/lit/ - Literature

>>21320113
Get off /pol/.

>>21320113
They are a fictional race. All the races from Tolkien's universe have aspects of real life cultures but they aren't meant to 100% represent them.

>>21320113
(((Elves))) are a metaphor for jews actually, and in the end of lotr Frodo converts to judaism and sails to Valinor (Israel)

>>21320238
Tolkien is a famous philosemite (patrician taste) so I buy this interpretation.

>>21320113
>How can anyone seriously read the elves as anything other than a metaphor for europeans?

Elves are not meant to represent Europeans as a whole because there are actually 100% european inspired, physical traits included, in fantasy works. In Tolkien's fictional world, Elves take some of the aspects medieval Europeans tought/imagined of Romans and Ancient Greeks, that is, people of a much more advanced civilization, with almost magic-like knowledge, architecture and skills.

Europeans are actually best represented by Numenoreans. Orcs are a distant second.
>the most industrialized
>pouring steel while others are wearing leaves
>successfully militant, conquering, expanding, enslaving, exploring

Elves are obviously Christian angels.
>not of this world
>serving a higher, divine purpose
>different rules about afterlife and all that

Hobbits are Africans or jungle Asians like Vietnam etc.
>farming all day
>not enslaved by races who arent retarded gardeners thanks to plot armor and random retarded reasons that fall apart if you think about it for 3 seconds

Dwarves arent a specific race, they are simple middle or working class of the world.
>professionals
>at work all day
>work based values and culture
>not all that interesting or thought out as a race

Jews are obviously dark lords and fallen wizards.
>the most historically proven and consistent scheming, lying, stealing characters
>dont belong anywhere in the world
>causing trouble nonstop
>extreme desire to control the world

>>21320356
Hobbits are Britons. Dwarves are Jews. The Haradrim are Africans.

>>21320356
If you think a philosemite like Tolkien would portray Jews as anything but noble and ancient (dwarves) you are delusional.

>>21320378
his "admiration" for jews was purely performative, notice he says nothing about jews until after the war?

>>21320383
>The Germans have just as much right to declare the Poles and Jews exterminable vermin, subhuman, as we have to select the Germans: in other words, no right, whatever they have done. (To his son Christopher, September 1944)

>>21320399
>he has literally 30 years of letters and this is the first mention of jews

>>21320378
>goyslop nureading of amazon-tolkien
'no'

>>21320356
yes, rural brits are obviously hobbits, but there is nothing all that specific about rural brits to justify just them being jolly gardeners
bavaria had their own jolly gardeners
so did austria
so did every country

jews cant be dwarves because no jew in the history of jewing goyim has ever hit the shore to be a farmer, soldier, miner, or do ANY honest work, its always politician, lawyer, merchant

haradrim are closest to ottomans but its seriously irrelevant because out of 7 trillion pages of silmarillion, haradrim get like half a page, they are just some dumb far away foreigners with violent tendencies

>>21320356
>I do think of the 'Dwarves' like Jews: at once native and alien in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their own private tongue. (To Rayner Unwin,December1955)

>>21320404
>>21320412
This is from 1938:
>I do not regard the (probable) absence of all Jewish blood as necessarily honourable; and I have many Jewish friends, and should regret giving any colour to the notion that I subscribed to the wholly pernicious and unscientific race-doctrine.
The idol of all the /pol/tards is a man who: a) Had many Jewish friends, b) Told the Nazis to fuck off, and c) Didn't believe their racial pseudoscience.

Just lovely. Can't wait to read your cope.

>>21320420
>jew = le funny accent xDD
dropped
tolkien was obviously a retard who didnt know anything about real world if all he could think about the jews was an accent

>>21320446
>a guy who desperately wanted to get his work published had to do this
Proves nothing

>>21320459
>NOOOOO HE ONLY MENTIONED JEWS AFTER THE WAR SO IT DOESN'T COUNT
>NOOOOO HE WANTED TO GET HIS WORK PUBLISHED BEFORE THE WAR, IT DOESN'T COUNT

>>21320457
>at once native and alien in their habitations
This is the key.

tolkien is for trannies anyway
his politics are 'technology bad, midget gardeners good', his world purely fantastical and having no relations to reality, not even one bit
who reads fantasy and childrens books these days? leftists and women
who owns tolkien rights today? amazon, a leftist globohomo corporation pandering to trannies, leftists and women

lotr movies were about all white, homogenous, peaceful and productive population in medieval setting being invaded by feral, burn-loot-murder (blm?), dark cannibalistic hyperviolent race that only destroys, and pseudo euros finally throwing the dark pest out
original lotr movies have nothing to do with tolkien, character names are accidental, simple as

>>21320486
>jew is someone with a funny accent because tolkien said so, please ignore the part where they get kicked out of 300 historical countries because of all the cheating, lying, stealing, scheming, financial and political crimes
alright guess jew is just someone who talks funny idk, fantasy author said so

Europeans changed their environment dramatically and ended up destroying a lot of it
Europeans were the ones who first started proper industrialisation
Europeans progressed a lot over the centuries from the medieval ages to the early modern era to the modern era
That doesn't seem very elf like to me

lmao I'm enjoying the seethe

>>21320255
Do you even hear yourself

>>21320532
What seems to be the problem, pal?

>>21320542
The ethnonarcisism

>>21320544
Only gentiles can be philosemites.
A Jew that loves Jewish culture is just a... Jew.
No specific term.

>>21320544
It's le based and redpilled when the /pol/tards do it. Do you even hear yourself?

>>21320555
I have never encountered a white nationalist that is as ethno narcissistic as even the average Jew. Hitler even couldnt stop himself from declaring japs to be honorary aryans. Can you imagine Jews ever declaring another race to be honorary jews

>>21320238
The dwarves were Tolkien's Jewish analogs, they were so naturally corrupted that Sauron wasn't even able to seduce them through the rings of power, the ambient evil just enhanced their Jewish trickery and made them even greedier

>>21320332
This is so fucking retard
>They aren't meant to represent Europeans
>because they are 100% European-inspired.
Yeah right, kill yourself

>>21320589
Hitler had different views than /pol/tards. He allied with the Italians. For example, /pol/tards don't even view Italians as white. Modern white nationalists are very ethno-narcissist and more shallow than Jews.

>>21320589
The Yad Vashem Law authorizes Yad Vashem "to confer honorary citizenship upon the Righteous Among the Nations, and if they have died, the commemorative citizenship of the State of Israel, in recognition of their actions". Anyone who has been recognized as "Righteous" is entitled to apply to Yad Vashem for the certificate. If the person is no longer alive, their next of kin is entitled to request that commemorative citizenship be conferred on the Righteous who has died.[citation needed]
The Righteous Diploma of Maria Kotarba

In total, 27,921 (as of 1 January 2021)[4] men and women from 51 countries have been recognized,[4] amounting to more than 10,000 authenticated rescue stories. Yad Vashem's policy is to pursue the program for as long as petitions for this title are received and are supported by evidence that meets the criteria.[5]

Recipients who choose to live in the State of Israel are entitled to a pension equal to the average national wage and free health care, as well as assistance with housing and nursing care.

>>21320633
Half of pol is literally Latinos and indians and arabs. Almost all modern white nationalism is based on opposing mass immigration, not on master race ideas. Jews on the other hand their literal religion tells them they're better than everyone else and the entire secular culture is also built around how special and unique they are. It's extremely tedious

>>21320459
>NOOO... HE ONLY MENTIONED JEWS TO GET HIS WORK PUBLISHED...DONT YOU KNOW ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO PUBLISH A BOOK IF YOU DON'T WRITE A PRIVATE LETTER SAYING YOU HAVE JEWISH FRIENDS.
Holy copium, Batman, you hit this guy so hard he acquired a brain injury

>>21320646
Never heard of this, kind of based desu

The Rohirrim and Gondorians/Arnorians were the metaphors for Europeans. The Numenoreans were enriched by elven blood and lived extensive lifespans compared to any modern human, they would be more comparable to antediluvian/Adamic humans from Genesis than anything else. Elves are completely incomprehensible to any human civilization because they're a different species: they don't even reckon time in the same way as we do.

>>21320661
Also, theoretically, elves should still be around today, just hidden from sight. Tolkien referred to the elves that remained in Middle-Earth (virtually all of whom had always been in Middle-Earth, it was all they knew) as 'the lingerers'. Basically, their souls would overwhelm their mortal corpus and they would become invisible to sight for most men, except those they chose to reveal themselves to. There should be hobbits and dwarves around too, in not-dissimilar circumstances (hidden from sight, secreted in the rare corners of the Earth rather than actually invisible like the lingerers).

>Moreover, the Lingerers are not houseless, though they may seem to be. They do not desire bodies, neither do they seek shelter, nor strive for mastery over body or mind. Indeed they do not seek converse with Men at all, save maybe rarely, either for the doing of some good, or because they perceive in a Man's spirit some love of things ancient and fair. Then they may reveal to him their forms (through his mind working outwardly, maybe), and he will behold them in their beauty. (Morgoth’s Ring (HoME 10.The Later Quenta Sil., Laws and Customs among the Eldar )

>my beloved whiterinos are not narcissist, they good bois and noble
this entire thread >>>21320376

>>21320113
cos before D+D existed elves were child-abducting river gremlins or trickster leprechauns, they arent anybody. except in really convoluted way where those mythological creatures were christian propaganda against local mythology.

... if we traced the elves back from the things tolkein used to invent them we'd probably discover that they were irish.

>>21320171
>but they aren't meant to 100% represent them.
or even 1%, since humans exist in the story and so nothing can be a 'metaphor' 'for' them if they're already there.

>>21320378
>If you think a philosemite like Tolkien would portray Jews as anything but noble and ancient (dwarves) you are delusional.
where does this come from? Jews don't have any history of smithing or mining or any practical work; that's low slaves work, in their society.

jews are not called "knut ironfounderson", the dwarves are obviously vikings.

Literally everyone in Tolkien has fair skin anyway so the point is moot. At least, all the hero races do.

People are misunderstanding OP. It's not about race. It's about 2 people (Elves & Europeans) being exhausted by history and having their best days behind them, passing power to a lesser race

>>21321054
Dwarves were inspired by Jews.

>>21321074
>It's not about race.
>passing power to a lesser race
??

>>21321098
the comparison is not about race

>>21321093
Wow, that's a really high IQ response: a repeating of your position as if it hadn't been refuted. Don't you faggots know how to use semi colons?

>>21321140
Refute what, retard? That's what Tolkien himself said. It's the canonical view.

>>21321054
>>21321054
>a philosemite like Tolkien would portray Jews as
the hobbits themselves or the wizards, even; because that's how he portrays himself and if he really liked the huthu or the chinese then he'd portray them exactly like him: reclining in an english village with a pipe and lots of books and his shoes off.

fr though; dwarves as jews is laughable, you only say it because you see a white man with a big nose and equate the evil merchant meme with the dwarf... what of the overtly obvious viking imagery, names, activities, runes, muscles, going-into-battle etc. reminds you of any jewish trait?

answer straight this time, philo or your whole city goes up in flames >>21321093 >>21320378

caracal.gif

>>21321151
lol he did? was he fucking on crack?

look here,
> what of the overtly obvious viking imagery, names, activities, runes, muscles, going-into-battle etc. reminds you of ------any-------- jewish trait?

>>21321151
imma write a book about obviously black ghetto americans in gangs doing stuff, and tell everybody that one of the gangs; the most stereotypically ghetto black in every single way, are actually supposed to be tiberan buddhists.

>>21321164
>>21321180
>They had a tendency toward gold lust and committed their share of rash and greedy acts.
> warlike race who would fight fiercely against whoever aggrieved them including Dwarves of "other mansions and lordships".
They're Jews. Let it go.

>>21321189
they're obviously not. They're using norse runes and are dressed like vikings.

I don't know whether you're a jew trying to aggrandize jews by letting them larp as pgan norse, or whether you're just a confused boy.It's not the first time I've heard this though. bizarre.

>>21321205
I think the dwarves might be a medley of different races. Could include both Nordics and Jews, or features of each.

>>21321205
That's the thing with Tolkien. He took foreign myths and made a pastiche. The dwarves were spiritually inspired by Jews (he said so himself) even though the aesthetic suggests other thing. Dwarves are the Jews of his world.

elves = asians
men = europeans
dwarves = scots or jews
hobbits = englishmen
orcs = brown hordes
uruk-hai = africans

>>21321525
The Haradrim are Africans. Orcs and Uruk-hai do not represent real-life ethnicities.

>>21321555
orcs and uruk-hai definitely have some connection to the concepts of gog and magog, which then have a connection to some kind of north or northeast asia group with a reputation for high brutality

>>21320113
kill yourself

>>21321525
So men were living in huts and spitting in their water cups for 99% of their history while orcs were founding civilization itself for thousands of years before men even figured out how to read
makes sense

>>21320113
The tired, arrogant and decadent Elves leaving the world in the hands of the stubborn and full of energy Men reeks to me of the British conceding Empire to the Americans.

>>21320113
It’s pretty funny to read fifty ish comments and you retards don’t get it. Ever since Tolkien homogenized modern fantasy, elves are OBVIOUSLY Native American allegory.

Long hair. Tall. High cheekbones. Animal husbandry. Knowledge of herbs and the land for healing. In tolkien, and other modern fantasy like the Witcher, they’re here before “man”, which is the white man on North America. They live one with nature and build their homes in trees. A “dying” and or dwindling race with limited numbers. Arrogance. Pride. All stereotypes applied to colonial natives when white men were annoyed they couldn’t share hunting grounds, or vitamin c leaves.

It’s really quite obvious and it’s doubly obvious you’re all too retarded to notice. Don’t mind me, I’ll just carry on knowing I’m smarter than you all

>>21322158
Oh yeah, forgot one, BOWS N ARROWS NIBBAS like that’s just a casual coincidence, Legolas the most white native man who ever fictionally lived dat hair rite

>>21322185
>>21322158
OH YEAH ANOTHER ONE

natives were considered to have long lived because they would outlive their colonial and white counterparts when landing on the new world. White men would show up and just fucking die from scurvy or exposure or whatever. Whereas the natives would hunt and drink cedar leaves and somehow live longer than many rotations of settlers. Which lent to their stereotype of long lives

Another is the marriage and breeding of native women (Arwen) and white men (Aragorn) in primordial North American. White men were promised land and a native wife, if they came to the new land, so they could marry into land rights to privileged hunting grounds.

>>21320113
Isn't there some quote of his where Tolkien goes in to say that his writing isn't allegorical because allegory requires that one has to have a specific event in mind to allegorize, where as his work is based off of archetypes so people can read anything into the frameworks that fit that archetype? Stating that that is what all great art does and that allegory is a cowardly imitation of great work or something like that. Thats how.

Tolkien's races are like the people in The Dark City movie, endless rehashes that can no longer be tracked to the original ones.

Didn't Tolkien himself say his stories aren't allegorical?

>>21322158
The elves are blond

I’m a chud and I don’t think elves are a metaphor for Europeans. If anything, they’re closer to something like our conception of mythical heroes and peoples you find in stuff like Beowulf and Greek epics but that’s still a stretch. Also to all the political shitflinging itt I have the final word: he was basically a mildly “cultural racist” because he thought biological racism was unchristian because it mostly precludes the possibility of redemption. Also, he wasn’t thrilled about allied victory in WW2 not because he wanted Natsocs to win but because he knew it meant that America would dominate the world. He wanted a RETVRN to some sort of Christian feudalism but didn’t seem to think anywhere that RETVRN was possible. The elder days when gods walked the earth have passed

>>21322774
Depends on the group. Some had dark hair:
>The Noldor, Sindar, and Avari - had dark brown or black hair, as in the cases of Finwë or Maeglin. Lúthien Tinúviel and her remote descendant Arwen Undómiel, both described as the fairest of all Elves, were dark haired.

>>21322158
Elves are not generally hippy forest dwellers. If you read the Silmarillion you will see what they were like in the beginning, and why they have been reduced to the state you see them in in LoTR (hint: it’s basically because they weren’t religious enough)

>>21322866
regarding this,
>Elves are not generally hippy forest dwellers. If you read the Silmarillion you will see what they were like in the beginning, and why they have been reduced to the state you see them in in LoTR
I always felt the Orcs were a negative PR spin made-flesh and that their cause was valid and not t all represented accurately. They're "generic enemy" but when examining the Elves and the Humans you notice that the Elves and the Humans do have a pretty awful past and were surely upset enough people to warrant a coalition being formed against them.

>>21322158
>, elves are OBVIOUSLY Native American allegory.
again they are using runes

Closest actual world precedent for the Elves, if they were resembling with their traits some real world great fallen empire with uber-tech, would more likely be Byzantium. Reduced to a single city, highly competent archers and polo players, powerful city reduced to using bis of its own masonry as catapult ammunition, vs. horde of turks.

Only difference between IRL and Elves is that the Westen Europeans were too cowardly to go and quest to save them. And also invaded them and pillaged their city.

>>21321213
>Dwarves are the Jews of his world.
So who are the Dwarves of his world?

Elves are just proto Wakandians

>>21320623
Dwarves = non-zionist jews of Tolken's time, who were obsessed with fleecing wealth off the goyim and so wanted to remain in eur- er middle-earth
Elves = zionist jews who, at least at Tolken's time, were more noble than their dwarf counterparts and wanted their own homeland completely separate from the rest of middle earth.
Just because the dwarf jews won irl and turned Israel into the largest welfare state on the planet and a global safe haven for jewish pirates and cheats, that doesn't mean there weren't some noble elven jews who were willing to fight for a separatist state and found kibbutzes where they would live off the fruit of their own labors.
If there were more elven jews instead of dwarf jews, I doubt there would be much antisemitism or problems with jews.

>>21324461
Dwarves make their own riches through hard labour, kikes are entirely parasitic
there is no equivalency

>>21324648
t. didn't read the part in the silmarillion where they tried to jack a silmaril they had no right to solely because they fixed it into a piece of jewelry

>>21324766
doesn't change the fact that they're portrayed as hardworking to superhuman extremes while jews rely solely on sociopathic manipulation
it's not an allegory, it's a mash-up and a flight of fancy

>>21324783
>hardworking to superhuman extremes
*revokes bilbo's 1/14th share in the lonely mountain's treasure solely because he sided with the humans in trying to prevent all out war
*tries to start a war with the men of lake-town because they dared to ask for - oy vey - a reward for slaying the massive dragon solely by their own might
*thorin continues to kvetch until death

>>21324783
>jews rely solely on sociopathic manipulation
statistically not possible

>>21324804
yeah, their greed and selfishness might resemble that of jews, but the other main trait of their race is that they're also extremely, insanely hardy labourers which kikes definitely are not

>>21324783
Jews do work hard though. They have an unfortunate tendency to defraud the goyim but they're still very industrious people. Almost hyper active tbqh. And like think about some Jew like Spinoza who spent his life grinding bits of glass or whatever it was he did and then also wrote all that stuff.

>>21324832
*goes to sleep or disregards the war of the ring and makes the rest of the free peoples do their dirty work, sending only their retarded scion gimli who likely asked for - oy vey - a raise, prior
*profits off of the proceeds by recolonizing moria
*continues to kvetch to this day through 4chan

>>21324648
>Dwarves make their own riches through hard labour
>have secret gold mines where they can seemingly get money out of nothing
>they obsess greedily over doing this
I take this as a metaphor for usury, which would fit the dwarf jews quite well.

>>21324970
>have sole monopolies over the single most precious resource on the planet (mithril)
>have sole monopolies on the entire craft industry of working mithril, to the point where nobody else could even begin to start utilizing it even if they found a deposit
>never let the secret out, taking it to their withdrawal from mannish society
>oy veys thousands of years later on 4chan whenever someone points this out

>>21323247
>fallen empire with uber-tech, would more likely be Byzantium
lmfao, Byzantines lost their "tech superiority" by the 7th fucking century, if you even want to state that as ever being a thing to anybody besides barbarian infested western europe. They were finally conquered because they were using medieval tech and defense tactics against new tech and tactics employed by the ottomans.
Jesus Christ, just the name "byzantine" became a term to refer to outdated bullshit
>reduced to using bis of its own masonry as catapult ammunition, vs. horde of turks
Constantinople was a shithole for centuries before the 1453 conquest, it was a collection of hovels and empty fields inside the walls. Even the old emperors palace was abandoned and crumbling
Ottomans turned it into the richest and most populous city in the world in under a century once they took it
>Westen Europeans were too cowardly to go and quest to save them
Or western europeans were retarded. Why "save them" exactly? I want you to understand that your little meme identification with this meme narrative of history was invented centuries after the conquest, then had a little revival among the retard class of virgin strategy gamers

>>21320113
Elves were the celts. It is known

>>21324461
>zionrat subhuman muttmeat larping invading shitraelis
>noble
kill yourself
An equivalent to shitraelis is a few men who cut their eyes like elves and then adopt evlish names "returning" to their "homeland" with an army of men, killing all the elves there because their culture changed and now have different names, and then finding books in elvish to learn the new language and complete the larp

>>21325059
*Or western europeans weren't retarded

>>21322231
>>21322695
That quote you are talking about is some kind of mandela effect bullshit. In reality all george r. r. tolkien could talk about was how his work was purely derivative from what he experienced in the trenches.

>>21325059
smells like malding r*ach in here

>>21322158
>>21322185
>>21322215
Americabs are vile, crude, stupid, and disgusting vermin who should be exterminated by all nations of the earth and have their bloody severed heads placed on pikes.

>>21320238
1/10

Do better, tranny.

>>21320113
Look, I'm as bothered by that faggot chink who keeps arguing Elves are standins for Chinese in every /tg/ thread as any other white european male would be, but coming here seems as bit excessive.

>>21325777
>white european
that's redundant.

All the races of middle earth represent or draw from specific aspects of different European people. The stories are also obviously influenced directly by European myth and legend. The Tuatha De from ancient Ireland are a lot like the elves. There are many tales like that of the Tuatha De in mythology, outside of Europe too. Dwarves are clearly similar to jews in some ways, although dwarves living in mountains comes from European lore. Hobbits are the English commoners, there was also a race of really short people living in pre-historic britain, look up skara brae, its a 5000 year old hobbit town. The analogy between orcs and blacks is apt too, funnily enough.

Point is, Tolkien wasn't trying to represent one particular group in the various races of middle earth, except in the case of hobbits.

>>21325777
>Elves are standins for Chinese
Top kek

LOTR is supposed to be an alternative history of England. The Elves (and High Men) represent a mythological age of legend, magic, and heroism in which seemingly anything was possible. As time passes the legendary age fades and is overtaken by the modern age now dominated by the myopic, foolhardy, callous, though at times undeniably brave mortal men whose bloodlines have decayed and degraded due to intermixing with lesser lineages.

Thats what LoTR is about. Its a lamentation about the death of the romantic and magical medieval worldview as it is succeeded by the cool, scientific, industrial one.

Anyone who posts anything contradicting this is a subhuman retard.

>>21325851
actually it's just a story about elves and wizards and magic n shieeet