/lit/ - Literature

>>21250788
Fuck Achaeans. They are a race of babykillers, homosexuals and duyuth. The wrong side won the Trojan War!!!!

What happened to the Latin/Greek mega? Surely Mega does not take things down (especially books) for copyright violations, does it?

>>21250857
> Surely Mega does not take things down (especially books) for copyright violations, does it?
They do, when reported to them.

anyone have rare loebs?

Mega anon here, will reupload this week. Might take a little while due to upload limits.
Will go ahead and upload to a backup Mega as well so the next time some bootlicking homo goes crying to eDaddy there will be little downtime.
Considering making a torrent too and periodically updating it.
Reminder to dl any Megas or archives in their entirety while you can. HD space is cheap.

Lupus ululat: "Uhū!"

>>21250941
Duo lupī in tuō pectore pugnant. Ūnus pathicus est, alter cinaedus. Uter alēs?

>>21250941
Duo lupī in tuō pectore pugnant. Ūnus pathicus est, alter cinaedus. Utrum alēs?

How do you learn greek declensions? I have Anki for vocab but find it very difficult to memorize articles and endings.

>>21251072
practice practice practice, endings are few compared to the size of the vocabulary
you may also exercise with some interactive tools like
http://atticgreek.org/verbdrill/verbDrillByType.html
http://sphinx.metameat.net/sphinx.php
http://verb-o-matic.doink.ch/index_greek.php
or I guess in an old fashioned way by writing them down repeatedly
Greek declension may also look scary at first but especially once you learn the phonetic changes that led to the varied third declension forms, everything makes sense quickly

>>21251108
χάριν σοι ἔχω.

>>21251072
if you're a retarded zoomer like me you probably spend half of your free time watching 8 hour analyses of vidya you haven't played and other garbage. im not saying stop that but you should write declensions and conjugations down over and over again while you watch them.

catullus was a simp and a cuck

>Buy multiple books to try and learn Ancient Greek and keep hitting a block with Declensions and case endings
>Find a pdf of Greek to GCSE online
>I'm finding it much easier
Why is it that other texts and even youtube videos can't seem to just explain shit plainly?

I want to take the Heebpill
Any advice?

Is it realistic to learn both latin and ancient greek in 5-6 years?

>>21252381
"learn" as in being able to tackle most text with a dictionary at hand, certainly

>>21252381
It should not take your more than 3-6 months to be able to read the Vulgate without being overly reliant on a dictionary. Greek will take longer, but if you have done Latin it will give you a head start. I'm guessing it would still take at least twice as long as Latin to read anything significant. You could be lower intermediate in both in 2 years probably if you don't fuck around and skip study days or take "breaks" for months at a time.

>>21252406
What in the world? Maybe if he only studies for half an hour per day.

If not Cicero, who are some of the most difficult Latin writers?

>>21253071
>sexual equality for the ... unattractive
isn't that the incel policy goal as well

>>21252311
Use the Ranieri-Dowling Method™

>>21252446
>It should not take your more than 3-6 months to be able to read the Vulgate without being overly reliant on a dictionary
Using which method?

>>21253084
All of those women are incels.

>>21253131
We are not about to start arguing about methods again. Stop being a faggot and get a grammar primer and LLPSI and read them both. Don't watch any YouTube videos and never ask anyone about Latin in this thread again. All people do is fling shit.

>>21253071
cicero isn't even in the top 5

>>21253200
Hence why I excluded him specifically. I learned that his difficulty is overstated last thread.

Cicero is literally the greatest and most sophisticated writer of the Latin language in history. How do I know? Because autistic faggots repeatedly refuse to name anyone better than him.

>>21251072
>How do you learn greek declensions?
Well, I can only speak from my Latin experience (I have looked through some of the Greek textbooks), but I think the best method is to go old school and just write out the paradigms by hand. However, I think doing the Dowling Method (or the "Ranieri-Dowling Method™") is a bit too much. Instead, I would do the following:

> Good textbooks will introduce list of vocabulary at the end of each chapter. Use those as the base what nouns to decline for that day.
> Start by copying out the declensions straight out of the book, then try to write out the declensions by heart, making sure to go back, check if you were right, and correcting any errors.
> Most importantly, just do a few paradigms at a time, each and every day. IIRC, Dowling says to write out the paradigms 100 times, but I think that's too rigid. Just do it until you have internalized it.

I think I've gotten the Latin declensions down pat, but it seems to me that Greek might be a bit trickier, as it has more sub-classes in its declensions and it has some more stem alternations that might make this process less mechanical.

>>21253188
>Don't watch any YouTube videos and never ask anyone about Latin in this thread again.
What about Latin Tutorial? Those videos seem pretty legit to me.

>>21253071
>A(celleration)istophanes
lol lmao

>>21253071
Isn't Tacitus regarded as a difficult writer?

vvvgh i jvst desire ciceros rock hard latinx writings to penetrate my cerebrvssy vvvvvvvvgh

verification not reqvired

>>21250857
rat

>>21250878
https://ryanfb.github.io/loebolus/
enjoy

>>21253071
Tacitus
Statius
Livy

>>21253258
Don't watch anything else or you are an asshole

So I read the Iliad in translation and didn’t really like it. How much better is the original Homeric Greek?

>>21253071
Tertullian has a reputation for being pretty difficult.

Has anyone else been listening to SuperBunnyHop read The Iliad? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBfvtoguCRU

I like it so far.

Generals like these really show 4chan's true colors. Just a bunch of angry, bitter pseudointellectuals who are way less knowledgeable than they think they are or would like to be, but who nonetheless take every opportunity to belittle everyone around them to cope with their own inadequacy. Hell I'm doing it right now.

>>21253896
based midwit take
>4chan lacks the intellectual part of 'pseudo-intellectual'

>>21253071
Tacitus (particularly his later stuff), Manilius, and Vitruvius are whom I hear named most often.

Other historical languages /ohl/ could be separated from a Graeco-/Helleno-Roman general to encourage a more productive discourse.

>>21253496
yes. greek verse doesn't translate to english well.

>>21254415
I don't think the other historical languages have enough activity to warn their own thread.

>>21254442
Perhaps but it may also only seem that way due to such discourse being effectively drowned out by the evidently cancerous discourse that much of the Greek and Latin learning discussion here has become. Such a thread would have the potential to even bring Larpagans, Islamists, and Judaizers together.

>>21254458
Tried that already, both threads ended up 404ing
Maybe instead of being meta you can just post language-related content

>>21254484
The issue is other discourse is potentially stifled from ever flourishing as a result of the behemoth that the Latin and Greek discussion here is. Segregating it would potentially allow a more productive focus on the respective interests.

>>21254515
>flourishing
Twice that thread was made, twice it went 404 before even 50 posts
you overestimate the number of posters interested in classical languages. Even /clg/ has to bumped to survive.
Lurk moar, you are clearly new

>>21254533
>Lurk moar
And what exactly was it that this supposed thread went by? This general appears to be just reaching a year in age here.

>>21251072
i just stared at eimi for 30 minutes, for lyo i did that like 3 times. use the wikimedia page called ancient greek grammar tables, though its not complete.

>>21254533
I see now you might be referring to what appears to be a few abortive attempts at what was basically another /clg/. Not quite the same thing I suggest which probably deserves more respect than you're giving it.

>>21254599
Then make your dream thread. No one is stopping you. Surely it will not 404 early.

Is there even a point to worrying about your pronunciation? Even if you completely fuck it up you should still be understandable enough during the few times you would ever even try speaking it, right?

>>21254624
I simply wanted to put the idea out there at least in case there were others who feel similarly.

>>21254631
depends on the language
classical chinese – not really
latin –probably not so much, it's always been varied
sanskrit –it absolutely matters, they went to autistic lengths to describe the phonology of the language thousands of years ago, because the sound was seen as a key part of the language

Is there some statistics as to the corpus size of various classical languages, or at least a list of which ones have actual literature as opposed to "x king ruled in y year" and " x sheep were slaughtered in y year"

>>21254631
You won't get metre-based poetry if you don't know which syllables are long.

How difficult is the Greek of Herodotus and Thucydides?

>>21255185
Herodotus - fairly easy. Ionian dialect is not so different from Attic. Mostly straightforward and a good first reading once you're done with introductory learning
Thucydides - hard, pretty much the opposite. Dense and complicated. Pericles' Funeral Oration is one of the most difficult passages in Greek.

Rate my scansion. It's a new system and has exposed Virgil's mistakes

>>21255690
my brother in Diespiter, what the fuck are you doing

I'll probably get called a faggot for this, but to save the thread I will post some questions like I used to in the olden days. Feel free to answer if you see something that sparks your interest.

1. Chinese Bros, How long does it take to be able to read your first original texts with occasional dictionary use for Classical Chinese? Generally speaking of course, assuming you study an hour a day and use the recommended resources and study plan.

2. Sanskrit Bros, people often talk about the large corpus of Sanskrit texts, but can anyone name some of them and describe what they are generally about? What percentage of the corpus is Hindu/Buddhist religious stuff vs texts that are philosophical, historical, mythical, etc in nature?

3. Avestan Bros, I can barely find any information about Avestan other than people saying that it's super close to Sanskrit. Has anyone learned it or known someone who has learned it? Can you share any experiences or your motivation in learning the language?

4. Latin Sisters, at what point do you think you hit that "intermediate hump" or the infamous B2 Plateau where you can't seem to make the big jumps in ability anymore and progress slows? Did you read a particular author that filtered you or did you just get burnt out and forget stuff? What slowed you down and how did you get past it?

5. Greek Bros, I understand that the vocabulary can be the biggest obstacle in reading Greek. Outside of authors like Xenophon or the Gospels, have you ever really sat down and *comfortably* read a Greek text without constantly looking up words?

6. Egyptian Bros, does learning Coptic enrich your understanding of Hieroglyphics in any other ways besides phonological reconstruction? Are you interested in Coptic for other reasons? Has anyone written a modern textbook for the language or are there only old grammars?

7. Syriac Bros, this language seems so cool, but so rare and overlooked. Do you have a community where you discuss it or is this a solitary pursuit? What do you get out of studying this language?

8. Hebros, this language looks deceptively easy. I looked into it after I saw someone here say it's not that bad and I learned the alphabet in like 2 days. I'm suspicious now. Easy alphabet, small corpus, limited vocabulary, familiar names and proper nouns, familiar text - what's the catch?

9. Arabic Bros, the script scares the fuck out of me. Please assure me that this is actually doable. Also I know absolutely nothing about Arabic grammar. Can you give a 3 sentence overview of the basic structure?

10. Akkadian, Ugaritic, Hittite, Sumerian, & Elamite Bros - is it even worth it? I'm not trying to be funny, is it actually worth the time to learn cunieform and read some old tablets or is this a meme?

11. Ethiopinons, are there any interesting differences in Ge'ez manuscripts of Hebrew, Coptic, Greek etc texts that are worth noting? Also what does the language sound like?

>>21250788
thread theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpk9V8Y9WTo&ab_channel=insomniabelow

>>21253622
If it's in Greek, meter, and with music, then I'm interested. If not, I don't care.

>>21257545
>10. Akkadian, Ugaritic, Hittite, Sumerian, & Elamite Bros - is it even worth it? I'm not trying to be funny, is it actually worth the time to learn cunieform and read some old tablets or is this a meme?
Ugaritic cuneiform is a bit of a sham, it's just a weird-looking abjad like Hebrew.

>>21258020
> a weird-looking abjad like Hebrew.
I meant to say: it's an abjad like Hebrew, but weird-looking.

>>21257545
>4. Latin
mmh not sure since I selected texts that generally were always graded well to my level at the time and doable, but I guess there was a time I started with Tacitus' Annals but got discouraged quickly enough for various reasons and reverted back to something else: eventually I did read through Germania and it wasn't easy
I also recall how I had a harder time with Virgil initially, now it's mostly a breeze even though some words I still need to look up
>5. Greek
since you said outside of Xenophon, I guess not yet, though I can read the latter already quite well with only minimal dictionary lookup; I read parts of the Iliad and Herodotus through a guided approach though

>>21254560
It's definitely more than a year old.

>>21258020
You actually learned it? Or you just skimmed through wiki?
>>21258031
>mmh not sure since I selected texts that generally were always graded well to my level at the time and doable
What texts were you reading as you were working up to authors? Any particular annotated or glossed adaptations?
>since you said outside of Xenophon, I guess not yet, though I can read the latter already quite well with only minimal dictionary lookup; I read parts of the Iliad and Herodotus through a guided approach though
Do you feel like it's an attainable goal to read comfortably at some point? And regardless of if it is possible, does it even matter to you?

>>21258050
> You actually learned it? Or you just skimmed through wiki?
Just skimmed through the wiki.

>>21258063
I'm seriously considering learning it to beef up my understanding of Hebrew, but Akkadian, Sumerian etc - idk if I would want to do more than read a grammar and maybe gloss some texts with a dictionary if I needed to look up a specific text for reference.

>>21258050
>What texts were you reading as you were working up to authors? Any particular annotated or glossed adaptations?
of real authors I did Caesar -> Sallust(Catilina) -> Livy(Ab Urbe Condita up to book 3, may pick it up again eventually) -> Virgil(Aenid, work in progress, now halfway through book 3 after having left it aside for a while) -> Tacitus(Germania) then interspersed with some medieval stuff, then I also reverted back to some easier stuff, I read almost all of Eutropius's Breviarium, Einhard's Vita Caroli Magni
after I started Greek I slowed down with the Latin a lot
no particular editions either, just bare bone sources from Wikisource sometimes helping myself with parallel translations
>Do you feel like it's an attainable goal to read comfortably at some point?
I hope so, I guess it also depends on the material I'm going to get into eventually, like Plato. Once I finish with Xenophon I'll either jump straight into it or maybe do as I did with Latin and try to power through some author that is understood as being up there in difficulty like Tacitus(I guess Thucydides will do in the case of Greek)
for e.g the Iliad given the peculiarity of the vocabulary just reading a few books would be enough though it would be great to finish them all
but I don't think it's that important, I'm not doing this academically, I think I'll also eventually not have much time once my NEETing days are over, but I'd like to get at a level good enough to be comfortable engaging with most works with the help of a dictionary, some patience and without getting too discouraged

>>21257545
>1. Chinese Bros
You don't ever "learn" Classical Chinese fluently, you just get increasingly good at looking things up and remembering something from the last time that you looked it up. This is how Classical Chinese has always worked, and it's how scholars of Classical Chinese works today in China access the works, and it's how they always have and always will.

>2. Sanskrit Bros
The Vedas, which is a massive literary corpus, for starters. There's a huge canon of Sanskrit literature. Buddhist literature tends to be mostly in Pali, however, or various other languages (such as Chinese or Tibetan).

>3. Avestan Bros
Do you know French, German, Russian, etc? You might find better luck. Dumezil and Calvert Watkins both learned it, but Dumezil was also French.

>5. Egyptian Bros
Is it helpful to know Modern English in order to learn Proto-Germanic? There's a bigger gap between Proto-Germanic and Modern English than there is between Coptic and the oldest stratum of Egyptian. Anyways, there's zero reason to learn Coptic if you want to read hieroglyphics. The Copts are basically Christian Arabs; Coptic identity derives from the Egyptians who rejected Egyptian culture and religion, after all. Even the writing system is different (the Coptic alphabet is a Greek with bits of Demotic, with actual Demotic being sort of an abjad), and like Ancient Greek there's actual several Coptic Alphabets, plural, that get normalized to the singular one that academics use for ease.

>>21258104
>no particular editions either, just bare bone sources from Wikisource sometimes helping myself with parallel translations
Everyone who I've seen ACTUALLY learned to read Latin keeps saying this: just jump in and fucking grind. I need to take this advice and stop fucking around with kids stuff. Whenever I look at Eutropius I get scared and run back to intermediate readers. Need to stop being a fucking pussy.
>but I'd like to get at a level good enough to be comfortable engaging with most works with the help of a dictionary, some patience and without getting too discouraged
You seem to have a very level head about you. I need to take my time, but put in the effort like you. You inspire me bro, I hope you make it and achieve your goals.

>>21258136
>You don't ever "learn" Classical Chinese fluently, you just get increasingly good at looking things up
DAMN. Thank you for answering at least.
>The Vedas, which is a massive literary corpus, for starters
Will look up, thank you!
>Do you know French, German, Russian, etc?
In progress.
>Anyways, there's zero reason to learn Coptic if you want to read hieroglyphics.
I'm actually the other way around. I want to learn Coptic and have a mild interest in eventually dabbling in hieroglyphs, but it's not a priority.

My county splits classics, either classics (no language), Greek (language plus classic course) or else Rome (classic course + Latin)

I'm assuming based on sheer knowledge, Greek would be better and then take up Rome/Latin in my own time?

>>21258620
>I'm assuming based on sheer knowledge, Greek would be better and then take up Rome/Latin in my own time?
Why would you assume that?

>>21258620
>classics (no language)
wtf is that bs

>>21258631
I thought Rome mostly just took random shit from Greece and adapted it
I figured it'd be better to start with Greece because of that. Plus I find Greece a bit more interesting
>>21258654
Country pushes double major for arts/humanities so like, you would be expected to take classics + greek/latin but I am taking something else instead so have to pick greek or latin

>>21258747
>I thought Rome mostly just took random shit from Greece and adapted it
>I figured it'd be better to start with Greece because of that. Plus I find Greece a bit more interesting
Um, if you are learning both, Latin is easier and will help with Greek. If you are going to take Greek only because that's all you care about, then that's fine. But if you plan on doing both, I would do Latin first.

>>21253496
You're an imbecile for asking.

It is midnight, and I'm sitting alone in my quiet room, translating a passage of Thucydides for class tomorrow. As the world is crumbling around me, it feels good to be connected to an ordered history.
Keep on keeping on, everyone.

>>21251072
Honestly learn them halfway and then learn the less common forms as you read and look them up if needed. Like you should know singular and plural Nom/Acc/Dat/Gen for all non obscure nouns and often gender is easy to tell in Greek with the “the” articles. It’s a dead language, if it were a living one I would say to memorize more, but you’re just reading something and never writing and certainly NEVER speaking it so have fun and getting into texts with a decent but not perfect base is time better spent imo.

>>21254458
So Greek and Latin discourse becomes cancerous, but somehow, in the void left by their absence, "Larpagans, Islamists, and Judaizers" will come together. What noncancerous results do you envision of this togetherness?

>>21253496
You're not going to like it. If you're already learning Greek, take a look at once you get through your grammar. Maybe, you'll come to respect it.

>>21258762
It doesn't really matter what you do first. I did a semester of Latin, then a year of Greek. Then back to Latin while doing more Greek. My story is a long one, but I think I am in a position to comment, given my unusual path. Doing Latin before Greek is just a small edge. Perhaps, a larger edge can be obtained by pursuing one's greatest passion first.

>>21259164
>Doing Latin before Greek is just a small edge.
You never tried to learn Greek from scratch so Idk how much I believe that.

>>21259165
A semester of Latin is not a big head start. The anon is asking about learning Greek at a university and doing Latin in his spare time or vice versa. I remember this anon from a few weeks ago. I think he is Italian. If I were him, I'd rather take my chances with learning Latin on my own rather than Greek on my own, especially if I was Italian.

>>21258762
If Latin is easier, it would make sense to self-learn it and undertake the harder language with an instructor, especially since there are more, better resources out there for a Latin self-learner.

comprobui sententiam caesaris

could i say this?

>>21259005
It may still be cancerous, but at least there'll be some variety

>>21259338
Perhaps, a name change is in order. People seem to get hung up on the "classical" part of this thread's name. What if we called it /alg/, pronounced algae? Perhaps, that would attract more anons to visit the thread. As a result, the textbook bickering could be drowned out and possibly made extinct via a virtuous cycle. /alg/ could stand for ancient languages general, or it could mean ancient literature general, thus bringing in a crowd of normies who don't know any languages. But that might not be desirable. Anyway, I've learned to largely disregard the bickering, so i don't require any change. Feelsgoodman.

>>21259621
>it could mean ancient literature general, thus bringing in a crowd of normies who don't know any languages
pls no

>>21259175
>>21259309
Seconding these
In college I knew a guy who started with Greek - 4 years in his high school - and his Latin was still much better despite beginning in uni. Then again he was a stoner and not great at either.

>>21258163
I want to elaborate or Chinese for a second before some faggot gets upset:

With IE/AA langs, you need huge tables of inflectional morphology memorized before you can even think about vocabulary. In ST, with VERY few but VERY notable exceptions, the grammar and vocabulary are the same as there is no inflectional morphology (although spoken Old Chinese did have derivational morphology, but it's not reflected in writing: scale vs to weigh: thung vs mathungks; the collapse of this is why Chinese languages have tones).

Thus, Classical Chinese is "actually" a register of Modern Mandarin (and vice versa) as it's all about the characters used and their meaning (which may have differed back then). So, yes, you can learn and memorize this stuff, but because many of these characters have a gazillion niche uses, you end up just looking them up anyways because character X means "the optative mood of the prior noun" here, but "the back left foot of a female cat" there, and "to eat rice with your feet" over there.

YOUSTUS AREUS AUS FAGGOTUS ANDUS OP'US ISUS ALWAYUS AUS FAGGOTUS

>>21259319
>comprobui
no, 1st conjugation regular perfect is comprobavi

>>21257545
>Classical Chinese
I know modern Mandarin to a very high level. I've spent some time learning Classical Chinese, and my impression is it's not worth it unless you want to dedicate your life to Sinology (I'd rather kill myself). The issue isn't vocabulary but deciphering the cultural context and the many possible definitions of characters. Not to mention most people use modern Mandarin pronunciation which is NOTHING like how it would have sounded like.

>Arabic
Generally VSO with copula often omitted in present tense. Classical Arabic is weird in that it has noun declensions but most of them are invisible when written so you can only get so creative with word order. The verbal system is the hardest part of Arabic and Arabic really benefits from a grammar-translation approach of studying all the paradigms and patterns systemically. Vowels aren't written in most texts for natives so you will be a slave to learning material for a long time in order to read the script fluently without diacritics.

>Sanskrit
I don't study this language but keep in mind the Vedas are in Vedic Sanskrit, which is different than Classical Sanskrit (less regular, harder).

Mega back up
Added a few texts as well, check update log
Reminder to archive and backup, just a matter of time before it is taken down again
https://mega.nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw

>>21260400
based

>>21257545
Also been wondering if Akkadian/Sumerian are worth it

>>21260226
>Not to mention most people use modern Mandarin pronunciation which is NOTHING like how it would have sounded like
Does that mean Classical Chinese has no ching chong?

>>21260610
Their entire corpus is literally horoscopes and omens.
If a dog shat on the left, the crops will wither.

>>21260400
Do I need an account to download all this? How do I transfer it to my device?

>>21260615
It sounds like a retarded Punjabi.

>>21260652
Good Lord have mercy on the zoomers.
Hover over the folder or file you want, look for three dots on the lower right. click, then download.
You are limited to a certain amount per day so do so in small chunks.

>>21260627
Gilgamesh?

>>21260627
Akkadian sounds really nice though

>>21260708
You have like 3.5 literary texts in Akkadian out there:
Gilgamesh
Atrahasis
Enuma Elish
The Epic of Erra

+ 2 supershort Sumerian "epics" of 100 lines length (and part of them broken) about Lugalbanda
2 supershort "epics" about Enmerkar
and a few short story myths about Inanna and other gods.

The rest of the corpus are prayers, exorcisms, omens, "medicine" (more prayers and omens), divinations, autistic catalogs of word lists, and laws. Highly technical bureaucracy documentation, but completely unscientific and useless.

>>21260748
No wonder there are thousands of tablets still untranslated. I bet there's like ten people on earth qualified for it

>>21260748
Sure, but at least there's something, unlike in Elamite.

>>21250857
They dio, anon

>>21260748
Shouldn't prayers, exorcisms, songs, omens, divinations etc. count as literature? They're often written stylistically and poetically.

>>21259621
I proposed separate Graeco-Roman and other historical languages /ohl/ threads. >>21254415

I doubt any of those other historical would have the potential individually to overwhelm threads as much.

>>21261000
*other historical languages

Are there actually any learners of the other languages to sustain a thread?

>>21261117
No, that's why we have a classical languages thread that anyone can come to. There's Ethiopianon, maybe two people who do Chinese, A biblical Hebrew Jew, a post about mesopotamia every two months and idk a poo doing Sanskrit? Compare that to the apparently 46 unique posters in this slow general.

>>21261117
Doesn't even have to be people seeking to become optimally fluent in a language but simply dabbling in it for their own interest. It's harder to truly tell how many there would be if discussion about is constantly swamped by that of the other major languages here.

Consider how Japanese has it's own thread on /int/ due to the popular demand for it. The person who created this general migrated from there because they weren't getting what they wanted out of it. Creating new threads and boards for compartmentalized interests is well within the spirit of this site.

>>21261155
Maybe the solution is therefore a dedicated Graeco-Roman/Helleno-Roman thread and a historical languages general.

>>21261155
>It's harder to truly tell how many there would be if discussion about is constantly swamped by that of the other major languages here
I'd say those are what's keeping the threads long enough alive for the people that are into the more minor languages to see and post in them. If you did an experiment of starting a seperate general I'd wager 8/10 it'd 404 pretty quickly while the other times the timing just happens to be good. There's also no reason to starting two language related generals on /lit/ (even if this is the best place).

>>21261268
8/10 times

>>21261169
When are you going to give up on this dream? This has been tried so many times and the non-Roman languages thread died even faster than the exiled thread.

>>21253431
>Livy
Having read translations of several of his "books" before, it's difficult to imagine something so dry and matter-of-fact being much harder than Caesar.

>>21261268
Even if it isn't possible for such a thing to instantly materialize I'd say that it doesn't cease from being a compelling point. As it is, the best that people curious about other languages get is a loose response on just basic introductory aspects of multiple other languages at once >>21258136 , >>21260226 , and responses largely discouraging the prospective enthusiasts from inquiring further >>21260748 , while the bickering about the bald man carries on.

>>21258041
You sure?
>>/lit/thread/S19726632#p19726632

>>21261278
I'm not so much insisting as fail to see that I'm truly mistaken. There's never been a dedicated non-Roman languages thread or much of an commitment to do such by your account so that's a disingenuous claim on your part.

>>21261346
>There's never been a dedicated non-Roman languages thread
Newfag detected. We literally tried this multiple times over the past 2 years retard. It never worked.

>>21261348
>continues to make unsubstantiated claims while throwing ad hominems around
opinion discarded

>>21261387
>unsubstantiated claims
listen kid, I'm sorry you were at school and missed it, but we already tried this. Why on earth would I waste my time lying about a thread existing? What could anyone possibly gain from that?

In Caesar:
Una erat magno usui res praeparata a nostris, falces praeacutae insertae adfixaeque longuriis, non absimili forma muralium falcium.
is "forma" in the ablative? why? is that just the case absimili takes?

κατὰ τήνδε ἑσπέραν σποδήσω τὴν μητέρα ὑμῶν, ὦ βάταλοι.

>>21261434
>Una erat magno usui res praeparata a nostris, falces praeacutae insertae adfixaeque longuriis, non absimili forma muralium falcium
it is because of the ab

>>21261434
yes, looks like an ablative of quality, which appears often especially describing quality in men

>>21261469
that makes sense to me

>>21260615
hao3 好 = good << qhoo?
hao4 好 = to like << qhoo?s
cheng1 称 = thuŋ
cheng4 称 = muthuŋks
jiao1 教 = to teach << sk?raw
jiao4 教 = instruction << sk?raws
zhong1 中 = center << truŋ
zhong4 中 = to hit the center << truŋs
chong2 重 = to repeat << mtroŋ
chong4 重 = to be heavy << ntroŋ?s

h is aspiration (breathy), ŋ=-ng, ? is the glottal stop (just stop making sound, like hyphen/pause in uh-huh), oo=the GOOSE vowel

>>21261117
i dont post and ive been checking these threads out for about 2 years since i started latin. im assuming theres a lot like myself

>>21261336
I'm quite certain. I've been on this board for a year-and-a-half, and I can remember there being /clg/ back then. I distinctly remember threads of high quality and frequent posting. A /clg/, if that's what it was called, thread would only last 2-3 days before reaching the bump limit. I also remember a Polish Assyriology student who wrote a poem in cuneiform and posted pictures. This definitely was not on /int/ because I don't go there, but I do recall people mention a precious /clg/ or Latin thread on /int/.

>>21260763
There's more quality literature than that anon is letting on. Also, there is a massive surplus of Assyriologists. Last year, I learned that there are no available teaching jobs and that a bunch of the non-teaching Assyriologists work freelance, going around to museums to help them understand their collections of clay tablets (appraise, evaluate, catalog, advise, and possibly translate). An Assyriologist might also be employed as a community college professor to teach introductory Bible and mythology classes. It's pretty rough out there for Assyriologists.

>>21261936
Here's an earliest one from a few months prior. /lang/ used to be on here before being moved to /int/.
>>/lit/thread/S19281510#p19281510

>>21262076
I remember that thread. I see one of my posts.

>>21255311
native greek here. I read it in ancient greek and as someone who hasnt read in it i could catch on a lot of what was said (without of course being able to make a good translation ). This is motivating , maybe with 6 months of grammar and reading teh testament i could be reading this almost fluently . Also huge respect to you chads for learning it from 0 .How do you acquire all that vocabulary without constant exposure ?

>>21262380
Burger here who lives near no Greek community and has never been to Greece or Cyprus or anywhere where Greek is spoken.
By reading constantly. That's it. Gotta make our exposure if we can't be so lucky as you, ὦ ξένε ἓλλην.

>>21261000
again, no one is stopping you from making that thread. You seem to be full of propositions but have no desire to actually do anything about it yourself. Instead you needlessly bring it up over and over in these threads, waiting for someone else to put your 'idea guy' ideas into action. I suspect you don't know any classical or historical languages.
Make your dream thread and watch it fail.

>>21253071
Sallust has a reputation for using ridiculous vocabulary, Petronius can be pretty difficult, and all the ones people already mentioned

>>21262409
There are 200,000 Albanian Greeks, and there are smaller Greek diaspora communities around the Mediterranean. There are lots of Greeks in America, and they aren't confined to the big cities either. Unless you haven't ventured outside of your rural county and know everyone, you've probably met a Greek speaker. The Greeks are quite good at educating their children in Greek. It's pleasing to see.

>>21262380
>How do you acquire all that vocabulary
memory palace / method of loci

Just visualize enough rooms to store memes for each word, 20-50 words per day, and they would then be retrieved rather easily.

>>21263304
>memory palace
What would be a good book on the matter?

>>21263424
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5-YrZhudPU

>>21263438
Is this enough info to use the method effectively?

>>21263454
You could randomly check some other videos on that channel, but, essentially, yes, this 8-minute info should be sufficient enough.

It's super simple, but some people just don't have enough willpower to sit and spend 3-4 minutes per word.

>>21263484
>3-4 minutes per word
couldn't you save some time by adding the vocab to anki and also including the associated images/sensations?

>>21263513
>adding the vocab to anki
Tried it, didn't work.
The point is to remember *where* the word is. So you can recall it almost instantly later. And if you forgot it, you start to vividly remember the positions of neighbouring words, and it comes back.

In case of Anki, it's some random shuffling. Once you are past a certain amount, it completely overwhelms you and collapses upon itself.


>>3-4 minutes
Also, I might have been overcautious, and should have said 2-3 minutes.

>>21263536
Is this method more effective/is reading easier with it long term than using anki? If it is as reliable as it seems I might as well use it over anki.

>>21263552
>long term
yes

why do i suck so hard at latin
ive put so many hours in

How do you call a textbook like LLPSI? Are there such books for learning other languages? I'm learning Hebrew (contemporary, but ancient Hebrew isn't too different) and considering my level and my way of learning, a Hebrew LLPSI would be ideal for me

>>21263648
>How do you call a textbook like LLPSI?
Nature Method

>Are there such books for learning other languages?
Not much
https://blog.nina.coffee/2018/08/27/all_nature_method_books.html

>I'm learning Hebrew
Some redditor claims this should be it
https://www.reddit.com/r/hebrew/comments/x0v831/biblical_hebrew_by_the_nature_method/
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq1vmb-z7PpQt2PDNUr7XOzBjWAOWf0Rt

When the translation is different from the original I'm never sure if I'm a retard or they were liberally doing it.

>>21263668
>Nature
Immersion. Grammar isn't unnatural little retard anon, although somehow llspi manages to print grammar despite the entire point being you don't study it at all.

μὰ τὸν Δία Λύκε, παύθητι

aaaaah im gonna write a spoooooondaic foot

How's this?

ἰδόντα δὲ καὶ θαυμάσαντα καταβῆναι
when he beheld and wondered he went down

To me this sound strange because of the infinitive instead of κᾰτέβη because the infinitive would more imply I thought he was wondering about going down rather than that.

>>21264426
Its from Plato if that helps

>>21264426
What is the context of this? It could be infinitive of indirect discourse, one of the main ways of presenting indirect speech in greek.

>>21264474
ἰδόντα δὲ καὶ θαυμάσαντα καταβῆναι καὶ ἰδεῖν ἄλλα τε δὴ ἃ μυθολογοῦσιν θαυμαστὰ καὶ ἵππον χαλκοῦν, κοῖλον, θυρίδας ἔχοντα, καθ᾽ ἃς ἐγκύψαντα ἰδεῖν ἐνόντα νεκρόν

Amazed at the sight, he descended into the opening, where, among other marvels, he beheld a hollow brazen horse, having doors, at which he stooping and looking in saw a dead body of stature, as appeared to him

>>21264426
it's indirect discourse introduced by φασιν, hence the infinitive phrase

>>21264490
I fell silly now yeah that makes sense the same as in English too I just forgot it was a narration so.
Thank you.

>>21264486
All the main verbs are in the infinitive, so it is most likely indirect speech. Sometimes the main verb of saying or speaking may be omitted if it is clear from the context, like it seems to be here. Here is a relevant note.

>>21264501
Yeah looking in my language book I remember reading thatnow

>>21263615
They were not quality hours. You were distracted.

>>21264852
I'm distracted right now

is it better to stick to learning one language, or does that just depend on the individual?

>>21265406
Depends on if another language will take away time from the first.

>>21250788
Is literacy in Greek and Latin reasonable in two years? Not trying to be fluent at all, just want to read the classic kinos.

>>21266109
No. Not even for Xenophon.

>>21266109
Depends what you mean by literacy but yes, within a year if you work hard. I mean they train people to be fluent in very difficult foreign languages to the point of speaking perfectly fluently within 6 months or something like that, and you're looking to do something 1/10 as difficult in 2x as much time, so it's not that far fetched.

If you mean true fluency in the sense of like someone who has studied it for ten years, no, but if you want to just be reading texts at a decent level then yes. As long as your expectations are reasonable, like you don't think you're going to sight read Thucydides in a year. Hard stuff will always be hard, you just get better at coping and the learning curve goes down instead of disappearing

Look at it like a serious hobby, not something you pick at once a week, take it seriously and you'll do well.

bump

>>21266121
Bullshit. It's common to be reading Xenophon after finishing an introductory Greek textbook. Instead of reading the end of Athenaze, my class read the Anabasis. The anon didn't ask if fluency was possible but if it is possible to read the book competently. The answer to that is yes, not just based on my experience after 1.5 years of Greek but the experiences of many others.

>>21267820
Book 1 is easy enough but it gets tougher after. I remember spending 20-30 minutes on a single sentence at times. After a year of Greek you can probably translate the whole book but I wouldn't call that literacy.

>>21266121
(you)

>>21260913
Italian spotted

Is there even material on learning linear b? I'm not planning on learning it, just curious.

>>21268579
>Is there even material on learning language x?
Idk why I have to say this for every language, but ok I'll keep saying it:
>search "linear B" on Amazon with the "books" filter on
>Copy and paste book title into Archive.org or Libgen
>Go to Linear B Wikipedia page
>scroll down to bibliography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_B#References
>>Copy and paste book title into Archive.org or Libgen

Please try to be a little more resourceful. I'm getting tired of posting this over and over again.

PVLSVS

>>21269024
What is linear b?

>>21270457
Writing system for Mycenaean Greek which is unrelated to Phoenician or Sumerian unlike the later Greek script.

>>21268579
A bit of searching shows Linear B: An Introduction (1991) by J. T. Hooker [Bristol Classical Press]. Not sure how good it is. Goes without saying, but it assumes you know at least a bit of Greek.
https://www.amazon.ca/Linear-B-Introduction-J-T-Hooker/dp/0906515629/

>>21269024
>try to be a little more resourceful
I will do so in the future
>>21270793
Thanks for the book

>>21266121
Reasonable with consistent (daily) well-directed effort.

>>21266121
Not everyone is stupid.

>>21258970
holy based
are you me

Where can I find Old English texts online for free?

>Lydia cōnsistit oculōsque ad tabernam Albīnī vertit
is there an implied (suōs) oculōs here and does latin never use reflexive possessives in this construction?

>>21273321
>is there an implied (suōs) oculōs here
yes, Romance languages can do that too

>>21272055
Sorry I was rude for no reason.

>>21250788
>just waste your life learning irrelevant phrases to impress midwits bro

>>21273183
libgen
project gutenberg
archive org

>>21273708
bro you are shitposting on /clg/ in 4chan. you are the one wasting your life. Τα αγαθά κόποις κτώνται

For anybody who has studied Latin, then Greek: when did you decide to make the jump? Were you proficient enough in Latin beforehand?

>>21275129
>Were you proficient enough in Latin beforehand?
I would say intermediate but using Latin as a reverse definition for AG has made me more proficient plus I've made Latin translations of the AG passages from Athenaze for fun for extra "levels" (although they may not be exactly correct Latin)

>>21273708
That's 4chan in general

>>21275129
already in that phase where you can only grind for more vocabulary through reading actual texts and you are basically natural when it comes to grammar
could I sight-read Tacitus' Annales for the first time? nope, but with a dictionary, a bag of patience and slowly? sure

anyone done old tibetan

Goofy ahh nigga askin bout "old tibetan"...

>>21277379
only at miller grove

>>21277379
Nawwww

the vulgate is useless for learning classical latin, idk why so many people act like it isn't

>>21277863
Why?

>>21277941
the vocabulary and syntax are quite different

>>21277258
No. Classical Tibetan, maybe.

Does anyone here know where one can downliad Aristotelis Opera Omnia edited by Bekker? It's on archive.org, but the pdfs i have downloaded of it from there all went very hard on my pc and took several minutes to load each page separately.

>>21278984
Would have been the Latin & Greek Mega which had massive folders of original texts, but it's been taken down.

>>21279121
>>21260400

>>21279121
>>21279152
Thanks, unfortunately, it doesn't have it, but still has some of the writings.

>>21277863
I’m learning Latin solely to read the Vulgate, so I don’t give a fuck about Caesar or Cicero. Reading In Catalinam is like a completely different language, much harder. You have to remember the Vulgate is a translation of basic prose. The original language texts were not written in a high literary register, so how can you assume a translation to be more eloquent? It’s beautiful for what it is, though.

>>21279255
??? Unless you're very tradcath (and even then) I don't understand why you'd learn latin just for the vulgate. It'd make more sense to learn greek at that point.

>>21277379
>Goofy ahh nigga
Someone in that thread told me "ahh" means "out here"
Goofy out here nigga

>>21250788
does loeb have the best bilingual editions of the iliad and the odyssey?

holy shit I have institutional access to the LCL

>Erunt etiam, et hi quidem eruditi Graecis litteris, contemnentes Latinas, qui se dicant in Graecis legendis operam malle consumere.
wow, so greeksnobs have always existed

>>21279398
I was filtered. Vulgate is hard enough that I can push and learn it. Greek is pretty difficult even for easier texts, and more complex grammatically than Latin. I’m just a lazy guy.

>>21280499
you can learn all the grammar and enough vocabulary for the bible in 3-4 months to start reading. it really isn't very difficult

>>21280573
After beginning at Matthew in the Vulgate I was smooth sailing by Ch.10, save for vocabulary (which I just add as I encounter it) it only took a few months of daily grinding. I feel Greek would be way harder. Latin has so many cognates I’ll stick with its ease.

>>21280499
Anon with all due respect, you can get to much higher points in your learning journey if you keep reading progressively harder texts. I'm around 11 months in just trying to read a page or so every day, sometimes more, sometimes I don't read at all. The point is, the Vulgate got really easy. You'll find it more enjoyable the moment you read things such as Ad Alpes, Roma Aeterna etc. and you can actually understand most of, which is not an unrealistic goal at all. Keep going latinbro

bump

>>21250842
The losing side founded Rome and western civilization

>>21258970
This. Why are so many people learning greek/latin like they're going to write in it? I did 2 years of ancient greek in school and learnt almost no vocabulary. Instead we just got declensions and verb conjugations and grammar rules drilled into our heads. I cannot read a single text in greek, but i can understand the grammatical structure of each sentence. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Surely you just need to know vocabulary and basic declensions/conjugations and get the rest from context while reading.

Does anyone actually try to consistently do this in this day and age?

>>21282888
it comes rather natural, and happens often in poetry, though reading prose in my mind it's probably not consistent

>>21282733
>I did 2 years of ancient greek
>I cannot read a single text in greek
Blame the schools, it most definitely is not a you problem

>>21282888
read Plautus

>>21279255
>The original language texts were not written in a high literary register,
This is incorrect. The Hebrew of the Bible is quite literary and is on par with the best Semitic literature. The Hebrew Bible is a highly refined text and many of the stories contained within it are reworkings of general Semitic myths and legends. Goethe's Faust isn't the only Faust there is, but it is widely considered to be the finest. The Hebrew Bible contains some of the best versions of these myths and legends both in terms of narrative and literary style. Historical stories are also well-done.

>>21251072
Chant them

>>21283684
>reworkings of general Semitic myths
Read:
Gmirkin R.E. - Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible (2017)
Gmirkin R. - Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus. Hellenistic Histories and the Date of the Pentateuch (2006)
Wajdenbaum Ph. - Argonauts of the Desert. Structural Analysis of the Hebrew Bible (2014)
Wesselius J.-W. - Origin of the History of Israel. Herodotus' Histories as Blueprint for the First Books of the Bible (2002)

The vast majority of the Bible content, however, is reworkings of general Greek myths.
The Semitic parts, the Hellenized Jews got from Berossus, the Hellenized Babylonian writer, i.e. through greek-speaking sources as well.

Are there comic books in Greek? I saw Astérix in Latin so there must be some in Greek aswell, no?
t.retard

>>21283602
The scan is actually from his Amphitryo rewritten by Orberg, but I was too busy understanding what the text means to try and appreciate the meter.

>>21284635
https://www.astrikur.net/?l=grc&v=eastmed&popup=true
Apparently only few titles

>>21283955
We've been through this already. You and that guy you're a fan of, Gmirkin, are retarded. Learn Hebrew, learn Greek, learn a few more Semitic languages, and then do a lot of reading in those languages. I already have. The stories of the Bible are Semitic stories written by Semites.

>>21283598
Well I had good grades in all my greek tests so I don't think the problem is that I was bad at it, rather that we were being taught the wrong things. it was just an example, the point is that it doesnt make sense to fixate on grammar when learning a dead language

>>21284885
>Learn Hebrew, learn Greek
Athamas and Phrixos => Abraham and Isaac
Ixion, the first murderer, having a son Caineos => Cain, the first murderer
goddess Nephele, spawning nonhuman demi-god races => the nephelim
etc.

>>21284885
>learn a few more Semitic languages
And apparently Ancient Near Eastern texts are all bereft of the legislation problems, that one can find both in the bible and the Greek texts. Oy.

Salve

>>21285118
who are you talking to?

>>21285123
(you)

>>21285032
>>21285045
I'm not going to listen to the words of a parrot, much less a parrot that mimics a retard.

Is it really worth memorizing every single Tiberian vowel marking for Biblical Hebrew? The original Bible was written without vowels, and some of the vowels are pronounced identically in practice. There isn't even an agreement on what it originally sounded like.

Biblical Hebrew grammar books, like Lambdin's, spend an insane amount of time on the finer details of something that doesn't seem that important for comprehension. It seems like you could make progress faster if you didn't memorize all these autistic vocalization rules.

At least with Arabic the differences between the long and short vowels are clear and distinguishable in speech.

>>21285546
>Noooo, you lie!11
Okay, boomer.

>>21285629
Aleph with Beth seem to ignore the long/short distinction, but not the reduced vowels, so that's what I'm going with.

>>21285629
The Masoretes were geniuses, and it is their work, along with other ancient and medieval Jews, which has shown me that Jews have always been smart. I assume you are at the very beginning of learning Hebrew. I was frustrated by pointing back then too. Trust me, when you learn verbs, they will become an essential tool, and when you become an expert, they will be helpful, if the text has them, but not entirely necessary. There is a whole discipline dedicated to the study of pointing, and the scholars involved are said to be on another level from other scholars in biblical studies.
>>21285660
Don't learn Hebrew from phonies online. Learn pointing; don't ignore it.

>>21285630
Gmirkin's scholarship is like that of a Kabbalist, an apocalypticist, and those Mormons who use archaeology to prove that Jews/Phoenicians settled America.

>>21285785
>Jews have always been smart.
Not smart enough to get baptised

>>21285797
Sounds based af. I wasn't interested before but I will definitely check him out now.

>>21285857
pwned

>>21285629
>ashkenazi pronounciation
don't learn this, you'll end up learning a hebrew that sounds like inbred german rather than what it actually sounds like. Obviously you're never gonna learn a hebrew that sounds exactly like the original biblical, but at least it will sound like a regular semitic language if you learn sefardi/teimani pronounciation.

>>21286440
nevermind i am a complete midwit, i saw the 'ei' and got stuck on that. I'm not learning biblical hebrew but am jewish so I know the basics. ignore this

found music in latin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpvX8FqAg-M

>>21285785
>Trust me, when you learn verbs, they will become an essential tool
NTA, am learning contemporary hebrew but like to read some tanakh and see what i understand every know and then. Because you're only ever going to be reading biblical hebrew, do you actually need to know the differences between the differences between each diacritic rather than just learning e/i/o/u and maybe the difference between the two main Es and As ? Surely if you know the verb and the general rules of conjugation for the verb's binyan (without the specific diacritics, just e/i/o/u pronunciation) you'll understand it without needing to be autistic about the vowels no?

>>21286472
I'm not entirely sure what it is you're asking and what you already understand. I will say this. As you know, Modern Hebrew usually doesn't employ pointing. The reason for that, as with pre-Masorete Hebrew, is that readers are familiar enough with the language to differentiate (using transliteration forms for ease of typing) qatal (3MS Perf) from qtol (2MS Imp), qtol (Construct Inf), and qotel (AP). There's also the issue of differentiating qatal (Qal) from qittel (Pi'el, second t added here to very clearly illustrate the dagesh) and quttal (Pu'al) as well as distinguishing some Hiph'il forms from Hoph'al ones.
Then, there's the issue of distinguishing שמ from sham (there, then, thither) from shem (name or the guy called Name), shum (also meaning name). There are lots of words in Hebrew that share the same consonants. The only way to tell them apart is with context or vowels. If you're a beginner, vowels help a lot. If you don't know the context, as in the case of a fragmented text, vowels can help too. I've seen instances where the Masoretes pointed something in a very improbable way to produce a more theologically acceptable result. If you're studying the Bible seriously, Masoretic input is impossible to ignore.
A few years ago, I learned Aramaic. The first semester was Daniel and Ezra. The second was the targums. In the first semester, I argued with and thanked the Masoretes. In the second semester, it felt a bit more lonely and empty. It was up to me to determine tiebreakers when they came up. These tiebreaker scenarios didn't occur constantly, and they weren't always a big deal, but they happened often enough that they were a memorable part of the class. These problems weren't just limited to my "foolish" class. The commentators threw their hands in the air too.
Just know that the points are there for a reason, that they are to help you with pronunciation and comprehension. It's your choice to use or ignore them, but I can tell you that Jews have been craving vowels for a very long time, as seen with planar vowels (I think that's what they're called), which are a later addition because Phoenician lacks them. By planar vowels, I'm referring to waw's, yod's, and he's that aid in pronunciation, which are obviously quite old.

Exactly how many first declension masculines are there? I keep seeing the nondescript "a few" but if it's only like 20 then you can just remember them.

The weirdest thing about Ancient Greek to me is the huge amount of seemingly useless particles sprayed all over it.

Can someone explain why ārido modo pūmice expolītum is supposed to be eleven syllables?
I count twelve: ā ri do mo do pū mi ce ex po lī tum
But Catullus 1 is Phalaecean/hendecasyllabic meter.

>>21287994
>ce ex
elision makes this one syllable
>>21287529
A few. You could learn them all but some are quite rare and not worth learning until you come across them.
>>21287889
>useless particles
No particles are useless. They add a ton of flavor and nuance to the text. Greek without particles is like English text-to-speech - completely lacking in any humanity.

>>21288026
Na it just sounds weird
>Yes indeed truly he was a just man
>As well of course I disagree he was not in fact just
Just sounds like that ngl fr

>>21288145
>fr fr no cap he was a just man

>>21288145
retard zoomer. you are the reason the Classics are dying in the West

>>21288145
>Just sounds like that ngl fr
If you were attempting to be ironic you need to work on your execution. This reads like a genuine example of retard babble niggerspeak.

They say Ecclesiastical Latin pronunciation doesn't observe the long/short vowel distinction. My question is how do they determine word stress? You'd get bad-sounding Latin like, "te-NE-bram", or "dimit-TE-re" Anyone know how they get around this?

>>21288594
Romance languages retained which syllable was stressed in most cases, so at least in some countries that was a non-issue.
In fact, I'm also skeptical about
> They say Ecclesiastical Latin pronunciation doesn't observe the long/short vowel distinction.
Some medieval poetry uses the long/short distinction, so it could not have been completely forgotten.

>Verba anomala