/lit/ - Literature

Anglicanism desu

I've been baptised as World Orthodox/New Calendarist, have been an apostate for most of my life and recently tried to return to the faith, I am now considering being chrismated in a True Orthodox/Old Calendarist church.

>>22635808
Nizari Ismailism

PRAISE AGA KHAN and PAY DASOND.

>>22635976
he considered the ismaili aga khan to be part of the counter-initiation.

Catholicism

>>22635983
yeah, he was dumb

>>22636094
Lol no.

>>22635808
Why would I want to initiate into some moralfag tradition? You go to anyone of these places and all you see is fake hypocrites and NPC drones. Both of which can’t question the little order they were born into. People who flock to it later in life might be even worse, desperate to fit in somewhere and they know it’s the easiest route. Extremely pathetic.

>>22635808
I would like to receive initiations into both Tibetan Buddhism and Shaiva/Shakti Tantra.

>>22635942
You won't regret it, brother.

http://www.hotca.org/pdf/TrueOrthodoxOppositionEcumenism.pdf

>>22635808
Not Islam

Jewish.

>>22635808
Didn't Guenon say the only tradition a westerner could enter is the Sufi's?

>>22635808
Marxism

>>22636844
No, that’s a myth and its contradicted by Guenon’s own actions (he was initiated into Taoism)

>>22635808
bruh I will not be an anglican
and the nearest orthodox church is a million km away, I will make pilgrimage

"Initiation" is literal hypnosis done by cult leader gurus or stellar demons.

>>22635942
what's the difference?

I'm not getting initiated in any tradition. I am creating tradition.

>>22637658
based futurist

Haruhism

>>22636726
Dumb zigger, orthodog priests are corrupt as fuck

>>22637620
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Old_Calendarists

>>22635808
None. I want to keep my sense of self and discernment, not dissolve into an ocean of intellectually fueled, group-hugging pleasure. The sentiment of wanting to belong and represent has been used to create demographics and define cultures throughout history. You are a moron if you fall for any of it. That doesn't mean those traditions don't contain truths or that those traditions should never be studied.

>>22635808
I realize that this now a pointless endeavor short of becoming a monk in the East or maybe Athos, which of course won't happen for 99.9% of people.
Spirituality has degraded so much since Guenon, especially Vatican II. In East & West he speaks of the degeneration of the Church , and that was before the second Vatican council, and of course the East has degenerated much since also, far more than Guenon expected (Islam eschatology too speaks of this for their own religion).

Basically everything is fucked, so I am unironically Protestant against his best wishes, I believe a careful approach in this age is much more fruitful than Traditions that have become counter-Traditions, of which there is no better example of this than the Church today.
But I suppose it still is a latent tradition as Guenon calls it, so I am all eyes & ears for some sort of pre Vatican II revival within the next generation of popes.

I think people here get too pigeon-holed into the importance of Tradition for what is ultimately one author's opinion. Other authors like Coomarswamy or Evola weren't so hardline.

>>22639852
>Basically everything is fucked
Why would you assume this?

>UMMMM WHEN A MCDONALDS IS BUILT IN ASIA IT SENDS OUT A INVISIBLE RAY FOR DOZENS OF MILES THAT INVISIBLY ERASES PEOPLES SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING

>>22639852
You shouldn't join a tradition just because it's well preserved or interesting, you should join that which has an actual coherent worldview and will make you believe in it.

>>22640680
that perspective is very materialist

>>22640689
how? so we should pick traditions randomly? why even pick a tradition and not be a modernist philosopher or something?

Burn down the Erdtree, the way is barred, the traditions do not empower, and we need people to get empowered.

>>22640572
People are turning their backs on spirituality and no one has attained the level of empowerment needed to present the truth in a way that catches the attention of the present era.

>>22640707
>and we need people to get empowered.
Empowered to do what exactly?

>>22640694
Philosophy is lighter fluid next to the RP-1 of spirituality. But I wouldn't pick a tradition, contrary to what Guenon said: if you're a blind man touching an elephant (and you are) you are never going to understand the elephant if you spend your precious human life touching just its tusk, for example. You have to touch the elephant all over instead.

>>22640735
To reveal the truth. You don't understand spirituality if you don't understand why al-Hallaj ran down the street screaming 'I AM THE TRUTH!'

There aren't any open to the public that can offer actual initiation, you have to go a certain extent on your own and find them. Too bad most fans of Guénon take his word as gospel and won't try to learn anything about initiation in practice. He's good for theory. Also, converting to Islam because you read Guénon is the gayest pussy thing you could do. It screams instability and lack of will/direction. Guénon didn't even want people to do that, he did it under very special circumstances. Did you fall for Muslim internet/discord grooming?

>>22635808
cradle Orthodox.
never wavered like Westoids grasping at shadows for meaning and substance.

>>22637604
Awakening is the opposite of hypnosis. You are coming out of a state of hypnosis.

>>22640744
This implies that the way to know the truth is to spend your time to think as much as possible about everything seemingly meaningful you can think about, maybe even experience but if that will make you too absorbed into a certain experience (spiritual or not), it will be counterproductive to your task. In fact, your task has no goal since you don't even know what you're looking for.

>>22640829
beaware tl not jump from a state of hypnosis into another one

>>22640733
> People are turning their backs on spirituality
The masses have never been known for their intelligence or good judgement.

>and no one has attained the level of empowerment needed to present the truth in a way that catches the attention of the present era.
So? There is no need for the attention of the entire era to be caught, all that’s needed is for a tradition to initiate/instruct the next generation of people who are both qualified for an interested in the teaching, and this is exactly what continues all around the world in various religious centers of one faith or another and their esoteric etc orders.

Guénon's Traditionalism = based
Perennialism = cringe

>>22640902
Yeah, some spiritual traditions call it the journey without end and really try to ram in your head the notion that there is no goal, only the way. The Quran says that God's words will never run out. The realization that there is no goal other than the exploration of the truth, of the Infinite, is an important realization.

>>22640931
I believe in Satya Yuga, and Guenon speculated on there being a powerful showing of the spirit sometime soon. At some point, a world historical spiritual event must occur.

>>22635808
Esoteric shitposticism

>>22639852
>Other authors like Coomarswamy or Evola weren't so hardline.

I think Evola had extremely pessimistic views of initiation in modern world.

This Evola quote is from "Ride the Tiger"
>Since the West truly finds itself today ίη the soulless, collectivistic, and materialistic phase corresponding to the closing οf a cycle οf civilization there can be ηο doubt that the great majority οί facts interpreted as the prelude to a new spirituality simply belong to this "second religiosity." They represent something promiscuous, fragmented, and subintellectual;

>They resemble the fluorescence that appears when corpses decompose. Thus the currents ίη question should not be seen as counteracting our present twilight civilization, but as its counterpart, and ίί they take hold, they might even be the prelude to a more acute phase οί regression and dissolution. This is so particularly when it is not merely a matter οf states οf mind and theories, but when a morbid interest ίn the sensational andthe occult is accompanied by practicing evocations and opening υρ the underground strata οί the human psyche-as happens not infrequently ίη spiritualism and even ίη psychoanalysis. Here one may well speak, with Guenon, οί "fissures ίη the Great Wall," dangerous faults ίη that protecting barrier that, despite everything, protects every normal and sound-minded person ίη ordinary lίfe from the action οί genuine dark forces that are hidden behind the faςade οί the sense-world and beneath the threshold οί sound and conscious human thoughts. From this point οί view, neospiritualism appears even more dangerous than materialism or positivism, whose primitivity and intellectual myopia at least serve to reinforce that "wall" which, while limiting, also protects.

>Ιη another respect, nothing is more indicative οί the level οί this neospiritualism than the human material οί the majority οί those who cultivate it. While the ancient sciences had the prerogative οί a superior humanity drawn from the royal and priestly castes, today's new antimaterialist gospel is bandied about by mediums, popular "maguses," dowsers, spiritists, Anthroposophists, newspaper astrologers and seers, Theosophists, "healers," popularizers οί an Americanized yoga, and so forth, accompanied by a few exalted mystics and extemporizing prophets. Mystification and superstition are constantly mingled ίη neospiritualism,

New Age Revival, reforms and other "revivals" and spiritualism according to Evola is especially the "false light" which Evola tells of:
>"They resemble the fluorescence that appears when corpses decompose"

Lee Penn's book False Dawn is also a good perennialist/traditionalist exploration on the subject.

>>22641119
Evola writes more on initiation in intro to magic 3. By magic he means a kind of initiation. If you want genuine initiation and spiritual realization I think you have to go on your own for a long time.

>>22641161
Evola was mostly about transcendence, by any means possible. He was interested in Tantra (for example, read Evola's book Yoga of Power) and even Buddhism, but only the transcendental parts of the doctrine.

The Lower Astral Light of Theosophy or their Mathamas is associated with the lower shells, the "magic" used by ventriloquist, necromancers; the special “fire” of black magic whence Obi, Obeah are derived from. These are the Qliphoth.

But the higher is that of Azoth and concerns the Great Work and they are above the Supernals and associated with the Supernal Triad that is the Arcanum Arcanorum

Guénon writes in Reign of Quantity:
>There are indeed people who, by working more consciously and with a more extensive knowledge (and this does not mean knowledge of a higher order) might be able to make use of these same forces for quite different ends, unbeknown to the 'shamans' or those whose work is similar, for they act as nothing more than mere instruments for accumulating the forces in question at pre-determined points. It is known that there are in the world a certain number of 'repositories' of influences, the distribution of which is certainly no matter of chance, serving only too well the designs of the 'powers' responsible for the whole modern deviation; but that demands some further explanations, for it may seem surprising at first sight that the remains of what was once an authentic tradition should lend themselves to a 'subversion' of this kind.

Aleister Crowley describes the method mentioned by Guénon in the above quote:
>It is said by certain Initiates that to obtain Spiritual gifts, and to aid Nature, the Sacrament should be as it were a Nuptial of the Folk of Earth; but that Magick is of the Demon, and that by a certain Perversion of the Office, may be created Elementals fit to perform the Will of the Magician.
-De Arte Magica

>>22640988
I've seen many say this. What is the difference ?

Who the fuck is Guenon, he sounds like a cringe faggot

>>22641181
Guenon’s doesn’t say every religion/sect are valid, just that many happen to br valid while other others have been subverted or turn into hollow pseudo-tradition or were a fake psyop/grift from the beginning.

>>22641229
Guenon is the coolest motherfucker to have ever walked on this planet

>>22641235
Stopped reading 5 sentences into his wikipedia page, he already sounds cringe as fuck.

>>22641181
Guénon is esoteric and wrote masterfully on virtually every esoteric Tradition and how they reveal transcendent reality. He is extremely principled and astute. Modern Perennialists were influenced by him but are passive and wishy-washy hippies who stand for little. They paint and write poetry and don't uphold aristocratic (in the etymological sense) principles like Guénon did.

>>22635808
Cult of Pessimism
Cult of Antinatalism
Cult of Disappointment

>>22641258
That must have been a lot of reading for you. Are you able to read full Wikipedia articles yet? Maybe if you take breaks?

>>22641287
He sounds like an intelligent guy with pointless and obscure ideas. Like everyone in this thread discussing him. You will never experience religion and spirituality the way your simple minded grandparents or other ancestors did because you're overcomplicating everything.

>>22641287
LMAO!

>>22641315
Spirituality is both really simple and really complicated. It's nonsense to think only people born in a traditional culture can engage with it, as you would be saying spiritual knowledge is dependent on culture and is therefore conditioned, which it isn't.

>>22641315
> with pointless and obsc-

René Guénon defies classification. . . . Were he anything less than a consummate master of lucid argument and forceful expression, his work would certainly be unknown to all but a small, private circle of admirers.”
—Gai Eaton, author of The Richest Vein

“Guénon established the language of sacred metaphysics with a rigor, a breadth, and an intrinsic certainty such that he compels recognition as a standard of comparison for the twentieth century.”
—Jean Borella, author of Guénonian Esoterism and Christian Mystery

“To a materialistic society enthralled with the phenomenal universe exclusively, Guénon, taking the Vedanta as point of departure, revealed a metaphysical and cosmological teaching both macrocosmic and microcosmic about the hierarchized degrees of being or states of existence, starting with the Absolute . . . and terminating with our sphere of gross manifestation.”
—Whitall N. Perry, editor of A Treasury of Traditional Wisdom

“René Guénon was the chief influence in the formation of my own intellectual outlook (quite apart from the question of Orthodox Christianity). . . . It was René Guénon who taught me to seek and love the truth above all else, and to be unsatisfied with anything else.”
—Fr. Seraphim Rose, author of The Soul After Death

“His mixture of arcane learning, metaphysics, and scathing cultural commentary is a continent in itself, untouched by the polluted tides of modernity. . . . Guénon’s work will not save the world—it is too late for that—but it leaves no reader unchanged.”
—Jocelyn Godwin, author of Mystery Religions in the Ancient World

“René Guénon is one of the few writers of our time whose work is really of importance. . . . He stands for the primacy of pure metaphysics over all other forms of knowledge, and presents himself as the exponent of a major tradition of thought, predominantly Eastern, but shared in the Middle Ages by the . . . West.”
—Walter Shewring, translator of Homer’s Odyssey

>>22641424

“In a world increasingly rife with heresy and pseudo-religion, Guénon had to remind twentieth century man of the need for orthodoxy, which presupposes firstly a Divine Revelation and secondly a Tradition that has handed down with fidelity what Heaven has revealed. He thus restores to orthodoxy its true meaning, rectitude of opinion which compels the intelligent man not only to reject heresy but also to recognize the validity of faiths other than his own if they also are based on the same two principles, Revelation and Tradition.”
—Martin Lings, author of Ancient Beliefs and Modern Superstitions

“If during the last century or so there has been even some slight revival of awareness in the Western world of what is meant by metaphysics and metaphysical tradition, the credit for it must go above all to Guénon. At a time when the confusion into which modern Western thought had fallen was such that it threatened to obliterate the few remaining traces of genuine spiritual knowledge from the minds and hearts of his contemporaries, Guénon, virtually single-handed, took it upon himself to reaffirm the values and principles which, he recognized, constitute the only sound basis for the living of a human life with dignity and purpose or for the formation of a civilization worthy of the name.”
—Philip Sherrard, author of Christianity: Lineaments of a Sacred Tradition

“Apart from his amazing flair for expounding pure metaphysical doctrine and his critical acuteness when dealing with the errors of the modern world, Guénon displayed a remarkable insight into things of a cosmological order. . . . He all along stressed the need, side by side with a theoretical grasp of any given doctrine, for its concrete—one can also say its ontological—realization failing which one cannot properly speak of knowledge.”
—Marco Pallis, author of A Buddhist Spectrum

“Guénon’s mission was two-fold: to reveal the metaphysical roots of the ‘crisis of the modern world’ and to explain the ideas behind the authentic and esoteric teachings that still [remain] alive.”
—Harry Oldmeadow, author of Traditionalism: Religion in the Light of the Perennial Philosophy

"René Guénon should certainly be considered a Master of our times. His contributions to the "world of Tradition", of symbols and of metaphysical teachings, are truly invaluable."
—Julius Evola, author of Eros and the Mysteries of Love: The Metaphysics of Sex.

>>22641426

Rene Guenon is the most correct, smartest and most important person of the twentieth century. There was no smarter, deeper, clearer, absolute Guenon and probably could not be. It is no coincidence that the French traditionalist René Allé in one collection dedicated to R. Guenon compared Guenon with Marx. It would seem that there are completely different, opposite figures. Guenon is a conservative hyper-traditionalist. Marx is a revolutionary innovator, a radical overthrower of traditions. But Rene Halle rightly guessed the revolutionary message of each of Guenon's statements, the extreme, cruel noncomformity of his position, which turns everything and everything upside down, the radical nature of his thought.

The fact is that René Guenon is the only author, the only thinker of the twentieth century, and maybe many, many centuries before that, who not only identified and confronted with each other secondary language paradigms, but also put into question the very essence of language. The language of Marxism was methodologically very interesting, subtly reducing the historical existence of mankind to a clear and convincing formula for confronting labor and capital. Being a great paradigmatic success, Marxism was so popular and won the minds of the best intellectuals of the twentieth century. But R. Guenon is an even more fundamental generalization, an even more radical removal of masks, an even broader worldview contestation, putting everything into question.

- Aleksandr Dugin

Guénon undermined and then; with uncompromising intellectual rigour, demolished all the assumptions taken for granted by modern man, that is to say Western or westernised man. Many others had been critical of the direction taken by European civilization since the so-called 'Renaissance', but none had dared to be as radical as he was or to re-assert with such force the principles and values which Western culture had consigned to the rubbish tip of history. His theme was the 'primordial tradition' or Sofia perennis, expressed-so he maintained-both in ancient mythologies and in the metaphysical doctrine at the root of the great religions. The language of this Tradition was the language of symbolism, and he had no equal in his interpretation of this symbolism. Moreover he turned the idea of human progress upside down, replacing it with the belief almost universal before the modern age, that humanity declines in spiritual excellence with the passage of time and that we are now in the Dark Age which precedes the End, an age in which all the possibilities rejected by earlier cultures have been spewed out into the world, quantity replaces quality and decadence approaches its final limit. No one who read him and understood him could ever be quite the same again.

- Gai Eaton

Cringe heresy

>>22641442

No interest in cult leaders and heretical cults

Am just a Christian, as I was raised, there is one God

>The divine reveals itself through many different religions in such a way that every one leads in its own way to the higher truth
>but only through one or two branches of each religion
Am I misinterpreting this?

>>22639852
You don't have to go to the Holy Mountain itself or the St. Catherine's at Sinai to learn from Orthodox monks. If you are already Orthodox you can make a pilgrimage to any monastery.

>>22635808
posthegelianism

>>22641686
Yes

>>22636844
pretty sure the thing he said that was best suited to the west was christian hermeticism, granted that if any tradition was still extant it was deeply hidden

>>22641956
>granted that if any tradition was still extant it was deeply hidden
It is. Nobody even talks about it except for reading the Hermetic Corpus or Kybalion. Almost everyone seems to think Alchemy is spiritual chemistry or Jungian psychology. Do you practice? If you go down the rabbit hole you can find some really good books, unfortunately not to be posted here.

>>22641956
christianity is dead, and he said that even before Vatican II

>>22642029
>has billions of followers
>dead

>>22642044
it has no initiatory tradition

>>22642052
Are you familiar with the Eastern Orthodox Church?

A Traditionalist would probably see the continuation of Neoplatonic apophaticism in the Hesychastic tradition of the Church.

>>22642029
>referring exclusively to exoteric organizations
Buddy, did you read anything at all?

>>22642052
I'll let someone else refute that since i can't be bothered to. There are plenty throughout history and some today. I'm not even Christian, although out of all Abrahamic religions I sympathize with it the most since Jesus seemed most based and the Bible is obviously full of "initiatory" symbolism, I don't think the Koran is although I could be wrong, I also don't find the Koran, Mohamed and Islamic teachings to speak to me on the same level, it's meant for different people. Maybe I haven't looked into it enough.

The esoteric aspect of Christianity isn't always inherently Christian, lots of it just uses Christian symbolism but comes from ancient Egypt, but that's the same with other religions. The Jews stole their knowledge from the Greeks and Egyptians.

>>22642083
The LARP state churches where every priest has a $10000 watch?

>>22642118
Islam is worse for that.

>>22642123
Islam doesn't have a priestly caste.

>>22642127
Keep going.

>>22642129
I won't, yahoo it

>>22642131
Are you a shitskin?

>>22636738
>t. knower
Not Sunni at any rate.

>>22642140
Are you a pinkskin?

>>22642154
>white people are actually pink!
Next-level nonwhite cope.

Woke up to the realization that everything is one: non-dualism. With that said, I have no reason to doubt Jesus was who he said he was and did what was reported of him. What tradition is open to non-dual? East Orthodox? Would that be more of a panentheism?

>>22642241
>What tradition is open to non-dual? East Orthodox?
Yes.
>Would that be more of a panentheism?
Yes, but it's still what you're looking for.

https://vedavyasamandala.com/initiation-and-method-of-hesychasm/

>>22642346
Why not just study yoga directly?

>>22642241
That's monism. Nondualism is that oneness and multiplicity have an indeterminate border.

>>22635866
Is it good? I really know nothing about Anglicanism.

>>22641181
Perennialism is a cringy syncretic hippy shit, exactly the thing Guénon warned against.

Striker, Stormbringer, Slayer and Dominator, Master of the all-encompassing holy war, only you are real

>>22642346
every non-modernist orthodox elder would kick you out if you tell him you believe in what it's written in that article

>>22642737
It was used to satisfy religious instincts of the British after their divorce from Rome. It reflects whatever the social mores is at the time. Nowadays its quickly adapting itself to liberalism(gay marriages, women priests, etc.) while slowly going extinct.

>>22638447
The ROC isn't the entire Orthodox Church and in fact they have broken communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

>>22640733
People have been saying this for 5000 years.

>>22642052
It never needed one like other religions do. There are no hidden truths or doctrines or practices only a select few may enter into in Christianity; even hesychasm, which Guenon thought was some kind of secret initiatic order or whatever, is practiced by laymen at the direction of their priest.

I started my own cult and expect my vertical wives to arrive any day now

>>22643750
all those 'initiatic paths', 'esoterisms' can be reduced to two things:
1. a series of methods to attain otherwordly experiences (in hindu terminology: savikalpa samadhi and eventually nirvikalpa samadhi, complete annihilation)
2. explanations of 'reality' based on such supranatural experiences and their implications, e.g the 10th ox-herding picture from zen: 'how to cope with the multiplicity while abiding in oneness'; neoplatonic 'emanations', one-and-the-many problem, union with Ishwara and coming back to the world, etc

buddhisms(irrespective of sect), daoism, neidan, alchemy, platonism, neoplatonism, hesychasm, kabbalah, sufism, tantrisms, 'primitive traditions' like Black elk's one, etc ,are nothing but this. Exoterism is just those methods and speculations taken to a public level, acquiring a symbolical coverage to 'oversee' humane/empirical matters such as ethics, society, art ...
its obvious that no sufi or hesychast will agree with this reductionism, because most semitic esoterists are intertwined with the exoteric order

>>22643959
>It never needed one like other religions do
bullshit, you never read Paul? Clement of alexandria? Dante?
>hesychasm
there are texts from the philokalia which tells that you have to sit in a certain position, breath in a certain way (even breath retention is pointed out), focus on certain subtle points like the navel, heart, throat, etc. Those are clearly open practices right? the fact that laymen can practice under an experienced one (not necessarily a priest) makes no difference to its initiatic character.
so its just like sufism, tantra, the goal is to attain the 'divine light' : samadhi, oneness, and upon this experience you'll give explanations based on your cultural framework, making micro-macrocosmic analogical correspondences, etc

on his book on zen, Katsuki Sekida shows how everything is reduced to breath control, repeated practice leads you to forget your surroundings, your body, mind, what remains? the One, God, peace, freedom, Silence, pure Mind, buddha nature, call it whatever you like, even Sekida broughts up his own heideggerian explanation

>>22643954
The process has been accelerating since the beginning of the cycle, so really they they have never been wrong. The process has just accelerated since then. Guenon calculated the end of the current cycle to be 2032, which is very close to the date predicted by the landmark study by MIT known as "Limits of Growth", which predicted the year 2040 due to severe environmental destruction and resource scarcity. Either way, irreligion has cemented its own doom, humanity doesn't have much longer now until it implodes due to its own incontinence.

>>22636312
>Both of which can’t question the little order they were born into.
Wait until you're mature enough to realize people can be wise enough to be able to question, but choose not to out of intelligence.

>>22643750
>every non-modernist orthodox elder would kick you out if you tell him you believe in what it's written in that article
most of the info has been extracted from the writings of an orthodox priest (Anthony Bloom of Sourozh) and the Philokalia itself
cope

>>22639640
that sounds retarded as sin

>>22635808
Self-Initiation or go home

>>22641006
"Showing of the spirit" or "externalization of the counter-initiation" by which even some of the elect will be deceived? I'm fairly certain he meant the latter, based on The Reign of Quantity.

>>22643954
And they were correct for 5000 years. Can you not see how drastically life has changed in those thousands of years with respect to the gods?

>>22645193
when everything real and imagined come at you all at once

>not becoming an immortal Aryan Warrior-Priest and then joining secret societies and spy rings to fight in the occult war
Are you a faggot?

>>22644058
Well said.