/lit/ - Literature

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There's nothing that can break my faith at this point. Definetly not some faggot apologist like picrel.

>>22769638
>>22769650
>(You)

>>22769650
I used to think the same. It was fucked up when I started losing it. You are capable of losing it.

>>22769661
>(You)

>>22769667
QRD?

>>22769633
Can you summarize his arguments? I'm an atheist but I've never read a book like this because they always struck me as kinda cringey

>>22769670
This, but unironically.

>>22769678
There is no main thrust, it's more like death by a thousand cuts.

>>22769683
Yet you list zero

>>22769678
the second coming of logical positivism but repackaged for the philosophically illiterate of the 21st century, idk just guessing

>>22769633
Okay, but why was he so fat?

>>22769670
>"God saved me from cancer because of my faith"
>Ignores the dead children from cancer

>>22769699
Why do outspoken atheists all have this greasy middle aged boozer look?

>>22769633
Lol read Celsus and Porphyry now they obliterated the CQ with fax and lawgic thousands of years ago

>>22769678
I didnt read it but ill try. Here are they:
>church did bad things :'(
>world is cruel, if god good then why >:(
>jesus didnt stop my wife from leaving me
I think i got most of them here. OP is free to add

>>22769715
refuted by Origen (pubh)

>>22769678
Religion makes people act worse because it convinces them that a divine authority sanctions wicked actions. It's common place in war for leaders to convince the rank and file that God is on their side (Nazi belt buckles were engraved with "Gott Mits Uns" meaning God is on our side). Also, genital mutilation is entirely pushed by religion, even today in first world countries this barbaric practice is shockingly commonly inflicted on babies. Second, faith is a terrible reason to believe anything. Consider that all religions around the world are based on faith at rock bottom. These religions are also mutually exclusive, if one is true all others are false, and in fact, if one sect of one religion is true it means all other sects are false in many cases. Thus, those who believe on faith are going to be wrong more than right, and this is if you allow that one is true (when in reality they are likely all false due to the psychological projection inherent in every religion, indicating they are entirely man made). Third, religion has historically prevented innovation and free thinking as a threat and challenge to the power base in that religion. Thus, many people have been killed, threatened, silenced, and had their work destroyed by religious zealots unwilling to allow other ideas the chance to be heard and weighed on the merits of the claims.

>>22769633
>This book annihilated my faith in Jesus Christ
Fake

>>22769721
>worse
Are you 10? What acting worse mean man? Lit nothing

>>22769721
wow, im on the verge of becoming an atheist after reading that

>>22769735
Acting worse = causing more unnecessary harm. Are you younger than 10 that you don't already understand this?

>>22769735
>What acting worse mean man?
Mutilating children's genitals is a start.

>>22769721
Ah so it's pretty standard stuff then

>>22769753
I never really understood the people who are really bitter about being circumcised. Yeah it's a barbaric and antiquated practice but it's not like I'm sad or angry that I don't have a foreskin, I've never known anything else. Guys who make a big thing of it always seem like they're displacing some of their other sexual hangups onto it

>>22769761
He explicitly builds on a tradition of free speech and free thinking by referencing a long line of historical figures who had to deal with religious/authoritarian persecution for their ideas from Socrates to Voltaire to Thomas Paine to Spinoza to Darwin. This is "pretty standard stuff" in large part due to the polemical way the New Atheists compiled, formalized, and popularized it, and Hitchens does so with wit and cutting honesty (like the section detailing the real Jewish practice of circumcision where the rabbis used their mouth to bite and suck off the foreskin of babies, yes, that is the authentic practice).

Religion might not always be moral, but there's levels of moral and material misery into wich only an atheist can fall.

>>22769638
Why do you have reddit installed on your phone

>>22769776
You're literally missing out on sexual experience. There are a massive amount of nerve endings in the foreskin, and you have basically been forced to only have access to muted sex (which was actually one of the reasons for it, the most prominent historic Jewish philosopher, Maimonides, explicitly said circumcision was good because it dulls the sexual sensation)

https://old.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/xnt9gq/well_youre_not_that_great_yourself_mr_hitchens_a/

>>22769786
> Muh sex
> SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX
> SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXXXX!

Chapter One: Putting It Mildly
He discusses why human beings have a tendency towards being "faithful" and argues that religion will remain entrenched in the human consciousness as long as human beings cannot overcome their primitive fears, particularly that of their own mortality. He concludes by saying that he would not want to eradicate religion if the faithful would "leave him alone," but ultimately they are incapable of this.[

Chapter Two: Religion Kills
n this vein, Hitchens addresses a hypothetical question that he was asked while on a panel with radio host Dennis Prager: if he were alone in an unfamiliar city at night, and a group of strangers began to approach him, would he feel safer, or less safe, knowing that these men had just come from a prayer meeting? Hitchens answers:

Just to stay within the letter 'B', I have actually had that experience in Belfast, Beirut, Bombay, Belgrade, Bethlehem and Baghdad. In each case ... I would feel immediately threatened if I thought that the group of men approaching me in the dusk were coming from a religious observance.[8]

He gives detailed descriptions of the tense social and political situations within these cities, which he personally experienced and attributes to religion. He has thus "not found it a prudent rule to seek help as the prayer meeting breaks up."

Chapter Three: A Short Digression On The Pig; or, Why Heaven Hates Ham
Hitchens suggests that the pork prohibition found in Semitic religions may be based in the proscription of human sacrifice, extended to pigs because of the similarities in appearance and flavor between pork and human flesh

Chapter Four: A Note On Health, To Which Religion May Be Hazardous
Hitchens explains how some religions can be hostile to disease treatment. He writes that many Muslims saw the polio vaccine as a conspiracy, and thus allowed polio to spread.[15] He discusses the Catholic Church's response to the spread of HIV in Africa, telling people that condoms are ineffective, which, he argues, contributed to the death toll.[16] He notes with examples that some in both the Catholic and the Muslim communities believe irrationally that HIV and HPV are punishment for sexual sin—particularly homosexuality.[17] He describes religious leaders as "faith healers," and opines that they are hostile to medicine because it undermines their position of power

Chapter Five: The Metaphysical Claims of Religion Are False
tchens begins by saying that the strong faith that could stand up to any form of reason is long gone. he claims that religion becomes obsolete as an explanation when it becomes optional or one among many different beliefs. many religionists now feel the need to move beyond mere faith and cite evidence for their beliefs.

>>22769796
> muh religion is based on fear of death
> b-but I'm more afraid of people who came from church than people who want to rob me at night!
> no! Not le heckin medications even though I'm not afraid of death!
Shizo babble.

>>22769751
>causing more unnecessary harm
You cant control or predict the reaction of people so, by your definition, it is literally impossible to know when you are going to do good and when bad. You can say you can predict some, like hitting someone will make him suffer. Okay but you cant predict consequences ie something that causes temporary harm can easily end being the greatest thing that ever happened to him because of the chain of consequences

Also, imagine your mother wants you to be a doctor but you are a bus driver, you are causing her harm, is it acting badly? According to you, big yes

>>22769633
true faith is unaffected by apologetics, for or against. it does not deal in or concern itself with the realm of the merely factual. I love the biblical Christ, and also maintain the possibility that he never "existed."

>>22769786
Everyone says that but I just don't care. I enjoy sex plenty anyway and again, I've literally never known anything else. As far as I'm concerned my options are either get on with my life or get mad about something I can't change. It's dying out anyway, being an angry freak about it doesn't help anyone, least of all yourself

>>22769782
Maybe because he is a redditor, dumbass

>>22769796
Jesus Christ, that is trash. Complete and utter missunderstanding of religion teaching. There should be an IQ requirement before writing a book

>>22769796
I find it hilarious that I've seen all of these as defenses of Eastern Orthodoxy on here lmfao

>>22769721
This is very basic bitch. I thought I was smart for knowing this at 15.

>>22769796
Chapter Six: Arguments From Design
He discusses the design arguments, using examples such as the human body wearing out in old age as bad design. He writes that if evolution had taken a slightly different course, there would be no guarantee at all that organisms remotely like humans would ever have existed.

Chapter Seven: The Nightmare Of The Old Testament
Hitchens lists anachronisms and inconsistencies in the Old Testament, stating that many of the "gruesome, disordered events ... never took place".[20] He says the Pentateuch is "an ill-carpentered fiction, bolted into place well after the non-events that it fails to describe convincingly or even plausibly".[21] He points out that when Moses orders parents to have their children stoned to death (see also List of capital crimes in the Torah) for indiscipline (citing Deuteronomy[22]) it is probably a violation of at least one of the very commandments which Moses received from God. He notes that Moses "continually makes demented pronouncements ('He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord')."[

Chapter Eight: The "New" Testament Exceeds The Evil Of The "Old" One
Hitchens does argue that the "multiple authors—none of whom published anything until many decades after the Crucifixion—cannot agree on anything of importance".there is "little or no evidence for the life of Jesus".

tchens also outlines the inaccuracy in Luke's attempt to triangulate three world events of the time with Jesus's birth: the census ordered by Augustus of the entire Roman world, the reign of King Herod in Judea and that of Quirinius as governor of Syria

Hitchens refers to The Passion of the Christ as "a soap-opera film about the death of Jesus ... produced by an Australian fascist and ham actor named Mel Gibson",

He further contends that the many "contradictions and illiteracies" of the New Testament, while extensively covered by other authors, have never been explained except as "metaphor" and "a Christ of faith". He states that the "feebleness" of the Bible is a result of the fact that until recently, Christians faced with arguments against the logic or factualness of the Bible "could simply burn or silence anybody who asked any inconvenient questions".[

Hitchens points out the problematic implications of the scriptural proclamation "he that is without sin among you, let him cast a first stone" with regard to the practical legislation of retributive justice: "if only the non-sinners have the right to punish, then how could an imperfect society ever determine how to prosecute offenders?"

>>22769854


Chapter Nine: The Koran Is Borrowed From Both Jewish and Christian Myths
Chapter nine assesses the religion of Islam, and examines the origin of its holy book, the Quran. Hitchens asserts that there is no evidence for any of the "miraculous" claims about Muhammad, and that the Koran's origin was not supernatural. He contends that the religion was fabricated by Muhammad or his followers and that it was borrowed from other religious texts

Chapter Ten: The Tawdriness Of The Miraculous And The Decline Of Hell
Chapter ten discusses miracles. Hitchens says that no supernatural miracles occur, nor have occurred in history.


Chapter Eleven: Religion's Corrupt Beginnings
Chapter eleven discusses how religions form, and claims that most religions are founded by corrupt, immoral individuals.

Chapter Twelve: A Coda: How Religions End
Chapter twelve discusses the termination of several religions, to illustrate that some religions are not everlasting, as they claim. The religions addressed include Millerism and Sabbatai Sevi.

Chapter Thirteen: Does Religion Make People Behave Better?
Hitchens addresses the question of whether religious people behave more virtuously than non-religious people (atheists, agnostics, or freethinkers). He uses the battle against slavery in the United States, and Abraham Lincoln, to support his claim that non-religious people battle for moral causes with as much vigor and effect as religious advocates.


Chapter Fourteen: There Is No "Eastern" Solution
Hitchens dismisses the idea of seeking enlightenment through nirvana as a conceit that asks adherents to "put their reason to sleep, and to discard their minds along with their sandals"[35] in chapter fourteen, which focuses on maladaptive and immiserating Hindu and Buddhist feudalism and violence in Tibet and Sri Lanka

>>22769854
> using examples such as the human body wearing out in old age as bad design. He writes that if evolution had taken a slightly different course
Stopped reading, authors who believe in the theory of evolution detest me to the bones

>>22769862
>theory of evolution
Any source which can teach me why it is false?

>>22769860
Chapter Fifteen: Religion As An Original Sin

Chapter 15 discusses five aspects of religions that Hitchens maintains are "positively immoral":

Presenting a false picture of the world to the credulous
The doctrine of blood sacrifice to appease gods (such as by the Aztecs)
The doctrine of atonement (harming innocent people to atone for sins)
The doctrine of eternal reward or eternal punishment
The imposition of impossible tasks or rules (including unhealthy views of sexuality

Chapter Seventeen: An Objection Anticipated

Chapter seventeen addresses the most common counter-argument that Hitchens says he hears, namely that the most immoral acts in human history were performed by atheists like Joseph Stalin. He says "it is interesting that people of faith now seek defensively to say they are no worse than fascists or Nazis or Stalinists". Hitchens began his rebuttal by tracing the understanding of the Nazis or Stalinists, to the concept of totalitarianism probably first used by Victor Serge and then popularized by Hannah Arendt.[39] He appreciates the difference between totalitarianism and despotism, with the former being absolutist systems that demand total surrender of the private lives and personalities of their subjects.[40] On this definition of totalitarianism, Hitchens finds the totalitarian principle laden in many non-secular states and regimes.[41]

He analyzes those examples of immorality, and shows that although the individual leaders may have been atheist or agnostic, that religion played a key role in these events, and religious people and religious leaders fully participated in the wars and crimes.

Chapter Eighteen: A Finer Tradition: The Resistance Of The Rational
Chapter eighteen discusses several important intellectuals, including Socrates, Albert Einstein, Voltaire, Baruch Spinoza, Thomas Paine, Charles Darwin, and Isaac Newton. Hitchens claims that many of these people were atheists, agnostics, or pantheists, except for Socrates and Newton. He says that religious advocates have attempted to misrepresent some of these icons as religious, and describes how some of these individuals fought against the negative influences of religion.

Chapter Nineteen: In Conclusion: The Need for a New Enlightenment
Hitchens argues that the human race no longer needs religion to the extent it has in the past. He says the time has come for science and reason to take a more prominent role in the life of individuals and larger cultures; that de-emphasizing religion will improve the quality of life of individuals, and assist the progress of civilization. It is in effect a rallying call to atheists to fight the theocratic encroachment on free society.

>>22769871
Look, I'm not saying that perchance fish evolved to reptilians evolved to monkeys over the course of billions and gorillions of years. All I'm saying is that the laws of the billions of years don't apply to the laws of the thousands of years, let alone everyday life.

>>22769882
I wasnt say you were wrong i was genuinely curious. So you state that what is wrong with evolution are the time lapses?

>>22769907
No, I reject the idea that social notions, human behaviour and genetic differences are a product of 'evolution', that 'evolution' and 'selection' has no application whatsoever in everyday life. I must also add something that I noticed while walking through the park and looking at puddles. It's as if, no matter how much artifical selection for traits was done on a beast, there's always an inextricable 'dog essence' on all of them that cannot be removed, no matter for how many generations they have been selecting for smallness.

>>22769924
I dont understand, fish became mokeys but monkeys didnt become humans?

>>22769935
No, monkeys might have become humans, but that question is irrelevant to how morals and social notions came to be. They are not the product of natural selection. This idea that only the most efficient traits, the ones that enable survival the most exactly is what is refuted empirically. How did for example the virtue of the warrior come to be through natural selection? Logically it would have disappeared because warriors have very high death rates. Millions of them died on the battlefield without leaving descendants. Their ideas have prevailed.

>>22769633
Well, you're not that great yourself, Mr. Hitchens: A review and fact-checking of god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything.

https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/xnt9gq/well_youre_not_that_great_yourself_mr_hitchens_a/

>>22769721
>Religion makes people act worse because it convinces them that a divine authority sanctions wicked actions
some
>It's common place in war for leaders to convince the rank and file that God is on their side (Nazi belt buckles were engraved with "Gott Mits Uns" meaning God is on our side)
that was more of a reference to its use in the German Empire than religion, especially since the higher nazi ranks were a pagan homossexual sex cult
>Also, genital mutilation is entirely pushed by religion, even today in first world countries this barbaric practice is shockingly commonly inflicted on babies.
1 Corinthians 7:19
>These religions are also mutually exclusive, if one is true all others are false, and in fact, if one sect of one religion is true it means all other sects are false in many cases
correct
>when in reality they are likely all false due to the psychological projection inherent in every religion, indicating they are entirely man made
incorrect
> Third, religion has historically prevented innovation and free thinking as a threat and challenge to the power base in that religion
largely incorrect, the Catholic church is responsible for creating the University as an institution and were historically one of the largest sponsors of scientific inquiry.

>>22769633
Read aquinas retard

>>22769947
Okay, I think I understand you know.

>most efficient traits
As far as i know, that is not how evolution works. Evolution means that the mixed adn of the parents with some random changes are the ones the child inherit, period. Now, some reproduce before they die and some die before reproduce and that is pretty much random dependens only on context. So, the ones that have certain traits survive, the others dont. And they pass their genes to their children. But they have thousands of genes and they pass all of them. So
>that question is irrelevant to how morals and social notions came to be
Well yes and no. They are in some cases accidental and in others fundamental

>>22769673
>quick
I'll do my best.
I engaged with material from other denominations or other Abrahamic religions, I realized that at a certain point all their arguments come to the same crucial point; which is just to have Faith. They basically say "yes there are things that don't seem to make the most sense, or things you might find upsetting (for me what I found upsetting was that a loving God would allow the cosmic tragedy that is eternal hell to exist at all) but remember, you just have to trust God. It will all make sense later."
But the problem is they all say that, so what it is that you are actually placing your faith in is not God, it's the organization of your particular religion, trusting that they alone can 'offer you God'.
I began a thought experiment from a Muslims perspective, at the time I was a believing Catholic. If my religion was true, and his was false, then the outcome I would want is for him is to convert to mine. What that would take from his perspective is, at some point, a renunciation of the virtue of faith, in favour of some kind of rational or aesthetic thought process to figure out which world religion is true, and once he's found it, then he would have to readopt the virtue of faith. The problem is is that for both religions this logical or emotional process is very immoral and leads to hell.
Imagine the Muslim is now a Catholic and lets say his faith is firm for a while, but then for some reason he has a problem with the Church, maybe a teaching, lets continue to use the example of eternal hell. A priest would do his best to give him the reasons why this is the teaching, but at a certain point would appeal to faith and say "Yes this is upsetting and maybe you think that a loving God would not allow an eternal hell to exist, but you have to have faith, and our faith says that God is loving, and that an eternal hell exists, so therefore you are in error, rely on faith and submit".
1/?

>>22770015
>Hitchens misattributes a quote to Thomas Aquinas (famous for his breadth of scholarship) of "I am a man of one book" as proof of his narrow-mindedness... When the real quote is "I fear the man of one book", and even that quote is highly suspect considering it first cropped up in the 17th century. Hitchens himself however seems to be the only source for his version of the quote, as far as I can tell... So where did he get it from? (p.63) 9

lol

>>22770041
Now read this carefully.
Why is it that previously when the individual chose to abandon faith, in favour of other forms thinking, it led him to the truth, but this time if he did it it would lead him away from it? I realized that the actual exact answer to the 'why' in the previous question from a Catholics perspective is simply; Because the Catholic faith is the one true faith. Ask a following 'why' and then we get the rational reasons that the historical institution of the Catholic Church is the real deal.
So I realized 1) that ultimately all our truth claims need to have rational reasons for, and 2) It's at the very least sometimes a good thing to abandon the virtue of faith (non universal virtue e.g. moral relativism)
So I decided to do that and suspend my faith and look at my faith honestly and see if I thought if it was true. I felt like I was risking hell to see if I could find out what might be true.
I can make a second post if anyone cares about that.. But for me this first part was the painful part. As I had been brought up very very Catholic and had always held it in my heart as this immovable rock. Something I KNEW was true and beautiful. I would always have questions about things I thought seemed wrong, and my friends and family would do the best to answer them rationally, but if they couldn't it always just came down to "oh well that's how it is, we all have faith here." And back then I did, but when I made the decision to suspend my faith and look at it simply I felt like I was putting a foot into hell. I was very very anxious and scared for a while because of how instilled the fear of hell was in me.
2/2

>>22770017
> So, the ones that have certain traits survive, the others dont. And they pass their genes to their children. But they have thousands of genes and they pass all of them. So
Ok, so traits can change sporadically, this isn't something new. But there's no evidence of a species changing into another species, even where artificial selection for traits has been done ad nauseum.
> Well yes and no. They are in some cases accidental and in others fundamental
Such as?

Hitchens sounds like a complete idiot

>>22769786
Christopher Hitchens Christcuck vs. Neckbeard shit flinging The Circumcision Debate

This isn't /his/?

>>22769953
>straw clutching this hard

>>22770066
The dubs gods agree

>>22769721
These arguments can be applied to just about anything humanity does, including atheism. Political ideologies, social movements, social customs, etc. Religion isn't special.

>>22769633
An edgy fedora-tipping book like this that tries to put God on trial would have never destroyed my faith. What decimated my religious devotion was the very Bible itself.

>>22769633
I prefer his brother.

>>22770085
Why? Because he soothes your death anxiety by pretending to believe in Skydaddy?

>>22769705
Because 90% of middle aged men have that look, regardless of religious or political affiliation but you want to use it as an "own" because you're a fucking faggot.

>>22770090
Because he attacks the religious myth of world war 2.

>>22770062
>no evidence of a species changing into another species
That is because species doesnt exist, they are an arbitrary categorization

>>22770076
Many such cases. Bart Ehrman deconverts people more than any nuatheist who hasn't even studied the Bible.

>>22770062
>Such as?
That is unknowable, reality is more complex than any computer or super intelligent being will ever be able to compute

>>22770097
That's just him being a contrarian twat. Sorry Pete, Dresden was justified.

>>22769633
You don't believe a word you said.

>>22770120
Eh?

>>22769700
He deserves all the credit and none of the blame

>>22770120
So what, the thread is a false flag?

>>22770100
>>22770108
Laughable, more proof that the theory of evolution is bullocks.

>>22769700
>God did not save the dead children because God
Yes
Dead children status: IGNORED

>>22769719
>world is cruel, if god good then why >:(
There's literally no satisfactory answer to this

>>22770058
I’m sorry that things turned out that way for you anon. I don’t think I’ve struggled with faith since college so there’s not much advice I can give, other than to keep your mind open and to keep reading more. The more I’ve read of great literature and philosophy, the stronger my confidence in the church seems to grow.

>>22770117
Okay lol, keep your dollar store devil stand in.

>>22770147
>>22770138
Yeah. But it's an effective way to get people commenting in the thread. I see it on /pol/ a lot.

>>22770235
Cope

>>22770242
God's throne does not sit empty.

>>22770058
When did you quit praying? This post seems like a larp but I’ll indulge. When you pray is God like Muhammad says or like Christ? Catholics do believe there is salvation only in the church but some are united to the church invisibly. Thus God sent His son so we may know how to create a filial bond with the father and become children by adoption thru the example of His son. Muhammad’s example is one of war, and he breaks the natural law and destroys what Jesus taught despite saying Jesus was the greatest prophet. Muhammad’s God and heaven are devised by a man with a 14 year old’s intellect. Catholicism has ascended, integrating the principled metaphysics of the Greeks so that YOU can find the truth from first principles up - seek and you will find. As for faith, the muslims faith is corrupt, say there are 10 tenants of Catholicism and 10 of Islam. In this example each tenant from Catholicism is true (know by natural law and what is divinely revealed) thus your faith is in keeping with the father. In Islam, perhaps 6/10 tenants are true, some like killing infidels, waging jihad, honour killings, polygamy etc destroy natural law. Thus a Muslim who rejects polygamy may still see the father in this life and the next, but a Muslim who has perfect “faith” in his religion has a corrupt faith. God gave us reason and that is how we interface with him, we have faith in our reason and experience, the Islamic reason is insufficient, read and you will see. Finally, it is ultimately a matter of God’s election. Hell exists because justice will be manifest in those souls who committed evil, thus hell is a good thing in the universal sense, though it be bad for any single individual who end up there

>>22769721
If these arguments are enough to kill your belief in god then you never believed much in the first place. Fortunately, I too once believed all of these things, but you can gain a deeper understanding of Christ than mainstream culture or Sunday school can give you. Read your Bible.

>>22770076
Lol, read Augustine who solves these differences. Don’t you think in genuine testimony things WOULDNT match up perfectly??

>>22770314
I don't see what edge Christianity has without the magic book. I didn't jump straight to atheism. I'm just a syncretic agnostic now.

>>22770096
You leave jimmy alone. He may be a retard with high WIS, but he's a based retard.

>>22770329
The edge, well I don’t really have the time to explain ten thousands hours worth of research, but just ask, what religion has saints? Which religion has (claimed) public miracles like Fatima with 50,000+ witnesses, which religion has millions of martyrs despite not being a religion of war? The Roman Catholic Church is the oldest institution in the world, surely that’s worthy of consideration. Jesus perfected philosophy and theology, look at the book of Matthew. The Roman Catholic culture - architecture art music is supreme. What did Peter know that made him was to be crucified upside down? In terms of philosophy, Aquinas dominates the best of Islam and proves it out and he integrates Aristotle in a way which destroys modernists like Hegel and Kant.

>>22770339
I don't even have a problem with the guy. I just wanted to show that this is not some kind of heathen curse from God. In fact the Bible is all about how superficialities are meaningless anyway. As a Christian I always thought Jesus was a short 5/10 guy nobody would look twice at, not the handsome gigachad the media portrays him as.

>>22770209
Creation then sin.
There is no perfection here.
Use your time wisely.

>>22770347
Fatima is ridiculous dude. Give me a break. You really think the sun danced in the sky not even 1000 years ago and nobody wrote it down other than catholics? People die for all kinds of stupidity. IRA members hunger striked themselves into an early grave protesting in prison. Survivorship bias. Begging the question (greco-roman art and architecture is also superlative, so we can more easily chock artistic achievement up to whiteness or even roman culture than Christianity). Peter's crucifixion is Catholic apocrypha. Also who said anything about Islam? Abrahamism as a whole is just a lot less sophisticated than eastern religion (which doesn't mean its false albeit).

>>22770398
Well, Fatima’s third secret predicted that the chastisement of the world will begin with Russia and Ukraine prior to 2016 - Martin Malachai public interview. So I guess if you don’t want to believe the testimony of thousands of reporters atheist and theist, and none of the prophetic elements, then just wait 10 years, you’ll live (maybe) to see for yourself.

>>22770351
Look man, I just want to know why he was so fat.

>>22770410
Its already been 7 years since 2016 tho. Or is this chastisement of the world different from the tribulation. If it is, where does it orginate as a doctrine?

>>22770415
Who Gervais or Akin?

>>22769633
anon this book is just a basic criticism of religion that has been around for like 100 years

>>22769721
I'm not even religious, but these are some weak arguments.

>>22770421
The shit was supposed to go down in 2017 (I think previous anon is off by a year) when christoids wanted to make this case then. I‘m sure there‘s a reason it didn‘t but is totally going to though.

>>22770421
This chastisement is the same as the tribulation, but the nature of the timing - 7 years - from the book of Daniel is not a catholic belief insomuch as it is Protestant. The Roman Catholic catechism says nothing of 7 years. The tribulation is spoken of at Fatima, la salette, Akita, and revelation, as well as in the bible by Jesus and by John. Frankly the specifics of what the tribulation is or is not is not a defining matter of the faith, thus I won’t go into it more. All I’m saying is that when I study Fatima I see thousands of testimonies from all walks of life, many well proven prophecies, and one which is unfolding first in 2014 (predicted with immense accuracy) and then more properly in 2022. One more thing, the language about Moscow and Kiev, it is precise, Martin Malachai said that the third secret of Fatima is intimately linked with the fate of Moscow and Kiev, and that the entire “world system” depends on it.

>>22770398
Fatima is supposed to have happened in the early 1900s. No one noticed but those who were there at the grotto.

>>22770421
You don’t believe in Fatima, what of the priests of Hiroshima. They were at the city center where the nuclear bomb went off, everything around them flattened, they were the only survivors in the area. The glass from the priest house was in tact yet everything else was levelled. Hundreds of scientists studied this and said it was physically impossible, yet all 8 Jesuit priests walked out unharmed. When asked they said they were living the message of Fatima.

>>22770528
I just looked it up and they were 1300m from blast center but there were lots of other (as much as lots is for surviving a nuke) people within that radius or closer that also survived. And one of the priests himself said he "wouldn't call it a miracle exactly, but that we were under some sort of special protection." As to imply that it wasn't unexplainable just unlikely, like the other people that survived. One lady was in a car 750m away.

>>22770588
Oh, your research has suggested it was not a miracle, then it is resolved.

>>22769721
Okay, but that's just bad people perverting the notion of God tho.

>>22770597
Well what would you say about the lady 750m away? Were they all miracles or is it just that sometimes people can survive within that blast radius. Like the definition of a miracle is the suspension of natural law, but if something just happens often enough why not just say it is a normal event. Btw your research is just as loose as mine, you just read some catholic articles claiming it was a miracle and I read some Wikipedia pages.

>>22770617
Sorry it was 10 people in a streetcar 750m away.

>>22769882
Billions of years consists of millions of thousands of years.

>>22770616
Why did God say so much crazy shit when he knew bad people would pervert those words?

Memes aside, having my religion debunked actually did ruin my life. I never really recovered from it.

>>22770692

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suq0ayB0b8I

>>22770677
Freedom of choice. Stop being weird and evil.

>>22770703
I don't get it.

>>22770617
When it comes to Hiroshima it is a non sequitur. Researchers measured what the psi was at that location and found it was impossible for those priests to live. As for other people near by? I’d have to read the research done on them, as far as I’ve heard there was no studies done on anyone else. At the end of the day, there is significant evidence of miracles as fatima is arguably the superior miracle due to the solar element. Now, one who does not believe in miracles will not believe any of it.

>>22770757
To expand on this, no I don’t know about the other people around. I suppose the argument is that if something physically impossible happened more frequently then really we are just missing a physical phenomena in nuclear science which would explain such a case as the priests and the others who lived, although frankly I question whether those in the street cart were virtually untouched. Now, Fatima is more important because there is absolutely no physical explanation for what happened. Either you believe it is mass hysteria or a miracle from God, there’s no in between or dancing around the point. Fatima was one of the top 10 miracles of the last 6000 years.

>>22770757
>>22770773
Yeah I'm not opposed to miracles, I do believe in paranormal stuff so I would be disingenuous to now be a total materialist. I'll look into these a bit more sometime.

>>22769721
You spent so much time just to illustrate how young (certainly not retarded) you are. Congratulations and sorry that happened.

>>22770703
I don't see what this has to do with Anon's plight.

>>22769638
fpbp

>>22769791
>>22769823
Unfortunately, this is just cope. Sex is part of any normal person's life and to have it diminished by having a mutilated sexual organ is horrible, but if you need to downplay it in order to deal with it having been inflicted on you as a baby, I understand.

>>22770075
Religion makes people willingly flee from the truth to cling to a delusion.

>>22770793
I'm willing to bet it took longer for you to read that post than it took for me to type it.

>>22770442
That was a weak post. Explain why you think that, otherwise you've literally contributed less than nothing to the thread.

>>22770300
>(You)

>>22770834
(schizophrenic)

>>22769638
>uninstall
busted! You broke the rule, redditor! Commit seppuku immediately!

>>22769633
Realizing the founders of christianity were jewish has destroyed any chance of me going back.
The same people who tell me that they lied about a certain event in the 30s/40s, tell me that questioning the origins of christianity makes me a jew.

>>22770872
Who? Dostoevsky?

>>22769721
you needed a book to tell you this?
sometimes I underestimate just how sheltered the yank chud life must be.

>>22770956
(You)

>>22770961
Hitchens was most popular in the USA where fundamentalist Christianity still has a strong hold over many communities

>>22770460
>the third secret of Fatima is intimately linked with the fate of Moscow and Kiev, and that the entire “world system” depends on it.
truly it was a neon genesis evangelion

>>22770872
Ironic from an anon who has to search the archives and post a screenshot every time he sees a jpg that triggers him

>>22770963
But I don't even have that image saved to my computer and I can even understand where he is coming from, albeit that is a deeply paranoid schizophrenic place.

>>22769721
The author is 14 and OP is 13
Lol

>>22770977
(schizophrenic seethe)

>>22770981
Yes, you are seething, aren't you?

>>22770984
(schizophrenic seething and resorting to n-no u)

>>22770995
Ah yes, because you've been incredibly original so far lol

>>22769700
>>22769661
you have no idea how completely wrong you are. when the day comes you will feel the weight of God and you will wish you were burning in hell rather than face the embarrassment and humility before him

>>22769721
It's like you are describing humanism, it's uncanny.

>>22769633
I was always to ethnic for that gay shit

>>22769633
He was an alcoholic and a sex pest. Most internet atheists take away God and put man on a pedestal instead.

>>22769776
It’s because women do it to us. How would they like it if we raped them?

>>22770102
That’s too bad considering his position.

>>22769786
It’s literally part of everyone’s existence why it’s not a human right (aside from the Netherlands) is beyond me

>>22769721
This can't be serious, i refuse to believe someone can sell a book with this level of intelligence

>>22769633
Are you retarded?

>>22771214
just a dumb bait post for gentlesirs

god is not great because he didn't make my cat immortal

>>22771226
>tfw I also hate god for letting my cat die

>>22769721
>Nazi belt buckles were engraved with "Gott Mits Uns" meaning God is on our side
It means "God With Us", and it's short for "(May) God (be) with us" from the German "(Möge) Gott mit uns (sein).", not an assertive claim on God's stance on the war. It's pretty common in war for people to hope being on the right side, doing the right thing, and consequently, having God support them.

>>22769633
Never read it but man, the world is such a sad, scary and terrible place. I feel sick thinking about it right now. Everything is power struggle and I’m so tired of struggling. Nothing is real man, how could it be?

>>22771339
Decrease your screentime and exposure to world news. The 24/7 news cycle is devastating to mental well being.
The world is still beautiful in many ways and you can't carry the weight of the world on your shoulders

>>22771226
She was taken too soon

What's the point of these books, they never seem like their aim is to convert religious people to atheism, but to tell atheists what they already believe.

>>22771483
they helped me tackle questions about my faith as a teenager when everybody in my family was devout. it wasn't like I could talk about it at school. I moved onto philosophy soon after. I'm grateful for them.

>>22771080
Are you referring to this God?

>>22770398
>a lot less sophisticated than eastern religion
dude snake incest lmao

>Timestops
>Casts instant death that bypasses all defenses and immunities

>>22771329
Those are quite some Herculean semantic gymnastics you've performed there, but the actual phrase is "Gott Mit Uns Und Wir Mit Ihm" which means "God is with us and we are with him". Nice try though.

>>22771552
It was "(Möge) Gott mit uns (sein) und wir mit ihm!", so "(May) God (be) with us and we with him."
There is no "is" or "are" in the original German sentence, so why do you add it and claim it says "God IS with us and we ARE with him"?

If we translated it word-for-word, it's
>Gott mit uns und wir mit ihm!
>God with us and we with him!
>Nice try though.
It's funny how you can be this smug while clearly having no clue about colloquial German and common idioms.

>>22770616
If I read, say, Matthew 10:37
>He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
or mayhaps Matthew 19:21
>Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
then I decide that no, I'm not doing this, hence the Holy Bible is the sacred word of God, but the parts I do not like are just metaphors.
Now tell me, if I'm going to be the arbiter of what is acceptable or not in the Bible, then why do I need it?

>>22769650
who are you trying to convince?

>Hitchens

>>22769789
Holy shit!

>>22771339
Evil is great in this world. The same evil is greater still in a man who does nothing to get in its way. Believe in Christ and you will be saved. Act and you may lead others to that same salvation.