/lit/ - Literature

He's just a shit poet

>>4777682
A large part of his poetry is shit, I'll admit. His short stories and novels are something else though.

>>4777698
Care to explain why you feel that way? I hated Factotum, but maybe you can convince me to give Buko's 'fiction' another shot.

>>4777705
Ham on Rye is ok if you had a shitty childhood or were just a bastard in general

>>4777705
Factotum is his worst. Ham on rye and Women are way better.

But I like his poetry very much, more than his prose, actually. He wrote so many poetry that there are a lot of shit works. But when the good is good, it gives me the feels.

Not the guy you responded, btw.

Why do people make him out to be some hero and idol?
He is such a shit person.
I did like his books though, poetry was shit and the only people I know who really dug it were try hards.

>>4777705
Not the anon you responded to, but Factotum was the first Bukowski novel I read, and I really disliked it at the time. I totally get where you're coming from.

But then I read Post Office and it was so relatable. His writing style (his stories and novels, at least) has a complete lack of pretense; for some this might be off-putting, but I really appreciate it and think it works fantastically. It might just be because of my background, but it gives a really great view of the working class lifestyle relating to people who strive to be above it. I'm a little drunk so it's hard to put into words, but in Post Office I found something that spoke to me in ways that other books hadn't...It's not the deepest book ever written, by any means; hell, the writers he name drops, like Fante or Celine, kick his ass around the block on most fronts. I know how lame this sounds, but there's something very real about Post Office (at least to me).

I moved on from there. I really recommend Ham on Rye and Hollywood. I then went back to Factotum and now I love it. Hell, I even love Pulp; really hilarious book. His poetry...well, I think some of it is good, but a lot of it isn't worth the time. It's weird because most people I know think that he was an amazing poet and sucked a prose, while I feel the opposite, to an extent.

He's a bit of a polarizing figure. It's intensified by the fact that Bukowski has been a hipster idol since I was in high school (graduated '03) and even before that; the internet has clung to his quotes and his fanbase makes his stuff seem really obnoxious. I really recommend giving Post Office a shot, though.

>>4777722
he was bum and general piece of shit who dealt with lifes bullshit and did what he loved (booze, women and writing) until he finally hit paydirt at 40. It gives people hope that it can all turn around. He's like a literary zyzz if that reference is familiar

>>4777711
Sorry, I should explain why. I'm not the person you responded to either.
I liked Ham on Rye for its combination of despair and defiance, which is kind of a cliche but it didn't come across that way to me. The feeling of being surrounded by shitty people and probably being shitty yourself yet still fighting against it. People get into it for the outrageous parts about sex and stuff but that doesn't really define his writing, or at least not what I've read (which is only Ham on Rye and some poems).

I've been trying to avoid the recent flood of garbage dumpster level Bukowski threads that have cropped up, but maybe appearing will help /lit/ out. Sorry in advance /lit/ for any Buttkowskis that might reply and for dragging this to the front page.

Just like a lot of atheists say the best way to de-convert from Christianity is to actually sit down and honestly read the bible as an adult, I feel the same way for Bukowski novels. The problem is people often read him as teenagers or as very (actual) young adults. Those that still love him into adulthood have this nostalgia for the feeling he once gave them when they were young, thus creating the delusion that he is good and should be respected. He is basically the beats Palahniuk (and even though I think Palahniuk is total edgy garbage, I still feel like Palahniuk is a much better writer so sorry for spitting on you Chuck).

So, if an adult (or someone whom wants to be considered one) honestly sits down with a Bukowski novel like Ham on Rye or Post Office, and once again is honest with him/her/itself they will notice that Bukowski is a really bad writer. The only reason for liking him is "my nostalgia/personal feelings" (Please note: Personal feelings include "I just like it!", other personal preference defenses, and the idea that you can do a mediocre job and be famous and beloved) or because he is considered a a grave offensive crime to the written word, er, I mean "modern classic" by some combined with the fact that a 10 year old can comprehend the whole novel on one read. Disclaimer: I'm not implying that complex words and deep-seated meanings are a need be to make a good novel. I'm saying your best works are "so easy a caveman could do it" (Hm, Bukowski does look caveman-ish...) level. All of which makes people feel entitled to say "Oh yeah, I read good lit like Bukowski, Kerouac, BEE, and Palahniuk. My favorite novels are Post Office and Fight Club, all modern classics."

>>4777680
>people who dislike Bukowski just ain't bout that life and can only identify with middle class shit.

I'm willing to assume that it's most likely thanks to the middle class that bukowski is so popular, so more than likely class has nothing to do with it. I don't (ever personally to be honest, but could be wrong) recall too many people on here saying they hated him because he was lower-middle or low class. Personally, I don't like him for the writing, any other attacks on his character is purely for amusement. Him being a over-hyped shitty writer doesn't have much to do with his socio-economic levels or what have you.

>>4777680
Yea, I know, he's a pretty good read. But god, who'd want to be such an asshole?


B)

>>4778780
simple language isn't stylistic interesting, but its appropriate to convey his story
he was a bit edgemaster though and I like him less than I did at when i was a college freshman

>>4777680
>aint bout that life

You say Bukowski. I say Nabokov.
You say Celine. I say Proust.
You say Dostoevsky. I say Bely.
You say Dickens. I say Milton.
You say Mann. I say Goethe.
You read second rate writers. I read first rate writers.

A lovely and insightful man :^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgIkU7Cd7jI

>>4777680
I think he's shit and I grew up dirt poor. Bukowshi is imitation depth for middle class kids who want to seem vaguely esoteric when they get drunk at parties.

>>4779510
>You say Bukowski. I say Nabokov.

Are you some kinda dolt?

>>4779510
You say ice cream. I say Italian Ice.
You say baseball. I say shotgun shooting old dolls
You say Avatar. I say sex tapes of Jim Jarmusch in Venice
You say Dickens. I say Godot
You say what. I say :^)

/fin

>>4779551
so perf

>>4779537
>Bukowski
>esoteric

>>4778780
pls stop abusing the spoiler tag

>>4779510
>not transcending the x-rate multiplicity

>>4777722
>worked some low level jobs
>drank some booze
>fucked some women
>wrote some books

Truly this man is worse than Hitler.

>>4779523
he can tell from this video that he was actually pretty harmless. he was a pained guy, not an evil guy

>>4778780
>thinks "I just like it" is personal preference
>thinks "bad writer" isn't just as subjective

Top kek.

For those of you who don't know, Bullkowski is a grill whose mother supposedly once had knowledge of Bukowski's purple onion. She trips for the sole reason of making anti-Bukowski posts. She also makes screencaps of her posts and posts those later on in other Bukowski threads. It's a strange affair.

>>4779537
Do you mean you have spent decades working dead end manual labour or just that your daddy did? Seeing as you go to parties with pretentious middle class kids I suspect the latter.

>>4778796
Who would want to be such a control freak?

>>4779510

>Celine
>Second rate

Fuck off.

>>4777680
He looks like he's Tim Roth's grandfather

>>4778796
The only appropriate response to a Bukowski thread

>mfw evil home stereo

beatniks were corny and lost

>>4777682
>shit poet

Explain

Don't read bukowski poetry like poetry

Just sporadic prose

Life will

Be
Easier

>>4780144
>bukowski
>beatnik

he had nothing to do with them except being admired by some of the same people

>I walked past one house and a woman ran out after me.
>"Mailman! Mailman! Don't you have a letter for me ?"
>"Lady, if I didn't put one in your box, that means you don't
>have any mail."
>"But I know you have a letter for me!"
>"What makes you say that?"
>"Because my sister phoned and said she was going to write
>me."
>"Lady, I don't have a letter for you."
>"I know you have! I know you have! I know it's there!"
>She started to reach for a handful of letters.
>"DON'T TOUCH THE UNITED STATES MAILS, LADY!
>THERE'S NOTHING FOR YOU TODAY!"
>I turned and walked off.
>"I KNOW YOU HAVE MY LETTER!"
>Another woman stood on her porch.
v"You're late today."
>"Yes, mam."
>"Where's the regular man today?"
>"He's dying of cancer."
>"Dying of cancer? Harold is dying of cancer?"
>"That's right," I said.
> I handed her mail to her.
">BILLS! BILLS! BILLS!" she screamed. "IS THAT ALL
>YOU CAN BRING ME? THESE BILLS?"

king of dialog

>I walked past one house and a woman ran out after me.
>"Mailman! Mailman! Don't you have a letter for me ?"
>"Lady, if I didn't put one in your box, that means you don't
>have any mail."
>"But I know you have a letter for me!"
>"What makes you say that?"
>"Because my sister phoned and said she was going to write
>me."
>"Lady, I don't have a letter for you."
>"I know you have! I know you have! I know it's there!"
>She started to reach for a handful of letters.
>"DON'T TOUCH THE UNITED STATES MAILS, LADY!
>THERE'S NOTHING FOR YOU TODAY!"
>I turned and walked off.
>"I KNOW YOU HAVE MY LETTER!"
>Another woman stood on her porch.
>"You're late today."
>"Yes, mam."
>"Where's the regular man today?"
>"He's dying of cancer."
>"Dying of cancer? Harold is dying of cancer?"
>"That's right," I said.
> I handed her mail to her.
>"BILLS! BILLS! BILLS!" she screamed. "IS THAT ALL
>YOU CAN BRING ME? THESE BILLS?"

king of dialogue

>>4780375
"Reading the poets has been the dullest of things... many of the great poets of the past, I've read their stuff. I've read it. All I get is a goddamn headache, boredom. I really feel sickness in the pit of my stomach, I say, there's some trick going on here. This is not true, this is not real, it's not good. You see poetry itself contains as much energy as a Hollywood industry, as much energy as a stage play on Broadway. All it needs are practitioners who are alive to bring it alive. Poetry is always said to be a private hidden heart which is not appreciated. The reason it is not appreciated is because it hasn't shown any guts, hasn't shown any dance, hasn't shown any moxy... Those who say the poet is a private and precious person I don't agree with. Generally he is just a dumb feddling asshole writing insecure lines that don't come through, believing he's immortal, waiting for his immortality, which never arrives because the poor fucker just can't write...nothing should ever be done that should be done. It has to come out like a good hot beer shit. A good hot beer shit is glorious man , you get up, you turn around, you look at it, your proud, the fumes, the stink of the turds, you look at it, you say God I did it, I'm good. The you flush it away. Then there's that sense of sadness, and just the water is there. It's like writing a good poem. You just do it. It's a beer shit. It's nothing to analyse. There's nothing to say. It's just done. "
-Henry Charlemagne Buccaneer

>>4780384
it's
still

bad prose

>>4779583
No.

>>4780028
I don't see any real valid points or rebuttals, so I guess my argument is sound.

>>4780415
>Pointing this passage out
Pic related.

>>4780587
Your only point against Bukowski has been that he lacks complexity, which doesn't make someone a bad author.

bukowski is literally a ham on rye. his simplistic style reflects the deviating conception of standard within society. and, the aggressive, drunkard, hound, that he is, makes his work relatable.

his writing is shit, simple, and relatable; the definition of mediocrity. i like it, but for the wrong reasons.

>>4780609
*ham writer, my mistake

>>4778780
>he wrote in the vernacular/colloquially so he sucks
I bet you hate mark twain

>>4780656
I loved Huckleberry Finn, but I'll be goddamned if some of Jim's dialog wasn't a chore to read.

>>4777680

>and can only identify with middle class shit

Bukowski's entire audience is middle class white male college students, though.

I view Bukowski more as a phase people travel through than someone one actively devotes substantial amounts of time or life to. Other writers have done the "seedy underbelly of society" thing, and done it better.

>>4777705
Post Office and Women are his best.

>>4780144

Except if memory serves Bukowski hated the Beat movement.

>>4778796
Brutally honest and vulnerable. Unpretentious. Carelessly crass. Fun and easy to read. 100% an original voice.

Personally, I think he's a genius and one of the best. Let the haters hate. They're typically the Junot Diaz type (the person, not his fans). Sniveling whiny self-absorbed liberal cunts who can't stand anything that isn't trying its absolute hardest to be the deepest most anti-mainstream thing in existence.

>>4778796
God would want to be. God would want to be. Such an asshole.

>>4780415
Reads like a script. Perfect. All it needs to be. No point in clusterfucking it up with "she sheepishly grinned:, "I bellowed back", "She said in the quiet half-hushed whisper of a woman out for revenge." He says what he needs to be and doesn't constantly try to sound like the smartest person in the room (like 98% of the people on /lit/).

>>4780786
>muh minimalism
kill yourself.

You're all going to be dead one day
And no one cares
Shut the fuck up and go do something worthwhile
Bukowski doesn't care about either side of this discussion
And neither should you

>>4779510
Nah you are a vapid cunt that sees in the affectation of moderation the signs depth. Your intellectual model is the bourgeois who calmly gazes on his property at dusk, after a hard day of work, holding your place in a book with your finger.
You think you are dedicated to truth and rationality but all there is to your fantasy is the nostalgia for the lie that was the pastoral.
So fuck off.

>>4777680
I genuinely enjoyed reading each and every one of Bukowski's books. That's all.

>>4780909
I have this with Welsh as well. Good story telling, keks, stylistically raw and all around enjoyable.

>>4778780
Wow Bullkowski is still here on /lit/ trolling Bukowski threads? That's commitment.

>>4781155
>That's commitment.
Posting the same drivel over and over for the last few years is not "commitment", it's pathetic.

Anyway, I can't wait to see the Ham on Rye film coming out later this year. It's James Franco's baby so I'm not setting my expectations too high. Just excited to see a new Bukowski project.

>>4781165
how about his sound and fury miscarriage?

>>4780095
>>4780117
>>4780772
Muh niggas

>>4780765
You best believe this shit's up on my bookshelf right next to TBK.

Obviously this isn't the album it's on, but definitely my favorite from MM

>>4781165
James Franco is a dullard. I know him irl from his artwork. Guy thinks he's this deep intellectual artist, but is a peg below guys like even Zac Efron as far as cool, smart, male actors go.

>>4780812
>Bukowski doesn't care about either side of this discussion

Bukowski would love this. Real greatness lies in conflict.

Well, every now and then I'll be on a library and find a Bukowski's book for 10 bucks and buy it.

Then one day, when I'm particularly bored, I'll sit down and read it all, and it's always pleasant, despite never having any new experience.

It's good to do so

>>4781268
This. It's kind of pathetic to see him trying for intellectual cachet by churning out all these adaptions of classics, art pieces, and short story collections while he does his more commercial projects. He needs to slow down and focus. He's like Norman Mailer.

>>4781261
Yeah, Lonesome Crowded West is probably the best but after that all I can say is that We Were Dead is a bit worse but still an excellent album. There's nothing they've put out that isn't high quality.

Slow walk
It's land mine
It's coal mine
It's a bad thought
On the way to god don't know
my brain's the burger and my heart's the coal
I'm trying to get my head clear
i push things out through my mouth i get refilled through my ears
i'm on my way to god don't know or even care
my brain's the weak heart, and my heart's the long stairs
Inland from Vancouver shore
the ravens and the seagulls push each other inward and outward
inward and outward
in this place that i call home
my brain's the cliff, and my heart's the bitter buffalo
my heart's the bitter buffalo
we tore one down, and erected another there
the match of the century: absence versus thin air
on the way to god don't know
my brain's the burger and my heart's the coal
on this life that we call home
the years go fast and the days go so slow

I relate quite a lot to Bukowski and Im firmly middle class, potentially veering into uppermiddle class

its the self-loathing and bleak violence thats relateable not the specifics. hes a piece of shit alcoholic and he evokes all the ways that makes you feel very well

his backstory is interesting but I wouldnt call it the crux of his oeuvre

Buk is a champion of the lay-man, and that's why folks enjoy reading him. He's introspective without lofty ideals, and outright shines through his blatant degeneracy. He makes the lazy aspects of human-kind sort of fun to explore.

While his poetry and prose is hit or miss, it is profoundly evocative when it hits home. Any author who can move a grown man to laughter, anger, and tears deserves a modicum of respect.

>>4781319
Everyone has a bit of Bukowski in them

>>4779551
not bad

>>4780609
this

>>4779510
>Celine
>Dostoevsky
>Mann
>second rate

>>4780597
If that's what you take away from me, and you don't disagree, I've done what I've wanted.

>>4781165
>Tries to insult me
>Makes it clear they're a Bukowski fan
I'm sure there is no biased opinions from this poster, right?

>Posting the same drivel over and over for the last few years
>last few years
It hasn't even been two years since I tripped. It's not even particularly close to two years even.

>see bukowski thread
>see giant block of text
>already know who wrote it
too bullkowski, did not read

>>4777680
He had an interesting life, which made his autobiographical novels bearable. But he didn't really have any skills as a novelist, and his poetry ranges from absolutely disgustingly abysmal to bearable.

The worst part about him though is that aspiring writers who imitate him (and there are a lot of them) are invariably people with less interesting lives and are therefore destined for eternal mediocrity.

>>4780103
harold bloom:

"Celine, whom I find unreadable, is a different phenomenon: he is in my garbage bin, with Wyndham Lewis and all but a few fragments of Ezra Pound."

embrace it, the /lit/ god has spoken

>>4781852
>Throwing this into the trash

"Why kid ourselves, people have nothing to say to one another, they all talk about their own troubles and nothing else. Each man for himself, the earth for us all. They try to unload their unhappiness on someone else when making love, they do their damnedest, but it doesn't work, they keep it all, and then they start all over again, trying to find a place for it. "Your pretty, Mademoiselle," they say. And life takes hold of them again until the next time, and then they try the same little gimmick. "You're very pretty, Mademoiselle..."

And in between they boast that they've succeeded in getting rid of their unhappiness, but everyone knows it's not true and they've simply kept it all to themselves. Since at the little game you get uglier and more repulsive as you grow older, you can't hope to hide your unhappiness, your bankruptcy, any longer. In the end your features are marked with that hideous grimace that takes twenty, thrity years or more to climb form your belly to your face. That's all a man is good for, that and no more, a grimace that he takes a whole lifetime to compose. The grimace a man would need to express his true soul without losing any of it is so heavy and complicated that he doesn't always succeed in completing it."

Harold, go back inventing theories about the J author.

>>4779510

>I read first rate writers
>Proust

Choose one.

>>4780861

WOW REKT!

>>4777682
That's why you like his poetry. And some of the things he has to say are spectacular. But, hey...maybe 1/15 is a gold mine.
>>4777705
Don't expect anything from it. He just says what needs to be said and nothing more. Also, he wouldn't give a shit what you thought about it anyways.
>>4777722
He was just a person living a life he wanted to write about. How was he shit?
>>4778796
Life makes people into things sometimes. If you read his shit you'd understand. He's not just an asshole to be an asshole. He found that his best way through life was no bullshit. He was tired of being bullshitted so he became honest.
>>4779510
You are much to pretentious to have any friends at all unless they are just like you and in that case I'm sure they hate you too.
>>4779537
Just because you're poor doesn't mean you understand anything. The OP was misleading and baiting people into conflicting arguments and conversations.
>>4780532
That

Is an
Opinion


Cock

Face

>>4780738
Post Office was pretty good.
Haven't read Women.
The first one I read ironically was his last, Pulp. And I couldn't turn back.
After that I bought Burning In Water, Drowning In Flame. That's how I was introduced anyhow.
>>4780764
If memory serves all the Beat's hated the Beat movement because the Beat movement was actually everyone but the writers aka posers in Jack's opinion. Beat's fucking blew anyways. Dick sucking and drugs and pointless rambling. Howl was tolerable, Naked Lunch was utter shock value shit not worth the paper, and On The Road is the only gem and even it was boring if you don't love the idea of travel, adventure, and jazz. and I love all of those things.


In other words.
Bukowski wouldn't give a shit and says what needs to be said with the least amount of bullshit possible.
If you don't like that, you don't like Bukowski.
The man didn't try to be good.
He tried to find something to pass the time.

>>4780861
>ad hominid

and that beautifully written rebuttal is invalid as you are also no better than he.

>>4781894
No anon, you're being insulted. Acting like more of a pompous faggot will not help, as you're just a pompous fag.

>>4781898
I'm not insulted.
I do not get insulted by people over the internet.
Seriously?

>>4781888

Get a load of the tidal wave of butthurt from this little tear queen Bukowski fan. This wall of text is just embarrassing.

Don't worry, kid. If you stick with it one day you'll actually have some taste. Promise.

>>4781888
Do you like to go through posts and do these little shotgun arguments so it looks like you're right?

Bukowski is garbage, and so are all your opinions.

>>4781888

This board is 18+

>>4781906
That has zero bearing on whether than anon was insulting you, or me currently calling you a pedantic nigger. The point is you are declaring fallacy incorrectly to "win" being insulted, you retarded fucking faggot.

>>4781827

>>4777737
>He's like a literary zyzz if that reference is familiar

>1/10 aesthetics
>beer mode physique
>lived to be 74 years old
>literary zyzz
>implying

>>4779523
The funniest thing is the cameraman (Barbet Schroeder?) going: "uh oooh".

I like Bukowski. I hate his writting, but I like Bukowski. I love him.

>>4782580
literary lifestyle confirmed for healthier than /fit/ life

bukowski also pulled more bitches than zyzz

>>4781888
>Life makes people into things sometimes. If you read his shit you'd understand. He's not just an asshole to be an asshole. He found that his best way through life was no bullshit. He was tired of being bullshitted so he became honest.
Dude....it's a line from a Modest Mouse song. Jesus Christ...

>>4784635
well dont crucify the guy because he missed an indie rock reference
although bukowski really was an asshole, idk why anyone would try to defend him

>>4784647
>well dont crucify the guy because he missed an indie rock reference
He should know his Modest Mouse. MM is the most /lit/ band there is. Isaac is a baller.

You'd better listen up and get a little cultured, m8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lQ4e9qLOTI

But here is the actual Bukowski song (different album)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2UCT5ABGa4

>>4784662
im aware of the song, i dont like it much though
i do like some MM, the first 3 albums all had some good tracks. Paper thin walls is probably my favorite track by them

>>4777680
Daily reminder that the only think appealing about Bukowski is his pulp-hero personae. His thought, style, structure, and everything else about his writing are all elementary level.

>>4784662
>get cultured
>modest fucking mouse
>cultured

>>4784662
you do nothing but spew lame edgy burnt out college rockers.

Whilst he put thought and intelligence into his response, thinking yours the same, you just copy paste lyrics and youtube links and tell people to 'get cultured'.

>>4784671
And his song by Modest Mouse.

>>4784670
Wah? Oh wait, you're not the original guy who didn't catch the reference. I think TLC is their best personally,TM&A is good too (close second). Paper Thin Walls and Wild Pack of Family Dogs are probably the best off of that album.

You oughtta listen to Styrofoam Boots, that opening is so great. It's kind of folky and higher paced, without all the yelling. It's great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li30NxCsJ7w

>>4784679
I was referring to being caught up with your /lit/-culture. Not so much "cultured" in the traditional sense, but being able to pick up on obvious /lit/ culture references. In this case, I'm talking about the one MM line that gets posted in almost every Bukowski thread, and often multiple times a thread. I see what you're saying though, anon.

>>4784684
Nah dude, see >>4784687

I suppose that might have been a poor word choice, I was referring to being familiar with the culture of /lit/, not "cultured." Sorry for not picking my words very well.

>>4784687
ill give it a go
i do like all the yelling though haha

Ham on Rye is ok, but his other novels are rather shit, especially Women.

Poetry was definitely quantity > quality. A collected works is all you need (and even then, there is more bad than good).

The best things he had, imo, were his short stories.

>>4784700
Yea, I mean it get's a little louder after the drum solo and it shifts over to "It's All Nice on Ice, Alright."

>>4784684
>you do nothing but spew lame edgy burnt out college rockers.
Wait, how would you know what I do? I did that for this thread, but it's not like I trip or anything. And being a "burnt out college rocker" is completely irrelevant when it comes to talking about the merit of their music.

>there are people on /lit/ right now that don't consider modest mouse to be cultured

Just look at the definition you plebs (pic related)

And this, how do they not fit into all this?
http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2013/01/29/anton-chekhov-8-qualities-of-cultured-people/

>>4778780
Gtfo tripfag

>>4784662
we already established /lit/ isn't about name dropping try hard shit

get gud

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLVQ_XzlKAc

>>4784716
>grown or propagated in an artificial medium
Yup, that's MM.

>>4784721
>we already established /lit/ isn't about name dropping try hard shit
I'm not sure if I'd call bringing up Modest Mouse "name dropping" or "try hard." No one is going to be impressed that you like them, and so no one brings them up in an effort to establish credibility or anything. While I hate to call it this, the whole "Bukowski" reference is basically a meme on /lit/ at this point, not really name dropping.

>get gud
k

>>4781165
The movie will be shit, but at least we still have barfly

>>4784716
>still not able to form a good argument on his own understanding
>just googling and copy pasting definitions and articles without any personality, drive or intelligence

Truly a sign of the times. So cultured this one.

>>4784813
>So cultured this one
What are you babbling on about? I'm not talking about me being cultured, I'm asking why someone wouldn't consider Modest Mouse to be cultured. And of course I'm going to do a little research and look up some stuff, obviously I am not the one who determines what makes someone cultured, and I'm not going to pretend like I have that authority. I think you're a little confused, anon.

>>4782580
.U JELLY BECAUSE BUKAKE MADE IT AND YOUR PRETTY BOY ZYZZ SUCKS AT DOING DRUGS

>>4784689
Funny how they jumped all over you for one ambiguous comment, saying you were the one crucifying him.

We may as we'll make shitty Bukowski threads Modest Mouse threads from now on, they're a very literary band and discussion of their lyrics > arguing over whether Bukowski was a hack.

Funny enough they actually got me into literature. When Good News came out, I didn't know who Bukowski was, heard the song and looked up the name. Ordered Ham on Rye and Notes of a Dirty Old Man and they were fun as shit to read and got me back into literature and reading for the first time since reading pulp fantasy in middle school.

>>4781894
lol @ 'ad hominid'

>>4781894
>>ad hominid

bukowski's rampant bigotry was totally and quintessentially bourgeois

>>4777680
People who like Bukowski are usually impressed by tattoos and obscure record collections.

>>4785103
>Funny how they jumped all over you for one ambiguous comment, saying you were the one crucifying him.
Yea, I know. It was a little odd. I mean I see where they're coming from, but god damn people. And I totally agree, Modest Mouse threads are a better alternative to shitty Bukowski threads (not that all Bukowski threads are shitty).

>>4786290
Which bigotry? He hated men more than women and was far from a racist.