/lit/ - Literature

>>22485681
Homer was a woman. Read Samuel Butler, chud.

i know were supposed to hate any and all non based women, but having read though a third of it i thought it was quite good.

There are plenty of unreadably accurate versions out there, but as somebody who prefers the Pope translations for it's sense of flow and fun this felt like a good, and only occasionally wonky, effort. All though kill me i dont know why she kept wring 'Odysseus's' rather then just 'Odysseus' even when it fucked up the beat.

Whatever i thought it was a much better translation than we had any right to expect nowadays. And none of you fuckers have either read or posses the ability to pass judgement on it from a poetic stance.

>>22486211
>i know were supposed
>And none of you fuckers have either read or posses the ability to pass judgement on it from a poetic stance.
t. Cretan

>>22486211
I read some of her Euripides before even knowing it was her and I thought it was fine. I think Emily Wilson has become a dog whistle of sorts for certain types of anons

>As a woman
>As a[n] [x]
I refuse to read further, this is always a species of appeal to authority

>>22485681
>Wilson chose to use plain, relatively contemporary language
Stopped here.

I never read the Fagles but i had the Fitzgerald thrust on me as a kid and for all her flaws Wilson is no less anachronistic then he was. I remember at one point he describes Odysseus as 'flying in' like it's an airline or something.
I would not have no qualms about recommending her trans to any casual reader I know .

History belongs to men. These stories belong to men. So why would I not want to read a translation from the male perspective?

I was reading the r/books thread on this earlier out of a curiosity, and it saddens me that their perspective is quite literal the mainstream normative discourse now. Our culture is dead.

>>22486239
>>22486216
>>22486211
Noooooo woman bad.
You're only allowed to read loeb cassics and grow up old and boring. This is how the feminist propaganda gets you.

Op has a closed in nigger mentality, and deserves to be called a faggot.

imagine not respecting an aryan woman preserving the classics.
nvm you're all probably shitskins or whitemutts anyways.
>>22486266
feminism is an aryan idea.

>>22486266
It's weird how you people are presenting Wilson's approach as any less biased or boxed-in.

>>22486276
I've only run a little bit of her, but as the above anon said, it was fine. It stuck to a pleasant and consistent meter throughout, I'm stuck closer to the original text and say the Pope translation.
For a literature board everyone seems to be terrified of somehow being infected by foreign ideas. Are people that unsure of themselves!

>>22486288
>terrified of somehow being infected by foreign ideas
But you're celebrating the translations of someone who has actively denigrated all of the foreign ideas and opinions of the translators before her - labelling them archaic at best and pernicious at worst. Everything you accuse these people of being, Wilson herself is.

>>22486297
NTA, but
>labelling them archaic at best and pernicious at worst
and? the greatest of leaps towards a better world has been brought about due to deinigrating one's forebears in thought.
>Everything you accuse these people of being, Wilson herself is.
I think you should get some sleep, considering that a new translation cannot be archaic.

>>22486298
Thanks for outing yourself as a complete retard.

>>22486297
> Everything you accuse these people of being, Wilson herself is.
First of all, so what? Most writers are intolerant. Understanding is for the reader.

Also archaic is not a judgment of value but a judgment of age, and difficulty. If she thought to dismiss things just because they're old she would not have translated the original text.

>>22486304
>First of all, so what? Most writers are intolerant. Understanding is for the reader.
Incredible how if someone defended Fagles or other while male authors this way, you would chimp the fuck out. Your defense of Wilson is the exact insult she's using to convince us her translation is necessary.

>>22485681
One day someone who has access to multiple translations should post a random comparison from the middle of the book by put mix up the names without telling anons. It could be interesting. All the criticism of Wilson is vague, nothing concrete. I doubt most anons have ever read her translations

>>22486315
Hi Emily!

>>22486315
>by put

*but

>>22486309
You are on 4channel nigga. We defend people because they advocate for mass sterilizations let alone because they are unwilling to compromise on your gay values. Intolerance can be in itself a virtue, and both Fagles and Fitzgerald would have considerably more in common with Wilson (and one would hope, despise a brainless little shit like you on sight).

>>22486329
The problem is that Wilson is marketing herself as someone who is beyond this form of intolerance, as if her translation is the "real, impartial, corrected" view of the work. Do you not see this as pernicious? For all your basedfacing about the virtues of the 'chans I thought you'd have at least understood that intolerance is often best mediated with authenticity. Or is that not important to you? No need to answer, I can smell your seethe already.

>>22486332
He is right tho.
None of the SJW types claim to be anything but intolerant, all their talk of tolerance is openly conditional. These are the people who protest when right wing thinkers come to their universities.

As far as I'm reading Wilson is not claiming to be anything but an updated version 'for de youth' and all your talk about how she's morally corrupt means nothing for the quality of her translation.

>>22486341
>means nothing for the quality of her translation.
Amazing. Now I see the kind of brain Wilson appeals to. Fucking kek.

I liked it better when you shitposted Sasha Grey philosopher threads.

>>22486309
>she's using to convince us her translation is necessary.
Sorry is good poetry not a reason in itself? My god, you are retarded.

Stop falling for marketing talk like it means anything. This is like not buying a product because it has black people in the adverts. At least other people claim to have read the poem. you are literally just a pol brained retard.

>>22485681
hoy boy, has a somewhat similar face to an ex of mine except my ex was a tad softer around the edges. and no tattoos, either.

>>22486271
>feminism is an aryan idea.
yes and no. I tend believe while it was inevitable on the march of progress, I think a lot of men were gaslight into accepting it.

>>22486414
You think a sanitised translation is "good poetry?"
No wonder you're fighting some illusory /pol/ figure in your head.
>At least other people claim to have read the poem.
Yes, you're quite satisfied with 'claims' aren't you. Kek.

>>22485681
That's a man

Ultimately I just don’t trust her.
Something about her screams BPD and ecstasy.
And from The New Yorker article I read on her she’s got daddy issues deep up the arse.
Also from the article, there’s a lot of mansplaining in Homerdom
Also I enjoyed the Lattimore.
When it comes right down to it, I don’t want to give her my money or attention.

>>22486271
Aryans introduced patriarchy to Europe. Aryan women are beautiful because they were sexually selected by men who won male contests. The bio product of matriarchy are niggers. That is why they have big rod, they sing and dance, they are dumb as rocks, they peacock, they are extroverted, and the women are so fking ugly.

>>22486424
> no i've not read it
> yes, it's extremely bad

Fucking based.

Women don’t build
They move in
Then tell you you have to leave

>>22486457
Who's that bitch on the left again? I remember everyone went crazy for her ten years ago.

>>22486438
then why aren't Jewish women beautiful (apart from their tits)?

>>22486495
Jews are famously a female dominated culture. Their male competition was selection in political structures and markets. Aryan male competition was war. The other element is there needs to be a struggle for survival, not everyone can be reproducing or you get ugly women.

Emily "Catgirl" Wilson is begging for your cream. What are you going to do about it?

>>22485681
Gee.. I can hardly wait for the catladys masterpiece.
>what did you think of her odessey translation?
You tell me, here is a taste of it.

>>22486634
I'd like her to give the same treatment to the Quran so we can be over and done with this bitch.

I’m trying to think of the third side to the triangle for the totally literature related regurgitated threads of Emily Wilson and BAP. There’s another name out there im forgetting I’m sure

Sing now, goddess, the wrath of Achilles the scion of Peleus,
ruinous rage which brought the Achaians uncounted afflictions;
many the powerful souls it sent to the dwelling of Hades,
those of the heroes, and spoil for the dogs it made of their bodies,
plunder for all of the birds, and the purpose of Zeus was accomplished--
sing from the time when first stood hostile, starting the conflict,
Atreus' scion, the lord of the people, and noble Achilles.

>>22486669
That’s nice

>>22486685
Nothing beats Merrill's dactylic hexameter in my heart

>>22486696
The physiognomy of a trust worthy translator

>>22486702
The Anglo-Saxon stare

>>22486711
Top 3 races ever. I watched the video. Today’s decline is so fucking sad. This used to be an averagely competent man.

>The hysteria, goddess, sing to us of this complicated man
>problematic, which many a Grecians made uncomfortable

>>22486624
Would to be desu

>>22485681
read an excerpt of her Odyssey, was disgusted. Fitzgerald or Lattimore is several tiers better.
Not going to bother with her Iliad, Lattimore is unmatched there, and it's not particularly close. Hell I prefer Lattimore to Chapman and Pope, even though they were great poets in their own right.
I get the distinct impression Wilson wants to 'correct' Homer for modern readers, and strongly suspects she doesn't really love either poem.

>>22486621
Someone refute this

>>22485681
>>As a woman,
stopped here

>>22486662
schopenhauer

>>22485681
>The Odyssey translated by Emily Wilson is amazing.

Richmond Lattimore (1967):
>Tell me, Muse, of the man of many ways, who was driven
>far journeys, after he had sacked Troy's sacred citadel.
>Many were they whose cities he saw, whose minds he learned of,
>many the pains he suffered in his spirit on the wide sea,
>struggling for his own life and the homecoming of his companions.
>Even so he could not save his companions, hard though
>he strove to; they were destroyed by their own wild recklessness,
>fools, who devoured the oxen of Helios, the Sun God,
>and he took away the day of their homecoming. From some point
>here, goddess, daughter of Zeus, speak, and begin our story.

Emily Wilson (2017):
>Tell me about a complicated man.
>Muse, tell me how he wandered and was lost
>when he had wrecked the holy town of Troy,
>and where he went, and who he met, the pain
>he suffered in the storms at sea, and how
>he worked to save his life and bring his men
>back home. He failed to keep them safe; poor fools,
>they ate the Sun God’s cattle, and the god
>kept them from home. Now goddess, child of Zeus,
>tell the old story for our modern times.
>Find the beginning.

Tyrone DeShawn (2055)
>Holla @ me bouta fancy nigga
>Thot, holla how dat nigga be missin' 'cuz he finna gonna go
>'cuz he wuz clappin' da cracka crib of Troy
>and where dat nigga went, wut niggaz he holla @, da payne dayum
>dat nigga be in pain in da wutta
>n how dat nigga got da welfare 2 be alive know whattam sayin
>how he got his niggaz back in da hood
>but dem niggaz were 2 wyld to keep at bein clappt', fool niggaz
>dey wuz eatin da sun kang grassdoggos n sheit, and da kang
>wuz like miss me wid dat sheit u aint gettin back in da hood homie
>now thotkang, nigga of Thundercracka
>be tellin da old story fo' rite now
>finna gonna look fo' da begin

>>22487722
2024: holy shit it actually worked. i guess i will give it five stars.

>>22486438
How do you fags manage to bring up black men’s penises every single time

>>22486266
>woman bad.
this is actually the ultimate lesson of all /lit/erature.

>>22485681
>Earlier translators are not as uncomfortable with the text as I am
I'm choosing to interpret this very uncharitably

>>22486213
He's from Crete?

>>22485681
Are those real?

>>22487735
Big dick is as apparent as small brain. It’s relevant to a conversation about sexual and gender dynamics of different races. Explain why it’s wrong.

>>22487722
>, the pain
jesus why is it so awkward and janky

>>22486271
this sign was talking about the Irish race you dunce. Irish race against the Bongs

>>22486315
Her odyssey is too simple so as to be easily identifiable

>>22486271
>feminism is an aryan idea.
Iranians are not very progressive

Women in academia are supposed to be ugly. What’s wrong with them being basic instagram normies?

>initials are EW
>she's actually gross
lol

>>22487722
jesus why is it so awkward and janky

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/11/20/16651634/odyssey-emily-wilson-translation-first-woman-english

>>22486271
>whitemutts
that's all of yurop

>>22489495
kek

bump

>>22485681
>Homer is male
wew lass.

>>22486298
>the greatest of leaps towards a better world has been brought about due to deinigrating one's forebears in thought.
how brain damaged must one be to type this
genuinely asking

>>22490054
You do remember what Zeus did to Kronos and Kronos Youranus?

>>22486216
She btfod herself when she advocated for dismantling the western canon. Why would anyone bother reading a translation of a canon work by someone that believes in abolition of the canon? The bias is so thick that there is presumption of the work being irrevocably tainted.

>>22489495
emilysisters...

>>22491077
she literally said in her own words that she hates Homer and thinks his work is problematic and her translations are INTENTIONALLY janky and lifeless because making them "epic and heroic and poetic" would be affirming a problematic patriarchal society, and she thinks her translation will make other people hate it the way she does too

how anyone could pretend to take her work seriously is beyond me

>>22491899
source? that's fucked up

>>22491907
its in the interview with her here
>>22489502

>>22489502
>It offers not just a new version of the poem, but a new way of thinking about it in the context of gender and power relationships today

>>22491077
>Why would anyone bother reading a translation of a canon work by someone that believes in abolition of the canon?
To test the hypothesis that the canon ought to be abolished?

Are you a cretin? Her concept is worth considering, and only worth rejecting *after* consideration. The amount of power concentrated in the canon makes the question worthy inherently. It is the question, "Ought I cut Daddy's prick off." I don't know about you, but conducting a basic analysis of her position has made me hard.

>>22491922
Homer worked for night's meals and cheap fucks. You don't memorise two great works line by line with cues for shit and giggles. Its your job.

When Homer goes to the hills and speaks the poem to the women, he resings it with more emphasis on Kirke and Penelope and hot MAN ON MAN ACTION.

When Homer goes to the City and sings to the men, he sings differently.

Homer sung for his fucking supper, he sung a different version every night.

From the suitor massacre in Book 22
Fagle:
>Fifty women you have inside your house,
>women we've trained to do their duties well,
>to card the wool and bear the yoke of service.
>Some dozen in all went tramping to their shame

Wilson:
>In this house we have fifty female slaves
>whom we have trained to work, to card the wool,
>and taught to tolerate their life as slaves.
>Twelve stepped away from honor

Fagle:
>"Start clearing away the bodies.
>Make the women pitch in too. Chairs and tables--
>scrub them down with sponges, rinse them clean.
>And once you've put the entire house in order,
>march the women out of the great hall--between
>the roundhouse and the courtyard's strong stockage--
>and hack them with your swords, slash out all their lives--
>blot out of their minds the joys of love they relished
>under the suitors' bodies, rutting on the sly!"

Wilson:
>“Now we must start
>to clear the corpses out. The girls must help.
>Then clean my stately chairs and handsome tables
>with sponges fine as honeycomb, and water.
>When the whole house is set in proper order,
>restore my halls to health: take out the girls
>between the courtyard wall and the rotunda.
>Hack at them with long swords, eradicate
>all life from them. They will forget the things
>the suitors made them do with them in secret,
>through Aphrodite.”

Thank you Emily, very cool!

>>22492150
Preeminent rape apologist Rev. Giles provides a literal translation:
>There are belong to thee in the house fifty attendant women whom we have taught to work works, both to card wool, and to put up with slavery; of them twelve in all have entered upon a shameless course.
>"Tell to come hither the women who devised unseemly deeds before."
>"Begin now to carry off the dead and bid the women: but then cleanse the beautiful seats and tables with water and porous sponges: but when then you shall have put in order all the house, bringing out the maids from the well-placed house, both in the midst of the dome and the enclosure of the blameless hall, strike them with long extended swords until you have taken away the lives of all and they have forgotten the love which indeed they had with the suitors and were united with them secretly."