/lit/ - Literature

start with the greeks

or just some secondary lit to put him in context

>>4541637
I hope you read Plato and Aristotle and Hume before Kant

>>4541642
>implying that you shouldn't read the presocratics before Plato and Aristotle

nobody has ever read or even finished "the world as..."
germans knew schopenhauer only because of his "The Art of Worldly Wisdom", a bestseller self-help book.

>>4541643
>tfw i only just finished the pre-socratics and am now faced with the complete works volume of plato i got from my uni library

I can do it

>>4541637
how could anyone throw his grapes away?

>>4541642

Don't forget Decartes!

>>4541661
Plato isn't such a big deal, you can get through his stuff.

Now, Aristotle though...

PERSONS WITH INTROVERTED THINKING DO NOT NEED EXTERNAL REFERENCES TO COMPREHEND A PHILOSOPHICAL "WORK"; IT IS USUALLY PERSONS WITH EXTRAVERTED THINKING THAT NEED EXTERNAL REFERENCES TO COMPREHEND A PHILOSOPHICAL "WORK", SINCE THEY ARE DEPENDENT ON OBJECTIVE INFORMATION.

INTROVERTED THINKING: I UNDERSTAND, THEREFORE I KNOW.

EXTRAVERTED THINKING: I KNOW, THEREFORE I UNDERSTAND.

>>4541668
that's a pretty naive false dichotomy you've got there

>>4541668
I ASSUME YOU ARE SUPERIOR AND A PERSON OF INTROVERTED THINKING.

IS IT ALSO A TRAIT OF SUCH PERSONS TO WRITE IN ALLCAPS

>>4541667
I was going to get a basic works collection of his stuff, which is still quite a lot. Is this a bad idea?

>>4541668
ARE·WE·HAVING·THIS·KIND·OF
CONVERSATION·AGAIN·I·FVKING
LOVE·ANCIENT·ROMAN·TYPOGRAPHY

>>4541689
Get something like Russell that can give you a broad overview of his different lines of thought (political, metaphysical, etc) and which dialogues fall into those lines.

Alternately, I recommend historyofphilosophy.net for a brief overview

>>4541726
WE·ALL·DO·MVIII

>>4541752
>1008

>>4541637
You're probably better off reading some sort of secondary literature or a companion text than trying to read all of Nietzsche (or any other philosopher's) precursors.

>20XIV
>still reading Immanuel Cunt

>not reading presocratic philosophy

> not just reading the first paragraph of the wikipedia article and "getting it"

seriously, if you need to read an entire philosophy book to understand a man's philosophy you're a retard

>>4541637
>Hume influenced Kant
the ride never ends

>>4541908
>Reading Davids Fumes

>>4541668

DID YOU THINK OF THIS DICHOTOMY YOURSELF ?!

>>4541637


check out heideggers 'what is a thing' for a quick and clear intro to kant (hes at his best when writing about other peoples stuff really, which makes sense since teaching was his day job).

>>4541689


aquinas did a series of commentaries on aristotle, i recommend those aswell.

>>4541670

This is what he does. He quips something just ambiguous enough to seem like he has a unique understanding of the topic and then leaves the thread before he's called out.

His posting gimmick is a way for him to try and desperately stave off being called out by those who actually know what the fuck they're talking about.

He's the biggest pseudo on this board.

Philosophy is like a ladder. If you try to jump and skip some steps you'll probably just knock the whole thing down.

>reading originals

>>4541637
You can go ahead and read TWAWAR and enjoy it and understand it without reading Kant first. In fact reading Schopenhauer will open the door to Kant and Nietzsche and Plato. From personal experience, I am encouraging you to crack on and enjoy.

>>4541668
and to think you had me convinced you were serious for a few months

>>4542449
Just noticed my error. Never mind. Read Schopenhauer before Nietzsche anyway. Just don't try reading Kant without a life jacket.

>>4542442

>being a faggots

kill yourself immediately

>>4542438
>He's the biggest pseudo on this board.
that's a bold statement you got there but it might be correct-ish

even d&e has occasions of lucidity

Honestly though you no sound cunts read fred without said cunts first reading:

all pre-socs
plato
stotle
descartes
kant
schop
montaigne
rochefoucauld
based longlord David Hume
listen to all of wagners music
stenhal
voltaire
umm i feel like im forgetting someone importante

if you want to do the shit do it right or go the fuck hame,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IGIBq2_OJM

Recommended reading for pre-socratics? I listened to all of the pre-socratic podcasts on historyofphilosophy.net and he seems to reference this book a lot http://www.amazon.com/The-Presocratic-Philosophers-Critical-Selection/dp/0521274559 but that book seems way too academic and dense for me.

>>4541668

I'M SORRY I HAVE TO TYPE IN ALL CAPS, I AM IN A CAVE.

Philosophy is just one big pseudo-intellectual circlejerk over literally nothing.

If you wanted to learn something useful, you would do science and not philosophy.

>>4542518

science would be dead-in-the-water without Phil you whoreson

>>4542488
Apparently, the current edition has been tampered with by an unscrupulous analytic editor. I suggest you either get the first edition, or otherwise buy pic related.

>>4542522
>appeal to tradition

Cool fallacy, philosotard. Philosophy has been made obsolete by science just like alchemy has been made obsolete by chemistry.

>not reading Nietzsche first then working your way back to understand his influences

Its like you plebs can't even understand philosophy unless it's spelt out to you.

>>4542528
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science

>>4542528
How is that appealing to tradition?

>>4542535
Science works irregardless of philosophy's anti-intellectual "cannot know nuffin" interjections.

>>4542536
Why don't you look up that fallacy on google?

>>4542528

im not appealing to tradition you dingleberry. i mean that if you remove philosophy, as a mode, a method, and only ternarily as a substantive output, science would be dead in the water, sans historic consideration.

>>4542541
Oh we're having this thread again? Cool.


Does /sci/ have this argument everyday? Or do you guys just come over here to rustle the hornets nest?

Is Aristotle necessary for truly understanding people who came after him?

I mean, I have the basic idea of his philosophy. Never actually read the stuff though.

>>4542529
This. Read all the interesting stuff first, then deepen your understanding by committing yourself to a serious study of the historical tradition that made his thinking possible.

>>4542548
Thanks for demonstrating your lack of science education.

>>4542552
>Does /sci/ have this argument everyday?
/sci/ loves repetition. You should see our 0.999 = 1 threads.

>>4542556
dweller detected

>>4542558

>post way over his tiny little lesbian head
>hrhrhr you haven't read science

youre a stupid fucking idiot ace, hth

>>4542564
Very profound "argument". You must be a riot in your philosophy class. Thanks for confirming that philosophy is nothing more than preschool tier shit flinging and name calling.

>>4541784
that was m8 m8

>>4541665
Did you make that picture yourself? Because they look nothing alike.

>>4542568
Is this your first encounter with stan? This is how he is. He talks mad smack and gives shitty arguments. Occasionally he posts something of merit that is actually of a pretty high caliber. Too bad he shitposts 99% of the time. I can't tell if I like his posts or not.

Ah well. I'm out of here. I've seen this thread 10000 times on here and it's the same posts every fucking time.

>>4542568

But you're the one who avoided argument by not addressing his post and replying instead with"You dont know science".

>>4542576
I don't care who he is. He has no authority on an anonymous board and all I inferred from this conversation was that he behaved like the stereotypical immature philosofaggotry kid, i.e. resorting to edgy instults whenever someone of real education questions his pseudo-intellectual world view.

>>4542577
I was stating an observation. Science always starts with observations. Do you even scientific method?

>>4542473
>no emerson
>no holderlin
>no lichtenberg

WoW you !!!MILKISH!!! CUNT("ETTE ") you JUST transcendunintentionally SIGNIFIED your clueless FAGGOT status, merkmal'd BITCH

I think you should read Kant first of all if you are interested in philosophy.

And you don't have to read Nietzsche, he's pseudo philosopher and irrelevant.

>>4542473
>skipping everything between Aristotle and Descartes

>>4542528
>alchemy made obsolete
Lol. You can actually turn one element into another even lead into gold. Though it's not economically worth it though. Welcome to the world Rutherford gave us.

>>4542528
this is a troll
he posted the same fucking thing the other day
please don't respond guys

pls

>>4542576

Stan is the worst shitposter this board has ever seen. But on the other hand he's pretty fucking brilliant when he wants to be. Him and D&E are really the only ones who can be said to have read and be able to argue philosophy. Other than them this board is just euphoric atheism and wikipedia.
On the other hand both of them are insufferable douchebags. It's a lose lose environment

>>4542584
>I was stating an observation. Science always starts with observations. Do you even scientific method?

Oh wow. How old are you? I'm glad your shallowness came out early at least.

Let's just end this thread guys. The dead-weight is slowly sinking /lit/.

Is anyone over 18 in this board anymore?

>>4542601
Please at least try to make your unlimited self-adulation a little bit less pompous when samefagging anonymously.

>>4542607
>self-adulation
>pompous
>unlimited
>bit
>please

>>4542606
Oh wow, another puerile insult. All these philosophy books must of taught you a lot about proper debating and rhetorical skill.

>>4542606

There's always a constant influx of 18 year olds. As people grow up they move on with their lives, thus leaving /lit/. Their space is taken by /b/ tards who see /lit/ at the top of the page and decide to come talk about atheism and Chuck Palahniuk.

The intellectuals are 1 in 100 around here.
As 4chan got more popular, all the boards became shit. Every teenager and their 10 year old sister post here now.

>>4542601
>Him and D&E are really the only ones who can be said to have read and be able to argue philosophy

You only think this because it's easier to associate identity (= shitposter w/ occasional brilliance) with a trip than it is to do that with anonymous posters. There have been plenty brilliant anonymous posts but we like to think those posters have left when they could just be shitposting/trolling/whatever.

>>4542616
>all the boards became shit

newfag detected

>>4542611
Are you writing down the words you didn't understand? Are you aware of the fact that you can look up definitions of words in a so called "dictionary"? I'm serious. There's a whole book dedicated to defining words for illiterate morons like you.

>>4542607

Not him but wtv.

>>4542616
>As people grow up they move on with their lives, thus leaving /lit/.

i-is that what you're supposed to do?

>>4542616
>As people grow up
>grow up
>4chan

oh god my sides

>>4542601

What is a stan and what is a D&E?

>>4542632

haha what a liar

>>4542655
tripfag royalty. I'm henry the 8th and he's cunt i had executed for birthing me a daughter

Just read Nietzsche. That's what I'm doing and I've never read philosophy before.

Just make sure you start with Beyond Good and Evil.

>>4542660

Btw guys where is our basement overlord?
I kinda miss the stupid faggot.

Hope the lads didn't render him inoperable. I'd like to get my coap on proper at some point. My balls are the size of tangerines and i need my release.

>>4542655
>What is a stan and what is a D&E?

earthworm's under onionring's shadow

>>4542689

D&E still posts here. As recently as today.

>>4542689
>Btw guys where is our basement overlord?

Are you soliloquizing again, you schizotypal misfit?

>>4542691

oniontits. missed you sweetheart. hows that dissertation you're working on going? still toiling after for a solution to something that's already been solved?
also,
picture of misshapen avocados or get the fuck out

>>4542655
>What is a stan and what is a D&E?

they're both shitworms that only onionring is capable of stamping out.

>>4542703

Dude, I'm fucking awesome.

which philosipher would win if all philosophers were put in a steel cage and made to fight?

>>4542724
adolf hitler

>>4542528
Sci is here Again

>>>/Sci/

>>4542708
onionring truly is the best tripslut.

>you will never dominate a submissive naturalist asian grad student

actually you probably will but they won't be as haughty as onionsnatch

>>4541668
Stop trying to convince yourself that being autistic is a good thing. It's pathetic.

>>4542453
Serious this fag? Please...

>>4542724
Richard Dawkins

>>4542703
>schizotypal

Whats wrong with wanting to feel nothing now?

>>4542739
schizotypal =/= schizoid

Educate yourself, fucking moron.

>>4542728
>adolf hitler
pls

>>4542724
Diogenes of Sinope, obviously. He spent most of his time at the gym with all those naked and sexy epheboi
>no homo

>>4542736
WHO ARE YOU? WHAT IS YOUR BUSINESS HERE?

>>4542742
What do u mean?

>>4541637
yeah that's how philosophy works, nothing is made in a vacuum

you have to be familiar with the issues at hand and know the dialogue to really understand anything in a valuable way

>>4542744
>no homo

Check your privilege and stop oppressing me shitlord.

>>4542754
That's a /fit/ meme, Sweet Tits.

>>4542747
use the google

Everyone pay attention we are witnessing the epic birth of a new tripfag

Greetings FannyC, I am Deep&Edgy lord sovereign of all tripfags, a no. 1, the big boss, the pater familias, head honcho, big cheese, Stan is a faggot, the man in charge, guy who controls things, i run this bitch, pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo, and so on and so forth. Everyone is answerable to me so make sure you don't say something I don't agree with in principle or you wont last long here at all mate cheers, don't fucking try it mate you'll be out on your arse cheers thanks

>>4542759
And that makes it ok? You are surely a rare breed of shitlord aren't you?

>>4542759
That's a /pol/ meme, goodgoy.

>>4542724
>mfw camus pulls out a .38 and drops averroes

>>4542764
D&E is the best tripfag, the smartest guy in the room.

*this post was approved by pater D&E*

>>4542761
No u.

>>4542764
get a job baby

>>4542766
It's a rare arrogance that demands everyone else behave the way you want.

>wanting to read Nietzsche

>>4542772
I thought the check your priv meme was from /mu/

>want to read Nietzsche

>>4542788
Yeah it's unbelievable some people think it to be ok to use obscene phrases like "no homo". The world is truly going to the dogs because of these shitlords.

>>4542800
1/10, just because people really do use "shitlord" and think it's an insult

>>4542764
What the hell Is going on here

>>4542766
I don't think you even get what I meant. And using the word "shitlord" non-ironically doesn't exactly make you look smarter.

>>4542764
Calm down Deepgy, I'm not a new tripfag. AnnieC is a contraction for AnalCrust. I just decided to stop using that name outside of /mu/ since it's a music reference.

>>4542541
>irregardless
Too obvious

to be fair if no-one ever paid attention to you and the most important person on the board doesn't know who you are you may as well be new for all intents and purposes

I'm considering taking up a trip. I want my shitposts to be public.

What should my gimmick be, /lit/?

>>4542826
shutting the fuck up

>>4542826
I had the same idea but I figured these faggots would just filter me.

>>4542822
>the most important person on the board
Your reign is over, Deepgy. Now Stan is the most popular kid in the playground. Get with the times, gramps.

>>4542833
Maybe I could just namefag, like butterfly.

>>4542826
You don't need a trip to shit-post. But the good ting about trips is, as >>4542833 said, that anybody who just doesn't want to read your shit can filter you.

What social disappointments do you have to endure to think that tripfagging is a good idea

>>4541643
>presocratics
>basically people trying to figure out what was the world made of
>made completly irrelevant because of modern physics, chemistry and biology

>>4542848
>hasn't read Heraclitus
>hasn't read Pythagoras
>hasn't read Empedocles
shiggy

>>4542847
It isn't, nobody said it was. It's all just for the sake of shit-posting. Just to make shitty things a little bit shittier. This world is already fucked beyond salvation so let's just make it a little worse for fun.

>>4542441
go home, wittgenstein. althoug he might just go down the ladder to the rood of meaning i'd guess...

anyway: nice saying. when i started diggin into philosophy i jumoed straight into Hegel it was a huge mistake and i made a fool of myself anyway i learned to dig philosophy in my own pace

>>4542872
Damn, that's a pretty rough starting point. Hegel can produce irreparable damage to anyone without a consistent base of general philosophical knowledge.

>>4542855
>This world is already fucked beyond salvation so let's just make it a little worse for fun.

oof. the edge.

>>4542342

>Descartes, Leibniz, Berkeley and Locke influenced Hume
>scholastics influenced those guys
>neoplatonists influenced scholastics
>Plato and Aristotle influenced neoplatonists

>>4542882

and how would he do that? I think I learned at least something about myself.

>>4542855
[aside]
What is crawling in my skin?
These wounds, will they not heal?

>western philosophy
I'll take my clusterfuck of circular rhetoric relying entirely on direct experience stemming from intense insight meditation and poems about the moon over this clusterfuck of dickwaving any day.

>>4542905
>I take anything I read literally
Ya blew it, buzzwordfag.

>>4542526
>someone reccomending a book about a specific area of philosophy or about a philosopher.
>always some 40 plus dollar textbook

Stop this shit please.

>>4542928
woah slow down there son. meaning first, then words, ok?

>>4542919
>and how would he do that?
Making you buy into
>muh absolute Geist
>muh rational=real
>muh idealism
>muh sophos
>muh end of History
>muh Friedrich Wilhelm III
>muh Napoleon
etc.
before you have the tools to detect it's bullshit.

>>4542935

>>>4542948

i made it just for you

>>4542942
Idle talk of idle men,
is as a spokeless wheel.

>>4542954
Oh, thanks for nothing!
Btw, you're pretty good at projecting, hasn't anyone told you?

>>4542950

as i said: I made a fool out of myself by believing him without knowing any concept at all. It was true a the time. The only genuine lesson Ilearnd was that every thinker (might have) has his own logic.

>>4542962

That's very well spoken!

>>4542967
Don't get me wrong, you must study Hegel if you want to understand most of the philosophers who existed after him. And you sure will get some interesting stuff from here and there... But you must know beforehand you can't swallow anything he throws at you.

>>4542997
>swallow anything
*everything

>not starting with the greeks

I started to read philosophy more seriously and after 4 years I'm still with medieval philosophy.
>tfw so close to reading modern philosophy and knowing all the hip philosophers

>>4543024
>4 years I'm still with medieval philosophy.
You're telling me you'd be over twenty years to get a degree?

>>4543032
No, I actually studied a year of philosophy before changing to engineering.

They skip most of the texts and you just read condensed version or some select fragments, along with some papers ON the texts.

If colleges were to make everyone read all sources, then most people would get their degrees in that time most likely.

>>4542997

i totally agree. It was suicidical to believe i could grasp anything from hegel. And yet after two years (and digesting some more easy stuff like bits and bites from everywhere else) I feel like I will never be abel to comprehend Hegels very core concepts.

On the other hand I'll try again. Till then secondyry lit must do the job...

i don't know what to do now... how to actually agrre on 4chan... or even at all

>story of my life... till now

>>4543057
>I feel like I will never be abel to comprehend Hegels very core concepts.
Well, some of those core concepts are just unable to be comprehended. Some say he wrote obscurely on purpose.

>>4543032
>institutionalized bits of time serve as a measure of how long we should spend learning something

>>4543066

why are you so angry?

>>>4542927

T O P L E K
O-----------E
P------------L
L------------P
E------------O
K E L P O T

>>4541651

>nobody has ever read or even finished...

speak for yourself bitchboy

>>4542848
>heraclitus and parmenides
>irrelevant

i finna swang i finna swang i finna swang

Op doesn't realize that philosophy is literally the first forum argument done via books. It is basically people bumping threads from years ago and saying

>"heres why you are wrong"

And this goes on from Plato in Western philosophy. You might want to start there, at Plato, and work your way up. People spend their entire lives studying and understanding philosophy, but do not dwell so deeply on reading philosophy to be accepted into it.

Philosophy of your own is what is important. Remember, philosophy is based on logic, so just be logical, and stop trying to be some kind of philosophical savant. It is done by acting, not imitating. .

Culturally the west is having a hard time because we are a culture of imitators and actors, not frequently thinking for ourselves, but rather using what "society" and "media" has told us.

should i not get into philosophy if i just started reading?

it seems really interesting

>>4542764
CMON!

>>4543251

If you like it, go ahead. What are you reading/have you read?

>>4542779
>the smartest guy in the room.
Kek

>>4542997
Kek. This cunt actually believes they know what they're talking about. These trip fags have the same, or maybe even less, acuity than the typical /sci/fag concerning philosophy.

>>4542942

Fucking rationalist. Words first, then meaning. LOanG live EMPiricism!

>>4543145
how can i hold all dat outdated german metaphysics?

>>4541731

Russell is like the most dishonest historian of philosophy.

No seriously, Russell is Hegel or Comte tier in terms of presenting other opinions in a biased manner.

>>4542327

Obvious troll is obvious.

>>4544133
>Russel "let me criticize this philosopher before even introducing his views in a philosophy introduction book".

How did this shitty book even become popular? Surely someone wrote better shit before this?

I will never understand why you all need someone to tell you things you could have figured out by yourself

>>4544250
Shut the fuck up, you weeaboo faggot. Tell me, how many people -- i.e. the average person -- would "figure out" Spinoza's system, Deleuze's system, Descartes' "cogito, ergo sum", and etc.?

The best philosophers are Evola, Guonon, Schopenhauer, Nietzche and Spengler

Prove me wrong

You can't

Checkmate

>>4544296
After reading through Schopenhauer's Ethic one learns - naturally he is to that extent honest - that he himself is not an ascetic. And consequently he himself has not reached contemplation through asceticism, but only a contemplation which contemplates asceticism. This is extremely suspicious, and may even conceal the most terrible and corrupting voluptuous melancholy: a profound misanthropy. In this too it is suspicious, for it is always suspicious to propound an ethic which does not exert so much power over the teacher that he himself expresses. Schopenhauer makes ethics into genius, but that is of course an unethical conception of ethics. He makes ethics into genius and although he prides himself quite enough on being a genius, it has not pleased him, or nature has not allowed him, to become a genius where asceticism and mortification are concerned. -- Kierkegaard

>>4544306
Sorry for annoying you, I'm a pretentious edgy 20ish fascist with aspirations of becoming more knowledgeable with regards to philosophy

>>4544296
i give up you win

>>4544348
:smug: Evola

Im a true aristocrat

>>4544312

what's the point

>>4541642
>2014
>reading british philosophy

>>4541726
>MMXIV
>NOT·WRITTING·LIKE·BASED·ROMANS

>>4542724
Plato, the name "Plato" means "broad"

>>4544296
>Evola
grown man who practiced black magic
>guenon
let his spirituality get in the way of his thinking
>schopenhauer
>nietzsche
no argument there
>spengler
very interesting writer, but its very obvious that he's just applying a general schema that could make any sequence of events look cyclical

>>4543077
>Institutionalized bits of time serve as a measure of how long we should spend earning institutionalized academic qualifications.
ftfy

>>4543082
Why are you so gay?

>>4543332
>kek
Words of wisdom. Yep, you sure told me.
What are the chances of a proper argument against the might of some bad ad hominem?

>>4541637
You can understand Uncle Frederick without reading Schopenhauer. Plus Schopenhauer was a pessimist, he may have influenced him in a very fundamental way, but Nietzsche was never a pessimist. There is hardly any atheist philosopher as positive as Nietzsche.

>>4544410
He actually won the pankration medal at the panellenic games, meaning he was one of the best in Greece, not only between philosopher

>>4544798
nietzsche's idea of a cool world horrifies most people though, probably why a lot consider him a negative type of guy

>>4542588
>nietzsche
>irrelevant

Basically every non-anglo philosopher after him is attempting to deal with the problems he set forth.

>>4543251
what are you interested in? you really don't have to read "everything" if you know what you're interested in.

i'm gonna put it out there that the philosophers most worth reading are nietzsche, kierkegaard, and heidegger if you are a typical depressed 4chan user. if you delve a bit deeper into their entire writings, they'll usually clear up what background philosophical thought is helpful for understanding their own thought (heidegger is especially great about this).

>>4542558
>You should see our 0.999 = 1 threads.

best irony is best

>>4542441
This, if you don't start with Ancient Sumerian literature then you're doing it wrong.

>>4546797
Yeah, Aristotle refers to them all the time, it's crazy.

>>4544404
>not reading hume's critcisms of aquinas