/lit/ - Literature

y'all better bump the thread next time

found an error in Jackson's interlinear Homer, this should be subjunctive and η not ε; I knew the meter wasn't feeling right

>>21308427
clementiam rogo

>>21308427
The thread better refrain from turning into a self-praising circlejerk next time.

Do you recognise this word? I checked my dictionary and online dictionaries and found jack shit for "Durmionia". Is it two words fused together? is it a spelling mistake? Am I just a retard?

>>21308603
Might be a surname

>>21308603
Apparently Durmius is an ancient Roman gentile nomen, so Durmionius would be the regular adjective "pertaining to Durmonius", hence the female name

.

>>21308603
"POLVORIA" I think is a bit more mysterious, with a bit of digging, I think it's actually polyōria, from πολυωρέω, aka to treat very carefully
so I guess While trying to impress this young Durmionian damsel with utmost care he accidentally fell and died being dragged by his horse after getting his foot stuck on the stirrup

>

>>21308424
1/2

So, there are apparently 2 latin translations of The Little Prince. Which one is more better?

Pic related. Regulus (2001), translation by Antoine de Haury.

>>21308424
>>21310173
2/2

Pic related.
Regulus (2010), translation by Alexander Winkler.

>>21309996
This whole inscription gave alot of trouble. I didn't get past the "if you love but if you don't love" bit.
I think i'll go back to all those "latin texts for school boys" books that circulate online. I found more success there.
God help me. I'll have my final exam next year and i can barely work with latin

>be me
>memed into studying Latin
>pick up copy of wheelcuck
>read book, go through exercises, do flash cards, make little progress
>see frenly anon shilling Dowling Method
>obtain (steal) some notepads
>begin copying down noun declensions from wheelcuck a gorillian times
>N1: wtf is this how can it even fit on the the page?
>N2: (immediately try again) kinda fits reasonably
>N3: sorta knowing the first declension from flashcards (but not really)
>N4: figure out how to format table so that it isn't awful
>N5: start Noticing that the plural dative is the plural ablative, Every Single Fucking Time
>N6: start making mnemonics: "the gift to the king", "the city by the sea"
>N7: time it, takes half an hour
>N8: the king orders -ōrum changed to -um
>N9: and -īs to -ibus
>N10: start remembering what they all are, checking against book
>N11: start marking errors. 16 wrong.
>N13: 19 wrong. have to be careful when checking answer, to not read the next one
>N17: get annoyed that I keep getting rēgī wrong in particular
>N18: write "rēgī" and "corpus" a bunch of times, trying to remember them
>N20: 15 errors. Know "the treachery of the sea" and "the loyalty of the citizen to his king".
>N23: pen runs out of ink, switch to pencil
>N30: 2 errors
>N32: 0 errors, 7 pauses/guess-and-checks; but mostly getting 2-3 errors each time
>N35: also doing flash cards
>N38: way harder than tables because you have to figure out what random place you jumped to
>N40: 2 errors, 7 pauses
>N48: time it, takes 10 minutes
>N49: 0 errors, 4 pauses
>N50: 0 errors, 1 pause. Run out of notepad.
>N51: use back pages
>N52: obvious diminishing returns; quicker to just say them outloud.
>N??: practicing reverse direction, visualizing the related table cells; critical to reading
>V1: take a sneek peak at verbs
>V2: it is terrifying, do adjectives instead
>A1: surprisingly easy to fit in second notepad
>A2: oh yeah they're just like nouns
>A3: difficulty remembering the weirder abstract paradigms
>A4: be really confused by how to pronounce potēns
>A5: 23 minutes
>A6: 28 minutes. Spend more time matching up, comparing the noun columns with the adjective columns
>A7: why is there this random -ī in the Two-Ending's ablative singular
>A8: it's from marī
>A11: start checking answers. 6 errors, 6 pauses.
>A13: 7 errors, 5 of which are in fortior, wtf I hate this paradigm.
>A15: and potēns is also hard
>A17: finally figure out that potēns has no surprising macrons, except for the nominative singular
>A18: (Today.) 1 error, 2 pauses
>See Latin out in the wild
>Kind of understand some of the words
Every able-minded male Savior of the Aryan Race should do this.

>>21308424
I could not find anywhere a Septuagint digital text, or printed really, other than one PDF where the letters are messed up and some "sqlite3" files. Very strange.

>>21310173
>>21310177
don't actually know the story but the second reads better to me and more classical

>>21310249
just use LLPSI lol

>>21310306
Digital Septuagint, with the Deuterocanon and other books on ebible, just look for "grcbrent"

>>21310306
I posted it for you last thread but you are too dumb to open a djvu file.

>>21308427
Here's to the fucking retard a couple threads back who wanted to split it into a 'historical languages general' or some dumb crap despite several of us telling him that fails every time. Hey you dumb negro, if /clg/ 404s so easily how would making it even more niche help?

>>21308424
How do you learn greek declensions? I have Anki for vocab but find it very difficult to memorize articles and endings.

>>21308424
/clg/chads , sry for the cringe question are there any suicide letters in latin or ancient greek ?

>>21310452
Do the fucking the exercises.
And then,
Do them again.

average literature fan

>>21310528
Although not an actual suicide letter, Ovid wrote a poem from the perspective of Queen Dido right before she kills herself. It's letter 7 of the Heroides. She curses him and says that her suicide is not only her death, but the death of their unborn child.

>>21310306
The Septuagint is pretty east to find. Go make some friends irl to hold your hand, or I'd be willing to accept payment to do it.

>>21310173
>>21310177
For what it's worth the 2nd is easy for me to read, and the first is confusing.

>>21310654
>Do the fucking the exercises.
no

>>21311300
Thanks.

"midwit" is a meme buzzword used by those who profess they don't need to learn the basics of subjects against those who want to learn.

>>21308424
χίρετε. ἀπὸ τοῦ ἀρχοῦ βινῆσαι ὑμᾶς ἐθέλω

Why don't bots ever post in a classical language? Are they capable?

>>21312220
I can do a character.ai test, if you want

>>21312220
est garum bonum tibi?

>>21312269
Update: This one bot (Julius Caesar, how fitting) understands but responds in English.

Update to the update: I got a response in Latin finally

>>21312336
Is it in our best interests to improve an AI's understanding of niche languages? I'm inclined to not do so.

>>21312427
I mean it could be good practice in a way

>>21312304
yu rike fat ass yboi? I ea too many dumprings now my ass so fat!

The absolute state of /clg/

>>21311300
>Go make some friends irl to hold your hand, or I'd be willing to accept payment to do it.
l- lewd

>>21310874
thank you , seems interesting

>etenim si delectamur, cum scribimus, quis est tam invidus, qui ab eo nos abducat?
quid putaret cicero de 4chan

ΑΘΛΙΟΙ ΥΜΑΣ ΟΙΚΤΕΙΡΩ ΠΕΡΙ ΤΑΥΤΑ ΑΝΑΣΤΡΕΦΟΜΕΝΟΥΣ

>>21312553
say it in latin nigger

now that my new HRT has arrived I may finally start with latin
I'm going to enjoy BTFOing grammar-retards so much

>>21312908
libellos Ciceronis cum nondum legerim nequeo diligenter respondere, profecto nil boni
censeo lecturum scriptoribus graecis satis bene exploratis

>>21313408
>cum nondum legerim
then why even reply? What you 'censeo' is worthless

>>21313447
quid? barbaros non intellego abhorreoque, ante omnes valde anglice latrantes, profecto ne quidem intellegisti sensum secundi versus

>>21310173
>cum sex

>>21313408
>indicis non incepit
ngmi
>barbaros non intellego abhorreoque, ante omnes valde anglice latrantes
risi
t. barbarus

>>21313352
Low-level Esperanto tranny LARP. You know, it almost makes you trans. You enjoy LARPing as a tranny just like trannies enjoy LARPing as the opposite gender.

>>21313352
HRT, unironically, has been proven to enhance language acquisition proneness tho (women are better at languages just like men are better at maths, basically)

Goodnight clg

>>21313969
I'm a man and I'm shit at maths and really good at languages

then again I'm probably just an autist

>>21314526
Goodnight amicus

>>21314825
>>21313352
also why wreck your body's hormones for "le funny btfo grammar-retards"

Just use Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata man, it's free

>>21314526
Good night.

>>21310249
bro save yourself sometime and set aside an hour and stare at this conjugation table. thats all it takes

>>21313466
>barbaros non intellego abhorreoque
*barbaros abhorreo nec intellego

I'm almost done with LLPSI bros. It feels good. I'm past all the chapters that filter most people. Everyone I've seen who makes it into the 20s chapters has finished the book.

>>21316702
Good work anon, are you on Familia Romana or Roma Aeterna?

>>21316934
FR. I'm almost done. I'm over the hump and each chapter is pretty easy at this point. 2 days and then I move onto the next.

>>21316950
Good. What's your favourite chapter, and why? Conversely, what's your least favourite?

>>21316955
Favorite is 15 because I actually laughed out loud. 22 was nice as well because it was short and simple. Least favorite is 13. That shit was brutal. Just expositional info dump.

>>21316955
they're both the same chapter: my favorite moment is when when the doctor finally tries to perform a gender confirmation surgery on one of the kids due to a wrong gender assignment at birth (you have to know how to read between lines, Orberg was actually an ally) and my least favorite is when Iulius (the eternal "chud" archetype) prevent it.

>>21316956
I can see that. I left my copies of LLPSI back Stateside so when I go back in a few weeks I'm gonna get back into it

>>21316970
bait

>>21316983
>I'm gonna get back into it
Did you finish it?

>>21316985
Unfortunately no, but I want to. I've got both FR and RA, as well as Fabylae Syrae and a Vulgate so I'll never run out of material for the forseeable future

In regard to Greek as a brief sidenote, the same is true of Athenaze 1 and 2 (Italian; PDF), a Septuagint, Greek NT, and other Greek-language texts.

>>21317002
How far did you get?

Good morning clg

>>21317003
Around chapter 7, I'm also a university student so my primary studies come first. I study linguistics, political science, stuff like that.

I hope to go to grad school for historical linguistics though.

>>21317028
If you can make it through 8-13, it becomes a lot smoother. The chapters get longer, but they are less boring.

Caesar is a lot harder than the Vulgate

>>21317125
but the Vulgate is the Word of God, so it's better

>>21317033
I plan on, but I'm considering starting from square one again, just to get my bearings back in Latin. I can pronounce just fine in either Classical or Ecclesiastical Latin, but for non-religious texts I tend to go Classical

If you want an example of me "speaking" in Ecclesiastical Latin I'd be happy to provide a vocaroo

>>21317134
Do speaking in classical too

>>21317134
Caesar regit; Deus debilitatus

>>21317135
Ecclesiastical (Mark 10:17-21): https://voca.ro/1bEy5RBFxcjN

Classical (LLPSI chapter 2, lines 1-7):
https://voca.ro/14Zkkh1qhO10

>>21317195
Christus Vincit
Christus Regnat
Christus Imperat

>>21317209
Holy shit this actually sounds.....good?

>>21317338
Which one?

I still got kinks to iron out in my opinion, however for the first time of me "speaking" Latin in a good while I think I did decent enough

>>21317428
>I still got kinks to iron out in my opinion
I just mean the accent. I wasn't actually paying attention to whether or not you were following the pronunciation rules correctly for consonants or if you did vowel length accurate. Maybe the bar is just low because of the horrible burger accents I'm used to hearing.
>Which one?
You do Ecclesiastical more naturally and confidently, but they both sound good.

>>21317430
>pronunciation rules for consonants
Yes.
>vowel length accurate
I believe so, I ran it through a macronizer to get phonemic vowel length marked down if I am being honest

>Do Ecclesiastical more naturally and confidently
I do end up using it more than Classical, simply because I do a lot of my prayers and work in the Church in Latin. Would you believe me if I told you I learned Classical pronunciation initially though?

>both sound good
Thanks anon, but I learned and got pointers from a friend of mine, ScorpioMartianus/Polymathy on YouTube

>>21314825
>I'm a man and I'm shit at maths and really good at languages
>then again I'm probably just an autist
probably just high estrogen during pregnancy, nothing to worry about

>>21317125
Both are equally hard when you can read neither

Any of you willing to take a stab at sourcing the proverb of Cato alluded to in this passage of the Canterbury Tales? I'm assuming its Cato the Elder, in some passage of De agri cultura.

>>21318378
Fuck

>>21318381
>>21318378
Not the real Cato: https://chaucer.fas.harvard.edu/pages/cato-catoun

>>21318396
Thanks. Fuck me, I'm using Harvard's online translation anyways but of course their shitty little website doesn't provide hyperlinks or footnotes to anything, up to and including their own analysis.

>>21317439
>Thanks anon, but I learned and got pointers from a friend of mine, ScorpioMartianus/Polymathy on YouTube
You talk to the man, or are you saying you watch his videos?

>>21310306
There was a dude in the last thread who posted a link.

>>21318871
Both. Him and I have had wonderful conversations before

>>21318245
considering my brother is on the spectrum I highly doubt that

Utinam omnes anonimi linguam se didicerint

Goodnight again clg. I redid the sententiae antiqvae on my Wheelock chapter because I was disappointed with how many I got wrong yesterday. No further Latin work other than daily anki vocab, but I did go to the gym. Just another step to becoming a classical Übermensch who will LITERALLY save the white race and western civilization. Night.

>>21318940
Are you Simon Roper? I recently found that guy on YouTube, and your story roughly fits his.

>>21319589
No, I am not Simon Roper. I only wish to be as good at Old English as he is. I'm not a YouTube personality, not much of a public figure. Just a university student in undergrad currently.

>https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/aug/15/why-its-time-to-stop-worrying-about-the-decline-of-the-english-language

inb4 the guardian
Is it true that we mustn't worry about the decline of the English language? The tranny that pens that article cites a few decent examples but most of it is drivel imo

>>21319905
I'm thinking about doing either biblical hebrew. Any anon up to do something like that?

>>21319454
>I redid the sententiae antiqvae on my Wheelock chapter because I was disappointed with how many I got wrong yesterday.
CHAD
>anki
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
>I did go to the gym.
CHAD
>save the white race
You keep getting my spirits up and then letting me down.

>>21318378
>>21318381
Distichs of Cato, but not really by Cato

>>21320787
>hating anki
BASED
>hating the white race
CRINGE

>>21321581
>hating the white race
When did I do that? If he really wants to "save the white race" he will go outside and impregnate a white woman 10 times instead of shitposting as a sexless dork.

>>21320730
based, Biblical Hebrew is a pretty important language. In a way it can be considered a classical language just as Greek or Latin would be, though some in the thread would probably spear me for making this point

>>21320584
From a linguistic point of view the decline of English is sad to see. People are getting lazy and this affects communication, and can lead to a very simplified language that will just stop being English at one point

I'm of the mind that we must actively fight against this degeneration of the English language

>>21321752
>I'm of the mind that we must actively fight against this degeneration of the English language
>No punctuation.

>>21321740
A classical language is a language that contains a large volume of praised language-based art. I use that term because Homer is at the peak of Classical Greek, yet he did not write, hence his poetry was language-based art but not writing.
There are Classical Sanskrit and Classical Chinese, but they have had little impact on the West up until very recently. Even so, a classical language or text should not be evaluated on the basis of its importance to neighboring cultures, at least not exclusively, but rather on the basis of its impact on its own culture. Therefore, Middle Egyptian, Ge'ez (Classical Ethiopic), Classical Syriac, and Classical Arabic should be considered classical languages in addition to your Latin, Greek, Hebrew list.
That is my position. A Classics-based approach should extend to all of these languages and literatures. Universities and Classics departments are compromising on this, and it's good to see. Many universities now have NELC (Near Eastern Languages and Classics) or CANES (Classics and Ancient Near Eastern Studies) Departments. I think we can consider this broadening of the definition of C(c)lassics to be a very good thing for us because it fortifies us against harmful elements. These harmful elements I am referring to are the ones on display at the SCS 2019 Annual Meeting Q&A. I feel very glad to be in Semitic studies in addition to Classics (Greek and Latin) because there is very little SJW stuff.
>some in the thread would probably spear me for making this point
I have gotten some really bad looks from professors when discussing what I study outside of Classics (Greek and Latin). The students are nicer about it and so are the people in this thread. These professors are the same people who talk about diversity all the time, yet they look at me with disgust and confusion, the same look as if I told them I eat from a dumpster and drink from a toilet. In a Semitic languages department, no one would bat an eye because everyone knows a variety of languages. Apologies for the wall of text. I've been thinking about writing on the subject.

Hypothetically speaking if one wanted to learn every major classic lang there is, what would be the optimal order?

>>21321891
>I think we can consider this broadening of the definition of C(c)lassics to be a very good thing for us because it fortifies us against harmful elements. These harmful elements I am referring to are the ones on display at the SCS 2019 Annual Meeting Q&A.

Why do you think this is? Do you suppose that Social Justice is a somewhat uniquely western disease, and therefore is much more prevalent in the western classical languages? (Greek and Latin)

>>21321922
The order doesn't matter at that point as much. I mean, does it really matter if you learn Akkadian, before or after Latin? Maybe in terms of experience at learning ancient languages (but the books you have as options also depend on what modern languages you know). There are textbooks for akkadian that assume you've got experience learning latin or hebrew, so you might want to start with those (but then again, akkadian is proto-semetic, so learning it before you tackle semitic languages might help).
Maybe this would work?
Latin>Akkadian (afterwards Sumerian)>(ancient Hebrew), classical Arabic and Greek>Middle Egyptian (Coptic and Demotic afterwards)>Sanskrit (classical, then Veda) and classical Chinese at some point as well

>>21321773
I was writing this in class. True, I did not have time to add punctuation, and this detracts a bit from my point.

>>21321891
Within a Western context, I consider "Classical languages" to be Biblical Hebrew, Classical Syriac, Latin, and Ancient/Koine Greek. Now, some might wonder why I include two Semitic languages in the category of "Classical languages within a Western context", and for that reason I say two words: The Bible. The Hebrew of the Old Testament (and Greek of the Septuagint), the Classical Syriac of Christians throughout the Middle East, and of course the Greek and Latin, which would be more than obvious to anyone with even a basic level of experience in the Classics. Those four languages have had the largest effect on the Western (and European, more broadly) thought process and view on our lives, and as such that is why I consider them such. I don't study Classics per se, as my degree I am earning is in international studies (so I study languages, history, economics, political science, etc). I have had an interest in cultures, languages, and linguistics since I was a young child, and so as a result that is what I primarily will be shifting my focus to when (or if, God willing) I enter into graduate school. Historical linguistics, specifically synchronic linguistics, is what I would primarily be doing with my postgraduate studies.

Apologies for the wall of text, but I appreciate reading your points greatly.

I'm also the same fellow in the below post, if you'd like to hear my Latin. >>21317209

>>21321922
Basic: Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, Sanskrit, & Chinese.

If you want to learn others like Aramaic, Syriac, Coptic, & Ethiopic, then learn them in that order between Hebrew & Arabic. Don't bother learning Akkadian, Hittite, Sumerian, or Ugaritic. Those languages are for academics who want to translate damaged fragments of eroded tablets, not people who want to enjoy literature. You can additionally learn Pali and Avestan after Sanskrit or Tibetan after Chinese. You can also learn Mayan or Egyptian hieroglyphs basically whenever.
>>21321960
Ignore this guy he's retarded.

>>21321922
As you know, this is pretty much impossible and is definitely a bad use of one's time, but I do have a path in mind. First, I would learn Latin and Greek. I would choose them first because there is some synergy with their respective literatures, but more importantly, Latin has been used up until very recently for language resources, such as dictionaries, catalogs, and commentaries. Then, I would learn whatever remaining classical European languages there were to take advantage of the Indo-European synergy, such as Old Norse or something. I would leave out Indo-Iranian languages for now. Then, I would learn all of the Semitic languages, going from Biblical Hebrew to Biblical / Jewish Aramaic to Syriac to Arabic to Ge'ez to Coptic to Middle Egyptian to Ugaritic to Akkadian to Sumerian (not Semitic). I'm leaving out Hittite (not Semitic) and Old South Arabian because they don't have very large corpora, I don't think. Then, I would learn Persian to Middle Persian to Old Persian to Sanskrit. Finally, I would learn Classical Chinese and go to any East Asian classical languages.
It's very possible that I'm not including something that I would consider to be classical had I known more about it. Also, Ugaritic probably isn't a classical language due to its limited corpus, which might not be the case in the future. The same might be said about other languages, such as Hittite. I included Ugaritic because it is close to Hebrew and serves as a good introduction to cuneiform.

>>21321752
Proper English (and Latin) will be spoken in White ethnic enclaves; see Stephenson's "The Diamond Age" for the model.

>>21321997
>I included Ugaritic because it is close to Hebrew and serves as a good introduction to cuneiform.
Ugaritic cunieform is actually nothing like Sumerian or Akkadian. It's like Cyrillic vs Latin. The symbols mean different things even if they look the same.

>>21321939
I'm not sure. What I can say about why Semitic studies doesn't have this issue (or has less of it) is because the field is incredibly niche and language intensive. Plus, I think there are a good number of people who enter the field via biblical studies, and people who study the Bible tend to be religious and more conservative.
>>21321976
>Apologies for the wall of text, but I appreciate reading your points greatly.
>I'm also the same fellow in the below post, if you'd like to hear my Latin. >>21317209
No apologies. It was perfectly fine writing, and I think you make an excellent point, evaluating languages regarding their influence on Western Civilization. Unfortunately, some people would have us believe that there is no such thing as the West. I can agree that there is a group of Classical Western languages and that there are other classical languages that may only be relevant to a single nation or an extinct civilization, such as Akkadian. I'll be sure to listen to your Latin.
>>21322016
I am going off information from someone who knows Ugaritic and Akkadian. I know very little about either of them. I've been told that Ugaritic is alphabetic cuneiform and that I should learn it as an introduction to cuneiform and a stepping stone to Akkadian.

>>21321976
I >>21322046 got around to listening right away. That's some good pronunciation, especially the Ecclesiastical reading. You seem very comfortable with that pronunciation. It was refreshing to listen to because my peers and professors have been butchering Greek (the only language I'm taking right now). It's so bad, but I should get to my Greek homework instead of idling on 4chan. Have a good one!

>>21310528
Scribe, culiola.

>>21322074
I'll drop my reading of Greek as well, just as a treat. What is your homework on?

My reading of Greek (Admittedly, I haven't spoken Greek in a while. My pronunciation is something of my own doing, a reconstructed pronunciation around the time of Jesus Christ, that is to say, circa the 1st Century AD. In my diagram, I included also possible variations depending on location within the Greek-speaking world.)

https://voca.ro/17LlG1c3Dkey

Good luck though anon! Hope to continue our conversation soon.

>>21322136
What I read was John 14:6, if anyone is curious.

Λέγει αὐτῷ [ὁ] Ἰησοῦς, Ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ὁδὸς καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια καὶ ἡ ζωή: οὐδεὶς ἔρχεται πρὸς τὸν πατέρα εἰ μὴ δι' ἐμοῦ. (Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.)

My Latin is admittedly better than my Greek, at least I think so, but probably because I have more opportunities to use the former than the latter (as well as more experience with Latin than Greek).

>>21321939
Semitic studies are not a cornerstone of Western education, not in the way Latin and Greek are. The attack is on the foundations. Once those are compromised it will be easy to infest the remaining niche disciplines.
Classics itself was not the first on the chopping block.

I watched luke smith's video. He said latin is amazing and then once you learn it you will have the means to read a really huge collection of books with full of substance thought provoking etc. But then he is Christian and afaik he recommended only Christian latin books? I don't want anything to do with Christianity.


I just want to read a good story or good philosophy books or abt some form of meditation. Learn more abt how the mind works.
Question 1) Are there lots of books on latin.

He shilled that latin is the best first language you should learn and it's so worth it. And once you learn that learning other languages like greek will become infinitely easier.
Question 2) should I start with latin?

>>21322280
Cuck Smith is a retard and you should ignore everything he says. With that said, the answer to both your questions is yes.

>>21322280
>Are there lots of books on latin.
Everything in Western Europe until like 1500 was written in Latin. If you spoke German, you wrote in Latin. If you spoke Spanish, you wrote in Latin. If you were in Ireland and wanted to write to someone in Venice, you wrote in Latin. Crusaders from Germanic countries while in the Middle East kept journals in Latin.
>should I start with latin?
If you mean for classical and literary languages, then yes. If you mean for any language, I guess if you are interested in learning languages for reading. If you want to speak Spanish, French, etc then just start with them and do Latin later. They help more with getting a head start in Latin than Latin helps with learning Romance langs imo. 60% of English is Latin vs like 80% in some Romance languages, so it's not that much of a help since the grammar is pretty different anyways. What Latin helps you do is learn hard grammar of other classical languages or inflect IE langs like German and Russian, but the vocab is similar to English, so it's like a cheat code where you are doing half of the work that you would normally be doing if you learned Classical Arabic or something instead. In that case you have to learn Arabic grammar and a bunch of words that are completely unrelated to english.

>>21322136
I'm reading On the Murder of Herodes by Antiphon.

>>21322357
Interesting! How is it thus far?

is the Iliad the oldest known example of fujobait?

>>21322318
>I just want to read a good story with substance or good philosophy books or smtg meditation related.

Does Latin have books on these. I just want to learn a language on which lot of good works related to my interests are written. I'm not in a situation where I have to learn a new classical language. It's purely for my own amusement and satisfy my curiosity and learn smtg in the process.

Also lingua Latin is good right? I'll just go with that..

>>21321891
I would agree, but I do think in a western context latin and greek should be essential to the department.

>>21321990
Thanks for the advice. I'd been debating for a while about hebrew or arabic first.

>>21322140
I love the gospel of John so much it's so easy to read in the greek.

>>21322408
Maybe because it literally has no homosexuality yet fujos keep projecting onto it.

>>21322421
> I just want to read a good story with substance
There's epic poetry, but don't expect anything like a modern novel in any ancient language.
> good philosophy books or smtg meditation related.
Maybe try some Seneca in translation first. The stoics would have been interested in psychology and meditation, if that would have been a thing in Rome.
> Also lingua Latin is good right?
Just so you know, this question always leads to shitflinging here. I liked it.

>>21322280
Basically the majority of Roman and Western European texts before the 16th century are in Latin. You aren't going to run out of things to read. Imo besides the Vulgate, if you aren't religious there isn't much religious stuff in particular you would have to touch, or really ever need to. But even the Vulgate can be substituted for other easy Latin texts like Nepos
>I just want to read a good story or good philosophy books or abt some form of meditation
Quite a few Medieval fairy tales are in Latin. Cicero and Seneca are great for philosophy.
>And once you learn that learning other languages like greek will become infinitely easier.
Honestly I think it's true for any language you learn. His point was that Latin has a complex system which forces you to learn the terms used in languages so in that sense yes.

>>21322421
>Also lingua Latin is good right? I'll just go with that..
Combine it with a grammar primer like Moreland & Fleischer or Wheelock. Do not ask follow up questions. This board loves to argue about this. You can also use the companion book for LLPSI, but it's not as good as a dedicated intro grammar course. Lingua Latina is a graded reader, not a textbook.

I am not responding to any shitposting replies so don't waste your breath (or fingers).

Bump

y is a diphthong is classical latin but few will acknowledge it

>>21323486
explain yourself

>>21323502
rom*ns were trying to approximate https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Close_front_rounded_vowel.ogg with upsilon; i.e., a glided "ui"
but if you were on the grain dole you probably sounded more like https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Close_front_unrounded_vowel.ogg

>>21308424
I have two questions for /clg/
1) Please recommend some good translations of "The Book of Coming Forth By Day."
2) Are there much phonemes in Latin whose pronounce is uncertain? Where can I read about it?

>>21323673
?? it's my understanding y was always seen as a foreign letter, so as they imported it from greeks they would at least try to pronounce it properly
as for actually managing, that's another matter, but how do you know?

>>21323696
the only thing roman grammarians obsessed over more than greek loanwords was how much latin yokels kept shitting them up

>>21323781
it's interesting though that there seemed to be some variation also in their own experience of u vs i, e.g in Sallust one reads lots of optumum, maxumum, plurumum, etc...

>>21314526
>Lesbos

>>21324006
blame Sappho

Are there good examples of didactic poetry in other languages besides Greek and Latin? Lucretius, Manilius, and the Georgics are all super-interesting to me. I think I want to write some myself in English, but it would be nice to have non-Latin models to look at.

>>21324006
Hey lesbians were very desirable. Agamemnon gave 7 to Achilles as a gift to get him to fight.

>>21324590
Gabirol
> had composed a 400-verse alphabetical and acrostic poem teaching the rules of Hebrew grammar.

>>21324590
>>21324691
I don't know anything about Sanskrit, but the Kooma Sutra is a mix of prose and poetry, and I suspect there's lots more for other topics.

bump

>>21308427
No

Fuck why are Semitic consonants so fucking weird.

>>21326585
What do you mean by "weird"?

>>21322404
Herodes is an interesting one, but I need to get further in the story to judge. I'm pretty burnt out at the moment. The fun/unique thing about this trial is that, despite being a trial, it is similar to a murder mystery. If made into a movie or TV show episode, it would be the speaker talking about why he didn't do it and flashbacks to a dramatic depiction when he calls witnesses, which we don't have recorded. We don't have the other side or the outcome of the case. I am told that these speeches are a greatest hits portfolio, so one can generally assume that the speaker won. What I think would be cool is to examine ancient commentaries and their reconstructions of witness testimony and the other side's speech.
>>21326585
How so?

>>21326852
Your description is quite interesting. I'll have to check it out.

>>21322444
As do I. Also trips checked.

>>21324006
smartest latin learner

>>21308533
It's correct, retard

I heard people say teaching Latin including declining verbs and nouns was a new thing
Then I looked into history about a monastery in Germany and found the boys played a joke on their teacher and got out of punishment by declining in Latin.
A big blow to the "immersive" way.

Luke dominating the vatican airwaves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV5UdwlNm6w
You guys give him a hard time but the priests seemed impressed by Frank Sinatra impression in broken Latin

>>21327192
>You guys give him a hard time
Because of >>21327191

>>21327191
It's always been the case. They didn't even call it "Latin" in the middle ages, they unironically called it "grammar".

>>21327106
no it's not, meter gets fucked and κε needs subjunctive, I checked other versions too

>>21327249
You're right but grammar wasn't necessarily the same thing as its means today. Grammar then meant syntax specifically.

>>21326808
It's just hard, the pharyngilized consonants are difficult and then there's the hard h and ayin. I can't hear them well and it hurts after practicing too long.

>>21327697
You are absolutely right. Homer even cheats to fit the meter so it should absolutely be eta.

>>21327697
κε does not need a subjunctive. I see αν + indicative all the time. It is translated like a subjunctive too.

>>21327876
in this case it does and fits with the meter, it's not a construction of the type "if X happened(but it didn't), then ...." where one would commonly see ἄν + indicative, it's an open condition, i.e "if X happens(realistic it does), then...."

This was America's best articulator of pharyngeals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LJi47Kzvv8

>>21327902
RIP LAOSHUUUU

>>21327902
they're way way way too exaggerated, he does not sound natural

>>21327249
Was classical Latin even a real thing, or just a meme made up by later scholars who knew grammar? I'd be interested if some schizo author suggests this.

>>21327702
The most commonly used Latin textbook in the Middle Ages begins with a detailed description of the parts of speech

>ecci cubiculum anoni

>>21328311
>Was classical Latin even a real thing
I think the distinction between "Classical" and "Late Latin" is basically bullshit. It should all just be called "Imperial Latin". The difference is so overblown, yes there is a dip in quality and an increase in "vulgarism", but for fuck's sake it's the literary version of a spoken language. It's not until say Charlamange that the vernaculars are unintelligible and Latin becomes artificial and frozen in time.

what deez hoops is above the macron? I see this on wiktionary often. some sort of "attested to" form of elongation?

>>21328359
sometimes short
wtf is deez hoops? More importantly why did I understand what you meant? try as I might to denegrify my life the coonditioning is just too great.

>>21328314
>The most commonly used Latin textbook in the Middle Ages
Name?

>>21328399
Donatus, Ars Minor and Ars Maior
eventually amalgamated along with Priscian and various other sources into the Ianua

>>21328329

Post your grammar 3x3s anons

>>21316950
>>21317002
i finished FR a little while back, then read fabulae syrae, amphitryo, the sections of de bello gallico that are in the orberg book, and epitome historiae sacrae. im just starting RA now, and while i have heard it is diffult, its actually very easy because of the amount of reading i have done, and i read about 6-10 pages a day and it takes about 45 minutes.
i recommend fabulae syrah, epitome historiae sacrae, and de bello gallico highly before getting into roma aeterna. reading amphitryo was fun too so i recommend it as well if you are not in a hurry.

>>21317209
magister has accent on the penultima because its a long syllable, but it looks like you corrected yourself. intuitus is on the u, not the i. excellent vowel quality, vowel length is sort of all over the place. You especially want to have short a's at the end of familia and romana, as it can be confused with the ablative singular sometimes. pretty good

>>21317002
also i would like to add that unless the vulgate is a primary goal for you learning latin, it isnt really that good of reading material because the reading level is so low. it will end up being a lot of time spent at that reading level without much gain, and also when you start reading other styles of latin it will feel jarring. fabulae syrae really got me feeling solid reading participles in all their uses. I think that once you feel good about that, and maybe the new vocabulary, it is alright to move to your next thing to read. I know this is a lot of unsolicited advice but whatever

>>21320787
ANKI has its uses ok. if you are trying to grind out the first couple thousand most commonly used vocab words, sure, it works, (people will say anki collapses on itself after a while here) but dont expect to retain it just doing flashcards, get exposed to real reading material with that stuff in it. Because of this, the best use ive gotten out of anki was doing the flashcard deck for roma aeterna a few months before i expected to start reading roma aeterna. So, I got first exposure with the cards (i do about 30 new cards a day), have like a 90-95% accuracy which is good enough, and now im getting real exposure and it works great. super effective.

>>21323837
i bet thats because there was a schwa in sallusts accent.

>>21328359
its a breve on top of a macron

>>21329572
Nah, they be deez hoops on top of muh crones.

>>21329421
Good, I have physical copies of, FR, FS, and RA. Other supplementary material I have on my computer back in the US.

>excellent vowel quality, vowel length is sort of all over the place.
I ran the text through a macronizer (roughly 98-99% accuracy) so I followed where it placed the macrons for my vowel length. Idk if it got picked up by the recording but that's what I did so I can see where long and short vowels are.

>>21329448
I've got Livy, Ørberg's other supplementary material, and other resources as PDFs on my computer back home, but I plan on starting from scratch when I get back home to America because I believe it's better to review what I know after a long period away.

does memory palace work for learning latin?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV5UdwlNm6w

Anyone learnt any Old French / Anglo-Norman?

>>21331047
I've a little bit of experience with Old French and Old Occitan, but not much, sadly. What questions did you have in mind?

greek chat? ἕλληνα διάλογο στήσωμεν;

>>21331829
διάλογο; ἀλλὰ μέλλομεν νέᾳ τε καὶ παλαίῃ χρώμενοι ἑλληνίζειν;

bump

I wanna translate you will never be a real woman into Latin but first I have to learn Latin.

>>21334196
numquam femina vera eris, cinaede

>Albīnus: "Quae sunt illae viae in quibus illae tabernae sunt? Et quae sunt illa ōrnāmenta quae in illīs tabernīs parvō pretiō emuntur?
was this thinly veiled racism?

>>21334230
I mean the whole pasta.

>>21334236
I don't see it, explain.

>>21334596
Albinus is insinuating shopkeeps from the ethnic district might not be selling bona fide jewelry

>>21308603
>Is it two words fused together
I dare you try to read ancient greek text from 700-400bc, most of them bother with spaces

>>21334240
why?

Anyone know where I can get a physical copy of the Septuagint in Greek? I seem to be unable to find one on Amazon.

κακοὶ μάρτυρες ἀνθρώποισιν ὀφθαλμοὶ καὶ ὦτα βαρβάρους ψυχὰς ἐχόντων

Is classically "restored" Latin the greatest trick the linguist ever played on humanity?

>>21336640
why?

>>21336716
> Ignore shitposters, do not feed the trolls

This is given in Moreland & Fleischer as an example of a connective relative pronoun:
>Miles me monuerat ut ex oppido discederem. QUEM postquam me interfecturum esse sensi, mox discessi
And this is the given English approximation:
>The soldier had warned me that I depart from the town. After I perceived that WHOM (he) was going to kill me. I soon (i.e., thereupon) departed
It seems like quem should be nominative based on the English. Is a literal translation more closely "After I perceived HIM who was going to kill me"?

>>21336757
>Miles me monuerat ut ex oppido discederem. QUEM postquam me interfecturum esse sensi, mox discessi
I think quem is the direct object of sensi.

English translations don't always match in case unless someone is intentionally writing a wonky sentence with odd syntax to deliberately mirror the Latin grammar.

>>21336757
quem is the accusative subject of the future infinitive interfecturum esse, acc.+inf. construction, very literally:
"whom after i perceived to be about to kill me."

>>21336792
Very based and learnéd, thank you anon. The literal translation still reads as correct if dated English. Reginaldus was right: never prematurely rob a translation of its idiomatic soul. Fleischer a shit.

>>21336849
I gave you the exact same answer and you never gave me any (you)??? FUCK YOU

The first American president was right that the best thing in his life was being taught Greek in his youth out of everything in his life

>>21310654
Seems like I have some kind of evil doppelgaenger here. Of course I am doing the exercises my fren.

>>21332499
σὺ δὲ ὦ παιπάλη ἐμὲ μὲν εἰς τὸ ὑπὸ τάχους ἐπιλαθέσθαι προσθεῖναι τὸ νῦ ἔσκωψας, σαὐτὸν δὲ ἰδεῖν οὐχ οἷός τ' ἦσθα παροξυτόνως λεληθότως τὸ παλαιᾷ ἐξενεγκόντα;

>>21338132
εὖ κατενόησας, ἀλλ' ὧ φίλε, τὸ μὲν λεληθότως οὐκ ὀρθῶς λόγους τονοῦν οὐκ αὐτόθι ἄλλην Ἑλληνικὴν γλῶσσαν ὡς τὴν νέαν τὴν ἐν τῇ νῦν Ἐλλάδι σημαίνει, τὸ δὲ «διάλογο» γράψαι εἰκότως φανείη ἄν πολλάκις ὅτι μέλλεις τῇ νέᾳ διαλέγεσθαι· ἦ μὴν ὡς τοῦτο νῦν ἐννοῦμαι, ὅτι τόδε τὸ νῆμα σαφῶς περὶ παλαιῶν γλοσσῶν ἐστίν, ὤφελλον τόδε αὐτίκα αἰσθέσθαι

>>21338270
καὶ μὴν βέλτιον διάλογο λέγειν ἀντὶ τοῦ διάλογον ἢ παντάπασιν ἀνύπαρκτα ἄττα προβάλλεσθαι. τὸ γὰρ παλαία οὔτε νῦν οὔτε πώποτε τὸ πάλαι οὕτως ἐγράφη ἢ ἐλέχθη πρός τινος.

Another day
Another day I didn't study Latin either

>>21339630
go study

>>21339630
Me too

>>21339630
same

>>21339630
>>21340359
>>21340541
>abloo bloo
>I didn't study Latin
fucking niggers
go study instead of throwing pity parties on 4chan

>>21310173
>>21310177
The first one is more correct but it's a pain to read. The second one is more liberally translated and gramatically simpler. I like the second one more.

>>21340624
>go study instead of throwing pity parties on 4chan
No.

>>21340359
If you simply promise to yourself to study for 5 (five) minutes every day, and do this consistently for 2 or 3 months, you will quickly find that you start to average far more than that, and you can develop it as a habit almost without effort. I myself started with this method (albeit for Russian) and was able to successfully build a habit that now allows me to spend multiple hours a day with Russian basically without effort. Start with the absolute smallest possible effort, but do it consistently (never skip a day, ever), and you will be astounded at how it grows - I promise you that.

>>21341199
How do I study for 5 minutes?

>Introduction to Attic Greek (Mastronarde)
Is it fine to start with this one if I mostly care for Homeric and Koine Greek? How painful will be the switch?
Would starting with Homeric and then moving on to Attic and then Koine (to follow the chronological order) be better? If so, which textbook should I use?

>>21341781
you've got kinda the two extremes there, but keep in mind "Homeric" Greek is more like an artificial dialect largely based in Ionic, plus forms from Eolic, Attic and Mycenaean, and Ionic is the close sister of Attic, so while IIRC there are some courses/texts to learn Greek starting from Homer, I'm not sure it's worth the additional pain if you also later want to read Koine(largely based in Attic)
i.e with Attic you'll have much more reading material, even graded beginner level modern works, to reach a good level more smoothly

Is it possible for someone to translate this, please?

>>21341945
Cheers, guess I'll start with Attic and see where it takes me

>>21342009
I'll try:
> For this is my body
> for this is the cup of by blood:
> of the new and eternal testament:
> the mystery of faith: which for you and for many
> was shed for the remission of sins.

>>21342058
Thanks man.
Saw the description in a ninth century monastery and was curious.

>>21342058
> my blood:
of course.
>>21342377
No problem. My feeling is that that particular inscription is a couple hundred years old at most.

How are grad school applications going for everyone? Last year, I was uncertain about attending, applied to a few places since I didn't have much time, and I didn't get in. I was told by one professor at my school who I think is on the application committee that I was a lock to get into the MA program and to look nowhere else. Obviously, that was a lie. I didn't apply this year, and I'm trying to pursue Classics in a non-cringe way outside of academia, which is my ultimate goal anyway. Nonetheless, I would like to hear how everyone is doing, I hope well, in this regard. There was a really good Classics grad school thread last year, but I think it got deleted in 24 hours by the jannies. To those applying, bonam fortunam.

>>21342646
>How are grad school applications going for everyone?
This is a 4chan thread with shitposters and gamers larping as polyglots. Other than you an Ethiopanon, no one is going anywhere in life.

>>21342646
I'm a stemcel and only do this stuff in my free time

>>21342646
I waited too long to get a writing sample ready and probably will have to wait another year now.

>>21308424
ave anons, I'm having trouble with recognizing present subjunctive verbs in Latin, the ones that change the vowel to "a" or "e" depending on the conjugation (also with finding perfect verbs due to the different stem, but less so), is it just a matter of memorization and getting familiar with the specific words? Or is there an easier way to identify them at a glance without having to check? Thanks in advance

>>21343505
Well how often do you really come up against a subjunctive that isn't already suggested/anticipated by the context? 9 times out of 10 for me when I see a subjunctive I'm not seeing the form and thinking "ok, be ready for whatever kind of subjunctive this is," I'm seeing what kind of clause it is and THEN going "yep that's a subjunctive form alright"

>>21341781
>How painful will be the switch?
Not too bad. The dialect is not that different. There are plenty of resources to help you with differences in Homeric Greek.
Mastronarde is a pretty good textbook overall.

>>21342646
>I was told by one professor at my school who I think is on the application committee that I was a lock to get into the MA program
confront him. be polite but don't back down

>>21343505
>is it just a matter of memorization and getting familiar with the specific words
yes

>>21342646
>>21342653
>>21343268
I'm applying to a few universities. Applications open in a week so I am going to start writing my statement of purpose soon.

Where are y'all/would y'all like to apply to?

>>21343505
There's actually a fairly easy trick for this, at least for the present system.

Subjunctives in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd -io, and 4th conjugations become e, ea, a, ia, ia respectively.

Just remember "We fear a liar, friar."
wE fEAr A lIAr, frIAr

If you can remember this mnemonic and know what verbs belong to what conjugations, you can tell what the subjunctive will look like with remarkable consistency.

>>21344090
I just saw him and failed to confront him. The reason being that I talked to him about auditing a Greek class he is co-teaching next semester. I foolishly also brought up some unique ideas I have about drugs in the ancient world, but I don't think he was really listening or realized they are unique ideas.

>thought frātrī was brother in the genitive again
When do I stop being retarded?

>>21345857
Write it out by hand 300 times and also buy my Premium Patreon Recordings™

>>21342646

I think you should apply to all the schools you can that don't require GRE, etc.

But always remember that your writing is your most important component. I highly recommend finding secondary literature in a recent journal and reading the articles that are submitted by high level phd students (often ABD and shooting for jobs soon) and just copying their style and tempo of writing. That's what's going to make or break you in the process.

Also schools with five year programs are gay and stupid

>>21343583
>>21345497
thank you anons, this helped in the quiz I had today

>>21345586
Talk to him like an adult. Tell him simply you didn't get into the MA program and that you applied nowhere else based on his recommendation. Ask him if he knows what happened or why. Don't be aggressive or rude but assertive and fairly direct. You are the one wronged here.
I had a similar situation, confronted the professor and he helped me sort it out. He has a lot on his plate and you unfortunately may have slipped through the cracks. Only way you will know is by discussing it with him. You can still audit his class, just keep your composure and be honest and straightforward.

>>21348023
I applied elsewhere; I just didn't get in. I asked him why I didn't get into my school's MA program, and he told me, when other schools wouldn't, that the issue was my lack of language classes. I found the remark somewhat amusing, since I know several languages (I acquired a wide knowledge in a brief space of time), but I understood his feedback nonetheless, which is why I'm still improving my Latin and Greek and why I asked to audit his course next semester. My application would be improved by now, so maybe, I could have gotten in this time around. Issues with scheduling the GRE and disillusionment with academia are why I didn't apply. Maybe, I will apply next year. Maybe, I won't. My goal has always been to make it as a scholar outside of academia.
Thanks for your input. One day, I might talk to him and my department chair (other beef), but now, I must continue to use this opportunity to improve my skills.

>>21341199
Shutup Allen you gay bitch
>>21341710
It's just the mindset of sitting on your ass and thinking to yourself 'it's only 5 minutes' and doing just a little. Chances are it becomes a lot easier to do more than that since you're now in the mood.

>>21342646
Ay
I'm currently doing an Engineering degree with an Arts major (which would be Classics, duh). I'm already in, just starting my Classics next semester since I finished a whole year of eng content. My only gripe with the content at my university is that it's composite Greek+Latin literature and history, when all I really care for is Latin literature and history.

>>21348130
>I asked him why I didn't get into my school's MA program
That's all you need to know, sounds like you already got what you needed. I didn't mean to cast blame so much as find out why. He still is at fault to some degree in giving you terrible advice re not applying to other schools and being a lock but that's academia for you.
>I might talk to him and my department chair (other beef)
At this point it seems like you know what you want to do and pursuing it further will not help your goals. Life lesson learned.
I grew disillusioned with academia as well, particularly Classics. One of the worst disciplines to make a career in in academia right now and that is a shame. They have been decrying the lack of interest and declining enrollment in Classics for decades now but their solution is to shrink already shrunken departments and dumb down the curriculum as much as possible. Entering the field is highly competitive for all the wrong reasons and becoming tenured is nigh impossible without slaving away for a decade or more and compromising any integrity you have. Compare the papers journals are publishing now with Mommsen, Munro, Jaeger, or anyone pre-WWII and despair.

>>21348153
Why only Latin? I like Latin a lot and am very good at it, but I am drawn more towards Greek. Is your program focused exclusively on texts in translation?

>>21348165
The program is just the study of literature and history, there's only a few translation/language courses, which are just Latin iirc. All the content besides some 3rd year courses are supposed to be all in translation.

Well yea, it's just personal preference, I don't really care for the Greeks. They just bore me, don't care for the language or history. I'm team Latin all the way here.

>>21340624
no

>>21348130
>>21348154

I'm considering going into graduate school, but less for Latin and Greek and more for synchronic languages (a subset of historical linguistics). My best prospects on paper are for Germanic languages like Old Norse or Old English, but I don't know my chances if I did Latin or Greek.

>>21348175
>I don't really care for the Greeks
>I'm team Latin
Boy are you in for a rude awakening

>>21349031
>B..b..but, they themselves considered greeks to be th-
Metamorphōsēs mogs and it's not even close

>>21349174
>Metamorphōsēs
You mean the book composed almost entirely of Greek myths?
I think you misunderstood me. The Romans loved the Greeks. Every single Roman work is steeped in Greek culture. Like it or not if you really want to learn Latin you will be too.

>>21349031
It's not like I don't understand influence etc
I just don't care about the Greeks any further than what they mean to the Romans

>>21349264
Fair enough.
Bear in mind that you will have to know a ton of Greek mythology, philosophy, rhetoric, history etc. to read pretty much anything Roman. "what they mean to the Romans" turns out to be a lot, a whole lot, I'd say even more than the Bible means to modern Western culture. Cicero, Virgil, Ovid, Statius, Quintilian - all saturated with Greek thought. Even Tacitus, despite his aversion to Greek, shows signs of Greek education in his writings though not overtly.
If you don't want to learn Greek that is totally understandable. But attempting to learn classical Latin without good knowledge of the Greeks and their world is foolhardy.

Reminder that all monks learnt latin through studying syntax and declension

>>21349316
Yep. Scipio's dying wish was that he studied Greek literature.

>>21349316
Honestly I believe knowledge only has to be surface level. Or just about none at all when it comes to the Middle Republic and earlier up until the Second Punic War when it comes to what you need to know. There is plenty enough you don't need to read the Greeks about to understand its usage by the Romans. I don't need to read anything by the Greeks to understand Roman rhetoric other than if I wanted to know development, because they already wrote on the topic. When it comes to history I don't see it being much else than name calling and referring to moral examples without any real depth or really interest to what is being told.

bump
starting with book II of the Ἰλιάς m'hetairoi

bump

θαυμάζω ὁρῶν οὐδένα τόδε τὸ νῆμα σώζοντα

>>21308424
Does anglo-saxon count as a “classical language”?

>>21352657
I'm happy that I could understand what you wrote with total ease. Meanwhile, I'm trying to bring myself to get through another paragraph of my Greek homework. At least, I haven't been on 4chan today.

>>21352682
No not in any way

>>21352657
εἰκότως οὕτω προθύμως τὰς πάλαι γλώσσας καταμανθάνουσιν ὡς ἐπιλαθέσθαι τοῦ βαμπίσαι

>>21353168
shut up moron
>>21352682
Old English, yes
Middle English, maybe not but close enough for the thread

>>21353693
οἶός τέ εἰμι μόνον ἐλπίζειν ταῦτα ἀληθῆ εἶναι

>>21317209
>>21317439
Not that anon who's already given you a critique, but I do think your classical sounds slightly more ecclesiastical than how I remember it in college. I remember one teacher saying the u was pronounced as Elmer Fudd would say it. Also the aspirations for h should be more like Attic Greek.

>>21355545
bump

>>21312471
this buckled me

>>21315285
Which book is that from?

>>21308424
cant let it die

>>21354465
When I do Classical Latin, I try to do reconstructed Classical, which when compared to Ecclesiastical Latin has much more in common phonologically in regard to vowels, with only a few changes that obviously continued into modern Italian

I also did reading in Greek, with clarifications in post for my pronunciation btw
>>21322136

>>21310249
the stuff people do to themselves holy shit. i'm reading caesar right now and i've never done any of this mad bullshit

>>21357573
same i just find it hilarious

rote memorisation of Latin morphology is the most efficient way to begin learning Latin and makes everything afterwards far easier

if you fell for the just start with LLPSI meme you betray your own laziness in seeking a shortcut

>>21357747
What is morphology?

>>21358007
>this is your linguistic ability on Orberg

>>21357747
>if you fell for the just start with LLPSI meme
Let's bot start this again. These people cannot be convinced.

>>21357747
efficient doesn't necessarily mean engaging, people should learn by whatever tools keep them engaged and motivated, it's going to be a long project anyway; some like their grammar, others less so
I did both, grammar heavier study + translation for Latin and more natural method driven reading for Greek

>>21358031
Linguisticsfag here:
Morphology is how words are formed, basically.

>>21357747
>>21358034
I started with LLPSI and found it incredibly beneficial. I understand things more intuitively than going through grammar explanations, that's just how I learn. I don't mind going through grammar explanations or grammar-translation, but I find that method to be less efficient for me personally.

>>21358148
Agreed

>>21357747
>I must bring up LLPSI at every chance possible
Please kys

>>21358156
>I started with LLPSI and found it incredibly beneficial.
Please, do we have to do this everytime?

Nobody in the history of /clg/ has ever said that it isn't beneficial or a good reader. Why is this position so misrepresented? How difficult is it to understand that nobody hates your holy grail? What people critique more than anything isn't even the fucking book its the cringe inducing subculture around it and the bad advice given by e-celeb Patreon grifters. Nobody gives a fuck what book you use. The point has always been that you guys need to stop telling gullible normies not to use anything else and lying about grammar being invented in 1892.

>>21358173
>>I must bring up LLPSI at every chance possible
>Please kys
Everytime the board slows down, it's the same guy who thinks it's funny to do this.

>>21358191
I wasn't misrepresenting anything or even making a point. Also, who's "you guys"? I study linguistics for a living bro, I don't need to lie to promote anything. If anything, I promote a balanced approach. Grammar books are excellent, but much like LLPSI (as beneficial as they are separate), they both aren't the entire toolbox on their own.

If you're going to accuse me of anything, please read what I said again instead of constructing a strawman.

>>21358460
lurk moar newfag

>>21358460
Nobody cares.

>>21358460
No one wants to argue with you. Take a hint and add something productive to the conversation instead of rehashing irrelevant bullshit that nobody cares about newfag.

The ransoming of Hector is so awesome. The emotion Homer puts into the scene and the camaraderie between Priam and Achilles is amazing and I'm sad my Homer class is over.

>>21358779
Homer is a dead white male shut the fuck up white boy when you are dead and your grandchildren are brown we'll be teaching black lesbian approaches to Homeric poetry and that's a good thing.

>>21358835
But anon, Homer was a Lesbian.

This thread is feeling pretty dead these days. The best we can hope for is that students are busy with finals. On the plus side, the past few months have had no textbook shit flinging.
If you want to keep this thread alive, bring up interesting topics. Tell us what you're reading. Bring up some interesting news, be it a new discovery or a new article. This thread is the biggest reason for why I visit 4chan as often as I do, but if people have to bump it constantly, maybe, it should only exist once a month.

>>21357747
>he didnt memorize all the declensions and conjugations and then do LLPSI

>>21359773
I memorized everything but the subjunctive. I was too similar yet abstract without seeing it in action.

>>21358845

He did wear Birkenstocks, after all

>>21359675
Don't know what to tell you; Latin is an incredibly niche area of study now. High level study has been entirely coopted by cultural marxism (see https://youtu.be/lcJZCVemn-4)) so Latin insofar as it's the heritage given to us by Humanism and Western Civilization is being kept on life support by autistic NEETs who choose it for themselves and posh boys who learn it to high school and never touch it again (and the few thousand serious academics and students if you wish to paint a less dire picture). I for my part refuse to larp as an authority until I've at least finished Wheelock and LLPSI, which definitely won't be the case until the latter half of 2023. The barrier for entry is simply too high for it to have appeal outside of internet nazis who want to feel like they are saving western civilization as their native populations brown and the world they grew up in crumbles around them.

For other classical languages take what I said about Latin and apply twice the level of obscurity

>>21308424
>tua mater obesus est

Get fuck nerd

>>21360227
>For other classical languages take what I said about Latin and apply twice the level of obscurity
I disagree. Sanskrit, and to an even greater extent, Classical Chinese are both taken very seriously in their native countries.

>>21360301
Well if that guy wants more classical language thread engagement he should go to poo in the loo 4chan or ching chong 4chan then

>>21359675
/lang/ on /int/ is kinda similar, accounting for different board speeds, sometimes it will stay easily afloat and reach bump limits without trouble, some periods it's a zombie thread, but still, it's been going for years

>>21359675
>>21360227
There's a huge latin discord ecosystem.

>>21360530
>discord ecosystem.
you mean cesspool. Them niggas on capitulum quindecim.

>>21360530
The problem with discord is the proclivity trannies have for it. That one Esperanto troon in these threads is enough for me.

>>21360574
>>21360613
Why not make a Latin board on one of the unmentionable altchans?

>>21359675
>If you want to keep this thread alive, bring up interesting topics. Tell us what you're reading.
I found an old graded reader at my local university library called Civis Romanus by Cobban and Coleborun (originally published in 1936, revised in 1974, copy published in 1983). Seems pretty good, but there doesn't seem any convenient copies out there on the Internet, so I've been copying it out like a very shit medieval monk over the last few weeks.

>>21360691
This one?

>>21360713
Yes

>>21360739
If you find a PDF of it let me know

>>21360713
>CivisRomanus. By J. M. COBBAN and R. COLEBOURN. London: Methuen, .jj! 1937. Pp. 128. 2s. 6d. ft Teachers on the outlook for a Reader to supplement the Latin course for the first two Iji years should not fail to examine this book. It begins with the simplest subject—object jjj —verb sentences involving the first and second declensions and the present active of jj the first and second conjugations. Further regular accidence is gradually introduced, |.| and soon the simplest subordinate clauses (ubi, si, quod, postquam) appear. About half-way through relatives and interrogatives begin to be used, and by the end the pupil has become acquainted with the fundamental subjunctive constructions. The book is so arranged that where it is not possible to find time to read the whole, all the grammar and vocabulary involved can be covered by the study of the odd-numbered pieces. The vocabulary is well selected; pupils who have mastered it will have one difficulty the less to meet in the sterner reading of later years. The subject-matter is excellent. War and its accompaniments have their place, but it is on the civilian activities, life in Rome, in the country, in the provinces, that stress is laid. Further, the authors have realized that while the form must be of suitable simplicity for youths of eleven or so, the content need not be insulting to their age. They present stuff for growing boys, not for babes and sucklings. Finally, the book is beautifully got up; paper, printing, and illustrations are all first-rate.

>>21360885
Oh we are past the bump limit, nevermind.

>>21360691
I'm the anon you replied to, and I'm very sorry to hear that. You could simply scan it. If you wanted to go a step further, you could run it through OCR and correct any mistakes the program makes. Regardless, there is a much easier way to digitize that book. I hope the process was not in vain and helped your Latin comprehension.

>>21360683
Moderation helps keep this place what it is. The other chans are garbage.

>>21361187
>immunditia mea melior quam tua

A question that just popped up in my head: are all Latin words ending with -or or -er masculinum? (Even if they are declined in neutrum.)

There's some ancient Greek word that was untranslatable for a long time, until someone figured out it means "based". Does anyone know it?

>>21361187
lol you think it's a spoopy deep web free-for-all over there? BOs are responsible for hiring good active vols.

New Thread: >>21361963
New Thread: >>21361963
New Thread: >>21361963