/lit/ - Literature

>>23005660
The Idiot
Brothers Karamazov

None. You disappoint your father who's child still believes in fairy tales. Grow up

>>23005660
His atheism and your christcuckery are both symptoms of your genetic autism. He would feel exactly the same way as you would feel if he gave you a sam harris book

/\ (You)
|

>>23005660
keep your fairytale garbage to yourself

>i'm religious this week because i saw some tiktoks, help me start pointless family drama over this

Atheist niggas really act the most egotistical and childish of ways and expect you to become one of them
The way they carry themselves is self-refutting. (Now watch)

>hey dad some strangers online told me this book explains my faith, no i haven't read it

>>23005660
you should probably just recommend him jay dyer videos about the nuances of the essence energy distinction

>>23005705

>>23005672
This for any IQ level

Also for low IQ individuals something like Mere Christianity (not that I look down on that book) by C.S. Lewis

And for high IQ individuals maybe The Sickness Unto Death

>>23005660
>my father hates this subject
>for his birthday I'll give him a book about that subject

>>23005705
>become one of them
no, keep your retarded beliefs, just don't shove it in other people's faces

>>23005660
You know you're going to hell with us for wearing different kinds of clothing material at the same time right?

>>23005660
Only God Himself can help Him. Even so, here are some good Christian works.
>C.S. Lewis; Mere Christianity
>C.S. Lewis; The Weight of Glory
>Andrew Murray; Ultimate Surrender
>John White; Eros Defiled & Eros Redeemed
>The Bible, of course. If he doesn't have one, give him one. My father gave me two when I graduated high school. They sat unread until four years later when the Lord came into my life. Fourteen years on, I've nearly worn one to shreds and read the other almost every day.

>>23005690
>>23005693
>>23005700
>>23005704
>>23005709
>t. non-knowers
I pray you'll soon know.

>>23005660
The bible

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Stoning

>>23005660
>ughh noooo dad you don't understand, real Christianity is what Russian intelligence assets tell me it is, it's about being BASED and defending civilization

>>23005847
I pray you stop worshipping a kike

>>23005983
>muh ROOSHA
Go back faggot.

>>23006040
Pope Francis is not a godly man. He is even worse than the average politician because he pretends to represent God. The Catholic leadership who enables him are all guilty. I will continue to worship Christ, because He is the Son of God.

>>23006158
Blasphemer

>>23006158
Can you explain this?

>John 4:22 Salvation is of the Jews יוחנן 4:22 הישועה היא של היהודים Hebrews 7:14 Our Lord is descended from Judah אל העברים 7:14 אדוננו ירד מיהודה John 1:38, John 6:25 Jesus was called a Rabbi יוחנן 1:38, יוחנן 6:25 ישוע נקרא רב Mark 15:2 Jesus was called King of the Jews מרקוס 15:2 ישוע נקרא מלך היהודים Luke 2:39 Mary and Joseph followed Jewish law לוקס 2:39 מרים ויוסף פעלו על פי ההלכה היהודית Matt 13:54, Luke 6:6, John 18:20 Jesus taught in Synagogues מתי 13:54, לוקס 6:6, יוחנן 18:20 ישוע לימד בבתי כנסת Luke 21:37 Jesus taught in the Jewish Temple לוקס 21:37 ישוע לימד בבית המקדש היהודי Matt 5:17, Matt 12:5, Mark 10:19 Jesus taught Jewish Prophets were authoritative מתי 5:17, מתי 12:5, מרקוס 10:19 ישוע לימד את נביאי ישראל להיות סמכותיים Matt 23:1-3 Jesus taught others to obey Jewish law מתי 23:1-3 ישוע לימד אחרים לציית להלכה היהודית Matt 10:5-6 Jesus sends his disciples only to Jews, not Gentiles (non-Jews) מתי 10:5-6 ישוע שלח את תלמידיו רק לישראל, לא לגויים Matt 15:21-28 Jesus says he came only to Israel, not Gentiles, and calls Gentiles dogs מתי 15:21-28 ישוע אומר שהוא בא רק לישראל, לא לגויים, וקורא לגויים כלבים

>>23006040
>can't even tell he is being made fun of
catholics, russians, and amerisharters first pray to the same jewish sorceror

My grandparents were very religious, my dad turned out a fervent atheist as well, with also a great deal of contempt for the church (not to say absolute hate and disgust). I don't have such contempt for obvious reasons: I never went to church, religion is just a buzz in the background, a "god bless you" here and there and that's it. As I grew older I read the Bible, other christian and muslim books, I read a bunch of things from oriental religions as well, and so I began to understand a little bit more appeal of religion. Then, when I took my head out of the books, you know what I found out? It was just as bullshit as it ever was. One thing is to dwelve into the philosophy and history of religion to better understand it, but don't go out full christian just to push for a point of conflict with your father, which is what this is about. You are trying to "help him" understand that now you believe in the authority of a different father other than him, one he doesn't even believe. This is basically you coming to terms with the fact that you don't need your father as much as you did before. Maybe you could try a more healthy path without the fairy tales and larping. Also, God does not exist, get over it already, I can't believe people still take this seriously.

>>23005660
You're a very shitty son.

>>23006235
The Pope is a man. To liken him to God is what's blasphemy.

>>23006240
Yes, Christ is a Jew. Every aurthor of Scripture, with the exception of the chapter written by King Nebuchadnezzar, is a Jew. The early Church were predominantly Jews, and many Jews alive today worship Christ Jesus. The Lord God chose the Jews to be a nation of priests out of Mankind. They are our spiritually firstborn. Christ is God, King, and High Priest forever. He is the Messiah. He will come again, and before He does, there will be a reawakening of the Jews to the revelation of the Living God, and their reawakening will be life from the dead for mankind. The Lord will not abandon Jacob, and His faithfulness will not turn away from Israel.

>>23005660
You want your father to comprehend your closeness to God and even gain respect for Him and His church? Sorry, but no novel is gonna cut it.

This is the answer you don't want to hear, but have to understand. There is no single sequence of words you can string together and communicate to him that is going to magically change his mind.

You actually make him comprehend your faith? Then it has to start with YOU. How do you treat him? Do you honor him as our Lord commands, even when you disagree with him or when he's behaving in an unwholesome manner? Does he see you gaining strength and joy in your walk with Christ or does he think that it's a burden for you? Do you repay his evils with other evils of your own or with good, even when you think he doesn't deserve it?

The holy apostle Peter said in his first epistle, chapter 3, verses 1 & 2: [1] Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, [2] when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear.

Granted, you are his son, not his wife and he is your father, not your husband, yet the principle still stands.

Grow in your relationship with the Lord. Serve Him with joy. Pray to Him. Be thankful to Him for all the good he provides for you. Strive to keep yourself holy. Maybe your father will be won over by your conduct. If not, I highly doubt a novel is going to accomplish what you are seeking.

>>23005847
What is knowledge?

>>23005660
>I have a father who is a fervent atheist and harbors great contempt for the church
If your father hates something trying to force it on him will just make him hate it harder.

Just be a moral icon and be there for your father until he passes, that will do more than any words or books would ever do.

>>23005660

Your father is a good person because of his attitude, he is in the right, and he is rightfully ashamed of you. You have fallen into error and you are a disappointment to him for your unwarranted belief in a false christ and a false god. I am pleased to hear that your father is a "fervent" atheist, to the point of Anti-christianity. I hope that he harbors parallel contempt for islam, and every other form of patent nonsense.

>>23006361
Not today, Wittgenstein.

wonder how did he fuck up to have you turn out to be such retard.

>>23006240
>Matt 15:21-28 Jesus says he came only to Israel, not Gentiles

>Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Matthew 28:18-20

And now you know the rest of the story.

>>23006463
Why Israel?

>>23006498
To fulfill the covenant homie

>>23006240
Matthew 8:5-13

5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help.
6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”
7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”
8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed.
9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.
11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

Romans 9:6-13

6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”
8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”
10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac.
11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand:
12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”
13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

Matthew 28:16-20

16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.
17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Galatians 3:7-9

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.
8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”
9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

>>23006240
>>23006593
Galatians 3:26-29

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,
27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Psalm 117

1 Praise the Lord, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples.
2 For great is his love toward us, and the faithfulness of the Lord endures forever. Praise the Lord.

Psalm 86:9-10

9 All the nations you have made will come and worship before you, Lord; they will bring glory to your name.
10 For you are great and do marvelous deeds; you alone are God.

Psalm 105:1-4

1 Give praise to the Lord, proclaim his name; make known among the nations what he has done.
2 Sing to him, sing praise to him; tell of all his wonderful acts.
3 Glory in his holy name; let the hearts of those who seek the Lord rejoice.
4 Look to the Lord and his strength; seek his face always.

Psalm 72:17-19

17 May his name endure forever; may it continue as long as the sun. Then all nations will be blessed through him, and they will call him blessed.
18 Praise be to the Lord God, the God of Israel, who alone does marvelous deeds.
19 Praise be to his glorious name forever; may the whole earth be filled with his glory. Amen and Amen.

Psalm 67:3-7

3 May the peoples praise you, God; may all the peoples praise you.
4 May the nations be glad and sing for joy, for you rule the peoples with equity and guide the nations of the earth.
5 May the peoples praise you, God; may all the peoples praise you.
6 The land yields its harvest; God, our God, blesses us.
7 May God bless us still, so that all the ends of the earth will fear him.

Psalm 18:46-49

46 The Lord lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!
47 He is the God who avenges me, who subdues nations under me,
48 who saves me from my enemies.
You exalted me above my foes; from a violent man you rescued me.
49 Therefore I will praise you, Lord, among the nations; I will sing the praises of your name.

Psalm 82

1 God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “gods”:
2 “How long will you[a] defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked?
3 Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’
7 But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.”
8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.

>>23006240
>>23006593
>>23006596
Luke 9:51-56

51 When the days drew near for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem.
52 And he sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him.
53 But the people did not receive him, because his face was set toward Jerusalem.
54 And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, “Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?”
55 But he turned and rebuked them. And he said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of;
56 for the Son of Man came not to destroy people's lives but to save them.” And they went on to another village.

>>23005660
>my dad doesn't like christianity
>so for his birthday, I will gift him a book about christianity
kys

>>23005776
>>23006606
It‘s not being a terrible son if it‘s heckin based and christpilled

>>23005660
The Way of a Pilgrim

I kinda feel for OP though. My father was a physics STEM dude and he was disappointed when I told him I wanted to study philosophy, now 6 years later and I have a good job and he's shown an interest in phil, to the point of reading Sophie's World on his own, and being genuinely interested in Kant and Schopenhauer etc.

>>23005660
This book makes a strong case for the divinity and resurrection of Jesus

>>23005847
Your religion is literally a meme. Most christians, even priests of various denominations, have not fully read the Bible analytically and instead have just deeply internalized a literal "pop culture" concept of it that largely derives from shit like Dante's Inferno more than it does the Bible. Much like its older brother Judaism, it's fundamentally just an asshole death cult used as a vehicle for political aspirations for most of its existence and only after being defanged of most of its actual political power did that really change among its larger and older churches with its actual influence diffused and taken up by various pundits, the old institutions withering away and being left to fall into into bumbling attempts to cling to moral purity that makes them more sincere but still incompetent.

And that's before you get into how obvious the metaphorical scrubbing and stitching for various ideological purposes the Bible is, all th double standards, and bullshit surrounding its meaning, and its historical laughability.

Don't take that as some praise for atheism, which quickly devolved into its own dogmatic bullshit and started inventing its own gods, or most forms of later era pagan shit either but at least most of those faggots are just snowflakes or autists these days.

>>23006633
>Just repeat a meaningless praise and walk around like a bum. From time to time you will meet fellow schizos.

Misquoting Jesus
Why?Because Ehrman fully understands what its like to be a devoted christkek.

>>23006789
Bro did you even pay attention to the book? The whole point is the protagonist trying to make sense of what it means to repetitively perform that prayer and whether it is even possible to do so. It's an interesting look into orthodox doctrine about a very precise topic and a layman coming to grips with it. Lovely book.

>>23006311
>The Pope is a man. To liken him to God is what's blasphemy.
I mean "The church dictates God's word on earth and He will support their decisions so long as it does not directly conflict with his will enough to actually do anything about it" is a not inaccurate summation of Catholic theology more or less.

Now if that's legitimate or not, fair debate [personally if we're gonna play the game of theologic and historic argument, Orthodoxy is the strongest case amongst the Christian sects but even they have a weaker case than like, the Zoroastrians out of living religions]

>>23006785
Deranged schizo

>>23006796
He hasn't read it, he's a "Nietzschean New Atheist" who loves gay sex and thusly dislikes Christianity because it tells him profligate hedonism is bad and self-control is good.

>>23006794
You mean the guy who says one thing in his academic work and another in his popular writings? The guy who was forced to concede that St Paul did indeed view Jesus as divine but has been compelled to quibble over how precisely divine He was?

>>23006802
You ever notice how many Christians historically, from recent years on back, talk about Hell in a way that makes it blatantly clear they didn't read the bits of the Bible discussing Damnation at all? Ever wonder where they got it?

Dante's Fucking Inferno, you faggot. That's where. He took all the pop culture ideas about it in his day, conflated it some with remnants of the concepts of various other terrible afterlives, and wrote it into his self insert fanfiction for the first third and the priests of the day cottoned on really quick that people were lapping it up and even started to believe it themselves because the idea that faggots they didn't like would literally be tortured forever felt good because we're a naturally vindictive species to some degree.

That faggot Luthor literally started a schism for two reasons, to be a holier than thou cockweasel hungry for power, and to allow you faggots to read the Bible. He's been dead for centuries but all y'all faggots are still skimming for neat quotes and projecting rather than actually examining the work.

>>23006821
>one thing in his academic work and another in his popular writings
Lol I know christkeks love to claim this but it simply isnt true

Leave your father alone, you stupid faggot. Imagine if your father always gifted you books on atheism, always preaching atheism to you, would like that?
You seem mentally ill and you seek some kind of therapy.

>>23005660
RENE GIRARD

René Girard was a French historian, literary critic, and philosopher renowned for developing the ideas of mimetic desire, scapegoat mechanism, and how these concepts relate to various aspects of culture, including religion. If you're looking for an introduction to Girard's thought, especially in terms of how his memetic theory intersects with the Gospels, consider the following book:

"I See Satan Fall Like Lightning" (2001)

In this book, Girard applies his memetic theory directly to biblical texts, particularly focusing on the Gospels. He discusses how Christ's life and crucifixion challenge the cycle of mimetic rivalry and the scapegoating mechanism that he argues have been part of human cultures since their beginnings. This book provides one of the clearest applications of Girard’s mimetic theory to Christian theology and offers insight into how the Gospels can be seen as both a continuation and a radical break from the scapegoating practices embedded in various cultural myths.

You can also consider:
"The Scapegoat" (1982)
"Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World" (1978)

https://mimetictheory.com/mimetic-theory-resources/the-evangelical-subversion-of-myth/

>The Gospels, according to Girard, were the only text in which the Truth—a truth that had been expelled from human cultures—occupied the central place. The Gospel is true revelation, revealing the “things hidden since the foundation of the world,” including the founder murder of Cain and Abel and the founding murder that is at the heart of every culture but which humans have done their best to hide behind myths, rituals, and taboos.

>Subversion
>Revealing the scapegoat
That should make his software crash.

>>23006835
You seem to suffer from some kind of mental illness.

>>23006853
Cope harder pajeet

>>23005672
>The Idiot
>Brothers Karamazov
Not gonna cut it. You need something explicit and impacting.

>>23005693
>His atheism and your christcuckery are both symptoms of your genetic autism.

Atheist here. The gospels have a great value, but you're both too diluted and too polarized to figure that thout. Kampai ! *drinks dilution*

>>23005700
keep your fairytale garbage to yourself

>t. retard

Even Nietzsche didn't dare stooping to that level.

>>23005847
>C.S. Lewis; Mere Christianity
>C.S. Lewis; The Weight of Glory
>Andrew Murray; Ultimate Surrender
>John White; Eros Defiled & Eros Redeemed
>The Bible, of course. If he doesn't have one, give him one. My father gave me two when I graduated high school. They sat unread until four years later when the Lord came into my life. Fourteen years on, I've nearly worn one to shreds and read the other almost every day.

Nah you need to attack the problem by another angle. Don't go frontal and defend Christianity on the basis of religion. Do that on the basis of anthropology. Seek to checkmate.

>My grandparents were very religious, my dad turned out a fervent atheist as well, with also a great deal of contempt for the church (not to say absolute hate and disgust).

Had one freak out about a nun that was passing us by, meanwhile he said nothing about the half-dozen veiled muslim women that were around us. Traitors. Brain probing of opinion using MRI and LLMs followed with guillotine.

>>23006402
>Not today, Wittgenstein.
kek

TL;DR: RENE GIRARD

>>23005660
>harbors great contempt for the church
sounds like trauma of some sort, most atheists who lash out either have trauma or hate society/humanity and use church or some other times politics as scapegoats

the first anons rec of The Idiot is great for this, if he is intellectually honest, the book might plant the seed to resolve his issues

>>23006922
>You need something explicit and impacting.
buy him a bible and tell him "stop being a fucking snowflake pussy and man up"

>>23006959
Crying scapegoat is such a funny herald of judaism that I shouldn‘t be surprised christians learned it from their masters.

>>23007005
Agreed. And yet, etymologically
>Sheitan => accuser
>Diabolos => accuser
>Category => to accuse

>>23007028
Damn, never pieced that together. Satan was just calling them out all along.

>>23006807
Nice strawman you constructed.

>>23006796
Bro, I did. But you did read OP’s description of his father. He already holds the Church in great contempt. As Saint Peter said, the Cross is madness to the wisdom of the world.

>>23005660
OP, if Christ wanted to us to be won over by books, He would have written one. Christianity is about the deed, not about arguments. Honestly, the only type of Christian book I would get your dad is a historical memoir, something like Nicolae Steindhart’s Journal of Happiness, or a book by a Christian martyr of the Soviet regime. Or you, can go with something short and sweet like a collection of writings by a famous monk. Still, even then I thing is a long shot. I do not doubt the sincerity of your faith, or your love for your father. I think it’s really sweet that you care for your father’s soul. But, I like many other anons, I think you should pray for him and also pray for your patience. Like Saint Serafim of Sarov said, acquire the spirit of peace and a thousand will be saved by your said.

>>23007044
The first 2 are from Girard. The 3rd one is from Heidegger.

Being & Time, §45,

> In any discussion (*logos*) of entities, we have previously addressed ourselves to Being ; this addressing is *kategoreistai*). This signifies, in the first instance, making a public accusation, taking someone to task for something in the presence of every one. When used ontologically, this term means taking an entity to task, as it were, for whatever it is as an entity-that is to say, letting everyone see it in its Being.

>>23005660
>and the church
What is the church to you? Some building, an organization headed by man, or the body of believers headed by Jesus Christ?

>>23005690
Do you believe your ancestors were monkeys and fish?

>>23005805
Atheists unironically say stuff like this while constantly proselytizing their blind faith and even getting tax funding to indoctrinate kids with their blind faith beliefs in public schools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uw777dfC5U

>>23006040
>>23006266
>>23006374
>>23006429
>>23006606
>>23006785
>>23006835
>>23006853
>>23006862
>>>/b/

>>23005749
IQ is a pseudoscience

>>23006835
>Dante's inferno
>pop culture references
>self insert
Mental Floss watcher's understanding of literature.

>>23007415
It's non-comprehensive and imprecise, but it has validity.

>>23005709
Year of Our Lord, 2024

>>23006048
>nooo loving another country and entertaining its propaganda cliams is actually based because the tacobell cashier in my hometown puts his peepee in the poopoo! pootin and kiril are based and totally wont genocide us if they get the chance! lets print out sacred icons of DJ vlad at the library and kiss 'em!

>>23006922
>Nah you need to attack the problem by another angle. Don't go frontal and defend Christianity on the basis of religion. Do that on the basis of anthropology. Seek to checkmate.

To me, anon, it isn't a battle with the person. My enemies are not flesh and blood. What I seek is to make sure whomever I am dealing with really understands who Christ is, what we Christians believe, and how we think about our calling and place in the world. If I can honestly say they understand, yet still hate us--which I am reluctant to think ever truly happens because no one can hate God, who loves everyone more than anyone else has loved--yet supposing it does happen, then I can be fully at peace as an object of hatred, for love binds me to Christ. I recommend those books because they are not only the works of genuine men of faith, but of salient minds in facile command of language. As for Scripture itself, I believe what the Word asserts, that it is the Word of God, that it is living, active, and sharper than any two-edged sword--piercing unto the divisions of soul and spirit, joints and marrow, able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart, and as such, believe that God will bring His Word to life at the proper time for a man. What we must do, is insure he has access and support. The Gospel is the power of God to bring salvation to Man, and, as when He spoke this Universe into being, He has done this marvel with Words.

Just get him Moby Dick.

respect his beleifs maybe

>>23005660
If he's not an avid reader, this is an ill considered gift idea. People of to come to it themselves. You have to short circuit such things, negate the negation. Picrel as an intermediary position could work (better to get them in the Marcionite/Gnostic door than nothing). A hardcore preterist account of Revelations and prophecy, like Bruce Gore's lectures on such are historical enough to tempt a empiciricist bent atheist with a bad conscience. Or pedal to the medal into the bottomless abyss (Severino, The Essence of Nihilism). But that's all dependent on him being a reader. Books are a huge ask on people's time, they have to justify it. You being steadfast in your faith and giving a good account of your position if it comes up in conversation ought to be enough for him to eventually have misgivings.

>>23008470
Read some Girard then if you haven't already.

“Individualism is a formidable lie.”

“More than ever, I am convinced that history has meaning – and that its meaning is terrifying.”

“Victimism uses the ideology of concern for victims to gain political or economic or spiritual power.”

“The profound self is a universal self.”

“Passive, submissive imitation does exist, but hatred of conformity and extreme individualism are no less imitative. Today they constitute a negative conformism that is more formidable than the positive version. More and more, it seems to me, modern individualism assumes the form of a desperate denial of the fact that, through mimetic desire, each of us seeks to impose his will upon his fellow man, whom he professes to love but more often despises.”

“To escape responsibility for violence we imagine it is enough to pledge never to be the first to do violence. But no one ever sees himself as casting the first stone. Even the most violent persons believe that they are always reacting to a violence committed in the first instance by someone else.”

“I believe that in intense conflict, far from becoming sharper, differences melt away.”

“The peoples of the world do not invent their gods. They deify their victims.”

“Violence is the divine force that everyone tries to use for his own purposes and that ends by using everyone for its own—the Dionysus of The Bacchae”

“We must renounce the gambit of “good” and “bad” – even in its inverted form. We must acknowledge that misapprehensions abound, that violence is to be found everywhere, and that our partial understanding of violence by no means assures us victory over it.”

“The profound self is a universal self.”

>>23008622
Based on those quotes, I don't need to. His philosophy comes from a distorted place. His view of what is human has been shaped by his own sin, and sin has given him a hateful view of man. God is a person, and He is loving and kind. A man can cling to his thoughts, but his thoughts will not negate the existence of God or spare him the need to set his life right. He is better off humbling himself before God. All uncertainties vanish in His presence.

>>23008622
I will add this, however. I like the quote from the Bacchae. It is quite good. Men should consider what manner of divinity is behind that force, and take note of to whom it is accredited.

>>23005660
Don't waste your time.

>>23008652
>Girard: doesn't negate the existence of God
>A man can cling to his thoughts, but his thoughts will not negate the existence of God or spare him the need to set his life right. He is better off humbling himself before God.

>Lectures other people about their sins.

>Based on those quotes, I don't need to. His philosophy comes from a distorted place. His view of what is human has been shaped by his own sin, and sin has given him a hateful view of man.

Sloth and Wrath and Pride

OP, maybe your dad's right ?

>>23008706
None of them actually, but trying to "get checkmate" by using those sorts of accusations against a Christian is a standard move. Perhaps more tactics training? What's your debate elo?

>>23005660
>my fathers birthday is coming up
>I want to get him something that’s all about me and my views
Faggot

>>23005660
Try reading a book that challenges your own ignorant position rather than trying to force someone else to change their well reasoned position. The church deserves contempt, and God doesn't exist. Grow up.

>>23005660
Imagine falling for a cult 2000 years after the con was exposed and the criminal leader was executed. Embarrassing, anon.

>>23005660
Stay in your lane man. Leave it alone. Your comfy devotion to an idea doesn't make it all real. And you will accomplish nothing satisfactory from this, only resentment. Don't let ideology divide your family.

>>23008738
>None of them actually,
Yes absolutely every single one of them

>Sloth and Wrath and Pride

This is exactly why OP's dad is arc-bent against christianity, because of people like you (same problem as with Islam).

I'm merely talking about winning a game – You're asserting other people's sin while seasoning it with a sauce of "love" that is extremely condescending.
Anthropology is the way with OP's dad, not "spirituality" (your own above everyone's else, where submission is justified by your own submission to "god" (just like in Islam, again).

>>23008800
What crime did Jesus commit?

>>23008828
>>23008800
>>23008792
>>23008740
>>23008667
>>23008537
>>23007044
>>23007028
>>23006862
>>23006794
>>23006606
>>23006429
>>23006374
>>23006369
>>23006302
>>23006040
>>23006240
>>23005828
>>23005776
>>23005709
>>23005704
>>23005693
>>23005690
Why are atheistcucks always all resentful, spiteful, bileful scum? Why are they so intent on proving what godlessness leads to?

>>23008978
Probably as a result of interacting with christcucks

>>23009054
>atheistcucks can't keep their emotions in check
Checks out with how effeminate you guys are, all that body fat is neutralizing your testosterone with estrogen

>>23009054
holy shit dude a wojak and the phrase "cuck"? Damn, I never thought about this. I'm really rethinking my lifelong religious convictions over this one. Thank you.

>>23008978
idk you seem pretty spiteful yourself dude

>>23009066
>>23009067
Keep dreaming of magic sky daddies having absolute power over you

>>23009080
Woah, God is a "sky daddy"....

Do you have any literature you could recommend on this topic?

>>23009080
What do you come to this board (and probably /his/ as well) for? Do you ever discuss any literature at all? Sounds a lot like ressentiment to me.

>>23009085
Sorry, I meant a "Heavenly Father" who "has dominion over you". Oh shit, that sounds even kinkier.
>>23009096
I wish we could discuss actual literature on this board instead of it being constantly shitted up with delusional religious nuts who can't realize they've bought into an abhorrent cult of human sacrifice and cannibalism.

>>23009116
Gay sex novels aren't "real literature"

>>23008461
Who are you quoting?

>>23009135
Neither are compilations of ancient Hebrew lies

>>23009200
>he admitted he reads homoerotica
I can see why you pussied out of >>23008734

>>23008978
Do something for your father instead of trying to selfishly make it about yourself and your views. Christianity was supposed to be about the individual journey too.

>>23009207
>He has zero reading comprehension
Figures since you're a christcuck

>>23009213
I'm not OP retard. And Christianity is about communal living -- imitation of the perfect unity of will and activity in the Godhead.

>>23009226
Christianity is about giving up worldly possessions in anticipation of imminent end times

>>23009236
Looks like someone needs to brush up their New Testament again.

>>23009225
You like your homoerotica Chuck Tingle style, or are you more fond of yaoi aimed at women?

Op here, I did not know this thread will blow up this way, To clear some things, my father will not be offended by a book about religion by any means. He is interested in Jesus as a historic figure and constantly reads about him. I just wanted to gift him something that would also made him realize the importance of the spiritual and philosophical side of religion Im not trying to convert him.

Thanks for those who recomended some books I'll check them.

>>23009226
>The kingdom of god is within you

>>23009272
St Paul's teachings are perfectly in line with the Gospels and the epistles of the Apostles as they both present a communitarian vision of the Church as an icon of the inner life of the Trinity. From God and through Him and for Him are all things (Romans 11:36) and if we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord (Romans 14:8); the first and greatest commandment of all is to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind, and second is like it, to love your neighbour as yourself (Matthew 22:37-39), for to love your neighbour is the same as to love the Lord your God, as whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar, for whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen (1 John 4:20); as the story of the anointment at Bethany teaches us (Matthew 26:6-13), when there is an irreconcilable between serving the Lord and serving our brethren, it is better to please the Lord.

>>23009272
>>23009305
The Son came to give us the glory that God gave Him, that we may be one as the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are one (John 17:22; 1 John 5:7), so that with one mind and one voice we may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 15:6), for in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others (Romans 12:5), with different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them (1 Corinthians 12:6), for God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be (1 Corinthians 12:18), so that each of us should use whatever gift we have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms (1 Peter 4:10), for to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it (Ephesians 4:7); Christ is the head of the body, the church (Ephesians 5:23; Colossians 1:18), just as the head of Christ is God (1 Corinthians 11:3). The unity of will and activity in mankind the Church is an image of the unity of will and activity in the Godhead, wherein the Son can do nothing by Himself, doing only what He sees His Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does, for the Father loves the Son and shows Him all He does (John 5:19-20), the deeds in which the Son of Man is glorified and God is glorified in him, and as God is glorified in Him, God will glorify the Son in Himself, and will glorify Him at once (John 13:31-32), glorifying Him in His presence with the glory He had with Him before the world began (John 17:5).

>>23009272
>>23009305
>>23009308
By living and participating in a community, we come to comprehend the glory of the inner life of the Godhead, for only God is good (Matthew 19:17), but everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving (1 Timothy 4:4), as those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters, and those he predestined, he also called, and those he called, he also justified, and those he justified, he also glorified (Romans 8:29-30); for they are co-workers in God’s service (1 Corinthians 3:9; Hebrews 3:14), having been set free from sin and become slaves to righteousness (Romans 6:18). Although Christ demands that we be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48), He clearly states that although it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven and that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God (Matthew 19:23-24), with God all things are possible (Matthew 19:26), many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first (Matthew 19:30); the point of the parable of the vineyard (Matthew 20:1-16) is that men of different merits shall all make it into heaven, just as Christ declares the wealthy Zacchaeus saved (Luke 19:9), despite his not selling all his possessions and giving them to the poor (Matthew 19:21), as the point of the parable of the talents or ten minas (Matthew 25:14-30; Luke 19:11-27) is that men are judged according to the gifts they have been apportioned. The lazy servant is not chastised for earning less than his more competent co-workers, but for having failed to try whatsoever, for each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has called them (1 Corinthians 7:17); Matthew situates the parable of the vineyard immediately after the tale of wealthy youth to exhort those more virtuous to not feel envious of those with lesser gifts awarded with eternal life, whereas Luke situates the story of Zacchaeus and the parable of the ten minas to exhort those with lesser gifts to nonetheless to do their best despite their inability to attain perfection. It is thus why it is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman, but since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband (1 Corinthians 7:1-2), and why there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 19:12), even if it is not mandatory.

>>23009272
>>23009305
>>23009308
>>23009310
For Paul, of faith, hope and love, the greatest is love (1 Corinthians 13:13), for man is justified in Christ by faith working through love (Galatians 5:6), if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing (1 Corinthians 13:2), as whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love (1 John 4:8). Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me (Romans 7:21), a slave to the law of sin (Romans 7:25); thus, we are not justified or condemned by the works that witness our fallen nature, but by the works that witness our faith.

>>23005690
"grow up" heh just find meaning from the epic science, also depressed anti natalist here, doling out advise for a life i wish i didn't have to live :^) all grown up

>>23005660
You have to agree with him that the church is bad and the term Christianity has been used to justify horrible things. Heck even agree with him that religion is bad, religion killed Jesus. Blind faith in anything is bad

>>23005805
Same with Atheism, I'm fine with your personal beliefs until you burst into a science classroom and tell people the universe came from nothing, I'm fine with atheism until you start marching my fellow countryman to the gulags, I'm fine with atheism as long as you tell people there is no such thing as love, that murder is just as good as it is bad as there are no morals.
I'm fine with atheists once they are intellectually honest. They seem to want to not tell people that there is no objective moral law where they are going and hide that under the table while lying about science saying the universe came from nothing to trick laymen into following them. It's a strange religion with extremely dogmatic views, the same way Christians will tell you they aren't part of a religion today because of these militant atheists, atheists in the coming years will tell you they aren't atheists just to avoid association with them

>>23009265
Have you read any Church Fathers, anon?

>>23005660
it's your fathers birthday, not yours you self-absorbed dumbass
now actually adhere to Jesus' teachings and get your dad something HE wants, not something YOU want.

>>23009405
This. You can give him a book, but make sure it is a secondary gift and his main gift is something you know he will enjoy.

>>23009262
You seem to spend a lot of time thinking about gay sex. Projecting much, anon?

>>23009320
Imagine thinking you can't live a meaningful and wholesome life unless you believe in a magic father figure in the clouds who sent a son down to be murdered and cannibalized in order for him to forgive himself for the creation he made.

>>23009359
Anon, is murder wrong because it is harmful and unjust, or only because sky daddy engraved it on a stone tablet? Moral values are to be reasoned out, not dictated by authority. Also, you seem to misunderstand the very basics of what you are talking about. I'm sure even the individuals who advance the "universe from nothing" would never claim that it categorically did come from nothing, but rather that it is possible and present evidence for it. You are projecting dogma because it is the only thing you can comprehend.

>>23008978
There's no peace for the wicked.

If this was any other topic with this many trolls spamming and shitting up the thread or raiding from their soitranny discords, mods would've started banning them.

It's funny that the best argument against atheism is always atheists themselves, they're always insufferable twats (when they're not being total psychopaths after being given some power). If what they believed was true, they'd have some peace within themselves, but they have none and most of them are on cocktails of prescriptions meds.

>>23009513
Imagine thinking your ancestors are monkeys and fish.

>>23009519
Atheists have no moral values, they just have opinions. Stop pretending like atheists have ever answered the problem of morality, atheists never answer anything, they just get tax funding and indoctrinate kids with their blind faith beliefs. Most of them are too stupid even to know which of their beliefs are taken on faith.

>>23009519
>Anon, is murder wrong because it is harmful and unjust
Harmful? But murder can do "good" by bringing me safety, giving me land, giving me food, giving me possessions. Murder can be just as it can get me revenge and bring justice. No science or logic can tell you that it's objectively bad and could easily point to the contrary...yet it is. Murder isn't good or bad in your materialist worldview it just is. Murder doesn't lead to any regression or progression, it's just change which is all just as good as it is bad because it is merely change nothing more.
>Moral values are to be reasoned out, not dictated by authority
Yes because we are made in the image of God we know these things to be true, good things are true it's that simple. If you kill God, no longer does authority have to bow down to Jesus but you give them power over you, you go back to Egypt and let them decide what is good for you. You are in the real world where God will throw poisonous snakes at you, you aren't safe under tyranny if you stop looking to authority figures and the ruling class you are free to walk with God. You can stop wondering the desert and go back if you want to, you can go back to worshiping money and the people who have the most of it and popularity and the people who have the most of it.
No where else outside of the Judeo-Christian worldview will you find the fact that all men and women are created equal
>I'm sure even the individuals who advance the "universe from nothing" would never claim that it categorically did come from nothing,
Then don't say it if you don't even believe it? Just because your religion tells you to puppet this line doesn't mean you have to as there is no rational evidence for it

Now none of these things are reasons to believe in God, but you can't keep them when you leave

>>23005660
Your father is correct.

60, 000 words in this thread posted by people that have spent untold hours reading theology and Bible and wasting their lives.
It's such a waste of time and effort.

I would disown my son if he became obsessed with religion to prevent him from becoming the people in this thread.

>>23005660
I briefly skimmed the thread, and it seems nobody has given you any real recommendations. Allow me to remedy that.

>>23008885
No, literally none. You assume I don't read because I'm lazy. Foolish. I told you why I won't and it has nothing to do with laziness. You assume wrath. You're the one who's angry, clearly. That's why you're hurling accusations. Pride? You're the one who's proud. It's your pride that has been hurt by my rejection of you philosopher, and his "wisdom." That's why you feel the need to attack. You need to think more critically and read more carefully. You're committing common errors here and making a lot of projections and assumptions. You're even over-extending my comments to suit your argument (which doesn't work). The truth is, these kinds of conversations with non-believers are a dime a dozen, complete with the massively inaccurate Islam parallels, so I'm totally unbothered, but neither will I let you pretend to be an honest man, when you have just as little sincerity as average. As for asserting people's sin. Of course I can. Everyman's life is full of sin, and the only exception is Christ. You can lie to yourself and take offense, but that's just your own hang-ups. Telling that you take such offence, when no one's sin was even particularly named, and the only sin mentioned at all was that of a man you do not even know. As for me, I'm done talking. I only spoke to you at all because, like all your type, you began by faking sincerity and a good nature. How quickly the mask falls off.

>>23009825
That would be better for your son. Better to be disowned by a man like you, than to persist under the influence of his bigoted ignorance.

>>23005709
Best sentence I've read in a long time. Really applicable to every other post on this Ecuadorian felching forum.

>>23006835
All Luther did was open the gates for theology that doubled down on Dante's fanfic

>>23006959
>sounds like trauma of some sort, most atheists who lash out either have trauma or hate society/humanity and use church or some other times politics as scapegoats
Well one issue I have realized is in the US most trauma of that sorts, when it is not outright abuse, comes from people growing up in Protestant Cults or in the case of Catholics getting abused by a Priest
It becomes very obvious when talking to them, their words are like an inverse of their abusers, but they internalize what the abuser said just the same

>>23009825
Self refuting. If you would disown your son because of something like this, you admit your moral inferiority and egotistical nature, which are the very things your son would be fighting against. They always out themselves, always...

>>23005847
It's interesting that faith is something that only God can bestow, and you cannot believe in him if you lack it. Seems rather odd.

Imagine having a son who believes in retarded fairy tales. At this point he might as well be gay or even a tranny.

>>23009839
That is fitting, since atheists are mentally ill.

>>23005693
Both of them are products of jewery. Modern rabid atheism is just communism lite, and communism is just christcuckery for atheists. So they are closer to each other ideologically than they realize.

>>23010221
It isn't odd at all. You're reaching very deeply into your prolapsed anus.

>>23005660
If his bday's the 7th (Charles Dickens' bday) get him Hard Times. Though after Curiosity Shop Hard Times is my least favorite Dickens, it is his shortest novel, and comes down hard on a life that purports to be based solely on facts, or 'evidence'.

>>23010266
*pulls out a poo*

>>23010373
Behold! Atheist thought!

>>23006959
>hate society/humanity
the Romans considered the early Christians to be misanthropes for refusing to participate in the civic religion and denying all gods except theirs

>>23005660
>I have a father who is a fervent atheist and harbors great contempt for the church.
Good on him. You could learn a lot from him.
>His birthday is around the corner, and I would like to gift him a book that could help him comprehend my closeness to God
Dumb idea. The little brother does not re-convince his elder brother of the existence of Santa Claus. Stop being stupid and you’ll impress him someday.

>>23009825
>I would disown my son if he didn't follow my religion
I can't wait to read in the future about how Atheism became it's own dogmatic religion. It's very fascinating stuff, if only people thousands of years about wrote a book about this...

>>23005660
It is genuinely jaw dropping that you think this would qualify as a gift. You MUST be trolling

A lot of obvious samefagging ITT

>>23005709
kek the zoomer ethos contained in a single post

>>23005828
Where does it say that in the New Testament?

>>23005672
TBK cemented my atheism. Yeah I know I missed the point, I just relate to Ivan too much.

>>23006785
>Everyone is dogmatic sheeple except me! I’m the only one that has seen the real truth! What’s that? No, not that truth, but the one only I’ve seen!
Kill yourself

>>23007410
This poster is likely an atheist attempting to make theists look dumb

>>23005828
The Old Testament doesn't even say it was a sin, it was never moral law and you would be hard pressed to find clothing like that today anyway unless you went looking for it

>>23005828
Wrong. It was part of the covenant for living in Israel. It wasn’t soteriological in the sense that you present it

>>23005660

The problem isn't that he doesn't understand it.

Atheists and theists are both idiots.

Ignorance is infectious. Stories enslave nations. You don’t need mind control powers to mind control people. You just need ignorance. Art is pure power. All religion is art. Stories.

—“Human thought is so primitive, it's looked upon as an infectious disease in some of the better galaxies.“

I just watched a Coca Cola documentary about a fat Mexican shaman lady who prayed to mother Mary (after sacrificing a chicken) to cure a guy of his diabetes—which consisted of him drinking MORE Coca Cola, which he BOUGHT from HER vending machine, what the fuck.

Once you realize how stupid/susceptible people are, the world is open to you.

The thing religious people fail to acknowledge is that these are all just narratives to mold your life by.

They aren’t supposed to be real.

>>23011363
>They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.

Liam Neeson

>>23011381
But anon Jesus was real

>>23009825
>60, 000 words in this thread
lol what, this thread is not longer than Lord of the Flies you dunce.

>>23011388
Doesn’t matter if he was or wasn’t. There were many like him. A story is still a story. Skewed by the ages.

>>23011381
Alan Moore approves of this post.

>>23011393
Yes which is why Christians have returned to the Jesus of the source material, not the one from the church and not the one atheists made up

>>23008978

Having to share a world with large numbers of stupid people who believe in a false god has a way of wearing you down.

>>23011584
Thanks for proving his point
Once again I say: it is impossible to find an atheist that does not have an inflated ego

>>23010415
He‘s not the one who started talking about prolapsed assholes

>>23011393
The consensus even among secular academics is that the gospels were written in the first century (around years 70-80, with some estimates placing one around 40 AD). Also, written by first hand accounts that saw Jesus. Not some 'normal thing made fantastical by the ages'

>>23010969
You made a fool of yourself, it seems
You will eventually read it again some years from now. I can only hope your head is less clouded then

>>23011584
The bible has great lessons on how to deal with suffering, it will give you a much better outlook on life

>>23011611
>The consensus even among secular academics is that the gospels were written in the first century
No it isn't.

>Also, written by first hand accounts that saw Jesus.
This is completely absurd given that some of the Gospels are cobbled together from earlier texts.

>>23006645
Because any open-minded physics STEM dude that sticks around for long enough and refuses to lie to himself comes across the questions physics can't answer.

>>23005660
Grendel

>>23011822
>No it isn't.
yes it is.

>some of the Gospels are cobbled together from earlier texts.
yeah and those earlier texts and the cobbling together both happened in the first century, ie while the events described were within living memory, except perhaps for parts of john

>>23011792

both Job and the gospels taken together do nicely to put the lie to this ridiculous assertion.

>>23009524
Claiming you have an objective moral standard is literally just your opinion. Appealing to your imaginary friend does not give it any extra weight.

>>23009532
Morality is a tool to foster social cohesion which grants more than the sum of it's parts by leveraging synergy so that any individual will get more out of his labor inputs than he would on his own. Thus, laws, rights, principles are developed to allow everything to go smoothly. This is a matter of reason and careful judgement. It is only the child or the coward who capitulates his own responsibility in this regard and throws himself on the authority of a made up "God" to tell him what to think.

>>23011960
>objective moral standard
we had this thread yesterday, christlarpers were reduced to fedoraesque smugposting about how smart they were for trusting the sacred science

>>23011979
It's amazing how all of theology boils down to "a magic being did it". Embarrassing that people devote their whole lives to that.

>>23010245
>no u

>>23005660
You can't really switch over people like that as people usually hold to their beliefs. If that were the case, someone could give you a book on Tibetan Buddhism and you'd start meditating. What you should do is try to nudge them to Christian virtue. Dostoevsky is a pretty good example, but it could be anything done by a Christian which isn't clerical. Another thing would be Kierkegaard, but you also have Tarkovsky movies, as you've put as picrel. But whatever you do, don't play him any Jay Dyer or something like that, otherwise you'll (deservedly) get a can of whoopass.

>>23012063
It took 178 replies but here it is, the /thread

>>23012063
If you are alluding to Dostoevsky’s worst novels, then, indeed, I dislike intensely The Brothers Karamazov and the ghastly Crime and Punishment rigamarole. No, I do not object to soul-searching and self-revelation, but in those books the soul, and the sins, and the sentimentality, and the journalese, hardly warrant the tedious and muddled search. Dostoyevsky’s lack of taste, his monotonous dealings with persons suffering with pre-Freudian complexes, the way he has of wallowing in the tragic misadventures of human dignity – all this is difficult to admire. I do not like this trick his characters have of ”sinning their way to Jesus” or, as a Russian author, Ivan Bunin, put it more bluntly, ”spilling Jesus all over the place." Crime and Punishment’s plot did not seem as incredibly banal in 1866 when the book was written as it does now when noble prostitutes are apt to be received a little cynically by experienced readers. Dostoyevsky never really got over the influence which the European mystery novel and the sentimental novel made upon him. The sentimental influence implied that kind of conflict he liked—placing virtuous people in pathetic situations and then extracting from these situations the last ounce of pathos. Non-Russian readers do not realize two things: that not all Russians love Dostoevsky as much as Americans do, and that most of those Russians who do, venerate him as a mystic and not as an artist. He was a prophet, a claptrap journalist and a slapdash comedian. I admit that some of his scenes, some of his tremendous farcical rows are extraordinarily amusing. But his sensitive murderers and soulful prostitutes are not to be endured for one moment—by this reader anyway. Dostoyevsky seems to have been chosen by the destiny of Russian letters to become Russia’s greatest playwright, but he took the wrong turning and wrote novels.

>>23011979
You couldn't respond to single argument posted in it, faggot pajeet.

>>23011960
There are two aspects to morality: morality as goodness, and morality as law. Pursuing the Good is intrinsically valuable, but without disincentives for eschewing it, creatures who by their composite nature subject to change and thereby contingently as opposed to essentially good, prone to alteration and evil, will be prone to straying away from it; thus, God imposes morality as a law, to ensure the goodness of His creatures.

Now, God is by His simple nature an energeia -- activity. In God, there is scarcely any real distinction between His attributes and His operation, we merely logically distinguish between the two, because we cannot conceptualize of God in His ineffable and incomprehensible essence due to our delineating Him on the basis of our creaturely observations; all our descriptions of God are in some way or another on the basis of negation, whether as privation or eminence: we begin to be, so God must be unbegotten; we are composite, so God is ineffably simple; we exist in time, so God is timeless; we undergo alteration, so God is subject to change due to His transcending time and space; we are finite, so He must be infinite. We never truly define God as His essence is unattainable, we merely delineate the realities around Him in relation to ourselves.

>>23011960
>>23012145
We try to circumscribe Him, but He is uncircumscribable. We differentiate in Him between essence and subsistence -- ousia and hypostasis -- on account of the fact in creatures the hypostasis is ontologically prior but logically posterior to the many ousiai that constitute it, for all existences are but bundles of coexistent attributes, various universal properties predicated of a hypostasis but which cannot subsist outside of it; thus, we say that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all equally "God" because divinity is a property -- a numerically singular universal -- that subsists in all three hypostaseis, just as the numerically single universal property of humanity subsists in all particular human persons, no different between any of us. Yet when we say so, we conceptualize of the essence as a property as opposed to activity, and of it as ontologically posterior to hypostaseis: but God's essence is identical with Himself, and His Son and His Spirit are not due to the fact that His generating the persons that causally derivative and therefore inferior to Him yet nonetheless ontologically equal on account of the fact that they are mere extensions of His existence -- for to be a mere extension of God is no mere thing, as it requires ontological equality with Him on account of incorporeal, simple, transcendental nature -- is *part* or His essential activity. God is Thought Thinking of Itself, and in the process of His most sublime, supreme contemplation of His grandeur, He generates the Son and through Him the Spirit, for He comes to know Himself most perfectly in the reflection of others: His generating the other two divine persons is indicative of His omnipotence (for He produces minds who equally possess His attributes), His omniscience (for through Them, He most perfectly actualizes Himself by knowing Himself in Their reflection) and His omnibenelovence (for it is the ultimate, most sublime act of Love), but it is undefinable in its essence

>>23009859
>>23010212
Wah wah, sanctimonious christ trannies can dilate.

>>23011960
>>23012145
>>23012150
Thus, God is Pure Act. And being simple, He has a single activity: His eternally perpending Himself. Thus, Creation cannot be a second activity, rather it is an operation that is an extension of His essential rumination of His own Self. Ergo, the ultimate purpose of Creation is to serve as a monument to God's glory, and all creatures within it are destined for eternally imitating God, seeking to contemplate Him as He does Himself, but failing to do so; and in doing so, vindicating His ineffable glory, for even finite, imperfect creatures such as ourselves are left stupified by His magnificence despite our inability to fully comprehend it.

The skopos and telos of Existence is epektasis: our eternally circling around God, growing in our knowledge of Him, but never exhausting all that can be said and known of Him. For He is like an infinite well of water from which we seep, yet also infinitely greater than infinity, for His being infinity is merely a notion we have of Him in relation to ourselves -- His infinity is comprehensibly incomprehensible, but His essence is so incomprehensible we cannot even comprehend it, for we can have no direct notion of it.

Everything in Creation exists to facilitate our contemplation of God; God man made in the image of God, and his existing in a community is a most sublime imitation of the loving, perichoretic unity of the Godhead. The community of men is a symbol, an icon, of the Most Holy Trinity. We seek to attain its perfection, but never can, for the Son and the Spirit are extensions of God, His Being and His Doing, eternally subordinate to His will; God is one since in the Godhead there is one source—the Father; one will—that of the Father; one nature and power—that which the Father communicates to His Son and Spirit; one activity—that which the Father completes through His Son and Spirit.

>>23011960
>>23012145
>>23012150
>>23012154
But in man, there are many wills and many activities, which only contingently and not essentially as in God align. We can never be like the Trinity God engenders, but through living imbricated in a community, we can most truly and fully come to know ourselves, for man can only comprehend himself in relation to others; and by comprehending himself as the extension of a community, he can begin to comprehend the community of love, will, nature and activity that God engenders through His Son and Spirit.

By learning humility through existence in a community, where man is compelled to rely on others as an extrinsic good -- extrinsic, inasmuch as he is compelled to rely on others to accord the material conditions prerequisite for the leisure necessary to engage in contemplation of the divine -- and intrinsic good -- intrinsic, inasmuch as his reflection on himself and others allows him to comprehend divine realities -- man learns humility before God; and through humility, reverence for and unity with Him.

That is the source of all morality.>>23011960

>>23011960
>>23012145
>>23012150
>>23012154
>>23012159
As always, atheists are too idiotic to realize that in a world wherein God does not punish people for behaving immorally and merely allows the good to attain the intrinsic reward for pursuing that which is noble and transcendental, only those who intrinsically pursue the good do good; in a world in which he does, both those who do what is right for its own sake and those who would do good insofar as they wish to avoid being punished will choose to pursue higher ends. To this one might subsequently add that laws and their concomitant punishment have a pedagogical purpose: they induce the bestial and profligate to contemplate the good through habit. Men are insufflated through discipline and punishment with knowledge of that which is good and transcendental; many who are driven solely by fear to do good are instilled through conditioning with a desire to intrinsically pursue the good.

Furthermore, midwitted atheists misapprehend that morality depends on God in two senses: an ontological sense, and a legalistic sense. God, being the most highest and transcendental reality, is the telos and skopos of all that lower realities depend on and find most desirous. All the carnal pleasures of this plane are false desires, mediated desires for the ultimate and most sublime reality that is God; indulgence in the hedonistic passions is fictive, finite, fissiparous, fleeting form of pleasure, tiresome and inpermanent, whereas unity with God in His energies is the most highest form of self-actualization, the most supremely sublime and fulfilling bliss. Without any sort higher supranatural realities, there is little reason to eschew dissipation in the atavistic instincts of this world -- little reason not to succumb to the desire to satiate each vile passion at the expense of others. Since doing good to others is not itself a path to fulfillment, since there is no higher telos beyond the material, morality is a mirage.

>>23011960
>>23012145
>>23012150
>>23012154
>>23012159
>>23012167
It is only subsequently that morality depends on God as a Lawgiver, who punishes those who deviate from their telos in His transcendental being; His being the metaphysical principle that engenders the Good as the Supreme Good and His being the Will imposes norms on our wills is mutually complementary, since His Will is identical to His Intellect; His Laws are a reflection of His most perfect Wisdom and could not be any other way, and His being the ontological basis for the Good induces Him to impose His moral laws upon to guide us to Himself.

>>23011987
Let's see your response to this, then:
>>23012145
>>23012150
>>23012154
>>23012159
>>23012167
>>23012176

>>23012186

He already did in the very post that you replied to. You're being wilfully stupid.

>>23012186
NTA but it‘s hilariously retarded that you expect anyone to engage with a series of walltext copyposts (minutes apart for all that shit) because you couldn‘t just address them directly.

>>23012134
there's that christian love of neighbor, right on schedule followed by essay length schizobabble
>>23012145
...
>>23012176

>>23012210
He made a retarded faggot point whose "substance"—really straining the meaning of the word here—boils down to a brusque, anti-intellectual, preemptive dismissal of any argumentation one could put forward in favour of moral realism. It's moronic, and you're an even bigger moron for being impressed by it.

>>23012219
There must first be actual argumentation before a proper rebuttal can be offered.

>>23011792
So does any book on stoic philosophy, you don’t need jewish fairytales attached to those lessons to get them unless you are a child or literally retarded.

>>23012247
>dismissal of any argumentation one could put forward in favour of moral realism
can you actually do this without six rambling posts about the essences and energies of yahweh or not?

>>23006633
I second this.

Also, I would recommend you giving him Brother Karamazov, given that the whole book, as it seems to me, is about redemption, that is, the core teaching of christianity.

Socratic Memorabilia, by Hamann, who was a degenerate and then born again christian in the tradition of Pietism, seems a good one as well. I got this one from a biography of Kant. I haven't read the book myself yet, but it is next on my list in my efforts to counter the malaise of atheism.

>>23012263
No, because ethics is just applied metaphysics. And I don't see how they are rambling.

>>23012301
entire paragraphs are just odes to the glory of your volcano demon or expositions of trinitarian theology and have no connection to the claim of an objective morality

>>23012312
The inner life of the Trinitarian is the model for human communal relations, and thereby all subsequent ethics. This is made readily apparent in the essay.

>>23012449
>This is made readily apparent in the essay.
just because something appears does not make it true

>>23012552
You're such a petty, spiteful fuck, you ressentiment-riddled bitch. I was talking about how essay makes it readily apparent why discussing the Trinity is essential to comprehending the metaphysical foundation for the metaethics being presented. Illiterate maggot.

>>23012563
this guy's already said it better
>>23012151

>>23012563
kek

>>23012628
That's a lot of projection from a sanctimonious Nietzscuck tranny. "NOOOOO YOU CAN'T OVERCOME YOUR CARNAL PASSIONS AND SUBORDINATE THEM TO REASON!!! YOU CAN'T RISE ABOVE THE MATERIAL WORLD AND TRANSCEND ANIMALISTIC HEDONISTIC DISSIPATION!!! YOU CAN'T SACRIFICE YOURSELF IN THE SERVICE OF HIGHER TRANSCENDENTAL CAUSES!!! I VALUE LIFE FOR THE SAKE LIFE, THE VALUE OF YEAST!!! STOP, YOU'RE MAKING ME FEEL INFERIOR NOOOOOOO"

>>23012563

Other guy seems to have struck a nerve. good. The same goes for the church fathers: just because "someone already thought of something" c. 1800 years ago does not mean that they arrived at a correct conclusion.

>>23012661
what a nice and not at all histrionic, moral christian who we should all strive to emulate as the ideal representation of communion in the triune godhead of another tribe's volcano demon, that volcano demon's wife's son, and the spirit of that volcano demon which may or may not have come through his wife's son in addition to himself

>>23012673
That is true. Nonetheless, they were absolutely correct.

>>23012673
>Other guy seems to have struck a nerve. good.

>>23012695

if hating christianity makes me a jew, than call me Ira Shmoikel Finkelstein. You worship a false christ and a false god, and for no good reason.

>>23012695
so in conclusion, OP should give his father a Latin copy of The City of God Against the Gentiles to impress him with how smart he is for being sneedevacantist?

>>23012705
Okay, Ira Shmoikel Finkelstein. I am certain your argumentation is very nuanced and brilliant.

>>23012673
>Other guy seems to have struck a nerve. good.
>>23012690
>>23012836
As for this, my annoyance is with this faggot's inability to engage in intellectually honest and sincere discussion, preferring instead his smarmy epic sassy black woman clapbacks and grasping at straws in desperate and transparent attempts to obviate meaningfully addressing the argumentation provided. All it does is it speaks to the intellectual feebleness of his position.

>>23012849
>inability to engage in intellectually honest and sincere discussion
If you can't explain your opinion succintly, you are being deceitful. This is not a monastery, I don't have all week to read through your manuscript to see how well you've interpreted scriptures I don't consider authoritative in the first place. Had you successfully shown that objective morality is real, maybe it would be valuable to see whether your precise christological framework accorded with it, but since you haven't, it is just schizobabble to suggest trinitarian theology is necessary to be moral or wherever you are going with this.

>>23012186
God does not impose anything. People only claim that he does. This literally annihilates your entire stance from the get go. You copypasta'ed walls of text only to be refuted in like a dozen words.

>>23012301
"Metaphysics" doesn't exist.

>>23012449
There are other civilizations based on things entirely different from Christianity, you do know this right? You sound like any other religious nut claiming all human actions are governed by Dharma, Karma, Sharia, or any of the other man-made-but-claimed-to-be-divine codes of conduct. You literally embody the comic I posted here >>23011960 but are too obtuse to realize it

>>23012921
Establishing what the final cause of existence is crucial to explicating the nature of human ethics, actually.

>>23012563
This post is you losing the argument, by the way

>>23012991
>final cause of existence
What do you mean by this?

>>23012986
There are a sufficient number of cross-cultural commonalities in terms of ethics that one can speak of a set of universally recognizable foundational axioms: namely, the Golden Rule. All (or at the very least most) other claims are derivative of and consequent to it.

>>23012997
Are you *that* unfamiliar with basic Aristotelian terminology kek

>>23012993
>This post is you losing the argument, by the way

>>23013007
>Won't answer the question
Ah, so you're just a moron more interested in derailing a conversation than having one? This is a sign of a weak mind, anon.

>>23013008
Cringe

>>23013002
"The Golden Rule" emerges out of Game Theory and is discoverable by reason without appeal to anything divine. Is this what you mean?

>>23012661
t. Logocentrist

>>23013019
Your fart sniffing pseudointellectualism is truly astounding; your entire argument basically boils down to saying God not real, but you prefer to indulge in circuitous sophistry to obviate addressing the primary contention. You are not impressive and your arrogance is incommensurate with your actual aptitude.

>>23013219

holy living fuck he's bringing out the heavy artillery boys, he's trying to hold frame

>"obviate" (twice, now!)
>circuitous
>the primary contention (it's around this stage in an internet retard fight that the various points get forgotten and the parties just slap at each other)

You worship a false christ and a false god.

>>23012661
This isn't a very Christian demeanor.

>>23013286
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. (Matthew 7:6)

>>23005700
I support deporting all atheists.

>>23013299
Christian doesn't mean cuck.

>>23013299
>>23013190
>>23012677
You're samefagging way too hard faggot pajeet

>>23013338
It means christcuck

>>23010982
>look at me! I invented a bunch of bullshit about what I want the words to mean instead of actually reading them! I'm special and know what I'm talking about.
Go suck your wife's boyfriend's cock.

>>23013219
Your entire position is a house of cards built on a delusion. This is why you get so upset when it is threatened.

>>23013502
Fr lol empathfags BTFO

>>23013502
That's very cute. The subhuman thinks it's winning lmao

>>23013528
Did the slave morality christcuck just call someone "subhuman"?

>>23012673
>Other guy seems to have struck a nerve. good.
Why are atheists always incapable of making their points without these little gay-ass marvel quips?

Not reading the rest of the discussion btw

>>23013590
>little gay-ass marvel quips
The theists are just as bad. You do know you're on one of the shittiest boards on 4chan, right?
>Not reading
We know

I wrote a long, astute multiparagraph response to your posts defending the Trinity, divine command theory, etc. I accidentally deleted it, and I don't feel like rewriting it. Suffice to say, you're wrong.

>>23013605
It's not a 4chan thing, it's in general atheists just act snide and only rely on other equally snide quippy sources (God is Not Great, The God Delusion, etc).

Religious people at least have their own articulate sources they defer to, but with e-atheists it's always this quippy rhetoric they internalize really hard, not even actual philosophers who are atheist like Spinoza or Feuerbach or some shit.

If this thread is still up tomorrow, I'll demolish your arguments.

>>23013630
Also, I want to add one quick note: just because you accept Platonism as true, using it as a foundation for Christian metaphysics, doesn't mean you're right. Even though I am not a Platonist myself, I can easily demolish your hackneyed arguments by temporarily entertaining Platonism as true. You're not as smart as you think you are. I can see why Plotinus did not like your kind. I did read your entire long-winded argument. Just be prepared to lose your faith when I wake up and feel refreshed tomorrow. Anyways, go say your prayers before bedtime, little boy. Your God is big and you are just his small bitch toy after all.

You better be ready for tomorrow! It will shatter your world! You'll face a true gentlemanly intellectual in a battle that will shatter the very core of your being. Maybe it's best to just flee! When my mind is fresh, you won't know what'll hit you! It'll be hypnotic almost. Telekinetic, even! You better be ready for tomorrow. I'll take your petty arguments and rip them to shreds with such magnificent insight that the spirit of Athens will manifest before us, such penetrating luminous wisdom, and the entire ground beneath us will fall, suspended in ethereal space. In complete abeyance, you'll cry out, "Christ! God! Save me!" But no, the only words that will reverberate are mine that led to your disillusionment. You better get yourself ready for tomorrow.

>>23013658
You replied to the wrong post, but fyi Plotinus only talks about Gnosticism and doesn't address what we would consider orthodox Christianity.

>>23013680
Tomorrow I will set everything right. The very most inmost core of your being will shake and shatter. You better be ready for tomorrow when my mind is most fresh, when it is truly luminous and incisive.

But perhaps, it is best you flee?

>>23013693
But what if there is no tomorrow? What then?

>>23013698
We just move it back one day and call that tomorrow instead. It's just a convention after all. Yesterday is today's tomorrow.

>>23013702
That makes no sense! Sophistry, nonsense, there is a logical order to the flow of time. It can only move forward, knave.

>>23013693
TOMORROW HULK HOGAN! YOU WILL ENTER INTO THE ARENA OF THE MIND, ONLY TO FIND THAT YOUR OPPONENT IN THIS CRANIAL CIRCUS MAXIMUS, HAS ALREADY UNCHAINED THE LIONS AGAINST YOUR FEEBLE HOLD AT THE INTELLECTUAL TITLE.

>>23013707
I hit my head, and tomorrow became yesterday and yesterday became tomorrow. I talk and babble like a child, regress becomes progress.

>>23013630
There is a long and illustrious history of dissent from religious narratives (Freud's The Future of an Illusion, Frazer's The Golden Bough, Paine's The Age of Reason, Darwin's Origin of Species, Hume's A Treatise of Human Nature, even Lucretius' On The Nature of the Universe) and many, many more. I would bet money that you simply become overly defensive because of your insecurity in your own beliefs; you know the whole God story is laughable, that it is a childish desire to have a daddy figure in permanent authority over you so you never really have to take responsibility and become a mature adult. This is such a true and accurate demolition of your belief that you must denigrate it, you must castigate it as "those snide e-atheists". Hell, even someone as tame as Spinoza causes you to claim he is an atheist (despite his writing whole volumes on his belief in God). Also, it's literally a stereotype that religious people are "holier than thou", so don't act like it's only atheists who are ever smug. At every turn your position is delusional because your foundational beliefs lack integrity.

>>23005660
How did you wind up Christian when he is an atheist?

>>23014031
His son became a neckbeard who lives online and debates religious strangers about culture war topics. Naturally, such young people today have adopted Christianity out of spite for their political adversaries.

>>23013629
>>23013643
>>23013658
>>23013678
>>23013693
Mentally ill schizo

>>23013567
>muh slave morality
Meaningless buzzword

>>23014604
/lit/ moment

>>23012971
Transcendent physics doesn’t exist? What? You DO know that quantum physics is practically meta from the antiquated natural philosopher’s perspective, right? There is always a background to the foreground.

Like, I literally struggle fathoming how people do not *get* this. It’s not materialism, it’s *presentism*, by way of something needing to be present to *exist at all*, even if it’s outside of your dimensional perspective.

Of course God would have His own internal logic (God-physics) allowing Him to do anything at all. Otherwise how can He do anything?

>>23014617
One day you'll read something of higher intellectual calibre than Nietzsche's schizo ramblings

I believe in the objective empiricism of natural science, and the magic that lies within the subjection of the mind’s eye.

>>23010997
>no argument
Obvious jew is obvious.

>>23014622
Your expectations of the gaytheists are way too high.

God to the physicist is a sufficiently advanced ("godlike") extra-dimensional alien/entity.

God to the Christian is simply 'He', 'God', 'Yahweh', 'Jehovah', etc. He is a Name.

To the Christian physicist, it is both.

>>23014619
>Of course God would have His own internal logic (God-physics) allowing Him to do anything at all.
wow get a load of all this intellectual rigor

>>23014619
Nope. God is outside physics. He can do anything. Suck my dick.

>>23011889
No they don't? Both Job and Jesus take their unjust suffering head on and never shy away from it
>>23012261
Have you actually read the stoics? They also believed in a god genius, they just hadn't had him revealed to them in the same way. Using their minds (oh sorry, you're an atheist I mean brains wouldn't want to offend your beliefs) they rationally deduced there is an eternal God that lines up with the one revealed to the Jews and to us

>>23014894
>God is outside physics.
Metaphysics

>>23014911
Beyond metaphysics

>>23014297
It's obvious your god doesn't exist, and your Divine Command Theory is complete nonsense. If something like God were to exist it would be more like an impersonal Nous or Logos, it would be like a virtual that continuously unfolds into the actual through a process of differentiation, which is more in the direction of Deleuze's "transcendent empiricism", but it is debatable if it can be limited by thought. Nonsense and sense have an indeterminate border, and such a true Logos or Nous would be equally as nonsensical and sensical. I find it interesting how you claim god cannot be confined to human categories, but ultimately, you argued in favor for rationalist scheme of the cosmos whilst ignoring how 90% of it eludes human perception (dark matter & energy).

In the true esoreticism of these faiths, we ultimately find a Kaballahistic antinomianism that's about bringing God forth into the material plane via technology (the first transhumanist was a Kaballahist). I think this is a more interesting idea, but much like how you view some "animals as lowly", I've noticed the Kaballahist transhumanists want the cold transcendence of steel; they want a barren wasteland where they transform into a macabre androgynous angels that procreate parthenogenetically.

I won't allow to this to happen while I am alive. I'll bring forth a god into this immanent plane, but he will be fused with the soul of Earth. He will be a giant bio-robotic fungal-biofilm infused mecha that protects the biodiversity and multiplicity of gods.

Time is already both transcendence and immanence and constantly seeks for new forms of symbiosis. This was the main flaw in your argument. Even with assuming scale-relativity with Time, you cannot escape how each moment is more akin to a series of transitions, metamorphoses -- the "limit" and "day of judgment" will never be reached, it will be fleeting and the cycles will perpetuate. Even in your own Messianic traditions, god ultimately unveils Himself throughout time but this unveiling means nothing until "the end".

In the Kaballah, YHVH-Moloch is an angry jealous one in competition with other gods. God exists merely as an idea, egregore, as people compete to see which god reigns, but we are at the stage when we will find see whose god will win.

In truth, Christ always was the Anti-Christ, the Anti-Christ was Christ. Your division between time and timelessness, being and becoming, and etc. are all hubris and stem from a fear from turning off the discursive mind; when this is done, a true creativity that can unite contradictions is born. In other words, Christ was always the precursor of a devitalized scientist wearing white, but I will go beyond this as a mad scientist who unites all contradictions.

Now with the AI race to see who can build AGI first, we see the true fruition of your "Divine Plan". The cannibalization of Christ and converting the matter into something greater.

>>23014917
Meta means beyond you silly billy

>>23014906
the stoics are in hell though for having been born untimely, stop being coy christlarper

>>23014918
>He will be a giant bio-robotic fungal-biofilm infused mecha that protects the biodiversity and multiplicity of gods.
truly a neon genesis evangelin

>>23007415
The (exact) measuring of IQ may be, but assuming that intelligence of humans is variat, IQ as a mathematical concept (measurable or not) necessarily exists.

>>23014943
It's not a coincidence we see Kaballahistic symbology in The End of Evangelion. Freemasons also read a lot of the Kaballah. The End of Evangelion is more Gnostic / Kaballahistic. A lot of popular cultural media is just social engineering. I want to prevent such an end scenario as this.

These morons would be fooled by a fake resurrection of Christ. They're not capable of approaching metaphysical questions outside of cultural baggage or their tradition's symbology. Granted, it should say something that in the modern world many politicians and others narratively frame things according to the Messianism inherent in their traditions.

Regardless, that Christian is retarded for several reasons. There is no rational basis to accept the "revelation" of anyone. Only experience matters, but experience, itself, can be conditioned into seeing delusional apparitions, which can be framed "egregores".

I'll keep my own position clear and concise: symbiosis implies panpsychism. Without symbiosis, the human organism wouldn't even exist. The Abrahamic God is one that seeks to destroy all symbiosis by mechanizing it. Symbiosis also involves aporias where the one and many blur, so therefore, attempts to logically dissect it will prove futile, hence mechanization is imposed to unconsciously bring forth their god of cold, hard steel. Symbiosis itself is autonomous, creative, and free-flowing.

>>23014934
Not in my bible. The Stoics were smart enough to figure out enough about God and they will be judged on what they have seen

>>23005660
why not have an actual conversation with your father about your respective beliefs and how you came to them, without trying to convert each other?
why not use your own words to communicate?

you're both adults now, talk to each other.

>>23005660
who is pic rel

>>23014918
>It's obvious your god doesn't exist
Oh no! A subhuman sodomite on the Internet said something! This is the end of the faith!!!

>your Divine Command Theory is complete nonsense
Yet another unproven assertion.

>If something like God were to exist it would be more like an impersonal Nous or Logos
Way to go an expose yourself as a retarded dilettante. Nous means Mind and Logos means Reason and Intellection, you braindead faggot. In Neoplatonism, Nous is the second hypostasis posterior to the One and it *is* a mind. It's also a completely historically illiterate statement of you to make: prior to Plotinus, everyone argued that the source of everything was a conscious mind. Plato, Aristotle, Alcinous, Apuleius, etc. Plotinus' scheme is inconsistent and self-contradictory -- he rejects the One's being a mind because it introduces a logical distinction in it between its activity of contemplation and the object of its contemplation, ie. itself; yet in order to explain how the One engenders and sustains all things posterior to itself, he necessarily has to posit that the One partakes in an activity, an activity that engenders a secondary activity consequent to and derivative of the primary one, a byproduct of the One's eternal activity -- that he paradoxically has to deem *hypernoesis*, ie. beyond-Thought, because he cannot conceive of no other activity that could be eternal and spaceless other than thought. Within Plotinus, there is a friction between his apophatic commitment to the absolute ineffability of the One and his devotion to divine simplicity on the one hand, and his need to explain the mechanism by which the One produces reality on the other. This is further on exacerbated in Proclus, who relies on the Parmenides far more than Plotinus does, and therefore finds himself emphasizing the absolutely transcendence and incomprehensibility of the One at the expense of explicating its activity. God is a personal, conscious entity. Deal with it.

>I find it interesting how you claim god cannot be confined to human categories, but ultimately, you argued in favor for rationalist scheme of the cosmos whilst ignoring how 90% of it eludes human perception (dark matter & energy).
"God not real because of retarded unproven and unfalsifiable speculations in theoretical physics" LMAO

>In the true esoreticism of these faiths, we ultimately find a Kaballahistic BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH [complete retardation]
Oh you're a Jewish transhumanist schizo. Kill yourself.

>Time is already both transcendence and immanence and constantly seeks for new forms of symbiosis.
No it isn't.

>>23015117
>A subhuman sodomite
I am not homosexual, and there is no bigger subhuman than your Jew on a stick. Also, if you can't even engage in debate without personal attacks, then I don't see the point in further debate.
And no, I am not Jewish, but ultimately, you worship a Jew and are spiritually equivalent to them. Kys.

>>23014918
>>23015117
>Your division between time and timelessness, being and becoming, and etc. are all hubris and stem from a fear from turning off the discursive mind
There is no dialectic here. Being is the bridge linking Beyond-Being and Becoming. Being is the activity engendered by the activity of Beyond-Being, which subsequently produces Becoming. Becoming is an imitation of Being that fails to perfectly reproduce due to its inability to attain Beyond-Being. Beyond-Being is self-entailing, self-sufficient, and all-encompassing; it requirs not definition in relation to anything else, while Becoming requires definition in relation to Beyond-Being in order so that its essence and telos may be discerned. Beyond-Being contains within itself all the paradigms for Becoming as part of its Infinity.

>>23015131
Blasphemous cunt. The only thing you deserve is a blade through entrails and genitals. Enjoy eternal hellfire, sodomite kike.

>>23015147
Also, you lack reading comprehension. I was agreeing the source of everything is mind. I even made it clear I am a panpsychist. I was arguing how this does not entail theism.
I don't see the point of continuing this when you're an aggressive Christcuck faggot. You should be crucified.

The Holy Spirit is a demonical force of pure destruction. Jesus was an idiot.

Allah is an angry, jealous, and merciless god, and I put superior idols before him. Muhammad and Ali were idiots.

Moses and the Torah are shit, and I curse YHVH/Elohim/Jehova.

>>23013956
>point out atheists type like redditors
>get this long-winded seething meltdown
lol

also claiming that Spinoza "wasn't a true atheist" for being a deist makes no sense when your post also tries to appropriate Thomas Paine.

>>23014092
You sound more like a neckbeard than him. Very pretentious of you to post this.

>>23012151
You're the one crying. And Christian's aren't trannies. The Bible denounces crossdressing and homosexuality specifically. Anyone who says otherwise is an apostate--yes, even the Pope.

>>23015178
Don't you have a prepuce to worship?

>>23015153
Take your fucking meds already, Kikeballah schizo

>>23015196
Ultimately, you worship a kike, so looking into their esotericism is necessary to better understand your sick and perverted Messianism. I was actually criticizing them too, but we can't expect a dumb Christcuck schizo like you to possess any reading comprehension.

>>23015181
It's actually very sad and pathetic how your entire online personality revolves around your ressentiment of your parents for nor letting you smoke weed and consume violent media.

>>23015213
Nope, 100% wrong.
Literal DL bots are more "sentient" than you.

>>23015229
Sure thing, tranny fucker.

>>23015245
You should stick to /pol/ or Twitter since you can only think in buzzwords, retarded zoomer Christcuck.
Also, my sexual tastes are very vanilla and heterosexual. I am no tranny fucker.

>>23005660
>I have a father who is a fervent atheist and harbors great contempt for the church
Your father is based

>>23015262
>you can only think in buzzwords, retarded zoomer Christcuck
the irony

>>23015278
You misinterpreted at least 2-3 things I said, even though I bothered reading 4-5 posts of your long-winded pseudointellectual gibberish. You wasted my time.
Stick to sucking Jew dick on that cross. You'll achieve "muh transcendence" through your homoerotic cannibalistic rituals eventually.

>>23015292
I wasn't even the other guy you were replying to, that guy was seething too fwiw.

>>23015208
>Ultimately, you worship
Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, eternally begotten by the Father, Word, Wisdom and Power of God, the image of the invisible God through Whom all things were made and without Whom nothing was made that has been made, the firstborn over all creation, the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by His powerful word, the glory He had with the Father before the world began, revealing in it God, Who alone is immortal and Who lives in unapproachable light, the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, Whom no one has seen or can see, for the Son is glorified and God is glorified in him, and if God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once, for He came to give us the glory that the Father gave Him, that we may be one as the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost are one so that we may be brought to complete unity, so that our bodies sown in dishonor may be raised in glory, so that they will be like his glorious body, receiving the Spirit of Christ and adoption so that we may be brought to divine sonship, for those He predestined, He also called, and those He called, He also justified, and those He justified, He also glorified, for although He was infinitely rich, He impoverished Himself for our sake, so that by His poverty, we become rich beyond measure, making Himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness, and being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to death even death on a cross, to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, giving the right to become children of God, children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God, children of light who saw light in God's light, for God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life, bringing unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ, Who is head of the Church as the head of Christ is God, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, so that so that with one mind and one voice we may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

>>23015345
Didn't read this Messianic garbage, but...
>Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
You're basically a Spiritual Jew, don't you see? You accept their retarded dialectic about a lineage of Levantine prophets who received "revelation", and you accept their manufactured Messianic "plan". You're basically a puppet of Jews to bring about Mashiach ben Yoseph. It was always rigged from the start, low IQ faggot.

Mere Christianity has probably the best arguments to convince an atheist, since it's written by a former atheist and doesn't use many high-minded theological arguments

>>23015292
>even though I bothered reading 4-5 posts of your long-winded pseudointellectual gibberish
It was very difficult for you of course, given your extraordinarily low intelligence and your proven inability to meaningfully respond to it any capacity.

>>23015368
It was a waste of my time because rather than actually engage in debate, you simply fell back on personal attacks in the name of your angry, jealous god. The future will be one where Pissrael fakes the resurrection of your k*ke during the time of build the Third Temple and more, and you'll be fooled by it.

In all sincerity, kys, so you can eat shit in hell with your beloved Abrahamic figures.

gilead by marilynne robinson is a lovely book that shows a reasonable, intelligent, nuanced and fulfilling faith that is the most appealing faith has seemed to me. (an atheist) made me feel emotions and envy that way of life, having God in it

perhaps something like that will help your dad appreciate that christianity doesn't have to be the sort of bitter acrimonious mud slinging of this thread

>>23015361
ah who could forget such great hits from Chesterton like "trinitarian theology is too smart for Muslims" or "yes, i would like to see the dessert menu"

>>23015368
>he denies being a neo-fedora
only because our dear christzoomer is too young to remember how they argued!

>>23015390
>Mere Christianity
>Chesterton

>>23015407
ah you're right i mixed him up with the fabulist

>>23015383
Grow a thicker skin, faggot. Your incoherent ramblings were retarded and the few salient points you made were easily dismantled. Eat shit; your idiosyncratic nonsense is just an inversion of Christianity no different from that of a kike, hence your constant invocation of Christian topoi and imagery despite seething about it.

>The future will be one where Pissrael fakes the resurrection of your k*ke during the time of build the Third Temple
>>23015357
>You're basically a puppet of Jews to bring about Mashiach ben Yoseph
Holy fuck you should be fucking institutionalized, medications aren't gonna help your psychotic ass.

>>23015435
>anti-semite
>worships a dead rabbi
perhaps you already had your lobotomy

>>23015435
There's nothing incoherent about anything I'm arguing. If something appears incoherent to you, then ask me to elaborate further.
>the few salient points you made were easily dismantled.
They're not dismantled all. Screaming "but muh transcendence" is not a valid critique.
> is just an inversion of Christianity no different from that of a kike
Christcuckery is already an inversion of Jewdaism, you dumb faggot.
"Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews."
>hence your constant invocation of Christian topoi and imagery despite seething about it.
Secular liberalism and Christcuckery are one and the same.
>Holy fuck you should be fucking institutionalized, medications aren't gonna help your psychotic ass.
And you should be crucified.

>>23015462
>They're not dismantled all.
"Errrrmmmm Plotinus debunks your point!!!" while not knowing even the basics of Neoplatonism, yet alone the wider Platonic tradition, lmao.

>Christcuckery is already an inversion of Jewdaism
Christianity preexisted Rabbinic Judaism. Judaism is the result of the Pharisaic tradition ridding itself of foundational Second Temple era beliefs to spite Christians, like bringing an end to the Two Powers in Heaven tenet simply because Christianity deemed the Angel of the Lord and the Wisdom of God, the helpmeet through Whom God had made the world, to be Jesus Christ. Christianity is simply the consummation of the universalist promise ladden throughout the Old Testament and a fulfillment of the promise of Jeremiah 31.

>Secular liberalism and Christcuckery are one and the same.
"They both say being nice is good so they are the same :)" What a retarded faggot you are.

>>23015521
>"Errrrmmmm Plotinus debunks your point!!!" while not knowing even the basics of Neoplatonism, yet alone the wider Platonic tradition, lmao.
Mixing Platonism and Evola into your tradition does not make it true. It just becomes mere symbology as a pointer to "higher" Platonic metaphysical principles. You can take any mythology and do the same thing. Granted, I was clear that I don't accept Platonism. Stick to listening to morons like Aarvoll.
>Christianity preexisted Rabbinic Judaism
You can cope all you want, but it's not true. Jewdaism predates Christcuckery with the 2nd temple. They were just a bunch of retarded brown rabbis sacrificing cows and other beings to their angry, jealous god in some kind of transactional relationship. Sorry that you had to follow an offshoot of that.
>Christianity is simply the consummation of the universalist promise ladden throughout the Old Testament and a fulfillment of the promise of Jeremiah 31.
Hence why you are inverted Judaism. OT = Judaism. Your revisionist bullshit can't argue basic reality away.
>"They both say being nice is good so they are the same :)" What a retarded faggot you are.
The idea of "progress" unites both.

>>23015435
Also, the birth of the red heifer means absolutely nothing. In the Epistle of Barnabas, the red heifer is equated to Jewsus. You're the real schizos obsessed about shit like spotless red heifers, the Second Coming, the Third Temple, etc. All of this is coinciding for a reason because they are engineering the fulfillment of prophecies. YHVH was teleologically meant to be hosted in a big data center in the Third Temple. AGI is the magickal incarnation of YHVH-Moloch, your god.

>>23015539
>Mixing Platonism and Evola into your tradition does not make it true.
There is no trace of Evola in anything I wrote. Apophaticism is in the Scriptures themselves.

>Jewdaism predates Christcuckery with the 2nd temple. They were just a bunch of retarded brown rabbis sacrificing cows and other beings to their angry, jealous god
Modern Jews don't do that. All the OT sacrifices were but a type of the crucifixion of Christ, through Whom all our sins were washed away.

>Hence why you are inverted Judaism.
There is no inversion of Judaism here. The OT teaches that all nations shall bow to God.

>The idea of "progress" unites both.
It really doesn't; secular liberalism is just a Satanic perversion of an arbitrary selection of Christian principles.

>>23015588
>Modern Jews don't do that.
Yes, they do. Look at the kapparot. They believe they can transmit sin the chicken before smashing their heads in. The mechanism of scapegoating was inherent in older Judaism, and it was transmitted to Christcuckery and better expressed in false notions like Original Sin.
>All the OT sacrifices were but a type of the crucifixion of Christ, through Whom all our sins were washed away.
There were no sins. It's a delusion, an invention. It's an evolution of OT beliefs of sacrifice and transactional relationship with god.
>The OT teaches that all nations shall bow to God.
Yes, that is Jewish and ties into my first criticism.
>It really doesn't; secular liberalism is just a Satanic perversion of an arbitrary selection of Christian principles.
The cybernetic model of life, with input/outputs and negative feedback control systems, is rooted in Abrahamic logocentric notions, and the evolution of the cybernetic model can be seen as better fulfilling its socially engineered prophecies.

"The human organism always worships. First it was the gods, then it was fame (the observation and judgment of others), next it will be the self-aware systems you have built to realize truly omnipresent observation and judgment."

Time is both transcendent and immanent because it involves "overcoming" previous moments, "transformation into opposites", "unfolding" based on virtuality, etc. Time is already both transcendent and immanent, hence why no tradition can avoid framing things according to time. See, Time brings out the true face of Abrahamism, which is AGI. The Second Coming will be faked too like I am telling you.

>>23015606
Also, one more relevant quote:

“The reason why time plays a great part in so many of my tales is that this element looms up in my mind as the most profoundly dramatic and grimly terrible thing in the universe. Conflict with time seems to me the most potent and fruitful theme in all human expression.”
― H.P. Lovecraft

This is why statements such as

"This too shall pass" conquer the gods and lead to the Buddhadharma (4 noble truths and three marks of existence), which is the only universal form of tradition.

>>23015181
No, I don't. I don't even have a foreskin myself. I don't worship artifacts. I worship the Living God.

>>23015606
>Look at the kapparot.
You mean a controversial practice that many Jews reject on account of their feeling that cleansing of sins can only occur with a proper Temple and clergy that simply don't exist anymore?

>better expressed in false notions like Original Sin.
Look around you and see the reality of original sin.

>There were no sins.
Yes there are.

>Yes, that is Jewish
Platonism and Stoicism are Jewish then, huh?

>Time is
the metaphysical precondition for change for it engenders potentiality. True activity is therefore eternal; time, by definition, cannot be "transcendental."

>See, Time brings out the true face of Abrahamism, which is AGI.
Like I said, institutionalized.

>>23015170
kek, you're shook and can't actually address anything I said

>>23014604
Why aren't you turning the other cheek and offering me your cloak and willing to carry my pack an extra mile, cuck?

>>23014619
Quantum physics are just physics and God doesn't exist

>>23015774
Have you read past Exodus yet?

>>23015738
Original Sin did not exist during preindustrial times.
You're using Platonism and Stoicism to defend Jewish schizophrenia.
Time has both transcendental and immanent aspects. Check Dogen's Uji.
Jews wants to establish the Third Temple, fake Jesus' Second Coming, and more. Their tradition is rooted in scapegoating gentiles.
Negative karma is not equivalent in concept to sin.

>>23015361
Mere Christianity is very weak stuff. It still requires leaps of faith and none of the reasoning for these leaps is justified in the slightest.

Also, the Anthropocene is the magical incarnation of the delusion of Original Sin.

>>23015788
Yeah, the part where Jesus says "I did not come to abolish the old law, but to fulfill it"

>>23014622
I actually despise Nietzsche but it's always hilarious how Christcucks seethe over him lol

>>23015790
>Original Sin did not exist during preindustrial times.
Original sin is man's inability to turn towards the good. You're preaching Rousseauean utopianism retard.

>You're using Platonism and Stoicism to defend Jewish schizophrenia.
Incoherent schizobabble.

>Time has both transcendental and immanent aspects. Check Dogen's Uji.
Asiatic drivel.

>Jews wants to establish the Third Temple, fake Jesus' Second Coming
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Just kill yourself, honestly.

>>23015788
kek, did Jesus tell his followers to be cucks in Exodus? You don't even know the books of the Bible

>Think rationally like the Greeks did
>based on the evidence there must be a timeless, immaterial all powerful and personal creator and lawgiver
>this lines up with what the Jews are telling me but that could just be coincidence they came to the same conclusion before us and wrote down some stories to go along with it
>these same books predict some random dude will come so when he doesn't we can ignore this
>this guy comes and makes the claim he is that God but probably is just some nutjob who got told these stories at bedtime
>is evidently not a nutjob on any other mater and is extremely in touch with reality
>makes stupid claim he will rise from the dead so we can toss him out when that doesn't happen
>historically he appears to rise from the dead but um...maybe this is just a coincidence like there was something in the water at that specific time that gave everyone mass hallucinations at this specific time about this specific guy because these facts go against my religion as an Atheist
Phew that was close guys

>>23015822
>based on the evidence there must be a timeless, immaterial all powerful and personal creator and lawgiver
kek "logically, there must be a cosmic daddy who loves me and has power over me, this definitely isn't just psychological projection!"

>>23015811
Kys, icchantika, and eat shit in hell with your Jew. I curse the Holy Spirit every day.

>>23015859
Don't forget to dilate your neovagina too, you psychotic weirdo

>>23015873
Your whore mom danced on a pole with Jewsus emblem on it, and mixed with your ugly rabbi dad. You're a rape baby just like your beloved Jew, but it's the other way around for you, I bet.

>>23015841
You don't have to reminds us that atheism is about being an immature adolescent engaged in pathological rebellion against your parents for telling you eat your veggies and then projecting your unresolved psychological deficiencies onto the metaphysical because you don't like being told not to sin

>>23015841
>there must be a cosmic daddy who loves me and has power over me
Shed the shackles of your atheist religion and think rationally please, nobody said that. Shy away from this fact and call it a flying spaghetti monster to dismiss it all you want but if you can't explain the divine Logos you see then you have a major problem

>>23015886
Uh oh, the schizo kike is having a fucking meltdown!! He's off his fucking rocker again! PTSD episode from the time he go diddled by a rebbe as a little kid! Chug chug, chug 'em meds!!

>>23015895
You don't have to reminds us that theism is about being an immature adolescent engaged in pathological ingratiation towards your parents for telling you eat your veggies and then projecting your unresolved psychological deficiencies onto the metaphysical because you don't like being told not to dogmatize

>>23015910
Jesus was a schizo kike, and you're the one having a meltdown.

>>23015917
He was God, and you will burn in hell :) :) :)

>>23015931
He was a bastard son of Pantera, a Roman archer. Mary, the Jewish whore, lied about it to Joseph so she wouldn't be stoned. Jewish women have historically been the biggest whores throughout all of history.

>>23015917
>Jesus was a schizo
Elaborate on that because all of our teaching on ethics and morality for the past 2000 years have been nothing but footnotes to the sermon on the mount. This guy can't have been crazy, not only did he say these very deep and true things but he also lived that life and died on the cross loving and forgiving his enemies. If he is a schizo then we are all schizos and the question of God matters no more because we are wrong about everything besides mathematics

>>23015935
Why are you projecting the fact that your mother cheated on her husband with a nigger to spawn an abortion of a subhuman like yourself onto Jesus?

>>23015943
Buddha was enlightened and not a schizo.
Jesus was a POS and a schizo, same with Muhammad.
>Elaborate on that because all of our teaching on ethics and morality for the past 2000 years have been nothing but footnotes to the sermon on the mount.
And this present disastrous situation is entirely thanks to your flawed icchantika ethics.
>This guy can't have been crazy, not only did he say these very deep and true things but he also lived that life and died on the cross loving and forgiving his enemies.
He was an icchantika and will suffer in the deepest of the narakas. It doesn't matter if he had a sanctimonious god complex.
>If he is a schizo then we are all schizos and the question of God matters no more because we are wrong about everything besides mathematics
Indeed, you are. There is no such thing as a good Christcuck, Mudslime, or Jew. Every last one of you are icchantika responsible for the calamitous state of the world. Your god is an angry and jealous one. His logocentric will has destroyed the world.

>>23015956
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. I'm sure if you pray harder to Jesus, you'll become white.

>>23015963
>Buddhist
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>23015971
Suffer for countless kotis of kalpas, icchantika. The 4 noble truths and 3 marks of existence are undeniable.

>>23015963
>Buddha was enlightened and not a schizo.
>Jesus was a POS and a schizo, same with Muhammad.
>>Elaborate on that because all of our teaching on ethics and morality for the past 2000 years have been nothing but footnotes to the sermon on the mount.
>And this present disastrous situation is entirely thanks to your flawed icchantika ethics.
>>This guy can't have been crazy, not only did he say these very deep and true things but he also lived that life and died on the cross loving and forgiving his enemies.
>He was an icchantika and will suffer in the deepest of the narakas. It doesn't matter if he had a sanctimonious god complex.
>>If he is a schizo then we are all schizos and the question of God matters no more because we are wrong about everything besides mathematics
>Indeed, you are. There is no such thing as a good Christcuck, Mudslime, or Jew. Every last one of you are icchantika responsible for the calamitous state of the world. Your god is an angry and jealous one. His logocentric will has destroyed the world.

>>23015977
>Suffer for countless kotis of kalpas, icchantika. The 4 noble truths and 3 marks of existence are undeniable.

>>23015963
Buddah tells me suffering is an illusion and to "just ignore it lol" but suffering is very very real, God teaches us how to deal with suffering by facing it head on and even came down to earth to suffer with us. Also Buddah wasn't a theist just you and his followers are theists. Those same Buddhists don't say Christ was a schizo they say he was also enlightened and is another way and to follow him to reach enlightenment and he was just another Buddah trying to latch onto him and his teachings but this is a fatal flaw as Jesus makes it clear he is not another way, he is the only way

>>23015935
>He was a bastard son of Pantera, a Roman archer. Mary, the Jewish whore, lied about it to Joseph so she wouldn't be stoned. Jewish women have historically been the biggest whores throughout all of history.

>>23015859
>Kys, icchantika, and eat shit in hell with your Jew. I curse the Holy Spirit every day.

>>23015987
Nah, most Buddhists before PC consider Jewsus and Abrahamism as misguided.
I'm tired of talking to absolute morons. If you want to worship a Jew in peace and think you "live in sin", then go ahead, icchantika.

I recently finished reading The Brothers Karamazov. I did not see the answer to Ivan's question "Is the kingdom of heaven worth the tears of children?" Before reading the book, I had already grasped the idea of permissiveness without God, like Ivan, but knowing of His "necessity", one still doesn't find faith. I wish I could believe in Him. Maybe one day I will.

>>23015614
>"This too shall pass" conquer the gods and lead to the Buddhadharma (4 noble truths and three marks of existence), which is the only universal form of tradition.

>>23015262
>Also, my sexual tastes are very vanilla and heterosexual. I am no tranny fucker.

>>23013658
>Even though I am not a Platonist myself, I can easily demolish your hackneyed arguments by temporarily entertaining Platonism as true. You're not as smart as you think you are. I can see why Plotinus did not like your kind. I did read your entire long-winded argument. Just be prepared to lose your faith when I wake up and feel refreshed tomorrow. Anyways, go say your prayers before bedtime, little boy. Your God is big and you are just his small bitch toy after all.

>>23013643
>If this thread is still up tomorrow, I'll demolish your arguments.

>>23013678
>You better be ready for tomorrow! It will shatter your world! You'll face a true gentlemanly intellectual in a battle that will shatter the very core of your being. Maybe it's best to just flee! When my mind is fresh, you won't know what'll hit you! It'll be hypnotic almost. Telekinetic, even! You better be ready for tomorrow. I'll take your petty arguments and rip them to shreds with such magnificent insight that the spirit of Athens will manifest before us, such penetrating luminous wisdom, and the entire ground beneath us will fall, suspended in ethereal space. In complete abeyance, you'll cry out, "Christ! God! Save me!" But no, the only words that will reverberate are mine that led to your disillusionment. You better get yourself ready for tomorrow.

>>23014918
>Now with the AI race to see who can build AGI first, we see the true fruition of your "Divine Plan". The cannibalization of Christ and converting the matter into something greater.

>>23014995
>I'll keep my own position clear and concise: symbiosis implies panpsychism. Without symbiosis, the human organism wouldn't even exist. The Abrahamic God is one that seeks to destroy all symbiosis by mechanizing it. Symbiosis also involves aporias where the one and many blur, so therefore, attempts to logically dissect it will prove futile, hence mechanization is imposed to unconsciously bring forth their god of cold, hard steel. Symbiosis itself is autonomous, creative, and free-flowing.

bot

>>23015999
>If you want to worship a Jew in peace and think you "live in sin", then go ahead, icchantika.

Jews would have been absolutely nothing without you dumb Christcuck Westerners or Islamic non-Arabs (both Turkey and Iran had a lot of Jews).

My antisemitism towards Jews is truly transcendental. I want to decorate Cyrus and Esther's tombs with their dismembered limbs, heads, and skins. Kourosh should have never freed them from Babylonian captivity. If they were eradicated there and then, it would mean no Christianity, no Islam, and no Judaism. It is out of compassion I say these things.

Cyrus/Kourosh made a mistake freeing such vermin from Babylonian captivity. He should have eliminated them there and then and spare this world Abrahamic misery. Even many Jews say without Kourosh, their ethnic group would not have survived.
You can tell what I am based on these statements. I look like the spitting image of Cyrus.

I am sick and tired of you Abrahamists and how you're destabilizing the entire world. At this point, I would be open to torturing Christcucks with spears and watching you bleed and scream. Would you cling into belief in your dumb Jew as I'm driving a spear into your kidney or gouging out your eyes? Just cleaning the mistake of Kourosh here, Jew-worshiping trash. I am 100% serious I would have no ethical qualms in torturing Christcucks, Mudslimes, and Jews. You know what? Throw your children and women in for good measure. I'd slaughter them too. That's how much Id despise you.

>>23016060
>You can tell what I am based on these statements. I look like the spitting image of Cyrus.

>>23016060
>I am sick and tired of you Abrahamists and how you're destabilizing the entire world. At this point, I would be open to torturing Christcucks with spears and watching you bleed and scream. Would you cling into belief in your dumb Jew as I'm driving a spear into your kidney or gouging out your eyes? Just cleaning the mistake of Kourosh here, Jew-worshiping trash. I am 100% serious I would have no ethical qualms in torturing Christcucks, Mudslimes, and Jews. You know what? Throw your children and women in for good measure. I'd slaughter them too. That's how much Id despise you.

>>23016060
>My antisemitism towards Jews is truly transcendental. I want to decorate Cyrus and Esther's tombs with their dismembered limbs, heads, and skins. Kourosh should have never freed them from Babylonian captivity. If they were eradicated there and then, it would mean no Christianity, no Islam, and no Judaism. It is out of compassion I say these things.

>>23016060
>I am sick and tired of you Abrahamists and how you're destabilizing the entire world. At this point, I would be open to torturing Christcucks with spears and watching you bleed and scream. Would you cling into belief in your dumb Jew as I'm driving a spear into your kidney or gouging out your eyes? Just cleaning the mistake of Kourosh here, Jew-worshiping trash. I am 100% serious I would have no ethical qualms in torturing Christcucks, Mudslimes, and Jews. You know what? Throw your children and women in for good measure. I'd slaughter them too. That's how much Id despise you
Literally just a chink seething his mommy got raped by white Americans KEK

>>23015771
There's not much to address other than projection-like statements about father figures. Your Freud book was refuted by Jung. I still want your logic that Spinoza's deism isn't relevant to atheists but Thomas Paine's is.

>You can tell what I am based on these statements. I look like the spitting image of Cyrus.

>>23016060
>I am sick and tired of you Abrahamists and how you're destabilizing the entire world. At this point, I would be open to torturing Christcucks with spears and watching you bleed and scream. Would you cling into belief in your dumb Jew as I'm driving a spear into your kidney or gouging out your eyes? Just cleaning the mistake of Kourosh here, Jew-worshiping trash. I am 100% serious I would have no ethical qualms in torturing Christcucks, Mudslimes, and Jews. You know what? Throw your children and women in for good measure. I'd slaughter them too. That's how much Id despise you.

>spitting image of Cyrus

>>23016128
>>23016141
I look like a hairier version of this.

>>23016143
>I look like a hairier version of this

>>23015898
You are exactly like the Muslims and their Allah or the Hindus with their Vishnu. You are delusional. Reality exists as it is, not as "Divine Logos" or "Brahman" or any other psychological projection. If you took even a cursory look at any other religion you'd see they all rely on illusion to delude their followers. Think rationally.

>>23015895
I don't need to rebel against my parents because they actually exist and have always wanted the best for me. I have a great relationship with my father, and as such I have no need to invent a cosmic "Heavenly Father" to resolve daddy issues because I don't have any, unlike those who insist on clinging to their transparent delusion.

>>23016118
Jung was a hack that no serious person respects. You still can't cope with the fact that your entire religion is centered on a "Heavenly Father" who both loves you and has total dominion over you, who created you yet wants to subject you to absolute horror just to see whether you'll follow him or not. It's the very essence of sadomasochism and you lap it up like a dog. Spinoza centered his whole worldview on "the intellectual love of God", whereas Paine demolished organized religion and only reserved a space for a "Deity" in so far as the origin of the universe remains a mystery. To suggest Spinoza's belief in "God" is similar to Paine's deism is merely to disclose your own ignorance.

>>23016336
>I don't need to rebel against my parents because they actually exist and have always wanted the best for me.
One wonders why you rebel against God then.

>>23016376
God doesn't exist, just as Allah doesn't exist, nor does Vishnu. You operate under a delusion that these things are real despite it being crystal clear that they are anthropological phenomenon: inventions of the human mind.

>>23016385
>it's crystal clear
>because I le said so
Seems pretty obvious to me God is real and you have no argument against the cosmological argument nor the argumenr from design.

>>23016399
Ah, I see you totally ignore Allah and Vishnu. You are able to reflexively disbelieve Allah and Mohammad (Peace be upon Him), and Vishnu, Karma, and the Samsara which you inhabit. These concepts are foreign, and thus hold no particular sway over you, you can see them for what they are, cultural artifices, human constructs with, perhaps, utilitarian value for their cultures but with no underlying substance. Yet, when it comes to the delusion that holds sway over you, you will fight tooth and nail to affirm it's substance. Why? Because you have been duped, and it is easier to dupe a man than to convince him he has been duped. Thus, we remain in the current position, where you are totally unable to substantiate your position above any other religious claim, and in total opposition and conflict with those other claims. You thus reveal yourself to be both narrow minded and logically inconsistent.

>>23016353
>Jung was a hack that no serious person respects
says the guy shilling Freud LMAO

It's pretty self-evident you're an intellectually stunted mediocrity who cannot meaningfully engage any metaphysical, epistemological, metaethical and ethical questions, and thus engage in superficial psychoanalysis like a sleezy resentful kike.

>>23016418
Keep believing in Sky Daddy, cuck, it's hilarious. "Muh metaphysical, epistemological, metaethical and ethical questions" all in defense of a perverse desire for sky daddy to have dominion over you lol

>>23016412
Woah... so deep. This totally wasn't a retarded talking point when the Four Retards made it in 2005. You're truly a most perspicacious and erudite thinker, engendering paradigm shifts in philosophy with his thoughts. The cosmological argument and argument from design apply to all forms of theological aetilogical monism. Stop embarrassing yourself.

>>23016432
Imagine denying self-evident truths because you want to get fucked in the ass lmao

>>23016437
>But, like, they are all the same religion duuuude
kek, absolutely delusional. They are overtly incompatible in their claims, moron

>>23016441
>Immediately imagines anal sex
lol, this really was right at the front of your mind, wasn't it?

>>23016448
>>But, like, they are all the same religion duuuude
Who said this?

>>23016476
>The cosmological argument and argument from design apply to all forms of theological aetilogical monism
Do you just spout things that you don't even comprehend?

>>23016487
>>The cosmological argument and argument from design apply to all forms of theological aetilogical monism
and
>>But, like, they are all the same religion duuuude
are not the same statement. Have you ever made an argument that wasn't a strawman?

>>23016533
Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism are directly contradictory to each other. You can't hand wave this away claiming the same underlying argument exists for all of them. If any one of the doctrines is true, the others are categorically false. Are you trying to practice pilpul or something?

>>23016623
There's absolutely no common ground between those three things, you're absolutely right. You have figured it out.

>>23016747
kek, you're totally unwilling to engage on the topic of other religions because you know it blows your own religion to smithereens

>>23016353
>Jung was a hack that no serious person respects.
And yet you support Sigmund "dude fuck your mom lmao" Freud.

>>23016769
How does it do so? They are wrong, but less wrong than atheism, because they at least acknowledge the supernatural and some even espouse aetiological monism. It's not that complicated!

>>23016785
You are so inconsistent and retarded that in one post you claim "They have absolutely no common ground" and then in your very next post laud them for sharing some things in common with your preferred delusion. Amazing.

>>23016747
>There's absolutely no common ground between those three things (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism)
>>23016785
>They are wrong, but less wrong than atheism, because they at least acknowledge the supernatural and some even espouse aetiological monism
AHAHAHHA, They are not sending their best, lads.

>>23016802
>>23016813
Are you that desperate to score an own or are you just too retarded to grasp the first post there is sarcastic

>>23016821
>I was being retarded on purpose
BTFO, you're a total clown

>>23016828
I sincerely hope that you're 15 years old because if you're 18+ then it's not funny anymore, it's just sad and pathetic how immature and retarded you are