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21613058 No.21613058 [Reply] [Original]

So I'm reading this and I understood it well, until Guenon started talking about religion and metaphysics, a few things of which he said about them kind of filtered me. Mostly the wording of what he said was kind of unintelligible to me. Here are some questions I have:
1) In what way do 'social and sentimental elements preponderate over the intellectual', such as in the case of Protestantism?
1.1) In what way is Catholicism more 'intellectual' whilst Protestantism is more 'sentimental'? (i.e. What's the difference between Catholic dogma and Protestant dogma (or the absence thereof)?)
2) What does Guenon mean by 'universal order' in this passage?:
>It may now be stated that metaphysics, understood in this way, is essentially the knowledge of the Universal, or, if preferred, the knowledge of principles belonging to the universal order,
3) What is the Aristotelian and Scholastic 'pure intellect', and how does one attain such a faculty?
4) When Guenon says,
>[...] the most essential difference between a metaphysical doctrine and a religious dogma; whereas the metaphysical point of view is purely intellectual, the religious point of view implies as a fundamental characteristic the presence of a sentimental element affecting the doctrine itself, which does not allow of its preserving an attitude of entirely disinterested speculation;
what does he mean by 'does not allow of its preserving an attitude of entirely disinterested speculation'? What does this clause mean?
5) In this passage:
>It can now be seen that the theological point of view is only a particularization of the metaphysical point of view, implying a proportional alteration; it is an application of it to contingent conditions, one might say, the mode of adaption being determined by the nature of the conditions to which it must respond, since after all these special exigencies furnish the only reason for its existence.
5.1) What are the 'contingent conditions'?
5.2) What is a 'mode of adaption'?
5.3) What is 'the nature of the conditions'?
6) What is the reasoning behind this statement, and how is Guenon trying to critique it?:
>[...] the immediate metaphysical truth 'Being is', when expressed according to the religious or theological mode, will give rise to another proposition, namely that 'God exists'; but the two statements would not be strictly equivalent except on the double condition of conceiving God as Universal Being—which is far from always being the case in fact—and of identifying existence with pure Being, which is metaphysically inexact.
7) What is the 'sphere of applications', mentioned in Chapter 7 'Symbolism and Anthropomorphism'?
Thanks in advance.

>> No.21613083

>>21613058
it's just annihilationism, guenon loves everything that is autistic depersonalization and believes he's adhering to some anti-human (which he euphemizes as supra-human) rigor

it's just buddhism

>> No.21613105

>>21613083
what do you mean by annihilationism?

>> No.21613492

>>21613058
just keep reading intro to hindu doctrines, east and west, crisis of the modern world, and reign of quantity
it will all click eventually after a couple times through

>> No.21613700

>>21613492
Bugger. I may not have chosen a good dissertation topic.

>> No.21613712

>>21613700
give it time, all your questions will be answered. he elaborates on a lot of the stuff in his other introductory social critique books
>What is the Aristotelian and Scholastic 'pure intellect', and how does one attain such a faculty?
through knowledge

>> No.21613837
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>>21613058
1) protestants are usually not very concerned about the metaphysics of christianity but rather the social and sentimental elements as demonstrated by american evangelicals: jesus would vote republican and jesus will save you through faith alone!
2) the universal order is the level of reality at which duality is no longer valid. "universal being" for example belongs to the universal order because Being itself is not separate from anything: there is nothing in the world that does not have the nature of being. you can't have two different instances of Being since to be is to exist and there cannot be more than one existence. non-duality (absence of separation or differentiation) is the fundamental characteristic of the universal order.
3) the pure intellect is nonconceptual thought, shapeless thought, thought without symbols, thought not bound by forms such as language, emotion, reason, or anything else that can be described. nonconceptual thought can be attained through meditation.
4) a religion such as christianity with a vested interest in love for christ and other sentimental elements cannot approach metaphysics in an objective way because a christian has already accepted christ as his saviour, a sentiment which will shape any metaphysical speculation he engages in.
5) he's essentially saying that theology is metaphysics adapted to a civilization more suited for sentimental than intellectual spirituality.
6) "Being is" is a more universal statement than "God exists" because it does not carry any presupposition of the existence of something that can be called "God", while the statement "Being is" is self-evident.
7) i believe "sphere of applications" refers to the things that symbols can be used for, rather than the principles behind the symbols themselves. like he says later in the chapter, the sacraments are used for psychical generation, which is their application, but this power derives from the principles that are symbolized in the rituals.

>> No.21614750

>>21613837
Thank you.

>> No.21614977

>3) What is the Aristotelian and Scholastic 'pure intellect', and how does one attain such a faculty?
He explains this in depth in Man and His Becoming, which you should read.
Really you should chill on asking questions about metaphysics until you've read his metaphysical core, which consists of
>Intro
>Man and His Becoming
>Symbolism of the Cross
>The Multiple States of Being
That is, after all, why he wrote the books. So you can learn about metaphysics by reading them.
>inb4 that's so much reading
The last three books are all like 100 pages each.

>> No.21615004

>>21613105
Annihilationism is the ideology that everything will be destructed ---even the soul, which Catholics believe indestructible.

>> No.21615013

>>21615004
Guenon didn't think this though, he even said the exact opposite, "nothing that is can ever truly cease to exist".

>> No.21615037

>>21615013
That guy who is a hylic who lies about Guenon in every Guenon thread

>> No.21615096

>>21613837
>3) the pure intellect is nonconceptual thought, shapeless thought, thought without symbols, thought not bound by forms such as language, emotion, reason, or anything else that can be described. nonconceptual thought can be attained through meditation.
In the part OP quoted, Guenon isn't talking about a "pure intellect" but he is just talking about how the metaphysical view is strictly intellectual and not sentimental, emotional etc. Guenon's explication of metaphysics is largely based on Shankara's Advaita, which doesn't appear to accept the premise that there is such a thing as "non-conceptual thought"

>> No.21615098

>>21615037
I figured, may he reincarnate as a baboon

>> No.21615130

>>21615013
i haven't read guenon; I was only answering to anon what annihilationism is

>> No.21615178
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>> No.21615311

>>21615013
Guenon also thought he wasn't a crypto-Buddhist. He said a lot of dumb shit.

Shankara is just a plagiarism of Buddhism. Guenonians cannot accept this fact and pretend that calling things by different words enables you to wave the problem away.

>> No.21615510

>>21615311
>Shankara is just a plagiarism of Buddhism.
Incorrect, Shankara doesn't adopt any teachings from Buddhism but he critiques it at length and his Advaita is just a straight-forward exegesis of the Upanishads.

>Guenonians cannot accept this fact and pretend that calling things by different words enables you to wave the problem away.
It sounds like you have been refuted before but you insist on continuing to cope despite being wrong

>> No.21615768

>>21615311
You say that like Buddhism is bad when its one of the great world traditions. Yeah Shankara was influenced by Buddhism. Dare I ask...who cares? I'm almost apprehensive at what stupid shit you're going to say now that I have lol

>> No.21616143

>>21615311
>Shankara is just a plagiarism of Buddhism.
Immediately outed yourself as a brainlet

>> No.21617011

>>21613058
Why has /lit/ beimea circle jerk board for pagan/hindu larpers

>> No.21617027
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21617027

>>21615311
MAY THE CRYPTO BUDDHISM WARS BEGIN AGAIN

>> No.21617405

bump

>> No.21617669
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