/lit/ - Literature

You already posted this thread.

>read Ludovici's memoirs of the Great War
>he served on the front line in major British offenses, including the Somme
>all his memoir goes on about is how the horses dying made him sad

>>21191376
no i haven't

>>21191368
A bit of a bad faith post, but yeah Junger is based. Although he didn't really like war for being honourable, he liked it for being excruciatingly difficult and dangerous.
>>21191382
You mean Anthony Ludovici? I did not realise he had WW1 memoirs. I might read that lol, the only thing I've read from him is a bunch of essays and he seems like the most based autist of all times. I fucking lost it at the part where he was talking about eugenics and his purely scientific conclusion was that we desperately need incest - he remarks that he shared this scientifically rigorous opinion at some London eugenics conference and was booed by the audience, and states how appalled he was with the biased emotional response of the crowd. That fellow is fucking incredible, and totally invincible. There's honestly a lot of these cool British lads - another guy is J F C Fuller, who was also a god among men.

>>21191368
Junger is clearly coping in his "war is great" fantasy so he doesn't have to face the repressed memories of actual war.

>>21191368
this discussion would have no place whatsoever if people realized the very basic thing forgotten by all that some men are meant for war, thus like it, others aren't, thus dislike it; merely another mind poison brought by egalitarian considerations
what's unjust is the indiscriminate carnage where warriors and non are thrown together at the mercy of the machine

>>21191368
Wow you're right, war IS fun! So, when are you flying down to Ukraine? Great opportunity to enjoy some fun times with the bros!

>>21191664
Not OP but I'll answer for him.
> uhhh...can't because...uhh...because this is a-uh-jew war. uh yeah, a JEW WAR! and I hate Jews so I'll just have to sit this one out. But yeah, I would totally be fighting in WWI if I was alive back then, definitely, that's how boys become men :^)

>>21191683
This is objectively the right opinion to have. Is it that shocking that people find more value in fighting for their nation and their people rather than going to some Eastern European backwater to fight for a Jewish puppet government?

>>21191698
Fighting for a Jewish puppet government is the only thing Americans know. They can't imagine or comprehend anything else.

>>21191664
nah war sucks now. can't even get a brojob without a drone blowing your dick off and having it show to the world for all eternity.

>>21191683
Unironically this desu. Seethe.

>>21191683
>>21191698
You guys are such moralizing faggots. If the pay is right and the deployment opportune I'll take it. Otherwise not. War is what it is. You'll feel great doing it until you get hit, and even then you'll be fine most of the time and back at it in short.

>>21191658
All men have it in them. Even the weak. But chances are they won't enjoy any of it because the others are more skilled at it.
All this
>some are meant for war, some arnt
is just a Hindu-esque caste system intellectual cope. Artificial. Unnatural. This attitude is an attempt at domestication/civilization that will lead to degenerate "those that are not meant for war" physiologically and psychologically even faster than it would naturally occur.

>>21191698
>>21191718
There are a million insurgent groups who would love to pull someone with a firstie passport into their ranks. Why not fight for them?

>>21191758
Because I don't care about thirdies

>>21191368
>be Céline
>realize everyone in the military is extremely retarded
>get injured during war
>get discharged
>travel the world
>realize there is worse shit in the world than war, like being a slave for the industry, being with niggers in their homeland or being an insane person in an asylum
>become a doctor and help poor people
>still remember the retards that died during war

>>21191765
...
If you love war and hate the “Jewish puppet government” why would you not help these insurgent groups fight against the “Jewish puppet government”

Do you think thirdies just shoot each other all day? No, they hate firsties even more than other thirdies

war is fucking stupid going to kill other people and die in a ditch for what germany who is germany i dont want to die and neither should anyone else

>>21191756
You're such a larping faggot jesus christ

every soldier should just lay down his arms and refuse to fight then the absurdity can end

>>21191788
>for what germany who is germany
You find out when the people who want Germany gone come knocking.

>>21191817
why should these people exist
its of no benefit to anyone

>>21191819
Taking your resources and women is a benefit to them.

>>21191833
they have plenty of that back home

>>21191834
Maybe you can tell them that while they're burning your village down and dragging your family members off as slaves.

>>21191758
>>21191770

Found the glowie.

>>21191382
Hey anon do you know what his memoirs are called? I can't seem to find anything, either a title or a book.

>>21191698
All wars are Jew ward. WW2 was too and your ancestors fought and died for the Jews. At least you have this place to show your bravery. Yeah, buddy. We know you're a proper Junger.

That one English lad who was in the Spanish Civil war didn't seem to mind. He was drunk the whole time.

>this is the extent of twitter's engagement with Junger

>>21191368
Why do you keep making this thread?

>>21192127
this.
> He's the guy that said War is based, right?

We used to have good Junger threads. Wtf happened?

>>21192667
leftists get bored so they shit them up. cant be helped.

>>21191732
>nah war sucks now. can't even get a brojob without a drone blowing your dick off and having it show to the world for all eternity.
Kek. Is that video legit?
If so, what a way to die.

>>21192673
>Junger
>right or left

>>21192010
I think we are all watching the same fucking videos, its the one with the countryballs and the dude that compares orwell to the other english guy

>>21191382
the original brony

>>21192010
People from that hellish island pull that kind of stuff all the time. You had Gregor MacGregor, a con artist that sold property to people in a country that was completely fake, fooling around during the Venezuelan independence war and ending up buried in the national mausoleum as a hero. Crazy stuff.

>>21191627
OK, Dr. Jennifer Melfi

>>21191658
Based
Deuteronomy 20, 5-8>>21191756

>>21191756
War is cool and epic but let me be picky :(

>>21191756
>is just a Hindu-esque caste system intellectual cope. Artificial. Unnatural. This attitude is an attempt at domestication/civilization that will lead to degenerate "those that are not meant for war" physiologically and psychologically even faster than it would naturally occur.
ywnba kshatriya, shudra dog.

>>21191788
>>21191794
>wahh wahh I'm such a fucking pussy I don't want to ever die WAHH!!!!!
Dilate.

The only people who hate war are the people who didn't do fun shit like rape third world girls and pillage their father's homes.

>>21191627
>cope and seethe
I’d call you a whiny faggot, but you aren’t saying something unreasonable; however; Junger was the rare breed of autist who thrived in war. Read “On Pain” and you’ll see how his entire philosophy is based on how much blood and sacrifice a man can endure.

>>21191683
The president of Ukraine was personally implicated in the Panama papers and had dozens of sources saying his net worth was ~€750 million, then magically after Russia invaded ever media source said lol no CoNsPiRaCy, he only has €2 million. This war is the best thing that’s ever happened to him. Unironically, why am I supposed to care if the 193rd most corrupt country and the 170th are at war?

ITT:

I hate Junger threads so much it's unreal

>>21191368
>hmm really makes you think. who could possibly be a better source for WW1? the veteran hero or the cowardly little artillery helper bitch?
said anon, 31, unemployed, from his parents basement

>>21193978
Neither.

Try diaries of those who died at the time, of no purpose or aesthetic value, on mass. Say all surviving diaries publicly available for an army group for a year of deaths.

>>21191368
>hmm really makes you think. who could possibly be a better source for WW1?
How embarrassing of you.

>>21193221
what? leftists dont care about your distinctions

>>21191368
Well, Bulgakov's descriptions of the war are far from a "honourable adventure", and he served on the front line during WWI, where he was severely wounded few times, then was conscripted multiple times by different sides during the civil war until he got typhus and was left behind by retreating army in Caucasus, so I think we can trust his expertise on that matter.
The thing is that, surprise, people have different experiences, and while some enjoy a character building experience, (you) might find yourself with your legs torn off, bleeding to death in a trench full of shit.

>>21193221
I wasn't talking about the false dichotomy. I'm just saying leftists shit up the thread, that's all. None of them read, they just repeat theory they have heard from someone else.
tl;dr: common "leftist" = "junger bad!"

>>21194813
>None of them read, they just repeat theory they have heard from someone else.
How can you differentiate them from the rest of /lit/ then?

>>21191368
Any other any other books not giving into the narrative that “War is hell!”? I’m sure someone had to write beautifully about adrenaline junkies and people going to war for some other reasons like being lost and who accidentally had to live with being called heroes for that reason except it was a totally self-concerned move.

>>21194893
If I explained it, they would have small changes and I would have to figure out how again.
Let's just say that there are key markers. So, when you know, you know.

>>21191683
Lmao so many coping and seething anons answered

People who go to war usually want to go back to it, so there has to be something about it that is so existentially gratifying as to make other parts of life boring in comparison, but at the same time, if you think 15 year olds being blown to bits is a good thing there really is something wrong with you.

Banning junger-anon was the worst thing that ever happened to this board.

>>21193585
Based and correct

>>21191758
Because I don't want to spend the rest of my life hiding in a cave fucking goats and waiting for a drone strike to kill me.

>>21195082
>>21191683
obvious samefag is obvious

>>21191758
Because I'm not a third-world retard that wants to get blown up by a drone. When actual whites are standing up meaningfully against the global Jew, I will join. For now, we need to get white people to that point and that doesn't happen with White extremists joining Hezbollah

>>21191368
>describes WW1 as a honorable fantastic adventure and views wars as a character building expereince where boys become men
Actually a cope. Like whenever anyone has a terrible experience after the fact you say it was a learning experience & worthwhile.
Understandable impulse but I doubt killing other people is all that fun unless you're a psycho.

>>21191848
Coward can't put his money where his mouth is, how surprising.

>>21195485
>hiding in a cave fucking goats and waiting for a drone strike to kill me
Lol you think WW1 was any better?
Run through field, and get blown into a million pieces by an artillery shell before you can blink.

>>21195541
>Lol you think WW1 was any better?
Obviously since you didn't spend it around inbred neanderthal mudslimes.

I used to find it interesting how your "type" is so interested in divorcing the past from any conception of glory or even just positivity. Now I just find it tedious. If you're not a tranny in body yet you are certainly one in spirit.

>>21191698
>Fighting for their nation and their people rather than going to some Eastern European backwater to fight for a Jewish puppet government?

Ukraine and Russia are both Jewish Puppet governments. Putin is doing as instructed and destabilizing the West so they can manipulate economies so they can enforce better, more stricter controls on the West. When Russia finally collapses, Ukraine will be made in to the gateway to Europe. Allowing all the world to run roughshod through the most beautiful part of the world and the jews will laugh.

If this is was not the cause, what would they be doing different not to implement it?

>>21195553
>how your "type" is so interested in divorcing the past from any conception of glory or even just positivity
What glory? Being blasted into a million pieces in some muddy trench? Oh yes so romantic.
Look nigger if u have a deathwish just go and buy a rifle or a grenade & blow yourself up. That way you can still get the full WW1 experience.

>>21195567
>oyvey the goyim know
>I know, use that to convince them Russia are the problem too anyway!
this post glows

>>21195567
If Putin is a Jewish puppet why are homosexuals and transsexuals' so heavily attacked and censored by his government? Why does he keep making the state give financial incentives for native Russians to have white children to bolster their population without immigration? Why did he stop the destabilization of the middle east by getting involved in Syria? Why is he currently being demonized and attacked by Israel?

>>21191627
Have you ever considered that maybe he's not coping and actually enjoys it? Or are you assuming all humans fit a narrow retarded personality type pushed by academia, or they are "mentally ill".

>>21195637
Stop noticing things, Russia is run by Jews so you should hate them the same way you hate the Jews who run the west obviously, that is by doing nothing and saying nothing. Hearing pro Russia stuff is a really bad look for us you know! It makes people question the narrative, so just fall in with this convenient conspiratorial line and shut up thanks.

>>21195641
Everyone is a homosexual coward like me who aspires for nothing more than to be a paper pushing middleman until the grave.

>>21195637
>>21195643

Because he's dealing with a dumb, retarded population that has never achieved anything worthwhile since they slaughtered their intelligentsia. A broken clock is right twice a day, because he has minor policies that I agree with does not mean that his leadership of a country, or his overall aims match my own. Especially when his goal, and the goal of his nation historically, has been the destruction of my nation.

He has destroyed Europe, Russia has always been the enemy of Europe, it's people have been under Jewish authority since Lenin. The only winning move here is to drive them all back beyond the Urals, Ukraine and Western Russia should be carved out between European nations and made a bulwark against the coming war with the East.

Slavs are the golem of Europe with which the kike will bludgeon Europe to death, like blacks are to America. Especially now that they are waking up to Nationalism, anti-democratic thought and have repeatedly elected Far-Right leaders and rejected progressiveness.

>>21191409
>>21191883
https://anthonymludovici.com/texts.htm

Search Somme.

He also had an autobiography which is quite nice to read.

>>21195637
>If Putin is a Jewish puppet why are homosexuals and transsexuals' so heavily attacked and censored by his government?

The same reason Bethesda puts rainbow flags on some of its international branches and not on others. He is playing to his strengths and his base.

>Why does he keep making the state give financial incentives for native Russians to have white children to bolster their population without immigration?
Because nobody wants to migrate to Russia, they have experienced brain-drain since the 1930s, they have lost more people to immigration than they have to typical population decreases, smaller families and such. The only way to bolster it is to offer worthless financial incentives, this is even more important now that he has overseen the slaughter of many of his own people.

>Why did he stop the destabilization of the middle east by getting involved in Syria?
Same reason the West is doing so in Uklraine, if by your actions you can inflict damage on the enemy for relatively little cost, you do so.

>Why is he currently being demonized and attacked by Israel?
He is not being attacked by Israel, he is being acted in the West by jewish media, in the East he is being celebrated and we are being attacked. This is what happens when kikes control your media.

You must remember, he was an Intelligence man in the Soviet Union, a highly ranked officer in the KGB. In the Organs. This was almost exclusively dominated by Jews. He has been raised by them, he is friends with him, all his closest allies are them. He is not the savior of the white race you wish him to be, he is another nail in the coffin of it.

I suspect you're either a slav, in which case you should be driven from Europe like >>21195669 says, because you're sub-human now.

Or, more likely, you are a disenfranchised European male who has such hate for what his homeland has become that you would side with the enemy rather than admit to yourself that a new world-concept is needed. A one that may scare you and will at first feel wrong. But know that a National-Socialist movement may arise and with it a nation, whichever one you're in, could be reborn as a nation to be proud of.

>>21195637
>If Putin is a Jewish puppet
>If

>>21195723
How many times do you post a day here?

>>21196040
Couple of times a day.

>>21195723
>he was an Intelligence man in the Soviet Union, a highly ranked officer in the KGB
He was a paperpusher called "moth" by his coworkers, whose most adventurous job was carrying luggage of important people.

>>21195487
Not a samefag, retard.
> t. 21191683

>>21196051
You’re folder of Nazi memes and pics is cringe. Go back to /pol/. You don’t read

>>21196034
>wtf how can a political leader be in the same room with Jews exchanging formalities
>he's not a based holcoaust denier like me...THAJT MEANS HES A PUPPET
ok retard

>>21196034
>conveniently ignores every point made that proves him wrong
>thinks anyone is stupid enough to fall for his psyop

>>21191368
Artillery aren't REMFs tho

>>21196053
>He was a paperpusher called "moth" by his coworkers, whose most adventurous job was carrying luggage of important people.

Read other books of the KGB, paper pushers do not rise to be the levels he did in an organization that is both cut-throat, suspicious and sectarian. You do not also manipulate yourself in to being the uncontested leader of state of vicious, ruthless criminals by being a paper-pusher. Open your eyes anon.

>>21196087
>>21196098

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_oligarchs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_oligarch

How many are Jewish I wonder.

>>21196098
>>21196087
>you are all lying you are all lying you are all lying you are all lying you are all lying

>>21195723
>I suspect you're either a slav, in which case you should be driven from Europe like >>21195669 # says, because you're sub-human now.
I generally agree with your post, but why are Ukranians suddenly not east Slavs? The rhetoric about Ukraine is contradictory.

>>21191756
>If the pay is right and the deployment opportune I'll take it.

you’re not a mercenary, you’re a larping amerifat with diabetes

>>21191658
>some men are meant for war
This is such bullshit. MAYBE if the context was primitive warfare or something where if you're physically and skillfully overcoming your opponent. No modern man could possibly enjoy nearly starving to death, having almost no sleep, surrounded by eardrum-shattering noises, living under the constant fear that you could be killed at a moment's notice by some man-made horror circling in the stratosphere. No fucking way anyone is made for that. Want more proof? Look at every single hardass special forces operator who suffers from PTSD.

>>21196201
>I generally agree with your post, but why are Ukranians suddenly not east Slavs? The rhetoric about Ukraine is contradictory.

Why would that distinction matter?

>>21196201
>generally agree with your post, but why are Ukranians suddenly not east Slavs? The rhetoric about Ukraine is contradictory.

Apologies for not making it clear. The differences between Ukrainians and Russians are so insignificant as to be utterly meaningless. Both should be ejected from Europe. Neither can be safely included without risk of kikes usurping. The only winning solution, for Europe, is to drive them out.

>>21196174
>wtf how can a political leader be in the same room with Jews exchanging formalities
>he's not a based holcoaust denier like me...THAJT MEANS HES A PUPPET
ok retard

>>21191368
I, for one, am shocked at how this thread developed

>>21196087
>>21196098
>>21196314

Please see here >>21195723 I suspect you will simply not though as it offers simple refutation of your position.

what would you anons take the from the two books together?

>>21196311
you subscribe to the idea that the Slavs are irredeemable, and not the first victims of Judeo-Bolshevism?

nope, not dying for any jew war. not dying for "clay" or "soil" and not dying for "muh people"
not my problem

>>21196438
They are both and it is a powerful warning to the world as America is about multiculturalism. I don't think you can live under Judeo-Bolshevism as long as they did, butcher all their upper class and not remove a vital part of your Nation. Other Socialist States never had the same brutalized origins as did Russia and Ukraine. They had violence, but it was not nearly as prolonged and systemic as it was there. It is difficult to admit but to include a broken people, incapable of virtue, in to the body of Europe would only spread their poison deeper in to the very heart of civilization.

Jünger would be turning in his grave. Awful thread.

>>21191683
Kek based

>>21193527
KYS if you are so unafraid of death. But you will reply to this instead, proving you are alive, and a pussy.

>>21196451
Based woman.
>>21197416
What a pathetic little man, projecting his drive for death onto an acolyte of the divine eros like me. People like me don't even consider "suicide" as an option worth considering, unlike you who needs an excuse to not blow your brains out every single day outside of an irrational fear of the inevitable. No wonder you spend every day posting here whining about stupid shit and stroking your cock, all you atheists are the same.

>dying for israel
No thanks.

>>21195669
Endless war with the Mongolian hordes! People are beating that old drum again...

>>21191368
It's almost as if people can have different experiences when doing the same thing.

I loved deployments. So did everyone else in my platoon. I lived for that shit. Only got out when the war ended.

>>21191368
Yeah, I love going to war, seeing all my best pals violently killed and sometimes tortured. Nothing like the invigorating smells of decaying human flesh to start the day! Shut the fuck up. War is bad. Some people get addicted to the adrenaline rush and the heightened senses, the meaning it seems to give their lives, but you're an idiot if you think a momentary high worth all that destruction.

>>21198037
Honest anecdote
>>21198051
Dishonest moralizing

>>21198055
What's dishonest about what I said? Have you ever been to war? It cripples and kills far more people than it ennobles.

It's easy to put the lie to all this warrior machismo. Ask them if they'd die for their country, they all say "yes, gladly", then ask them if they'd get their cock shot off for their country, suddenly they're not so eager.

>>21194910
Ernst von Salomon "Outlaws" is somewhat in that vein, though he also goes into events other than war later (namely assassinating a jewish politician and spending a decade in prison).

>>21191698
>>21191683
Azov are european heroes. Hope your russian untermensch get what is coming to you.

>>21198062

As it should.

>>21196204
No, I live in a country occupied by Amerifats, and I know that there are a lot worse things than being a military or private hire for the western economic zone.

>>21193511
Yes I'm picky. Its stupid not to be.

>>21191792
Because I have enough income now to where military service/private security is no longer worth it but everyone has to start somewhere.

>>21191698
Based. We shepard our strength for the Greater war, a war for existence itself, for the final fate of the West.

Everyone knows the Boog is coming. Only elite beta cucks nogunz deny it. When it comes the righteous will push back the tide of darkness from the many. The first horns have already begun to peel loud, the call to battle. The vanguard has already joined their formation.

Seethe leftists. We were born for an hour such as this, we are the storm.

>>21198570
The storm is getting 15 years on prison for kicking over some chairs?

>>21198572
>Patriots given decades in prison for chairs knocked over when FBI opens doors for crowd of well behaved protestors.
>Cities laid waste, thousands dead in nationwide Antifa and BLM shock troop attack. The arrested free in hours.
>This means true war isn't coming.
Dumbass.

>>21198577
> thousands dead in nationwide Antifa and BLM shock troop attack
Where, in your fantasy?
Also, giga kek at your pic. How many brave patriots did Trump pardon again?

>>21191368
Best translation? Reading Mein Kampf at the moment since a while ago someone posted exercpts from 'The Young Hitler I Knew' and for the first time saw a person in place of a monster.

>>21191683
Yes. Give me an antisemitic war and I'll give my life (if I didn't have type 1. Sadly, the only anti-hew wars are pro-muslim and therefore still semitic and also not fir preserving the white race. Also the Middle East and Africa should just be ignored and left to destroy themselves

>>21193835
I want to get the training because it's the only legal way to get such an experience in my cucked country but then defect and be an insurgent. How do I go about this?

>>21195099
It connects you on the deepest level of hunanity. Your animal bature of fight or die. You make lifelong bonds that run deep fast and feel their losses just as quickly. You are given a free pass to do things considered mirally reoregensible by the masses and to understand for yourself. To be in war is basically like accelerating the human experience. War is one man's Valhalla and another man's Hel.

>>21198683
First, loose 15 points of bmi

>>21195567
Too bright, my eyes!

>>21198704
And after that? Seriously, wtf are you meant to do when you can't privately own any means of rebellion?

>>21191368
None of them and both are valid you stupid motherfucker. Human beings are different and react differently to different experiences. Junger writes about laughing maniacally from how fucking scared he was during the battle of the Somme in that book - it's not exactly the experience of a neutral, reliable source everyone can fit into.

Alright, so who here is actually current or former combat arms in a military?

>>21195641
Yeah some males like to be pissed on and getting gangbanged by well hung niggers but it does not mean their action are worth endorsing and every male should behave like that. Pro-war chuds are retarded

>>21191368
imagine seeing war as "fantastical" OP never even seen the light of day.

>>21191368
If you read a good breadth of actual personal war journals and diaries, it seems like most actual soldeirs had a multifasceted view of war and didnt have some sort of autistic narrow thesis about it. they tended to both appreciate and dislike various elements of it. neither denying its exhilaration and character building, nor denying its horrors and uncomfortableness. a thing of extremes.

>>21191368
retard, hope your legs get blown off in a war and your wife fucks your brother while you're deployed

>>21195626
>>21198707
>implying you are not JIDF

>>21198596
This is the same cuck who will seethe when Trump pardons the January Patriots the day he reclaims the stolen office.

Trump won. Fuck your feelings lib.

>>21199645
Far-Right here, I hope Trump dies before he attempts another run.

>>21199913
Yeah all Trump is going to do is give sneedocrats something to run on, orange hitler is back. But I don't want DeSneedis either. He'll give in to neocons like they all do. Give me the Kingfisher, give me Father Coughlin, give me something with substance.

>>21191368
>Chuds: Junger is heckin' based. Cant wait for the collapse to make use of the million dollars in guns and ammo I shoved up my asshole.
>Reasoned Individuals: Why would anyone want to kill another individual for some idealistic shit sitting in his office getting blow jobs and snorting cocaine?
Anyone who prefers Junger is low iq because 1) They probably spend way too much time on /pol/, and 2) Their experience with war is probably limited to conflicts with their mothers over oven-ready tendies or pizza for dinner.

>>21199924
I want anger in my elected official, i want hate for what threatens us and to see it attacked and removed from society. No political message will stop what we are seeing, when they get in to power next they will undo any damage inflicted. Only violence can change the course we are on. None of the people on political schene are in our favor. Trump may as well be the first Jewish president and DeDantis is simply business as usual.

>>21191382
To be fair, I haven't been to a war and losing dogs makes me more sad than people dying in most cases.

>>21199944
>I have never been in a physical competition ever let alone won one.

>>21199971

>>21199348
you have creepy fetishes

you aren't attractive to women for this reason

i don't even understand what the right wing demands are in america. more schadenfreude? what a shit platform

>>21200328
There is the normal Right-Wing which is simply christian libertarians that want less rules except for their rules like Peterson, Shapiro, etc. Then we have the Hard/Far/Alt- right that wants some form of Fascism or National-Socialism, ethno-nationalism/militarism and restriction of civil liberties in order to reverse the shitshow we are in now.

I am in the second group.

>>21195567

>>21200374
Read the sentence aloud to yourself, anon.

>>21200371
>Yes, I'm a nazi
>posts ridiculously emo pics
kek
>>21200374
meds

>>21200517
>>posts ridiculously emo pics
Young, honest love is emo? Your world-view has damaged you beyond repair.

>>21200535
>Your world-view has damaged you beyond repair.
Young, honest love is not a picture you post on 4 chan, with a Schwarzesonne, nonetheless.
Go out and experience it.

>>21200552
Why not? Why does the Black Sun preclude love?

>>21200641
Love is the opposite of politics.
Hug a woman, and you'll see that in that moment you have zero (0) interests in the future of humanity, the planet, or the universe.

>>21200371
>Then we have the Hard/Far/Alt- right that wants some form of Fascism or National-Socialism, ethno-nationalism/militarism and restriction of civil liberties in order to reverse the shitshow we are in now.
>I am in the second group.
How does someone become this retarded?

>>21191368
Who do you think is a "better" source for what high school is like, the football ace jock, or the nerdy loner that watches anime during class? Who do you think would have a more positive outlook?

>>21201786
Do you miss your penis?

>>21196292
>Want more proof? Look at every single hardass special forces operator who suffers from PTSD.
Also look at everyone who doesn't got mentally ill for being too weak for the job, I'm pretty sure all this "war is hell!" narratives comes from people raised in conditions too different from warfare having mental breakdowns.

Proper training can fix this.

>>21198062
>What's dishonest about what I said?
To begin with, it's clear you never went to war.

Only civilians trying to preach pacifism say crap like this.

>>21201041
Only for the first times you do it, then it becomes routine.

>>21200002
That actually made me tear up. There is something so heartbreaking about an animal's grief at the loss of its loved one. They know, and I think they know better than we do, so that even their sadness is deeper.

>>21191889
Yea they did die for Jews. If I was alive during the 1940s I would also not fight in the war. I would never consider it honorable to die in a war that is on another continent for the interests of rich Jews. This is a pretty consistent position to take.

>>21200374
>LE COMMUNISTS ARE BAD!
retard

Vvvvgh I'm so le warrior poet for touring the sandbox and disliking some people

>>21200374
doesnt work on us, filthy jew.

>>21202319
That's why they had the draft, economic crisis, inflation, and mass migration. To force as many young men in the army as possible.

>>21198667
Nothing stops you from purchasing an assault rifle and walking into a nearby synagogue like that Christchurch dude. But you won't do shit because making grand declarations anonymously online is the extent of your will. And when faced with that fact you already have readymade copes
>b-but its not Real War™
>b-but you're probably glowie
For the record I'm not white and I don't give a fuck about you. I simply find your kind amusing, you're the very avatar of white man's weakness, all bark and no bite, and even your bark is just simpering whining. A manchild eternally stuck in his adolescent fantasies.

War is unironically le bad, but not for the reasons that most people think.

Worst junger thread ever.

I love book about war and pacifism.

Im Westen nichts Neues 1928 (Erich Maria Remarque)
Reunion 1971 (Fred Uhlman), No Coward Soul and No resurrection please 1985 (the sequel to the story)
Le Silence de la mer 1942 (Vercors) that I read presently, it's so poetic and beautiful.

>>21203659
random violence is exactly the opposite of a war you undermined ethnic retard
But I don't have anything to prove, I'm NTA and Serbian

>>21203872
I need boyfriend with authoritarian ideas.

There's a war going on right now and people ITT are talking about the romance of war instead of going off to actually experience one. This war could just be the start of a new global war that takes millions of lives.

You gotta beware people who talk about war as being a great thing.

>>21203929
There's a war going on right now and people ITT are talking about pacifism instead of trying to do anything to halt it. This war could just be the start of a new global war that takes millions of lives.

Isn't it amazing how people who have preached pacifism for decades are the first one to support a war, as long they are propagandized with enough force?

>>21191368
I only now that many modern soldiers are fools being used by the rich elite who would never send their sons to fight. There hasn't been a war that mattered in burgerland since WW2 when the japs hit pearl harbor.

>>21191683
> uhhh...can't because...uhh...because this is a-uh-jew war. uh yeah, a JEW WAR! and I hate Jews so I'll just have to sit this one out. But yeah, I would totally be fighting in WWI if I was alive back then, definitely, that's how boys become men :^)

>>21203912
haha hey

>>21203974
>Isn't it amazing how people who have preached pacifism for decades are the first one to support a war, as long they are propagandized with enough force?
If your argument against pacifism is that people are being pacifist enough, it's not a good argument against pacifism, is it?

Militaries are made up up 70 % literal drooling retards and 99 % rapefags in denial. There's not a single military man in history who hasn't sucked and fucked thousands of times. Prison is nonstop assrape even though prisoners are constantly separated, how the fuck do people think anyone in the military manages to be straight under those conditions?

>>21204197
>If your argument against pacifism is that people are being pacifist enough, it's not a good argument against pacifism, is it?
Failing to understand what I said doesn't make you any less wrong. Pacifists are in almost all cases hypocrites who give up their beliefs at the moment a war begins, becoming the worst type of warmonger. Just look at the war in Ukraine, all the "war is hell, it's bad" turned out to be the greatest support of sending more weapons to make the conflict last longer.

If war was so bad, opposition to it would come mostly from people who had been at war, instead of journalists and academics trying to virtue preach their views.

>Militaries are made up up 70 % literal drooling retards and 99 % rapefags in denial.
Depend a lot on the country, 1st world militaries tend to be made of the scum of society, lacking almost all forms of discipline and value. While in many countries, the military are literally the best people you can find in society.

>>21202236
>Only civilians trying to preach pacifism say crap like this.
I've read accounts from Italian mission to Russia during WWII and it said stuff like this
NTA

>>21203872
>Le Silence de la mer 1942 (Vercors) that I read presently, it's so poetic and beautiful.
Nice one, but it doesn't really show much war scenes or mentions pacifism, imo.

>>21204216
>Failing to understand what I said doesn't make you any less wrong. Pacifists are in almost all cases hypocrites who give up their beliefs at the moment a war begins, becoming the worst type of warmonger. Just look at the war in Ukraine, all the "war is hell, it's bad" turned out to be the greatest support of sending more weapons to make the conflict last longer.
Most of the famous pacifist leftists, like Chomsky and Varoufakis and so on are opposed to the war continuing. Zizek was never a pacifist. All the "slava ukraini" journos fuckscum were never pacifist either and never pretended to be. They're all of them pro Iraq War and pro "le bunch da nabsis :DDD".

Many veterans so oppose war, and those that don't is obviously because they're entire life and all their friends and hobbies are completely tied up in the military. Plus since war is uneven it means many won't see the bad sides. Hanging out with your bros and dronestriking a few brown kids here and there is pretty fun for most military people, certainly beats being homeless. Doesn't mean what they're doing is good.
> While in many countries, the military are literally the best people you can find in society.
Which countries? Most third world militaries are just junta trying to take control as much as possible and looking for vengeance on some neighbour tribe who wronged them 2 years ago. There's a reason when whenever you meet Africans or other third world people they'll always be much nicer when they realize you're not the government, because government means they send the rapesquad to steal and burn since there's no oversight.

>>21204216
>If war was so bad, opposition to it would come mostly from people who had been at war, instead of journalists and academics trying to virtue preach their views.
What?
Journalists are 100% pro war right now

>>21204306
>I've read accounts from Italian mission to Russia during WWII and it said stuff like this
I've read and most are quite favorable. To be fair, it's pretty hard to find any pacifist writings coming from soldiers.

>>21204308
>Most of the famous pacifist leftists, like Chomsky and Varoufakis and so on are opposed to the war continuing.
>Most
Do you mean to say "almost none"? Because pretty much all the pacifist left went full warmonger.

>Many veterans so oppose war,
>Many
Do you mean to say "almost no"? And please, don't pretend the vast majority of veterans who support the war in muttstan are "secretly against it so I can be right".

>Which countries? Most third world militaries are just junta trying to take control as much as possible and looking for vengeance on some neighbour tribe who wronged them 2 years ago.
Why do Americans feel the need to "let me teach about your country"? Have you ever left you country?

>>21204308
>Ok, let's pretend most of the pacifist left has not turned in warmongers because some of it didn't.
>Also let's pretend veterans are against the war.... their support is fake beause of reasons.
>Also, militaries from countries outside first world are a charicature of what liberals in the US say....
If pacifism was a good position, instead of a cheap way to virtue signal, there'd be no need to defend it with so many games of pretend and lies.

what was even the point of the first world war

>>21204328
>Because pretty much all the pacifist left went full warmonger.
That's just not true, unless you literally count he democratic party as "The Left".
> And please, don't pretend the vast majority of veterans who support the war in muttstan are "secretly against it so I can be right".
I didn't say they were secretly against it, I said why they were for it. They're on the nice end of the gun and all their life is military, plus average IQ is like 75, so why would they opposite it.
> Why do Americans feel the need to "let me teach about your country"? Have you ever left you country?
Not a yank, but it's pretty obvious you don't trust third world governments. Ask any woman raped in a third world country if she'd go to the police, even they know this stuff. I just wonder what third world country as honorable military?

>>21204346
To crush the Germanic civilization and ensure Anglo ruling elites kept power.

>>21204336
I don't have to, it's pretty obviously the morally correct position, especially if you include self defence in pacifism (which I do), it's so easy it's basically just a truism. Just because retards easily fall to propaganda doesn't mean the position is wrong.

I recommend this man, Kurt Eggers. He wrote a great deal on the subject.

>>21204349
>That's just not true, unless you literally count he democratic party as "The Left".
It's true as long we don't ignore everyone who become a warmonger on purpose.

It may annoy you, but most pacifists in the US and Europe became warmongers the moment this war begun.

>>21204349
>They're on the nice end of the gun and all their life is military, plus average IQ is like 75, so why would they opposite it.
Calling soldiers dumb, and saying "Actually, they think the opposite of what they show so I can be right" are pretty bad copes.

Most soldiers are in favor of wars their nations are fighting.

>Ask any woman raped in a third world country if she'd go to the police, even they know this stuff.
I live in a 3rd world country, and there are few things more disgusting than hypocrites like you lying trying to tell "how things actually are" so you can better virtue signal.


If pacifism requires one to invent and lie so much, then it's a very flawed idea.

>>21204346
If you really pare it down, it was basically just a handful of elites in Austria-Hungary and Germany who really wanted war. Seems utterly insane that a small group of old men could cause what followed.

>>21204365
>It's obvious right... so like... it's right... don't question it.
I guess this kind of cope is how you can defent such a hypocritical idea.

Pacifism is just a feel-good way of people who never went to war to virtue-signal, and is discarded as soon as a better way to virtue signal appears.

>>21204365
>It's the moraly correct position.
It's a common way to virtue signal, and as virtue signaling methods, it's shallow and it's discarded the monent a better way to signal appears.

Wars exists, and there's nothing moral to acting like you're better for bitching about it.

>>21204376
You don't even answer to my arguments, and if you geniunely think third world militaries are honorable, just give an example bro, because it's so obvious you're full of shit. Can you even name one that didn't devolve into a junta?

>>21204381
O ye of little faith

>>21204399
>Pacifism is just a feel-good way of people who never went to war to virtue-signal, and is discarded as soon as a better way to virtue signal appears.
>>21204381
It's a common way to virtue signal, and as virtue signaling methods, it's shallow and it's discarded the monent a better way to signal appears.

Hey recrooters, if you wanna keep recrooting maybe coordinate a little better so you don't copy the same script

>>21204403
>If you don't think the 3rd world is as I, who never visited it, say it is then you're not answering my argument and I win.
Anon, you really only care about feeling you're right, don't you?

There are more than 100 3rd world nations, each of them with their own ways, some new and some with many millennia of history, but you really need to insist "all are juntas" because it's the only way your pacifist fantasies can hold up.

>>21204410
They are not wrong, tho.

With very rare exception, pacifism is what civilians (usually wealthy liberals in the 1st world) repeat without thinking much to feel they are morally better.

Like using paper straws.

Enlisted vs Officer experience.

>>21191382
Remarque corroborates that the sound of horses dying is fucking atrocious to hear.

>>21204443
I'd say it's Intellectual vs Common Joe experience.

Most soldiers I served with tend to agree more with Junger, even local conscripts, while the few guys who got a humanities degree at college tends to say war is exactly like Remarques described.

>>21204414
>but you really need to insist "all are juntas" because it's the only way your pacifist fantasies can hold up
Not all of them, some of them are also failed states, and many barely have real militaries. Why are you so afraid to specify what country you're talking about? I hope it's not Indonesia...

>>21204422
Still the correct position, and still no arguments, mr recrooter.

>>21204463
>Why are you so afraid to specify what country you're talking about? I hope it's not Indonesia...
Have you ever visited any 3rd world country? Or you just insist on the "countries are like this, I'm a liberal, I know"?

>>21204463
>Still the correct position, and still no arguments, mr recrooter.
It's "the correct position" the same way using paper straws is "the correct position", a position that doesn't have to be argued, as long as it makes you feel you're morally better and that's all that counts.

Now, can you give me any reason why pretending people's rightful reasons to fight are "irrelevant" is moral beyond "it makes me feel I'm better than them"?

>>21204474
Do you like not answering questions by posing different questions?

Also yes I've been to various SEA countries, also Greece

>>21204483
Pacifism doesn't preclude self defence. Your move, why should wars of aggression be defended?

>>21204484
>Why you don't answer my retoric questions the way I want? Like, this is how I'm supposed to win this argument.
Guy, you are saying an EU nation is 3rd world? I mean, I know pacifism is a feel good position only kept by "feel-good" liberals, but you're just too ignorant.

Try re-writing your post, and this time don't try to say EU nations are 3rd world.

>>21204312
>To be fair, it's pretty hard to find any pacifist writings coming from soldiers.
If you say so

>>21204459
Would the average soldier, or you for that matter, be fine with dying for what they're actually being sent to fight over? There is so much talk of, at least in the US, soldiers "defending our freedoms" when they are deployed in Afghanistan or Iraq or Somalia or whatever, instead of the reality that they are mainly sent to enforce the boring and gay realpolitik purposes of the structures of power. I guess what I'm asking is, do you fight more for your brothers in arms and the experience of war itself, or do you fight for "your country" and the goals of its current leaders? I got the impression from Storm of Steel that Junger was fighting more for his brothers and the thrill and trial of war than he was for the nation-state of Germany. I think that was true for a lot of the original fascists too, they found that war and struggle had very little to do with the goals of the state that sent them to do its dirty work in WWI, so they decided to remake the state to reflect the "glory" and struggle of an endless war.

>>21204492
Because, outside the totalitarian dreams of liberals like you, people don't always agree, and when people don't agree wars sometimes breaks out.

Why do you talk as if wars only exist because some "evil and morality inferior to you" people decided to do it because they are "evil"? To be honest, most wars in the past decades begun because people didn't wanted to be forced to behave like liberals such as yourself say they should behave.

This is why hypocrites like you annoy me, you purposefully ignore people in different places many think different just so you can slightly boast your ego.

>>21204497
> Third worlder doesn't understand banter
Didn't realize this was possible. Are you ever going to answer which third world country has a nice military? Are you even going to mention the continent?

>>21204511
>Would the average soldier, or you for that matter, be fine with dying for what they're actually being sent to fight over?
Depend on what military we are talking, soldiers I've met from 1st world countries (mostly the US and the UK) seems to be there for their pay checks and would not fight, much less die, for anything.

Most soldiers I've met from Arab countries would probably die for what they are fighting for, the same goes for militiamen.

I guess I cannot answer your question unless you divide "soldiers" into many different roles in different institutions.

>>21204515
>Ok, like, I said all 3rd world militaries are juntas... but you caught this lie.... now it's time for "all third world miliatries sucks".
I'd say most 3rd world militaries have better trained soldiers than most 1st world militaries, at least on my experience.

This can be seen on how said soldiers react to combat conditions and how well they fight.

>>21204512
>To be honest, most wars in the past decades begun because people didn't wanted to be forced to behave like liberals such as yourself say they should behave.
Yup, most wars are because of liberalism, very true.

Are you capable of holding the thought that even though wars are natural they should still be resisted? Like mob justice, rape, pedophilia, murder in passion and genocide etc. all of those are completely natural but still bad and should be resisted.

I also don't know why you're equating pacifism with liberal countries imposing foreign policy. US has never been pacifistic and has always been warmongering. People, even when they want to, shouldn't kill each other. This is so obviously true you're twisting yourself into oblivion just so you can maintain le ebin 4chin contrarianism.

>>21204531
>I'd say most 3rd world militaries have better trained soldiers than most 1st world militaries, at least on my experience.
"Good at fighting" and "Moral" are not synonymous. But even so what are you basing this on? The Iraqi army was a trashfire, Afghan even more so. Arabs in general tend to get BTFO'd by Israel (aside from Egypt that one time). Whenever a third world army goes up against a first world army, it's usually just a massacre. Guerilla groups tend to be a different matter, but those aren't militaries.

Even so, this doesn't make them moral, which is what you claimed.

>>21204511
>I guess what I'm asking is, do you fight more for your brothers in arms and the experience of war itself, or do you fight for "your country" and the goals of its current leaders?
But I got what you're saying, I guess you do it mostly for yourself and people near you, but there's always a vague dedication to the broader goals of the war.

And to be fair, war conditions are considerably less stressful than office work, there is a reason why most soldiers develop PTSD after then go back to civilian life.

>>21204540
Because, with very rare exceptions, pacifism is a variation of the "paper straw" position people hold to virtue-signal and feel better about themselves, while ignoring why wars are usually fought.

War is a quite harsh experience, it's not fought unless both sides have strong enough believe on what they are fighting for.

>>21204553
>"Good at fighting" and "Moral" are not synonymous.
No they are not, that's why I listed them separately... seems it was not enough to make it clear enough for you.

>But even so what are you basing this on? The Iraqi army was a trashfire, Afghan even more so.
How can I explain someone who was not on the ground, and drunk the American military propaganda kool-aid what happened there? Or at least what I saw there?

Let's begin with the basics, in Afghan and post invasion Iraq, American and other NATO forces have been incredibly ineffective as they avoided fighting because casualties look bad at home, virtually all the fight was done by locals. The ANA lost the Taliban, and yet it was considerably more capable than the US military in Afghanistan.

>>21204528
>I guess I cannot answer your question unless you divide "soldiers" into many different roles in different institutions.
Fair enough, I know it's a very broad grouping.
>Most soldiers I've met from Arab countries would probably die for what they are fighting for, the same goes for militiamen.
That makes perfect sense to me, since they're much more likely to be strong believers in their ideology. And that seems to be part of the disconnect between militias and "professional soldiers" like you would see in the US and UK and many western nations. The militiaman sees his brothers-in-arms and the state as one and the same, whereas I think the professional soldier sees his brothers-in-arms and the state that he's fighting for as two separate things. Like you said, a lot of them are just in it for the pay check. It helps if you're on the backfoot and you're fighting off an invader, I'm sure. When was the last time any western country has had to do that lol? I get the feeling that if you said to a lot of first world professional soldiers: "here, you can form a new nation-state just with your fellow soldiers and you can decide its founding principles" they would take it up in a heart-beat. Am I making sense?

>>21204555
>War is a quite harsh experience, it's not fought unless both sides have strong enough believe on what they are fighting for.
War is often fought for all kinds of retarded reasons. Sometimes the levels of retardation get so complex that no one understands why it was done in the first place.

Some conflicts are almost inevitable, true, are you saying it's better or worse if they devolve in people slaughtering eachother? You can continue to whine about "muh paper straws" if you want, but are you even proposing an alternative? "wars just happen bro" isn't a moral standpoint, it's the opposite of one. If you're arguing people should never ever take a moral standpoint on war, fair enough, but then it's difficult to see why people should ever take a moral standpoint on anything.

>>21204567
What you say makes sense.

I guess that's in part because most Western militaries have become "civilian-like" in the sense what a soldier do become closer to what office workers do, and what those nations fight for become too disconnected from what the common Joe cares about.

When I was deployed, I knew I was mostly suppressing some really militias and that was enough for me because military life is in itself enjoyable, as long it has not been "turned in an office with all the issues of office work"

>>21204566
Please don't tell me you're actually an Afghan refugee hiding out in Europe dude...please...

Obviously the Americans are going to want to fight as little as possible when they don't even know why they're there in the first place. Disregarding that it didn't even take a week for the entire military to fall after the US left, it was just a complete shitshow. The Afghan military was too preoccupied with getting high and boyfucking.

I actually can't believe it, I ask you for an example of a moral military, and you give me Afghanistan, the literal posterchild for a ineffective and degenerate trashheaps third world milities usually turn out to be.

>>21204555
>it's not fought unless both sides have strong enough believe on what they are fighting for.
I have to totally disagree with this. Were you the anon that said soldiers you've met from 1st world countries just seem to be there for pay checks and wouldn't fight for anything? I think that blows the theory that both sides have to have strong belief in what they fight for out of the water.

>>21204568
>War is often fought for all kinds of retarded reasons.
War is often fought for reasons you think retarded, but other people care enough to die for.... this typical liberal "I know all that is right and good, everyone doesn't know" mentality prevents you from understanding this.

Western invading forces are indeed harmful and fight for motives I find petty, like democracy, human rights or to get paid, but I know that for them, those reasons are worth fighting and dying for.

Try to be less self-righteous and realize different people have diffent values than you.

>A country with a strong national character and ethnic pride
Vs
>a atomized, multicultural melting pit that hate the only demographic that can fight and organize

>>21204583
>Please don't tell me you're actually an Afghan refugee hiding out in Europe dude...please...
Nah, I was just deployed there as part of the occupying force... someone has to do the fight after all, kek.

>I actually can't believe it, I ask you for an example of a moral military, and you give me Afghanistan, the literal posterchild for a ineffective and degenerate trashheaps third world milities usually turn out to be.
The situation of the ANA is far more complicated than a liberal that reduces everything to "I know better, everyone else is dumb" like you can possibly imagine.

Wars are always extremely complex, even when you're there in the ground it's hard to understand why people are fighting... imagine for someone who doesn't want to know and is far?

>>21204586
>Were you the anon that said soldiers you've met from 1st world countries just seem to be there for pay checks and wouldn't fight for anything?
They fight for their paychecks, I know for us this sound as extremely petty, but you need to realize in Western societies the need to have more money is enough to drive people to fight and die (despite not to a great degree).

Mercenaries are quite common because "wealthy" and "I enjoy fighting" are deep enough reasons for someone people to be willing to fight.

>>21204587
I know people have different values, which is why they shouldn't kill eachother for them. Your worldview is a literal "the strongest survives". Again, fair enough if you don't want to take a moral standpoint, but it isn't actually a standpoint, you just think morality is pointless. I know people disagree with me, I just don't think they should kill me or I should kill them.

>>21204531
>I'd say most 3rd world militaries have better trained soldiers than most 1st world militaries, at least on my experience

In my experience this is not the case. With most, if not all, non-european military (or with majority European decendants, Australia and America) are unable to conduct drill in time. The idea that they could perform anywhere close to coherent is doubtful. We thought Russia would be able to perform at least at a level close to our own but this has revealed to be false. China too may be like this. This js not counting all the graft, corruption and rape that occurs in non-European militaries.

>>21204610
It'd indeed be great if people didn't kill each other, but in the world we live, wars unfortunately happens. It's as unavoidable as aging.

There's nothing wrong with admitting people not killing each other would be better, but ignoring that wars do exist because "it's immoral", it just a form of denial. It'd be more moral instead to avoid avoidable wars AND to ensure wars are fought with a degree of civility... and these goals cannot be archived while one is stuck in "war is wrong, war is wrong, war is wrong".

>>21204597
You can talk about "wah you think you know everything" but you haven't actually corrected me on anything other than "it's complicated bro, it's actually a supercomplex reason why the Northern Alliance instantly fled as soon as the Americans stopped backing them up".

Much of history is the powerful shitting on the weak, instead of sayng they shouldn'y do that by killing thousands of people, your opposition is "nuh uh, the weak are actually much better at fighting, you just don't know shit bro so typical librul oh my gawd!"

Are you actually commited to the Northern Alliance being one of the most moral militaries in the world, or do you feel like retracting that statement?

>>21204587
I'm not that anon, but very often those Western invading forces are not there to fight for "democracy or human rights" at all. That is usually propaganda that is used to justify their invasion though. Even if some of the soldiers believe that's what they're there for, the people at the top of the chain of command have entirely different ideas about what those soldiers are there for.

>>21204624
Strange, for all I've seen, 1st world militaries do indeed conducts some drills, but they are too soft and too uncommon, soldier's life is too civilian-like.

Those guys are incredibly proud of doing 3 long marches a year, and pretending this is more than everyone else does, while many armies do that 2 times a month.

Are you sure you have ever got in contact with a non-Western military?

>>21204635
I think you missed the point, how about you ask me some non-retoric questions? If possible one at the time, instead of ten to overwhelm and "win".

>>21204609
They fight for their paychecks, I know for us this sound as extremely petty, but you need to realize in Western societies the need to have more money is enough to drive people to fight and die (despite not to a great degree).

Mercenaries are quite common because "wealthy" and "I enjoy fighting" are deep enough reasons for someone people to be willing to fight
Right, so they're not fighting for "their country" or for "freedom" or "democracy", they're fighting for money and for the love of war.

>>21204627
So you're saying preventing war is literally impossible, so therefor arguing morality is pointless? What a shit argument, have you heard of principles?

Also wars might be unavoidable completely, but Westerns Europe and Latin America has a lot less war than they've had historically, but I suppose that doesn't matter since it's all "muh inevitability" anyway?

>>21204636
>I'm not that anon, but very often those Western invading forces are not there to fight for "democracy or human rights" at all.
No, yet many of their soldiers seem to believe this, and this thread is about the soldier's experience, even if many of the Western troops know they are fighting for profit of their rulers and stay there for the pay check.

What I'm saying is that this "war is hell" doesn't really match what happen in war, but instead reflects what some intellectuals are thinks about war.

>>21204624
America rolled over Iraq in weeks with a shock & awe doctrine while Russia has just recently went gloves-off and started blowing up Ukrainian power infrastructure. The main disparity between the west and the east is that the west leverages massive brutality for purely economic reasons while the east can't even be so vicious in an existential war against fake nations and supposed subhumans. Really, westerners are deranged monsters who should rightfully be put down. Thankfully they always lose in the end kek
>drills
All of Europe drills with fake wooden props, which is not even something that can be said of Iran
>your pic related
holy /pol/tard, go back.

>>21204644
Fine. Is the Northern Alliance the example you're committed to of third world armies being the moral pillar of a country and better at fighting than first world armies?

>>21204648
>Right, so they're not fighting for "their country" or for "freedom" or "democracy"
No, they are not. But they are fighting for reasons that are meaningful enough for them.

You'd be surprised of how many soldiers, specially in irregular forces, fight because they simply enjoy war. And to be fair, war is quite enjoyable, despite having a LOT of bad sides.

>>21191368
>ifunny.co
The current "le epic based warrior!" reception of Junger by coddled teenagers who would have been executed for committing self-mutilation is a fate I wouldn't wish on even my least favorite author.

>>21204650
>Also wars might be unavoidable completely, but Westerns Europe and Latin America has a lot less war than they've had historically, but I suppose that doesn't matter since it's all "muh inevitability" anyway?
What are you talking about? Western Europe is indeed more peaceful since the US forced everyone to follow it's decisions and ways. But I still think that some degree of war is more justifiable than American liberal ideology imposed by force.

>>21204660
The Northern Alliance was a mess composed of many different forces, made of locals and people from many different countries fighting for many reasons.

Some of it were indeed examples of morality, while others were as vile as it gets. Western forces tending to the latter.

>>21204667
>Western Europe is indeed more peaceful since the US forced everyone to follow it's decisions and ways.
That's the EU, not the US. The only Western European country following the US around is UK, and even they didn't go into Vietnam. Do I need to remind you what the French and Germans said about the Iraq war? Palme in the '70s compared the US to the nazis and sent aid to North Vietnam.

But since you're anti-pacifism, surely you must think the American religious wars of Aggression (Bush justified Iraq by saying God told him to do it) are morally justifiable? Since it's impossible to actually be against the Iraq war since it's all inevitable anyway?

>>21204654
>What I'm saying is that this "war is hell" doesn't really match what happen in war, but instead reflects what some intellectuals are thinks about war.
For the record, I agree with this, and I am not one of those people. I think that yes, sometimes conflict is not only necessary but actually brings about necessary renewal, comradery, and gives meaning to some. I have never been to war, I have never been a soldier, so truly I do not know what it's like, but I do believe the fact that there is such a disconnect between the people who make the wars happen and their reason to make those wars happen vs. the soldiers on the ground fighting the wars and their reason for fighting the wars is a huge problem and will continue to destroy our society on multiple fronts. I would much rather fight a war against the bloated cockroaches who invent reasons to go to war and justify it with propaganda than some sheep herder in some -stan who wants nothing more than to see the foreigners gone from his home.

>>21204684
>Only the UK follows the US
Anon, the US still has an occupation garrison in German and pretty much all EU countries.

>>21204670
Right, I asked you about moral militaries, first you said ANA but now retracted that because they were a mess, I agree.

Now can you name a single moral third world military? Or are you retracting that too along with your entire point?

>>21204689
And yet they can't get them to join their wars. Looks like the situation is more complicated than "they follow command". In fact EU seems to be proving that it is in fact possible to avoid joining der ewige kriegsmachine

>>21204694
>Right, I asked you about moral militaries, first you said ANA but now retracted that because they were a mess, I agree.
I didn't say the ANA was moral, I said it fought considerably better than NATO forces.

>Now can you name a single moral third world military?
I can name every single national army that exist to protect the countries from the constant invasions by the US. There's great morality in soldiers who stand against invaders who want to destroy their ways of living.

>>21204699
German (and other EU nations, but using German as an example) fought in most wars the US took part in the last decades, and sent lots of resources to the few it didn't take part.

>>21204684
>That's the EU, not the US. The only Western European country following the US around is UK, and even they didn't go into Vietnam. Do I need to remind you what the French and Germans said about the Iraq war? Palme in the '70s compared the US to the nazis and sent aid to North Vietnam.

I suspect you are misleading people intentionally. You are ignoring billions of dollars in aid to European counties, mutual aid agreements and pre-emptive joint-declaration agreements. The whole of the EU stands with the US right now. Nations once again are scrambling to ensure UN/NATO protections now that conflict is on the horizon.

>>21204707
To not mention deploying nuclear weapons in EU countries soil, under direct control of American forces.

>>21204689
God why the fuck do they let the American govt do that?

>>21204715
Because they lost wars and got occupied, becoming puppet regimes.

The distinction between the American government and European governments is just a formality.

>>21204700
>I can name every single national army that exist to protect the countries from the constant invasions by the US. There's great morality in soldiers who stand against invaders who want to destroy their ways of living.
That's a weak argument. Just because you have the right of self defence doesn't make you a good person. Iraq had the right to defend themselves against the US, but that didn't make them good people, it was still made up or the same people who perpetrated a genoide in the '80s (with US support.

>>21204703
Which of these wars did Germany join in on and to which degree?
> Syria
> Libya
>Iraq (twice)
>Afghanistan
>Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos
>Panama
>Nicaragua
>Somalia
>Indonesia
>East Timor
>All the various Gaza excursions

I'm genuinely curious which of these Germany significantly participated in, because the US is constantly butthurt about EU countries "not paying their fair share in NATO", and the whole Freedom Fries shit.

>>21204715
Because Americans have occupation garrisons that will take over if they try to get rid of Americans.

>>21204715
Because it frees up funding for other things. Making the government look good in the eyes of the voters since they are able to commit more resources to healthcare, as an example.

>>21204729
>That's a weak argument. Just because you have the right of self defence doesn't make you a good person. Iraq had the right to defend themselves against the US, but that didn't make them good people, it was still made up or the same people who perpetrated a genoide in the '80s (with US support.
I don't think there's anything that will make anyone not sharing your very narrow set of beliefs to be seen as good in your eyes.

Liberals are truly the ultimate "us good, them bad" type of people.

>>21204729
Why do liberal pacifists have to lie so much? I just googled one of these "wars German didn't take part", the Afghan war, and surprise, German took part.

>>21204707
>You are ignoring billions of dollars in aid to European counties
Unless you count Israel as a European country, this didn't happen before Ukraine, and since is still relegated to Ukraine.

EU does stand against Russia, but that's because everyone hates Russia, even other slavs.

>>21204746
>EU does stand against Russia
It also stood against Syria, Lybia, Somalia, Afghanistan, ... sending billions in support.

To be fair, the US and EU stands against most mankind by default, bunch of hostile fucks.

>>21204736
>I don't think there's anything that will make anyone not sharing your very narrow set of beliefs to be seen as good in your eyes.
One of the things you can do is to not enact genocides, that's a first thing.

If you geniunely can't tell the difference between the right of self defence and being a moral person I don't even understand why you're having a conversation about morality.

>>21204743
I didn't say the didn't, mongoloid. Now do a google search for the other conflicts and see if they follow the US into every conflict. If there's a single one they didn't, you're the liar, so you probably won't because you know I'm right.

>>21204758
Anon, every war is fought in self-defense, for the most noble goals possible. At least in the mind of many of those fighting it.

Both ANA and the Taliban fought to protect themselves, their ways and their people from the other, kek.

>>21204733
>Making the government look good in the eyes of the voters since they are able to commit more resources to healthcare, as an example.
Yeah, except that's not happening

>>21204758
>Now do a google search for the other conflicts and see if they follow the US into every conflict.
They follow the US is most conflicts and sent support in those they don't took part.

I call you a liar because you lied, saying German doesn't take part in American wars.

>>21204749
Lybia was the French and English, the rest stayed out. Europe has not been involved in spurring on fights in Somalia, so that's flat out not true. Afghanistan I can give you, Syria was a minimal involvement. This is still a fraction of the US wars so the argument is still invalid.

>>21204764
It was for several decades.

>>21204746
Israel, Ukraine and Russia have one specific demographic in the ruling class.

>>21204762
Right, and that's why you can use your brain and think about who had the more legitimate claim, rather than just say "he said it was in self defence, therefor it was". You seem to keep forgetting you have the pro war stance here, but you seem to want to do the opposite and actually reject violent conflict. So you agree with me, great!

>>21204766
>Lybia was the French and English, the rest stayed out.
Many EU minors too part in Lybia,

>Europe has not been involved in spurring on fights in Somalia, so that's flat out not true.
European nations have taken part in the Somalian civil war more than once.

>Syria was a minimal involvement.
Billions of weapons and support to Jihads to drag a war for decades is not minimal... it's the reason why the war was not over in half a year.

>This is still a fraction of the US wars so the argument is still invalid.
It's not a small fraction, it's closer to 3 / 5.

>>21204771
>Who is more right about this war?
In their eyes, both the ANA and the Taliban were righteous.

That's why liberals like you, who see the world as black and white, cannot understand certain things about warfare.

>>21204765
That's not true though, I gave you an option to prove it and you fucked it up. Where was Germany in Vietnam? Where was Germany in Iraq? Where was Germany in all the fuckery in South America?

Oh but since they had a few soldiers in Afghanistan, that means it's literally impossible to any country to not fight wars all the time, is this seriously the argument you're making?

>>21204768
>Israel, Ukraine and Russia have one specific demographic in the ruling class
What's that got to do with what I said?

>>21204794
>Ok, German didn't fought every American war, so this proves Germany didn't fought most American wars.
Again, I'm saying Germany fought most American wars, not all of them.

>>21204768
>Israel, Ukraine and Russia have one specific demographic in the ruling class.
Yes indeed, people with a lot of money who know a lot of people with a lot of money. You think that means "Jews" because they are over-represented in positions of power but that's because you're retarded.

>>21204781
Since both of them are righteous in their own eyes, should they just kill each other forever or try to come to another solution?

>>21204775
>Somali victory/ US-allied defeat BASED. God imagine how beautiful it must feel to just be some ignorant tribesman fighting off soulless invaders from countries you have never heard of, full of people who have no love for life, and you actually manage to do it

>>21204804
>should they just kill each other forever or try to come to another solution?
Should people age and die? That's how things are, calling it "immoral" is schizophrenic.

>>21204806
Amazing what morale alone can do.

>>21204768
>It was for several decades.
I checked one random financial report for my country (EU founder) - it just so happend that it is pre 9/11, pre € currency

Defense department: 24.811.245
Health department: 526.254

>>21204813
Also, do you know US government healthcare programs (medicare, medicaid, tricare) cost more (both as percentage of GDP and absolute) than the NHS?

>>21204818
I've heard stuff like this and it doesn't surprise me
But I don't really see how that's relevant

>>21204826
It's not relevant, it's a curiosity about how the US public healthcare is the most expensive in the world by both metrics.

>>21204828
I remember reading shit like that 100xed the cost of some live-saving medication in a day
This while in Canada it costed like 3$
I don't remember anything more precise and I don't care enough looking for the actual thing

>>21204828
And yet the most reluctant and able to provide care.

>>21204839
I agree that healthcare in the US is often ridiculously overpriced, but if you're in somewhere like Canada or UK, don't you have to wait for a really long time sometime to get a certain medication or treatment because of the waitlist or something? Sure it's free but that doesn't mean it's readily available. And then I've heard these places still don't cover certain treatments on their nationalized plans, so you'll have to go to another country or still have to pay out the ass for them. Not trying to derail a good thread about the reasons for fighting war, but I still wanted to add this.

>>21191368
Junger was a legitimate psychopath with those warrior genes . Remarque was a normal guy. That explains the difference. The majority of those pushed through the meat grinder would share Remarque's opinion.

>>21204849
>Sure it's free but that doesn't mean it's readily available.
Waiting time in both Canada and the UK are lower than in the US.

>>21204850
Remarque was an intellectual who made a living by writing "war is hell". Junger was a normal guy.

>>21204849
>>21204853
Pardon me, access to healthcare in the UK is faster than in the US, but Canada is slower, my mistake.

>>21204853
Are they measuring "Timeliness of care" for the US's nationalized healthcare systems (sorry I don't know the correct terminology) vs. the UK and Canada's nationalized healthcare systems? Because if they are, I would like to see how they compare to some of the privatized healthcare systems in the US (if you have the money to pay for them of course). I want a more nationalized, humane healthcare system in the US, but I'm also not blind to the obvious drawbacks.

>>21204878
>Are they measuring "Timeliness of care" for the US's nationalized healthcare systems
No, as the US lacks a public healthcare system, the timeliness of care in private services was measured.

Despite all the slogans, healthcare waiting times in the US is similar with public healthcare waiting times in 1st world.

The great advantage of the US system is the money health insurance companies make.

>>21204884
>the timeliness of care in private services was measured
Source? I don't see that they're comparing private services anywhere in that graphic, my man

>>21204878
>>21204884
To be precise, timeliness is measured as "how many people have avoided to use healthcare due to waiting times".

And surprising, more people in the US have given up or avoided because it was taking too much time, than in the UK.

>>21204858
>Remarque was an intellectual who made a living by writing "war is hell". Junger was a normal guy.
You mean to tell me WWI wasn't horrific? You're out of touch man.
>Junger was a normal guy
Nobody who luxuriates in war after actually experiencing it is a normal guy. Typically it's "dulce bellum inexpertīs"-- war is sweet to those who have never experienced it

>>21204891
>I don't like this, so it's fake.
Source to the survey are provided in the image, and you can check it, no need to pretend they are not there.

>>21204897
>You mean to tell me WWI wasn't horrific?
I mean to say most WW1 memories are closer to Junger than Remarque, and the few that resembles Remarque are made by intellectuals who made a living by writting.

It's not that WW1 as not bad, but some people like Remarque took an artistic license to write it in a way that draw more attention.

>>21191368
>WW1 as a honorable fantastic adventure and views wars as a character building expereince where boys become men
Oh wow that totally justifies 2+ million German youth dying for no gain at all. Thanks Junger, I can't wait to ruin my country in another destructive typhoon which irreparably fucks us forever just to appeal to "character building"

>>21204897
>Nobody who luxuriates in war after actually experiencing it is a normal guy.
Ehhh, I know you want to think this is true, but most people who have fought in wars are willing to fight again. Both before and after the great war.

Don't confuse the common Joe with the typical liberal academic.

>>21191627
I think Junger is a basketcase, but that's exactly why I think he's also legit about his feelings. Every now and then you really do get one of those odd fellows whose purpose in life is fighting.
Patton is another one. This breed of man cannot cope with peace, it's not their world, their brains are simply "built different"

>>21204901
Lol I'm not pretending anything my man, I just don't see anything saying that they're comparing public vs. private in the graphic. Also I'm not doing that much work, I want it to say so on the graph so I don't have to bother my zoomer brain to type some things into google and look through more data and shit.

>>21204909
>I mean to say most WW1 memories are closer to Junger than Remarque
Tell that to these guys. The memory of WW1 was heavily distorted by propaganda and censorship as well because people were so mad about it there were revolutions and uprisings over it. Two countries governments, Russia and Germany, were overthrown.
>It's not that WW1 as not bad, but some people like Remarque took an artistic license to write it in a way that draw more attention.
He has that right. He lived through it. However he chooses to perceive it is valid. This applies also o Junger as that's how he experienced it. But for hundreds of thousands the experience of the war was running into a machine gun bullet.

>>21204915
>Ehhh, I know you want to think this is true, but most people who have fought in wars are willing to fight again
Well it's their profession. Their drive to be a soldier outweighs the trauma it inflicts.

>>21204934
Anon, check the bottom of the image for "International Health Policy Survey Primary Care Physicians 2013" and "World Health Organization and Organization for Cooperation and Development, OECD Health Data 2013 (Paris: OECD, Nov 2013)".

Both these surveys make it very clear the "Timeliness of Care" measured in the US comes from private services :)

>>21204942
>The memory of WW1 was heavily distorted by propaganda and censorship as well because people were so mad about it there were revolutions and uprisings over it.
Or maybe people who don't get paid to paint the war with darker colors tend to agree more with Jurgen than with the guy who made a fortune by writing "war is hell".

>He has that right. He lived through it.
Yeah, the guy writing for money is right, while many others writing for the sake of writing are lying/censored/psychopath. Kek.

I know you want Remarque to be right, but his work is pretty much fantasy meant to sell more. Try reading what others wrote, common people who didn't made a life from writing this sort of thing, and you'll see they mostly agree with Jurgen.

>>21204949
>Anon, check the bottom of the image for "International Health Policy Survey Primary Care Physicians 2013" and "World Health Organization and Organization for Cooperation and Development, OECD Health Data 2013 (Paris: OECD, Nov 2013)".

Well boohoohoo I don't wanna do that. Anyway look man don't worry about it, I said somewhere above that I believe the US's system is fucked up and we need a nationalized healthcare system, so at the end of the day, I am on your side, but I'm an American so I'm just kind of terminally dumb and proud of it.

>>21204942
>Well it's their profession. Their drive to be a soldier outweighs the trauma it inflicts.
I'm sorry, but most people who fought wanting to fight again also apply to most conscripts and enlisted soldiers.

Instead of trying to twist reality to fit your worldview and pretend most people are like Remarque, accept most people who fought in war are close to Jurgen.

>>21204975
Sources are provided in the bottom, if you want to check them, go ahead. It's a great custom.

>>21193585
>. Unironically, why am I supposed to care if the 193rd most corrupt country and the 170th are at war?
Fair point, I do think the media white washes the corruption of Ukraine. Ukraine was corrupt as fuck and before the war powerful people had lots of connections to Russian oligarchs.
And Zelenzky I want to say the panama papers also revealed that he had millions of dollars held in offshore islands to escape taxes, so the situation is definitely more morally grey than the media depicts.
There's definitely a lot of propaganda in the air coming from multiple directions.
I think though there are still reasons states care about the war. For other European countries they don't like the prospect of Russia suddenly being close to their doorstep & the fear that they will invade them.
For the U.S gov by contrast it's a win win to support Ukraine with weapons as it bleeds dry a geopolitical rival.
But for the avg U.S person, I don't really think it makes much of a tangible difference who controls the country.

>>21191382
Thhe British Army had a chronic problem with going through horses like crazy.

>>21203929
This. Fuck all you war is awesome retards. Your propaganda nonsense isn't working.

>>21206196
Why don't you fight in a war?

>>21191368
This is retarded .Junger did not "glorify" war and Junger was completely against the NSDAP who wanted to escalate into further war. Remarque got terribly wounded during WW1, and by consequence, was disillusioned.
War is only glorified by the people who never fought it.

>>21192010
Peter Kemp was exceptionally talented though. Worked his way up to being an officer in an army that didn’t want to take foreigners.

>>21198757
learn a language of some fucked country and then go there

>>21196292
Different anon.
Except that "hardass special forces operators" are exactly the ones in the military who have the lowest rates of PTSD. The majority of PTSD patients in the US are from the Vietnam war. There are a lot of other factors that influence if you will suffer from PTSD after a traumatic experience, one of those is intelligence, the more intelligent you are the less likely you are going to suffer from PTSD, and considering that a notable chunk of troops in Vietnam were in fact, actual tards [see: McNamara's Morons] did have an impact for why it is this way, plus, modern conflict requires less ground infantry input which is also very definitely a contributor.

In Israel, it was found that special forces members were LESS likely to suffer from PTSD in contrast to their behind the lines troops.

We are speaking of conflict generally, even ancient warfare and pre-historic warfare are conflicts in their own right.

>>21208185
>ethnicity with higher prevalence of psychopathy and schizophrenia growing up in a fascist militaristic distopia is actually less likely to have regrets about killing underage civilians
WHOA... who could have imagined...
kys

>is the better book but no one remembers it because it does not have a cool sounding name

>>21204850
>Junger was a legitimate psychopath
Not the first time I've seen this pussy ass statement on this board. You think only ASPD chimps are capable of violence? You are sheltered and naive as all hell.
>>21204942
nvm you're a leftist