/lit/ - Literature

And this is important to you, yes? To hurt people? To punish people?
Why do you think that is?

>>21682530
Left-Nietzschean here.
No it doesn't, I don't care at all.

>>21682609
I hope you'll snap out of your Deleuzean delusions one day

>>21682604
Freud bot

>>21682530
>wanting to claim Nietzsche

Perhaps no philosopher is more of a conundrum than Nietzsche, the solitary rebel, poet, wayfarer, anti-revolutionary Aufklärer and theorist of aristocratic radicalism. His accusers identify in his ‘superman’ the origins of Nazism, and thus issue an irrevocable condemnation; his defenders pursue a hermeneutics of innocence founded ultimately in allegory. In a work that constitutes the most important contribution to Nietzschean studies in recent decades, Domenico Losurdo instead pursues a less reductive strategy. Taking literally the ruthless implications of Nietzsche's anti-democratic thinking – his celebration of slavery, of war and colonial expansion, and eugenics – he nevertheless refuses to treat these from the perspective of the mid-twentieth century. In doing so, he restores Nietzsche’s works to their complex nineteenth-century context, and presents a more compelling account of the importance of Nietzsche as philosopher than can be expected from his many contemporary apologists.

>>21682609
the whatadfs fsd sg?

>>21682632
Nietzsche makes a lot more sense if you consider that he's just retarded.

>>21682530
Okay? And why is that important to you?

>>21682702
I hate retards

>>21682754
So you hate yourself?

>>21682530
>Rebel
And that makes the rightwing Nietzsche fan seethe

I'm at the point where anyone who is against the current system is ok with me but I prefer the left

>left nietzscheans

>>21683297
He rebelled against Christian/liberal/socialist morality(aka slave morality)

>>21682530
Imagine needing 1000 pages of scholarship by a Marxist Stalin apologist to figure out that Nietzsche is far right and pro eugenics.

>>21682609
>Left-Nietzschean here
I can't even imagine this plain nietzscheans are insufferable enough

>>21684508
>Stalin apologist
Stop regurgitating opinions you've seen others parotting. His Stalin book literally mentions all his evil deeds in detail and just puts them in their political and historical context rather than going "Stalin le ebil dictatorship".

>>21682609
Nietzsche spent most of his energy attacking leftist takes lmao

>>21682530
>left nietzscheans
What in god's name could this possibly consist of? Leftism is fundamentally incompatible with strong individuality, which is the foundation of Nietzsche's thoughts and beliefs.

>>21685031
the common line of reasoning is that he attacked 'utopian socialism', or in layman terms, liberalism. Much of the criticism he lays on the socialists is inapplicable to much of Marx's writings.

And it's not like his maxims cannot be used for practical action towards building communism, Leon Trotsky was famously inspired by Nietzsche, as seen by his proponence of the 'New Soviet Man'.

>>21685063
Bullshit. He was apparently aware of marx and his writings too.

>And it's not like his maxims cannot be used for practical action towards building communism
You can't
You can borrow a couple of his insights here and there at best.

>>21682530
Losurdo should kill himself, disgusting stalinist pig

>>21682530
What difference does it make to personally prefer the aristocracy politics if your philosophy is revolutionary? Nietzche is useful for the left and Jews and they noticed it real quickly.

>>21684819
I am aware. That's why I didn't call him a stalinist. He does claim that the Nazis were much more evil than the Soviets, that Soviet crimes weren't all that different then what Britain and America got up to.

>>21685063
He did make fun of scientific socialism in beyond good and evil. He said that there was a concerted effort to deny the naturally violent and hierarchical nature of social and animal life coming both from moralists and those operating under “scientific disguises”. He was always hammering the idea that inequality is not the result of a defect with society, which makes any left interpretation of him pretty questionable

>>21682622
>>21682676
>>21684759
>>21685031
>literally do not care
>state it
>it causes endless seethe
Damn what a bunch of reactive bitch slaves

>>21685037
Why don't you see for yourself and read Deleuze's Nietzsche or Foucault's Biopolitics for example.

>>21685561
The fact an author has an interest in Nietzsche doesn't mean their ideas come from Nietzsche or have some relation to him.

Deleuze doesn't actually make any claims derived from but rather only resummarizes Nietzsche. Foucault isn't even worth mentioning, he's just a pseudo-intellectual with a following, he's more of a performance artists than a thinker, basically an e-celeb before e-celebs existed.

>>21685602
Both derive core concepts of their respective projects from Nietzsche.
Don't read them if you don't want to but spare us your ignorance.

>>21685699
Go ahead and produce one such example, if you can lol.

>>21682609
You don't even understand Nietzsche beyond the fact that he didn't like Christianity, but you do not understand why he disliked it--and what his antithesis was to it. "Left-Nietzschean" is an oxymoron because Nietzsche was as far to the right as you could possibly be.

>>21685699
I didn't know dying from aids and a collapsed colon while lauding insane people as having secret wisdom was a project, TIL, thanks reddit!

>>21685699
If you honestly believe you can argue from a Marxist framework in favour of Nietzsche, i.e. Master morality, then you are fucking retarded; Marxism is slave morality and can't be understood as anything but slave morality.

>>21682530
>and critical balance-sheet

>OP starts a thinly veiled /pol/ thread
>retards from both sides can't shut up about it
>not even a single take from the book to discuss
you are all retarded. all of you. why even reply to cum-guzzling OPs who don't put even the slightest bit of effort?

>>21685699
keyword is "core concepts". a bit of bone, not the meat where the flavor is. you may be correct there but the original line of questioning had to do with "left Nietzscheans". Deleuze and Foucault are not Nietzschean. your reading comprehension notwithstanding, there is still the "problem" of leftists who parade poor Nietzsche's dead corpse in their name like >>21682609, but really there's nothing there. just a name. >>21685730 he didn't mention anything about Marxism, just Foucault and Deleuze.

>>21685716
is still unanswered. >>21685699 you just chimed in to throw your spare change. cheap! cheap ideas held together by weak little hands. not even the courage to write down a three-sentence thesis statement. why you ought to have saved yourself the trouble and kept your weak ideas to yourself. a will to whimper.

>>21685037
>>What in god's name could this possibly consist of?
It's called bait anon, there's no such thing which is precisely why commie dicksuckers try to suggest it is real, their entire existence is based on delusions and mental sleight of hand.

It's just a way to try and siphon relevance from Nietzsche. In their tiny little brains it goes something like this

people like Nietzsche because he's cool

people hate leftism because it's gay

so if I say Nietzsche can be leftist too people will like it and stop calling me gay!

That's the level their minds work on. It's quite sad really.

>>21685037

>> Anonymous Wed Feb 8 13:00:18 2023 No.21631188 [View]
Nietzsche is your typical atheist that you find on every street corner nowadays. Those people are torn apart by nihilism and delusion of grandeur where they view themselves as a benevolent despot willy-nilly leading humanity towards a higher life.
Nietzsche is:
-an atheist [there is no god]
-an anti-christian [like any marxist] [Dude dont think long term like the life-denier christians, only the here and now matters OKAY!!]
-a nihilist [there is no truth, only interpretation, TRUTH!!!]
-an hedonist [Only this life matters!!1 live in the present moment to coom like my dancing vitalist idol, the great dyonisus!! teehee im Nietzsche btw, look at meee !11]
-a narcissist [look how I analysed the totally non-judeo-christian-made concept of ''''''human nature''''' , Humanity is will to power!!! LE HECKIN INSIGHT]
-a jew glorifier ["The Jews, however, are beyond any doubt the strongest, toughest, and purest race now living in Europe."]
-a postmodernist [values don't exist but reality doesn't matter bro!!! Just become le heckin uberman, sink further into delusion, create your own values and fight for them until you die!!]

You believe you're a woman? You go giiiiiirl, nobody can tell you otherwise, period!!


yeah no wonder that lefty/lit/ trannies shill his diarrhea all the fucking time.

>>21685717
>"Left-Nietzschean" is an oxymoron
>literally using scholastic-style disputationes in his attempt to demonstrate someone else is against the spirit of Nietzsche while he is in it
hahahahhaha
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

>>21682530
Marxists are incapable of interpreting Nietzsche because a peasant cannot understand an aristocrat of the spirit.

People should be forced to write a crown of sonnets, a sestina and a piano sonata before reading Nietzsche.

>>21682530
Retarded directionbrain.

>>21686225
>People should be forced to write a crown of sonnets, a sestina and a piano sonata before reading Nietzsche.

>>21686236
That's a bare minimum for an educated 19th century European audience, and guess who was Nietzsche's intended audience?
I guarantee that you do not understand Nietzsche. When he mentions the Renaissance I bet you think of paintings and Burckhardt. When he mentions the Greek you probably think of Mary Beard. When he mentions Wagner you think of napalm.

You probably also grew up in overparented America and didn't have a toy gun nor contact with wild animals as a kid. Did you ever even ride a horse?

>>21686225
Wasn't Nietzsche a failed composer?

>>21686281
Please write another paragraph so I can be copypasta

>>21684296
And so do anarchists.

>>21686297
He wasn't a bad composer, but he was not destined for any sort of greatness in that area.
But yes, he did compose.

>>21686299
My statements are sound. You have no reply.

>>21686281
>That's a bare minimum for an educated 19th century European audience, and guess who was Nietzsche's intended audience?
>I guarantee that you do not understand Nietzsche. When he mentions the Renaissance I bet you think of paintings and Burckhardt. When he mentions the Greek you probably think of Mary Beard. When he mentions Wagner you think of napalm.
>You probably also grew up in overparented America and didn't have a toy gun nor contact with wild animals as a kid. Did you ever even ride a horse?

>>21686322
>My statements are sound. You have no reply.

>>21686304
You don't understand what Nietzsche means by Christian morality.
Left-wing anarchism is as slavish/Jewish/Christian as it gets.

>>21686335
And you don’t understand what anarchists are.
And you make a guru of Friedrich.
No decent anarchist would no matter how much he admires him.

>>21686281
>overparented America
Talk of misconceptions

>>21682530
Isn't Losurdo notable for being an arch-tankie? He's probably just reading things into Nietzsche that aren't necessarily there to paint him as the key precursor to Nazism or something, I've never read the book myself.

>>21682680
Bingo

>>21686495
Well, it depends. What anarchists are you taking about?
Left-wing ones like Kropotkin and Chomsky? Yea, both as Christian as it gets.
If you mean individualist anarchists of a different strain, of course some of them might be called Nietzschean, depending on specifics. Even then, however, as long as they have a fixed "social system" that they think is "the best" and should be imposed in a typically Benthamite way over society, they're not Nietzschean.
Left-anarchists tend to want a social system that will improve society as a whole. They are collectivists and want everyone to be happy together. Chomsky is exactly like this. A Bolivian peasant is for him as important as Shakespeare, for they're both humans with moral rights, etc.
I suppose you're probably talking about more "egoist" anarchists, but the discussion in this thread is more about Nietzsche and the left, I think.

>>21686516
Sorry, I meant overmothered.

>>21684296
Did he really rebel against it?
Afaik he just analyzed that there were two main competing moralities. It's a shallow and low IQ analysis, don't get me wrong, but did he really rebel against slave morality? Are you sure he thought master morality was preferable at all points in time and for all people?

>>21686565
>but did he really rebel against slave morality?
yes he did
>Are you sure he thought master morality was preferable at all points in time and for all people?
no he didnt

>>21686565
>>21686602
The ending of the first essay of the Genealogy of Morals makes it clear that he wants a revival of master morality:

>In a sense that was even more crucial and even more profound, Judaea proved yet once more victorious over the classical ideal in the French Revolution; the last political aristocracy that existed in Europe, that of the French in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, collapsed in the conflict with the instincts of a resentful populace – never had the world heard greater jubilation or witnessed more unrestrained exuberance! Indeed, the most monstrous and unexpected phenomenon took place in the midst of it: the ancient ideal itself swept before the eyes and conscience of humanity with all its life and with unheard-of splendour, and in opposition to resentment’s lying war-cry of the prerogative of the many, in opposition to man’s desire for baseness, abasement, equality, regression and decline, there rang out once again, stronger, simpler, more penetrating than ever, the terrible and enchanting counter-war-cry of the prerogative of the few! Like a final signpost to another path, Napoleon appeared, the most singular, the most anachronistic man that ever existed, and in him the incarnate problem of the aristocratic ideal in itself – consider well what a problem it is: Napoleon, that synthesis of the inhuman and the superhuman.

>Was it over then? Was that greatest of all conflicts of ideals thereby relegated ad acta for all time? Or only postponed, postponed for a long time?
Must there not take place at some time or other a much more awful flaring-up of the old conflagration, far longer in preparation? Further! Should not one wish that with all one’s strength? Even want it? Even demand it?
Whoever at this juncture begins, like my readers, to reflect, to think further, will have difficulty in coming quickly to a conclusion – which is reason enough for me to come to a conclusion myself, taking it for granted that for some time past what I intend has been sufficiently clear, what I intend exactly by that dangerous motto which is inscribed on the body of my last book: Beyond Good and Evil – at any rate that is not the same as ‘Beyond Good and Bad’.

>>21686627
Who is resentful, the Catholic aristocracy (Christendom) or atheistic-deistic revolutionaries?

Was it just slave vs slave?

>>21686181
Whoever you are poorly quoting got filtered hard by third hand information. Go figure.

>>21686236
>>21686327
I look like this and say this. I also have a huge cock.

>>21682530
What a dumb thread.

>>21686558
I’m talking about foundational anarchism, not Tolstoy, not Feuerbach or any other early Christian socialists.

Read
http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=F54DF9C8969E979D40FE8C8EA8EA8F18

>>21688588
Disregard link.
Way to go libgen

This is what I meant
http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=594F5F3A4FF7EBF6B4A5C7FC1BC104A3

>>21682530

>>21682609
Nice nametag faggot. First day?

>>21685423
Marx, and Marxists, have not and do not deny that humans and people are born unequal. The difference between the capitalist and the communist is that the capitalist homogenises the diverse human spirit into debased roles of owner and worker; consumer and producer; and the list goes on. Everything is subsumed into the entity of Capital. These fundamental contradictions are the driving force of class struggle, and the prior alienation under capitalism. When contradictions reach their peak, and there is the coming sublimation of this era of history, that we call communism -- it will bring the maximisation the human spirit and returns our species-being.

"In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all." And this is only in the 'festo.

>>21685730
t. doesn't know what marxism is

>>21682530
How was there any doubt?
> Whom do I hate most heartily among the rabbles of today? The rabble of Socialists, the apostles to the Chandala, who undermine the workingman’s instincts, his pleasure, his feeling of contentment with his petty existence—who make him envious and teach him revenge.... Wrong never lies in unequal rights; it lies in the assertion of “equal” rights.... What is bad? But I have already answered: all that proceeds from weakness, from envy, from revenge.—The anarchist and the Christian have the same ancestry....

>>21690258
Marxism went from libertarian to authoritarian “vanguardist”. He was, in the end, as the anon says.