/lit/ - Literature

>>22528380
Jolenta was asking for it. That's all I can tell you about it. The rest, you will have to figure it out as you go.

>>22528383
Well I appreciate you not spoiling it. Cant say it really answered my questions though

>>22528380
A 15 year old boy gets in fight with the headmaster of his edgy boarding school over an older girl, goes on a journey of self-discovery in futuristic South America.

>>22528380
> Is this entry level
No. Entry level books are all surface and everything is spelled out for you. You actually need to pay attention here.

>>22528380
Start with The Long sun. Buy some wine while you are at it.

>>22528380
I loved it, honestly the best series of books I have ever read. It's best if you are philosophically inclined because there are a lot of opportunities for self-reflection and Wolfe himself invites you to reflect as there numerous occasions in which the characters may do their own reflecting. Sometimes you may get frustrated at the esoteric descriptions of events or the pacing of the book but you have to be patient and you will have to re-read some chapters sometimes (and its a lot better the second time around).

My number one piece of advice is to start with Shadow of the Torturer and do not ask about this series on /lit/ or any other forum until you have finished. I don't think it's a big deal to google the words he uses (some are against it, but I think it's ok, unless you're a zoology or etymology god you need to have some vague understanding of what arctother or destrier may represent in order to imagine what you're reading) but you have to be careful because some words are neologisms.

>>22528530
Or have Lexicon Urthus at hand.
>>22528510
I agree that BotLS is just as good starting point.
You can read Long Sun -> Short Sun -> New Sun -> short stories -> Urth.

>>22528530
Very interesting. Youve made me even more excited. Thanks!

>>22528380
>Is this entry level reading for sf/f?
No, there is a huge amount of below the surface meaning, symbolism, interpretation, theology etc. Though it can be read and enjoyed as a straight forward surface-level adventure series in a cool far future world.

In my opinion it is the pinnacle of fiction. It's easily my favourite series ever. Not even close. Wolfe is a fantastic writer and he really went above and beyond with BotNS. Literally every page is packed with symbolism and deeper meaning, every word chosen for a very exact reason. I highly recommend getting Lexicon Urthus (after finishing or to read along with for definitions is your choice, I personally don't think it matters much). Then something which delves more into meaning and explanation of all the mysteries; Michael Andre-Driussi is a good go-to, but there are some deeper dives out there which you might want to look into if you enjoy it.

If it's your first time reading it then just dive in and enjoy the hell out of it.

>>22528383
Dr. Talos is easily the most based character in the series, I sometimes wonder if Dr. Talos is supposed to be an echo of Gene Wolfe himself given that they are both literary artists who have masters (the readers/Baldanders - who start off in the series ignorant and growing and then surpass Dr. Talos/Wolfe himself in the same way an author "dies" when readers start mastering interpretation of the text, but obviously Dr. Talos/Wolfe are still present to help in the management of the development of the readers/Baldanders

>>22528383
>>22528453
>>22528469
>>22528530
>>22528614
>>22528666
>Overall, I found nothing unique in Wolfe. Perhaps it's because I've read quite a bit of odd fantasy; if all I read was mainstream stuff, then I'd surely find Wolfe unpredictable, since he is a step above them. But compared to Leiber, Howard, Dunsany, Eddison, Kipling, Haggard, Peake, Mieville, or Moorcock, Wolfe is nothing special.
>Perhaps I just got my hopes up too high. I imagined something that might evoke Peake or Leiber (at his best), perhaps with a complexity and depth gesturing toward Milton or Ariosto. I could hardly imagine a better book than that, but even a book half that good would be a delight--or a book that was nothing like that, but was unpredictable and seductive in some other way.
>I kept waiting for something to happen, but it never really did. It all plods along without much rise or fall, just the constant moving action to make us think something interesting is happening. I did find some promise, some moments that I would have loved to see the author explore, particularly those odd moments where Silver Age Sci Fi crept in, but each time he touched upon these, he would return immediately to the smallness of his plot and his annoying prick of a narrator. I never found the book to be difficult or complex, merely tiring. the unusual parts were evasive and vague, and the dull parts constant and repetitive.
>The whole structure (or lack of it) does leave things up to interpretation, and perhaps that's what some readers find appealing: that they can superimpose their own thoughts and values onto the narrator, and onto the plot itself. But at that point, they don't like the book Wolfe wrote, they like the book they are writing between his lines.
Wolfebros.......

>>22528685
I often don't like to use the argument that 'you/he/she/they didn't get it', because good literature, for the most part, should be accessible and enjoyable to morons as much as midwits and geniuses. However, the idea that 'nothing happens' and that everything is open to any sort of interpretation however you want, superimposing your own thoughts on the story, is just wrong. There are very clear symbols, ideas, commentaries etc. that can be teased out and understood objectively if you actually sit down and read it and give proper consideration to the book as a whole. A chapter might be just Severian walking through a forest, but while he isn't battling some monster it would be incorrect to say nothing happens - everything is connected, everything is there for a reason, not just taking up space on the page as this guy implies.

Everything this guy said could be said of the Bible, but that obviously wouldn't be giving it its due.

>>22528380
Great post anon, very original but just started three body problem and i'm wondering when does it gets good? are the witcher books any good? Only played Witcher 3 and the netflix's series. Just started Eye of the World when does WoT gets good?? Any books like dark souls/berserk/Bloodborne??? Any books like FF/Dragon Quest/Tales of..??!! Any books with N'Wahs?Kvothe is a cuck, will slob Martin ever finish winds of winter??? Abercrombie is Reddit-tier?? Are the dune sequels worth it or should i stop with god emperor of dunc? Should i read the Hyperion sequel???? Did severian fucked his grandma? Is severian a clone? Any books with chinks? Any books like fallout/metro? Any books where the mc gets cucked? Any books where the mc Doesn't get cucked?? Stormlight book 5 when? Will kaladin fuck the fairy?? is the Eisenhorn trilogy a good place to start with W40k??? Or should i watch 4hours YouTube vid about le EPIC lore??? Any books with young petite women? Any books with old thick women? Any books with MANLY men like David Gemmell? Soulcatcher or Lady who is the better waifu? When does malazan gets good?? I didn't finish highschool so i can´t understand Malazan?!?! Any books with chinks??!! When does ASOIAF gets good??!? When does Farseer gets good?? When does lightbringer gets good?? When does codex alera gets good??? When does Lord of The Isles gets good?? Dunsany is king or bakker??
Any books with incest?

>>22528380
i really wish they still produced the edition that has the entire novel in one book rather than in four
the cover is way cooler and it'd be nice to have it all in one place

>>22528614
>I highly recommend getting Lexicon Urthus (after finishing or to read along with for definitions is your choice, I personally don't think it matters much).
Not that anon, but what are the benefits to the Lexicon Urthus over just a standard dictionary? The 4 volumes of BotNS + UotNS have just arrived in the post, and the LU is like $60AUD to buy for me.
Excited to finally read Wolfe though, I read through heaps of other dying earth stuff earlier in the year - feel like Wolfe is the Vance sequel.

>>22528685
Whoever said this seems to be very proud to have read "odd" fantasy which turns out to be the most mainstream classics that everyone has read. Only to then level the most mainstream and midwit sort of critique, that "nothing happens".
>never found the book to be difficult or complex, merely tiring
skill issue. One can be blissfully unaware of complexity. "Difficult" is another category altogether, nobody cares if reading a complex book comes easily to you or not, that doesn't change the amount of its internal connections, allusions, structural quirks etc.
Wolfe is a genius and wrote a book that demands and rewards effort.

>>22528752
LU is a dedicated companion book for BotNS, mostly used as a reference for very archaic terms and neologisms that Wolfe uses, with notes on etymology, history, myth, theology and miscellaneous commentary. A standard dictionary would only have a fraction of the words that LU provides information on, because a lot of the language that Wolfe uses is simply too archaic for normal dictionaries to have.

Of course it's not essential, but it is a nice thing to have if you're someone who really wants to delve into the world.

>>22528666
>I sometimes wonder if Dr. Talos is supposed to be an echo of Gene Wolfe himself
You don't have to wonder. Severian says it explicitly on Urth of the New Sun and the idea is reiterated in Lake.

>>22528769
That honestly sounds great anon. You have convinced me to cop it. Do you use it as a concordance, or read it and BotNS simultaneously, chapter-by-chapter?

my favourite book. enjoy. I want to say nothing more