/lit/ - Literature

Only if you are an upper class white millennial female.

I mean, Harry Potter and Marvel movies are based on books.

>>21982184
is it better to be a writer of books no one reads or be a stand up comedian with an audience?

>movies
Schlock; intended audience: morons
>music
Schlock -- unless classical; general audience: retards who listen to N music
>video games
Schlock; intended audience: retarded manchildren incapable of abstract thought

>>21982196
first potter book came out last century and Marvel are comic books which are also dying in relevance

>>21982192
books for that demographic are literally just erotica murder mysteries

The only coherent definition of literature that doesn't rest on classist and elitist assumptions of universal value is one that separates it from books as a format. Literature is art which can be reevaluated from many lenses while succeeding in any of them, it's art that stands the test of time, influences the culture that follows, and carries as much philosophical value as it does aesthetic. Under this definition, not only are prose, poetry, and epics literature, but also many films, popular albums, and television shows. Literary studies already address the subject media-agnostically, and like it or not, long form prose will never be as popular again as it once was. We can either expand our interests or die irrelevant.

>>21982356
Forgot to nod generally toward vidya. I don't know which there are, but there must be at least one literary game.

>>21982359
>there must be at least one literary game

>>21982205
It's dying after during the pandemic. I think because people realize the real heroes are the public after all, medical staff, receptionist, wagies, janitors, teachers, police

>>21982363
>DUDE DODGE AND ROLL IS SOOOOO HECKIN IMPOSSIBLE OMG SOOOOO HARD

>>21982184
i mean it was never really. the majority either couldn't read or watched tv before the information age

>>21982364
You're right, anon. The fearmongers were the real heroes. Keeping us isolated at home while our grandparents died alone was truly for the good of everyone!

>>21982876
>grocery stockers and receptionists are the enemy!

>>21982184
Great literature is elitist and not for modern society.

>>21982876
If your grandparents died alone they deserved it for leading to the creation of a retarded faggot

>>21982184
Reading for prolonged period of time is already a mental exercise that contributes to iq, logic, memory etc even if all ones is reading is some genre fiction, if one is actually reading something of value that they learn from then that is even better. Music and tv are just information that is flowing in requiring little to no processing, some of it may stay in memory (like general outline of a movie plot but thats it), it pretty much completely useless, and does not bring any mental benefits
games requiring mouse may train hand to eye cordination but frankly that is also a useless skill.

>>21982983
>Music and tv are just information that is flowing in requiring little to no processing, some of it may stay in memory (like general outline of a movie plot but thats it), it pretty much completely useless, and does not bring any mental benefits.
What? Music demands mental exercise and promotes development in the same terms you've described for books. It is but one of the wells from which to draw inspiration and refine your mind. Now, you might be thinking
>but there's no way you can exercise your mind like that with modern music
For one, good music has always been obscure and required effort to find and appreciate, though nowadays, like many other good things, it has become much harder to swim through the cesspool if you don't know how to navigate through it. Now, what I just greentexted is the problem with listening to jungle noise like rap, kpop and other garbage. Rather, music is quite similar to books in that whether your brain will develop great tastes or atrophy your capabilities depends on the media you're reading/listening to. Imagine an adult who's read nothing but Harry Potter and Ready Player One, and me telling you that a dunce who's been addicted to BTS and anime idolshit is just as mentally incapable won't come off as a surprise.
A lot of people talk about the benefits of listening to good music, or reading good books; few dare mention the dangers of listening to shit, simplistic, tribal "music", or reading basic bitch "books". I recommend this book if you're interested on the subject, though I don't think it's been translated to english.
>games requiring mouse may train hand to eye cordination but frankly that is also a useless skill.
Nah, games teach you to observe through patterns and find potential exploits in a system. You could even say that they have served as an introduction to the english language to a relevant portion of the global population. Not as great as books or music, but far from useless.

>>21983126
>good music has always been obscure and required effort to find and appreciate
Giving now a second thought, not always. Radios actually used to play classical music in early 20th century, at most before WW II, before americans ruined radio stations (and, by extension, tainted music as a medium) by commodifying music.

>>21982876
The fearmongers are some of the Twitter users who think they're famous. Also, politicians. Notice I never list down politicians. I'm pretty sure the people I listed actually helps to calm down the surge of sick people. Especially janitors, they have to literally clean people's shit

>>21983141
Whenever I got a long drive and am not content with soothing silence, I put on a conference to listen to. I tried the radio a handful of times but couldn't bear the constant American pop music. But there are is always one station or two focused on classical music, be it in France, Belgium or the Netherlands.

>>21983126
I said prolonged reading is better than tv, music, or games. Someone who read Harry Potter has exercised their brain and benefited more than someone who watched Harry Potter. The information (the facts) they learned is obviously useless in case of HP but even reading that much of coherent text is neurologically beneficial.

Regarding music, anyone who is interested and inclined towards music will benefit from listening to good music, it will likely improve and develop their cognitive abilities in that music sense and will inturn allow them to create their own music, but for anyone else, they will not conciously analyze music, they will only listen to relax without abalyzing it, even if they do conciously analyze it, that sort of skill and undetstanding can hardly be applied anywhere else but music.

And games are really just a waste of time, people learning English is besides the point, it is really just getting involved in multiligual community and having to speak one language to be able to understand each other, games just happened to be that community, today many games come translated and their online components have local servers where English aren't spoken (like Korea, China and Japan), absolute majority of games teach nothing, very few chess like logical games require logical thinking and those puzzles they have are completely unreleastic and don't translate to real world in any way. Most games are about how fast you can move your mouse to aim and shoot or how fast is your click count or timing a jump. They are really a waste of time in a sense of brain ability to learning, compared to the benefit of reading games are probably even harmful

>>21982184
Literature is very female focused. You have to be either female or chad to really get it. You’re in the wrong place duck.

>>21982363
How the fuck is Elden ring literary?
>Zanzibart... forgive me!!!!

>>21982184
They are. For some reason when we talk about this compulsory reading in schools evaporates or something.
Even if the majority of students dont read shit, it doesnt mean the teachers don't teach or test from a book. Just having someone tell you to read and what to read gives you the opportunity to do so, which I think is powerful in terms of both literacy and innoculation into Society and its canons of thinking.

No. That’s partly why and partly because everything is all fucked up.

>>21982184
was it ever

>>21982901
>people who interact with other people are the true heroes because ... they speak to others, holy shit, you could get the sniffles from that

>>21982204
And you're a pretentious loser lol

It is highly influential in the academic/politic spheres, which influence society to an enormous degree. The right, for example, wouldn't be in this situation if there were more right-wing people taking humanities courses, choosing the academic path and becoming educators, now every other teacher (or more) is a marxist faggot.

>>21985888
if you believe that even one in ten highschool teachers can give a definition of communism beyond "when the government does things" let alone have cracked open das kapital you are genuinely retarded
wasted trips

Yes
Contrary to technology, artistic endeavors survive long past their creation. Pottery, plays, writing, music, and many more creative outlets have existed for a while. Some of these mediums like song probably predate recorded history, yet they not only continue to exist they thrive as a civilization obtains higher quality of life. New mediums of creativity exist, but just because we don’t need to put things in jars anymore doesn’t stop people from making pottery or writing stories. Art is timeless

>>21986052
Oh man my .gif broke

>>21982184
Not really. It can only hope to achieve widespread relevance if you have it adapted into a movie, TV show, video game, etc.

>>21983967
Are you going to cry?

>>21982205
>comic books dying in relevancy
Only in the US.

>>21986077
Are Europoor comics doing well? I thought manga was eating everything.

>>21986028
By marxist faggot I don't mean someone who is well-versed in Marxism, necessarily. The average leftist NPC hold marxist ideals without ever reading Marx.

>>21982184
>relevant
>modern society
lol who cares

>>21982200
>stand up comedian with an audience
Take SSRIs and benzodiazepines, checking social media then going out to a stand up comedy.
Schopenhauer was right. Happiness is overrated.

>>21982356
>>21983265
In defense of videogames, the instances where we have seen a game made without an interest in entertainment are incredibly few. Videogames made for the sake of art has not really been tried in a relevant way. You can look up at stuff like Electronic Installation Art which arguably are just "video games" or stuff like Electroplankton where there isn't any narrative, objective, scoring, etc. i.e. you cant lose, win or "finish it", you just experience it.

Videogames strength is in the way people interact with them, "gameplay". The moment someone creates such an experience that can only be portrayed through videogames and fully comprehended through gameplay, we will see them as more than just games.

>>21986077
>>21986098
As someone who was executive assistant at a publishing startup, one of the things I learned is that overall the graphic novel/light novel/comic book mediums have always been very niche.

People dont really buy it that much and never actually did. This applies to all regions. Japan being an exception in that it only exists because print quality is lower than newspaper and hence making a profit is actually possible. Ultimately you want your manga to be turned into a weekly anime and get money form publicity.

Spurring fervor demures the urban murmur

>>21982318
>books for that demographic are literally just erotica murder mysteries
It don't matter. They're the only ones who still give a shit about reading. Everyone else has tuned out. Do you see ANY other demographic giving a shit?

>>21982184
Yes I'm gonna cry cause some faggot said some pseud shit

>>21982184
If you consider copypasta and tweet formats literature, then yes

>>21982204
>video games bad
>t. uncoordinated unstrategic retard
Games are the epitome of strategic and critical thinking as well as coordination and reflexive skill. Video games allow a story to be told using said strategic and reflexive exercises through use of interaction as a story-telling element

I should have made The Shitkickers a side-scrolling fighting game like Final Fight where you go around beating the living shit out of bike thieves in various Vancouver-based levels

>>21988348
Lol. It's fine if you waste time playing video games. I do too. But it's 99% trash and hardly worth conceding to the other 1%

>>21988348
Strategy and reflex, absolutely. Critical thinking is barely engaged in even the most sophisticated games, though. Basically just some experimental indie games and a handful of AAA games since the 80s.
The potential artistic merit of video games is enormous, but that potential hasn't even begun to come to fruition in 2023.

>>21988637
>Critical thinking is barely engaged in even the most sophisticated games, though
It's impossible to strategize against other humans without critical thinking

>>21988654
Very few gamers play games that reward strategy more than muscle memory, and those who do overwhelmingly abide by groupthink and metagaming, reactive rather than proactive. Sure, that's critical thinking, but then any piece of art with a hint of irony "requires critical thinking" to a similar degree.

>>21988692
>waaa people called me mean words because i played something off-meta

>>21988695
Kek I've never once cared about winning vidya, project harder. I just play games for fun like an adult.

>>21982204

>>21987171
Im fine with people thinking games are retarded as long as they think movies are as well

>>21982184
>relevant
You might be surprised to find out that 'people of influence' (e.g. successful politicians) read way more than the average person.
As far as relevance for, say, bullshit talk at a butchers shop or a youtube video essay, then literature is irrelevant.

>>21982204
Some old films and games are gold, and good music is mainly classical as you said and not all the ki*e, ar*b, gy*sy nig*er, mus*in crap.

>>21988827
> successful politicians
You mean successful people in general / high-IQ persons tend to read more than the average petty bourgeois plebeian.

>>21988692
You are playing word games by labeling learning how to play as groupthink. The mrtagame itself is a separate game - it's right on the name - which requires enormous amounts of strategy, and has an infinite amounts of depth. If you understand it merely as a list of the most effective tactics, as that awful backronym suggests, then you are among the dumbest members of any given playerbase.

You are trying to minimize a skill you barely understand and are showing us that you are far dumber than you think you are.

>>21988692
>Very few gamers play games that reward strategy more than muscle memory
It is never one or the other outside your simpleminded delusion. Multiplayer gamers, of all levels, use their minds, and pit themselves against the minds of their adversaries. You tried to use the existence of metagames as a counterpoint to strategy when it is but another avenue to make meaningful decisions. Essentially, you have used an opportunity for strategy as a point against the existence of meaningful strategy.

You have reversed the truth and achieved nothing but public humiliation. That is before you examine the stupidity of basing the worth of video games on the masses that play them. With your idiotic logic, novels would be worthless because most readers choose to read smut.

>>21982359
>there must be at least one literary game
Disco Elysium?

>>21982366
>>21983328
Seethe on que

I genuinely think that movies, TV and games can supplant the niche of short stories, but one area that they can not is tight, long-form storytelling.
TV has too many financial and technical barriers to be able to match the creativity and scope of long-form literature.
Movies have the same problems as TV but also time limits further restricting their ability to tell stories.
Games come close, but are generally too open-ended and dependant on player control to tell tightly written stories. The games that do take control and player input away to tell tight stories are usually VNs - really more of a digital form of literature than a game.

>>21988842
>impotently complains about minorities online
>includes arabs
>censors swearwords because he's a pussy
German or Anglo?

>>21989426
And Planescape Torment.

>>21983162
Janitors exist to be the butt of jokes, if you're a janitor and you see this I hope you feel bad. Especially if you do it for free.

Reading literary fiction is a niche, middle-class, female, activity now. It has been for a few decades.

>>21982192
this is the correct answer. only retards and women read fiction

>>21988708
99% of movies are but high art tier kino exists. Can't say the same for vidya; as a gamer myself, I don't know why this is so hard to accept for gamers.

>>21989873
>I genuinely think that movies, TV and games can supplant the niche of short stories, but one area that they can not is tight, long-form storytelling.
True. Short stories and novellas became redundant when high budget tv like Sopranos and The Wire became a thing. That's why for me it's poetry and great 500+ page tomes.

>>21991270
What the fuck is this image

>>21991339
Darkwood, pathologic and silent hill (even though its inspired by jacobs ladder) are more kino than any horror movie. Also I would argue games released in a yearly basis are better than movies or tv shows released. Film has just had a lot more time to grow, and is much easier to tell stories with