/lit/ - Literature

>>23045934
Agree or Disagree?

1. Skip scenes that the reader can imagine

2. Avoid "ing" and "to be" verbs.

3. Add a little bit of glimmer in desperate situations, and a little hint of despair in hopeful situations.

4. Avoid Passive voice.

5. Avoid body parts taking action (just say "I felt" instead of "my hands felt")

6. Remove tight POV filtering unless necessary (instead of "Mike saw a hand reach out from the coffin", just say "A hand reached out from the coffin").

7. Don't overuse similes.

8. Avoid "started to" verb. ("She walked" is better than "She started to walk")

>O, those delectable treats in my pantry! The selection was so colourful and vigorous that I had become slightly woozy, and had to grasp the counter to remain conscious. The choices before me wrestled the will; indeed, I had considered abandoning the whole ordeal and ignoring my ravenous disposition as reaching a decision felt hopeless. Ultimately, I had settled on three sweet delights: a tin of shortbread biscuits; a somewhat depleted (but far from empty) tub of marmalade; and some Belgian milk chocolate, gifted to me by a visiting professor.

>Unfortunately, as I find many French things to be, the chocolate was dross and most unappetising. I had discarded it onto the tabletop before, lo, my scoundrel of a canine Humphrey leaped for it! It was certainly fortuitous that, channelling the reflexes only a squash player of my calibre (in my youth) could muster, I prevented a most terrible end for little Humphrey.

>Oh, I devoured that marmalade tub with a savage ferocity! I imagine that incident with Humphrey had heightened my adrenaline to a terrible degree. Unfortunately, I had made many exam papers rather sticky and had to take some time to limit the damage.

>Then, my assistant—that boy Carter is a most eager fellow—brought me a cup of Earl Grey and I laboured my way through all the shortbread laid bare before me. Truthfully, I had become quite sick of eating the stuff towards the end but my gluttony prevented me from stopping earlier; moreover, to leave only a measly sum of biscuits, such as three, always feels wrong to me.

thoughts bros?

>>23045993
Second paragraph made me chuckle.

>>23045993
Relies a little too much on most + adjective.
>most unappetizing
>most terrible
>most eager

>>23045991
>Skip scenes that the reader can imagine
scenes should be interesting. if the scene is interesting write it. if the scene is boring, don't
>Avoid "ing" and "to be" verbs
why?
and by "to be" verbs do you mean "am, is, are, was, were"?
double why
>Add a little bit of glimmer in desperate situations, and a little hint of despair in hopeful situations.
So keep narrative tension? probably a good idea
>Avoid Passive voice
Passive voice has a place
>Avoid body parts taking action (just say "I felt" instead of "my hands felt")
You shouldn't use the word felt. I felt cold. NO. It's cold.
>Remove tight POV filtering unless necessary
yes. that's why you don't use a filtering word like felt.
>Don't overuse similes
sure
>Avoid "started to" verb. ("She walked" is better than "She started to walk")
As a general rule yes. If for whatever specific reason there is a timing related issue it can be used in limited cases.

>>23046027
there's power in reptation if deliberately used for that purpose

How do you write someone waking up from a really bad nightmare?
>She jolted awake, snapping upwards with a rustle of covers
>Her heart raced to the point of being audible
>Her breathing was heavy and forceful
>She felt kind of dizzy, even
I dunno

>>23046056
>She felt kind of dizzy, even

Get rid of that and describe how she's dizzy (show us) and not tell us.

>>23045934
nice blurry fucking picture bro

Do some of you people write fanfiction?

>>23046095
Every written work is fanfiction to some degree.

>>23046056
Open with an adjective like the greek poems do. Vomitous.

>>23046095
I did, for a brief length of time. Then went into my autism soap opera with faggot OCs. I sometimes still masturbate in that shithole of a cabin, when no one is there.

>>23046056
>Sheets clawed at her as she thrashed
>She screamed/whimpered awake
I once woke up laughing irl at something I'd dreamt so maybe have her in say warding off something if you'd prefer an action if it's that bad.

>>23046117
>I revisited that cabin I spent my summers in, number fourteen, set away from the other. No one is there now, all the other campers are gone. Long gone, I don't remember many of their names and don't know where my journals are or if the diaries I had saved on that one computer ever made it forward after the last few moves.

>I never went to camp but that's what made the place so special. I got to be there feeling the air through the screens, smelling...things of all sorts. Making my own kind of friends on terms I could understand. It got weird when it went from an appropriate gig to a kind of extended job as an all seeing eye. I'm glad it's over.
>t. anon's narrator

Which sounds better as an opening paragraph and why?

>An inherent law in the universe and cosmos. An inherent law in natural selection. An inherent law in human nature. My name is not important, but I’m here to change the rules. I just need the help of the four others and their symbols, but they've been separated. Torn apart. Cast away on separate planes. I can bring them back though. I just need the power. The power of… BELIEF!

or

>There's an inherent law in the universe and cosmos. And there's an inherent law in natural selection. And there's also an inherent law in human nature. My name is not important, but I’m here to change the rules. I just need the help of the four others and their symbols. Unfortunatelty, they've been separated, torn apart, and cast away on separate planes of existence. I can bring them back though. I just need the power of belief!

Other suggestions are welcome too.

I just tried to revisit some aforementioned old writing in the shower and there were like 3 firewalls, separate firewalls sounds chuuni as fuck, some of us are chuuni and schizoid enough that hypnosis is highly effective like goddamn, that's how you write in the first place, intentionally wiped files, sliced out journal pages, a missing journal maybe, and (I know how cringe it all is, I was doing some peak cringe writing) I'm wondering if I found some kind of peace or end to it or the reason for writing it or just nuked the whole project because I was headed too deep in the woods. I'm not weirded out by it and don't want to pursue it for reasons, but I do wonder if other anons have projects they can't go back to for whatever reason.

>>23046068
Thanks man

>>23046222
they're awful. don't start your book monologuing

>>23046222
You could write
>My name is Jimmy 6'4" 9" and there's an inherent law: to pound ass and pass gas.
And I might read the next sentence if I were really horny, just because it got to the fucking point with the first one. Still wouldn't be sold on the premise but that would hook he more than what you have there.

>>23046222
Remove "though"

Metaphorically speaking, what vanquishes water?
>Guy is described as "Being like water"
>Someone beats him
What should I use? Earth? Stone? What beats water?

>>23045991
the number one rule of art is that rules are made to be broken

>>23046804
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo26-NdzqbE

>>23046804
The man who doesn't get wet in rain cannot lose to water

>>23046804
Fire lmao.
Flames so hot the water dude just evaporates and dies.

>>23046804
vacuum

>two construction workers discover a statue in a gravel pit, soon become haunted by different versions of the same statue appearing everywhere
>in the indeterminate future, a worker needs another job to make ends meet and lets a big corporation use his subconscious mind for something while he sleeps
>a senile old man is reverting back to childishness and decides in a cloud of confusion he wants to be a sailor
These are three short stories I'm writing this month.

>>23046804
A thirsty dog drinks the dude

>>23045934
Chapter 1 is the hardest chapter to write

I'm writing 2 books: the other one at a space of 500-1000 words per day, the other one with 100-200 words per day.
After a year even the other book will be in a good start.

>>23047473
It's almost guaranteed to need rewrites whatever you do, so there's no reason to worry about it. As long as it gets you started, anything goes.

>>23045991
>4. Avoid Passive voice
Why should it be avoided?

>>23047634
Nta, but my understanding is that you want your characters acting and doing, rather than things happening to them (or to objects). Your characters should be proactive and the focus.

>>23047519
>As long as it gets you started
NTA, but what do I do if I have trouble with getting started? Both with each session on its own and also with the whole process in general?

>>23047725
That question points more to executive functioning and procrastination issues. I think there is something to be said for learning how to think about process and make the most of an outline or whatever, but people who get hung up on the basics use that to prasturbate. It's just not a good look, like frogposting. You have no interesting and relevant pictures saved and that says a lot about your potential writing.

>>23047743
>It's just not a good look, like frogposting. You have no interesting and relevant pictures saved and that says a lot about your potential writing.
Had me in the first half, should've known it's just schizorambling.

>>23047751
What do you think a frogpost signifies to other people? Because most anons say that it almost guarantees that you're functionally retarded and have no original or insightful thoughts. I pretty much outright stated that you have a brain dysfunction and you didn't catch it.

How would one write about discord/telegram culture? Both the technical issue of chatlogs/scripts being boring as fuck at the best of times and how to treat the subject matter. There's something fascinating about it, and absolutely vapid and disgusting, but I've seldom seen it talked about other than from the pearl clutching or cumskull antipodes.

>>23047651
Active characters and the grammatical active voice are unrelated.
>Rain fell on the protagonist.
>The protagonist waited patiently.

>>23045934
What does this comic mean?

Can someone explain passive voice to me like I'm a complete retard, because I think I actually might be.
I'm aware of the zombie example but I can't figure out how to apply it in writing/editing.

>>23047825
I've seen it done and it reads like a script or becomes a kind of free, indirect account of a roleplay session. I think what the participants are there for and how they express themselves and how shallow it can be, I'm guessing, is more of the point than the presentation. I think if you figure out what you're trying to capture from it, it'll become more clear. I think it's why epistolary novels are so hit or miss.

>>23047910
i'm explaining passive voice to the retard. passive voice is being explained to the retard. the retard, failing to understand, commits suicide. suicide is being committed by the retard, because of his shame. i will shed no tears for the retard. tears will not be shed, for the retard, by anyone.

>>23047634
You should avoid it when describing your main character. Make them feel like they have agency. When you are not talking about your main character, or objects, then you can use passive voice to highlight the difference.

>>23047910
>I bit the zombie...
>...by zombies.
Ungrammatical=Active
>I was bitten...
>...by zombies.
Grammatical=Passive.

Don't worry. 90% of people who complain about passive voice can't identify it either.

>>23047971
It's more an injunction against inverting clauses and making quagmires of infinitives and superfluous helping verbs. Some will tell you the imperfect is overused and reads as passive. There is also a massive disconnect between grade school grammar, academic treatments of grammar, and literary grammar so we're not speaking the same language at all most of the time.

>>23047473
Not for me.

>>23048020
>It's more an injunction against inverting clauses and making quagmires of infinitives and superfluous helping verbs.
Then they should say 'don't make quagmires'.
>There is also a massive disconnect between grade school grammar, academic treatments of grammar, and literary grammar so we're not speaking the same language at all most of the time.
I'm no prescriptivist. It's fine for words to change meaning over time. But technical jargon is precise for a reason; it has to be. Calling anything you don't like 'passive' muddies the water. Look at the people in this thread confused by what should be a very simple and basic concept.

>>23047066
Now put all 3 into one story.

Writing is for faggots real men do.

>>23048067
Honey, only other faggots do faggots.

>>23048067
real men do faggots for which writing is

>>23048080
Yes, this is exactly what he said. But also, >>23048078

>>23048044
It's weird, writers aren't linguists, took basic grammar and made their own technical language from it, but it's a language of art with different nuances and senses to words. Go on AO3 or somewhere and you'll notice the kind of passive voice that's outside of the basic grammatical sense but still obnoxious when overused.

How do I know what I want to right

>>23048155
You should know what you don't want left

>>23047886
they were at the meet the author stand while saying bad things about the author

Is suicide preferable to writing genre fiction?

>>23048217
Is the chance of being a faggot preferable to the certainty of being a pseud?

>>23048217
I like genre fiction

>>23048318
Only retards like genre fiction.

>>23048326
Rather be a retard as defined by you than whatever you consider yourself. being a 4chan pseud seems like a pretty unfortunate fate

>>23048217
Genre fiction is honest, but the shit now isn't even honest slop.

>>23048402
What makes it (dis)honest?

>>23048338
Fine then go read about your gay elves with their warp drives and leave intellectual discussion to us.

>>23048406
It's all a third order abstraction of whatever the real thing once was, except without any awareness of that fact. Like how something like Undertale/Deltarune is a game based on fanfiction of a game that never existed and relies on game internet culture meta references, but half the audience takes it as lolrandumb humor and shipping fodder. That pretty much describes genre fantasy right now as well.

in my story where the males of a race has 30 minute long orgasms

what would a human woman if they were giving the male a handjob and he came? He's gonna be squirting for half an hour so what would be some good things for her to do? Make out?

I get the feeling she'd need to prepare a jar or something to collect too or else it'd leave a huge fucking mess everywhere.

>>23046804
>>Guy is described as "Being like water"
This niggas protagonist is Bruce Lee.

>>23048439
Intellectual discussion? On /wg/? Pseuds are too funny, man
Gonna go read about gay elves with warp drives, now

>>23048580
Why is that dishonest? It still seems genuine and passionate, the content is just questionable. But that's not 'dishonest'

>>23048439
My man chose the certainty of being a pseud

>>23048722
I'm about half asleep, but I believe his point is that the stories aren't even genuine anymore, they can't take themselves seriously and become referential to an idea of what a fantasy or sci-fi story is.
>>23048715
We could have an actual discussion.
Funny enough, his instant dismissal of genre fiction as being without worth means we couldn't even start to have any worthwhile discussion about it.

>>23048732
But that isn't what 'honest' means. Whether you think Toby Fox's work is overly meta, referential, or derivative doesn't have any bearing on whether it was something he created without compromising his vision. He clearly made something he wanted to make, which makes it honest. By definition of honest. Unless you have some other definition, which for some reason means 'non-derivative and takes itself seriously'? (Which would be silly, imo?)
Again, saying nothing about whether it's 'good.'

>>23048765
>overly meta, referential, or derivative
This is mutually exclusive with having a vision and only a postmodernist would argue otherwise

Where the fuck do y'all get good prompts? Doing a quick search of them and they all look like shit. Am I too uncreative for this?

>>23048648
>He's gonna be squirting for half an hour
ejaculation and orgasm are different, even if they tend to be tied together.
the obvious solution would be to circumcise, which tends to turn a male's orgasm into a 5 to 10 second flash in the pan.

>>23048923
Prompts?

>>23048923
I've never looked up prompts.
If you want one, I've had the story idea of an irreverent immortal being punished by being put in charge of a team of young up and coming super powered individuals, and his judgement will determine if they are allowed to become heroes, or if they must live their lives under constant watch to prevent them from being the living weapons that they are.
Partly the idea is based on a greentext I've seen a few times, the idea of a movie where a 90s movie bully is placed into a modern school.
His attitude towards these younger people would put him at odds, and it would seem at first that he is actually a villain using them to gather pieces to make a super weapon, but really he has a good reason for hiding what he's been doing and gathering parts from the villains that they've been fighting.
>>23048943
A story prompt.
>Immortality is false
>A military team enters a magical forest
>A Sheriff made of metal in the last days of the old west and old magic
Just an idea that could be expanded into a story.

>>23048936
I also wanted them to cum for around 30 minutes straight just for fetish purposes (knotting bitches getting filled up like a balloon)

also no circumcision, I don't have that in my setting except for weirdos.

>>23048923
I have constant intrusive thoughts, I write them down and use them as prompts later. Schizo master race, represent.

>>23048943
A short premise that become the basis for a longer story. Some of them give me cancer and I can't tell if it is because I'm unimaginative, or of they are truly that bad.
>Write about a character who isn’t nostalgic about their past at all, and show readers why.
>Write a story about a grown-up sharing their favorite childhood video game with their child.
>Write a story about someone finally gaining access into their family’s very old computer.
>Write a time-travel story where a character from the present finds themselves in the 80s or 90s.
>Start your story with a character finding a retro piece of tech they don’t recognize.
>Write a story that includes someone saying, “You can’t run forever.”

>>23048954
Thanks for the prompt. I'll see if I can make anything worth reading with it.

>>23048936
>which tends to turn a male's orgasm into a 5 to 10 second flash in the pan.
I thought this was supposed to happen

>>23048873
The only definition for a work being honest is that it was created earnestly. That the creator made something they wanted to make, not for money, audience, or prestige. That's the full definition of 'honest'
An awful naruto fanfic by a 13-year-old is some of the most honest fiction that can be created
You don't know what honest means
This board is retarded.
inb4 'stop feeding the trolls'
No, you fuckers are really just that stupid

who here has published a novel? I want to read some

>>23048722
The authors don't even know that they're doing it
It's just cringe blindly aping cringe. I find Fox honest because he knows exactly what he's doing.

>>23049032
Check the pastebin in the OP. There are plenty of print novels. There are also other cliques and past anon collabs, so lurk around. /lit/ has published tons of work, even if you don't include all the serialized stories.

>>23049017
it is. that's the purpose of circumcision, to reduce pleasure so that man spends less time being sinful and more time contemplating god, or whatever.

>>23049054
No I meant I thought all male orgasms are like that, I'm circumcised so I don't have a large frame of reference

>>23048722
Genre fiction used to be entertaining and part of a continuum of stories. Now it's not even attempting to do either, it's just some human centipede shit that doesn't even attempt the quality of what the progenitors did.

>>23048923
I'll give you one right now
Write a James Bond novel where the bad guys are from former colonies of the British Empire and the crown reasserts its dominance over their homeland
You can do a lot of these
Ireland would be a fun place to start

>>23049057
I'm not and it really just depends on how emotionally invested you are. It can last a few seconds if its just a routine fap but if you are utterly in love it could be a lot more. Definitely never more than a minute unless someone was on drugs or is just built different.

>>23049057
They are. Circumcision reduces sensitivity, so it takes you longer to reach orgasm. But once the trigger is pulled, it's the same thing.

>>23049119
Not true. Circumcision does reduce sensitivity on what they let you keep, but the primary thing it does is remove nerves. Basically it removes the entire middle of the penis and they stitch the bottom part to the top. What this means is that entire section of removed tissue never creates the sensations in your brain that they should. A circumcised orgasm is a pale substitute.

>>23049119

so only incircumcised can goon?

>>23049032
Look up the works of F. Gardner. He’s the most successful and unique writer that /lit/ has produced.

>>23049196
>the utter state of /lit/

>>23049040
>>23049088
Has nothing to do with honesty, are you people serious? I don't even disagree but that's not what fucking 'honest' means
kill me this board is so stupid. you would think writers would have word comprehension

>>23049196
maybe not unique because his autism is impossible to recreate, but definitely not successful. there's regulars even to /wg/ that have much larger audiences

>>23049290
Seethe

>>23049295
What? Why would I seethe? You having a schizo moment?

>>23049305
Ignore all F Gardner posters. Either it's him, or it's someone trolling.
For all I know, you could even be him.
I've seen threads were people who were arguing with him were shown to have been him after a ban.

>>23049305
>>23049326
When in doubt, assume all F Gardner posters are F Gardner

>>23049330
I could even be F Gardner, and I'm the second Anon you replied to.

>>23049339
What if we’re all F. Gardner?
Whatever happened with his NaNoWriMo contest, anyway?

>>23049339
"Gardner"? More like "Fart-nerd"!

>>23046880
It's a metaphor, Anon.
The guy is compared to a vast ocean in how you can't truly hurt him.
I was considering having our protagonist punch the guy so hard he can't limp away from the damage because dispersing it only causes parts of his body to explode like zits

>>23049388
>metaphor
Lookit this idiot making up words.

I lost all ambition to continue writing my story ever since I lost my job. What do I do now? I probably don't even remember what my story is about.

>>23047932
That helps a lot, thanks. It's more how casual the depravity is but that applies too. I'm used to the script format but I never considered extending the "experience" into the narrative itself.

>>23049508
I'm not going to tell you your shit sucked, but perspective and priorities are a cunt bitch and will wreck you and any motivation you had to finish a story. If it wasn't at least trying to be some form of literature or art, it's probably dead.

>>23049196
what the hell is this

>>23049632
Our resident schizo

>>23045934
How do I get people to read my eroge?

Because nobody reads anymore, I have decided to write a screenplay.

I wrote eight-hundred words in a journal entry today; you could same I'm something of a writer.

>>23049947
Nobody reads those either, and besides, you're doing it wrong

I’m looking for some advice I am an absolute dogshit writer but I really want to write stories. i have the ideas just not the form. I was hoping someones had some good resources on writing

>>23050078
Wow, very insightful.

>>23050092
You didn't make any friends here the last time you posted your slop, you didn't listen to any of the advice you got, and now you're back just to waste some more of other people's time?

>>23050097
I don’t know who you’re talking about.

>>23048923
Read. Talk to people. Live life. Yes, you'll have to leave your cramped little room and go to places where there are no tendies. But I believe in you, incel NEET shutin.

>>23049032
In addition to the OP pastebin (as >>23049050 pointed out), there's &amp's list: https://lampbylit.com/magazine/authors/

>>23049632
he's a useless NEET shutin who lives in a really gay apartment

>>23050090
More info needed. What kinds of stories? Ask good questions and you can get good answers.
I write genre fiction for a living, and I found Brandon Sanderson's BYU lectures interesting. I don't follow many of his processes, but receiving insight from an accomplished author in a detailed, long-form, and digestible manner is one of the better ways to start building writing intuition as a beginner. Maybe check those out.
I also liked Chuck Palahniuk's book on writing, 'Consider This'.
Look up resources specific to your situation. Short stories, web novels, romance, sci-fi--everything has specific advice that only applies to itself.

Is Calvino-style metafiction something that should be pursued? I find it more than a little masturbatory but I feel like there's something to learn from trying to write it.

This place is so highbrow its intimidating

>>23050221
I know sarcasm is hard to read for some people online, but this wouldn't be the most insane thing I've heard someone say.

>>23050227
Well maybe going to this place is getting me interested in learning philosophy before I shot down the thought. I'm not going to since I already have enough on my plate

>>23050137
hello frank

>>23050237
If you ever lack inspiration, reading challenging work is a great way to start. Whether it's learning about difficult philosophical issues, a biography (or talking to the most unique people you know), or even just a classic novel, reading stuff like that can prepare you to make a great story period.

>>23050257
Okay I've heard about a novel called Blindsight. Does it belong in that category of philosophy? It's a pretty well known sci fi novel from what I know about it.

>>23050267
That depends, if the author has published work related to the problem, it might be legit. Some of the supposedly deep problems are still basic fiction writing hocus pocus to give the illusion of depth. That illusion is important for many enjoyable books. But truly challenging work comes from a rigorous author who has analyzed it from all angles and can lay it out in an essay.

>>23050156
it's funny and fun when you're not trying to be clever and stick to writing something you would want to read. Forcing the reader to work or think too hard misses the point in a number of ways.

>>23045934
Bros... help me deal with storyline creep

I originally wanted to make a short lovecraftian story. Very cliche, but the goal was a quick easy to digest simple story that deals with depression and such.
But I started to get these ideas to expand the story, maybe double the word count, wait wait no let's go for a proper mini novel.
Add more characters, more plot twists, more complex villains, a bunch of meta clues and foreshadowing...

All that bullshit.
Now I'm trying to psyche myself to coarse correct to the original plan but the grand ideas keep coming.

>>23050413
>psyche
Take off the horn cosplay

I finished chapter 20.

>>23050601
Cool what's your work about

>>23050616
Friendship.

Would "milk mother" or "nurse mother" be a better term for a prince to call his wet nurse/swordsmanship instructor?

>>23050734
wet nurse is fine

>>23050734
>milk maiden
>cow

What's a less extreme version of
>his expression soured
I've contemplated
>his enthusiasm waned
>he/Name wavered
>Name failed to suppress mild disappointment
Context being the man seeing the woman's breasts for the first time and her large mole. Like it's not a huge deal breaker or massively disgusting simply unexpected and a letdown.

What do you think an author would do if you took their six book series and wrote a chapter by chapter erotic AU fanfic that you send to them of their entire series.

I love the series.

I wrote this poem when I couldn't sleep a few days ago:

- The Prisoner

A youthful indiscretion,
himself is to blame.
A hasty ill decision
trapped him in this game.

He looks out through the bars
of cold iron wrought,
at cyclic changing stars.
Days turn to weeks,
months turn to years.
His cyclic changing thought
his regrets, his dreams, his fears.

His life spent in private cell,
The world goes on outside,
his old forgotten Hell
unnoted in its stride.

Until one day his sentence served,
Justice was to be observed.
The Board had granted him parole,
but he was not relieved,
crawling from his hole.

For though the slab and steel retreated,
his torture would be repeated.
Flesh replace cement,
Bone would not relent,
His one remaining hope,
replace the Board with a rope.

>>23049187
Goon to the full extent the good lord intended? yes.

>>23050934
He suddenly found himself cured of his priapism.

>>23050761
but I wanted them to have a foster mother-foster son relation

So I'm in a certain situation right now and really need help. My story has been told from the first person and I've been VERY careful as to how the protag is referred since I want the reader to self insert, be it man or woman. That is to say, nowhere in my story is the protag referred to as a single gender (no they're not a tranny).
Anyway, I'm at the climax where one of the female characters rapes the protag. Problem is, obviously men and women have different appendages so I can't write "she stuck it inside herself" because now the protag is being referred to as a man. I know this is a really weird thing to even talk about but how do I tip toe around this while still being descriptive?

>>23051158
Allusions may be of help. You could go biblical and say something like "she had him carnally." (re: sodom)

>>23051164
them*

>>23051164
Guess that could work. Already referenced biblical stuff already so it's not entirely out of the question.

>>23051207
If you find it doesn't suit the work, I was reminded the fujo adjacents over at ao3 are pretty used to dealing with gender nonspecific sexual relations. Might be worth having a look at.

>>23051215
Thanks anon! That's actually pretty helpful

>>23045934
How do I overcome the feeling that everything I’m writing is shit.

>>23051336
Stop writing shit

>>23051336
Just accept it is shit and make it not shit during the editing process.

>>23050152
Whew, this has gotten a lot lengthier and...ramblier that I initially intended. Feel free to skip.

I'm not the guy who asked the initial question, but I'm in the same kind of general situation. Since you've answered him, mind if I pester you some more?
I guess I want to try my hand at something like short stories (I know how important it is to limit the scope at first thanks to dabbling in game dev), maybe web novellas/novels eventually if I do actually get going.
The thing is, I do have some ideas as for what I would like to write. Sort of. Some interpersonal romantic drama - though I'm not really familiar with stuff like that; some complex geopolitical intrigue - though I'm too dumb for it and short story is definitely the wrong format here; some epic heroic fantasy of gods and demons - as cliche and boring as it may be in the current environment; some tales of adventures and magic and whimsy - this is the only things I really have no arguments about, other than that it hinges heavily on character writing which I'm bad at. But the main issue is, all these ideas are really vague and abstract and I haven't the faintest clue as to how I'm supposed to ply and develop them into something workable.
Trying to start with an outline ends up in it being too stiff, and in me often being unable to tie different parts together cohesively. Going with a different approach and just writing as I go is basically ensuring I will trail off somewhere and just stop eventually.
Lately it's gotten so bad that I can't even start working on anything writing-related, and I really don't know how to give myself that push to start over again.

>>23051336
When you're writing you should feel like the second coming of Christ; it's only after a month or two post completion, when you're re-reading what you wrote, that you should feel deserving of a bullet to the head out of shame.

>>23051607
I'm almost the opposite, I feel intense shame about my old work and then when I'm brave enough to read it it turns out it's pretty good

>>23051641
>when I'm brave enough to read it it turns out it's pretty good
I-is it possible to learn this power..?

>>23051749
If I can't convince myself in the moment that a sentence is good then I don't type it out. This makes me write very slowly and possibly improve less quickly overall, maybe less of a power and more of a neurosis
I also start editing as soon as the sentence is on the page and never stop but that works well for me I think

>>23051769
Do you ever find yourself in a situation where you can't convince yourself in the moment that the sentence is good at all? How do you avoid getting stuck on something like that?

I'm writing a short story/essay on how writers approach their created worlds and the contents of them, and I want to hear anon thoughts on what makes one unable to return to the creative space for a given world. This is not a question of worldbuilding, more that we create narrative realities that are separate from other realities and what inhabits them adheres to the rules of that given world. But the metaphysics of how fictions are seeded is waaay outside the scope of this. So far I've personally identified:
>finishing the initial project
>growing out of the mindset required for creating the world (the cringe factor)
>the relationship with the world and its contents going from exploratory and transformative to purely escapist
I'd like to hear some thoughts on what makes you "done" with a given project. I find it easiest to tell with short stories because there is a definite moment where you know you have either milked the idea dry and need to start editing or need to turn it into a novel.

>>23051936
Fuck you and fuck your gay ass book.

>>23051443
I'm NTA but I'll take a stab at it. Your intuition is right: you should reduce the scope until your skills catch up to your ambitions. Short stories however are not quite what you're looking for, because they are a form unto themselves, and a good short story is as difficult to write as a good novel.

I think what you're looking for is a way to practice the basic unit of fiction, which I think most people would agree is the scene (though they may not so easily agree on what a scene actually is). The first thing you probably want to learn is the general structure of a scene, how it begins, how it develops and how it ends. You can do this by studying scenes from good books and seeing what elements they have in common. The structure you uncover is itself less important than how much it helps you to write a working scene. One possible structure might be centered around change. A scene is a character dealing with a significant change in their life, whether positive or negative, that disrupts the status quo. In the beginning of the scene, the change is introduced: a new job, a new girl, an illness, a dead body, a newborn, etc. The scene develops by showing how the protagonist deals with the change, his initial strategies will be whatever he thinks is easiest and the particulars will reveal his character. A wily character might resort to subterfuge while an honest one deal with the issue head on.

Inevitably, the first attempts fail (or else that would be the end of the scene, and the change was not significant enough to present in a scene to begin with). The protagonist is then forced to try something outside his comfort zone--this again reveals his character. The wily character will fear dealing straight, while the honest one will hesitate to lie. The tension generated by change is at last resolved by some climax and then the falling action depicts the new status quo. A novel is then just a sequence of such changes to an evolving status quo, with quiet periods (whether lasting one hour or one year) summarized in between.

1/2

>>23051948
Another possible structure is that of suspense and expectation. A scene is the resolution of a question that has been raised in the reader's mind. The beginning of the scene introduces the question: will the boy the get the girl, will the thief get caught, will the queen poison the king? The scene develops by showing why this question is a non-trivial one: the girl is a princess and the boy is a page, the thief is skilled but is beset by the thief that trained him, the queen is madly in love with the king, but the king is a danger to his kingdom. Easy answers, those answers the reader might immediately expect, are discarded in the development. The page confesses his feelings and the princess agrees to elope with him, but it turns out to be a trick. An impassioned appeal to honor among thieves and the master-student relationship will not work because the master blames the student for a past grievance. No one else can get close enough to poison the king because of his paranoia.

Finally, at the end of the scene the question is fully answered, usually in an ironic fashion. The boy does not get the girl, but now wants her more than ever--to punish her. The thief escapes the master remains trapped by guilt. The queen poisons the king, but the king has made himself immune to the poison. A novel is just a sequence of such questions, raised and answered, connected by cause and effect.

>>23051936
I'm not sure if I understand exactly what it is that you want, but I believe I do.
Firstly, I'm writing a webnovel, not a novel, though I do intend to rewrite and adapt the story into a series of novels.
This change means that I have never truly stopped expanding the world itself, but for the most part I would say that it is set in stone, there are rules that will not change.
I wrote about a dozen chapters or so, maybe 20,000 words before I really felt like I settled on the setting.
The reason for this settling is that I found a central theme in my writing that I hadn't started writing with in mind, and once I had this theme that I thought was strong, I changed up some of the setting and tone of the story to better match this.
In a sense, I started with what I thought was a interesting world, though a tad generic to start, and then I wrote until I realized what I really wanted to do with this world, so I modified it somewhat to better accommodate what I would be writing.
The world exists for the story, the story does not exist for the world, and I believe this is the difference between world builders who never actually do anything with their world, and writers.

it's time to slurp coffee and REVISE

>>23051966
If you were any good you’d have gotten it right the first time. You should KYS.

>>23051966
Fuck.
I finished my chapter just before bed, but then I was gonna edit it as soon as I got up.
Slept poorly, then niece and her step brother (step-nephew?) were here so I watched them so my mother could get some things done.
Now, for real, I can edit, just as soon as I finish my burrito.

>>23051969
at this point it's mostly just grammatical editing

>>23051974
Don't feed the trolls. Either he'll burn out when he sees that he isn't getting (You)'s or he'll just be yelling into the void.

>>23051959
By "world" I mean the space or state you enter into in order to create a story, a fictional world, and the act of inhabiting it as an observer of the creation. Like, you could write a Batman story if you entered that headspace and create your own Batman world. I don't think you could re-enter the world of a story you have already written and completed or diverged too much from the person who originally wrote it.

I think you're right that the world exists for the story and when the story is done, the way into that mental space as anything more than a reader is at some point, gone. It's like you burn the tools you used to make it when you get to that point.

>>23051976
Then I would need to get back to you, since I have one story that I'm actively working on, and one that I probably won't finish because I started it for a writing challenge but lost interest once the challenge was finished even though the story wasn't.

>>23051975
He has a point. Sometimes if an idea doesn't work out you should shelve it. The practice is what matters. The ideas can be material for later.

>>23051986
It's a weird concept to wrestle with and I worded it poorly. I was watching a jk rowling interview like a decade ago and she talked about how the moment she finished the final book, she knew she couldn't re-enter that world. It was closed to her and continuing the story wasn't a possibility. I'm cleaning up and organizing my old notebooks and data hoard and while I was cringing myself to death, I realized I had very little recollection of writing much of this shit and couldn't recall the details of this thing that took up a large amount of my time.

That's what led me to this, and an anon talking about how he couldn't go back to a story after losing his job.

>>23052007
Had he said anything like that, then yes, I agree, but there are two posts that I assume are the same poster.
>23051969
>23051947
Both of these offer no real advice, they are nothing but an attempt to anger or discourage others, and so I don't believe there was any honest intent behind them.

>>23052026
How is that any different than the usual shit i see from people here?

>>23052026
I like to take people (and literature) at face value. It served me ill until it served me well.

>>23052036
Some people, while crass, include at least a nugget of something that can be seen as advice.
If someone says
>fuck off.
vs
>fuck off, ESL.
Then that completely changes it, because the second at least points to why they are telling you to fuck off in some way.
ESL would mean that either your grammar or prose is awkward in a way that reads poorly to a native English speaker, but that might not be clear to someone who only reads and writes the language.
I ignore posts that have no value to them because replying only encourages them to stick around.

>>23052045
I get it. You’re retarded. There’s that nugget of truth for you.

Not sure if this is the right thread but I have to write an assignment of just 100 words answering some questions about a text and I have to cram in so much shit in there its becoming impossible. Any good way to trim down sentences? I suppose they use the 10% rule so 110 words is also ok.

>>23052067
Chatgpt

>>23052067
When I took literature last semester I had some of the same thing. Professor asked like five or more questions for 200 words. I just answered each question with a single sentence each but framed them all together like they were a single coherent thought
>BIG BUHRAAAIIN

>>23051936
When I'm writing a story, my understanding of themes can change over time. The more time a project continues, the more likely I am to reassess what is most relevant in the story. It's especially true for exhumed, unfinished work in which you may not understand the context any longer. There is value to the discovery moments in writing. Your story can get enriched with a new perspective as you write. But you can also get burdened by lack of focus.
I try to draw a scope of my story that allows for wiggle room, but I have to limit the scope in my notes. If I keep changing my criteria of when I consider it done, I will never call it done. The story would risk becoming a dumping ground for every whim that I have and I would never stop until I just give up.

My protagonist wants something that the pursuit of this want makes her miserable. Due to different factors, at one point she decides to let go of this want. However, a couple of chapters later, she mentally relives the inciting incident that caused her this want, thus re-motivating her into pursing this want, but changing her approach in order to not be as miserable as before.
Do you find this compelling, or would the in between chapters that she doesn't have this want be a slog? How could I properly work on the in between chapters to keep a sense of progress?

>>23052146
>female protagonist
dropped

>>23052152
Thanks for saving me the trouble of reading your shit advice

>>23052164
Sorry but if I wanted to listen to a woman, I wouldn't.

>>23052174
Nothing to be sorry about, you just outed yourself as a shit writer

>>23052095
Im trying this. Maybe its ok but I feel every answer needs further elaborating. But then if thats what she wanted why would the limit be 100 words.

>>23052146
My answer depends a lot on why she is pursuing X.
Is it an item? A person? Revenge? Knowledge?
I think that you could have a chapter were she is aimless, but you shouldn't dwell on it for too long.
And you say that she mentally relives the inciting incident, but that is kinda vague.
I just want to say that this reliving should be triggered by something that reminds her why she started.

>>23052199
She is investigating her father's murder (so knowledge and closure), and "reliving" the inciting incident consists of sorta PTSD reliving of the moment she found his corpse, making her feel that she still hasn't let go of this moment and the only way she'll be able to move on is to know why he died.

>>23052183
Online-assisted literature homework has a standard formula.
>sixteen week semester replies need 100 words per reply
>eight week semester replies need 200 words per reply
Don't overthink it. Your answers don't have to be thorough or even intelligent. They just have to be on topic, and address something. Retarded people get through college, you can do it too. It's just like highschool, part of it is actually learning the material, part of it is learning what and how they grade.

>>23052181
Name 5 great novels with a female protagonist.

>>23052221
Also consider that the intellectual rot in college is deep. Colleges want to keep students in as long as possible for the money, and that means they have to pass most all of them. In a lot of 1st and 2nd year classes now (it was different ten years ago) a rubric looks like this:
>25% of your grade is attendance
>this means responding to a question every other class
>25% of your grade is quizzes or something
>this is just homework or stupid things in class and is basically graded like attendance, just do it
>25% of your grade are the three normal tests
>25% of your grade is the final
An F student of the 20th century is a C student today. All you have to do is show up every day, then make 50s on the tests. There might be some old professors at big universities with tenure that are brutal, but smalls colleges tend to hire freshly minted professors with standards that reflect the ADHD phone-augmented brain.

>>23052146
>Due to different factors, at one point she decides to let go of this want.
So this would typically be the end of the story. There is the old screenwriting technique of the false ending that you could use. Basically, the initial situation or inciting incident has an inherent set of outcomes, and at the end of the second act you explore one of these outcomes as a false ending, either with the main character or a secondary character. The ending is false because although the character may get what they want, it is not what they actually need.

Now to your point about going back to the inciting incident, in fiction, you should never regress. The next stimulus should always be greater than the previous one. Rather than falling back to what already happened, you should try and figure out how you can make things even more urgent, even more compelling and tense. Think about the ending of Jane Eyre, Jane abandons Edward at the climax (false ending: she ends up with St. John) and then gets a prophetic dream compelling her to return (this in my opinion was a bit weak, news of the fire should have reached her ears by more natural means instead, but then it wouldn't be as gothic). Imagine if she just remembered old times with Edward instead, its not nearly as urgent or motivating.

>>23052211
I think that having a chapter where she is seriously thinking about quitting (effectively no different than actually quitting if it negatively effects her ability to continue) would be perfectly fine.
Now, this does depend somewhat on your own character, and if other are watching her be self destructive, but people who can't see a clear end goal or who think that they've failed/ aren't making progress, are likely to falter.
Adding this chapter can have the effect of causing her to double down, and if I was writing it, I would have those around her assume that she's not actually any less miserable despite her seemingly being happier during this investigation, causing her to try and convince them that she has actually changed for the better without giving up.
I have just written something like this, where a man's friend is convinced that him being fine with hearing that he can't have a child with his wife is actually him having a mental break and that he needs to confront this before he snaps and hurts somebody.
The answer is that he is fine because he views the problem as solvable, despite characters within the setting who are very knowledgeable telling him that it is actually impossible.
He hides that he is even going to look for a solution because the ones he can think of would require him doing things that would likely have him killed before he has a chance to implement them.
He isn't even doing it because he must have a child with her, he's adopted himself, and sees no issues with adopting a child, but he can't stand that someone is telling him no, that he has no choice in this and nobody is going to help solve it because of reasons that they refuse to tell him.

>>23051969
If you were any good you would do it at all. But you don't, so to Hell with you.

>>23052249
>The next stimulus should always be greater than the previous one.
This is an interesting point, I'll keep it in mind plotting this particular section. Big thank

>>23052255
>thinking about quitting
I like your ideas, I'll definitely work with the angles you're giving me. Thanks!

>>23052223
Jane eyre
Pride and prejudice
Gone with the Wind
Alice in Wonderland
Anna Karina

>>23052380
Work out an ending to build to. That way you can gage whether you are escalating things too much or too little.

>>23052141
That matches my own experience in some ways. Would you say that some themes have a shelf life, either for the writer or the reader? I kept running into that for a while, either that or as I developed a theme, it proved itself not as interesting as it was initially.

>>23052391
>Jane eyre
>Pride and prejudice
>Gone with the Wind
crap
>Alice in Wonderland
little girl, not a woman
>Anna Karina
that's exactly one example

Are there any good, non-pozzed-up magazines/sites to submit short stories to?

>>23052233
but do you think theyll care about too much words?

>>23052484
For a particularly driven author, there are themes that never stop driving him. For O'Connor it was the Gospel. For McCarthy it was death. For Ligotti it is consciousness.
But I think some of us have to explore different themes, even if there is an overarching flavor to our work. Maybe it is because we see nothing left to say on that theme, or it could be we feel we could not or should not say more.

>>23052597
read the instructions carefully
>at least
You could probably put in 150 words but nobody cares. Just don't inconvenience the professor with much more reading than he expects.

>>23052572
>non-pozzed-up
no

>>23052572
>Are there any good, non-pozzed-up magazines/sites to submit short stories to?
4chan dot org

>>23052604
NTA, I underwent some kind of alchemical transformation due to writing and found that whatever I was writing about before became juvenile and uninteresting to me. I believe that it's both our ability to understand and express the theme that keeps it fresh. I'm not going to slag on fantasy but I was reading and writing fantasy and suddenly found the vast majority of it to be saying and doing very little, it wasn't challenging and was expressing a wish more than making a useful statement. It may be more than thematics and have to do with intent but I haven't really thought this through.

My book looks great, and it's finished. It's a memoir about all this fucked up shit I've been through with the justice system and mk ultra brainwashing shit. Anyway this book is fucked up. It's a memoir written in first-person limited. But nobody would believe half the shit in it, so I figure just sell it as fiction.
It has science elements and horror but half of it is comical. If I describe the themes in abstract it could sound like high literature. But if I describe the plot point-by-point it sounds like the shittiest fiction idea you've ever heard.
Who do you push a manuscript to, if it doesn't fit neatly into a genre? I guess I'll just keep trying random agents that sound like they vaguely fit.

Newfag here. Only book writers are welcome here?

How about comic book writers? Or video game scripts writers?

>>23053272
I would check /co/s catalogue for comics but none of the /v/ boards seem appropriate. I would suppose it's fine here

>>23045934
I need some thoughts on this premise.
>Year is 2125
>Earth has succumbed to matriarchy
>The police and army are controlled by women with their brain chips
>Women have poisoned Earth's atmosphere with a chemical called "Estrogelium", which only affects those who do not have estrogen
>For men who are exposed to the atmosphere, will suffer a slow and painful death
>Only antidote is consuming female bathwater
>Because the society no longer has any use for men, they have been reduced to pets...
>The "pet men" are treated like toys. Some fight in gladiator arenas, some are human chess pawns, others in zoos, and some in wildlife reserves where women and their robots hun them for sport
The story follows four different POVs
>a) A woman political who gives secretly creates a male terrorist group so they can assassinate her rivals, so she can take over
>b) A woman why is sympathetic to men, and after she is caught trying to help men escape, She is thrown to a wildlife reserve to the mercy of cavemen living there.
>c) A male guerilla fighter who has been able to hijack military drones and his guest to liberate concretion camps
>d) A male gladiator who hopes to escape Earth by stealing a spaceship
>e) A man who has been able to prosper in a matriarchy, and has enough influence and wealth to destroy it, but chooses not to because he feels apologetic

So, allegories are pretty self-evident, a) is Marxist feminism, b) is humanism, c) is Darwinism, d) is pacifism, e) is capitalism

>>23053320
It sounds like crap listed it out. But if you put it into practice and lay on the elements slowly it could pan out.

>>23051101
Not useful, but thanks.

>>23048676
>Mfw

>>23045934
Trying to write this intro to this novella. I'm stuck because I want it to focus on how fast food companies own childrens memories because they subliminally associate good memories in childhood with their brand. And now because McDo is shittier than it's ever been, there's almost a void in people.

I want to sew the seeds in the main characters that these companies own your soul essentially, but I am stuck on how to introduce this concept. I was thinking of the MC coming home to show her roommate a pamphlet that some vegan cultist gave her about how Fast food companies own your minds, but it's written in this propaganda manifesto sort of way as to make it look ridiculous. Then, given the fact that nobody likes vegans, they sort of make fun of them and then go on with their lives. The twist is that several children have been dying eating at that restaurant, but they also had pre-existing medical conditions which makes it complicated.

Anyways, unsure of how to introduce this concept of fast food companies owning your mind through subliminal childhood manipulation.

>>23053320
>four
>lists five
All right

>>23053457
What POV are you going to use?

>>23052941
>>23052604
Thanks anons. It seems like some events change one's internal, total value structure and fundamental axioms believed to be true about the world, which invalidates a work entirely when they are challenged and shown to be false or useless. I had a similar experience where I stuck my dick in crazy and everything I was working on prior was completely invalidated by my total lack of judgement or ability to recognize a situation for what it was, due in no small part to my own shortcomings, and the whole affair changed everything on a very deep level. Much in the way stepping on a landmine changes one's opinion of war. I'll probably run with that angle as far as my own own experience dropping a project goes.

>it could be we feel we could not or should not say more.
that's such a beautiful way to put it. I do think a story can become belabored and devalued by going back and retreading the same themes again and again. Retroactively even, some authors keep harping on a theme and it ruins their previous books.

>>23053336
I guess my biggest concern it has already been done. But I suppose everything has been done, but nothing identical.

>>23053464
yeah, last second change, I decided to split d) and e)

>>23053485
Third omniscient but I do like to move the camera around to get close to the character. But it's very much omniscient

>>23053320
>>23053545
The bathwater thing is just stupid but if you make it "vaginal excretions" then the main cure is eating pussy and bathwater is just a watered down version

>>23053578
How is it stupid?
Women and men have different skills, bathwater has skin cells, therefore it has estrogen-product

So I never posted anything in these threads, but since I'm currently working to publish something I was looking for an opinion..
Specifically I'm concerned about how engaging the start of my novel might be for a reader, since that's usually a pretty big barrier to cross. I had decided to start in-medias-res, with the protagonists already on their journey without much context given right away, only sprinkling a few hints across the early chapters. I did this because I wanted to really lock in on the "Show don't tell" rule, among other things, but I'm worried the reader might not get everything that's going on without me being explicit. In particular I never explain or show how these people first met or how the journey itself started.
I understand that, without much context, it's hard to get the picture, and I guess the execution is what counts, but I was wondering what you think about this particular subject in writing. I was once told to "start the story at the latest possible point", and I found it a compelling argument, but is it really the best kind of advice?

I might also attach a screenshot of the first few paragraphs just to give an idea. I'm not entirely confident in my english prose, however, since I'm a dirty ESL, but the more critique the better, which is why I translated the entire novel
Before you ask, I plan on publishing in my native language, but you never know.

>>23053457
>nobody likes vegans

I wish there were more books about this.

A small favor:

This is a storyboard of a huge rambling tale told in comic form. It was never intended for public consumption, but circumstances had me doing these strips in sketchbooks to pass the time in waiting rooms, then continued in more comfortable places in the same way,primarily because the story was compelling enough for me to pursue. The folks at /ic/ cannot see beyond the borders of their own preferences, and as a "product" it fails,but I want to know how the writing stands up. To combat the cramped panels, I experimented with isolating them and making them into a video format. An hour's leisurely fiddling, and here it is...

https://youtu.be/jeNSwSU-jlE?si=I3oPNvTz7Mr42KPw

Does it help? Does it work? Should I attempt more? I never had proper feedback about anything, and need to know. Through the characters I have found profundity, and cannot tell how others will do. Thank you.

>>23053758
Everything about this stirs some primal memory from early webcomics and I'm not sure if you're fucking with me, it's oddly familiar. Nothing salvages wordiness in comics. Call it a western LN (y'know, a children's book) with illustrations like many of them have and it would probably work well.

How can I, a cis male, get away with including sexual peril in my stories?

>>23042242
I got a new personal best today. 1,000 words in 56 minutes. I didn't even feel like writing today! (As if that matters; I will write every day, like it or not, at a minimum until this WIP is done.)
That supreme speed is probably because I got to the scene which inspired me to write this book in the first place. Had a lot of fun writing it, and it turned out even better than I envisioned in my head, perhaps a year and change ago.
I might write more later just because the writing bug is clearly with me today.

>>23045991
These aren't universal rules by any means, but they apply to around 90% of cases.

>>23046222
The first one, but modern audiences are less partial to books opening with a monologue.

>>23046804
Grass/Plant Life? Electricity? That's about all I've got.

>>23047473
>>23047519
Both too true. I dread rewriting my first chapter, because it...kind of sucks.

>>23048923
I have a setting I worldbuilt on and off for a little over two years. It's expansive enough that I have enough prompts for the rest of my life. My current WIP stems from a footnote in a document I had listing in-world historical events.

>>23047478
Good stuff. I've found what matters most is consistency.

Is anyone here writing literary fiction? I remember some southern gothic anons but that was about it.

>>23051969
>>23052059
>>23052174
>>23052494
Fuck off, Frank. This is why everyone hates you.

>>23054120
Yeah, still around, but I don't have any major work in the works; most I've put on the page recently was flash fiction shitposting to amuse myself.
>>23025306

>>23053643
Necessary exposition usually takes a paragraph at most. Two if it's truly complicated. Anything more is an author's mental illness coming to the surface, 'needing' to explain everything. As long as you aren't being intentionally vague, readers appreciate clear scenes and minor infodumps.

In fantasy, I feel like it's something everyone expects and no one notices as long as it's short and clear. Just don't explain a fucking fictional board game or open with anything that reads remotely like that and you're good. TV guide can catch you up on every soap opera in 2 languages in less than 4 pages. Novels are mostly written by men for men and rarely get as complicated.

>>23054154
Good to hear, I don't see much talk about bone standard novels and it gets a little boring troubleshooting YA serials. I want to see /lit/ deconstruct a good children's book, I think we all have something to learn from the real masters.

>>23054203
That's a good idea, actually. Rather than deconstruct, though, it might benefit most writers to strip everything to the foundation and write a whimsical little short children's story.

>>23054492
It's when you get into the big names and start looking at the mechanics of what they do that it's a cross between what genre fiction wishes it was or used to be or is now, only good, and this very unique approach to the novel. All at once. You have a masterful mystery novel and a greek epic written with all the psychological nuance of James or Flaubert, for 5th graders. I try to structure my work like that but these books will have 50 chapters and 5 plates spinning across 120 pages. Then they end.

It's pure brilliance and I don't know if trying to do it without having an eye for it would yield anything worth reading. There are a lot of shit children's books out there and they don't stand the test of time. You think kids will read anything, and they will, once, and then they learn to ask for a sure thing.

My 15k word erotica short has raked in $300 so far. have I officially made it?

>>23054605
Yes. Now write another one and buy a Kangol and nice bowling shirt. You're in the big leagues now and need the look to match.

For a brief moment I thought I was still reading a writing manual. It's time for bed.

>>23054723
>why do men always use sound effects in stories?
Almost no one does. This whole interaction sounds so artificial anon.
It might be the best if you sleep on it after all.

>>23054120
Yes, I'm still here. Very busy so I'm missing lots of threads, but still making progress. Decided to write a novella this summer while my other work gets edited. Might be better to get something out there than finish the next novel.

Not enough of our writing in here, so I'll be posting some excerpts from my current project over the next couple of days. Just under 900 words, a scene where I rip my main character's first apparent win away from him in brutal fashion.
Feel free to reply with your own writing, gents.

https://files.catbox.moe/9nzwkv.pdf

Non-english fantasyslop authors, what online platforms do you use? Royalroad isn't very ESL friendly

>>23055605
I beg to differ. It's only ESLs who could appreciate the mountain of dung through which this 'Royal Road' winds.

https://files.catbox.moe/cwn9du.pdf

Here we go. It's the first draft so it is what it is, but what do you think about the story?

>>23055829
>It is evident that, history in all its stories of humankind, has greatly missed one of her most
relevant stories to this day
jfc, post an outline or summary if you want crit on the story. Nobody wants to read an unedited first draft.

>>23055424
I'm finding that novellas are a special kind of hell. I've a story on a tight-ish clock of 2 months and realistically 8-10 chapters of discrete stuff happening at most. I'm having to think of it in terms of a hardcore EP because there just isn't enough there for a novel but a short story wouldn't do it justice.

>>23055874
none of that matters, you just suck at story structure

>>23055879
shoo shoo troll-kun

>>23055885
it's not a troll dude
if you think the page count dictates the structure of a plot you just havent done your homework

Some days I just can't get in the right mindset to write. I stare at the same paragraph for half an hour and nothing clicks. I walk it off, grab a snack, scroll, try again, still nothing. Eventually I sleep then the next day I write like a maniac for 8hrs straight.
What is this? Is it possible to break through the bad days? If my brain says no, I don't know how to force it to.

>>23055890
>plot
It affects pacing, presentation and scope. I have a structure in mind and a way I want it to flow. It may well be that I'm not talking about plot, because I wasn't at all.

>>23055927
you were, you just don't realize it, because you don't know what the fuck that nub is at the end of your forearm. maybe it IS your ass.

>>23055926
I'm the same, except the next day I don't write either. And the next one. And the next. It's been going on for a couple years now.

>>23053797
Let's try again.

I don't want or need criticism of the art. The whole 180+ page run was never supposed to be my Product, but made for some future date where I could do it properly in my Photoshop legerdermain assembly method, like this one. What I was seeking is opinions on the writing, sentiments, and,dare I say,"wisdom",especially if any part of this could be classified as such. The video isolating the panels was to aid in its palatability,but if I must attempt a prose summary of the strip to make it simpler to process, I will. It is through peering out the eyes of these characters that revelations manifest,and I am often surprised by what appears under my pen at times. But I am understandably prejudiced in this regard. I need confirmation in any case.

How important are emotions to characters i would prefer to avoid them since they don't make sense anyway

>>23056163
autistic niggas be like
ngmi.

>>23056126
>>23053758
It's way too wordy, yet nothing is being said.
>I need confirmation in any case.
You won't get it because it's bad. Go read Bone or something.

>>23056191
I'm writing an autist like that right now who just keeps re-encountering the tragedy of his old life and feeling nothing about it. He's going to break eventually. It works for some characters, when their lack of emotion is incongruent with their actions. Or you talk about what they do as a function of how they feel.

>>23056237
Autism doesn't mean emotionless and it doesn't mean lack of emotional depth either. It means he can't comprehend others' emotions and intention. It's a communication problem. I had a friend that had full blown autism as a birth defect (mother did drugs) and unless you established rapport with him a certain way, he would take everything as an insult no matter what you did. You had to talk to him in a way that made sense to him. And then there is the kind of autist that doesn't realize when he is offending someone or any kind of tactful communication, he will just ignore it.

>>23056260
I mean the character is autistic in the sense that he's misinterpreting other's actions and emotions and ignoring or unable to understand his own feelings. it's not your 4chan/MtG tournament spergs but it is a kind of autism. He, in a way, only considers a small group of friends to be people and is extremely blind to how his actions are perceived and how he presents himself. He's ostensibly an emotionless husk performing a lot of empty actions by rote but there's a lot under the surface, it is a novel and that's the fun of a novel.

Speaking of, is the fun of a novel more in figuring out who a character is in an archetypal sense of recognizing in him people you may know and the surprise therefore in exactly how he fucks up and deals with the consequences more than what he's going to do as an unknown event (because at that point the "what" is usually telegraphed far in advance), or is there something else to it that I'm missing?

>>23056284
Not everyone sees it the same way, but one simplistic view of the fun of a novel is seeing the protagonist overcome "the mistaken belief". There is something about his character that creates problems, and he is mistaken about how to treat that problem, which can manifest in various forms through the setting, events, characters, and ideas that build upon that. The story arc is exploring how he deals with it.

>>23056284
For me the fun of the novel is seeing all its clockwork converge on one transcendant moment. That, and emotional moments of forgiveness, reunion, self-sacrifice, triumph etc. The bit in Count of Monte Cristo where the Count finally reveals himself to the Morrels and Morrel jr. calls everyone in and tells them to fall on their knees always gets me.

>>23056310
>seeing the protagonist overcome "the mistaken belief"
That's a good summation. We're not reading about heroic deeds or some kind of ideal, which is why the monomyth template never quite sat right with me. I can see how Genji and Quixote are novels, a lot of genre fiction isn't by that definition but don't tell anyone that.

Sometimes, like right now when guzzling whiskey and sitting out watching the drizzle come and go, I'm struck by how profound it is to be writing within that same continuum in any capacity. I have a character who, while he may not be fundamentally interesting or relatable, is fucked up in some way and about to do a bunch of dumb shit that I can't help but find captivating and cringeworthy, because of course I relate to him. I know others will because anecdotes go over well of his escapades doing very little.

>>23056363
>seeing all its clockwork converge on one transcendant moment
YES. Yes. yes when it all goes into that stream of blathering in the wake (or was it ulysses?) when molly who can't seem to shut up or use punctuation takes the whole thing and without really talking about it talks about it all, yes that was, I don't know I believe the transscendence, the kind of letter that makes you want to tug yourself off three times and fuck the farts out of a women, yes that is also the great joy of a novel. Yes.

>have idea
>start working on it
>it snowballs into an overcomplicated mess far beyond my current skills
>"Ok, I'll save it for later and write something simple first"
>my next idea also turns into a mess
>say fuck it and try to write it anyway
>something IRL gets in the way and I go weeks without writing
>rinse and repeat
lol

>>23056399
7 pages. Just make the one scene from >>23056363
work in 7 pages. Read some Carson McCullers. I don't like her short stories in Sad Cafe as much as the novels but I finally grew to appreciate what they did. Paint me a picture, resolve it and fuck off.

>>23056379
>a lot of genre fiction isn't by that definition but don't tell anyone that.
What is a lot of genre fiction, then?

>>23056442
Many fictional genres that were concurrent to the novel are explicitly not novels. It's a similar case today. A lot of fantasy is pretty much a romance or myth, not even a bildungsroman because it's all fated and shit and the protagonists have little to no psychology to speak of. It's a set format and giving them some character doesn't make it a novel in the way the ones that truly question the myth with an extremely fallible human does. The rest is just stories and modern folklore.

I don't think one is better than the other in any way, because the crime novel deals with the psychology of either the criminal or Sherlock Holmes hisself, and the kind of man who would follow him around, but I do think that a book or a story has to do something that the vast majority of shit written or told before ~1500 or 1600 in the west wasn't. It's all stories and accounts and cuentas and things told and casebooks and handbooks and logs and logues: you have to call it a novel when you're doing the thing that makes it a novel.

Some things are called novels that aren't, but even the need for a subtitle suggests something worth considering about the word being used to define a book.

>>23056493
Case in fictional point. Say I'm writing a children's book. It's about a young woman running a hat shop and how her life is destined to be boring because her sisters are shipped off to sexier trades where you meet men. She's curst by a witch because a man came into her shop and she talked to him on the street by accident once, finding him insufferable.

Now it's about how a pragmatic old woman seeks out the most dangerous man in the world, the only woman who told him to fuck off and lived. For he eats the hearts of the lovely ones who fall for his irresistible wizard charms.

It's about Sophie. Howl and his lifestyle are problems to solve. It's a novel in that sense. They're both shitty people, we're reading for how they overcome that; they're both powerful magicians from the start so that isn't even a question raised. She breaks into a man's house because the dick and the heart want two different things and makes friends with a hellfire demon like women are wont to do.

Do you know how many women want to fuck book Howl? Some knobby looking welshman who preens himself in the bathroom for hours and mopes for days, literally exuding sludge and smog? ALL OF THEM. Book Howl doesn't have the anime filter and Patrick Bateman voice and girls still want to grind his dick into a powder. He's regularly described as a slitherer-outer and is turned into all sorts of things that is absolutely also is in the sequels.

That's a novel. You show one psychology so well that another becomes attractive.

>>23056533
On that note, I'm writing a story about witchcraft and mountain wizards or something through that lens for reasons that escape me. All my stories are about that. No idea why. Harry Potter was too greek epic for me. Too big and consumerist, although it did titillate my senses and aggravate that dwarven, dragon mind that the Hobbit opens with and destroys before the end of the first act. Anon who >>23050152
>I also liked Chuck Palahniuk's book on writing, 'Consider This'.
I finally started it and read the whole thing after going straight to the back like you told me to. It's good. He's still good. I haven't read a book past Haunted or so but now I would. It's funny how much I just agree with instead of find insightful, but I also learnt what egotismals don't learn, which is that, just because you agree with what you read, it doesn't mean you have nothing to learn from it, there are always missing factors to things you thought you knew or some anon recommended 15 or so years after the last time you checked your frame of reference.

I want to send his ass an email and see how he feels about the LoA, because he's worthy as a hot living author like some of the rest put there posthumously.

>>23056589
Duolingo subs go up with that chapter, it's one of the old ones that halfway work, unless they changed it since I was; it's a powerful book and propaganda but no one notices how even though she used to talk about it in interviews.

>>23054154
>>23055424
laban at firemail dotto cc, if you ever want something.I'll spare you until my drafts are ready but I would like read some similar content.

>>23057146
I've written that down. I'll get in touch and we can email about lit at some point, and I can share more of my novella in a few months.

>>23057205
I remembered you or the other one asked to get together and I said after new years, so I am, right now. I'll retract the rest for whoever read it, it was an offer I don't even want to follow up with.

>>23057237
>I'll retract the rest for whoever read it, it was an offer I don't even want to follow up with.
Sorry but what do you mean by that?

>>23057260
I wrote a check with my mouth that my ass can't cash and didn't realize it until now. We're all in some kind of mutual spell, so to speak. Probably whether we want to be or not. I apologize. I'll read your stories as long as you guide me through finishing the one that's been riding me as much as I've been riding him for the past decade.

>>23057287
Oh that makes sense. It took me a long time to develop into a manuscript I was comfortable with, but I've become more sure of myself.
I've read over a dozen books from or adjacent to /lit/ at this point, usually after they were published. I'm not the best critic but I can give feedback at the appointed time, especially for an anon that wants to write litfic. I don't need anything in return, just for iron to sharpen iron.

>>23057314
>I don't need anything in return, just for iron to sharpen iron.
Shoot me an honest letter and I'll spin you a yarn you can say what you want about in private. That's the point. That was the point.

How do you know when you should give up i’ve been trying to write for 11 years and it’s still all awful.

>>23057446
I had my ego inflated with being webpublished on some random asshole's fansite before you were born and getting 3 positive reviews on my first grandia 2 fanfic. If you haven't gone out of your way to look for that kind of review and response for your publishing debut, I don't know what to say. It's only gone uphill since then because I had good critique and then stopped writing for a decade before I found better feedback.

>>23057470
> I don't know what to say.
That much was obvious. You came nowhere near having a point. I’m sure writing a great Grandia fanfic just makes you the smartest retard.

>>23057536
I see the problem, you missed how it was only uphill from there in your own misery. I suggest killing yourself or growing out of whatever base creature made that post. You fell for every trap, all according to keikaku (TN: keikau means plan you chuuni bastard).

Writing a modern war based novel as journal entries over 2+ years timeline. Trying to place things properly along the line and keep a good pace. It's supposed to be as "real" as possible as it's based on real modern war at the ground level so I don't want to have a traditional story structure, but for the reader it does need to have a pacing that is engaging over time. Still trying to figure this one out structurally.

>>23057554
I would suggest reading Crane or ambrose bierce if you haven't already. I'll be a good sugar daddy and buy you his entire writings if you promise never to write about war again and show me your asshole or tell me how much you liked being fucked in it as a child or teenager. Because that's war in a nutshell on the soldier level.

>>23057574
>Red Badgefag in chat
Crane's writing is to Civil War era war what Lord of the Rings is to medieval war. Might as well be fantasy writing. NTA btw.

>>23057601
>stepping on the landmine of a biercefag muddying the waters
You're like the deaf kid who found his family murdered after running away from home for a few hours because your reading comprehension is about as good as his hearing.

Would anyone know of a good guide to writing horror and ghost stories?

>>23057660
Ambrose Bierce. They start being the same after a while but you don't need a guide to tell you that.

>>23057672
Are you referring to the writing book he wrote, Write It Right, or his work as a whole to use as reference and inspiration?

My story will be orated and I found that a spooky thing would be perfect.

>>23057686
His work as a whole, I'm going to have a chuckle if his book on writing is in here. It isn't. He pretty much invented the 2 page formula for spoppy shite. it gets old really fast.

>>23057660
Only kind of guide I have. I hope it helps somehow.

>>23057686
>orated
I've been listening to a lot of horror audio dramas lately, a lot of them are shit, but the best one that really stood out to me had almost no dialogue.

>>23051010
sad

>>23053833
>get away with
who’s going to stop you?

>>23057810
Saved!

1.why does chatgpt write better than me?
2.how can i become better at writing, without reading books myself?specifically at vocabulary i guess. I honestly hate reading and since childhood my mind would almost immediately wander off and i would instead daydream about pleasant things.also my memory is quite bad and these two moments combined have resulted in poor vocabulary. i wish i could access to way more words in real time. the thing is, when i am writing some fiction, i end up looking up synonyms and definitions for every other word and 99% of the words that i receive are words that i already know actually, i just didn't remember to use them. as for new-to-me words, even when i look up their definition, i am sure i am not using them "correctly'. i am ESL but the situation with my first language is even worse, because i don't like to talk to people, so i haven't used it much

>>23058575
>how can i become better at writing, without reading books myself
lol

>>23058577
What lol? Go fuck yourself. lol

>>23058038
Quiet Please?

>>23058582
No, you go fuck yourself you lazy, whining loser.

>>23058585
I'm not this guy but I concur regardless

>>23058575
why the fuck do you want to write if you hate reading? lmfao

>>23058668
Because i genuinely believe i am among the best creators of fictional worlds, i sometimes envision such wonderful things that the sensation is better than drugs

>>23058702
>I have unwarranted self importance
You should really imagine someone you don't like saying things before you say them.

>>23058702
okay so just another schizo, not interested
see people say similar stuff all the time. delusions of grandeur aren't unique to you
seek help, probably. or don't. idc if the schizo schizos. don't shit up my thread though

>>23058715
And you should really not assume things about ppl
I dont have such spiteful function to "imagine someone you don't like saying things before you say them"
I dont even read books and you showed to be retarded. Guess melting your eyeballs with an endless stream of artificial letters really takes a toll on ya

>>23058735
meds
also an English book

>>23058733
I asked a question in the proper thread, "about writing" , but instead of giving a nice and human answer you decided to reply in snideful & provocative - For what reason other than being compelled by your own self importance? Scum that you are yes

>>23058733
>>23058715
>>23058738
He's trolling. Ignore him.

>>23058735
Even if you really did have such an amazing imagination (you don't, you are just mentally unstable) you will never achieve success because you can't even pass as an English speaker on a shitpost forum, much less in long form literary fiction.

>>23058702
>I Am Very Smart
The meme is stupid but it's also literally you
Anyway have you tried, like, teaming up with someone who can actually write?

There should seriously be a CCP take over the entirety of the WWW; I am genuinely sick & tired of interacting with stupid teenagers & people permanently stuck in teen-age, I would like to be able to see date of birth of every single person that me or them attempt to interact with one another

>>23058742
This is schizophrenic erasure and I won't stand for it.

>>23058747
he says while on 4chan, an anonymous site
you know there are places with more vetting right? this is a problem of your own creation
wait you aren't accepted into real professional communities?
also your problem

>>23058743
>>23058744
You seriously operate on assumption after assumption
Never mentioned a single desire for "achieving success"
You are genuinely cretins
Didn't expect that "the most sophisticated sub-forum" on this site would still be inhabited by tranime types
Goodbye, bitch. I won't be replying to you anymore.
Let's hope your mother gets impaled by a steel beam in a traffic accident with an heavy industrial vehicle

>>23058761
cool thanks bye, you were funny to laugh at while you lasted

>>23058761
See you when you're bringing me my Uber Eats, bitch

>>23046095
Technically my only published work to date is a ten page Bionicle fanfiction I would work on in between actual writing projects.

Getting people to read is so fucking difficult, lads

>>23059057
This is one reason I write fan fiction

Why is it so difficult to get myself to write. You'd think with how many novels, novellas, short stories and even fanfics I've gone through, I would be more inclined to penning some of my own. But whenever I open a text editor or a notebook I just stare at the empty page for 10 minutes, then close it and go do something else.

Do someone know a acceptable writing group? Discord or anything else that isn't linked to 4chan

this board is unironically the only place where I'm sure to get a satisfactory answer (after several troll answers) but it's still 4chan

r/writing is filled with morons who focus on everything except for writing qualitative work.

The writing forum of Royal road are filled with the same kind of idiot in addition to some stupid fixation on litrpg

I'm currently writing and publishing a novel but I would like feedback about what I can improve

>>23048067
then why don't you do a girl?

>>23059328
royral road is worse than you imagine
because they're so insular that they've adopted some perverse idea of what good writing is. and it's all the worst possible habits they'll recommend

>>23059328
>after several troll answers
My recommendation to construct an altar to Dionysus and request his blessing was completely sincere.

>>23059328
I used to run one and I met some decent guys there, but it was long before Discord rot had set in and destroyed the possibility of online community.
But it really depends on your writing level. I get the feeling that you are a beginner, and if so no one has a motive to help you improve, because you can't offer critique in return. There are sites, usually paid, where you can seek out professional expertise. I believe reedsy offers such a service.

>>23059328
>r/writing is filled with morons who focus on everything except for writing qualitative work.
R*ddit is pathologically incapable of responding sincerely from a personal perspective (you can't have a wrong opinion or you're down voted) or criticizing the premise (because they loved beating the same dead horses). The problem elsewhere is that you don't want an anon, especially an unvetted one, in your writing group.

I will also add that I used to offer genuine crystals of the most relevant advice to people here, but 99/100 times the advice will be rejected and I'll be told I don't know what I'm talking about. So I don't do that anymore. There's no real point offering verbal advice to beginners because they don't have the experience to appreciate it.

>>23059635
There's nothing more tragic than the underappreciated critic... Stay strong, king.

>>23058575
You want to write, but you don't want to read? I can't even wrap my mind around that.
>>23058577
>>23058582
>>23058668
I don't usually agree with trolls, but yeah.
>>23058702
You may have fallen into the "worldbuilding trap".

>>23058747
You can go post on Weibo any time you want.

>>23059766
Over in the world of music, we have all these people who want to be a rockstar but don't listen to music, don't practice playing music, think playing other people's music will "steal their creativity" I shit you not, and are generally more attracted to the fantasy of being seen as a musician than any part of what it takes to be one, which is obsessive listening and autistic repetition of rote skills.

>>23059781
you nailed it
these dilettante writers need to be ground into pig feed at the soonest possible opportunity
you waste everybody's time

>>23059328
I didn't see anyone mention https://writing.stackexchange.com/ though they're about as bad as r/writing

>>23059787
I've been around the block a few times. The other half of anons here seem to be constipated shitposters taking a break from their fantasy heartbreaker. At least they try to write.

>>23059781
Hmmm, yeah...definitely a lot of wannabe writers here that have no apparent interest in writing, and just want to be seen as a celebrity. One of the best guitarists I've ever encountered is Guy Martin. Check out https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=guy+martin+guitarist . Despite his obvious skill, he doesn't play guitar for a living...he's a building contractor.

>>23059838
>>23059838
>>23059838

>>23059825
>definitely a lot of wannabe writers here that have no apparent interest in writing, and just want to be seen as a celebrity
Yeah, that's literally me. I don't even care about being a big celebrity or anything, just thinking about how cool it would be to show my work to friends and even anons and get at least some praise for it.

>>23059844
I bet of you, pursue literally any other craft
for everyone's benefit

>>23059844
That's healthy motivation. I mean the reality tends to be that your friends don't care and anons are jealous dickweeds who are mad you have something to show for your effort, but you get one friend and a few anons who appreciate it from time to time.

>>23059547
Yes, I'm starting to think that it might actually be one of the worst community

>>23059597
I don't understand. It's a inside joke?
>>23059608
I didn't find any feedback service on reedsy, but I will try to search online

For now I use chatgpt with a custom ai with ressources/instructions I carefully selected to get feedback. it's mostly bof-good while not being great and I can testify that they really reduce the quality of GP4 because months ago it was correct-good.

I'm not dumb enough to follow all the advices, I don't even follow the majority of them

As for using it to write? No. Mostly as a corrector and to rephrase some paragraphs

some really have a problem to think that it can actually remplace writers. It's more a tool than anything else and it's better to not be dependent of it

>>23059612
Understandable. Does someone have a idea about how to enter these private groups? Writing contest? Luck? I just continue to write expecting that one day I will be noticed?
>>23059789
I remembered but it's like you said in addition to being far more empty

>>23059854
your goal shouldn't be to get noticed
your goal should be to become a good writer
latching on to this objective of 'being noticed' leads to you unconsciously making yourself a lolcow, like gardner or the unrealtrannies

>>23059854
>I don't understand. It's a inside joke?
No. I have no idea who you are but a few threads ago someone asked how to get ideas. I said to construct an altar to Dionysus and request his blessing. I am completely sincere in that.
We live in the age of technique (the Appollonian). The problem is art without a Dionysian core is SHIT. It's pointless. The Dionysian is the blood and spirit of the art. The Appollonian is the jar you trap it in. If you exclusively focus on the Appollonian aspect you are constructing a jar with nothing in it. It's paint by numbers. There is absolutely no point in completely "standardized" art with nothing to say and no idiosyncrasies that make art worthwhile.
I swear to God if I see one more post asking how someone can standardize their art so it "sells" I will write a strongly worded post expressing my profound disapproval.

>>23059882
I see. You got the wrong person

>>23059861
???
Did you read the thread? I want feedback to improve my craft so I want to get noticed to get feedback

>>23059861
If I wanted to be noticed I wouldn't be here, instead I would be writing some litrpg on royalroad

>>23059931
*if I didn't care about being a writer but just about being noticed

>>23056206
Summarize it,in a sentence.

I could take your criticism more seriously if I could grasp your reading comprehension.

>"Examine the writing not the art"
Art BAD.
>"It's a storyboard, a work in progress."
TOO MANY WORDS.

Not exactly batting a thousand here. I even made the panels nice and big in the video version. There IS something going on,but I don't think you will do other than offer more inanity.

As for Bone,pic related is what that was ripping off. FoneBone. Cow races. If that is what your tastes druft towards...it explains a lot.

>>23059931
>>23059936
alright; well, my point stands regardless of whether you apply