/lit/ - Literature

>>22711213
nationalist experiments

Impossible because the whole propaganda is that socialism is somehow a polar entity to capitalism.

>>22711213
The problem is that despite communist atrocities the ideology of communism is nevertheless humanitarian and altruistic. It’s about freeing man from unjust constraints, at bottom. It’s a vision of society (justified or unjustified) which sees every human being as fulfilling their inherent potential and not being held back unfairly.

Fascism, on the other hand, is about pure exploitation. They see humanity as basically cattle who need to be bred into a more perfect form, not for any real humanitarian purpose, but just because they like the egomaniacal feeling of being “superior”. So the fascist will happily mistreat, enslave, even kill all these “inferior races” in this sort of seething resentful frenzy. Whereas the communist will work for their liberation and dignity.

I’m not saying this is how it always plays out in practical life, but that’s the difference in ideology that makes fascism so repugnant and communism not.

>>22711213
>Anarchists
>Authoritarian personality
I don't see how wanting to abolish authoritarianism makes you an authoritarian

leftists are intentionally intensely dishonest so they pretend not to

Idk i read actual books. not some random /pol/ trash and ended up spewing brainless thought as always
i'm not sure if ur trying to push ur trashy le right wng shit but you fags really succeed in convincing me that life is nihilist tho. bery based

>>22711232
>t. hasn't ever met an anarchist given a sliver of power

>>22711234
>"I read books"
>Has the vocabulary of a retard
The objection against the Authoritarian Personality is sound, and i question whether Adorno himself even truly believed most of what he wrote in it, rather than just writing convenient anglo-saxon truisms because he (rightfully) had to get a refugee visa to flee Nazi Germany.

>>22711213
well yes. psychology is basically the abstract subject.

>>22711213
>The problem is that despite communist atrocities the ideology of communism is nevertheless humanitarian and altruistic.

>>22711280
you misquoted
>>22711231

>>22711231
I'd say that communism's claim to be altruistic actually makes it much worse, because it prevents it from ever truly questioning whether it has taken the right course. It's very similar to Christianity in this way, in that it is willing to commit the most horrible atrocities under the guise of helping people.

Ipset pointed this out to Adorno.

>>22711213
Yes, Lasch talks about it True and Only Heaven. And Adorno called USSR and 60's leftists fascists.

>>22711213
>Did it never really occur to Adorno
It did. He just called USSR fascist. What now?

>>22711213
Adorno didn't exclude that. He was as critical of Soviet Marxism as he was of American capitalism. He'd probably tell you tankies have an authoritarian personality.

>>22711231
>the ideology of communism is nevertheless humanitarian and altruistic
Maybe, but online commies these days are 90% Stalinists and tankies and if you talk to them you realize they are more obsessed with authoriatian structures and imagery (flags, army parades, marches, weapons, symbolism) rather than any real interest in communist philosophy or anything. Anarchists also have an authoritarian streak, albeit one that manifests in group think rather than fascination with statist imagery.

>>22711353
Yeah, this is a good point actually. It's something Carl Schmitt and Fanon picked up on. The most virulent forms of barbarism have been waged in the name of humanism. Africans are not fully human, or have failed to abide by the dictates of bourgeois humanism, so we can brutally contain these feral niggers because they are savage. If you claim to fight in the name of humanty, then anyone who's against you is by extension anti-human and therefore anything can be done to stop them. We can see this play out in Gaza right now where Hamas war crimes are used to portray Gazans as "human animals" (they failed to reach the level of Western humanism) and so killing 10,000 people is perfectly justified to contain the savages. It's why liberals end up becoming the most violently intolerant people. Since Communism has the same secular-humanist foundations, it has exactly the same problem.

Do /pol/tards have an authoritarian personality? I mean, 4chan is a pretty anarchic website yet /pol/lacks are oddly conservative and authoritarian. On the one hand, they oppose things like the trans issue, want homogenous societies, like overbearing authoritarian leaders, but on the other hand they always complain about how social media is controlled, how reddit mods are too powerful, how liberals or leftists are censoring everything, and they are huge consumers of porn and odd fetish genres while leaning into Orthodoxy or Catholicism in ways that betray a general disinterest for religion. I mean, aren't the libtards everything /pol/ should like? They are authoritarian, controlling, they police the truth and they support autocratic politicians like Biden.

Is the real secret that the rightoids and the liberals are actually the same but differ in their language and symbolic issues?

>>22711231
Ideology < realpolitik

>>22711231
Fascism has nothing to do with what you described

Adorno was a based Chad who saw through the lies of fascism. He knew that authoritarianism is a latent tendency in all forms of human organization, but he believed that it is particularly dangerous in fascism because it is combined with a cult of personality and a belief in the superiority of one race or nation.

So, if you're a redpilled alpha male who's tired of being oppressed by the fascist state, then Adorno is your man. Just be warned: his work is not for the faint of heart. It requires intelligence, courage, and a willingness to question everything you thought you knew.

>>22711552
I don't like your vocabulary, anon

>>22711433
>Do /pol/tards have an authoritarian personality
It's mostly just blind contrarianism

>>22711433
/pol/tards aren’t really an actual viable political group. They are mostly complainers and as such will complain about everything they don’t like even if it makes them hypocritical. The reality is that they don’t have a feasible, unified belief system. They are basically accelerationists who want the world to burn. Look at how they get off to ragebait

>>22711231
lmao

>>22711213
He did. He was an Anti-Soviet Western Marxist, part of the Frankfurt School. Cultural Marxism was used as a weapon against the Warsaw Pact just as much as it was used against Western populations.

>>22711232
"Every anarchist is a baffled dictator." -Duce

>>22711433
>Is the real secret that the rightoids and the liberals are actually the same but differ in their language and symbolic issues?
No? I know you guys like to butcher history of ideas but it's really useless to try and do this whole "rightists are the same as the libruls!"
Believe it or not, but dialectical materialism is not some secret key to the universe. Also, what do you exactly mean by "rightoid"? Because judging by how you people throw the term fascist around, it probably has no honest thought behind it. There is no ultimate right wing movement founded upon one singular dogma schelling point like leftism.
One right winger might (correctly) say that human liberty is just something men use to justify their large desires and that humans are much better off when they are treated with some clear good purpose in mind, like how Aristotle thought the purpose of the law was to cultivate good human capital. Another might say that liberty is the ultimate good and (correctly) that collectivist ideologies stifle it.

>>22711413
He's a retard who's never read Gentile and pretends to be an expert on fascism. Honestly, it's hard not to think that there is some deep seated masculinity issue behind overusing the word fascism.

>>22711232
Anarchism on the individual is literal power mania. It is impossible for them to let anyone have any power over them and not to feel extreme discomfort. Of course, giving up freedom is a sign of trust, abd anarchists, as anyone who's ever met one will know, are SUPER paranoid

>>22711233
Is that why fascist insects are obsessed with concepts such as "optics"?

>>22711231
>fascist: "I'm going to torture you to death!"
>tortures you to death
Communist: "I'm going to make you feel so good you won't believe it!"
>tortures you to death

>>22711231
You are literally her.

>>22713610
>whatabout-
The main difference here is that these fascists or "fascists" actually bother to learn about their opponent's ideology and, much to their dismay, argue from their view. Leftists just redefine words and call it a day.

>>22713641
Honestly, taking some leftist as an "expert on Fascism" is like taking Hitler as an expert on Marxism.

>>22711232
>you violated the voluntary community, now the peoples militia (police) will dragg you to a popular communal ethical judgment (tribunal) and take a popular position on this (lynching)

>>22713641
Not true desu. I know tons of socialists who take authors like C. Schmitt, Heidegger, Spengler etc very serious.

ARE WE BACK? IS 4CHAN ONLINE AGAIN?

>>22714587
Unfortunately, yes.

>>22711231
you might actually be mentally ill, man. : /

>>22711213
I'd say hating jazz music is authoritarian and actually proto-fascist.

>>22711231
fascism is communism you gorilla

Fascism is a cheap knock-off of Stalinism. Obviously any ideology will be co-opted by anal autoritanians, since they're the only ones who can be bothered to play the power games. Read Reich.
It's like everyone thinking we live in glorious Democracy because you can vote for hucksters and frauds, as if some narcissist is going to represent your best interest
Politics is the antithesis of life. Read Stirner and be free.

>>22713063
>blind contrarianism
yeah, its somewhat the opposite of an authoritarian personality completely driven by repressed aggresion and rage

>>22715213
really bad bait desu

>>22715671
Really? If you understand an authoritarian personality as a pathology then maybe they'd count. /pol/tards might seem contrarian and schizophrenic but they also have this longing for powerful paternal authority figure. They meet Adorno's criteria: they have an unhealthy obsession with modern sex, they are extremely cynical and destructive, see everything through a prism of authority and domination and express extreme hatred of people they deem culturally foreign. I'd say /pol/ is repressed masochism at it's extreme. They want somebody to dominante them.

>>22713585
If you look at modern day liberals and many ideas floating around the far right you notice a strange pattern. The idea that blacks are genetically inferior in intelligence was promoted by liberals in the 90s. When Herrnstein and Charles Murray published the Bell Curve, they received glowing reviews in the New York Times. The Times frequently attacks Trumpers and the alt right as racist islamophobes, but they made a fraudulent podcast series depicting Muslims as bloodthirsty killers which all turned out to be fake and it's still up on their site even after it was exposed. Some of the most lurid anti-Arab anti-Muslim hate was being pushed by Jewish liberals in mainstream American publications in the 90s. The idea men are weak and masculinity is under threat was pushed by guys like Philip Zombardo. The fear of immigrants and cultural assimilation, again something that liberals initially promoted heavily. Even Nick Land used to be a far leftist.

Sure, this isn't saying the radical right's views are derived from liberalism, some like Curtis Yarvin are anti-liberal, but many of the key issues of the right: fear of immigrants, belief civilization is on the brink of collapse, fear of Muslims, the idea men are becoming effeminite and weak etc. all of these ideas came from liberals initially. There are cases of liberal institutions funding and financing the far right.

>>22711213
>Did it never really occur to Adorno or many of the leftists that cite him that everything they attribute to fascism can also easily be attributed to communists and anarchists?
That was the whole point you retard

>>22711231

>>22711280
I would rather starve to death under a communist state than live a subpar life under a nazi regime that considers me subhuman or a race traitor.

>>22715213
>as if some narcissist is going to represent your best interest
they would if the average voter was cynical and put actual pressure on their elected representative.

>>22713089
>They are basically accelerationists who want the world to burn.
if they were they'd put their money where their mouths are and become antinatalists.
but that's too "lefty" for /pol/ I guess.

>>22717351
no you wouldn't but you can lie about it if it makes you feel better queen

>>22717428
I'd rather not play with time bombs.

>>22711213
Does it ever occur to authoritarians in general that what they lack is the sense of humor?

>>22714570
I'm sure all of them LOVE the taste of my hairy balls, too.

>>22717440
>The people are incompetent and retarded
>We should let them vote!
>Lol!
>Lmao, even!
Am I doing it right

>>22717055
Happy 2019.

>>22717470
No.

>>22711213
The hypocrisy in this regard is very easily explained. The whole point is, they are projecting their own evil fantasies on the Christians, and it is in fact, and has been them who are introducing and trying to implement these very same things. Any other supposed target for criticism is just a stand-in for the campaign against the biblical worldview, which is the real target of these people because they hate it. They despise the truth and refuse to accept it.

If they did accept the truth, they wouldn't be what they choose to call themselves.

The strategy for these people is just to put out enough propaganda, and pump out so much propaganda, so that they will have the truth get drowned out by a so-called firehose of falsehoods. They create problems intentionally, with things like false flag attacks and agents provocateur.

Any other dichotomy that they present to you apart from their persistent attack on Christianity is just a puppet-show meant to distract us. The supposed conflict they present to us, whatever the form it takes, is a hegelian dialectic, where both their thesis, and their antithesis both have the presuppositions they want already built in, and they as the theater-masters proceed to amplify it, that is, their own perverse creations and twisted ideologies, left and right, endlessly in the media. However the Bible is the one truth they can't stop which exposes these people and what they are doing. Amen.

>>22711433
>Do /pol/tards have an authoritarian personality? I mean, 4chan is a pretty anarchic website yet /pol/lacks are oddly conservative and authoritarian ... I mean, aren't the libtards everything /pol/ should like? They are authoritarian, controlling, they police the truth and they support autocratic politicians like Biden.
Adorno was fascinated by the rebellious tendencies of so-called "pseudoconservatives" who he thought were particularly common on the American right. He saw an authentic conservative as one who identifies with the power and structures of authority and defends them accordingly, while the pseudoconservative suffers from a failed identification with those structures and would destroy them in order to save them. If you look at it from a somewhat Marxist POV, then the U.S. for example would probably look like a fundamentally unfree bourgeois dictatorship that's run by corporate executives (or rather, "freedom" is defined as their freedom), and representative democracy functions as a stabilizing institution, and then the Trump movement is rebelling against that, but with an ideology that the "true" leadership of America has been usurped, and the solution is in appointing a CEO to run America like a business... even though it already is. But that removes the buffers and destabilizes the country, which they're trying to "save."

Or in Germany, putting the military in charge, even though the Prussian officer corps was already heavily involved in politics, or traditionally, "doing politics" in Germany was essentially "being in the military" and they were one and the same. Fascism back then contained a rebellion against bourgeois parliamentarism where politicians talk everything to death when we need men of action!

I think he also identified this with authoritarian parenting and an inability to criticize the father. I don't know if I believe that part and I don't know enough about Freudian stuff like that. But it's interesting and helped me think about certain currents on the right in a different way, and it makes sense. The right can be rebellious, noisy, anarchic and destructive. Fascists can be into spectacle and riots and stuff like that:
https://youtu.be/G7EtOYAIXto

>>22716840
>If you look at modern day liberals and many ideas floating around the far right you notice a strange pattern.
Ideas move around a lot. I heard a description of ideas once as like streams of water. They're constantly moving from left to right, and right to left, and from the center outwards and from the fringes to the center, and in all sorts of other ways.

To use another example, think about the postmodernists who were reading Heidegger (who was a Nazi) and Nietzsche. Or Foucault who supported the Islamic Revolution in Iran because of its anti-modernism and that it challenged the Enlightenment which the postmodernists were all about overturning. But he wouldn't have lasted three days there during the revolution because he was gay. There was also Paul de Man who was a notable postmodern literary critic who caused a scandal when it turned out he had been a fascist. I'm not even saying any of these people are bad or they're unintelligent, it's to just illustrate a point.

As far as the authoritarian personalities of so-called tankies, there are some who will say they reject postmodernism, or they see the modern left as being enthralled by this stuff, but to me they often come across as postmodernists to me in their thinking. The ones who read Dugin or defend the Islamic Republic of Iran, they might agree with Foucault. And the postmodern "liberal" leftists to them are the usurpers of "true" communism, and their pseudo-rebellion is directed against them. I've seen some complaining in that direction.

>>22716840
>Really? If you understand an authoritarian personality as a pathology then maybe they'd count. /pol/tards might seem contrarian and schizophrenic but they also have this longing for powerful paternal authority figure. They meet Adorno's criteria: they have an unhealthy obsession with modern sex, they are extremely cynical and destructive, see everything through a prism of authority and domination and express extreme hatred of people they deem culturally foreign. I'd say /pol/ is repressed masochism at it's extreme. They want somebody to dominante them.
The term you are searching for is ego weakness

>>22711232
In Spain, they literally had forced labor camps and everything was kept in order thanks to the caudillismo of Durruti.
One thing is theory and another is reality, and nothing has proven to be more authoritarian and respectful of the natural hierarchy than anarchism in practice.

>>22719928
A contest to out-autism each other is being pro-active about challenges, ego weakness may not the term.

>>22711213
It probably did but they didnt care
Theres psychological research papers out now on theit ilk being just as authoritarian while also being more gay so it's funny
But ultimately changes nothing
Nothing ever happens