/lit/ - Literature

I'm sure you'll tell us.

>>22043938
no, i'm waiting for a serious answer

>>22043936
Galts Gulch is doing ok.

>>22043936
Fukuyama is dumb as shit, fyi.

>>22043936
Idk, Switzerland? I've never seen a bad news from there.

>>22044347
are they really neo-liberal?

Deep history proves that Fukuyama was wrong from the start.

>muh triumph of liberal democracy

The United States is ruled by its praetorian guard of the Deep State. They killed Kennedy, they forced Nixon out of office, they are the power behind the throne and they can make and unmake any "elected" official that they want. This isn't democracy. The United States hasn't been a democracy since Eisenhower called out the military industrial complex.

It's enough to make you wonder if Fukuyama's own book isn't a form of propaganda and conditioning. Somebody go check his early life, does he have any ties with the glowies?

>>22043936
NONE OF THEM ARE CRUMBLING

Fukuyama was literally right

No matter how much seethe this book produces and how much doomers act like the world is gonna collapse every 2 weeks no one has convincingly refuted the idea that liberal democracy will die any time soon. All you fags do is screech that certain countries will fall soon and nothing else. There is no reason to believe that life in the 21st century won’t continue to revolve around ideals of freedom, progress, consumerism, individuality and secularism. None at all.

>>22044520
this.

>>22044520
>>22044550
>NONE OF THEM ARE CRUMBLING
lol
lmao even

>>22044574
>any day now you guys

>>22044578
>any day now
The *day* already came, you're IN IT right now you fucking retard

>>22044584
Where? My standard of living is still fine. Nothing's changed.

switzerland?

>>22044347
Don't look up what happened to Credit Suisse

>>22043936
None of them are. I have come to the conclusion that people who insist the west is falling are delusional toolbags. The pentagon and US loves this shit, they love being underestimated. All you jihadi fucktards, tankie vermin and whatever terrorist shitskin will keep seething while you also can’t get enough of all the liberal system that so gracefully allow you to flap your jaws about two more weeks.

>>22043936
funny how the events of the last couple of years have completely vindicated fukuyama
>trump/bernie will dismantle the rotten system we live in
lol
>rise of the far right and the migrant crisis will destroy the eu
lol
>islamic state will bring back religious fundamentalism to the forefront
lol
>putin and friends will show nato is a paper tiger and bring about the multipolar world
lol
fukuyama was literally right about everything and no matter how bad it goes under """neoliberalism""" every existing alternative is far, far worse

>>22044574
The 70s were worse. 10% inflation. Rates were set to 20%. We survived that. This is nothing in comparison.

>>22044590
You live in a bubble.

>>22044632
>You live in a-ACK!

>>22044634
I'm well off too, however.

>>22044621
well, it seems history ended in mid 2023. pack it up and go home everyone

>>22044388
This, America is a crypto totalitarian police state, it’s the equivalent of leather face wearing the faces of his victim, in this case liberal democracy while terrorizing the world

>>22044520
>>22044609
>none of them are

Standards for government are so low these days that you can't see that Western nations have been crumbling for a long time. In the USA in particular, the cities have experienced a level of devastation that people from 100 years ago would hardly be able to believe.

>>22044621
Just because it's the least vulnerable system doesn't mean it's the best. Cancer is also impossible to get rid of. Also, I disagree with you in principle as well. A simpler explanation is that liberalism is the imperial ideology of the US and thus a major soft power tool. It will be aggressively enforced on the rest of the world and will only die when the US does. Fukuyama has no sense of history, he extrapolates massive conclusions from nothing.

>>22044674
And tell me where America touched you, perhaps?

>>22044685
The US doesn't have to die it just has to change.

>>22044682
A hundred years ago was almost the Depression, the last time the US has widespread child malnutrition from hunger and a time where roving mobs of migrants beset areas as they fled the Dust Bowl famine. Homicide rates were far, far higher during Prohibition than today.

Murder rates being low is a relatively recent phenomena. Oxford in the 1340s had a homicide rate twice that of Baltimore's peak. The natural rate of homicide for humans living as hunter gatherers is around 2,000 per 100,000. The worst Latin American states are around 40-60 per 100,000. People from 100 years ago would thing today's cities are generally far less dangerous and cleaner. Before pollution control smog would be even worse than China today, buildings would be coated in coal dust.

Don't mistake a handful of stages photos of nice areas for the reality. People lived in hastily constructed shanty towns across the US that dwarf homeless encampments today. Not drug addicts and the mentally ill, but hard working farm families hit by the Dust Bowl or unemployed factory workers. When Central Park was created a giant shanty town had to be cleared out of it. Defecation was in pits dug outside tenements and when they filled people used alleys between tenements.

>>22044728
Almost certain this won't happen. I mean I would bet it won't at this point.

People totally ignore that Fukuyama has written multiple followups to this book. His two volume opus on political development is a better read. The second volume covers the decay of liberal institutions.

People also forget the Last Man thesis of the End of History. That seems absolutely spot on in light of the modern "Boog now! My life is meaningless and I am nothing but a consoomer so I need civil war to make me a hero," mindset. He was extremely prescient on how the end of hunger and rising living standards would lead to a collapse in meaning. However, I think he underestimated how much inequality drives that phenomena. More equal societies don't appear to get this nearly as badly.

The End of History is still correct in that no new system has arisen that is more prosperous than liberal democracy. But Fukuyama misreads Hegel. One system doesn't defeat another, it sublates it and takes on its characteristics. For example, socialism was sublated such that all liberal states now have socialist policies, e.g. no child labor, pensions, universal education, etc. Nationalism was also sublated. Not even liberals would claim that giving Algerians the vote within France would have made things right. They see the need for an Algerian state for Algerians.

The problem is that the current system still has contradictions that must be sublated.

>>22044756
>no new system has arisen that is more prosperous than liberal democracy.
Characterizing liberal democracy as a system is incorrect. Our actual system is just an international imperial oligarchy. 'liberal democracy' is the nebulous narrative/ideology they use to justify their rule.

>>22044756
The current system merely reifies what came before it. We still have an aristocracy, a small amount of people that control most of the wealth and most of the power. We still have propaganda, a secret police, all manner of these things that have supposedly been discarded from the time of totalitarianism.

It's all a crock of shit. That's what grates on people, the glaring hypocrisy of it all. What democracy? The average person matters as little as they ever have. What liberalism? You can still have your life ruined for saying the wrong thing. What capitalism? The little guy still gets fucked over at the expense of big landed interests.

It's all fucking bullshit and there's not any instance of anybody in power practicing what they preach. And now with the internet we can call out the bullshit in real time. That's what's leading to collapse, everybody realizing that the bastions of liberty and democracy are just full of shit.

>>22044766
NTA, just wanted to say I agree but unfortunately I think the decay will be very slow. The Roman empire existed in some form for almost 1000 years. I see no reason why the same won't happen with the US, even if it does turn into another Brazil.

>>22044776
Technologically Rome was stagnant compared to us. There are also many, many, many more of us than them. There are lots of differences between our situation and theirs, thats not to say there isn't things to be learned from history, Rome, but the idea that because Rome declined in a certain fashion we will too, is just false.

>>22044809
Oh I don't think it's going to be the same, I think it's going to be worse. Just wanted to use Rome as a benchmark. The Romans would have already revolted IMO.

Real Democracy just hasn't been tried yet guys!

>>22044816
Things might pop off in certain regions of the United States as the population sorts itself along explicitly ideological lines.

Honestly I feel like people aren't taking seriously the possibility that the US collapses like the Soviet Union. Biden has some Brezhnev-like qualities and the whole apparatus at the top seems zombified like the Soviet system by its end. There's non-zero odds the US simply reaches a crisis point, blinks, and then putters apart with a whimper.

>>22044816
The potential is there for things to be worse, it's easy to be pessimistic, but theres also more potential for change. The solution is going to be technical. Democracy is long overdue for an upgrade, were using a system that no longer works as evidenced by the ever increasing democratic deficit we see throughout the Western world.

Think about taxis, you give power to the driver, he can choose to do the right thing, take you where you need to go or he can fuck you around. But you have no recourse at all. Then along comes Uber, they completely change the game, making the taxis entirely obsolete. Power has been placed back in the hands of the customer, the whole interaction is open and accountable. Taxis centralise power, Uber decentralises it.

>>22044764
Correct. Fukuyama sort of admits this but not explicitly, because he’s ultimately a liberal imperialist and needs to keep up the illusion.

>>22044574
How zoomer are you? 5% was standard before 2008

>>22043936
>Israel
Countries with racist/fascist pop are collapsing too.

>>22044682
Nigga my Dad didn't even have indoor plumbing until the mid 60s.

>>22044860
This just gets exactly at what I was saying in >>22044766 . IT'S ALL BULLSHIT. It's just another form of imperial control. Nothing has actually changed. The Romans thought their empire was for the good of the world. So did the Spanish. So did the British. How are the Americans any better? They're not, they just THINK they are.

If the United States is unique, it's unique in being a uniquely bad imperial hegemon because Americans are idiots who huff their own ideological farts. Even the British weren't this bad at believing their own bullshit. But America ACTUALLY BELIEVES it's spreading "liberty" and "equality" around the world, as it terrorizes South America and the Middle East.

It's fucking insufferable and it makes the United States uniquely hateable as an imperial power. Just rule the world and be done with it. Don't try and cover yourself in glory for doing so. The Romans had the right idea, just be an empire and don't waste our time justifying it.

>>22044347
>Switzerland
The only country in the world with municipalities which are managed through direct democracy.

>>22044848
I just think that moment is way in the future. People of a certain political persuasion have been predicting a collapse for how long now? That kind of optimism is counterproductive because it keeps you from taking effective action.

>>22044851
>Think about taxis, you give power to the driver, he can choose to do the right thing, take you where you need to go or he can fuck you around. But you have no recourse at all. Then along comes Uber, they completely change the game, making the taxis entirely obsolete. Power has been placed back in the hands of the customer, the whole interaction is open and accountable. Taxis centralise power, Uber decentralises it.
You can't be serious. You think Uber is less centralized than local taxi companies? Your example would be correct if the driver was actually independent, which they're not. They're dependent on a much larger entity against which they have far less recourse. I mean your example actually perfectly represents centralization. Furthermore it's also a great example of 'false liberation' - i.e. when you just change masters but don't realize it so you think you're free.

>>22044756
Define "prosperous". Does it mean the beauty in choosing hundreds of the same goyslop burgers and sodas? I love liberal "democracy"!

>>22044766
You’re on the right track anon but not really. The problem we encounter today and the reason why we still talk about the “end of history” thesis is that even though we are free to see the contradictions of liberal democracy, the only solution that anyone has posited is more liberal democracy. Everyone across the spectrum can speak their minds against modern society through the internet but what are they actually suggesting in place of our ruling classes and our liberal values? The exact same thing.

Conservatives complain that evil Marxist Democrats are violating their freedoms just as leftists complain that evil racist Republicans violate their freedoms. We’re still in a fucking loop. Almost no one is suggesting anything that isn’t liberalism, and if they are then they don’t apply it outside of the Internet anyways. No matter what happens everyone is still just gonna demand freedom and equality in different ways. That’s what it means to be at the end of history. It doesn’t mean there will be no wars, it means that after the war is over everyone will go back to the same system that caused the war in and endless cycle.

>>22044776
>MUH ROME
US is not "the Roman Empire", it's Chernenko-era USSR. The US (in its current iteration) has 30 years left in it TOPS

>>2204487
>Everyone across the spectrum can speak their minds against modern society through the internet but what are they actually suggesting in place of our ruling classes and our liberal values? The exact same thing.
First of all, this is completely and demonstrably untrue. Second, it has less to do with the system than the ruling class. Remove the ruling class instead of theorizing up bullshit. Simple as.

>>22044872
Completely talked past my point. It wasn't about the company but the power the customer no has.

>>22044876
So... we need a new Napoleon, is what you're saying.

>>22044887
It's not about the power the customer has. It's where the power comes from. Also how am I talking past your point? Your example is not one of decentralization, at all.

>>22044883
>Remove the ruling class instead of theorizing up bullshit
And how are you going to do that? By tweeting? By boycotting Bud Light? You wanna change the ruling class, you need to pick up guns and fuck shit up. No one wants to do that anymore. No one wants violence or glory or bloodshed. Again, this is what it means to be at the end of history. You shouldn’t take it literally, it’s more of a state of entropy that we have voluntarily chosen for ourselves. We are in purgatory and we’re afraid of reaching for heaven or spiraling towards hell, so we sit in limbo instead suffocated by our comfort.

>>22044900
>And how are you going to do that?
See now that's an interesting question.

>You wanna change the ruling class, you need to pick up guns and fuck shit up. No one wants to do that anymore. No one wants violence or glory or bloodshed. Again, this is what it means to be at the end of history.
I don't see how one follows from the other.

>>22044776
>even if it does turn into another Brazil.
It won't. Brazilians knew what they were dealing with, which is why even their middle class homes are fortresses. They weren't bombarded by the Civil Rights regime propaganda for 60 years either.

>>22043936
Japan?

>>22044388
I bet your portfolio is looking real healthy

>>22044574
What kind of fucking retard thinks mid nominal rates are a sign of a crumbling country.

>>22044894
You're looking for a different analogy. Which customer has more control of their interaction, the one who uses a regular taxi or the one who uses Uber?

>>22044941
transaction*

>>22044941
What analogy? But to answer your question, I don't think it's the one using an Uber driver. That may be the case but I certainly don't think it's a given.

>>22044953
>I don't think it's the one using an Uber
Why not?
>That may be the case but I certainly don't think it's a given.

>Think about taxis, you give power to the driver, he can choose to do the right thing, take you where you need to go or he can fuck you around. But you have no recourse at all. Then along comes Uber, they completely change the game, making the taxis entirely obsolete. Power has been placed back in the hands of the customer, the whole interaction is open and accountable. Taxis centralise power, Uber decentralises it.

I'm talking about power over the transaction between the two parties, not the companies, thats another matter we can get onto to that but this point first.

"liberal democracy" is just the ideology of the USA that it imposes on the rest of the world through its empire. if/when the influence of the USA declines, or the USA retreats from the world, you will see liberal democracy disappear almost immediately. "Liberal democracy" is simply not the natural form of governance virtually anywhere on Earth, and when the American Empire goes away, the rest of the world will simply shrug it off and go back to forms of government more natural to them

Most people would be skeptical of this claim, but I don't really get why. When you see recent rumblings of, say, the french military threatening to take over, you realize that most people see democracy as inefficient and slow. Once the american empire goes away you will see military rule and monarchies pop up everywhere immediately just like what you saw with the taliban

Even USA itself will revert back to forms of government more natural to it, like stratified confederation and systems of natural law.

>>22044756
>However, I think he underestimated how much inequality drives that phenomena. More equal societies don't appear to get this nearly as badly.
on the contrary, inequality means the poor will think only of trying to be bourgeois.
Bourgeois have been bored between 2 orgies for 300 years already, and all they do is some fake introspection during the day which lead them to spleen a few minutes before having to get ready for the new orgy already.

The situation in America, no matter how complex it seems and how many pseud humanist takes you can make on it, is just gonna be solved by yet another Caesar/Napoleon style strongman who's just gonna take over and put an end to the previous republic. It'll be tribal wars, chaos, a whole bunch of people dying, a shattering of the old order, and a return to peace with a new status quo.
Humans are just too unoriginal and predictable.

>>22045011
>le magic Hitler is going to save us bros two more weeks
Pure cope

>>22044962
>I don't think it's the one using an Uber
There are multiple reasons for this - some more banal - such as the fact that most taxi companies have switched to using apps that are almost or entirely identical in functionality to Uber.

Furthermore, what are even your criteria here? Are you saying you have enough of an understanding of your own preferences to measure how much this change in control is worth to you? Personally I have never noticed a significant practical difference between a taxi and an Uber. Certainly not anything that I couldn't chalk up to random chance. If a taxi driver fucks me over or whatever, I probably wouldn't even notice it. Therefore, any amount of difference in control, marginal benefit in terms of either finance or utility, etc. is negligible to me.

Maybe you disagree? Okay, what is your evidence and what is even your standard in this situation? At what point would you say 'there's no significant difference'? In monetary terms, how much do you expect to gain if you use Uber 100% of the time?

Going even further, why do you assume my preferences for me? A situation where I allow a driver to fuck around with the route/overcharge me/etc. might be either something that I'm looking for or something I don't really care about as long as it stays within a certain margin.

>I'm talking about power over the transaction between the two parties, not the companies, thats another matter we can get onto to that but this point first.
Do you not understand why I have a problem with this? Any power I gain as a customer in this situation is not my own. It's power that is lent to me by Uber who acts as my patron in this situation. If you insist on describing this interaction as an interaction between two parties, then it is in fact more accurate to describe this as an interaction between myself and Uber.

I would admit you're somewhat correct in the sense that the driver has lost power in this situation, but this power just goes to Uber - who can then use it as they wish. Right now they're using it to make things more convenient, perhaps. Tomorrow though someone might find an old tweet of mine or whatever the fuck and then no more Uber. How much control would I have then? I actually don't know, but I do know that in its totality it's a different distribution of control than what I would have with a local taxi company.

Frankly, I find the fact that you started this conversation by calling Uber with its fucking oligopoly an example of decentralization and then somehow boiled it down to taking power away from the drivers fucking ghoulish. I am 100% more comfortable with smaller business entities located closer to me than some faggot-ass Silicon Valley monstrosity with its board filled with oligarchs fresh off their 'journalism-glownigger-academia' Cursus Honorum and I'm willing to forego benefits for it.

>>22045015
>history isnt gonna repeat itself THIS time guise because
>b-because
>it just won't ok! WE'RE ENLIGHTENED! WE HAVE THE INTERNET!
The cope is thine.

>>22045011
the USA were built by bourgeois tax evaders, those people will never ever give birth to any dictator.
Even being a dissident right now in the USA means going back to "the constitution'' ie the paper written by the bourgeois founding fathers and living through their republic. It's impossible to topple their democratic republic and all the civil servants working for it.

>>22043936
None of them are crumbling. None. Incels like to pretend they are, because they can't breed and can't buy houses, but plenty of people can, and what is happening is just the natural social darwinism that follows from the sexual revolution.
Of course eugenics seems like a holocaust to the outclassed, but this is a very partial perspective that does not give the whole truth..
The deranged optimists are completely right, it just keeps getting better in the west - not for all, but for most, and that is what really matters. Losers have always existed. They do not write the history books. Think of the splendour of Rome as it moved towards it's highest peaks - that is where the west is now. Unfortunately for (You), you are one of the slaves tilling the fields.

it's truly mind boggling that there are """people""" out there with such servile mentalities that they genuinely consider tax evasion shameful
aristotle was right about natural born slaves

>>22045046
Okay first of all 'eugenics' and 'natural Darwinism' are basically opposites. Also you conflate 'incels', people who don't breed and people who can't buy houses in a weird way when the three have little to do with each other. First of all the relationship between sex and reproduction is tenuous. People don't actually have a baby every time they fuck. Second of all, poor people reproduce at a far greater rate than those who are rich or middle-class. Finally, it's entirely possible that the 'betas' who settle down with the used up whores end up reproducing at a higher rate than 'chads'.

Just in general, most of your post is bullshit from beginning to end, which is unsurprising because you seem to think you're on /pol/.

>>22045044
>bourgeois tax evaders
Sounds like Caesar's family to me. Literally all you need is a MacArthur with more gusto.

>>22045022
When did history repeat itself in this fashion last time?

>>22045046
>Think of the splendour of Rome as it moved towards it's highest peaks

>>22043936
1. Neo-Liberalism and democracy are contradictory. If you live in a shithole like that, you were fed a lie and swallowed it. That's like why you have the brain, body, and capabilities of a hippo out of water
2. Everything is in a book. That it is in a book doesn't make it literature. I know this can be hard for illiterate turd-brains to understand since reading seems such a magical thing that you have to pretend to be able to do it, nonetheless, this is the fact. This thread is shitty spam and you are spamming the wrong board

>>22045096
Depends on where you look.

>>22044388
That is exactly how democracy works actually. An oligarchy and their private army always gets control.

>>22045096
I mean he's coping but it's arguably already happened in US history twice - under Lincoln and FDR.

>>22044685
Why does everyone just insist the state ideology is liberalism? The state department bullies countries over rights for transsexuals and flies pride flags on their embassies. Foreign policy is almost exclusively about getting women in universities and corporate jobs. This would’ve been totally unrecognizable to the liberals of the 18th-19th centuries.

>>22044743
You’ll have to provide citations for those numbers. They sound like bullshit to me.

Stop and think for a second what anons could possibly have to gain from lying to you about the state of the US and claiming we're living in glorious times.

>>22045148
Straight back at ya champ.
What is the motivation for someone to believe the opposite? Think of all the laziness and self pity that justifies

>>22044756
What is so prosperous about liberal modernity exactly? I doubt anyone can actually point this out without cherry picking industrial age comparisons or presenting a false picture of pre-modern history. And what does it matter if it is more “prosperous” anyway? If you supply everyone with infinite food and drink and physical comfort but suffocate everything that actually makes life worth living, how is that not just air conditioned hell? And why is air conditioned hell better just because it’s air conditioned?

>>22045156
I have nothing to gain from pointing out the obvious.
Meanwhile the Fukuyama worshippers all sound like CIA operatives and/or prebaked ChatGPT posts. That sort of shilling can pay well. I might as well be listening to vatniggers calling the praises of glorious mother Russia when I hear you fucks saying how liberalism has perpetually triumphed over history and there's no problems whatsoever.

>>22044766
What grates on people is that all life pursuits are deprived of dignity. Religion is denied and mocked, war is more like a car wreck than a war, and work is more like operating machinery or computer systems than actual work. If man is a praying, fighting, and working animal, what is he when he can’t pray, can’t fight, and can’t work? He is nothing.

>>22044851
> I know technical tech democracy world got us into this miserable mess but what we need is more and better tech! More democracy!

>>22045169
I'd say you have a lot to gain. You can excuse all your poor life choices, your lack of direction, you lack of a gf or a job commensurate with what you feel is your worth, by claiming its not your fault.
Doomerism, like most online reactionary thought, is a comfort blanket. If literature is dead it's less galling that you lack talent

>>22044869
The Romans did try to justify it. This is an ahistorical take. What you’re really getting at here is that the Roman elite were a military aristocracy who, not entirely but largely, were stewards of the land and agriculture. The American elite is a frankenstein’s monster hybrid of professionals, businessmen, and especially technocrats. They are a middle class bourgeois with technophilia added in and they always confuse their own social class concerns for political concerns. This is what we’ve been dealing with since the revolutions of the 18th century and to a certain degree, much earlier than that. The West is the first civilization in history to hand over power to what was a feudal middle class.

I actually realized the opposite scenario seems to become reality. Liberal democracies are here to stay and won't go anywhere soon. Critics underestimate the comfort factor - no matter how much people screech, they simply enjoy the perks those corpo molochs like Amazon, Apple, McDonalds, GrubHub, Door dash, Netflix ... etc. simply offer. Third worlders leave their trad countries to slave away as delivery drivers and accept that their children have to be indoctrinated with concepts that are completely in opposition with their family values. But they still accept it enraged and with clenched teeth because western countries are simply the apex in terms of living standards.

Thats why I simply laugh at any one of those Napoleon will come back or le heckin uprising fantasies because it's just pure cope. it's over and the future will be just the same sovlless corpoglobo wasteland that it is now

>>22044876
There might just be no positive outcome in modernity because modernity is a soul trap. It’s more about machines and computers than it is about people. Look at the war in Ukraine. 2,000 years ago if the a country called America wanted to support that war, it would’ve had to send troops physically to participate in battle and advise. Now, all it has to do is send money and tech. We’ve given our souls to money and tech and money and tech is how you achieve anything.

>>22044889
It’s debatable whether a Napoleon can exist today.

>>22045189
Armchair psychology and projection that doesn't apply to me will get you nowhere, friend. Meanwhile, the unpersoning and ad hominem attacks on the critics of the system is an old playbook that you're following to a T. The fact remains that liberal democracy is increasingly stampeding towards plutocracy in a way that's unsustainable and totalitarianism is breathing down our necks in the West more and more with each passing year.
Speaking truth to power is more important now than it's been in the last 50 years, and you sitting here shitting down on those doing it clearly shows which side you are on, assuming it's even a human being I'm talking to and not an algorithm which a narrow bunch of prebaked responses.

Also someone please explain what this "two weeks" meme is and why it's being used as if it has any sort of significance.

>>22044887
You can just opt not to use Uber. You can’t opt to not use your state. It’s a de facto monopoly.

>>22044900
It seems so obvious to me that nobody wants that because in the machine age, violence actually means mass slaughter and catastrophe.

>>22045203
>Thats why I simply laugh at any one of those Napoleon will come back or le heckin uprising fantasies because it's just pure cope.

All it's going to take is a few civil wars, anon. And the political situation is a pressure cooker that only gets more volatile. Let's not forget the US was burned down in popular rage in 2020 and a large group of political activists stormed the Capitol in 2021. But no, it's business as usual, nothing to see here.

>>22045001
That could be centuries.

>>22045189
You are a either a fucking retard or a piece of shit, probably both. NTA, but:
>excuse all your poor life choices, your lack of direction, you lack of a gf or a job commensurate with what you feel is your worth
Wow, you telling me someone unhappy with the system is going to be skeptical of the things that the system presents as valuable? No shit Mr. Freud. And all you can do is assume motives because you're too much of a contemptible fucking retard to attack his points on their own merit.

>by claiming its not your fault
Utterly brainlet take. Not a single fucking thing in life is anyone's fault. It's a combination of factors, most of which will not and probably cannot be measured. But let's say it's 80% your effort and 20% being born the right color and gender. Let's say that 80% makes it my fault. Why should I fucking labor under a 20% disadvantage anyway? You think it makes me any happier that it's not 'my fault'? You think that will be sufficient to motivate me to conform to someone else's fucking ideas of what I should be? Not just someone else's, but someone I fucking hate and want gone.

>If literature is dead it's less galling that you lack talent
What the fuck do you think the correlation is between talent and getting published? I mean forget the current industry - which openly discriminates in favor of women and shitbloods - forget all that. Think about the best possible scenario where the publishers' offices are all filled with purveyors of fine literature. Even in that scenario it won't be the talented that get the most business and you should be able to figure out why.

>>22045044
Why not? You could just get a bourgeois tax evader as a dictator. This is the really ugly thing about modernity. There’s no religion, no world enchantment, everything is ugly and you don’t get an Alexander because you get a Donald Trump instead.

>>22045247
Trump was closer than you think. Before Caesar there were others who were close to being him. Look up Gaius Marius and the Gracchi brothers. Marius was Caesar's uncle in fact, and he got cancelled pretty much literally. Had to fucking flee to Africa IIRC.

>>22045203
It could be worse than that. There’s no reason why the comfort corpo hell you described isn’t achievable in an autocracy.

>>22045232
And yet nothing happened in 2022 or 2023. You’re going to spend the rest of your life waiting for these civil wars to kick off, or you’re going to be 70 and have missed them.

>>22045270
An autocracy is not worse than an oligarchy. For one thing, it allows for decisive, transformative action. Also, an autocrat is vastly more accountable than the entirety of an oligarchic structure because his power is formal and public. Actually very few autocrats had the level of power that most moderns seem to think they did.

>>22045254
Whether or not Trump would or wouldn’t take power isn’t really my point. My point is that modernity selects for a certain type. Everyone expects Caesarism means some based Hitlerian figure who rides in like some sort of warlord, but it seems to me more likely to be a lawyer-businessman liberal turned politician as the political elite has been for something like 200 years now. This is why I view right wing talk of “a Caesar” with skepticism. What is a “a Caesar” in modernity? It’s a technocrat. I struggle to see a positive outcome in modernity and moreover, I think the Nazis discredited any and all right wing attempts to exit modernity.

>>22045284
Yeah, we could be more decisive and transformative in our transition to a soulless AI driven economy and we could shove our heads into the hole that is space for a hundred years while we pretend life isn’t more meaningless than it’s ever been down here on earth.

>>22045296
Well, even if you're correct...as opposed to what? If we keep going the same way, we're just going to have shit get worse for the next few hundred years. I'd rather burn than rot.

>>22045284
you're a retarded child

>>22045321
NO U

>>22045316
I think what I’m presenting is really the idea that maybe we’re going to go the same way no matter what. Eventually, technological progress, capitalism, all this shit will end and fall apart because that’s just how history works. But up to that point, what we get might be something as bad or worse than the air conditioned hell and tech dystopia that we have now. I’m a bit Luddite, and I love to engage most of all in medieval fantasy. For me, it almost feels pointless to talk about alternatives in a world where you’re trapped by technological living either way. It robs life of its sweetness and I just can’t really see otherwise.

>>22045326
Capitalism is less of an impersonal force than some of /lit/ would have you believe. Personally I think we can 're-wild' humanity, it'll just take a bit of effort.

>>22045343
I suppose it could happen but it happens organically over centuries. What I’m talking about is really for us. I was born into technological modernity and I will probably die in technological modernity.

>>22045347
Yeah that's absolutely true.

>>22045353
So to the point then, what difference would this transformation make? It wouldn’t make any difference. What you’re getting is arguably worse. I think this inability to imagine any sort of actually positive outcome of any transformation, is a major driver for the escape into the virtual over the last 20-30 years.

>>22043936
Japan, ROK, a few eastern european countries

>>22045388
>So to the point then, what difference would this transformation make?
Well I mean at the very least basic error correction. Fix the obvious shit, remove a bunch of institutions, retire some government employees, etc.

>>22045321
The vast majority of governments throughout history were "autocratic" and far more effective than what we have now.

>>22044756
Most people bashing Fukuyama have obviously not read the book and parrot dumb journalists who felt very clever pointing out "oh look events are still literally happening, so history has not ended, gotcha!"
Reminds one of the critics who were arguing against Dawkins' Selfish Gene back in the day with some variations of "ummm but its wrong that we're genetically determined to be selfish, hah I debunked this stupid biologist".
It's all tiresome.

>>22045424
I think you’re missing my point though. What I’m suggesting is that the errors might be too fundamental to be fixed, and also that if errors were to fixed that maybe that won’t really matter because it doesn’t result in fundamental change, either for us or those that come after us. Again, if man is a creature that prays, fights, and works, and you either prevent him from doing those or change the nature of doing those to a degree that renders them effectively meaningless, what is man really? Could a technocrat dictator fix the supply chain and bring down inflation and reduce taxes? Sure. Will that make life sweet or worth living or meaningful? No. Ultimately, our problem is existential. At least it is for me. For me, retiring government workers doesn’t even remotely scratch the surface of what is really essential. To have lost so much and talk about trimming government fat seems so pointless to me.

>>22045497
>Again, if man is a creature that prays, fights, and works, and you either prevent him from doing those or change the nature of doing those to a degree that renders them effectively meaningless
>Could a technocrat dictator fix the supply chain and bring down inflation and reduce taxes?
See you're just being an economic reductionist here. The government can do way more than that. It can bestow honors. It can effectively ban many things. For example every country could ban Netflix today. They could ban porn. They could ban any kind of degenerate entertainment. These bans wouldn't be 100% effective but they would be way more effective than any that came before.
Same for promoting certain things. The main reason people aren't praying anymore is because there's massive institutional pressure against religion. Just get rid of those institutions and suddenly that won't be an issue anymore. The 'fighting' part is probably the hardest but honestly the government could just mandate combat sports in schools, create public leagues, etc. if it's fighting specifically you want. It's been done before and frankly many Roman aristocrats never saw combat, yet still trained for it.

>>22045529
You’re still missing the point. I feel like I’m talking to myself, like you’re reading my words but you’re not really reading my words. I wasn’t talking about the government. That the government does more than that is precisely the issue. I’m talking about man as man, the human creature. Doesn’t it seem ridiculous to you to talk about banning pornography in a world where being a soldier, man as the archetype of soldier, means sitting on your fat ass behind a computer screen in a trailer and launching predator drones? The modern world has fundamentally changed what it means to fight, to be a fighter.

>>22045548
Well I mean what do you want me to say? Yeah it's unfortunate. Industrialized warfare is one of the worst things ever created. So what? Should we give up? 100% is not reachable but 80% is doable. Maybe we can make up for it in some other area.

>>22044766
>it’s all a LE LIE
Such boring meaningless analysis pushed by pseuds in their mid 20s. Foreigners no doubt.

>>22045564
Do you judge everything by how boring it is? Yes, it's an idea as old as time. Everyone from Plato to Gramsci has postulated something like it. What the fuck is your point? Fucking hell, you have to be a woman or something.

>>22045557
I’m not really asking for an answer. I don’t have one. I don’t expect you to have one. I suppose I’m just challenging your prescriptions because I think there are things you haven’t considered and they extend beyond just warfare. People build businesses from computer screens and we have Artificial Intelligence writing poems. What is left for the human creature in a world like that? This is why I fail to see a positive outcome and why I think it’s sort of silly to talk about banning pornography and retiring government employees.

>>22044756
>The End of History is still correct in that no new system has arisen that is more prosperous than liberal democracy.

>>22045579
Well, AI has been able to beat all humans at chess for a while now. People still play chess. In fact, even the people with low and mediocre ELO ratings still play chess. You're catastrophizing. And again - if we had an effective autocracy, it would have quite a few options for controlling how any of these technologies actually develop.

>>22045597
I don’t know how the history of modern China can appear as anything other than formerly communist China gradually reforming into a liberal modern country. What is China if not feudalism where the aristocrats are party members and the peasants are industrial workers? Do you really believe Chinese people find their lives that much better simply because they don’t have to look at blacks and transsexuals as much?

>>22043936
>The west is le crumbling
Even though the west is shittier than in the past it’s still 10x better than whatever BRICS shithole you’re from.

>>22044388
seriously, are people really so scared to talk about this topic, which is irrefutable?
the american lettered agencies are the sole reason legacy democratic institutions are still around

>>22045605
But man isn’t a chess playing animal and the question is not whether the actions are still done but whether they’re deprived of their essential meaning. This is actually what the end of history really means. Things still happen, but they’re deprived of real meaning. It’s the difference between the Battle of Agincourt and a re-enactment of the Battle of Agincourt, or rather the Battle of Agincourt and the War in Ukraine. Look at the current war in Ukraine. Surely, you’ve seen the videos of drones dropping grenades on soldiers. You tell me if you see anything meaningful, purposeful, or dignified there, on either side. And which autocracy is going to suppress the development of advanced weaponry, or give their people meaningful work in spite of GDP growth? This just seems like a fantasy to me.

>>22045607
you think china is a liberal country?

>>22045639
atheism is just performatism (the real one, ie performativity, not the redefition by the atheists in the 90s).
chinese civil servants say they are marxists, therefore they are so, and thus part of the secular enlightenment crowd

>>22045634
There's a ton of shit in the economy right now that's not GDP-efficient - from DEI shit, to hopelessly outdated educational institutions to government committees that have existed forever and have done fuck all. There is some slack when it comes to GDP, we just need to use it where it matters. I should also point out that man isn't really a fighting animal either if you want to stick to strict definitions. Most human fighting back in the monkey days was non-lethal since we lack the physiology for inflicting serious damage. It's why it's so (relatively) easy for us to kill each other now - we don't have an instinct that prevents accidental killings unlike for example wolves and snakes.

>>22045046
Women will fuck anyone if social pressure tells them to. Isaac Newton, Herbert Spencer, Immanuel Kant, Nikola Tesla and Leonardo Da Vinci were celibate and died virgins. Women do not make "eugenic" choices.

>>22044710
Endless taxes to fund a plutocratic war machine with the threat of jail if I don’t pay them so they can instigate perpetual warfare

>>22045621
It’s a third rail topic, nobody wants to acknowledge, or study in depth the fact that the national defense bureaucracy, which is allied with the conglomerated corporate world, is completely out of control.

>>22045731
>the national defense bureaucracy
I mean... I'd say it's more the State Department

>>22045046
Yeah, Rome. Wonder what happened as it went along...

>>22044776
>The Roman empire existed in some form for almost 1000 years.
No it didn't.

>>22045214
Based, keep up the truth to power

>>22045203
>Liberal democracies are here to stay and won't go anywhere soon.
i have some experience with material science and one thing i've noticed is that objects which have incredible stiffness don't slowly crack or damage, instead, they instantly shatter with almost no warning

just food for thought

>>22044601
A bank went bankrupt, Switzerland has fallen

>>22045209
I suppose it's high time for me to put an end to that debate, them.

>>22045875
You’re a college student or an office worker. You dabble in student portals or spreadsheets and not artillery.

>>22045639
Liberalizing. Yes. You don’t?

>>22045671
If we’re even talking about GDP efficiency we’re so far from what is actually essential that it really reinforces a sense of hopelessness in my mind. The close connection between economy size and military power and both of those with technological power speaks to how bad of a situation we are really in.

>>22045877
You know interestingly enough Napoleon was also a Mathematical genius, which few people know.

>>22045816
I think the counter-argument is that, as another anon mentioned higher up in the thread, what we call "liberal democracy" is not stiff at all but highly capable of cannibalizing its alternatives then grafting bits and pieces of them onto itself. Less of a big stiff crystal lattice and more of a horrifying slime mold.
>>22045877
I was shitposting, but what's hilarious is that I am literally an active-duty naval officer and yet you are still correct. The American military juggernaut runs on powerpoint.

>>22045890
You're the one who brought up GDP. Also it remains to be seen how much military capabilities actually track GDP. It's possible that there are diminishing returns or if it's bottlenecked by other variables.

>>22045901
More depressing than hilarious, but yeah. You’re better equipped than most to understand that power lies in surface to air missiles and not people.

>>22045915
It seems pretty obvious that they do correlate with GDP as more industry or more money means more firepower. But I mentioned it for that reason. It seems like a paradigm we’re locked into. Nobody can slow industrialization or technologicization, let alone stop it completely, without expecting to be militarily dominated.

>>22046045
They do correlate yes, but we don't know to what extent. I.e. the correlation might drop off at a certain point. The economy is also more dependent on security than the other way around. I do agree that they'll continue to reason along the lines you're suggesting though yeah.

>>22046077
To huge extent. How is this not obvious? We’ve just spent over a year repelling a Russian invasion by aiding the UkrInians simply with weapons systems and funding.

>>22046142
I'm not saying it's not to a huge extent, but I don't think the correlation is infinite. For example IQ correlates with success until roughly the 130s. Something similar is probably true for this, just at a different place in the curve. Also I have doubts about how cost-effective some of these weapons are 2bh.

>>22044766
>What capitalism? The little guy still gets fucked over at the expense of big landed interests.
That IS capitalism. Capital is an exponential force that always trends towards concentration and magnification.

there is so much great art that can be produced from this perspective of being at the end of history in the 21st century, trapped in a cosmopolitan world, smothered by mundanity and material routine, and no one wants to make it. all art today is just about how much of a victim everyone is and how we need more freedom and progress

>>>/vg/429688447
Artificial Academy 2 General /aa2g/ #1279
Who Framed /aa2g/? Edition

Welcome, this general is for the discussion of ILLUSION's Artificial Academy 2.

COPY ERROR MESSAGES WITH CTRL+C, PASTE THEM WITH CTRL+V INTO GOOGLE TRANSLATE. JUST CLICK THE WINDOW AND PRESS CTRL + C, IT WORKS.

>Downloads:
/aa2g/ Pre-Installed Game, AA2Mini: https://tsukiyo.me/AAA/AA2MiniPPX.xml
AAUnlimited updates: https://github.com/aa2g/AA2Unlimited/releases
Anon's Modded Pre-Install: https://pastebin.com/42JS3q6E

>Information:
AA2Mini Install Guide:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vS8Ap6CrmSNXRsKG9jsIMqHYuHM3Cfs5qE5nX6iIgfzLlcWnmiwzmOrp27ytEMX03lFNRR7U5UXJalA/pub
General FAQ:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200216045726/https://pastebin.com/bhrA6iGx
AAU Guide and Resources (Modules, Tans, Props, Poses, and More):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17qb1X0oOdMKU4OIDp8AfFdLtl5y_4jeOOQfPQ2F-PKQ/edit#gid=0

>Character Cards [Database], now with a list of every NonOC in the megas:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1niC6g-Xd2a2yaY98NBFdAXnURi4ly2-lKty69rkQbJ0/edit#gid=2085826690
https://db.bepis.moe/aa2/

>Mods & More:
Mods for AAU/AA2Mini (ppx format, the mediafire has everything):
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/vwrmdohus4vhh/Mods
/aa2g/ Modding Reference Guide (Slot lists for Hair/Clothes/Faces, List Guides, and More):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gwmoVpKuSuF0PtEPLEB17eK_dexPaKU106ShZEpBLhg/edit#gid=1751233129
Booru: https://aau.booru.org

>HELP! I have a Nvidia card and my game crashes on startup!
Try the dgVoodoo option in the new win10fix settings.
Alternative: Update your AAU and see if it happens again. If so, disable win10fix, enable wined3d and software vertex processing.
>HELP! Required Windows 11 update broke things!
winkey+R -> ms-settings:developers -> Terminal=Windows Console Host

Previous Thread:
>>>/vg/428858839

>we will live in a miserable time and you WILL enjoy it
woah... so this is the end goal of human history...

>>22044710
In the preschool classroom for starters...

>>22045044
>the USA were built by bourgeois tax evaders, those people will never ever give birth to any dictator.
They may have founded the Republic but they didn't "build" the country

>>22045189
ok boomer

>>22045197
good post.

there isn't a single sound argument in this entire thread supporting fukuyama's thesis

>>22046045
>>22045915
>>22045901
>war is logistics... it's so over...
this is by far the least surprising or novel feature of modernity
It also doesn't mean anything for the resilience of modernity, it just very directly links the power of governments to economic forces, which is a different question altogether

>>22045197
>feudal middle class
this isn't exactly correct. the de-facto feudal middle class was the clergy. The West has handed power over to the feudal lower class which schismed into bougies and proles, but they are all still characteristically serfs.
Today's society is an entirely civic society, and that's a more precise characterization than yours

>>22045214
>someone please explain what this "two weeks" meme is and why it's being used as if it has any sort of significance
4chan culture used to be divided between "it's happening" and "nothing ever happens" camps. this was a bit more politics-agnostic and less combative dynamic than you see now, but it was still a normalfag vs. schizo battle same as today.
The pandemic completely BTFOed the "nothing ever happens" gang so the new trend became saying "two more weeks" in order to mock your ideological opponents for being impotent, it started when "two weeks to stop the spread" turned into an indefinite lockdown and everyone spammed "just two more weeks", then it was weaponized against trumpfags when he lost the 2020 election and some of them coped by saying the election would be declared illegitimate in just a few more days
Anyways, at this point "two more weeks" again just means "nothing ever happens" even though that entire concept has been irrevocably annihilated which is why the seething passive aggressive bottom boys saying "two more weeks" are so insistent and annoying

>>22047658
yeah no shit
libdems aren't actually rational or rationalists, they're fundamentally rationalizers

>>22045197
>This is what we’ve been dealing with since the revolutions of the 18th century
Not really. There's a pretty big gap between the now deceased Anglo-Liberalism of the 1920s and the ruling Judeo-Bolshevisim of today.

And the Judeo-Bolsheviks absolutely try to justify their rule, and Americans don't believe it. Nobody wants to send Americans out to go die in Russia or Iran or wherever for the sake of fags and JP Morgan, and these activities are not justified by "freedom" or "liberty" or whatever.

>>22047729
>There's a pretty big gap between the now deceased Anglo-Liberalism of the 1920s and the ruling Judeo-Bolshevisim of today.
there is no gap at all, and this is the logical conclusion of that system
The only thing jews did was come into the power structure established by anglo-germanic elites, and that process started well before the 1920s by the way lmao

>>22045856
Switzerland is nothing but a bank in disguise.

>>22047729
What is it with extremely online theorists and their constant stream of turgid neologisms

>>22043936
Maybe there's a middle ground between "neoliberal techno-capitalism has triumphed and the West is the teleological endpoint of human civilization" and "liberalism is a festering disease that is hollowing out society from the inside". Maybe it's more complex than that don't you think? People lack nuance.

>>22047843
it's not so much a midpoint as it is the case that both are true and that human civilization is overgrown and beginning to experience the rot it deserves

>>22047843
so in your own words how would you describe this middle gruond?

>>22047768
Not really. Every core tenet of ZOG is in complete contradiction with basic Liberal principles. No one elected Soros or Epstein, both of whom exist due to illegibility. I mean that literally, if Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau, etc had their way neither Soros nor Epstein would be able to make a dime. The entire idea of an ethnic mafia, more specifically a non-Christian one, was abhorrent to Liberal thinkers. ZOG's entire gimmick has been catabolizing the state built up by Liberalism, and the entire point of Liberalism is creating a massive bureaucratic state. Liberals loved the rule of law and judicial proceduralism, ZOG is all about using the threat of adhoc political oppression to keep people in line. Liberals were adamant about the necessity of preventing media centralization, ZOG only does the two-party gimmick because it's good for corralling dumbfucks.

If you want to keep doing the moldbug bit about how Christianity naturally leads to gay nigger communism, go ahead, it's no skin off my bones, but don't get upset when people call you out on not knowing what you're talking about.

>>22047860
Based on purely thermodynamical and ecological factors I would tend to think that you are right. The political and historical ramifications are really complex to pin down though.

>>22047862
I'm not insightful enough to sum up the total cutural and socio-economical zeitgeist of the early 21st century in a few witty sentences. If I had to try I would say : what goes up, must come down.

>>22047768
>we must reject judaism and RETVRN to JVPITER
I agree.

>>22043936
>society is crumbling!
STOP reading internet outrage porn and go outside faggot

>>22047883
how would you describe a crumbling society?

>>22047801
ZOG/Hitlerian jewscaping is just the placeholder they use to fill the massive gap that is foundation of their understanding of modern politics and capitalism

>>22047865
>MUH ZOG
Give it a break already and read some theory outside of your /pol/tard echo chambers

>>22047865
>rule of law is when you undermine literally your entire society in order to take privileges from the landholding nobility and give them to yourself
One of the first things ever done by a liberal government was the Plantation of Ireland, you fucking retard
They replaced the no-good outdated barbaric feudal structure of the local Irish with a very epic civilized English order which primarily made everybody on the island less equal and free, but at least it enriched the governors. The Whigs were very proud of this project.
FROM THE VERY START it was all about doing whatever you wanted, using social conventions when it benefited you, and tearing them down / inverting / perverting them when they got in your way. This is not a result of Christianity and actually that process represented a defeat-in-detail of Christianity across the continent

>>22047894
So what's you're cope about how Chomspky being on the Epstein plane with his coethnics was ackshyuyually in the service to global Communist revolution?

>>22047899
Oh, you're one of those "the irish are poc" tankies. Nevermind, keep up the good work piling dirt onto Marx's coffin.

>>22043936
I think you can take issue with Fukuyama's argument on a number of levels, but you touch on what might be the most important point if you're going to accept the whole Hegelian set up. The third part of The End of History is Fukuyama attempting to causally connect the Industrial Revolution and its effects to an appetite for liberal ("self-") government.
>As people become wealthier, more cosmopolitan, and better educated, they demand not simply more wealth but recognition of their status. It is this completely non-economic, non-material drive that can explain why people in Spain, Portugal, South Korea, Taiwan, and the People’s Republic of China have all expressed a demand not just for market economics but for free governments by and for the people as well.

There are a number of problems with his explanation, the first being the very real question of whether or not the structure and practice of government in the Western world actually constitutes self-government as it was theorized by the various thinkers of the liberal tradition earlier in history. Is casting a vote every couple years really a sufficient condition for self-government? Questions of scale and viewpoint diversity beg to be asked, and Fukuyama doesn't discuss them in the book in any acceptable way. There's another important question about the socialization of people now that that job is primarily the responsibility of the state apparatus, which obviously has a vested interest in perpetuating itself, and that question doesn't have to devolve into conspiracy theories about Jews even if it usually does.

As an aside that's talked about every time Fukuyama is brought up, contemporary China and its potential rise to status as a global superpower capable of establishing a long-distance sphere of influence a-la the United States does not bode well for Fukuyama's theory.

>>22047917
>the very real question of whether or not the structure and practice of government in the Western world actually constitutes self-government as it was theorized by the various thinkers of the liberal tradition
As the other anon pointed out, the US hasn't been a Liberal state for almost a century. It's an Anti-Fascist military bureaucracy run by a Jewish cabal. Any attempt at analyzing the US as a Liberal state falls flat because it just isn't a Liberal state. So, the US has actually (according to Fukuyama's whiggism) regressed and isn't moving towards the End of History but is in fact moving away from it. This isn't even touching on China, or Russia or Iran, all three of which are themselves increasingly Illiberal states.

There's an irony here in that Fukuyama is right about people wanting Liberalism in as much as it frees them from feudalism or ethnic mafias, but that's not really what anyone is getting.

>>22047917
>contemporary China and its potential rise to status as a global superpower capable of establishing a long-distance sphere of influence a-la the United States does not bode well for Fukuyama's theory.
oh but that doesn't count, anon! some of the genius political scientists ITT are saying that china was in fact a liberal country all along

>>22047900
Did it ever occur to you that it’s possible to understand power elites, financial networks, and the idea of blackmail beyond your made up race theories? Jew baiting is just a meme and always has been

>>22047928
There's zero point in taking Marxists seriously, to the point where doing so might as well count as ironic shitposting.

>>22047927
>ethnic mafias
The extent that wiggernats go to avoid just naming porky and understanding power structures is astonishing

>>22047908
>tankie
you're retarded

>>22047927
the united states is the most fundamentally liberal and constitutionalist country on the planet which is why it can't fix problems that require you to treat entire demographics like the trash they are
If you want to "purge" the "jewish elite" you aren't liberal, but if you want people to be free, you are a liberal and cannot have ill wishes towards jews who legitimately attained their positions. Sorry.

>>22047953
But anon if we just gassed all the Jews Wall Street and all of financial capitalism along with the CIA and the rest of the federal government will be suddenly based!

look at this, now
>>22047927
>>22047953

how can you have two completely opposite views on something which is supposed to be a concrete fact?
is the US a liberal country or isn't it?

>>22044865
I don't have indoor plumbing either.

>>22047927
I think the immense complexity and opacity of the real decision-making process in the US government combined with the relative helplessness of people to understand it (while they suffer a real decline in at least economic terms) lends itself to conspiracy theories. I'm not saying that you're absolutely wrong, I don't claim to know, but I think you'd have to be pretty unhinged to place a great deal of stock in your assessment.

What does seem to be the case (in the US) from my vantage point is that a great deal of people seem to be suffering in many different ways while a small group of wealthy have not suffered in the least, and whose position has only improved. This is independent of who we vote into the only position that appears to have any real power every four years (as Congress suffers from single-digit approval ratings), and neither of our major political parties seem to have any cognizance at all on the issue as they repeatedly show themselves to be completely out-of-touch in a way that is "let them eat cake" levels of mind-boggling. This is the thrust of why I doubt whether what we have today constitutes self-government in any meaningful way.

>>22047927
>>22047917
>America isn't liberal
I don't know how you fags can expect people to engage with your paragraphs when you say something so utterly stupid and disqualifying. It's just nonsense. You don't know what you're talking about, why talk at all?

>>22047927
Jewish cabal but like 80 to 90 percent of billionaires are of white european descent
>b-but jews have key positions on companies and cnn, i saw it on a pol chart

>>22047992
calm down simon

>>22047981
That's fine you stupid faggot, because I wouldn't expect someone with such a poor capacity for reading comprehension to engage with my paragraphs. I'm just hinting at, among other examples, an argument Rousseau brought up more than 250 years ago.

>>22043936
I challenge you to name ONE that IS crumbling. Go ahead.

>>22044548
>refuted
You are dumb lol

>>22047998
I know you are baiting but its because of retards like you that the world will never improve
>its the jews fault
>like the orthodox jews that have 10 children and live in poor decadent areas or the mllions of middle class and poor jews?
>no, its actually the rich jews that destroy white countries
>so you are saying that when you achieve a certain level of wealth you can impact countries negatively? Sounds like no one should be allowed to have that much wealth
>no white billionaires are actually okay

>>22044548
>Roman Empire will never collapse
>British Empire will never collapse
>American Empire will never collapse

>>22044548
>no one has convincingly refuted the idea that liberal democracy will die any time soon.
but that wasn't the argument in the book anon

>>22047883
>>22048007
in canada normal people have been driven to using failing overburdened food banks
bread lines meant heckin societies were failing when those societies were on another continent with another political system, now when it's you they don't mean anything and those people were dumb poorfags anyways

>>22048007
australia
man, that was hard

>>22043936
I said it in previous Fukuyama thread and I will keep saying it again

I have no interest in listening to Fuckuyama or his defenders if they are not willing to talk about the demographics and decline of white population. White people are the only ones capable of maintaining democracy. once white people become minority in their own countries the non whites will use the system against them and that will be the end of democracy.

>>22048019
You see anon, the difference is that in a western liberal country anyone can become rich if they're smart and hardworking.

So yes, objectively, breadlines exist, but it's only because those people are stupid and lazy. If they weren't stupid and lazy they'd have invented Amazon or some shit and be sitting on their yatchs right now.

In Soviet Russia breadlines were an example of the system failing normal people. In Canada breadlines are an example of stupid, useless deplorable failing the system, which is the best system we've got and have ever had.

>>22048034
>breadlines exist, but

>>22048034
>in a western liberal country anyone can become rich if they're smart and hardworking.
LOL

>>22047917
I think you're just plainly wrong about this. It is so patently obvious that the more educated and cosmopolitan that a population becomes the more liberal they become. It might be harder to consider if you're already from the West but those of us from underdeveloped countries and struggling cultures can see how easily our populations become liberalized the moment you introduce technology like the Internet and urban economic development. These growing liberal tendencies are evident all around the world in the youth who follow the exact same mass culture that spreads to them through social media. Countries like Saudi Arabia and the UAE are becoming liberalized with unfathomable ease, all it took was some propaganda campaigns and introduction of Western consumerism.

The only discrepancy with Fukuyama's argument is the democratic component. People are absolutely going to become liberalized once their country develops, it's an observable fact, you can see it in every country. But that doesn't mean they will support democracy. You don't need democracy to be liberal and you don't need liberalism to be democratic. Democracy is the one thing that will undoubtedly lose favor in the 21st century because it was never popular throughout history anyways.

>>22048034
based
hyperbased retard if posted unironically

>>22048059
>People are absolutely going to become liberalized once their country develops, it's an observable fact, you can see it in every country.
>>22045597
>>22045597
>>22045597

>>22044590
You spend 20% more on food than you did last year.

>>22045001
Based if true

Why are there so many neolib shills on this board?

Do these people really think that a system with destroyed family and community, rising mental illness and dissatisfied men is sustainable in long term?

>>22048059
>the more educated and cosmopolitan that a population becomes the more liberal they become
you have it backwards, the more liberal a population becomes the more they adopt cosmopolitan aesthetics and seek out liberal education

>>22045233
It's going to happen within this century and it will be obvious within the next 30 years

>>22048079
What exactly do you think Chinese society is like? Do you think they don't have sexual promiscuity, rampant consumerism, feelings of individuality, transgenders? They have all those things. The younger people in China are hardly any different in character from young people you'd find in any other developed country. The only difference is that they're socialists. They still deem themselves democratic too.

>>22045046
This guy gets it. It's not crumbling. It's just not taking us with it while it rises. Realizing that I'm some middle peasant pisspants has been a painful but necessary process.

>>22046288
America was capitalist back in the 50s when a guy working at a gas station couldn support a wife and kids.

>>22048084
The future is female chud. In twenty years those men will either be dead, in prison, or have transitioned to a non toxic non binary eunich and working fulfilling socially conscious jobs in an Amazon fulfillment center or HR department.

>>22048096
>liberalism is sexual promiscuity
are you serious

>>22045284
>For one thing, an autocracy allows for decisive, transformative action
>Actually very few autocrats had the level of power that most moderns seem to think they did
Which one is it?

>>22048123
>public sexual promiscuity is not an obvious fucking trait of liberal societies actively promoted by liberal elites themselves
Are you serious?

>>22045046
>I am fine so everything is fine
Lmao at normie ignorance

>>22048059
I don't understand your post. The "democratic component" is exactly what I'm referring to when I say self-government. Self-governance is one of the major foundational elements of liberalism as a tradition, all the way back to Hobbes, and today the expression of self-governance is unanimously democratic. Can you explain to me in what way people from your country or any other become "liberalized" via exposure to technology and urban economic development without becoming "democratic," or how you don't need democracy to be liberal?

And the dominance of a culture or trend of its adoption is not evidence of the inevitability or deterministic character of that dominance or trend.
>Whereas Socialism, and even capitalism in a more grudging way, have said to people ‘I offer you a good time,’ Hitler has said to them ‘I offer you struggle, danger and death,’ and as a result a whole nation flings itself at his feet.

>>22047883
I live in the mid-west, anon, it's awful outside. Crackheads everywhere.

>>22047953
All it takes is an activist court and that all goes away very fast. They already got Kentanji Brown Jackson up there.
Heck half of the originalists on the court can’t be bothered to help the rights of the little guy from their gated communities.

>>22048128
There have been many times and places in history where the government was premodern despotism and we would consider it barbaric and yet there was shitloads of sexual promiscuity. It's the exception to the rule but it did happen. Ancient Mesopotamia is the best example of it
Those places weren't liberal by any description and fluctuated between theocracy and absolute monarchy

>>22045203
People will not be able to enjoy those comfort with rising inflation and the modern entertainment sucks so bread and circuses won't work anymore

>>22047992
>>22048011
(((white european)))

>>22045046
>it just keeps getting better in the west - not for all, but for most, and that is what really matters
it's getting better for increasingly few. Continue the Rome example from there, uh oh

>>22048139
When people develop ideals of freedom and individuality they tend to express it by becoming sexually promiscious. It's almost like there's a word to describe these tendencies of free expression, perhaps that word is a namesake of a particular ideology too? I'm not saying promiscuity only happens in liberal countries but in modern times there is a certain set of ideals that clearly influences people to support things like sexual libertinism. Even Dubai is rampant with prostitution, would we not consider those people somewhat liberalized?

>>22048101
even as recently as the 1980s. my parents migrated to the west and without speaking fluent english they were able to secure "entry level" jobs in an automotive factory on the production line/upholstery. they were paid about $25/hour back then, when everything was 4x cheaper. $25/hour in 1985 is worth about $80/hour now.
fast forward to 2023 and my country doesn't even have a car production industry anymore. those jobs are gone and everybody is becoming poorer by the week, literally by the week, because the elite political class is bleeding the citizenry dry of everything they have and this is somehow my fault for apparently being an incel? what the hell?

>>22048084
They think if they spout some bullshit and say the word “theory” a few more times they will be the next Christopher Hitchens

>>22048097
>It's not crumbling. It's just not taking us with it while it rises.
The only people whose lives are improving are the immigrants from South America and Africa, because it's basically impossible to be any lower than they were before they immigrated.

i honestly cannot tell apart the shill/shitposts from serious posts in this thread

>>22048137
You don't understand.
The Constitution championed queer bodies from the very start. It did this because it was based on liberal principles. Therefore the original intent of the constitution was to deify queer poc bodies and smash the patriarchy, because it was liberal, and the liberalism of its time couldn't live up to the essence of liberalism's timeless mission.
In the same way, today, it is fundamentally constitutional to go against the idea that sex is for the reproduction of the nuclear family and the patriarchal ideology of romantic love. Its a means for workers to take the means of production into their own hands here and now to abolish the distinction between the private sphere and the public, between work and pleasure and self expression. To break down the walls of lily white christian suburbia into a brave new world of pleasure rebellion and freedom.
Yes it is true what they say about us We are gonna groom all your daughters to be whores and your sons to be brave crack-using nympho trans sex workers.

>>22048134
Saudi Arabia is a good example because it's about as un-democratic as you could possibly get but the people are still becoming ostensibly liberal. The country is becoming very cosmopolitan, most people now speak English, they are utterly obsessed with Western consumerism to the point where even eating at McDonald's is seen as a sign of civility. Women wear less, community is less important, and most importantly this is all happening at the expense of religion as they put individuality above Islam now. These tendencies can be all defined as liberal, but the country is not democratic. You don't need democracy to facilitate these behaviors because ultimately the world is not divided between liberal vs. illiberal as the West propagandized in order to outline its own road map towards dominance. The world right now is a cosmopolitan blob where most people will end up living the same way no matter what their cultures say or what their governments believe. As long as the most powerful countries, which are all liberal democracies, can do steady business with all these other countries then there's really no threat of war or collapse. China will have its socialist parades and America will have its pride parades, but all Chinese and Americans will be drinking Coca-Cola and use TikTok all the same.

>>22048149
perhaps you'd like to show us some of these examples of state-sponsored sexual promiscuity by the chinese government

FASCISM WILL BE THE FINAL MOVEMENT

A RETURN FASCISM, CLIMATE CRISIS INSPIRED FASCISM WILL BE THE LAST MOVEMENT FROM THE GLOBAL CORPSE

YOU CANT REFUTE THIS

>>22048170
Maybe Saudi Arabia is becoming more liberal because it's en vogue and they aren't stupid and noticed too? You know these people travel to Europe too, to America. They have TVs, Tik Tok, of course some things they will implement.

>>22048171
It's not sponsored by the state, my point is that since young Chinese live in a highly developed cosmopolitan society they adopt increasingly liberal behaviors like different attitudes towards sex and family. This naturally happens to any population raised in this environment. The only reason it's a little less pronounces in China is because they ban Western social media, arguably the most intelligent policy of any state in the 21st century. But give it time, it won't be long before things like LGBT activism and internet prostitution take off in China under the guise of freedom and liberation, both beliefs being core to socialism.

>>22044574
>Below pre-2008 interest rates = collapse of the West

Let me guess, the only way to survive the downfall is to invest in your favourite brand of online monopoly money whose price is currently plummeting through the floor.
Zoomers are a disease.

>>22048184
The lgbtq movement arose from societal ideas that spread and became reality in Western culture alone. My prognostics is that's not going to happen.

As a Bengali why I'm supposed to be against Liberalism.

>>22048190
It happens in every other country. There are young people around the globe who use English pronouns to describe themselves because their native cultures are irreconcilable with gender ideology and don't have masculine/feminine pronouns. There's no reason to believe China won't eventually go down the same route even if it takes a while. And LGBT is just one component of liberal imperialism, there are many other behaviors which can take form regardless.

>>22048189
>your favourite brand of online monopoly money
But enough about the US dollar...

>LGBTQ++ movements happen in every country
americans are so brainwashed it's fucking unreal, holy shit

>>22048189
on an unrelated note, interest rates must exceed de-facto inflation in order to curb it

>>22047992
exactly

>>22048205
This is because of social media and it's en vogue. Anyone, globally, who had a natural tendency towards homosexuality will adopt Western lgbtq culture. This hasn't anything to do with how cosmopolitan or developped a society is. Even a savage who somehow came to the posession of a smartphone, who happened to be gay, would give the same neuronal response.

>>22048134
>>Whereas Socialism, and even capitalism in a more grudging way, have said to people ‘I offer you a good time,’ Hitler has said to them ‘I offer you struggle, danger and death,’ and as a result a whole nation flings itself at his feet.
Where is this quote from?

>>22048215
Social media is a weapon of liberal imperialism, it's the greatest asset of the West right now, you can't just pretend like social media is distinct from liberal democracy when it's controlled by liberal elites from the West

>>22048156
>The only people whose lives are improving are the immigrants from South America and Africa
The irony is it will be those people who hold on to "Classical Liberal" values and try to keep America from becoming a totalitarian waste.
t. my girlfriend is the child of a West African immigrant family and she's very much a "Classical" Liberal

>>22048262
Social media is an asset that fulfills the needs of a population. People post, people like. Of course, social media is full of trash, like people doing stupid things. But what does this have to do with liberal imperialism? Do you mean the advertisements? Do you mean political campaigns led by the political parties? This is ramble. Liberal imperialism was the Congo Congress in the year 1870, when the European powers colonized Africa, during that time a rural nation full of autists, to bring them "progress". That time has ended. The influence of the West on other nations, outside of the Western nations, is cultural, is economic, but the other countries excert this same influence on the West in perhaps smaller sums but nevertheless. So there's no such thing like liberal imperialism. It's one of those terms that point towards a fiction. The term is too broad. You haven't even pointed towards a country.

>>22048262
>Social media is a weapon of liberal imperialism, it's the greatest asset of the West right now
can you stop saying "the west" and just start saying "the US" instead, because that's what you actually mean

>>22048288
I was going to respond to this genuinely but you're just a moron. "Liberal imperialism doesn't exist" fuck off lmao

>>22044388
>praetorian guard of the Deep State
So just (((who))) comprises this oddly unclearly-named group that rules the United States? Any chance their control tightened dramatically after say ... oh ... 1913?

>>22048170
What country are you from? I see what you're saying, but I'm talking about Francis Fukuyama and his book here. His argument might be that we should expect Saudi Arabia to embrace liberal values (and democratic) governance as it becomes more wealthy and more educated, because (to be only a little facetious) it is the "correct" system.

Sexual profligacy and consumerism are not necessarily liberal values (though obviously they are generally widespread in liberal nations as opposed to illiberal ones). Individualism is a liberal value but how far that goes, and whether it necessitates a breakdown in community values and religiosity is another question (usually answered in the negative by liberal philosophers that extol the value of religion and community).

The system of social "values" that you see in nations like the US was not necessarily determined by virtue of adherence to liberal principles. I think it's just as likely they were the result of the social consequences of technological advances that other nations did not receive as quickly, and/or of long economic processes that select for what is profitable and produce disadvantageous situations for those that choose to uphold tradition restraints, and/or something else. Whatever it is, it is obviously an immensely complex process that determines adherence to traditional values or the introduction and propagation of new values, and it is certainly not strictly (or necessarily) a liberal thing at all. Ask any feminist or tranny what she thought about the liberal West in the 19th or 20th century.

>>22048296
It doesn't exist because colonialism is over. They're gone. Maybe it is liberal, maybe it is imperialism, but not both, kek (whatever you are talking about). Seethe.

>>22048256
orwell's review of mein kampf, best thing he ever wrote

>>22048301
> Saudi Arabia to embrace liberal values (and democratic) governance as it becomes more wealthy and more educated, because (to be only a little facetious) it is the "correct" system.
Saudi Arabia has been civilized for longer than Europe or at least Northern Europe. So this line obviously is full of shit. Arabia would be the most progressive nation in the world, they should be hundreds if not thousands of years ahead of Scandinavia following this logic.

>>22047894
Thanks for the tip, rebbe.

>>22047898
Your riposte is predictable as always Chaim.

>>22048320
That's what I've been arguing the whole time anon, keep up, though to play devil's advocate I imagine in general people in Europe are more educated

>>22048313
Wow I didn't know he reviewed Mein Kampf! Cool. Thanks man.

Speaking of, if a candidate for president came out right now and said "I promise you, my fellow Americans, an inferno, an immense whirlwind of blood, fire, and rage. I promise you I will light the wick that sets this nation afire" or something similar, basically just came right out and honestly said "this is going to be extremely painful for you guys, I'm going to make your lives hell, but I'm going to give them meaning again" do you think he would be popular or no?

>>22048330
>>22048341
I can smell the glow on your posts, you fucks

>>22048349
They aren't. I've talked with quite a lot of these "professors" and the physical discourse is practically the same discourse as it is online I tell you. No matter what shithole in Western Europe you situate yourself in, as long as it is cosmopolitan, it's the same shitty discourse about equality, about genders, about the economy everywhere. Literally the same arguments, literally the same discussions, although, I admit, the Europeans are far less obsessed with race. It's as if race doesn't exist basically, not even it's inexistence is existant, and the historicity, when the professors talk about the old times, goes further back than 1850.

>>22048357
Maybe something like, "Americans, I see your pain and I understand it. The establishment in Washington is composed of two parties that seek only to aggrandize themselves at every opportunity, and they both do so by bleeding you dry. You increasingly live on credit for survival, and the American Dream of home ownership is farther away than it's ever been in our history. These verminous cretins and their ilk produce nothing and steal the product of your labor, leaving you indigent and angry. And if things go bad in the country, they'll up and leave with foreign passports they bought with your money. Because they don't care about this nation. They are rootless cosmopolitans, an international clique that cares only about money and how much they can make by infesting the organs of our once-great nation. If you elect me I can't promise you that our GDP will go up, or that I will look after what people call the human rights of trannies and other subhumans. On the contrary, this de-lousing necessitates a profound change in our economic and political organization, and it won't be easy. It will get much worse before it will get better. But I can promise you that with every bone in my body I will fight to rid our great nation of these parasites, and I will make them pay for their crimes."

>>22048357
>"this is going to be extremely painful for you
that sounds so familiar...

>>22048358

>>22048209
"Hyperinflation will happen any day now because my shallow libertarian understanding of economics cannot comprehend how central banks and interest rates work."

Clearly the only sensible financial strategy is to spend your life savings on buying dips from people who definitely aren't trying to scam you so that you can scam someone else before the price tanks even further.

>>22048389
I'm not alphabet agency
I hate the US government they're bad
I hate the US government they're bad
No more cultural imperialism
No more cultural imperialism
See?

>>22048384
That would be incredible. Goddamn. THOSE would be the words of a modern Caesar. People really do just want to put their stock in a great, competent (or at least competent-seeming) leader. Or at least I do. I keep looking for one.

>>22043936
there is no "serious" answer anon

Spengler was right. history has no meaning

only life has meaning

>>22048397
>cultural imperialism
Gay term created and Trannies and Brownoids

>>22048384

>>22048408
Yes
"Bootlicker" is a compliment.

>>22048396
Have you seen the prices of things lately?

I come from Brownoids who were illiterate peasants and had zero rights until their created a secular liberal democracy and now me and my family live fairly well off so yes I do enjoy the fruits of Liberalism and no I don't care about muh trannies or whatever

>>22048417
>I am a proud golem!
you could have left it at "I come from brownoids" and this would have gone without saying

>>22048396
can't have a recession if the government changes the official definition of a recession

>>22048402
Yeah, something along those lines would probably sweep an election. It's what Trump tried to tap into but he wasn't the right person (and a horrible candidate for other reasons) and he won. Whites, latinos, hell even blacks would vote for it.

>>22048447
>It's what Trump tried to tap into but he wasn't the right person (and a horrible candidate for other reasons) and he won. Whites, latinos, hell even blacks would vote for it.

Yeah, exactly. Trump saw his little opening and he took it. Now it's obvious how ripe the nation is for a master, a lord, a king, a father-figure for the masses.

>>22045882
the fact that they are attempting to achieve a communist society says to me "no, not really"
their current liberalisation is just a means to an end to achieve enough capital so they move on to the next step

>>22048362
>as long as it is cosmopolitan, it's the same shitty discourse about equality, about genders, about the economy everywhere
This is what I'm trying to argue but for every developed country. Half of that is deliberate imperialism from the West, the other half is due to the material conditions of those countries giving rise to liberal populations.

>>22048301
I live in America but my original country is Muslim. Whatever the case I do not believe that the tendencies of liberalism are uniquely Western. It's very complex and we could cover so much ground about this topic but I really believe that once a country becomes urban and educated you inherently get a ton of people embracing individuality and demanding participation in governance. I fundamentally agree with Fukuyama on this. I have witnessed it happen to my own people.

>>22048487
Your country is a province of America. There were plenty of non liberal cities in the past.

>>22045046
The issue is that there's more and more "losers". Most young people can't expect to outright own a home until their 40s, the share of incels also keeps growing, the lowest estimates put it at about 30%. That also has a converse and necessary effect on women - we're approaching the majority of adult women being childless and unmarried. (all stats paraphrased from memory, could be slightly different but the gist is correct).
Your error is in thinking each person is an individual unit and that they have no effects on each other. Men checking out of society because they can't breed and can't realistically obtain economic success effects everyone else - the recent stat, for example, that depression is now a crisis among teen girls (yes, girls, not boys) is not at all unrelated to the whole incel thing. Yes, there are always going to be losers. Your goal is to make the game as balanced as possible though, because you need people to play it. The more people resent it, the less they play it, and the more some of them have the natural reaction of turning the board over.
I see this cope a lot, the "oh its just a small group of losers". The issue is that group is growing and growing by the day, and they aren't going to keep their head down and do what they should do simply because it benefits the slimmer and slimmer pool of "winners". Eventually, something snaps.
A certain degree of inequality is necessary in any game, but too much and society becomes unbalanced. We are clearly becoming increasingly unbalanced.

>>22048417
the next generation will care

>>22048384
You have my vote, and when you lose the election, my sword.

>>22048640
Nigga they don't because they haven't been infected by culture war crap and their parents and grandparents have told them horror stories of their youth when they were poor and lived in squalor.

>>22048670

>>22048671
I can't imagine what kind of blindness makes you think 'culture war' doesn't matter. 'Culture war' determines how society is oriented, who gets resources, who gets treated how. It's really all the matters.

>>22048671
They will have a tangibly worse quality of life than you. You're just a brown puedo-boomer who's been brought over to act as the house nigger/liberal cheerleader for a civilization in decline. Your marginal increase in living standards is a facade to cover the overall decrease in wealth of the population as a whole.

Sorry anon. Without systemic structural changes your children's lives will be one of unceasing decline. And the next generation of immigrants will be brought in from a land of post-colonialist squalor to displace them and keep the illusion going.

>>22048687
>It's really all the matters.
>Whitetoids actually autistic political spats are the most important thing

>>22048691
Yes, they are. Whites control things. Their decisions on cultural matters then decide what courses they take. For instance deciding to open the borders because borders are racist. That was a cultural decision. Now you are here, along with tens of millions of your species, sucking up billions in resources and changing the country.
Or for instance deciding trannies can be fighter pilots. Now America will lose ww3. And so on. Culture is the basis of decisions.

I find it kind of absurd that the idea of "hubris" as a concept disappeared from western discourse within less than a century
now that kind of behavior is considered admirable and seething nerds will defend it in 4chan threads

>>22048709
>Now America will lose ww3
Two more weeks Zisters

>>22045015
Hitler is a bad example because the Nazi Germany failed to persist beyond a single generation.

>>22045098
For some reason, I thought that image meant that the Navy had been testing recruits' testosterone levels

>>22048709
Gamer gate truly has ruined a generation of men. Come back when you wake up to porky skullfucking you with your memetier culture war nonsense
>muh borders are racist
More like cheap labor for porky, punch up instead of down for once you brain dead faggot

>>22049016
Punching up would mean beating women, considering that we live in a de facto matriarchy
>NOOOO BUT THEY DONT OWN THE BUSINESSES
Of course they don't, they wield soft power from the shadows, because they're women

>>22049024
Go back to your containment board you underage faggot

>>22049036
Wait, so you deny that women are privileged compared to men?

>>22048487
> This is what I'm trying to argue but for every developed country. Half of that is deliberate imperialism from the West, the other half is due to the material conditions of those countries giving rise to liberal populations.

>>22049016
you will never be a woman

>>22049016
>It's actually about ... le profit11!!
Wow, thanks for sharing.

>>22045416
Unlike their westoid counterparts, the millenials of Eastern Europe will be living better than their parents and grandparents. Even zoomers.

>>22049213
>>22049241
I sincerely hope you both KYS

>>22048396
This is your brain on MMT