Anon's law.. will remember that one.

>>4790091
cheers

>>4788319
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AblL7GXpUQ

People will do thesis on Teki's part.

>>4790603
mein bro

parles-tu le français?

j'apprends le français depuis deux semestres. j'aime l'atelier et hocus pocus

>>4790631
Es-tu homo?

>>4789451
What the fuck does a /pol/ tard read?

>>4788218
Fucking Dylan again. Does the cocksucking ever end?

>>4790603
I don't like l'Atelier that much but Batards Sensibles is one of the most underrated rap albums of all time. the production on it is fucking gorgeous too

>>4788352
>spells song titles like they should be on a box of Reese's Puffs

I was thinking about why they do this, and I realized that it might be a way of casting off or subverting the constraints of whiteboy's rule. WASP English is very specific in the way it should be employed and, if their spelling is a conscious choice to, they steal the modes of English while subverting them at once. It's like they're doing what Elvis did to them, and before that the blues that were 'borrowed' from them, they're using a style of communication in their own way and for their own ends. But I'm just talking out of my ass

>>4790683
I'm reading Foucault now
It's a bunch of stupid horse shit, btw.

>>4790631

A vrai dire, je suis français. Tu envisages des études en rapport avec le français ou bien c'est surtout une option ?
Sinon, tu devrais écouter >>4790764
>Batards Sensibles
par TTC. C'est plus violent et cru, mais cet album vaut très largement le coup.

Ah, et renseigne-toi sur Peste Noire, leurs textes et leur "philosophie". Famine (l'alter-ego du chanteur) est quelqu'un de fascinant.

>>4790774
Wait, then I realized that you could argue that for any number of spelling retardations. Then I reached rational ecstasy. Also I'm Mexican. So watching the tension between whiteboy and blacklad is a giggle.

your prediction is based on too much television and internet. you know nothing.

it's like seeing a jackass oblivious to himself predict all this idiotic shit. you want to tell him what he's doing but you know it won't do any good because he's too goddamn stupid. he might say he knows what you're getting at if you tell him this but he will never understand until he's over 30, shakes his head at himself in the mirror and says, ah well. I was young and stupid and said stupid things. that's life. glad I'm not that anymore. yes, I won't be around to see it but when it does come around just know that it's part of growing up and you'll shrug off that memory and go about your business and there's nothing wrong with that.

>>4790776
you admit to being one? How is your white supremacy working out for you?

>>4790895
considering women are whining on patriarchy and asians, latinos and blacks about affirmative action and inequality i'd say good

>>4790895
also I love the way my cumwhite skin looks under the light of my prejudice

>>4790914
Whoa, that edge, tiger. I don't know what you were trying to communicate, but you sound like a psychopath.

Are you wearing a fedora by any chance? Maybe combat boots?

>>4790912
we must we live in such a world

>also I love the way my cumwhite skin looks under the light of my prejudice

I guess your obsession with cum is understandable when you bashed women too. I noticed you didn't bash homosexuals. I think it's cool that you're homo but that's hypocritical to be both gay and have these prejudices, right?

>>4790998
>Le snarky commie faec xD

I'm not him but you're pretty much conceding. Faggot.

>>4790998
Retard. You do know that cut contains the seed of life? We were born of it, and the fact that it's white says something...

>>4791019
conceding to what? not sure what you're talking about. I was a different anon than >>4790981

I like that you imagine stuff then roll with it to make yourself feel good. I think that's a valuable tool. especially if you're dense, slightly aware of it, and have low self esteem. good for you.

>>4791045
"NOU"

>>4791037
*cum
motherfucking filthy autocorrect

>>4791037
I could talk about the brown earth and how we're all worm food eventually. you can connect coincidental shit all day. oh..m-m-my cum is white and so is jimmy's cum and it's so delicious so white people must be #1 masta race 4eva

>>4791037
>>4791086
stop this idiot shit right now wtf are you doing

>>4787763
What the fuck is going here? Is this /b/?

>>4791086
But that's the thing it's not coincidental. Take a biology course and learn, faggot. Post all the stupid sparky images you want, idgaf

>>4791121
Goddammit snarky ***ff**

>>4791097
>mfw when I jump in this thread and post one comment about white supremacy

Later see thread again, butt hurt levels got so high so posters started having detailed discussion about white cum and brown earth.

>mfw

ITT: we learn of the existence of cumwhite supremacy

>>4790060
I read that article the day it was published and it was hard for me to see those as anything other than emotional screaming matches.

I think we might have looked at some of Tupac's lyrics in 8th grade but it didn't do much for me. My life was fucking changed when I discovered Alexander Pope though.

"To me what nature in charms has deny'd,
Is well by wit's more lasting flame supplied."

>>4788059
>>4788064

weighing arguments of "is dylan literary", i think ultimately that he is. It's defensible to say that his words and work equalled and surpassed those of his primary influences, Rimbaud, Kerouac, etc. and his cultural influence was almost unimaginable

>>4791679
>Rimbaud
I definitely agree with about most of his influences, but I'm hard pressed to agree Dylan surpassing Rimbaud.

>>4791684
This seriously, have you ever read Rimbaud ? The guy is not just "earnest rebellious teenager". Infinitely dirtier, more unsettling and smarter.

Although Dylan is certainly not bad, he doesn't compare, poetry-wise.
>>4790091
>The proportion of our day filled with dumbness is increasing faster than the proportion filled with smartness.

Going by your example, it hasn't. You just multiplied both numbers by 2, there's no reason the ratio would change.
So yeah, anon's law all you want, but first keep your explanation not obviously faulty.

>>4791728
>earnest rebellious teenager
I'm the poster you're replying to and obviously agree Dylan just doesn't stack up against Rimbaud (he's probably the best of the Beats/those directly influenced by the Beats) but to say Dylan can be simply categorized as an earnest rebellious teenager is over-simplifying his works. Blood on the Tracks is arguably one of his best works and is very bluntly the work of someone who's aged a bit, mentally.

>>4787763
Imply all rap sounds like lil wayne?

4owls, angle haze, capital steez, mf doom
just to name a few

if you don't know any good rap/hiphop it is because you are a main stream pleb or a musically changed emo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPCCc1vPFFo

>>4791753
>changed emo
maybe
>challenged emo

>check√

>>4791753
this is pretty bad bro

>>4790895
Is this supposed to be insulting?

>>4791767
lyrically or musically?

does rap ever adhere to "sounding good"?
should that guideline really be a factor that hinders musical expression?

>>4791742
Well, that's not what I meant (though I admit the my wording was confusing). Rimbaud, Kerouac and Dylan are generally associated together as being part of the "earnest rebellious teenager" category of artist. It absolutely doesn't fit for Rimbaud (who was extremely radical and opportunistic, certainly not your typical rainbow kid). I don't think it fits for Dylan either. But Dylan survived past forty, so that may be why. As for Kerouac, I have no idea.

>>4787823

tupac read a fuckload. His mother made him read the new yorker as punishment when he was younger.
so a lot of his work could be traced back to literature that influenced him, if this is what OP was wondering about.

>contemporary poetry
The free verse shit that exists today isn't poetry

Man English classes in 50 years will be devoted to teaching fifty or sixty immigrant children the most basic grammar and vocabulary.

Unless you mean at a private school. I can't wait for literacy to go back to a middle ages level so when I call someone a pleb it will be literally true and not just a sarcastic 4chan joke. I wonder what it will be like living behind barbed wire and machine guns manned by blackwater mercs? I hope the art galleries and libraries are at least somewhat salvaged and moved to safer locations.

Seriously imagine south africa/namibia in the 80s and just project that to wherever you live in fifty years.

>>4792512
>muh slippery slope

We don't have a nation of readers. Television and web celebs are taking over. Finding someone that can get through a 500 page book that is not some piece of entertainment or genre trash is going to be on the same scale of rarity as finding someone that can play the piano well.

>>4792426
By the time a student makes it to college all the curiosity that they had has been killed. So even though a "cool person" was well read and inspired by fiction doesn't mean the normal college or high school student will take to reading those books that inspired the work.

>>4787763

I wouldn't be so sure...

>>4791742
I've enjoyed Blood On The Tracks more than anything of Rimbaud's.

>>4792512
I'll start on my "Fall of the Republic" right now.

>>4792560
Slippery slope is such a bullshit fallacy. Humans aren't math. They get accustomed and take more. When someone responds to obvious social problems by saying "Slippery Slope!" And nothing else it's a good indicator that they are a moron, and have no original thoughts in their empty little heads. The jews are quite proud of themselves for this one.

>>4794270
And little kids like candy more than bouillabaisse but one is still clearly better than the other.

>>4787815
No he's right, this is the new pinnacle of retarded OP, nice work.

yea everyfin is da same each hundred years but jus more modern innit

great

"Now here's the meat:
I can't count 40 fat women in spandex
power walking circles around me as I
stare at a deserted baseball field,
writing a rap in red pen on the back
of a printed e-mail folded twice.
Hot, dog."

>>4794277
Agreed. Though, the trick is not to assume that 'x' will happen due to allowing 'y'. But instead to suggest that if 'y' is allowed then there will be no logical argument, given the acceptance of 'y', against the eventual implementation of 'x'.