/lit/ - Literature

>>21994957
I'm about 200 pages from the end and all I can say is YES IT WAS.

>>21994970
Can you say why in a sentence?

Sometimes it's painful, but yes, it is worth it.

>>21994957
YES

GOAT book

>>21994957
Emphatically no. The first two volumes, Swann's Way and In the Shadow of Young Girls in Bloom (or whatever the translator goes with) are superb and absolutely top-tier. This gives way to the Guermantes Way, which is 14.000 straight pages of dinner parties with the most mindnumbingly boring social intrigues and gossip among catty, faggy french upper bourgeois. It is the worst thing ever penned. I viscerally recall at one point, describing a drive to one of the endless dinner parties, some professor being given 120 pages in a row of doing fictional folk etymology of the names of fictional hamlets and landmarks that they passed - this is the worst thing I have ever read. I have never been so angry in my life.
Then comes Sodoma and Gomorrah, which begins with 200 pages of flowery language and a painfully prolonged and excruciatingly tortured metaphor about how orchids are a lot like gay sex in the ass. I am not being facetious. It is dreadful - and then, more dinner parties. MORE FUCKING DINNER PARTIES.
Couple this with the fact that every single plot point is driven by cuckolding - every single one - and you get a final result where this book is defined for masochists (on account of how much suffering it instills) and cuckolds (on account of how sluts comitting infidelity is the only plot driver), and voila, you suddenly understand why it is lauded by ANEMIC ACADEMICS, who are themselves masochist cuckolds (price of admission to academia).
Interspersed in the non-stop cucking are essays on the nature of time and memory, a great force of the first two books, which are now repeated ad nauseam. His insights become more and more banal and more and more repetitious.
99% of people who make it out on the other side will recommend it to you - some of them because they are masochist cuckolds, others, because they are traumatized and need something to cope with. It's called the sunk cost fallacy.
Absolutely stay as far away as you can. If you must, read the two first volumes, and then read sparknotes for the rest if you want to have conversations about it with other people who pretend that it is good - they likely will not remember much of consequence from it anyway, on account of the PTSD (Proust Traumatic Stress Disorder).

>>21995070
inb4 asshurt proustfags who haven't read beyond Swann's Way get instinctively butthurt at this post

>>21995070
>. It is the worst thing ever penned
lol why do you faggots exaggerate like a woman? you're very melodramatic.

Read 20 pages and dropped. But go ahead if a fag making associations is your thing.

>>21995081
I am dead serious. The fucking etymology part had me as pissed of as when I read Paolo Coelho.

>>21995109
>as when I read Paolo Coelho
Why? The alchemist is in my to be read list.

>>21995112
It's self help. He's a joke in Brazil.

>>21995112
Stop, please, I can't take it.

Because it panders to a sense of cosmic narcissism (if you truly want something, the entire universe rearranges itself to suit your needs and cravings - this is a paraphrase of an actual quote in the book, but not an uncharitable or misleading one). The manner in which it does it disguises this cosmic narcissism behind a veil of ostensibly spiritual and enlightened selflessness. Further, it delivers this message in the manner of a simple fable, the simplicity of which gives it a veil of timeless profundity, hiding that it is written as a simple fable so that the most abject retards can understand it. This makes me angry.

But in the interest of fairness and level-headedness, I'll say something else as well. Basically, it is an obscene masterpiece, in that it compliments the reader for possessing all those laudable qualities that actually reading and enjoying the book precludes the reader from having. Read in this way, as a clever and cruel joke, it is actually kind of brilliant, and has an almost Joycean sense of mischief and laughter at the expense of the reader. Of course, this was never Coelho's intention, but that hardly matters. The artwork takes on a life of its own.

The *effect* of it as an artwork on its readership of primarily New Age narcissists and spiritual wine aunts is perfect satire for the reasons stated above, and I find that both intellectually interesting and beautiful, in a highly peculiar way. But as an individual reader, it was just absolute tripe and dogshit, a rare 0/10 that made me extremely fucking angry.

>>21995121
THIS MAN, IN MY COUNTRY, HE IS NOTHING.

>>21994957
I personally can't say. I am nearly done, but I have read it in its entirety on cocaine. I am not kidding. I detest reading his languid diction when I am sober, but I enjoy it immensely on cocaine. It has taken me about a year on and off, and probably around 1000-1500 euros in cocaine, but I would actually say it has been worth it. To me at least, it has been a great pleasure, and one of the most remarkable experiences I've had with literature - 95% because of the cocaine, no doubt, but that does not detract from it in my eyes.
I think it would read even better on opioids, but I don't dabble much in those anymore, too high of an addiction liability with anything stronger than codeine or kratom, and I reserve those for more rare occasions than reading.

>>21995109
>>21995112
>>21995156
Why does everyone hate Coelho so much. Is it a EFL thing? I enjoyed the Alchemist when I read it in school. I read The Pilgrimage, The Devil and Miss Prym and Veronica all in 10th grade. I remember liking them

Proust is like psychedelic drugs. This mf goes on for 10 pages about how a bush is the most beautiful thing in life, then another 20 pages about the church steeple like he took a heroic dose of mushrooms

>>21995304
He's a John Green tier author. That's how he's seen in Brazil.

>>21995304
its pop literature so it needs to be hated if you want to be a big boy who reads big boy books

>>21995304
>writes an entire essay on why I hate Coelho
>BUT WHY
Come on now bro what the fuck do you want

>>21995304
maybe you're the wrong one for liking him. ever thought about that?
and/or little child (you) enjoyed the platitudes.

it's a shite story, but it could get a child to read it through. that's why it's an extremely simple fable.
especially his nonsense will go over such a reader's head.

>>21995070
Nice, I had the same experience reading it when I was a teenager, gave up midway through Guermantes Way for the same reasons. Now my intuitions feel validated.

Captcha: PROST

>4,215 pages
in search of lost time indeed

>>21995310
On my second reading of Swann's Way those passages struck me as amateurish and derivative of Ruskin. I much preferred his comments on the psychology of children and the way they think about adults.

>>21995473
>and/or little child (you) enjoyed the platitudes

Well he was right when he said cleaning shit up clears up the mind as well.

>especially his nonsense will go over such a reader's head.

Even though I now disagree with the whole spiritual message of that book, it certainly didn't go over my head.

>>21995506
i meant a small child/run of the mill teenager.

also, that's exactly the point i'm getting at, the entire premise is built to very obviously and exclusively point you to that "spiritual message" (which is just some narcissistic "your wishes will come true" trite)

>>21994957
Dumb faggot. You don't know they the title I'd what you do after reading it?

>>21995070
Dude, seriously? You're gonna sit there and trash Proust like that? What a load of garbage! Your post reads like the incoherent ramblings of a basement-dwelling neckbeard who thinks being edgy on 4chan makes you cool.

First off, let's address your homophobic slurs and derogatory language. Grow up, man! It's 2023, and using terms like "faggy" and "gay sex in the ass" just makes you sound like an ignorant bigot. If you want to criticize Proust, at least do it with some intellectual substance instead of resorting to juvenile insults.

Now, let's talk about your so-called "critique." You claim that the later volumes of "In Search of Lost Time" are nothing but mind-numbing dinner parties and social intrigues. Well, newsflash, genius! Proust's exploration of social dynamics and the intricacies of human interaction is precisely what makes his work so profound. It's not just about the surface-level plot points; it's about delving deep into the human psyche and capturing the essence of existence.

And guess what? Proust's detailed descriptions and introspective prose are what set him apart as a literary genius. If you can't appreciate his rich language and poetic metaphors, then maybe you should stick to reading simple picture books.

Oh, and let's not forget your obsession with cuckolding. It's clear that you have some personal issues to work through if that's the only thing you can focus on in Proust's masterpiece. "In Search of Lost Time" is a multi-layered exploration of memory, time, art, love, and so much more. Reduce it to a single theme shows a profound lack of understanding and an inability to engage with complex literature.

You claim that only masochists and traumatized individuals recommend Proust's work. Well, I hate to break it to you, but countless scholars, intellectuals, and literature enthusiasts have praised Proust for his unparalleled insights into the human condition. Maybe you should expand your horizons and challenge yourself instead of wallowing in your self-proclaimed superiority.

In conclusion, your pseudo-intellectual rant reeks of ignorance, bigotry, and a desperate need for attention. If you can't appreciate the brilliance of Proust, that's fine, but spewing hateful nonsense on 4chan won't make you any more enlightened. Grow up, broaden your literary palate, and maybe then you'll be able to contribute something meaningful to the conversation.

>>21994957
>In search of lost time
>It makes you use 4215 pages worth of your time

>>21995935
it leaves you in search of the time you lost reading it

>>21994957
I just finished it today OP (took around 5 months) and I gotta admit, it's the best thing I've ever read. I don't think any book has entrapped me so much with in themes and philosophy as this has.

>>21995112
I don't think it's as bad as people say. It's overly optimistic maybe, but then I also think that many acclaimed books are overly pessimistic, there is this bias where people think that depressing stories are somehow deeper or more realistic, but that doesn't always reflect real life.
I don't regret reading it. It's not something I usually read, so it was ok to see an author with a different perspective.

>>21995479
heh

>>21994957
Absolutely.

>>21995070
What translation do I pick up for the first 2?

>>21995898
>First off, let's address your homophobic slurs and derogatory language. Grow up, man!
>maybe you should stick to reading simple picture books.
Wow, way to contradict yourself ChatGPT. Extremely rude language, very hurtful, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

>>21996152
I read it in french, so I don't know.

if should be mandatory to read a jew's neuroticism and homosexuality

>>21994957
God knows what sort of men on Earth besides fellow jews could tolerate 4000 pages of jewish neuroticism, moral posturing, sense of inferiority presented as upside-down superiority, and unwarranted concern with the banal problems of the upper-middle class bourgeoisie.

>>21994976
Nobody can, it just tickles you the right way. Do you like interiour monologue? If not, avoid it.

>>21994957
It's a masterpiece. Ignore the /pol/ack contrarianism that permeates /lit/ discussion. It helps if you already have an interest in the culture of the late 19th/early 20th century. I actually think Time Regained is the best part but that's because it resonated with me the most.

>>21996687
>sense of inferiority presented as upside-down superiority
Psychologyfags, what is this thing called? I've been trying to find the correct term for a while and I can't.

>>21995898
redditGPT

>>21995477
I had the EXACT same experience. Swanns Way was great, second book was great too, but I stopped reading Guermantes Way about halfway and never got back to it. For years Ive been thinking about restarting it because I dont remember why I stopped but subconsciously I keep avoiding it

>>21996043
kino status: elevated

>>21995898
impossible not to laugh reading that. It's funny if satire, even funnier if real. The tone is exquisitely humorous, insults are very subtle, and the whole thing has a slight aroma of torn anuses.
I haven't intended to ever read Proust, and this post only affirmed my stance.

>>21996821
it's literally just "an inferiority complex". That's the thing with psychoanalytic wank, whatever the thing is, it can just as well express itself as its diametrical opposite. Be Napoleon and conquer the entire world and become the very weltgeist? It's actually a Napoleon complex (subtype of inferiority complex) because you secretly think you suck and can't do anything. Stay at home and do nothing? Also inferiority complex.
Seduce a woman who reminds you of your mother? You want to fuck your mother. Seduce a woman who is as far away as possible in type from your mother? You still want to fuck your mother, and that's why you try so hard to get a woman that does not remind you of her.
Inferiority complexes can still be true, but taken at face value, it's just meaningless psychobabble, and needs further specification to be a proper insult.

>>21995070
God bless you

Readers can forget that these books came out when there was no tv or movies or even radio. It was the stand in, so if its hard to read and you're not enjoying it then do some other better form of entertainment. Especially those books, they're so wafty and gay.

>>21995070
correct

>>21994957
You should read it if you have time

Proust is a trash writer

“there are pages, there are chapters of Marcel Proust that are unacceptable as inventions, and we unwittingly resign ourselves to them as we resign ourselves to the insipidity and emptiness of each day.” --- Jorge Luis Borges


"To be absolutely honest, apart from the opening volume of Proust, I find him crushingly dull." --- Kazuo Ishiguro


"I have read some pages of his. I cannot see any special talent." --- James Joyce in a 1920 letter to Frank Budgen


"I am reading Proust for the first time. Very poor stuff. I think he was mentally defective." --- Evelyn Waugh


"Prout Proust, who was half ghost, immersed himself with extraordinary tenacity in the infinitely watery futility of the rites and procedures that entwine the members of high society, those denizens of the void, those phantoms of desire, those irresolute daisy-chainers still waiting for their Watteau, those listless seekers after implausible Cythereas.
300 pages to learn tutu is sodomizing toto.... it's too much" --- Louis Ferdinand Celine


"Proust? That's not literature" --- Cormac McCarthy

>>21997335
>"Prout Proust, who was half ghost, immersed himself with extraordinary tenacity in the infinitely watery futility of the rites and procedures that entwine the members of high society, those denizens of the void, those phantoms of desire, those irresolute daisy-chainers still waiting for their Watteau, those listless seekers after implausible Cythereas. 300 pages to learn tutu is sodomizing toto.... it's too much" --- Louis Ferdinand Celine
Based.

>>21997335
>"Prout Proust, who was half ghost, immersed himself with extraordinary tenacity in the infinitely watery futility of the rites and procedures that entwine the members of high society, those denizens of the void, those phantoms of desire, those irresolute daisy-chainers still waiting for their Watteau, those listless seekers after implausible Cythereas.
>300 pages to learn tutu is sodomizing toto.... it's too much" --- Louis Ferdinand Celine
Best thing he's ever written.

>>21995070
>PTSD (Proust-Traumatic Stress Disorder)
chuckled

tldr: no

>So there you have the ‘serious’ novel, dying in a very long-drawn-out fourteen-volume death-agony, and absorbedly, childishly interested in the phenomenon. ‘Did I feel a twinge in my little toe, or didn’t I?’ asks every character of Mr Joyce or of Miss Richardson or M. Proust. Is my aura a blend of frankincense and orange pekoe and boot-blacking, or is it myrrh and bacon-fat and Shetland tweed? The audience round the death-bed gapes for the answer. And when, in a sepulchral tone, the answer comes at length, after hundreds of pages: ‘It is none of these, it is abysmal chloro-coryambasis,’ the audience quivers all over, and murmurs: ‘That’s just how I feel myself.’

>the dismal, long-drawn-out comedy of the death-bed of the serious novel. It is self-consciousness picked into such fine bits that the bits are most of them invisible, and you have to go by smell. Through thousands and thousands of pages Mr Joyce and Miss Richardson tear themselves to pieces, strip their smallest emotions to the finest threads, till you feel you are sewed inside a wool mattress that is being slowly shaken up, and you are turning to wool along with the rest of the woolliness. It’s awful. And it’s childish. It really is childish, after a certain age, to be absorbedly self-conscious. One has to be self-conscious at seventeen: still a little self-conscious at twenty-seven; but if we are going it strong at thirty-seven, then it is a sign of arrested development, nothing else. And if it is still continuing at forty-seven, it is obvious senile precocity.

>'And, oh, Lord, if I liked to watch myself closely enough, if I liked to analyse my feelings minutely, as I unbutton my gloves, instead of saying crudely I unbuttoned them, then I could go on to a million pages instead of a thousand. In fact, the more I come to think of it, it is gross, it is uncivilized bluntly to say: I unbuttoned my gloves. After all, the absorbing adventure of it! Which button did I begin with?’ etc.
t. lawrence

>>21997335
Writers are notoriously poor critics, anon. They're only worth listening to when they're praising another writer, not when they're discussing literary rivals at which they more often than not seethe with jealousy.

>Ishiguro talking about dullness
>Evenlyn Waugh talking about mental defectiveness
Come on now. This thread is filled with coping non-readers.

It's not gay if I think he's talking about women instead of his qt bfs?

>>21994957
its comfy, basically life of a rich NEET, without any guilt and without any isolation commonly associated with that lifestyle. Honestly who would not want to live like him? Entire world was in grasp of his hand

>>21997751
That's what you should be doing, anon. Someone who reads ISOLT as a gender-swapped biography of Proust does not respect literature, he's a chump. It's not a biography, it's fiction.

>>21997743
>btfos Proust
>btfos Russell
>writes Lady Chatterley's Lover

How can a single man be so based?

>>21997335
>"Proust? That's not literature" --- Cormac McCarthy
The most bland and unconstructive criticism comes from the American. The least talented author in that list and writer of overrated genre fiction.

>>21998157
although I like cormac I have to agree with this sentiment

>>21997746
>They're only worth listening to when they're praising another writer
>Stunning!
>– Stephen King
>....
>THE NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER

>goes for the bi-slut in his friends group
>gets investigated for underage sex crimes
>supports a spy jew
What is unironically wrong with the protagonist?

>>21997335
Damn Celine was so based. Need to read more of his stuff beyond Journey to the End of the Night

>>21998571
>implying stephen king is a good writer

>>21998642
He is an autistic snob, did you not read the book?

>>21996687
he's not a jew

>>21998642
Even worse
>gets jealous that his gf wants to include other women
My first teenage girlfriend at 16 claimed to be bisexual, and had plenty of friends who wanted threesomes with us. In my jealousy, I said no.
Literally my biggest regret.

>>21998833
jelousy of women? lol

>>21994957
Yes.

>>21998833
This hurts

>>21997743
i'm still going to read swann's way and form my own opinion, but damn if d.h doesn't have a point. will pick up the rainbow here soon.

>>21998833
Every gf I've ever had claims to be bisexual at the outset, becomes hyper-monogamous when we begin seriously dating, and then reverts to being some polyqueer "mostly gay" fairy when we break up

I have tried to get 4 different women to just have sex with other women with me and they all turn it into some psychodrama in which I'm ruining their lives and utterly devaluing them despite the fact that they advertised themselves as bi, poly, and horny. I feel very ripped off. The only threesomes I've had were impromptu and drunken.

>>21999356
I honestly don't know what to do with myself during a threesome. I've tried it once. I enjoy eating pussy too much, so as I was fucking while eating pussy, I just busted immediately.
Come to think of it, threesomes really pinpoint the inherent tragic paradox of male sexuality. In order to enjoy yourself, you must not enjoy yourself, because if you do, it ends. It's common enough that it's a normie meme that men will think about straight up rotting corpses during sex just to avoid busting. I vividly recall on Chuck Palahniuk book I read as a teenager, the one with the sex addict, who has an entire arsenal of mental images of bloody, mangled corpses in car crashes and grandmothers dying of cancer he would entertain during sex.
Like what the fuck man, why does it have to be that way?

>>21999384
There are better ways to get pleasure than sex for example candyflipping. In sex it's only motivating side effect not main purpose.

>>21995070
>which begins with 200 pages of flowery language and a painfully prolonged and excruciatingly tortured metaphor about how orchids are a lot like gay sex in the ass
holy based

>>21998157
Use this, tranny

>>21995070
3rd and 4th books are weak but it gets good again afterwards. the end is beautiful, the trip to venice is beautiful, the stuff in La Prisoniere where he's stuck in that house with Albertine is all really compelling. This guy is exaggerating

>>21998157
C'mon now, he is more talented than Ishiguro, Waugh and Celine quite easily.

I disliked Charlus in the first volumes but later I was worried for him when the Verdurins wanted to ruin him but why did I doubt him? He was too based

>>22000724
I love Charlus and how he'll act like a complete madman in a scene only for the narrator to say, after he's done describing the actual event, that Charlus was actually a great and kind man, filled with compassion for his fellow man. Of course we don't get to see or really hear about his good side until later on in the novel, you just have to trust the narrator until then. The narrator will show us one thing - a scene from an earlier stage of his life - then tell us another; a contradiction that isn't really resolved until the final volumes.

>>21996821
Woody Allen Syndrome

>>21995070
>Swann's Way - 9.2/10
>Shadow of the young girls in Flower - 9.5/10
>Guermantes Way - 8.4/10
>Sodom and Gomorrah - 7.5/10
> The Prisoner - 9/10
> The Fugitive - 6/10

Haven't read the last book yet as I can't find it in me to finish The Fugitive. It gets so knotty in this book and the descriptions seem fake. The story is very all over the place also, and yeah, it does just rehash themes. The Prisoner is brilliant though

>>21998792
https://proustreader.wordpress.com/2010/06/03/was-marcel-proust-an-anti-semite/
>Proust’s mother was Jewish, which makes him Jewish in the eyes of Jews, but he was raised in the Catholic church of his father. He moved comfortably in both worlds, having good relations with the maternal side of the family as well as with the overwhelmingly Catholic high society in which he moved. One index of moral scorn he felt for a character in the novel was the identification of that person as an anti-Semite. His most sympathetic character, Swann, was Jewish. And Proust was a militant Dreyfusard who lead a petition campaign for a retrial.

>albertines breasts were like two ripe fruits that were round
>her crotch was like two clams meeting in tender caress
So this is the power of French eroticism....

>>22002128
Interesting take. I myself, however, is man of consequence.
Swann's Way: 10
Young girls in bloom: 10
Guermantes way: - 10.000
Sodom: - 10.000
Captive: 9
Fugitive: 8
Time regained: 10

I would unironically argue that people should skip volume 3 and 4 to make it a better artwork, no different than reading an abridged version of serialized novels that were paid per line, like the count of Monte Cristo.

>>22002743
Sealife analogies for genitals and sexual activity always make me think of Kinoko Nasu's works.

I would take this series over all other books

>>21994957
No. The sunk cost fallacy explains the enthusiasm.

>>21994957
It's already been mentioned in the thread (very polemically), but I actually do find it pretty remarkable how decidedly horrifyingy bad volume 3 and 4 are compared to the rest. While I see a few posters who just gave up during 3 or 4 (and I kinda get it, they really were nothing but a slog), I'd say that it completely turns around by volume 5, 6 and 7 again, who are on par or better than 1 and 2.

I don't know if >>22002768 is joking about skipping 3 and 4, but in all earnestness, should I ever reread it, I might jus do that.

>>21995070
I've not read it, but the middle arcs being pure tedium rather seems the point for a work named "In Search of Lost Time", no? Or have I completely missed the mark with my measure of the title?

>>21994957
Sounds like an extremely ironic name considering the length.

>>21994957
Nope. This dude talks about how he loves the smell of a pisspot full of asparagus pee.

>>22004542
Nah man, In Search of Lost Time is a reference to memory and the strange ways in which it works and shapes our outlook, not writing abhorrently shitty books in the middle of a multi-volume series.

>>21997335
>Proust is a trash writer
>proceeds to unironically cite motherfucking Ishiguro
Also:
>"I am reading Proust for the first time. Very poor stuff. I think he was mentally defective." --- Evelyn Waugh
>Early in 1954, Waugh's doctors, concerned by his physical deterioration, advised a change of scene. On 29 January, he took a ship bound for Ceylon, hoping that he would be able to finish his novel. Within a few days, he was writing home complaining of "other passengers whispering about me" and of hearing voices, including that of his recent BBC interlocutor, Stephen Black.

>>22005756
Makes Evelyn Waugh's critique even more compelling on the principle of takes one to know one.

>has to find a name for a crazy BPD bitch
>Odette de Crazy
Bravo Proust, bravo

>>21995070
At one point in volume 5 he writes something like "love is only nourished by pain and anxiety" in relation to his constant thoughts that Albertine is getting creampied left and right by other men, and it is unironically the most cuck shit I have ever read. I get it he was a fag and fags are promiscuous, the real life Albert she was based on likely doubly so, but I mean god damn, could you at least have a single meditation or thought on love that doesn't involve getting cucked?

>>22002768
>I myself, however, is man of consequence

>>22005756
>so bad an insane man finds you more insane

The last three volumes are unfinished and are a step down in quality compared to the ones beforehand because Proust died before he could refine them, so his brother cobbled together rough drafts and published them.

>>21997335
>300 pages to learn tutu is sodomizing toto
SCREAMING

>>22008653
>>21997335
>tutu is sodomizing toto
ESL retard here.
What does this mean?
I know sodomy (inb4 funny jokes) but not tutu and toto.

>>21995112
Unironically nothing wrong with him. His audience is sub100IQ and that's why /lit/ hates him, but he's what those sub 100s need/can understand.

>>22009867
EFL and I'm confused too

>>21995070
This is why I will always and forever love /lit/, holy my sides.

>>22009867
>>22010808
placeholder/meaningless names to mock Proust's storymaking.

your local variant of "random person" sodomizing "random person"

also made in that alliterative way to be funnier.

>>21994957
>4,215 pages
>In search of lost time
Is it going to help me search for the time I lost reading this book?

Not letting this thread die, Proust thread must live forever.