/lit/ - Literature

It makes some people angry because it suggests there's nothing special about European blood that let them conquer the world. It makes other people angry because it suggests there's nothing special about European blood that made them more vicious or evil than any other group in the world. Overall, it's very admirable, Diamond pissed off more people from all political persuasions than I ever will simply by saying maybe geography has a sizable impact on civilization development

>>22212286
/thread

>>22212286
It's not that interesting to argue that cultures and languages are formed by environments. I believe those ideas are aspects of dialectical materialism, it leads down the road to Marxist thought. It's precisely the line of education that primes the pump for neomarxism. We learn people from different ethnic backgrounds have different culture norms to adhere while functioning within their societies culture norms through exposure, there's no reason to introduce the formalized argument before the premise of the inquiry is introduced through life experience.

In short, there's no reason for a 15 year old to worry about dialectical materialism or Marxist thought. The waters are muddy as hell. And here I am sounding like a twitter critical race theorist.

>>22212286
It basically confirms what I already knew to be true through pure observation. Your environment shapes your civilization. The end.

>>22212110
outdated nonsense

>>22212517
What book(s) should I consider reading instead, since you're knowledgeable enough to know whats current?

>>22212792
Mein Kampf

>>22212390
Retard

>>22212372
An open mind is like a keep with its gates unbarred and unguarded.

Because its shit historiography.
This video goes into it quite deeply. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq6EuZj4axA

>>22212866
Fear is the mind killer, the little death that brings total obliteration.

>>22212110
An open mind is like a keep with its gates unbarred and unguarded.

-St Thomas Aquinas

>>22212882
Fear is the mindkiller, the little death that brings total obliteration.

-Deleuze

>>22212110
>>22212286

It’s because it’s overinflated inflated nonsense. Diamond was trying to cope with why his favorite people the Papua aborigines never developed high culture and he decided it must have only been geography. Obviously geography is a major factor in the history of various civilizations but hardly as mono causal as he makes it out to be. Plus we have known about geopolitics and geographical conditions way before Diamond enter the scene. He ignores basic questions about the early modern military revolution theory and the processes of standardization, professionalization, and Bureaucratization that led to the modern state. Plus many of his ideas are simply wrong like his insistence that the Americas and Africa didn’t have the possibility of domesticating animals of labor. His analysis of history like every analysis of history that tries to put forward one simplistic grand unified theory is stupidly hubristic. It’s pop history garbage to “own the chuds”.

This book is up there with the Bell Curve

>>22212885
I want to force you to have little deaths all night long, by which I mean cutting your digits off with toe cutters and stuffing them in you vagina and naming them after the Argonauts.

are there people who actually don't think the geography of the Mediterranean helped shape the trajectory of the cultures that surrounded it?

Does he even define what he means by "culture"?

>>22213013
The inability of social relations to transcend increased productivity superdetermined the possible futures regardless of geography. Look at the repeated reemergence of capitalism in China. It got knocked down, but it got up again. Europe may have booted first because Europe is just a super-Balkans full of milkies, but consider that EUIV basically has to give self-insert points to Europe to avoid a Malaccan world order etc.

>>22212110
Debunked by Crash Course.

>>22213023
idk man, seems a little sus to me no cap.

>>22213023
Dumb shit question to untwist my mind, does there exist an economic system that is not capitalistic?

>>22213170
yes. capitalism doesnt just mean trade and currency

>>22212110
Many parts of it are exposed as quite silly with "how can Santa fit through the chimney?" tier questions.
This is combined with how ubiquitous it was in school classrooms, often at ages when one was old enough to ask the aforementioned questions.
A consequence of pushing things like this because it espouses support for your dearly held worldviews is that a sizeable number of "smart" kids will identify [parts of it] as nonsense and then go one step further and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

>>22212110
This book has so many errors it's embarrassing. Some retard who couldn't accept the idea that some people are just dumber, because he can't just look at the modern world.

>>22213178
>yes. capitalism doesnt just mean trade and currency
Don't talk to people who don't understand the commodity form. You're wasting your own time, and their time has no value as they do not subsist on offering their labour for sale on a market of generalised commodity exchange.

>>22212870
another anon links a video essay to argue their point for them. what's next, a based effortpost you saved off /pol/?

>>22212110
Because its bullshit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFECyeihuZY

>>22213277
Dial8 faggot

>>22213312
imagine watching a two hour and 45 minute video by some dude called churble furbles. i truly believe people who watch youtube are more stupid than people who watch tv.

>>22212890
>like his insistence that the Americas and Africa didn’t have the possibility of domesticating animals
i've thought about this before (after watching that CGP Grey video). The horse and sheep and pigs were at one point probably just as untamable as the elephant, lion, and gazelle, right? it seems like a dumb excuse

>>22213380
You'll want to talk about the birthplace of world Religions about Taming the Elephant. IIRC their historian god ripped his own tusk out to continue chronicling history without raising from his seat for a new pen.

>>22213317
still waiting to hear a single original thought from you...

Here it is a nutshell:

>niggers live on a continent that has just has many resources and opportunities as other regions of the earth
>a super advanced civilization should have arisen here too, but didn't
>to acknowledge why this didn't happen would be forced to acknowledge that niggers aren't as smart as other races and this is uncomfortable
>so they had to invent a science fiction story about how there were no plow animals there that could be tamed and that the climate was too hot

All anthropology post-1910 is pure judaic anti-scientific nonsense and goes directly into the trash.

>>22213387
>You'll want to talk about the birthplace of world Religions about Taming the Elephant
>birthplace
It’s hilarious how laughably audacious Indians are when they lie about their own history to make themselves sound important when they still haven’t invented indoor plumbing. They just lie and falsify their history constantly, making shit up like “Indians invented the zero.”

>>22213503
>no plow animals
There are bison all over mainland Africa. What is this book going on about?

>>22213595
Can zebras not be made to labor?

>>22213635
A huge part of his thesis is that zebras are too wild and can't be domesticated. Many people have proven Jared Diamond wrong, i.e. many white people.

>>22213644
Taming is not the same as domesticating

>>22213595
African Buffalo are pretty much the most aggressive bovine species on the planet. They kill the same number of people each year as lions.
The domestication argument considers temperament to be relevant to how feasible it is for humans to create a breeding stock. You basically need to be reasonably capable of doing the wolf to dog pipeline, and Diamond would argue that African animals are particularly difficult by that metric.

>>22212110
So is this book decent or not? I enjoyed 1491 which bust several myths of the conquest of the Americas. Are the critics of this one just racist? Because I haven't seen any other complains. And I know it's dangerous to assume racists might have a point, as usually they don't the're just seething.

>>22212110
What is the books explanation for the great divergence?

>>22213747
It compiles its arguments in a clear, concise, and apparently very interesting way, given how many people have read it. It's frankly bizarre that the book is controversial, but it's definitely the case that the very passionate people on both the left and right get mad about it. At worst Diamond over extends, but the basic premise that geography shapes civilization is obviously true

>>22213747
The book uses improper evidence and draws improper conclusions.

>>22213709
Were African Buffalo ass aggressive as Aurochs?

>>22213757
The simplistic explanation is that Europe is too mountainous for one empire to hold forever, and that as a result the competitive pressures between states encouraged innovation

>>22213693
How do you think domesticated animals were domesticated?

>>22213763
Hard to say for sure, but since the auroch got domesticated twice independently, I would guess that it wasn't that aggressive as these things go

>>22213765
That doesn't explain it. This geographic attribute isn't unique to Europe.

>>22213768
Taming is necessary but not sufficient.
>>22213771
That's the explanation for the divergence, not why it developed great empires. Among the notable civilizations, its geography is unique

“In mental ability, New Guineans are probably genetically superior to Westerners.”
“Modern ‘Stone Age’ peoples are on the average probably more intelligent, not less intelligent, than industrialized peoples.”

Both quotes from page 21.

Why does Jared Diamond believe this?

>>22213791
Well, why does he say he believes it? I assume those quotes don't exist in a vacuum

>>22212110
Jared Diamond a dumb idiot who don't know the difference between a horse shoe and a hand grenade.

>>22213794
He doesn't even argue it, and mentions no evidence to support his claim. Just bluntly states that people from PNG are above everyone else.

>>22213805
Lmao based

>>22212893
Bell Curve? the book sylvia plath wrote before killing herself in front of her children?

>>22213807
No, the book that says intelligence is a heritable trait

>>22212110
In the first 10 pages he already makes some ridiculous statement that his indonesian native guides are actually much smarter than anyone living in the west

Just read picrel instead. It rightfully praises eternal anglo for inventing democratic society, and explains why most countries were unable to become prosperous. It's too soft on niggers, for obvious reasons of politcorrectness, but still shows what savages they are.
Also explicitly shits on Jared Diamond and his silly theories

>>22213595
Africans actually refused using ploughs that European colonizers had presented them with. Not necessarily because they were borderline retarded, but rather their socio-economic factors (political system) did not encourage any innovation. Since their lord/chief/president would take nearly everything they produce, why bother producing more? Living like slaves prevents people from making inventions and implementing them. They'd still be basically slaves with no rights, no political power, and no wealth.
That's also how Eastern Europe lived in Russian and Austrian empires. Furthermore, if any innovation does miraculously arise, it's often in the best interest of the ruler to snuff it out. Austria refused railroads to keep peasants docile and governable.

>>22212110
This book is like the bible for leftoids on why blacks don't season their civilizations.

>>22213895
Excellent book, but he almost entirely ignores Jared's theory's validity. Geography of course plays a part in the shaping of civilizations but maybe not as much as Jared thought.

>>22213761
Such as?

Here's an indicator, how long is the bibliography? If it's less than 3 pages per 100 of text, the author is probably hoping their reputation is enough to convince.

>>22213760
Thanks for that, I'll give it a read. I read history to learn new things, not to make me feel good.

>>22212286
proven right here >>22212870 and here >>22213312
>>22213170
any one where the decisive sectors of the economy aren't based on free workers who sell their labour power to the owners of the means of production

>>22213277
Reposting effortposts (even from other boards) has been a staple for at least decade.

>>22214181
Yes, authors only spend a couple of paragraphs on why GGS, alongside with other theories, isn't good.

>>22213325
Big talk for someone who didnt realize this channel is an anti censorship mirror account.

>>22214245
>Proven right here in this video nobody has seen or can summarise.
Ok.

Sorry, anon. If you can't be bothered to make an argument, don't expect anybody to watch your 'research'

>>22212110
Because it's another load of rubbish from (((them)))

>>22213830
>>22213791
probably for the same reason wolves are more intelligent than dogs: the wolf has to solve problems on its own while dogs look to people to solve their problems. In other words, industrialized peoples are domesticated livestock who expect solutions to be given to them instead of solving their problems on their own.

>>22214557
did you really have to check?
his name is Diamond.
Diamond, anon.
Jared is also hebrew.

>>22214557
>Ashkenazi
Ah, yeah that makes sense.

>>22213807
>
That's Bell Jar.

>>22214251
>blindly trusting information you get from image boards just because it aligns with your views and mindlessly reposting trash by other people just as blind as you are has been a staple for at least a decade
Yes, I know. I don't care, it's always been a lazy cop out. No amount of time will legitimize it.

Basically it boils down to evolution is real but under no account can it ever work on human intelligence, if you think it can you're a racist.

>>22212286
>maybe geography has a sizable impact on civilization development
Hegel already pointed that out in his lectures on history, and was even more nuanced than soi favorite J. Diamond.

>>22212286
Sort of this but with the addendum that it’s become a citation used in midwit books like Pinker and Harari where it propagates points the actual book never makes. Similarly it’s included on uni literature lists where it doesn’t belong (at all), and again is used to support what it doesn’t actually say. What you get out of these third hand accounts is some globohomo puree which you’re already familiar with. Thirdies dindu nuffin whitey bad. But that’s not what the book says.

I think the most salient criticism of the actual book is that Diamond engages in a lot of unsupported “just so” stories. There weren’t the seeds for staple crops everywhere. How does he know? Because we look around now and take stock of where staple crops exist.
You should be able to see the raging logic hole of assuming all places with proto-staples also developed them.
Similarly with beasts of burden he points to the horse being a major advantage. But hold on a second. There were horses in North america as well. The difference is those nomads hunted and killed the entire stock of horses. So clearly there’s situations with the same geographical precursors Diamond assigns importance to - but with radically different outcomes. You can ignore that like he does, or use special pleading to make even more complicated arguments for why geographic realities are what dictate outcomes. Or, you can admit there’s a big fat puzzle piece that has to do with culture leading to different ideas and outcomes.
If you allow for that though the globohomo propaganda that everywhere would be just like the west if only for all the luck we had getting the right staples and animals falls apart.

>>22212110
>>22212286
>be nigger sympathizer
>blame geography
>not the borderline mental retardation of niggers as a whole
>not the fact that they didn't invent anything of note
>not the fact that they can't create civilization
>ignoring successful african civilization like ancient Egypt, which isn't niggers
>ignoring the fact that any other people, when faced with poor conditions leave and go elsewhere
>proceed to claim that Africa was raped and stolen by the evil white man
>but you don't understand, it has no resources and it's impossible to thrive there
>but you should hate the white devil for exploiting it for all its resources

If you believe in the out of Africa theory (which most kikes like Diamond would be proponents of) then that means whites would have just been far more intelligent than niggers to start with. It means they would leave and start civilization elsewhere, rather than just stay and create mud huts. But that would be accepting that niggers have shortcomings rather than worshipping subhumans and their so-called 'culture'. We can't have that, so let's cope by saying niggers had a bad spawn point.

>>22214894
> It means they would leave and start civilization elsewhere, rather than just stay
This isn’t necessarily a sign of intelligence. People leave the garden of eden thinking there’s something better and die. Most animals have a ratio of adventure driven to stability driven individuals. That way, sometimes, the leavers prosper and find a new home. Conveniently forgetting all those who die (like Columbus would have if he hadn’t lucked out finding a different continent) to say always being adventurous is smart is in fact stupid.

>>22213709
>we can over thousands of years turn a wolf into a Pomeranian
>we cannot over the same time frame turn this bovine into domesticated animals
Wow niggers truly are worthless

>>22213895
>It rightfully praises eternal anglo for inventing democratic society
Useless anglos stealing the culture of others yet again. You should be thanking boy fucking Athenians for that

>>22215019
Ignorant of the ability to make a decision to stay in shit conditions (and die anyway) versus weighing the risk of trying to find something better. Columbus might have lucked out, but if he didn't, someone else would have. And it certainly wouldn't have been a nigger.

>>22214182
He says African animals cannot be domesticated.
Something that Europeans disproved 150 years ago by domestication of African animals.

>>22215258
Black kings and queens actually discovered america far before Columbus. In fact black kings and queens discovered everything before whites ever existed. Did you know blacks invented the sun itself?

>>22215196
Wolves are easy mode dude, they literally domesticated themselves

>>22215272
Once again taming is not domestication. You may your position look really retarded when you don't understand the most basic parts of the discussion like this

>>22215295
Alright dipshit. It took Russians less than 50 years to domesticate foxes, why can’t niggers do anything worthwhile in over 10,000 years?

>>22215301
My use of domesticated was deliberate.
I know what I am talking about out of personal experience.

>>22215331
I see, which animals did they domesticate? I'm not familiar with any

>>22215334
Your mother for one

>>22215334
Niggers and arabs

>>22215341
My bad, I thought you were being serious

>>22215207
Authors do thank the greeks and praise the reforms some of their rulers made towards implementing checks and balances of power structure

>>22212390
Then why do niggers still act uncivilized when they move to white countries? Shouldn't your magic dirt theory make that impossible?

>>22212110
Magic dirt theory

>>22215258
But the first people to do it according to said theory were black africans you absolute retard. Go back to your crayon eating board fucktard.

>>22215765
No, obviously not. Geography also influences natural selection. Anon, I am begging you, if you're going to make arguments about how another race is inferior please don't make such incredibly retarded posts. The cringe is too much

>>22215786
lel

>>22215790
Why did nature select for niggers to be retarded?

>>22215797
Same reason it did for you, intelligence costs calories and somehow or another you've managed to survive while using much less

>>22212390
Of course. Plato said as much.

>>22212322
No just a retard poisoning the well.
You don't have to believe in some vague idea of European "superiority" to accept that different environments shape genetics and not merely culture.

https://www.unz.com/isteve/contra-jared-diamonds-guns-germs-and/
tl;dr:
>In truth, on their own turf many ethnic groups appear to be somewhat genetically superior to outsiders. Diamond makes environmental differences seem so compelling that it’s hard to believe that humans would not become somewhat adapted to their homelands through natural selection. And in fact, Diamond himself briefly cites several examples of genetic differences impacting history. Despite military superiority, Europeans repeatedly failed to settle equatorial West Africa, in part because they lacked the malaria resistance conferred on many natives by the sickle cell gene. Similarly, biological disadvantages stopped whites from overrunning the Andes. Does this make Diamond a loathsome racist? No, but it does imply that a scientific-minded observer like Diamond should not dogmatically denounce genetic explanations, since he is liable to get tarred with his own brush.
In other words, yes:
Environment shapes culture
culture shapes breeding
breeding shapes racial genetics.
Not hard to grasp if you aren't ideologically blinded.

>>22215272
I'd accept that suitable animals are harder to come by in Africa. Africa is an extremely competitive environment with animals that have co-evolved with humans. Not saying you're wrong, it's just beside the point.
Humans outside sub-saharan Africa have had 10,000 years of domesticated cattle. You're probably not going to get a whole new species of human over a few hundred generations but you'll certainly get notable adaptations.

>>22215864
>You're probably not going to get a whole new species of human over a few hundred generations but you'll certainly get notable adaptations.
I dunno, I'm pretty sure Australian aboriginals were separated from the rest of humanity in a way that would have gotten them labeled a different species if they were anything but human. The hokkaido wolf is considered distinct from the wolves of mainland Japan pretty much solely because of the island isolation

>>22212390
>Your environment shapes your civilization.
Almost.
- Environment shapes civilization.
- Civilization shapes the environment.
Plato didn't talk about another important feedback loop:
- Environment and civilization shape the evolution of the race
- Evolution of the race shapes the civilization and the environment.

This is a reinforcing cycle and when two civilizations are separated for long enough, the genetic makeup of each one diverges accordingly.

>>22215864
I don't think Diamond's arguments are mutually exclusive with the idea of that feedback loop. The only related thing he actively argued against is *intelligence* being the deciding factor for why Europe was the dominant colonial power. Which seems fair, Europeans don't unilaterally score the highest on IQ scores

>>22215883
That's nitpicking semantics over subtle edge cases, though. You're not going to get two different breeds of human that are as distinct as Tigers and Lions over a mere 10,000 year period. That's all I'm saying.
Also:
>The hokkaido wolf is considered distinct from the wolves of mainland Japan
As far as I can tell, the Hokkaido wolf is yes another Gray Wolf subspecies, not a full species of its own. In general I would say yes, it's possible there might be a case to classify different races of human as "subspecies" were it not for bias.
On the other hand, given the vast number of breeding humans, it's reasonable to expect to observe some patterns of intra-species variation not present in similarly complex species in the wild.

>>22215909
>I don't think Diamond's arguments are mutually exclusive with the idea of that feedback loop.
They aren't, but people treat them as if they are.

The critics who say Spaniards didn't win because of their technology are so stupid. Critics say that "Spaniards won because they had native allies".
Yeah right. That's like saying if aliens came down to earth in advanced spaceships and laser guns and a large faction of humans allied with them, they only won because of the human allies, not technology.

>>22212110
This book seems to be sending the bigots of lit into a fucking meltdown. Everybody seems to be arguing like children on a playground announcing their hero is stronger, but offering no real evidence.

Think I'll give it a read.

>>22216098
Good, you're clearly a leftytroon and I'd rather you waste your time reading this trash than whatever degeneracy you usually spend your time on.

>>22216098
Same here. If nothing else the book has earned readers from this reaction.

>>22215765
You undermine your argument with profanity. If you hate another group enough to only refer to them in derogatory ways then you show a clear bias that calls your reasoning into question. You obviously hate black people and want to see them as less and as such will likely latch onto things that push this and vehemently oppose that which challenges it. You are too emotional and as such have no credibility.

>>22213807
yes

>>22216098
>This book seems to be sending the bigots of lit into a fucking meltdown.
It's not.
>>22216493
People who rationalize like that do not read books.

>>22212286
>maybe geography has a sizable impact on civilization development
such as 70k years of evolution in radically different environments? that kind of geography?

>>22213807
kek based retard

>>22214888
>There were horses in North america as well. The difference is those nomads hunted and killed the entire stock of horses.
Damn I learn something new everyday

>>22215864
>muh sickle cell gene
ah yes well at least we don't get anemia

>>22212110
It's a highly speculative book about human history
It's actually no different than being a holocaust denier except instead of just denying one you denied many different holocausts

>>22216994
my man, let us not downplay the sickle cell gene

>>22214574
People from PNG and other HGs are not better at problem solving than "industrialized peoples", the opposite is true.

>>22216585
Cope.

>>22216106
Seems like win win to me, then.

>>22217107
Why can't you solve your own problems? Industrial life has made them trivial in comparison to hunter gathering lifestyles.

>>22216994
>genetically susceptible to humanity's #1 killer
out of everyone who has ever died, ever, half of them died of malaria. how that make you feel whiteboi

>>22217107
>noooooooo!!! you have to take my heckin iqtesterinos!!!! otherwise it's not real problem solving!!!!!!

>>22216585
>It's not.
>124 replies
kek

>why yes we can easily observe the many physical differences between human races due to environmental pressures
>but it is IMPOSSIBLE and ABSURD to even SUGGEST that any behavioural differences could have possibly developed alongside these, this isn't even worth talking about at all, ever, stop it now

>>22215786
According to said (bullshit) theory.
Which has two problems:
1 - If we are all out of Africa, then there should be no nigger inferiority complex (lol) and thus no problem with European people being more advanced since "we are all Africans anyway (cope)
2 - If everyone is from Africa and Africans are intelligent enough to leave bad spawns, why did any even bother staying? Surely, such insightful people would have done so? After all, they definitely are capable of making their own civilizations and contributing the lion's share of science, technology, advancements, culture, and artwork to the world, right?

Poor whites are demonstrably more intelligent than rich blacks. You have to wake the fuck up.

There's no European or African civilization. Individuals invent and innovate. It's a matter of having the right persons born in your state.

>>22217159
indifferent, because I'm European so we solved the problem by eradicating malaria in our home countries so we no longer have to deal with it lol

>>22217328
>must muck about in fetid water spraying pesticides
>not simply genetically immune to malaria

>>22217196
>many physical differences
height, skin, eye color, hair texture/color... all those are pretty easy traits to map out on a punnett square anon. we have only a faint idea of what genetics influence behavior, if any do at all. we're roughly aware that there's a high degree of heredity in mental illness/addiction, but aside from that, there are just too many confounding variables at play. anyone who tells you otherwise is drastically oversimplifying the science

>>22217348
>must consume vitamins to live in normal climate
>not simply capable of absorbing nutrients from sunlight through the clouds
kek!

>>22212110
I'd think it was based for saying New Guinea monkey people are more intelligent than goyims, except he made up about 3/4 of the "history" in it.

>>22213895
Except that anglos got extremely rich from colonising india and americas, to fuel their industrial revolution, while being lucky enough to have large amoutns of coal stockpiled on their island, and having no concerns of invasion due to their geographical isolation, the democracy meme wouldn't work without all of these factors

>>22217440
Got numbers to back your delusions up nigger?

>>22217440
If Europe robbed the third world of its resources, why didn't the third world use its massive superiority in terms of availability of precious resources to gain the upper hand over the comparatively resource poor Europe? Why did Europe succeed when every other major center of civilization had an incomparably more favorable geographic starting position than a dinky little peninsula far out of the way of the great eurasian trading networks?

>>22217320
the anglos italians french germans and russians made 80% of the worlds inventions
>>22217447
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1171219
The gdp of India was also much higher than that of Britain's until the middle stage of industrial revolution. The gold influx from spanish colonies also helped europe to avoid a fiscal crisis of debased currency that happened in rome(Secular cycles, peter turchin)
>>22217453
Europe had many warring states, borders of which are defined by geography, look at the pyrenees, alps,rivers like rhine etc, that would compete in the art of warfare, thus improving their military technology, gunpowder, which originally came from china. This advantage allowed spanish and portuguese to colonize americas, and fuck over ottomans in indian ocean. The origins of the scientific revolution, that however would not happen majorly in spain, but in france, britain in germany, may originate from the financial influx that colonization brought, for we have evidence that the ottoman empire, the main ideological rival of europe, was as technologically advanced before the advent of alternative trade routes through the cape of good hope, that would jeopardize its trade. Perhaps additional help would stem from the unique role of religion and balance of power, but i've wrote long enough

>>22217453
Learn how to season your chicken.

>>22217466
I need numbers nigger

And if you get colonized by people who sailed across half the world with a lower GDP, sounds like a skill issue

>>22217352
There's a huge difference between saying behavioral differences are hard to isolate and predict with scientific precison, and suggesting it cannot be done because there aren't any.

>>22217165
The drama is in you head because you can't read. Not only can't you read books or essays, you can't read 4chan posts. You just look at the OP and reply count then hallucinate what makes.you feel good.

>>22217559
https://infogram.com/Share-of-world-GDP-throughout-history?src=web

The indians are pretty skilled, the number zero, chess, quadratic equations, arabic numbers, were invented by indians. However hindu religion is too pacifistic to conquer someone, which is arguable to be counted as a downside ,thus the conquest by the mughals and brits

>>22212110
Because it has a pre-determined conclusion and ignores any evidence or dismisses any arguments that might lead away from it.

Diamond doesn't even entertain the idea that there could be meaningful biological differences between ethnicities/races. Also, a ton of the claims he does make are spurious to outright false.

You might disagree with people who take a more biologically inclined view of things, but say what you will they put out mountains of material detailing every little exception, challenge, contention etc. and addressing it all. Biological guys will write thousand of pages of material on why mormons perform better than US non-mormons of similar lineages, or why different castes in India have different group outcomes when they migrate to non-caste system countries and so on. Diamond doesn't even entertain the idea that the question of biology could even be valid.

>>22217661
no bro evolution magically stopped above the neck because uhhh it just did okay

>>22217667
>1AD and doesn't list Roman empire or anything Persian
What a retarded article.

>>22212286
fpbp

>>22216981
Arrival of humans in North America was a disaster for more than just horses. All megafauna was pretty much wiped out.

>>22217156
>>22217162
>Who cares if these HGs are grasp basic algebra, they're very good at obsolete tasks.

Does /lit/ actually believe this?

>>22217201
>If we are all out of Africa, then there should be no nigger inferiority complex
Funny how libtards miss that this is a perfect setup for a inferiority argument. Because there was a group capable and willing to leave for unknown, challenging environments, while the rest stayed.
That in itself is a selection for curiosity and adventurousness (and not wanting to be around niggers, possibly).

>>22212110
>>22212286
It's because of Abrahamism and not race or environment. Both Christcuckery and Pisslam are very proselytizing and imperialist traditions. They don't value sustainability at all.
Industrialization was born from Kabbalah, magick, and making pacts with interdimensional entities.
Everyone who becomes an Abrahamist sacrifices their soul.

>>22213380
Yes exactly. Also horses and camels did exist in north america pre-columbus, they were just killed off instead of being tamed. He's yet another slimy jew offering excuses in defence of equality instead of accepting that evolution applies to humans too.

>>22215797
Absence of need. Chimps are retarded too.

>>22217352
Rubbish, we know full well what physical traits contribute to intelligence and no surprise niggers don't have as much as whites.

>>22217667
>Hinduism
>Pacifist
You fucking what? The same religion that insists upon a class of warriors, a king who can conquer, has epic poems praising warriors, and whose most popular scripture is about a god telling a warrior to stop pussying out and to kill the enemy even if they're family.
Jainism and even buddhism yeah, pacifist, but not hinduism lmao.

>>22212286
I´m mexican, but i hate it because its boring and everything is based in assumptions about a lot bullshit. because yeah, people that lived in places with costant war are more advanced that people living peacefully.

>>22217877
You very likely fail to grasp basic algebra. You're asking an Elephant to climb a box.

>>22218153
Puto

>>22216981
Horses and camels actually evolved in America, then migrated to Eurasia when the Bering strait crossing, then went extinct in America.
There used to be an American camel as big as a small elephant

>>22217466
Don't confuse the forest for the trees. No matter how you look at it it comes down to individuals. Dependent individuals, but still individuals. If I were in Godel's chair, I wouldn't come up with his theorems. Others and the environment effect him, but it still ultimately comes down to the individual. But Europe has better support for enterprising individuals? Because the foundation was laid by individuals at the beginning. Individuals in the beginning have a butterfly effect. Africa didn't have these individuals to facilitate the same progress as Europe, to make the decisions, innovations, but they decided to do other things. It was determined by individuals. Individuals.

>>22218742
I meant other way. Don't confuse trees for a forest.

>>22212110
Because its not much of leap to say the society that lives in a colder climate with blood thirsty neighbors is going to adapt differently than the isolated society in an island paradise.

>>22212110
An anti European, anti white book written by a jew? No fucking way.

>>22218995
It's amazing how insecurity can cause people to just make shit up to feed their own victim complex

>>22219065
The book is anti-European, anti-white, written by a jew, and no amount of ad-homs will ever change that.

>>22219065
Yeah, based Jared Diamantowitz just points out white europeans are lazy geography-privileged fucks and noble Africans would have gone to space if Africa was 2 degrees colder!

>>22218004
they don't even pay their warriors

>>22212286
>>>22212322 >>22212372 >>22212390 >>22212890 >>22214245 >>22214877 >>22214888 >>22214894 >>22216587 >>22217720 >>22217938 >>22218153
All of your replies just proves him right.

>>22213380
>The horse and sheep and pigs were at one point probably just as untamable as the elephant, lion, and gazelle, right?

No. Read up on zoology. Animals have different dispositions and some lend themselves better to taming and domestication than others.

>>22213747
>Are the critics of this one just racist?
Yes. They are butthurt that geography can matter more than supposed intelligence differences.

>>22215272
>domestication of African animals.
Never happened.

>>22215325
>took Russians less than 50 years to domesticate foxes

They had to breed 45,000 foxes to get there so it was a serious, organized, scientific effort. It's unlikley that any human society in history every domesticated any animal with that kind of efficiency.

>>22217924
Lol whites left because they didn't have a choice not because of some special gene or quality. Whites became addicted to asian goods from the silk road. Silk road gets cut off. Whites panic and desperately claw for another source of materials. Find new continent by accident. Thats it. Necessity is the mother of invention and blacks weren't dependent on foreign goods for their economic survival. It's much like the lions who only hunt cape Buffalo. Very cool and impressive sure but they only do it because they are trapped on an island with nothing to hunt but cape buffalo. Drop white people in the Sub-Sahara and black people in Europe and you'd get the same thing but with black empires. Same could be said for anyone else. We are but different pigmented apes of the same species. Any other belief is cope and the anger in this thread proves it. Alongside the daily circle-jerk that this website displays on all boards.

>>22219837
Nobody has proved anything except that you are an idiot.

>>22220508
Except we do have niggers in Europe, and they still behave like niggers, disproving your magic dirt theory.

>>22220508
You seem really desperate. You cherry-picked one of the laziest comments in the thread and somehow managed to make a reply that is even more stupid and ignorant.

It’s very dumb and also just completely ignores every other developed civilization. If I had to really pinpoint the moment when western dominance happened it was when they industrialized first. But they had their “dark age” while China and the Middle East were doing just fine for the most part and the mongols held vast amounts of power as well. Dominance changes from time to time depending on who has the advantage at the moment, that’s just how history works.

>>22212110
The people of Papua New Guinea are apes.

>>22220551
Did you even fucking read the book? 173 replies and I don't think anyone in this thread even fucking read the book. /LIT/ USED TO READ. FUCK THIS PLACE IS DOGSHIT NOW.

>>22220699
I stopped reading when he made the retarded claim about the people of Papua New Guinea and didn't even attempt to support it. That alone makes it pop science garbage.

>>22213644
https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/09/can-zebras-be-domesticated-and-trained.html

https://www.sciencealert.com/this-is-why-zebras-have-never-been-domesticated

All equids are herbivorous prey species with a well-developed "flight or fight" response. But to survive in an environment where there is an abundance of large predators including lions, cheetahs and hyenas, the zebra evolved into a particularly alert, responsive animal that flees in the face of danger but also possesses a powerful response if captured.

The kick of a zebra can break a lion's jaw. They can be savage biters and possess a 'ducking' reflex that helps them avoid being caught by lasso. Familiarity with human hunter-gatherers may also have fostered a strong avoidance response in the zebra.

All of this means that zebra are not really "people friendly" and as a species they do not fit the criteria for domestication.

It's just bad history. He distorts facts to prove his environmental determinism thesis.

>>22220724
Stop with this bullshit. Zebras have been domesticated since then and even British colonizers had domesticated zebras. They weren't any harder to domesticate than horses.

>>22220740
Zebras are not and have never been domesticated

>>22220787
Any animal that can be tames can be domesticated through selective breeding.
Stop simping for niggers.
They will never like you.

>>22213709
That's not why, dude. It's stupid to blame the aggression of this particular species of bison when Europeans domesticated fucking wolves. The real reason nogs never had plow animals is because nogs were hunter-gatherers until 300 years ago. It's not their "fault", exactly, it's just the way things worked out in humanity's cultural and genetic evolution. It's not "because they're retarded" though they are retarded, but that's putting the cart before the horse. People love to obfuscate this issue because it makes them feel better about having people as neighbors who are essentially still hunter-gatherers genetically. Europeans also domesticated themselves during the agricultural revolution. Nogs didn't.

Pic unrelated.

>>22220815
>Zebras were domesticated ackchually
>No, they literally were not
>You love niggers!
Powerful argumentation

>>22220824
You're playing semantic games for the sole purpose of simping for niggers. That makes you even more of a subhuman than a nigger.
>NONONO TAMING AND DOMESTICATING HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ONE ANOTHER

>>22220824
There's nothing to argue. You're lying by saying that they've never been domesticated.

>>22220819
>it makes them feel better about having people as neighbors who are essentially still hunter-gatherers genetically.
It's actually fucking terrible to have niggers for neighbors, and is not a good feeling at all.

>>22220724
>>22220824
You do realize that domesticated animals didn't just pop into the world by the will of God? You do realize that for horses to have the traits that they have, thousands of years of selective breeding was required? What's wrong with your brain?

>>22220835
Let me rephrase that -- it makes the lefty upper classes feel better about poor people having them as neighbors.

>>22220836
He also said "the kick of a zebra can break a lion's jaw" when zebras are known to be incredibly weak compared to the vast majority of horse breeds. The excuses are laughable.

>>22220831
>>22220833
>>22220836
Domestication and taming are not the same thing
Diamond's argument is that zebras may be tamed, but cannot reasonably be domesticated by premodern people
No one, not even Europeans, have yet domesticated zebras
You may now continue to seethe

>>22212286
Sounds like it's a massive brainlet filter because I've believed this since I was 10.

>>22220819
>Europeans domesticated fucking wolves

No they didn't. If you're talking about dogs, the domestication event happend in Southern China/Southeast Asia. Europeans as with everything else (like horses, chickens, pigs, basically everything ) simply eventually imported the animals.

>>22220858
You're the one mixing up the two, you fucking retard. God damn, you'd better be baiting.
You've shown that individual zebras cannot be tamed. Good job, no one was arguing that they could. What you haven't shown is that zebras cannot be domesticated despite thousands of years of selective breeding. Every species would be uniquely challenging to domesticate, but there's no indication that zebras are for some reason immune to domestication, or that proto-horses (eohippus) were for some reason extremely easy.
Diamond's argument is retarded, and so are you. Eat shit, dumb ass.

>>22220878
Wrong, Europeans are generally the ones the do things first so I'd highly doubt that.

>>22220878
Interesting, thanks for the correction. If you replace "Europeans" for "Chinamen" in my post, my point stands.

>>22220892
lol

>>22220815
>selective breeding.

In theory it might be possible but you are still talkinga bout tens of thousands of zebras that would have to be bred. It doesn't happen that quickly. Even teh Russian domesticated foxes took nearly 50,000 and that was using stock that was already coming from fur farms established since the 1800s, not even fresh wild stock.

And it would be kind of pointless for them to domesticate zebras because they already had donkeys, which were indeed domesticated in Africa.

The fixation of these seething racists with zebras is really kind of mystifying.

>>22220462
>They had to breed 45,000 foxes
so stretch the timeline from 50 years to thousands upon thousands of years, get the idea? you dumb bitch

>>22220891
Taming does not imply that the creature is permanently docile, simply that it has been made docile enough that it can be trained.
There are, in fact, factors which make some animals easier to domesticate than others. Primary among these is a hierarchical structure. Wolves move in packs, horses in herds, chickens in flocks. In each case they have a leader, and humans supplant themselves in this role to effectively domesticate animals. Zebras do not have this structure.
Breeding helps, but without a foothold no premodern breeding program would have been capable of changing something so fundamental. Ask the Germans, they tried to breed domesticated zebras and failed.

>>22220914
>thousands upon thousands of years, get the idea?

Why would anybody spend thousands of years trying to domesticate a fox? Are you retarded?

>>22220873
>>22212286
I don't really get this line of thinking. What do you mean 'special'? Every culture is unique, but some are certainly more complex and beautiful than others.

A talented musician is special in a similar way. He may be privileged, sure, born with intelligence and above average fine motor skills, and he was blessed with a childhood education that included musical training not accessible to the poor, etc. but this perfect combination of factors creates beautiful talent which brings beauty into the world.

Cultures are the same way. It's a combination of factors which are beyond the scope of human agency, true, but that doesn't mean it should be trivialized or that it's not special.

>>22220925
im referring to animals getting domesticated in africa pil pulling retard

>>22220915
>Taming does not imply that the creature is permanently docile, simply that it has been made docile enough that it can be trained.
Why are you telling me this as if I implied otherwise? I won't talk to you if you insist on strawmanning me.

>>22220904
why didnt they use the donkeys like horses? to be civilised and shit, people talk about zebras because diamond claimed there were no domesticatable animals in africa hence the barbarism

>>22220933
Because you claimed I had shown individual zebras cannot be tamed, and that is not true. People have and do train zebras, they simply have never domesticated them.

>>22220891
there are videos of people riding zebras, that tard doesnt know what hes talking about like jared diamond

>>22220927
It’s a reply aimed at /pol/tards.

>>22220940
if you can tame an animal you can domesticate one, over generations

>>22220938
Disease, same reason nobody without the sickle cell gene could last sub-sahara, although the specific diseases are different

>>22220940
>>22220915
Isn't the fact zebras are social animals enough of a foothold? Social species require agreeableness to some degree, some level of self awareness for purposes of interaction, etc (talking out of my ass here, but bear with me). You're making it sound like they're not genetically predisposed at all to being domesticated, like a tarantula or something, but that doesn't seem true.

>>22220946
I believe I adequately explained why that is not true

I love that we're coming up with these ridiculously complicated theories that usually don't withstand even the slightest scrutiny just to be able to say that blacks are intellectually equal to every other race. For some reason this just has to be true despite the mountains of contrary evidence from basically every country on earth.

>>22220950
I'm not sure why you mean by sociable here, honestly. They don't have family or hierarchical structures, and they're damned aggressive.

>>22220819
Wolves really are not that aggressive, comparitively. They're smart and can be negotiated with. If you've ever been around actual wolves, even in a wildlife reserve, and compare their personalities and attitudes to domesticated dogs the connection is very obviously there.

>>22220942
There have been entire British regiments that traveled across Africa riding zebras. Hundreds of British soldiers riding hundreds of different zebras.

>>22220952
because its too much effort, for africans

>>22220960
And Europeans, who have also tried.

>>22220962
no they haven't, and dont insult europeans comparing them to africans

>>22220967
The difference between taming and domesticating has already been explained to you.

>>22220950
>not genetically predisposed at all to being domesticated

Why is it so hard to accept this? Different animals ahve different dispositions. Even the African elephant is vastly different than the Asian elephant in temperament, and they are both elephants.

>>22220968
you can do both, large expense when you have horses, so why would you, but thousands of years? with no alternative? they could have and should have, its common sense

>>22220976
It's not hard to accept. They're herd animals, so I didn't see why they couldn't be domesticated. I didn't realize they don't have male hierarchies and what entails for domestication.

>>22220975
>you can do both
And sometimes you can do one.
>thousands of years
>it's common sense
You are unequipped to have an opinion on this matter.

Ok, but if hierarchy is what matters, why hasn't anyone domesticated lions?

>>22212110
As anything approaching academic work the citation style is lazy(further reading section has all the sources but he never directs to it directly to back up his claims), however this may have been publisher's thing.

As far as the meritum goes he gets awful lot of things wrong, his predictions of how some cultures have developed have also been shown to be wrong with further research(for instance the pattern of corn farming spread in pre-Columbian US territory), his assumption about Euroasian cereals being somehow perfect is just wrong, a lot of other crops have higher caloric value per acre especially new world crops(both in wild and modern form), the fact that cattle of all fauna is a result of domestication of ab animal that was believed to be impossible to domesticate but somehow no new world or african fauna was worthwhile. We can go on and on.

Conceptually he's not able to steelman his argument properly. You can sort of figure out why hasn't the middle east and north africa become the hegemonic power, but he doesn't say that explicitly. He also fails to address issues like influence of culture and environment on natural selection, which is the biggest strike you can make against him on any point - even if you're an environmental determinist like he kind of is, you can perfectly well believe that white people are genetically superior thanks to it. In fact that's what a lot of racial suprematist types used to say in the past(ancient Greeks and Romans, a lot of especially British israelite larpers etc. mind you these are still strawmen of this position), but people he seems to want to btfo are very specific slice of multiregionalist racial determinist types(de Gobineau is an easy starting point for that) which is mighty strange because they haven't been relevant in American anthropology since 1920s and even in Nazi Germany they were being phased away in academia. Seems like he's using the fact that this book will be handed out to midwits who won't know about that to hide that flaw.

>>22220988
im being pithy because you're acting authoritative about obvious bullshit, just like jared diamond, its all a cope to deny the obvious

American culture is centered around niggers. They have holidays for niggers. They killed hundreds of thousands of white men to free niggers. They listen to nigger music. They elect a nigger as their president. They dress and act like niggers. They draw the entirety of their modern culture from niggers. They post sassy gifs about niggers. They watch sportsball in worship of niggers. Their biggest event of the year involves throwing parties in honor of niggers playing sports. They use nigger slang like "bruh" and "thot". When you say "Martin Luther" they're not thinking of the father of protestantism. They're thinking of the nigger. Their cities are completely overrun with niggers. They worship their ZOGbot police force disproportionately filled with niggers and their global police force of soldiers filled with niggers. Their men sit around watching nigger ball while their women sit around watching nigger talk shows. They worship niggers like Muhammad Ali and Michael Jordan and Michael Jackson and the late Eddie Murphy while attacking the whites who actually built their country before niggers took over. Their movies are filled with niggers and their music charts are topped by niggers. They send niggers to the Olympics and celebrate when the niggers win because those niggers are true red blooded american niggers. They watch nigger porn to a point where "BBC" does not make them think of an international media company but about nigger penises instead. They will tell you how much they hate niggers and how the mutt's law meme is a stale joke and they are just pretending to love niggers but the evidence speaks for itself in that America has always been and will be a nation of nigger loving niggers.

>>22220988
I'm not equipped either. Will you deign to fill us in?

Here >>22220967 we can see that zebras can be controlled (tamed)

I don't understand why thousands of years of breeding the most docile, agreeable, social, and intelligent zebras would not produce a domesticated animal. There's clearly something I don't understand. So what is it?

>>22220981
>They're herd animals, so I didn't see why they couldn't be domesticated.

Well almost everythign is a herd animal that doesn't mean it can be domesticated. HEre's an example of Bison:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_bison

Despite being the closest relatives of domestic cattle native to North America, bison were never domesticated by Native Americans. Later attempts of domestication by Europeans prior to the 20th century met with limited success. Bison were described as having a "wild and ungovernable temper";[122] they can jump close to 1.8 m (6 ft) vertically,[123] and run 55–70 km/h (35–45 mph)[91][90] when agitated. This agility and speed, combined with their great size and weight, makes bison herds difficult to confine, as they can easily escape or destroy most fencing systems, including most razor wire. The most successful systems involve large, 6-metre (20 ft) fences made from welded steel I beams sunk at least 1.8 m (6 ft) into concrete.[citation needed] These fencing systems, while expensive, require very little maintenance. Furthermore, making the fence sections overlap so the grassy areas beyond are not visible prevents the bison from trying to get to new range.

>>22220997
>limited success
thats success, its just too big an animal, imagine if it was smaller, much smaller and it was not few decades experiment kind of thing but for literally ever, you would domesticate those things

>>22220996
>we can see that zebras can be controlled (tamed)

No we cannot see that zebras can be controlled/tamed. You are talking about a single picture that shows one second literally. Hell, any circus owner can do the same thing with a lion or a hippopotamus and take a picture, and that's going to be proof for you? Why are you ignoring all the textual evidence that says no, zebras cannot be tamed, people have been trying it for hundreds of years and nobody has ever succeeded? Why is that so hard to accept?

There is not a single domestic herd of Zebra in the world. Do you realize how valuable domestic Zebras would be in teh exotic pets trade if somebody could succeed in domesticating the damn thing?

>>22220997
I apologize for being dense, but this still doesn't help the hang-up I'm having.

>attempts of domestication
... for just a few hundred years? Why is that comparable to cattle which have been domesticated for thousands of years? Was the original un-domesticated cattle really so much more suited to shaping by human hands?

My question here gets to the root of my problem understanding this >>22220996

>>22221007
Zebras can and have been tamed, they just haven't been domesticated.

>>22221002
>thats success

No. "limited success" is simply another way of saying unsuccessful if you are a native english speaker you would know that.

>>22221007
there are youtube videos of people riding zebras

>>22221007
>NO YOUR EYES ARE LYING TO YOU
lmoa

>>22221008
>Was the original un-domesticated cattle really so much more suited to shaping by human hands?

YES. That's exactly the point. And it is rare that you would have an animal that is amenable to domestication.

>>22221007
Zebras have been used in circuses to perform tricks. Does that count for anything? Their behavior can clearly be manipulated in ways that a cockroach or a crocodile can't. Does that say anything for their potential for domestication?

>>22220992
I just jumped in to the convo a few posts ago. If I'm acting similarly condescending as the other poster it's because you draw out this attitude in people.

>>22221008
With enough effort, you could probably eventually domesticate them. But without a natural follow the leader mentality it would be really hard, and until you succeeded you basically just get animals you can only sometimes control. Also, without easily domesticated examples to spark the idea, how would you even think of breeding them for traits to begin with?

>>22221016

It's the same thing. It doesn't mean that people are regularly riding on these. You can find a video of someone on youtube riding the back of a tiger or a lion as well that doesn't mean.

>>22221025
i am also a different person from the original argument, im disgusted by jew copes, and you are a coper (using a jewish cope book)

>>22221019
>no you can't convince me with hundreds of years of attempts by experts in animal domestication and taming
>and a relatively extensive pile of literature on the topic which reaffirms this claim from our most up-to-date scientific understandings of animal domestication
>I saw a picture of a Zebra posing for a photograph and allegedly have seen them being ridden for a few minutes, and that's all I need to know!
>now what can't they be domesticated????
Pearls to the swine. Why speak to those who do not have ears to listen.

>>22221039
>I have a criticism of this book
>>I disagree with your criticism and [here's why]
>this is jew cope by nigger lovers and yet another example of marxist lies and

Please recognize how unhinged you are.

>>22221033
lmao, they had a saddle on the thing, its not a tiger or a lion, think the lengths you are going and the hoops you are jumping through to deny the obvious

>>22221037
Taming and domestication are not the same thing.
Zebras can be tamed, ie, made docile enough to train
No one has succeeded in domesticating them
I guess I'll keep reposting this until the thread dies

>>22221042
its fact, it really is some jew cope book for european superiority, but please do continue shutting your brain off

>>22221037
>tame zebra
>breed ones that prove easier to tame
>repeat
>now have domesticated zebras
It's literally that easy.
Your entire ideology has become nothing more but coming up with half-asses excuses for why niggers fail at everything.

>>22221044
Do you think lions are domesticated because circus tamers and make them do tricks and even wear funny costumes?

>>22221052
see>>22221051

>>22221051
Many have tried, all have failed, but maybe you could do it if you really believed in yourself

>>22221052
Moreso than niggers.

>>22221049
Read these

>>22221023
>>22221028

>>22221049
That's literally what I'm saying don't post depressed keion at me faggot.

>>22221051
If it were that easy then someone would have done it. Yet despite countless attempts not even non-Africans have managed. And you continue ignoring the countless documented reports that even "tamed" zebras are completely unruly and whether they listen to anything depends on what side of the hay they wake up on. This is why seeing a single picture or video demonstrates nothing. Unless you have the broader information from the extended period of years of taking care of the animal and trying to tame it, you know literally nothing.

>>22221061
Yes, thank you, I wrote one of those
>>22221062
You are not saying that, you keep doing things like putting scare quotes around "tamed" even though zebras have been tamed in the past

>>22212286
/pol/troons btfo

>>22221068
>even though zebras have been tamed in the past
Not to the degree you are pretending they have.
People can play with wild wolves and form enough bonds to be relatively safe around them. This is a form of taming. But they are only "tamed," scare quotes are necessary because that's a night-and-day difference with a greyhound running obstacle courses in a dog show.

>>22221078
I am not the anon arguing that taming necessarily leads to domestication, I'm just trying to keep the facts accurate. Arguing about whether zebras can be tamed when we have good evidence that they were used for various purposes by Europeans just muddies the water

>>22220997
Aurochs were also said to be impossible to domesticate(from Julius Caesar till their extinction this was a belief we can easily document), except we know they were

Also European bisons were partially domesticated as part of the effort to avoid their extinction(and given that all modern wild e bisons are descendants of like 6 animals which did particularly well in captivity I'd suspect you could domesticate them).

>>22221086
You started this tiff by responding to a blithe greentext post in which I made no direct reference to taming beyond mentioning "experts in animal domestication and taming."
If you're trying to keep the terminology clear and I've been using it wrong then you've failed to clarify how for either of those.

>>22216501
Yet in the end, you could not counter his argument whatsoever, only seethe like little faggot you are.
>You are too emotional and as such have no credibility.
You're so close to being self-aware, too.

>>22221625
Are you sure I'm the faggot? I notice most arguments like this tend not to pop up outside anonymous image boards or other areas where it's not so easy to flee if people call you on what you say. Easy to throw challenges to the wind I guess.

>>22219065
The Movie Mississippi Burning had a line about that. Mid movie but good line.
>If you ain't better than a nigger, then who are you better than?
In other words losers need someone be inferior on a genetic level so that they can feel good about themselves with no effort. Life is easier if you have a scapegoat. A coward's mindset but this place isn't exactly high brow.

>>22220949
>nobody without the sickle cell gene could last sub-sahara
This is false

>>22220989
In order to do what? You can't farm them or ride them or use them to plow fields. The only domesticated carnivores are dogs and cats. Dogs help hunt, which lions couldn't do, and cats take care of pests like rats, which lions also couldn't do.

If Africa is a barren hellscape where absolutely every animal is impossible to domesticate and there are no natural resources why do leftist troons constantly make the argument that the British got rich from exploiting Africa and stealing all their natural resources?

>>22221635
>Are you sure I'm the faggot?
indubitably. that's all you have managed to show us.
>people behave differently in different venues of interaction
no shit retard.
>or other areas where it's not so easy to flee if people call you on what you say
also ironic when it's you who is deflecting and not arguing anons point even after getting called out on it, instead opting for what amounts to like whining about a typo.
QED you're a faggot and most likely a nigger too.

https://altcensored.com/watch?v=qvaxPH3ftUQ

>>22222004
>no natural resources
Nobody ever claimed that.
Also people are a resource, and that was a big part of the colonial strategy.

>>22222020
>skip to a random point in the middle
>literally rambling about zebras with no script and using the same dumbass retard 0 critical thinking arguments that got brought up ITT
>"Foxes were domesticated, and this proves that any animal can be domesticated."
It's like arguing with one of those wind-up monkeys that just claps cymbals together. No I'm not wasting nearly 3 hours listening to your faggy e-celeb make the same dumb fuck arguments you already made ITT. Why would you think that would convince anyone?
And if there's a stronger point made somewhere in the video, why not just bring up the point itself?

>>22222156
I have not contributed to this thread aside from that link, given that to me this discussion is hilariously stupid, as is the entire book. I won't debate it for the same reasons you would not waste time arguing with someone who said the moon didn't exist.

>>22217428
>gets skin cancer from going outside
>fails to simply develop natural shielding
Kekkers!

>>22222222

>>22222156
I have a similar sentiment as the other guy who replied to you but ill give you a little tip, the faggy e-celeb provides some timestamps in the description, the section on food is interesting. also kill yourself ect. ect.

>>22212110
it didn't cause seething. It told mainstream America what it wanted to believe. Now Bell Curve on the otherhand...

It was a cope, and it will continue to be a cope, even as Europe becomes America, and America becomes Brazil. Liberals will never stop believing in racial equality, because fundamentally they would rather have humanity go extinct than live in a reality where everyone is confined by hierarchies.

>>22224732
>>22224744
seethe

>>22216501
>You undermine your argument with profanity.
Not more than you undermine yourself by crying about it.
Also, credibility isn't necessary if the argument stands on its own merits. If one speaks the truth it does not matter who you are. If you do not understand this, you should not be here.

>>22224795
Ok, but the niggerposters have also consistently made the stupidest posts

>>22212110
It’s the magic soil book

>>22212870
After I saw BadEmpanada's video on the "Shining Path" (The Communist Party of Peru) any potential respect I had for him was thrown out the window. Blood sacrifices, sure pal, sure.

>>22225183
Peruvians eat fucking pigeons, a law was made against it because those dumb fucks were getting sick. Human sacrifice runs in their blood.

>>22212110
He is right that geography impacts development but he conveniently forgets that there's a lot of non-European groups in Western countries that are more dependent on hand outs and crime prone that the natives.

>>22221639
>In other words losers need someone be inferior on a genetic level so that they can feel good about themselves with no effort.
And other losers need to bombard a whole society with ideas of equality and the irrelevance of biology, so that *they* can feel good about themselves with no effort. Life is easier if you deny observable reality to make sure you come across as nice, friendly and accepting. Seems like a coward's mindset too.

>>22226079
>he conveniently forgets

It has nothing to do with his argument. You are talkinga bout recent phenonemon of immigrants going into countries where they are an oppressed (in some cases enslaved) minority. Not relevant to how civilizations developed in different parts of the world.

>>22226148
>observable reality

Like the fact that blacks outperform white students?

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-35958498

White British pupils in England make less progress in school compared to other ethnic groups, a report suggests.
The Centre Forum says that while ahead at age five, this group slips to 13th place behind those of Chinese, Indian, Asian and black African heritage by the time they sit GCSEs at the age of 16.

>>22227552
lol, the Brits are literally ready to remove statues of Churchill to accommodate negroid hysterics. Somehow I suspect some animals might be more equal there, including when grading standardized tests.
But even apart from that, one positive education statistic is a drop in the bucket of countless statistics that come to clearly negative conclusions. And that in a space where even suggesting inherent inequalities can finish off your research career. Not to mention the directly observable reality. Why not visit France and try the local exotic specialties, will ya?

>>22213772
cope

>>22227644
>Why not visit France a

Where the Prix Goncourt was won two years ago by Mohamed Mbougar Sarr, a black Senegalese?

>>22227552
That runs contrary to the racial divisions in America. I would like to see the report itself before I draw any conclusions. Corporate media is known for dishonestly portraying facts.

>>22228658
Yes, there. What do you think that proves? The exemplary integration of blacks or the virtue signaling of prize committees, as present in every government and academic institution?

>>22215765
(lack of) education from parents who come from shitty countries

Jared (((Diamond)))

>>22220462
>geography can matter more than supposed intelligence differences
can you name one town, state, country, continent where blacks don't commit crimes, don't cheat on their wives and leave their kids, and excel as scientists and innovators?

>>22212110
Because it's wrong, but sounds convincing to midwits.

>>22231686
if it's been like 30 years and no one proved him wrong, that means the guy is right

>>22212110
This shit is so beautiful just how it fucks itself over fucking zebras.

>>22231801
does he have one falsifiable thesis?

>>22231645
>continent where blacks don't commit crimes,

The most dangerous cities in the world are almost all in North America.

https://www.worldatlas.com/cities/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world.html

While Africa has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. In fact the only dangerous city in Africa is Cape Town where there is a large white population.

>>22231801
His thesis falls has more holes than a cheese grater. He talks about how conquistadors were able to subjugate America empires, but never addresses why they were their in the first place. His categories of advantages are all relevant to medieval China as well as Europe, but his thesis never explains why the world became dominated by Europe and not China. Of course, in reality, Chinese dynasties had little interest in colonization, and those in China who were interested in the possibility of an extended empire were constantly at odds with other factions at court. Presumably we are to assume that diamond believes this is an issue of geography, but does not sufficiently demonstrate this. Neither is he able to properly connect the dots between history and why Europe came to dominate China and India, which was enabled the exploitation of the Americas. Taking stock of medieval China and Europe, tje hypothesis simply doesn't do what it claims to, which is explain why one dominated the world and the other was dominated. He offers no explanation for why Europeans developed societies that engaged in colonial ventures at far greater rates than people in other regions. Indeed his hypothesis is allergic it. People all over the world engaged in foreign exploitation, but only Europe created societies with incentive structures for private/individual lead colonialism. Pissarro was disobeying orders when he lead his men in to the Inca empire, he did it anyway because his assessment of the situation lead him to believe that the potential rewards outweighed the risks. Diamond has no explanation for why this is the case for pissarro and not for a Chinaman. China had earlier access to firearms, similar zoonotic diseases, similar metallurgy, and greater manpower than any European nation, and yet Chinese dynasties simply did not produce colonialism at anywhere near the scale of Europe, where individuals like conquistadors and non-state interests like the British and Dutch East India companies were able to profit off the exploitation of foreign lands and people. Guns, germs and steel simply fails to address why some societies create greater incentives for colonialism than others. Sure it explains HOW Spaniards were able to completely destroy American empires (well to a degree, probably doesn't put enough focus on the fact that all the aztec's neighbours helped), but his geographical hypothesis offers zero explanation for why it was happening in the first place.
Of course it goes deeper than that. Diamond fails to address social, political and religious issues at all. Doesn't explain the mongols at all either.

Then there's the animal stuff, which is plausible but I don't necessarily buy. That certain areas had domesticable animals and others didn't is possible, but it's impossible to make that statement definitively based on modern species. Arguments about the social structure of sheep might not apply to whatever the sheep descended from ten thousand years ago.

>>22231889
>While Africa has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
are you quite certain that their policing and statistics are as reliable as in first-world countries?

>>22231935
He also deliberately misrepresents the musket warsand in doing so reveals a wildly western bias on what it means to be a civilisation.

>OP asks why novel causes seething
>thread is full of seething
Hmmmmm, really activates the ol' noggin

>>22231935
Actually he explained it just fine. China was a unified empire while Europe was a bunch of states that were in intense competition for centuries. This competition not only drove technological and scientific development but also foreign expansion and colonialism.

The Chinese for thousands of years never felt like they were in competition with anybody. The foreign barbarians on the borders were nothing more than a thorn in their side, not competitors.

Many other reasons but it all comes down basically to geography and circumstances.

>>22231889
>imagine being this retarded
nice attempt at deception calling mexico "north america" and not "central america," but the one american city in that list was st Louis and guess who's committing all the crimes there? exactly my point. You can change the geography of this race and you'll get the same result.

your bit about africa having low crime rate just proves how much of a company man you are. You can bullshit yourself and brainwash yourself, but others don't buy it. there is zero change a continent with the most rapes, robberies, genocides, ethnic cleansings and corruption doesn't have the highest murder rate

>>22231988
>China was a unified empire

lmao

>>22231943
Although you raise a valid point, it's prudent to note that the Amerinigger is a unique dysgenic subset of the negroid race.
We're talking about a people so violent and retarded that not even African niggers wanted them around, so they sold them to jews to be rid of them.
To this day, even African niggers can't stand Ameriniggers.

>>22231963
It's funny that a book like this causes more rage than a book like White trash or white fragility. The people actively attacking white people and calling them weak and pathetic are less hated than the guy just undermining racialism.

>>22231988
Imagine being this reddit and thinking you know shit about anything.

>>22232493

If you can't refute it keep seething

>>22232281
>lmao

That's just because you're a moron.

>>22232473
The ideology of capitalism being hurt by declaring all races equal, causes more outrage than just attacking one race.

Just goes to show how ingrained capitalism is in our culture

>>22233418
...What?

>>22232600
The entire history of China refutes your assertion. It's literally nothing but constant fighting between lords.

>>22212110
People with autonomy when reading a book, find without effort the wrong elements In a book, and thanks to these elements, the reader can think but with the social, everyone e follows the masses, echo chamber effect.

A book should help to think and not follow the thinking of the masses.